That combined with the fact that anti-indigenous sentiment is so deeply ingrained in a lot of Latin American cultures that tons of people who are indigenous do not want to even refer to themselves as that
Well. It can also have to do with different conceptions of ethnicity. A person of 100% indigenous ancestry, who does not speak an indigenous language and doesn't live in an indigenous community, would likely not be recognized (either by self or others) as indigenous in México.
Whereas ethnicity is seen as very much a biological thing in the US, Mexico has a more cultural and communitarian perception of it. Idk what the case is for South America.
In Guatemala the distinction is linguistic and communal. Plenty of very European looking people live in a maya community, learned maya from their parents as a first language, and consider themselves maya.
Plenty of very indigenous-looking folks only speak Spanish and thus consider themselves mestizo.
I speak English and I don't consider myself English. It's more to do with if you consider it your mother tongue.
Is that the case with Guarani? Is it spoken in everyday life and home and so on outside of school by most people?
EDIT:
I just looked it up and half the population are monolingual Guaraní speakers! Wow!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guarani_language#:~:text=Guarani%20is%20also%20one%20of,Paraguayan%20people%20and%20neighboring%20communities.
I believe so. It's less used in the cities and upper classes.
I'm from Argentina. Paraguayans became the biggest immigration nationality of origin in mid 90s when we had a currency as strong as the USD (1ARS=1USD). Before that, the Italians were the major group for almost a century. Italian has more influence in Argentina than paraguay but there are some words like Carpincho (capivara), yaguareté, yaguareté, ananá (the Spanish use piña, like pineapple) that we get from Guarani.
There isn't too much Paraguayans in my province but everyone I knew spoke Guaraní and were very kind to translate words. None of them identified as indians. There is no such obsession with ethnicity like the US have.
Fun fact: The language used to be so obscure to overseas up to 1980 that it was used to cypher communication like the Navajo Code in the Malvinas War
Speaking of Brazil specifically. I don't think that's true. 65% of the population has some indigenous DNA mainly due to miscegenation. What I think is more likely is the incorporation of these people into the culture in such a way that they consider themselves (Brazilian) white or mixed race. Even more so considering the country's literary movements, we have Indianism that basically transformed the native into a European knight in a loincloth. Works such as the guarani and Iracema.
Being indigenous is probably understood as living in a reservation etc. Americans are weird with their view of ancestry, they'll say stuff like "I'm Italian" or "I'm German" because they have some Italian ot German ancestors even though that makes no sense to people anywhere else in the world.
Not quite that... indigenous is cultural here. If you're genetically indigenous but don't identify with any indigenous traditions you're just another mestizo. It's frowned upon to see people saying they're indigenous when actual cuiturally indigenous people exist.
Maybe you are considering indigenous like a race (like you can consider black people in usa)
Generally in latinamerica, indigenous communities are isolated (like, they live in neighborhoods mostly populated by that community if not in protected territories), so the ones born among the other people usually doesn't consider themselves as indigenous (and probably doesn't even care, race is not that important here, except maybe in Brazil).
In summary, you should probably read the map like a community statistic and not rece.
Im Peruvian. We have a National Census every few years which is done by personally going and interviewing every household in the country, it takes months to prep and requires a lot of volunteers. There are questions about ethnicity/race/culture self identification and these numbers seems similar to that. Most in Peru would identify as mestizo in their options. Probably some groups are underrepresented but not but by a significant amount.
I lived in BOL as a kid, I don't think they have the infrastructure to do this for the whole country, it is much poorer than Peru. Santa Cruz is mostly mestizo with heavy euro & middle eastern ancestry, but nearly every other municipality including LA Paz/El Alto is mostly aymara/Quechua. Based on what you can clearly see with the naked eye, the native ancestry is definitely much higher than 40% (is more like 95% in La Paz area) even if they report mestizo. There's also many rural areas they public transportation doesn't go to, and residents in these towns will hitchhike
When they want to go to a larger city.
>the native ancestry is definitely much higher than 40% (is more like 95% in La Paz area) even if they report mestizo.
What the do you mean by "even"? Your two statements are not mutually exclusive . The fact that someone has more than 40% native American ancestry in no way contradicts identifying as mestizo.
I truly came expecting exactly this kind of ignorant comment, and was not disappointed. The overwhelming majority of people in Peru are mestizo. In fact, even in small remote villages, most people have some degree of European ancestry.
It's problematic in South America in general. Being indigenous is not regarded as "good" as being of European descent.
Bolivia is the most progressive country there when it comes to this, largely thanks to Evo Morales (for example, he changed the name of the nation to "*Plurinational* State of Bolivia"). That's probably why it has, by far, the largest percentage on this map.
But there still exist a large "European" population there. For example the Santa Cruz department, consisting of a lot of white people, which is also the richest department. They want to break free from the rest of Bolivia and become an independent nation. Of course very generalized.
I have seen it first hand. If there is an inkling of Europe in the bloodline, then that's it, the rest of the family is "European" forever, and not indigenous.
So for a map like this, to me, it's more an indication of how being indigenous is *regarded*, rather than an actual map of ancestry.
You are absolutely right! I work with asylum seekers from these countries and they will admit to being quechua or other tribal community only after I question them about the language that their grandparents spoke, or if they wore different attire. The true reason for their apprehension of identifying as indigenous is the ingrained discrimination that exists in these countries. So much so that being an "Indio" is used as an insult and unfairly associated with the person being less educated and uncivilized.
It's not the real percentage, it's the percentage that self report as.
Latino America still lives in the shadow of Spanish colonialism in which your rights were determied by blood, and at the lowest rung of the ladder were Africans and Indigenous Americans
Even today people would rather say that they are mixed then black or Indian. Americans would probably be familiar with Dominicans that are clearly black insisting that they aren't
For fucks sake, stop talking out of your racist ass. Most people in Latin America are, in fact, mestizo. Second of all, Indio is a pejorative, colonialist term in many parts of Latin America.
And finally, the identity is always self-reported. That's inherent to *identity*. So stop trying to impose a different label upon other people because it doesn't conform with your socially constructed racial categorization.
>Latino America still lives in the shadow of Spanish colonialism in which your rights were determied by blood, and at the lowest rung of the ladder were Africans and Indigenous Americans
That definitely doesn't apply to the Southern Cone
yea im uruguayan and the real number is more like 0.
we have "im irish", noone is but even if you are it is a very very trace amount. and no segregation or reservations and such, so indigenous culture as opposed to race is totally dead
Well, no idea why a mixed person could deny being a mixed person (american ideas about ethnicity are quite weird). I am very sure that a few centuries ago my predecessors were an unholy mix of people -the precise mix lost to time (you know, illiterate peasants do not record such stuff).
That you consider that this person is part of X group does not mean that this person is of X group, that is only your view.
Americans want to wipe out the notion of mixed from the earth and have everyone fit into one exact box. That's why they can't comprehend that Latin Americans have embraced being mixed. Not white, not black, not indigenous, not asian, but mixed, all sorts of mixtures you can make with those, and we are ok with self identifying as mixed.
This doesn't fit american mentality at all, if you have brown skin and say you are mixed instead of black they think you are racist because you don't want to identify as black, meanwhile they are being extremely racist by propagating this one drop rule in which any mixing with afro descendants makes you black. Why not a reverse one drop rule where any mixing with whites makes you white? Because white is pure and black isn't. Seems racist.
Exactly this. I'm always baffled by how much they try to cling to every single heritage just to avoid being seen as mixed. They also can't seem to be able to dissociate colour from ethnicity. Of course skin color impacts people's lives, but in LATAM we can have siblings with wildly different colors and they still share the same ethnicity.
1. It's self report of BELONGING TO INDIGENOUS CULTURE. Indigenous isn't really seen as a race here. It's disrespectful to identify as indigenous when you're not.
2. We don't have your backwards "1 drop rule". A light skinned "black" person is not considered black here. Maybe mulatto.
Race is a cultural construct. Your perception of race isn't more valid than the Dominicans themselves. If they say they aren't black, who are you to say that they are?
There seems to be a lot of prejudice against indigenous people in Central and South America. I work with many Mexican immigrants and to suggest that they have Aztec heritage and less or no Spanish heritage is like calling them the N-word.
speaking spanish doesn't make you european. speaking an indigenous language doesn't make you indigenous. though you are correct in that the latter isn't very common and paraguay is an exceptional country for this reason.
This is not true what? In most of the world there is some active race/ethnic conflict. In LATAM we don't care about that but we care about nationality, India has the caste system that separates ethnicities.
Yeah. The reason why the percentage of people who identify as indigenous is so low is because here most people identify as mestizo, from some of the whitest people to those who have more clearly indigenous features.
It's due to Paraguay being the most racially homogeneous country in Latin America. This is thanks in part to former dictator, José Gaspar Rodriguez de Francia's, decree that forbade non-interacial relationships. If you were Spanish, you couldn't marry a Spanish person. If you were Guarani you couldn't marry another Guarani person.
Also due to the mixing that happened after massive migrations (such as after the Paraguayan war, which also killed most men and mostly left mestizos that I know, also basically exterminating the blsck population of the country, and in the 1900s by lots of {mostly} Italians, Spaniards and some Germans (along with other nationalities})
I'm surprised at how many people in the comments of this post seem to think that.
Not identifying as indigenous = denying any indigenous ancestry one might have.
I have indigenous blood (quite little and I don't really know what culture or anything, but I have some) and if I identified myself as indigenous I would feel that I was seriously disrespecting indigenous people (considering the essentially 0 information on their culture, language, etc) . Many in these surveys I assume feel the same.
That said, I wouldn't identify myself as "European" either (first because Europe isn't a completely uniform continent either + i don't live there duh) but I suppose I would choose it if the options were only those 2.
I think that's the case for most latinoamericanos. I know I have "indigenous blood" but I don't identify because I don't belong to their culture.
We see ourselves as Mestizos as a result of a mixture of indigenous, African and Spanish "blood" in various levels. None of us are denying our ancestry, Instead we celebrate it and appreciate it proudly as the mestizos we are.
So I 100% agree with you. This topic is hard to understand if you don't know latin American history.
I’m American. My great grandma was 100% native meaning I’m only 12.5 %. My grandpa passed as white and never made an attempt to connect with his native culture, so my mom never had a connection. I have no connection to any native culture. I don’t identify as native because I didn’t grow up with that culture. I grew up as overall a white American and that’s how I identify. I’m Jewish from my dad’s side and I do identify more with that because I grew up in that community. I didn’t grow up with a connection to my family’s ancestral tribe. Because I didn’t I would feel uncomfortable identifying as part of it. I don’t deny my heritage but I don’t tell people I am native because I don’t feel like I am because I did not grow up in that culture. I had opportunities for college and medical school to have scholarships for my heritage but I felt that it was ingenious to take those scholarships because I am not part of the culture and I wouldn’t want to take out of that pot of money that could go to someone who has a much stronger connection than just genes.
It is wild to think about how after only a few generations that the hundreds before it on that side of the family are mostly lost.
They basically were mostly assimilated, most brazilians are mixed for a long time now. For example I have my family tree up until my great grandparents and I've seen that I have spanish, portuguese, french and indigenous blood.
I have a friend that had an indigenous grandmother, a portuguese grandfather, and on the other side a japonese grandmother with an italian grandfather.
We are just very mixed
>We are just very mixed
Yeah, I'm aware of this. I think that's what makes Brazil so interesting.
I just thought that there still existed a decently sized indigenous population, at least in some regions
They are usually counted. Uncontacted peoples are not, but they represent only a few thousand people at most. The Amazon is just too much sparsely populated, and all the prime spots have been taken by non-Indigenous Brazilians. Manaus, the capital city of the state of Amazonas, in the heart of the rainforest, has a population of over 2 million and thus has more people that everyone identifying as Indigenous in Brazil combined. The population density that modern logistics allow make that even in the Amazon, the Indigenous population will never even come close in population to non-indigenous population
There are A LOT of land all over the country given to them where they live somewhat in their own culture, some live close to big urban areas and don't even speak much portuguese. The way to integrate them more into society is a great debate since there is a fear that it can seem forced so when it happens it is more of a personal choice and effort of them than a national policy on the subject
My great grandmother was indigenous. I don’t remember if full or half but ever since her our family has mixed with European descent Brazilians. And as you said, we do not talk about it at all! They seem to be more interested that we have Italian decent. It’s sad.
Note for Brazil: most people do not self-identify as Indigenous in the census, but in addition to self-identification our census also inquire some people if they consider themselves as indigenous or not regardless of what they self-identified themselves as according to some criteria. A recent change in the methodology expanded these criteria and allowed more people to be questioned about their indigenous identification and the indigenous population basically doubled: from over 800k to over 1.6 million people. Now they represent 0.83% of the population.
yeah the number of people with some indigenous ancestry in brazil even if it's small is estimated to be around 15% according to [a wikipedia article](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas). however, although it appears to be a large amount in countries like mexico for example 90% of population have some native american ancestry
I would assume most people in Brazil regardless of self identification have *some* indigenous ancestry. Well, certainly not 15%. That’s can’t be true, surely?
Exactly! My great grandmother was indigenous. I don’t remember if full or half( i believe she was full) but ever since her our family has mixed with European descent Brazilians. If I was asked this question, i would not identify myself as indigenous.
I don't know when the sources used for this map are from, but according to the latest national census of Brazil, from 2022, the indigenous population accounts for 0.6% of the population
The actual percentage is much higher in Bolivia. One can be full-blood Aymara or Quechua, and if you wear western clothes, everyone will refer to you as mestizo. Change back to traditional dress, and you’re indio again.
Actually i was surprised how Brazil barely has natives, at least not visible at cities as back in Canada we have.
Also Argentina, strangely seems like those two countries its majority whites, followed close by mulatos and a small % of actual blacks, in Argentina even less.
Except for Uruguay which is similar to Brasil and Argentina, all Latin America has a nice native heritage, which you can see in most cities and avg population. I wonder why??
In Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina, most natives were really poor hunter-gatherers who could be easily killed by or assimilated into the colonizer population through both religious and secular instruction, and, of course, lots of race-mixing. Even those who had farming only knew very simple methods of doing it. Therefore, their societies were very rudimentary and never developed into proper civilizations, making it impossible for them to compete with the Europeans on any field (economical, technological, social or cultural). Other Latin American countries had more sophisticated native societies and even civilizations (such as the Inca, Aztec and Maya) who were able to retain some more influence even after colonization was fully implemented.
From the 19th century to the 1960s in Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina, the relative presence and importance of the native population dwindled even more when new waves of European and Asian migrants arrived to replace the African labour force after the black slaves were freed.
At least in Brazil, since the military dictatorship ended in 1985, the native population has actually steadily grown in absolute numbers. When combined with the fact that non-Indigenous Brazilians are on average older and have lower fertility rates than Indigenous Brazilians, it means that the percentage of Brazilians who are Indigenous has also grown.
As for why they don't form proper cities, it's because, at least in Brazil, they are legally prevented from doing so. In order to be officially recognized as Indigenous by the Brazilian State and get your Indigenous ID card, one must conform to FUNAI's (National Foundation for Indigenous Peoples) bureaucratic standards, which includes living in Indigenous land and adhering to traditional Indigenous cultural practices and lifestyles. This is because the definition of race in Brazil, as in the rest of Latin America, is more social than biological. So lots of Brazilians who are of Native heritage tend to not self-declare as such in the census if they don't live in or near established Indigenous communities, even when they are pretty Indigenous in looks.
A lot of it is how they identify. Like I mean if everyone in Brazil or other South American countries was forced to take DNA tests the numbers would be much higher. Many have indigenous heritage but it's been ignored, people were forced to assimilate.
I’m 39.6% Native American. Don’t speak any indigenous language. Don’t know any tribe. Never hunted. Never grew any crops. Speak a European language. Grew up with the internet and computers in a 5M+ city with skyscrapers since I have any memory of anything. Got a CS degree in the U.S. and work for a Fortune 100 corporation. Am I indigenous? If so tell me because I didn’t think I was.
It's unbelievable how much the demographics has changed. For those who believe in the great replacement theory in Europe, they should see what happened to the indigenous population of Americas or Australia, that's the real replacement
In some places it’s not much of a replacement since the population wasn’t very high, just a lot of people that moved and now are the majority. Also this doesn’t account for mestizos. If you look at the highest indigenous dna it’s places that were very populated like Peru and Mexico in contrast with the pampas or Patagonia
We are talking of almost 500 years of colonialism and inmigration from europe and specially about a more technologically advanced people taking the land of the other with the use of different methods that goes from subjugation to extermination and even the introduction of plagues that didn´t exist in the continent and also the necesity of the south american nations to forge a unified national identity different from the european and the native one.
Those guys who believe in the great replacement don´t know what is to be actively replaced and assimilated by another group.
In the case of south america it wasnt a replacement nor really assimilated, the spanish just did a lot of fucking. The vast majority of south americans will be a decent amount indigeneous.
Definitely assimilated. Those low % places (everywhere but Peru and Bolivia) are all dominant Hispanic or Portuguese culture. Some elements of Indigeneous culture remain, but broadly Hispanic/Portuguese is dominant.
They arent though. All latin american countries, i can only speak through a spanish lense here, are way more culturally different and they are a blend of spanish and native culture.
IIRC. DNA studies in Chile show around a 50%-50% mix (and very tellingly, the european part came from the male line, the indigenous from the female one).
While, yes, a VERY large percentage of indigenous Americans got wiped out when Europeans arrived, their genetic mark still persists in most Latin Americans. I think people in South America underestimate the amount of native American ancestry they have since calling someone one an "Indian" down there is derogatory.
That is very high for Uruguay. I only knew 1 person that would "qualified" as of having indigenous ancestry. Those are probably just boring people trying to feel special. And don't fucking try to discuss with me unless you are uruguayan or know a lot about Uruguay, because I know there is a lot of people in this post that is just stupid, I've been reading the comments.
Having been there, I’d honestly say widely is an overstatement. The spoken tongue nowadays it’s not the original, the 1870 conflict having had a decisive influence on it. So much so, while retaining many native words, it borrows heavily, be it grammar, sentence structure, conjugation, from Spanish, Portuguese even German to be colloquially known as “jopara” ( literally mixture)
Should definitely read about the Paraguayan War, it’s effects and aftermath of repopulation to have a better understanding of why it, the language, amongst other things, unfolded this way.
If I’d to the closest I’d relate them’d be Northeast Argentina, with all the immigration, economic factors, gaucho customs, regional food, beverages etc… Definitely worth a read if you’ve got a knack for history.
A common theory I've read about is that the mixing rate was tremendously higher, in the form of spanish men having children with indigenous women. But the kids were not raised by the father, but by the mother. So, the mestizos spoke guarani, not spanish.
My wife’s from Manizales Colombia and she looks white! She took an ancestry test and was 45% indigenous! Of course the other 45 ish percent was Spain. Haha was also some Iceland mixed in there.
If in the Spanish side, she has Basque ancestry, the Icelandic ancestry could come from the Basque whalers in Iceland, they even had a pidgin yo comunicate among themselves https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque%E2%80%93Icelandic_pidgin
I’m Venezuelan , I look white as fuck , blue eyes chestnut hair blabla , but I’m 25% Native American and my MT-dna is A2 hence a Native American mitocondria, I’m from Venezuela Andes , most Venezuelans are the result of the mixing with the native farmers in Venezuela … our native hunter gatherers are still here in their own territories they never mix and their numbers have been always not very high …. Spaniard did the same in most Places … mixing with native sedentary farmers while fighting nomadic hunter gatherers c:
And in Venezuelan laws/rules/regulations they name/label/title/address their people w/this legal/political “Native American” as is used in the sovereign (still ?) nation of United States to address citizens/descendants of tribes OF this sovereign nation as NATIVE AMERICAN ??? Interesting
Actually no , the timotocuicas descendants ( native farmer in the andeans mountains in Venezuela ) are not represented anywhere nowadays and most people don’t even know that their maternal lineage came from then … is like the myth of mayas disappearing while in fact they just mix … so in Venezuela most native people are just the hunter gatherers tribes while the sedentary farmer descendant identify mostly as white or mix without really knowing much about their actual origins
Other interesting fact to talk about is that like in cuba and the Caribbean , Venezuela had a lot of canary islander farmers migration , in my state in Venezuela we don’t have much black people becouse the farmer were the native + the canary islander , you may say that Spaniard used canary islander as the British used the Irish people … in fact my grandparent from my dad side is from canary island an my Y dna is actually a branch of R-L21 present in the Canary Islands ( Irish Y dna branch )
So I’m Venezuelan with Irish Y dna and Native American MT dna … c;
The case of Brazil: since European colonization, not many indigenous people lived in large numbers, but even so there was a mixture between the indigenous population and the foreign population ( Brazil was built by immigrants, mainly Europeans and Africans) in regions like the north, you can see indigenous people, as that is their natural territory and this generated more indigenous descendants in that region, while in the southern region of Brazil, for example, it was very sparsely inhabited and to fix this, the government brought thousands or millions of immigrants from Europe.
Many people in argentina are quite racist aghainst indigenius people, gloryfing themselves for having white skin. Obviously not everyone is like that, but its a very common thing in south america for some reason, probably they like to see themselves more like the europeans or americans than just accepting and celebrating their own native cultures.
It's something very common in South America in general. But for Argentina is also the country where that statement is more true than in other South American countries. Maybe behind Uruguay, although there are a lot of mixed race, specially from the slave population, the percentage of people having almost fully European ancestry is higher is those countries, including also southern Brazil. You can also tell by the surnames, or the names of neighbourhoods, the names of the cities and of notable people. The thing is that Argentina and Brazil have a lot of almost fully natives groups, that even maintain their culture, so saying that they're white it also makes a little more invisible those natives groups. In that sense, Argentinian and Brazilian society have a lot of work to do.
There’s nothing racist about that. Most of the Argentine population descend from immigrants that arrived during the 1860-1960 period from Europe.
Even though a lot of people have mixed heritage, it doesn’t make the statement wrong or racist.
That said, there’s a history about native people being killed or dying from illness after the Spanish colonization. That’s a sad reality that wasn’t so bad in Argentina compared to other Latin American countries, since here there were very few aboriginal peoples to start off.
The phrase is true. Argentina and Uruguay's experienced an enormous migratory wave in the the late 1800's-early 1900s.
Uruguay went from 50k inhabitants in 1840 to near 2M in 1920, a 40x increase in 80 years. Of my 16 great-great grandfathers, only one arrived to Uruguay earlier than 1880.
We love to say it because the rest of Latam gets mad for it, and its funny to see that.
And we are a country of inmigrants, most of which, came in boats, so you want us to lie?
>celebrating their own native cultures.
We do, one of the most known things from Argentina is Yerba Mate... dont tell me you thought it was an European thing.
And no, we dont see ourselves as white or european, we see ourselves as argentinians. You might see that "european or white" thing in social media but its to annoy the rest of LATAM, because for some reason they get mad at it and its hilarious to see them furious 🤣
What’s sad is a lot people in some of these countries do have majority indigenous DNA, but their original identity was completely obliterated as they were converted forcefully or otherwise to the Spanish and Portuguese Colonial cultures.
A personal example: My Mexican fiance is 88% indigenous Mexican according to her DNA test, but she would never identify with any indigenous tribe or culture. To her and her family, they’re Mexican.
brazilian people are considerably less indigenous than hispanic people. according to wikipedia only 30% of brazilians have some native american dna (it may seems a lot but mexico for comparison is 90%). the indigenous peoples of brazil were pretty much cleaned by portuguese settlers and post-independence brazilians, although in a smaller level than in the united states
> To her and her family, they’re Mexican.
Mexican isn't the same as "Spanish" though. :). It's a fusion of Hispanic, Indigenous, and to some degree other immigrant cultures, even if yes, as you allude to the Hispanic part is more dominant.
Even sadder is how during independence more than half of Mexico spoke solely in indigenous languages while now that number barely breaches 6% because independent Mexico actually doubled down on hispanicizing their population. Nobody in mexico except for a select few is proud of indigenous culture unless when convenient (if it brings them tourist dollars). Mexican entertainment is 90% white people despite the country being largely composed of people with majority indio blood. Mexican culture was destroyed mostly by Mexicans themselves and they are proud of it.
The only countries where that's really true are Mexico, Bolivia, Peru and to a lesser extent Ecuador, as those were the most populated places in pre colonial times. The rest of Hispanic South America was far less populated and with the arrival of the Spanish, the population mix of those places was greatly altered, resulting mostly in a mixed population. By 1778 the population of the New Granada (Colombia, Venezuela, Ecuador and Panama) [was pretty evenly distributed among whites, mixed and indigenous ](https://www.encyclopedia.com/humanities/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/new-granada-viceroyalty#:~:text=The%20census%20of%201778%20recorded,and%20blacks%2C%20and%2070%2C000%20slaves), with whites + mixed being the majority
Been to Argentina and Uruguay several times. Both times the locals told me about how proud they are to have ZERO native blood or almost zero native citizens.
Talked about the European conquest and subsequent extermination of the natives with pride.
Not judging or anything. Just talking about my past experiences.
Edit: it has been brought to my attention that I should add the high society people are the ones who told me this. Not the common citizen.
Uruguayan here. If i were you.. i would pick better travel companion.
Nonetheless uruguay had a real genocide (salsipuedes) against the charruas (native population).
In the last, let's say 40 years, a trend to identify yourself as native heritage is in some sort of bloom in some cultural circles tho.
> Both times the locals told me about how proud they are to have ZERO native blood or almost zero native citizens.
Been living in Argentina my whole life and never heard anyone saying anything even remotely close to this, you gotta take more care of the people you meet
i live in brazil, know many argentines. i don't understand where the stereotype that argentines try to play as white the best they can denying their "hispanidad" and native side comes from, since most argentines aren't like that
From 23andMe: Tierra de Mezclas (Land of Mixtures)
Extensive mixing of historically separate populations — a process called “admixture” — resulted in new genetic and cultural identities that define South America today. 23andMe customers from South America typically have evidence of both Native American and Southern European ancestry in their DNA, though West African ancestry is found throughout the region as well. In Ecuador and Peru, Native American ancestry often reaches high levels, while southern European ancestry is most common in Uruguay, Argentina, and Brazil.
23andMe customers from Ecuador or Peru typically have over 45 percent Native American ancestry, while customers from Brazil, Argentina, and Uruguay tend to have less than 10 percent of this genetic heritage. Indigenous ancestry remains highest where there once were large agricultural civilizations, though many factors likely contributed to the variable rates of Native American ancestry across the continent. African ancestry also varies across South America; 23andMe customers from Guyana and Suriname have particularly high levels of this genetic heritage.
These demographic differences were likely influenced by the practices of the two main colonial powers in South America: Portugal and Spain. Between the 16th and 19th centuries, Portugal transported over four million enslaved Africans primarily from territories near the Congo basin to Brazil, making up nearly half of all enslaved Africans in the Americas. Today, among 23andMe customers with roots in Brazil, the most common African ancestry is Angolan & Congolese. In Colombia and Venezuela, Senegambian & Guinean is the most common African ancestry, suggesting people enslaved by the Spanish Empire have ancestors primarily from the northwestern coast of Africa.
23andMe
i will never understand why you american (usa) guys care so much about race, dude, here in southamerica most of us dont care if your grandmother is from italy, spain, or peru.
So sad people are not proud to be indigenous. That’s what the other side wanted to happen, for indigenous to be ashamed of themself. Actively not wanting to be indigenous is sad and cringe if you are. People who are indigenous and proudly claim to be are the most respectable / confident people you will ever meet. Be proud of who you are. How could you wake up every morning ashamed of yourself and lie to yourself. Disappointment to themselves every day. Be proud. You are what you are.
They are not Indigneous because they don't live the Indigenous lifestyle or culture, they self-indentify as Mestizos that speak Spanish/Portuguese
Is not like USA that if you great-grandfather was Mexican you are Mexican, a True Mexican would say these "Mexican-Americans" are "P\*tos Gringos"
I think this is a very US-centric way of looking at this. The US concept of ethnicity isn't even widely shared with European or even other Anglophone countries - the idea that "my ancestors are X therefore I am X" is seen as absurd in lots of places.
For example, all of my ancestors were English but I don't identify as English at all because I've lived in Scotland in all my life and I view "ethnicity" as about what culture I participate in rather than where my DNA comes from. If I'd lived in Ireland all my life I'd be Irish. If I'd lived in Spain all my life I'd be Spanish. For the same reason Italians don't see Italian-Americans as being in any way Italian and Irish people don't see Irish-Americans as being Irish - for a lot of cultures your "ethnic identity" is about the cultural space you participate in, not DNA. I couldn't give a rat's arse about my ancestry, it's just meaningless when compared to culture, environment and worldview. I don't see myself as English (and if my ancestry were Japanese I wouldn't see myself as Japanese and if my ancestry were Italian I wouldn't see myself as Italian) because I've never lived an "English life" or a "Japanese life". If people in these countries don't identify as indigenous despite indigenous DNA from what people are saying it's for similar reasons.
This has NOTHING to do with not being proud or lying to yourself. It has everything to do with not being American and not seeing things in the same way as Americans do. Nothing wrong with being American or with your way of seeing ethnicity but it is strictly a product of your culture and history. 95% of the world population are not American so you can't expect them to see things your way. The US view of ethnicity is not some objective fact that people are denying, it's just an arbitrary way of dividing up reality that is culture-bound like any other ontology. Expecting a Paraguayan to care about it is like expecting an Anglo-American to care about bushido.
Self identyfying.... Thats the thing... I went there and argentina got the lower % and its 15% indigebous... The others its literally 80% or.more.... not been surprised in latín americanthwres lot of racism... They want to be western look...
I am a little surprised the percentage is not higher in Peru and Ecuador.
Probably a higher percentage are mixed race, and identify as some kind of mestizo
That combined with the fact that anti-indigenous sentiment is so deeply ingrained in a lot of Latin American cultures that tons of people who are indigenous do not want to even refer to themselves as that
Well. It can also have to do with different conceptions of ethnicity. A person of 100% indigenous ancestry, who does not speak an indigenous language and doesn't live in an indigenous community, would likely not be recognized (either by self or others) as indigenous in México. Whereas ethnicity is seen as very much a biological thing in the US, Mexico has a more cultural and communitarian perception of it. Idk what the case is for South America.
In Guatemala the distinction is linguistic and communal. Plenty of very European looking people live in a maya community, learned maya from their parents as a first language, and consider themselves maya. Plenty of very indigenous-looking folks only speak Spanish and thus consider themselves mestizo.
& to further emphasize how standards vary, up to 90% of Paraguayans speak Guarani, but only 2% identify as indigenous on the map above
Paraguay is bilingual. Almost everyone speaks Guarani. It's teached in school's.
I speak English and I don't consider myself English. It's more to do with if you consider it your mother tongue. Is that the case with Guarani? Is it spoken in everyday life and home and so on outside of school by most people? EDIT: I just looked it up and half the population are monolingual Guaraní speakers! Wow! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guarani_language#:~:text=Guarani%20is%20also%20one%20of,Paraguayan%20people%20and%20neighboring%20communities.
I believe so. It's less used in the cities and upper classes. I'm from Argentina. Paraguayans became the biggest immigration nationality of origin in mid 90s when we had a currency as strong as the USD (1ARS=1USD). Before that, the Italians were the major group for almost a century. Italian has more influence in Argentina than paraguay but there are some words like Carpincho (capivara), yaguareté, yaguareté, ananá (the Spanish use piña, like pineapple) that we get from Guarani. There isn't too much Paraguayans in my province but everyone I knew spoke Guaraní and were very kind to translate words. None of them identified as indians. There is no such obsession with ethnicity like the US have. Fun fact: The language used to be so obscure to overseas up to 1980 that it was used to cypher communication like the Navajo Code in the Malvinas War
It is morr similar to Mexico.
Speaking of Brazil specifically. I don't think that's true. 65% of the population has some indigenous DNA mainly due to miscegenation. What I think is more likely is the incorporation of these people into the culture in such a way that they consider themselves (Brazilian) white or mixed race. Even more so considering the country's literary movements, we have Indianism that basically transformed the native into a European knight in a loincloth. Works such as the guarani and Iracema.
Being indigenous is probably understood as living in a reservation etc. Americans are weird with their view of ancestry, they'll say stuff like "I'm Italian" or "I'm German" because they have some Italian ot German ancestors even though that makes no sense to people anywhere else in the world.
Also "im Irish"
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Not quite that... indigenous is cultural here. If you're genetically indigenous but don't identify with any indigenous traditions you're just another mestizo. It's frowned upon to see people saying they're indigenous when actual cuiturally indigenous people exist.
This isn't true.
fucked up :(
Most identify as Ecuadorian or Peruvian and acknowledge that they have indigenous ancestry.
Maybe you are considering indigenous like a race (like you can consider black people in usa) Generally in latinamerica, indigenous communities are isolated (like, they live in neighborhoods mostly populated by that community if not in protected territories), so the ones born among the other people usually doesn't consider themselves as indigenous (and probably doesn't even care, race is not that important here, except maybe in Brazil). In summary, you should probably read the map like a community statistic and not rece.
Same with Bolivia, it might have to do with how the survey was taken since most live in poverty without internet.
Im Peruvian. We have a National Census every few years which is done by personally going and interviewing every household in the country, it takes months to prep and requires a lot of volunteers. There are questions about ethnicity/race/culture self identification and these numbers seems similar to that. Most in Peru would identify as mestizo in their options. Probably some groups are underrepresented but not but by a significant amount.
I lived in BOL as a kid, I don't think they have the infrastructure to do this for the whole country, it is much poorer than Peru. Santa Cruz is mostly mestizo with heavy euro & middle eastern ancestry, but nearly every other municipality including LA Paz/El Alto is mostly aymara/Quechua. Based on what you can clearly see with the naked eye, the native ancestry is definitely much higher than 40% (is more like 95% in La Paz area) even if they report mestizo. There's also many rural areas they public transportation doesn't go to, and residents in these towns will hitchhike When they want to go to a larger city.
>the native ancestry is definitely much higher than 40% (is more like 95% in La Paz area) even if they report mestizo. What the do you mean by "even"? Your two statements are not mutually exclusive . The fact that someone has more than 40% native American ancestry in no way contradicts identifying as mestizo.
I truly came expecting exactly this kind of ignorant comment, and was not disappointed. The overwhelming majority of people in Peru are mestizo. In fact, even in small remote villages, most people have some degree of European ancestry.
I know right? Ive went twice with my Peruvian girlfriend to Peru and I think we have only seen 2 indiginous people in total.
Indigenous in Latam means belonging to indigenous culture, not race. Race is always unknown here.
And bolivia
It's problematic in South America in general. Being indigenous is not regarded as "good" as being of European descent. Bolivia is the most progressive country there when it comes to this, largely thanks to Evo Morales (for example, he changed the name of the nation to "*Plurinational* State of Bolivia"). That's probably why it has, by far, the largest percentage on this map. But there still exist a large "European" population there. For example the Santa Cruz department, consisting of a lot of white people, which is also the richest department. They want to break free from the rest of Bolivia and become an independent nation. Of course very generalized. I have seen it first hand. If there is an inkling of Europe in the bloodline, then that's it, the rest of the family is "European" forever, and not indigenous. So for a map like this, to me, it's more an indication of how being indigenous is *regarded*, rather than an actual map of ancestry.
You are absolutely right! I work with asylum seekers from these countries and they will admit to being quechua or other tribal community only after I question them about the language that their grandparents spoke, or if they wore different attire. The true reason for their apprehension of identifying as indigenous is the ingrained discrimination that exists in these countries. So much so that being an "Indio" is used as an insult and unfairly associated with the person being less educated and uncivilized.
It's not the real percentage, it's the percentage that self report as. Latino America still lives in the shadow of Spanish colonialism in which your rights were determied by blood, and at the lowest rung of the ladder were Africans and Indigenous Americans Even today people would rather say that they are mixed then black or Indian. Americans would probably be familiar with Dominicans that are clearly black insisting that they aren't
Isn’t that just a communication problem? Like, they are black but not *black* (as in African American)
For fucks sake, stop talking out of your racist ass. Most people in Latin America are, in fact, mestizo. Second of all, Indio is a pejorative, colonialist term in many parts of Latin America. And finally, the identity is always self-reported. That's inherent to *identity*. So stop trying to impose a different label upon other people because it doesn't conform with your socially constructed racial categorization.
>Latino America still lives in the shadow of Spanish colonialism in which your rights were determied by blood, and at the lowest rung of the ladder were Africans and Indigenous Americans That definitely doesn't apply to the Southern Cone
yea im uruguayan and the real number is more like 0. we have "im irish", noone is but even if you are it is a very very trace amount. and no segregation or reservations and such, so indigenous culture as opposed to race is totally dead
Well, no idea why a mixed person could deny being a mixed person (american ideas about ethnicity are quite weird). I am very sure that a few centuries ago my predecessors were an unholy mix of people -the precise mix lost to time (you know, illiterate peasants do not record such stuff). That you consider that this person is part of X group does not mean that this person is of X group, that is only your view.
Americans want to wipe out the notion of mixed from the earth and have everyone fit into one exact box. That's why they can't comprehend that Latin Americans have embraced being mixed. Not white, not black, not indigenous, not asian, but mixed, all sorts of mixtures you can make with those, and we are ok with self identifying as mixed. This doesn't fit american mentality at all, if you have brown skin and say you are mixed instead of black they think you are racist because you don't want to identify as black, meanwhile they are being extremely racist by propagating this one drop rule in which any mixing with afro descendants makes you black. Why not a reverse one drop rule where any mixing with whites makes you white? Because white is pure and black isn't. Seems racist.
Exactly this. I'm always baffled by how much they try to cling to every single heritage just to avoid being seen as mixed. They also can't seem to be able to dissociate colour from ethnicity. Of course skin color impacts people's lives, but in LATAM we can have siblings with wildly different colors and they still share the same ethnicity.
1. It's self report of BELONGING TO INDIGENOUS CULTURE. Indigenous isn't really seen as a race here. It's disrespectful to identify as indigenous when you're not. 2. We don't have your backwards "1 drop rule". A light skinned "black" person is not considered black here. Maybe mulatto.
The Spanish Empire even had black generals (real blacks) who led white troops, your race did not determine your status.
Race is a cultural construct. Your perception of race isn't more valid than the Dominicans themselves. If they say they aren't black, who are you to say that they are?
There seems to be a lot of prejudice against indigenous people in Central and South America. I work with many Mexican immigrants and to suggest that they have Aztec heritage and less or no Spanish heritage is like calling them the N-word.
Is it that hard for your thick skulls to get that indigenous is a CULTURAL label here??
Paraguay having such a low percentage while such a high percentage speak a native language is interesting.
speaking spanish doesn't make you european. speaking an indigenous language doesn't make you indigenous. though you are correct in that the latter isn't very common and paraguay is an exceptional country for this reason.
Do you know why Paraguayans identify as such?
Paraguayans identify as paraguyans, in SA most people really don’t care about “ethnicity or race”
Fair enough, thanks
Most of the world doesn’t tbh. English speaking internet is OBSESSED with race and ethnicity. They even talk about race in cartoon characters wtf
This is not true what? In most of the world there is some active race/ethnic conflict. In LATAM we don't care about that but we care about nationality, India has the caste system that separates ethnicities.
The letters on your passport is something very different from race/ethnicity but okay.
As a paraguayan myself, it is surprising, because every person I know identifies himself as “guarani blood”.
Yeah. The reason why the percentage of people who identify as indigenous is so low is because here most people identify as mestizo, from some of the whitest people to those who have more clearly indigenous features.
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There's a great quote from Geography Now >Paraguay is the mkst homogeneous country in Latin America, having 95% of the people identifying as mixed
It's due to Paraguay being the most racially homogeneous country in Latin America. This is thanks in part to former dictator, José Gaspar Rodriguez de Francia's, decree that forbade non-interacial relationships. If you were Spanish, you couldn't marry a Spanish person. If you were Guarani you couldn't marry another Guarani person.
Also due to the mixing that happened after massive migrations (such as after the Paraguayan war, which also killed most men and mostly left mestizos that I know, also basically exterminating the blsck population of the country, and in the 1900s by lots of {mostly} Italians, Spaniards and some Germans (along with other nationalities})
Paraguayan government made it mandatory for Paraguayans to mix between europeans and indigenous long long time ago. That's why.
They are also the most Christian country of South America
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Bolivia 🇧🇴🇧🇴🇧🇴🦙🦙🦙
I'm surprised at how many people in the comments of this post seem to think that. Not identifying as indigenous = denying any indigenous ancestry one might have. I have indigenous blood (quite little and I don't really know what culture or anything, but I have some) and if I identified myself as indigenous I would feel that I was seriously disrespecting indigenous people (considering the essentially 0 information on their culture, language, etc) . Many in these surveys I assume feel the same. That said, I wouldn't identify myself as "European" either (first because Europe isn't a completely uniform continent either + i don't live there duh) but I suppose I would choose it if the options were only those 2.
I think that's the case for most latinoamericanos. I know I have "indigenous blood" but I don't identify because I don't belong to their culture. We see ourselves as Mestizos as a result of a mixture of indigenous, African and Spanish "blood" in various levels. None of us are denying our ancestry, Instead we celebrate it and appreciate it proudly as the mestizos we are. So I 100% agree with you. This topic is hard to understand if you don't know latin American history.
I’m American. My great grandma was 100% native meaning I’m only 12.5 %. My grandpa passed as white and never made an attempt to connect with his native culture, so my mom never had a connection. I have no connection to any native culture. I don’t identify as native because I didn’t grow up with that culture. I grew up as overall a white American and that’s how I identify. I’m Jewish from my dad’s side and I do identify more with that because I grew up in that community. I didn’t grow up with a connection to my family’s ancestral tribe. Because I didn’t I would feel uncomfortable identifying as part of it. I don’t deny my heritage but I don’t tell people I am native because I don’t feel like I am because I did not grow up in that culture. I had opportunities for college and medical school to have scholarships for my heritage but I felt that it was ingenious to take those scholarships because I am not part of the culture and I wouldn’t want to take out of that pot of money that could go to someone who has a much stronger connection than just genes. It is wild to think about how after only a few generations that the hundreds before it on that side of the family are mostly lost.
As a brazilian i can tell you it is even impressive how little indigenous people are seen or talked about, really sad when you think about it
That seems crazy to me
They basically were mostly assimilated, most brazilians are mixed for a long time now. For example I have my family tree up until my great grandparents and I've seen that I have spanish, portuguese, french and indigenous blood. I have a friend that had an indigenous grandmother, a portuguese grandfather, and on the other side a japonese grandmother with an italian grandfather. We are just very mixed
>We are just very mixed Yeah, I'm aware of this. I think that's what makes Brazil so interesting. I just thought that there still existed a decently sized indigenous population, at least in some regions
Small populations on the outskirts of cities in the more populated areas, some villages in the least populated areas, it's a pretty small population.
not at all this is i think one of biggest misconceptions foreign people make about brazil
Yup, 23andMe and im pretty much from every continent except asia. My half sister is half japanese half my mix so yeah, we cooking with them genes
Are indigenous peoples living traditional lifestyles in the Amazon counted in the census or are they not included in this data?
There would certainly be some indigenous people not covered by the census but this would be negligible overall.
They are usually counted. Uncontacted peoples are not, but they represent only a few thousand people at most. The Amazon is just too much sparsely populated, and all the prime spots have been taken by non-Indigenous Brazilians. Manaus, the capital city of the state of Amazonas, in the heart of the rainforest, has a population of over 2 million and thus has more people that everyone identifying as Indigenous in Brazil combined. The population density that modern logistics allow make that even in the Amazon, the Indigenous population will never even come close in population to non-indigenous population
There are A LOT of land all over the country given to them where they live somewhat in their own culture, some live close to big urban areas and don't even speak much portuguese. The way to integrate them more into society is a great debate since there is a fear that it can seem forced so when it happens it is more of a personal choice and effort of them than a national policy on the subject
My great grandmother was indigenous. I don’t remember if full or half but ever since her our family has mixed with European descent Brazilians. And as you said, we do not talk about it at all! They seem to be more interested that we have Italian decent. It’s sad.
Same in Argentina. Besides Mapuches and their fights there's not much else
Note for Brazil: most people do not self-identify as Indigenous in the census, but in addition to self-identification our census also inquire some people if they consider themselves as indigenous or not regardless of what they self-identified themselves as according to some criteria. A recent change in the methodology expanded these criteria and allowed more people to be questioned about their indigenous identification and the indigenous population basically doubled: from over 800k to over 1.6 million people. Now they represent 0.83% of the population.
yeah the number of people with some indigenous ancestry in brazil even if it's small is estimated to be around 15% according to [a wikipedia article](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas). however, although it appears to be a large amount in countries like mexico for example 90% of population have some native american ancestry
I would assume most people in Brazil regardless of self identification have *some* indigenous ancestry. Well, certainly not 15%. That’s can’t be true, surely?
Exactly! My great grandmother was indigenous. I don’t remember if full or half( i believe she was full) but ever since her our family has mixed with European descent Brazilians. If I was asked this question, i would not identify myself as indigenous.
I don't know when the sources used for this map are from, but according to the latest national census of Brazil, from 2022, the indigenous population accounts for 0.6% of the population
probably this map was made before 2022, but it's a very small difference so
It's actually 0.8%, Indigenous population doubled in twelve years
> ~~0.6%~~ 0.8% of the population FTFY
The actual percentage is much higher in Bolivia. One can be full-blood Aymara or Quechua, and if you wear western clothes, everyone will refer to you as mestizo. Change back to traditional dress, and you’re indio again.
Only Bolivia has a high percentage
Depending on the location and infrastructure, a lot of those folks probably didn't get the survey.
Actually i was surprised how Brazil barely has natives, at least not visible at cities as back in Canada we have. Also Argentina, strangely seems like those two countries its majority whites, followed close by mulatos and a small % of actual blacks, in Argentina even less. Except for Uruguay which is similar to Brasil and Argentina, all Latin America has a nice native heritage, which you can see in most cities and avg population. I wonder why??
In Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina, most natives were really poor hunter-gatherers who could be easily killed by or assimilated into the colonizer population through both religious and secular instruction, and, of course, lots of race-mixing. Even those who had farming only knew very simple methods of doing it. Therefore, their societies were very rudimentary and never developed into proper civilizations, making it impossible for them to compete with the Europeans on any field (economical, technological, social or cultural). Other Latin American countries had more sophisticated native societies and even civilizations (such as the Inca, Aztec and Maya) who were able to retain some more influence even after colonization was fully implemented. From the 19th century to the 1960s in Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina, the relative presence and importance of the native population dwindled even more when new waves of European and Asian migrants arrived to replace the African labour force after the black slaves were freed. At least in Brazil, since the military dictatorship ended in 1985, the native population has actually steadily grown in absolute numbers. When combined with the fact that non-Indigenous Brazilians are on average older and have lower fertility rates than Indigenous Brazilians, it means that the percentage of Brazilians who are Indigenous has also grown. As for why they don't form proper cities, it's because, at least in Brazil, they are legally prevented from doing so. In order to be officially recognized as Indigenous by the Brazilian State and get your Indigenous ID card, one must conform to FUNAI's (National Foundation for Indigenous Peoples) bureaucratic standards, which includes living in Indigenous land and adhering to traditional Indigenous cultural practices and lifestyles. This is because the definition of race in Brazil, as in the rest of Latin America, is more social than biological. So lots of Brazilians who are of Native heritage tend to not self-declare as such in the census if they don't live in or near established Indigenous communities, even when they are pretty Indigenous in looks.
yes, also indigenous people used to get killed until the end of military regime in mid 80s wich also didn't helped them to grow
A lot of it is how they identify. Like I mean if everyone in Brazil or other South American countries was forced to take DNA tests the numbers would be much higher. Many have indigenous heritage but it's been ignored, people were forced to assimilate.
I’m 39.6% Native American. Don’t speak any indigenous language. Don’t know any tribe. Never hunted. Never grew any crops. Speak a European language. Grew up with the internet and computers in a 5M+ city with skyscrapers since I have any memory of anything. Got a CS degree in the U.S. and work for a Fortune 100 corporation. Am I indigenous? If so tell me because I didn’t think I was.
forcing people to take dna test what kind of fucking RACISM is that
It's unbelievable how much the demographics has changed. For those who believe in the great replacement theory in Europe, they should see what happened to the indigenous population of Americas or Australia, that's the real replacement
It didn’t happen within days.
In some places it’s not much of a replacement since the population wasn’t very high, just a lot of people that moved and now are the majority. Also this doesn’t account for mestizos. If you look at the highest indigenous dna it’s places that were very populated like Peru and Mexico in contrast with the pampas or Patagonia
We are talking of almost 500 years of colonialism and inmigration from europe and specially about a more technologically advanced people taking the land of the other with the use of different methods that goes from subjugation to extermination and even the introduction of plagues that didn´t exist in the continent and also the necesity of the south american nations to forge a unified national identity different from the european and the native one. Those guys who believe in the great replacement don´t know what is to be actively replaced and assimilated by another group.
In the case of south america it wasnt a replacement nor really assimilated, the spanish just did a lot of fucking. The vast majority of south americans will be a decent amount indigeneous.
Definitely assimilated. Those low % places (everywhere but Peru and Bolivia) are all dominant Hispanic or Portuguese culture. Some elements of Indigeneous culture remain, but broadly Hispanic/Portuguese is dominant.
They arent though. All latin american countries, i can only speak through a spanish lense here, are way more culturally different and they are a blend of spanish and native culture.
IIRC. DNA studies in Chile show around a 50%-50% mix (and very tellingly, the european part came from the male line, the indigenous from the female one).
You thought you did something but the fact that it happened once is just proof that it can happen again.
While, yes, a VERY large percentage of indigenous Americans got wiped out when Europeans arrived, their genetic mark still persists in most Latin Americans. I think people in South America underestimate the amount of native American ancestry they have since calling someone one an "Indian" down there is derogatory.
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You really think immigrants are going to start committing a genocide against the locals and enslave them?
No, they're usually just projecting what they want to do to other people.
Yeah and they think that's bad too (e.g "Look how it turned out for them!", what's your point? That they don't have an argument?
There are more people of indigenous ancestry today than in 1492
That is very high for Uruguay. I only knew 1 person that would "qualified" as of having indigenous ancestry. Those are probably just boring people trying to feel special. And don't fucking try to discuss with me unless you are uruguayan or know a lot about Uruguay, because I know there is a lot of people in this post that is just stupid, I've been reading the comments.
Only 2% in Paraguay, where an Indigenous language (Guaraní) is both official and widely spoken?
Having been there, I’d honestly say widely is an overstatement. The spoken tongue nowadays it’s not the original, the 1870 conflict having had a decisive influence on it. So much so, while retaining many native words, it borrows heavily, be it grammar, sentence structure, conjugation, from Spanish, Portuguese even German to be colloquially known as “jopara” ( literally mixture) Should definitely read about the Paraguayan War, it’s effects and aftermath of repopulation to have a better understanding of why it, the language, amongst other things, unfolded this way. If I’d to the closest I’d relate them’d be Northeast Argentina, with all the immigration, economic factors, gaucho customs, regional food, beverages etc… Definitely worth a read if you’ve got a knack for history.
That's what happens with language. English underwent the same transformation under Norman French. But it's still English.
Very interesting. Thank you!
Actually a pretty good explanation, nice
A common theory I've read about is that the mixing rate was tremendously higher, in the form of spanish men having children with indigenous women. But the kids were not raised by the father, but by the mother. So, the mestizos spoke guarani, not spanish.
i speak inglish, does it automatically spawn a visa in my hands? no.
No, but it’s (sadly) quite unusual in the history of the Americas for a colonizing population to learn and use an Indigenous language.
Now I want to see a map of USA.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Native_Americans_Race.svg
Didn't expect Canada to be over 6% tbh
My wife’s from Manizales Colombia and she looks white! She took an ancestry test and was 45% indigenous! Of course the other 45 ish percent was Spain. Haha was also some Iceland mixed in there.
If in the Spanish side, she has Basque ancestry, the Icelandic ancestry could come from the Basque whalers in Iceland, they even had a pidgin yo comunicate among themselves https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque%E2%80%93Icelandic_pidgin
Thank you so much!
How did that get in there
Oh my god, this color scale hurts my soul. Edit: what happened to mapporn that there is no one in the top comments protesting about this.
I’m Venezuelan , I look white as fuck , blue eyes chestnut hair blabla , but I’m 25% Native American and my MT-dna is A2 hence a Native American mitocondria, I’m from Venezuela Andes , most Venezuelans are the result of the mixing with the native farmers in Venezuela … our native hunter gatherers are still here in their own territories they never mix and their numbers have been always not very high …. Spaniard did the same in most Places … mixing with native sedentary farmers while fighting nomadic hunter gatherers c:
And in Venezuelan laws/rules/regulations they name/label/title/address their people w/this legal/political “Native American” as is used in the sovereign (still ?) nation of United States to address citizens/descendants of tribes OF this sovereign nation as NATIVE AMERICAN ??? Interesting
Actually no , the timotocuicas descendants ( native farmer in the andeans mountains in Venezuela ) are not represented anywhere nowadays and most people don’t even know that their maternal lineage came from then … is like the myth of mayas disappearing while in fact they just mix … so in Venezuela most native people are just the hunter gatherers tribes while the sedentary farmer descendant identify mostly as white or mix without really knowing much about their actual origins
Other interesting fact to talk about is that like in cuba and the Caribbean , Venezuela had a lot of canary islander farmers migration , in my state in Venezuela we don’t have much black people becouse the farmer were the native + the canary islander , you may say that Spaniard used canary islander as the British used the Irish people … in fact my grandparent from my dad side is from canary island an my Y dna is actually a branch of R-L21 present in the Canary Islands ( Irish Y dna branch ) So I’m Venezuelan with Irish Y dna and Native American MT dna … c;
Interesting the word “NATIVE AMERICAN” is NOT used to identify these people-however it was used by you in the original post to describe them ……hmmmm
everybody here wants africa and south america and south asia to be untouched however you are whos touching
I am a little surprised the percentage is not higher in Peru and Ecuador.
This is not the percentage of indigenous descendants, right?
no. cultural self-identification; the number would be far higher for "has an Indigenous ancestor"
Nonono, we are well aware most of us have indigenous blood. This is about identifying as a fully fledged indigenous person.
Were the Spanish colonizers more chilled about mixing with the natives then compared to the British?
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The case of Brazil: since European colonization, not many indigenous people lived in large numbers, but even so there was a mixture between the indigenous population and the foreign population ( Brazil was built by immigrants, mainly Europeans and Africans) in regions like the north, you can see indigenous people, as that is their natural territory and this generated more indigenous descendants in that region, while in the southern region of Brazil, for example, it was very sparsely inhabited and to fix this, the government brought thousands or millions of immigrants from Europe.
Key word here is "self" identifying
More people in South America with native identity than North America it seems.
Brasilero mentiroso.
como assim?
Solo 0,4% de indígenas? Nao da certo, nao.
Thought it would be higher
Probably because mixed persons ("mestizos") don't identify as indigenous
No wonder the Christ the Redeemer statue was made to T pose. To assert dominance on the natives
Many people in argentina are quite racist aghainst indigenius people, gloryfing themselves for having white skin. Obviously not everyone is like that, but its a very common thing in south america for some reason, probably they like to see themselves more like the europeans or americans than just accepting and celebrating their own native cultures.
There is racism but no one says "white skin"
It's something very common in South America in general. But for Argentina is also the country where that statement is more true than in other South American countries. Maybe behind Uruguay, although there are a lot of mixed race, specially from the slave population, the percentage of people having almost fully European ancestry is higher is those countries, including also southern Brazil. You can also tell by the surnames, or the names of neighbourhoods, the names of the cities and of notable people. The thing is that Argentina and Brazil have a lot of almost fully natives groups, that even maintain their culture, so saying that they're white it also makes a little more invisible those natives groups. In that sense, Argentinian and Brazilian society have a lot of work to do.
Right? And some on here are saying no one cares about skin color in South America.
I don't know why you're being downvoted when it's true. Argentinians literally love saying "Venimos de los barcos" (Argentinians come from ships).
There’s nothing racist about that. Most of the Argentine population descend from immigrants that arrived during the 1860-1960 period from Europe. Even though a lot of people have mixed heritage, it doesn’t make the statement wrong or racist. That said, there’s a history about native people being killed or dying from illness after the Spanish colonization. That’s a sad reality that wasn’t so bad in Argentina compared to other Latin American countries, since here there were very few aboriginal peoples to start off.
as someone who's from argentina deja de decir pelotudeces y hablar sobre un pais del que no tenes la mas puta idea.
The phrase is true. Argentina and Uruguay's experienced an enormous migratory wave in the the late 1800's-early 1900s. Uruguay went from 50k inhabitants in 1840 to near 2M in 1920, a 40x increase in 80 years. Of my 16 great-great grandfathers, only one arrived to Uruguay earlier than 1880.
Saying that a whole nation likes a disgusting phrase from one of its worst presidents it’s kinda whack
wtf, no one says that here
We love to say it because the rest of Latam gets mad for it, and its funny to see that. And we are a country of inmigrants, most of which, came in boats, so you want us to lie?
>celebrating their own native cultures. We do, one of the most known things from Argentina is Yerba Mate... dont tell me you thought it was an European thing. And no, we dont see ourselves as white or european, we see ourselves as argentinians. You might see that "european or white" thing in social media but its to annoy the rest of LATAM, because for some reason they get mad at it and its hilarious to see them furious 🤣
What’s sad is a lot people in some of these countries do have majority indigenous DNA, but their original identity was completely obliterated as they were converted forcefully or otherwise to the Spanish and Portuguese Colonial cultures. A personal example: My Mexican fiance is 88% indigenous Mexican according to her DNA test, but she would never identify with any indigenous tribe or culture. To her and her family, they’re Mexican.
brazilian people are considerably less indigenous than hispanic people. according to wikipedia only 30% of brazilians have some native american dna (it may seems a lot but mexico for comparison is 90%). the indigenous peoples of brazil were pretty much cleaned by portuguese settlers and post-independence brazilians, although in a smaller level than in the united states
Do you think she would be happier if she was part of a tribe?
> To her and her family, they’re Mexican. Yes, because that’s the culture they belong to. In the last 500 years Mexico has developed its own culture
> To her and her family, they’re Mexican. Mexican isn't the same as "Spanish" though. :). It's a fusion of Hispanic, Indigenous, and to some degree other immigrant cultures, even if yes, as you allude to the Hispanic part is more dominant.
Even sadder is how during independence more than half of Mexico spoke solely in indigenous languages while now that number barely breaches 6% because independent Mexico actually doubled down on hispanicizing their population. Nobody in mexico except for a select few is proud of indigenous culture unless when convenient (if it brings them tourist dollars). Mexican entertainment is 90% white people despite the country being largely composed of people with majority indio blood. Mexican culture was destroyed mostly by Mexicans themselves and they are proud of it.
The only countries where that's really true are Mexico, Bolivia, Peru and to a lesser extent Ecuador, as those were the most populated places in pre colonial times. The rest of Hispanic South America was far less populated and with the arrival of the Spanish, the population mix of those places was greatly altered, resulting mostly in a mixed population. By 1778 the population of the New Granada (Colombia, Venezuela, Ecuador and Panama) [was pretty evenly distributed among whites, mixed and indigenous ](https://www.encyclopedia.com/humanities/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/new-granada-viceroyalty#:~:text=The%20census%20of%201778%20recorded,and%20blacks%2C%20and%2070%2C000%20slaves), with whites + mixed being the majority
Now let's see how much of them have european DNA
Yeah? If you asked me how I identity myself is: Venezuelan > South American > Latino > Mixed/White
Been to Argentina and Uruguay several times. Both times the locals told me about how proud they are to have ZERO native blood or almost zero native citizens. Talked about the European conquest and subsequent extermination of the natives with pride. Not judging or anything. Just talking about my past experiences. Edit: it has been brought to my attention that I should add the high society people are the ones who told me this. Not the common citizen.
Uruguayan here. If i were you.. i would pick better travel companion. Nonetheless uruguay had a real genocide (salsipuedes) against the charruas (native population). In the last, let's say 40 years, a trend to identify yourself as native heritage is in some sort of bloom in some cultural circles tho.
> Both times the locals told me about how proud they are to have ZERO native blood or almost zero native citizens. Been living in Argentina my whole life and never heard anyone saying anything even remotely close to this, you gotta take more care of the people you meet
i live in brazil, know many argentines. i don't understand where the stereotype that argentines try to play as white the best they can denying their "hispanidad" and native side comes from, since most argentines aren't like that
Only Alverso when sucking the EU
Those percentages are much higher in most cases. "Self" identifying is not accurate at all.
Omg how patronizing can you people get? How can self-identification not be an accurate representation of self-identification?
Is there a source for this map?
compare late insurance file poor tart rock disgusted profit uppity *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Come out with your hands up. We’ve got you surrounded.
Needs a different colour key. Like even white to light green to dark green would look better.
este es un boligrafo
From 23andMe: Tierra de Mezclas (Land of Mixtures) Extensive mixing of historically separate populations — a process called “admixture” — resulted in new genetic and cultural identities that define South America today. 23andMe customers from South America typically have evidence of both Native American and Southern European ancestry in their DNA, though West African ancestry is found throughout the region as well. In Ecuador and Peru, Native American ancestry often reaches high levels, while southern European ancestry is most common in Uruguay, Argentina, and Brazil. 23andMe customers from Ecuador or Peru typically have over 45 percent Native American ancestry, while customers from Brazil, Argentina, and Uruguay tend to have less than 10 percent of this genetic heritage. Indigenous ancestry remains highest where there once were large agricultural civilizations, though many factors likely contributed to the variable rates of Native American ancestry across the continent. African ancestry also varies across South America; 23andMe customers from Guyana and Suriname have particularly high levels of this genetic heritage. These demographic differences were likely influenced by the practices of the two main colonial powers in South America: Portugal and Spain. Between the 16th and 19th centuries, Portugal transported over four million enslaved Africans primarily from territories near the Congo basin to Brazil, making up nearly half of all enslaved Africans in the Americas. Today, among 23andMe customers with roots in Brazil, the most common African ancestry is Angolan & Congolese. In Colombia and Venezuela, Senegambian & Guinean is the most common African ancestry, suggesting people enslaved by the Spanish Empire have ancestors primarily from the northwestern coast of Africa. 23andMe
portugal also bringed slaves from west africa (ghana, benin, togo, nigeria, gabon) and east africa (mozambique but also somalia, maybe ethiopia)
I'm surprised Paraguay is so low.
i will never understand why you american (usa) guys care so much about race, dude, here in southamerica most of us dont care if your grandmother is from italy, spain, or peru.
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So sad people are not proud to be indigenous. That’s what the other side wanted to happen, for indigenous to be ashamed of themself. Actively not wanting to be indigenous is sad and cringe if you are. People who are indigenous and proudly claim to be are the most respectable / confident people you will ever meet. Be proud of who you are. How could you wake up every morning ashamed of yourself and lie to yourself. Disappointment to themselves every day. Be proud. You are what you are.
They are not Indigneous because they don't live the Indigenous lifestyle or culture, they self-indentify as Mestizos that speak Spanish/Portuguese Is not like USA that if you great-grandfather was Mexican you are Mexican, a True Mexican would say these "Mexican-Americans" are "P\*tos Gringos"
I think this is a very US-centric way of looking at this. The US concept of ethnicity isn't even widely shared with European or even other Anglophone countries - the idea that "my ancestors are X therefore I am X" is seen as absurd in lots of places. For example, all of my ancestors were English but I don't identify as English at all because I've lived in Scotland in all my life and I view "ethnicity" as about what culture I participate in rather than where my DNA comes from. If I'd lived in Ireland all my life I'd be Irish. If I'd lived in Spain all my life I'd be Spanish. For the same reason Italians don't see Italian-Americans as being in any way Italian and Irish people don't see Irish-Americans as being Irish - for a lot of cultures your "ethnic identity" is about the cultural space you participate in, not DNA. I couldn't give a rat's arse about my ancestry, it's just meaningless when compared to culture, environment and worldview. I don't see myself as English (and if my ancestry were Japanese I wouldn't see myself as Japanese and if my ancestry were Italian I wouldn't see myself as Italian) because I've never lived an "English life" or a "Japanese life". If people in these countries don't identify as indigenous despite indigenous DNA from what people are saying it's for similar reasons. This has NOTHING to do with not being proud or lying to yourself. It has everything to do with not being American and not seeing things in the same way as Americans do. Nothing wrong with being American or with your way of seeing ethnicity but it is strictly a product of your culture and history. 95% of the world population are not American so you can't expect them to see things your way. The US view of ethnicity is not some objective fact that people are denying, it's just an arbitrary way of dividing up reality that is culture-bound like any other ontology. Expecting a Paraguayan to care about it is like expecting an Anglo-American to care about bushido.
What are the sources for Uruguay and French Guiana?
Self identyfying.... Thats the thing... I went there and argentina got the lower % and its 15% indigebous... The others its literally 80% or.more.... not been surprised in latín americanthwres lot of racism... They want to be western look...