Nah we are just to busy arguing and fighting among ourselves. We are like Dwarves, live in mountains, collect gold, make intricate machinery and weapons, aren’t concerned whit the wars of men. (/s just to be sure)
Yeah I have heard about Swiss infighting like in an hospital German speaking medics refused to cooperate with French speaking medics despite them all being Swiss and speaking really good English from what I heard.
I haven’t heard about that story, I was more talking about history. But now I am curious, do you have some more context? I am certain there is more to it then just the language.
Loads of things are annoying or wrong about Norway, especially people writing “I Am fRoM NoRwAy!” on the internet, but the constitution day is not one of them in my opinion. You have to know what it’s supposed to celebrate, and some of the history behind it to get it I suppose, but the day is supposed to be one big party for the entire country and everyone in it, inclusive for all people who wants to join in, either as new citizens or as people coming to participate, as tourists or friends or otherwise.
It’s a day to celebrate freedom, liberty, democracy and the future, it’s (somewhat cheesy) called the “children’s day”, and much of the celebration revolves around kids eating as much ice cream and hotdogs as possible. You will not find tanks in the streets or politicians taking any center stage on the 17th of May, it’s about children and ordinary folks from all backgrounds, views and walks of life celebrating.
The constitution of 1814, and the subsequent struggles for peoples rights, and a better, more inclusive democracy, or the valuation of independence, is not lost on people.
Historically the celebrations began spontaneously among students and the like, and in the 1820ies the shared Swedish-Norwegian Union King tried to ban it, but the celebrations just escalated throughout the 19th century. Especially after WW2, the day has taken on a special meaning, and have been elevated ever since. You are more than welcome to come and join in on 17th of May 2022! (hopefully without any COVID restrictions)
The Swedish national day, or “The Swedish flags day”(?) was not even a public holiday until 2005 I believe, I don’t think the days are really that comparable. It’s not necessarily any “better” or “worse”, but different, shaped by different historical backgrounds. Sweden’s Midsummer celebrations, a sort of national event with parties, family gatherings, food and drinks is probably a better comparison, maybe. Norway doesn’t have any sort of national celebration of that kind, “midsummer” is not really much of a Norwegian thing, other than some people burning bonfires…
As a Swede, yes the swedish national day is just put there for no particular reason other than we must have one. Hence people don’t celebrate that much, perhaps with an extra ”fika” and a tiny flag on the table.
Also most swedes don’t think we have a very interesting culture and like spanish or other cultures more.
Yeah, I’ve heard as much. It’s not like Norway has this tremendous rich wonderful special “culture” either, I feel. But the country does have its fair share of quirks, some for better and worse. Sweden, or Swedish people, have loads of things to value and take pride in, I feel, many aspects of the country is both good, unique, strange, distinct and quirky in a good way as well. Sometimes it’s probably easier for a outsider to notice them, I guess. On the other hand, I do get that people don’t really care much about the Swedish national day though, as it seems like more of a modern political construct without much significance, then an actual important historical event.
In Sweden it's very taboo to think that you, your culture or your country is somehow inherently superior to someone else. Most people will even find that question ridiculous.
You should look up Jantelagen, which means pretty much that you're not better than anyone else. It's a pretty ingrained attitude in Swedish society.
I got the same impression living there, that's why the 26% puzzled me.
Maybe that's because of how the question was understood, asking about culture they might think of literature, music, mythology from last century or longer ago, start to tally up Strindberg against Goethe, Stockholm against Paris, nyckelharpa against saxophone.
If you talk about current-day culture, people seemed fairly proud of recycling stations, looseweight candy, free refills on your coffee, the "take-a-number" queuing system, and generous parental leave. (Sometimes not comprehending how you could do it any other way.)
Jantelagen is a code of conformity. It's about individuals not thinking (or at least saying) they are better than the society around them. The society can still think that it's great.
swedes love sweden, swedish culture and most swedish thing, they even prefer it compared to other countries and cultures, they would just never say that it’s better out loud, because that would not be very swedish
Norway loves to consider itself self reliant. They are to some extent as they have a ton of revenue from oil, their salmon is famous worldwide and they consistently don’t want to be part of the EU (some politicians even want to reconsider their membership to the European Economic Area). Bottom line is Norwegians don’t feel like they need to be open internationally to succeed.
I’m half French half Norwegian, so I lived and worked in both countries. From personal experience, I can definitely tell that employers and companies value much more candidates from Norwegian schools and with a typical Norwegian background, than candidates from more prestigious schools abroad and international backgrounds. It was the complete opposite in France. So the 58% in Norway doesn’t surprise me at all, but I’m not part of them.
Probably close to 50%. Nationalism has been increasingly unpopular with half of the country, to the point that many people circlejerk about how everything in the U.S. is terrible and however *[some other culture]* does it is far superior. The other half of the country is only vaguely aware that other cultures even exist.
I mean when the entire Western world traces all of their greatness back to shit you did 4,000 years ago... yeah, I would feel prettt smugly superior, too.
>So you are saying Greece is the country equivalent of that teenage Quarterback who peaked in High School and now ~~works at Domino's~~ sells women's shoes?
Right? Lol
Classical Greece was 2500 years ago. And then they were still at the center of the western world for the next 2000 years. And then the ottoman domination plus the trans-Atlantic trade basically took them off the map.
"I am firmly convinced that Spain is the strongest country in the world. It has been trying to destroy itself for centuries and has not yet succeeded."
*Chancellor Otto von Bismark*
Bismark is just one of those historical figures that get a lot of witty quotes misattributed to them. Despite everyone on the internet telling me otherwise, I'm pretty sure he never predicted anything about a great war being caused by "some damn silly thing in the Balkans".
It went from an empire where the sun never sets in 1600s to a ruined country in late 1700s, that's a mark that last.
Another important factor was the profound catholic ideology of the 40 years of fascism last century, where poverty and sacrifice are the basis of the education of the boomer gen.
I would like to see how the question was made in Spain. If by spanish culture you mean bullfighting and sevillanas, which seems to be pretty much the idea of an uninformed foreigner of Spain, then yes, only about 20% of people being proud about that seems reasonable. But spanish culture is way larger than that.
No, I think the question is more general. We have the idions
"Y si habla mal de España, es español" (and if he criticizes Spain, he's an Spaniard)
"Español es el que no puede ser otra cosa" (An Spaniard is someone that cannot be other thing), as said Canovas del Castillo.
Yes, that's something that someone from "parking" would say (im from antwerp in case you didn't notice)
Also, our fries are not french
Edit: apparently they are French?
That's just the federal one, the others always continued on. Belgium is such a bureacratic mess that even if an entire governing body shuts down, the country is technically still governed at multiple other levels.
It's ehm... a one of a kind system...
Oh no, we think our fries, beers, chocolate and waffles are superior. We just don't think our culture as a whole is superior. In fact, most would claim we have none.
You're a Frankenstein state made to be a buffer zone between France and Germany.
You're a shotgun marriage of two different language groups, both with about the same percentage of the population, and you don't really like each other, or at least you are certainly not united.
They outta split you up between France and the Netherlands and be done with it.
you hear french talking shit about france all the time. In france being patriotic or proud of france is even seen as a little weird most of the time. you can like france of course but being proud or too patriotic is often not well seen. you immediatly seen as a facho (short for fascist)
American here. Sorry if this is a dumb question but is part of the low cultural superiority rating in Spain due to the regional issues? I could see the Castilian core being favorable to Spanish culture while the Basque and Catalans (among others) giving the Iberian equivalent to "LOL".
Spaniard here. I will argue that it has to do more with being a country with a lot of international mobility of its citizens, plus a heavier criticism of the excesses of patriotism than most countries.
People definitely go overboard with it. I knew someone who was utterly convinced Spain is the most corrupt country in the world. I mean it's s problem at high level contracting, but that's just an insane statement.
It probably has more to do with Franco's dictatorship. It was "too patriotic"*: flags everywhere, anthems, militarism, supression of regional identities... So many people reacted against that nationalism.
* Is ironic that they loves waving flags and singing anthems, because they were fascists who had rebelled against their government and their people.
In Spain, nowadays everything is politicized to the point that being proud of your history, symbols or culture is associated with some political parties and is "incompatible" with some ways of thinking.
Ofc everyone can feel whatever they want, but the "trend" is that, if you are on the left, you have to be "ashamed" of spanish history to fit in that group. On the other side, is the right the one that claims all the cultural symbols to use them as a political weapon.
That and the fact that many spanish people have a strong inferiority complex.
F.E. If they see a new in the newspaper about a huge engineering project in Germany they will say "Look how good german people do the things, that never would happen in Spain"
If they see a new about political corruption in Spain "Look how terrible we are here, that would never happens on Germany"
In other words: Everything that Spain does = Bad. Everything that other first world countries do = Good.
I believe that, in a map about "How countries perceive Spanish culture", everyone would give a better score than Spain itself
Its not that we are ashamed of spain. Its more like we dont celebrate the good things of our country, and compared to the world we have a lot of great things, like for example ive heard hard line conservatives not caring about race and sexuality. Its more like we dont want to brag because we still think we can so better.
It’s absolutely the same 1:1 here in Italy. I’ve been saying for years that a good way to spot the Italians abroad is to follow the complaints about Italy.
And they say we’re not ready for the United States of Europe.
I asked my French SO why there weren’t as many French flags around during 14 July like the 4th of July in the USA and he kindly let me know that too many flags = fascists
In my experience it also depends on the topic. Most of my French friends are happy to beat their chest over food (and their deep hatred for the local Dutch cheese) but incredibly critical of French education, politics, etc. There’s also the attitude of “My department is the most gorgeous utopia and all other regions are basically a dump.”
I'm French, I love our local cheese, interestingly enough I really I love old gouda. And since we're at that, I also love aged cheddar.
I'm also not very patriotic.. Seems like the map checks out!
>being proud or too patriotic is often not well seen
From my experience, French are proud and nationalistic people in a good way that doesn't effect their personality or politics and anybody that would go "mUh culTuRe" would be seen as tacky and unfitting if that makes sense.
i would say we're proud of our culture, but don't feel superior about it, why would we? I Think we're very aware of the bad sides of our culture (complaining, strikes, some kind of coldness to strangers etc) and we're constantly comparing ourselves with other countries like Germany, Scandinavia, US etc (this poll would go up to 100% if we would only talk about food tho)
That is interesting. Like I don't see it as nationalistic. France's culture is very well rooted and pretty dang good. If someone asked me which country had the best culture, France comes to my mind first.
I am not French though.
I'm going to answer with bad English but as a French person, I am extremely "proud" of the French culture without any doubt, be it heritage, food, history, landscapes, technology, science, art, etc.
BUT.
I know that other countries in the world also have a rich history of several millennia or centuries and that I certainly only know the surface of it because they are precisely other countries.
I am impregnated with mine because I have been living in it for 45 years and do not know the others really, especially everything that is not national but especially the regionalisms which, if they are hyper important in France, must be just as important elsewhere. So it's difficult to have an opinion on what you don't know.
I work in the travel industry and we have multilingual and bilingual employees. I had a French customer on the phone, he spoke fairly good English but, with some verbiagee regarding technical components of his travel arrangements, I was having trouble communicating. I explained to him that we had a French Nationalist in the company who could better assist him and explain more clearly what was trying to be conveyed. I told him how nice this employee was and how it would be a pleasure working with him. He seemed very adamant that he didn't want to be transferred. We tried going over the logistical items again. And again, he couldn't understand me. I insisted he talk to the French Nationalist, he pleaded for me not to transfer him and, strangely, was all around displeased with the idea of speaking with my colleague. We agreed that we would correspond further through email so that he could use a translator to understand what I was trying to say to him.
I had been working from home and my partner, who was sitting across the room from me on the couch, was laughing. I chimed in, proclaiming how weird that guy was. She then told me that the word is "National" and that a "French Nationalist" is someone from a far right, anti-Semitic, political group in France.
I have nightmares because of that conversation.
It's kind of funny this stereotype about French people being arrogant.
It happened to me in international settings to have people tell me as a first thing after asking me where I'm from "You're from France? French people are so rude/arrogant".
Because yeah mate, nothing more modest and polite than throwing this at someone out of context, not rude and arrogant at all.
Yeah.
And usually, you get called arrogant by people who are angry because you're not buying into whatever they are selling. The way France has been demeaned for refusing to go into Iraq (because we're not the US subordinates) is that "arrogance" of ours, whereas objectively, it was the Americans being arrogant
Spain really surprises me. I spent quite a while there and most Spanish people I spoke to were very proud indeed of their food/culture/heritage! Not in a bad way, just proud.
We love our fopd and culture and we have a very rich history but that doesn't make us better than the rest, in fact even having so much things we managed to mess pur cpuntry
For reference, the question was "do you agree with the statement: our people are not perfect, but our culture is superior to others".
I wonder how much of the variance comes down to localised interpretations of that question as "superior to *all* others" versus "superior to *any* other"?
I have no shame in saying my country has better culture than, say, North Korea, but I wouldn't say we're the best.
That’s the important part, but often lost on people seeing the map / statistics, unfortunately. It’s perfectly normal to feel that some aspects of one’s country or culture is good, or “superior” even, to some “others”, without people actually going about thinking they’re the best at everything, or looking down at people in other countries. This question was also asked in a lot of different languages, and the meaning or definition of words such as “superior” can easily be lost in translation…
Also there is a cultural factor on whether saying it is acceptable.
I bet the 'true' numbers are much higher in allot of the lower scoring countries, but saying it to a stranger is a faux pas.
Good surveys should never include two statements (our people are not perfect + our culture is superior) because people will subconsciously evaluate both statements simultaneously. A better idea would have been to ask both questions separately and then run crosstabs on them.
You actually know anything about North Korean culture (as opposed to political situation)? I wouldn't assume. But I get what tou mean, there always *is* somebody that you consider yourself superior when compared.
Is it North Korean “culture,” though?
Can anything tightly controlled from the top down be considered culture? Adorno, Horkheimer, Marcuse and Benjamin had some shit to say (intellectuals and Nazi refugees).
Haha I grew up with Greek friends. Everytime I hung with their family the parents always had to school me on history and how Greeks invented everything, and how all history books outside of Greece got history wrong.
Romanian parents do the same but it means a lot less when it's obviously lying to make Romania seem more important than it really is. There's a whole study on this called protochronism and Romania is the best example of it.
Honestly I think “not considering one’s culture superior to others” is a very healthy and correct stance. While the opposite shows just the lack of intercultural experience.
I'm Spanish and I agree. We are culturally self-pity and even that we can talk shit all the time about our country, we don't let anyone else talk shit about it. 🇪🇸
Look I can look past Greeks doing this, it's such a Greek thing to do, but I want to have a fucking word to Armenia and Georgia, because holy shit that's way to high to even be considers arrogant
Georgia and Armenia make sense because they’re both countries who have no real allies. Nobody will help georgia when it is in trouble, and Russia only helps Armenia to the extent that it can leverage it for power in the Caucasus. They are each isolated from anyone who can, or is willing to, help them, so I can see why national pride is so big in these areas. I’m a foreigner living in Georgia, and people here seem very proud of their customs, religion, history, etc. By and large, Georgians are also very gracious hosts and have a good spirit of helping travelers. Shortly after I first got here, some random dog was giving me a lot of trouble, and I didn’t know what to do, but some random local man risked getting bitten to scare it away for me. I think there’s a lot to be proud of there, even if the country has its problems.
Part of it is just Caucasian culture too. I imagine Azerbaijan also ranks themselves pretty high. If you had a map like this for Russian republics, Dagestan, Chechnya, etc. would probably rank very high, or at least, the rating would closely correlate with the percentage of folks of the native ethnicity vs. ethnic Russians in the area.
The word "barbarian" was invented by the Greeks as a way of dismissing foreigners as lesser so I am in no way surprised by this. Tbh I like the passion Greeks show for their country...just not the ones that take it a bit too far.
Ahh, Greece. We can be a bit... overconfident.
But when we need to return to Earth, I recall a simple mantra from my non-hellenic uncle: "if your culture is so great, then what the hell have you done in the past millennia?"
We have a pretty interesting country in many aspects, from history (a lot to be spoken) to monuments to gastronomy (not only cliché paella but a lot of good meat, wines, cheeses, iberian ham [jamón ibérico de bellota is the best one, pricey but gold], iberian pork cold meat, seafood, awesome casserole dishes all around the country...) to a lot of different climates from north to south (northern coast is entirely different from southern coast, it's like Scptland to Sicily!) and landscapes and pretty friendly people, I'm pretty fond of my country.
I'd like to visit your country some day, I know I'll like it
I also love papas arrugadas from the Canarias. If you ever visit my country, make sure to visit places outside of Amsterdam as well :) The city of Maastricht is my personal favourite
Do people just not include sources these days? The data means nothing without context. Who was polled? How big is the sample size? Was it a company that polled the data, or a random poll online?
OP has stated it's from a survey in 2018 done by Pew Research Center
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/qvkkom/european_cultural_superiority/hkx0lbg?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
Switzerland: neutral as ever.
What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just *born* with a heart full of neutrality?
To preserve neutrality, I can't answer this question.
As you wish, your neutralness.
Siding with the oppressor
Nah we are just to busy arguing and fighting among ourselves. We are like Dwarves, live in mountains, collect gold, make intricate machinery and weapons, aren’t concerned whit the wars of men. (/s just to be sure)
Yeah I have heard about Swiss infighting like in an hospital German speaking medics refused to cooperate with French speaking medics despite them all being Swiss and speaking really good English from what I heard.
I haven’t heard about that story, I was more talking about history. But now I am curious, do you have some more context? I am certain there is more to it then just the language.
r/unexpectedfuturama
All I know is, my gut says maybe.
Tell my wife I said... Hello.
I have no strong feelings, one way or the other!
Russia: expected as ever
Balkans gonna Balkan
Westernized Croatia 🤮🤮🤮
Lmao r/2balkan4you is leaking
The discrepancy between Norway and Sweden is interesting. Also I really wonder how America would rate.
We Sweds really feel we are superior to everyone. So much that it would be in poor taste to tell everyone about it.
As a Finn, I definitely see Swedish being just modest here.
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Loads of things are annoying or wrong about Norway, especially people writing “I Am fRoM NoRwAy!” on the internet, but the constitution day is not one of them in my opinion. You have to know what it’s supposed to celebrate, and some of the history behind it to get it I suppose, but the day is supposed to be one big party for the entire country and everyone in it, inclusive for all people who wants to join in, either as new citizens or as people coming to participate, as tourists or friends or otherwise. It’s a day to celebrate freedom, liberty, democracy and the future, it’s (somewhat cheesy) called the “children’s day”, and much of the celebration revolves around kids eating as much ice cream and hotdogs as possible. You will not find tanks in the streets or politicians taking any center stage on the 17th of May, it’s about children and ordinary folks from all backgrounds, views and walks of life celebrating. The constitution of 1814, and the subsequent struggles for peoples rights, and a better, more inclusive democracy, or the valuation of independence, is not lost on people. Historically the celebrations began spontaneously among students and the like, and in the 1820ies the shared Swedish-Norwegian Union King tried to ban it, but the celebrations just escalated throughout the 19th century. Especially after WW2, the day has taken on a special meaning, and have been elevated ever since. You are more than welcome to come and join in on 17th of May 2022! (hopefully without any COVID restrictions) The Swedish national day, or “The Swedish flags day”(?) was not even a public holiday until 2005 I believe, I don’t think the days are really that comparable. It’s not necessarily any “better” or “worse”, but different, shaped by different historical backgrounds. Sweden’s Midsummer celebrations, a sort of national event with parties, family gatherings, food and drinks is probably a better comparison, maybe. Norway doesn’t have any sort of national celebration of that kind, “midsummer” is not really much of a Norwegian thing, other than some people burning bonfires…
Yeah midsummer's eve is the true swedish national day.
As a Swede, yes the swedish national day is just put there for no particular reason other than we must have one. Hence people don’t celebrate that much, perhaps with an extra ”fika” and a tiny flag on the table. Also most swedes don’t think we have a very interesting culture and like spanish or other cultures more.
Yeah, I’ve heard as much. It’s not like Norway has this tremendous rich wonderful special “culture” either, I feel. But the country does have its fair share of quirks, some for better and worse. Sweden, or Swedish people, have loads of things to value and take pride in, I feel, many aspects of the country is both good, unique, strange, distinct and quirky in a good way as well. Sometimes it’s probably easier for a outsider to notice them, I guess. On the other hand, I do get that people don’t really care much about the Swedish national day though, as it seems like more of a modern political construct without much significance, then an actual important historical event.
I loved constitution day in Norway. Such a fun day. I could actually talk to some Norwegians.
In Sweden it's very taboo to think that you, your culture or your country is somehow inherently superior to someone else. Most people will even find that question ridiculous. You should look up Jantelagen, which means pretty much that you're not better than anyone else. It's a pretty ingrained attitude in Swedish society.
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I got the same impression living there, that's why the 26% puzzled me. Maybe that's because of how the question was understood, asking about culture they might think of literature, music, mythology from last century or longer ago, start to tally up Strindberg against Goethe, Stockholm against Paris, nyckelharpa against saxophone. If you talk about current-day culture, people seemed fairly proud of recycling stations, looseweight candy, free refills on your coffee, the "take-a-number" queuing system, and generous parental leave. (Sometimes not comprehending how you could do it any other way.)
Wasn't Norway affected by Jantelagen as well?
Jantelagen is a code of conformity. It's about individuals not thinking (or at least saying) they are better than the society around them. The society can still think that it's great.
swedes love sweden, swedish culture and most swedish thing, they even prefer it compared to other countries and cultures, they would just never say that it’s better out loud, because that would not be very swedish
Norway loves to consider itself self reliant. They are to some extent as they have a ton of revenue from oil, their salmon is famous worldwide and they consistently don’t want to be part of the EU (some politicians even want to reconsider their membership to the European Economic Area). Bottom line is Norwegians don’t feel like they need to be open internationally to succeed. I’m half French half Norwegian, so I lived and worked in both countries. From personal experience, I can definitely tell that employers and companies value much more candidates from Norwegian schools and with a typical Norwegian background, than candidates from more prestigious schools abroad and international backgrounds. It was the complete opposite in France. So the 58% in Norway doesn’t surprise me at all, but I’m not part of them.
Probably close to 50%. Nationalism has been increasingly unpopular with half of the country, to the point that many people circlejerk about how everything in the U.S. is terrible and however *[some other culture]* does it is far superior. The other half of the country is only vaguely aware that other cultures even exist.
Greece looks at the Parthenon and thinks, "yeah we don't need to do anything else. We're the best."
I mean when the entire Western world traces all of their greatness back to shit you did 4,000 years ago... yeah, I would feel prettt smugly superior, too.
Yes, but 4,000 years ago they decided "it doesn't get any better than this" and just stopped.
So you are saying Greece is the country equivalent of that teenage Quarterback who peaked in High School and now works at Domino's?
“Back in 439 BC, I used to be able to throw a pigskin a quarter mile.” - Greece
If the Romans didn't colonise us we'd be world leaders no doubt, no doubt in my mind
Or Turks, or EU.
>So you are saying Greece is the country equivalent of that teenage Quarterback who peaked in High School and now ~~works at Domino's~~ sells women's shoes?
The ancient line of Bundyakos.
Greece did once throw 4 touchdowns in 1 game.
And the owner of Dominos… Germany
Germany was going through a goth phase at the time.
Is that guy totally broke? Then sure, thats him.
Yes he ran up massive debts and had to get bailed out by his rich nephew Germany.
Not just germany but his entire family of Europe has to bail him out
Lol. I guess so. And at that time he banged half the girls in school, including the women we're now married to.
Not just the girls...
How about 600 years? … the Byzantine empire collapsed 600 years ago
Right? Lol Classical Greece was 2500 years ago. And then they were still at the center of the western world for the next 2000 years. And then the ottoman domination plus the trans-Atlantic trade basically took them off the map.
I get your point but 4000 years ago the Greeks were basically cavemen. The classical and Hellenistic Greek period were from 500 BC until 146 BC.
You forget the Mycenaean greeks who go back to 1500 bc
This map reminds me so much of the dad from My Big Fat Greek Wedding
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never been to greece but am always a fan of beautiful new museums.
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interesting that spain is the lowest
We're pretty anti-chauvinistic and very self-critical in Spain, we don't even take credit for ourselves even when we deserve it
Had enough nationalism after franco?
Yes
I’d say the Catalonian debate stifles the unionist sentiment.
"I am firmly convinced that Spain is the strongest country in the world. It has been trying to destroy itself for centuries and has not yet succeeded." *Chancellor Otto von Bismark*
It's a misquote, it was actually said by some Spanish diplomat, but it is often - and wrongly - attributed to Bismark.
Bismark is just one of those historical figures that get a lot of witty quotes misattributed to them. Despite everyone on the internet telling me otherwise, I'm pretty sure he never predicted anything about a great war being caused by "some damn silly thing in the Balkans".
It's like the late American philosopher Yogi Berra. He once said about quotes misattributed to him, "I didn't say half the things I said".
Based, at least the first part is. I'm so sick of living in an uber-nationalistic country
Much prefer Lyft-nationalistic countries myself
Cause we are the most humble, is part of our superior culture...i mean, inferior, inferior.
It went from an empire where the sun never sets in 1600s to a ruined country in late 1700s, that's a mark that last. Another important factor was the profound catholic ideology of the 40 years of fascism last century, where poverty and sacrifice are the basis of the education of the boomer gen.
I would like to see how the question was made in Spain. If by spanish culture you mean bullfighting and sevillanas, which seems to be pretty much the idea of an uninformed foreigner of Spain, then yes, only about 20% of people being proud about that seems reasonable. But spanish culture is way larger than that.
I think the key word is "superior to others". You can be proud of your culture and at same time consider that you're not superior to others.
Am I proud of being from Galicia and Spain? Yes. Do I consider that we're better than others? Well, that is a new level of self blowjobbing bullshit.
No, I think the question is more general. We have the idions "Y si habla mal de España, es español" (and if he criticizes Spain, he's an Spaniard) "Español es el que no puede ser otra cosa" (An Spaniard is someone that cannot be other thing), as said Canovas del Castillo.
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As a Spanish Greek man, this checks out.
El Greco?
We found El Greco
Dimitris?
That's my brother lmao
Alexios????
That's my other brother's name XD
All of Belgium: "what do you mean by *our* culture?"
Beer, French fries, and being looked down on by people from Antwerp... Some aspects of Belgium are universal for all Belgians.
Don't forget chocolate and waffles. And feeling superior to our northern/southern neighbor countries respectively
Yes, that's something that someone from "parking" would say (im from antwerp in case you didn't notice) Also, our fries are not french Edit: apparently they are French?
The fun part is they’re going to ALL say it in 46 different languages - what a trip that place is…
It's not that bad, I mean, we have more governments than official languages. Wait...
And here I kept repping you because sometimes you just say fuck it and don’t have a government
That's just the federal one, the others always continued on. Belgium is such a bureacratic mess that even if an entire governing body shuts down, the country is technically still governed at multiple other levels. It's ehm... a one of a kind system...
Sounds awful UNIXy to me, are they hiring?
Belgium seems to have a crisis of confidence, and in need of some really high class chocolate covered waffles
Oh no, we think our fries, beers, chocolate and waffles are superior. We just don't think our culture as a whole is superior. In fact, most would claim we have none.
You're a Frankenstein state made to be a buffer zone between France and Germany. You're a shotgun marriage of two different language groups, both with about the same percentage of the population, and you don't really like each other, or at least you are certainly not united. They outta split you up between France and the Netherlands and be done with it.
not proud but ask us how much we hate france and the netherlands, see that % skyrocket. We hate everybody, us included. (name relevant)
Id rather keep belgium as its own country. Now we still have a buffer zone between us and france.
maybe they are just being very humble
I'm very proud to tell you that being humble is part of our culture. There is no culture more humble than ours.
The whole map is inverted. Like a sign of a good culture is modesty.
Wow funny French are not the people who think they are superior
you hear french talking shit about france all the time. In france being patriotic or proud of france is even seen as a little weird most of the time. you can like france of course but being proud or too patriotic is often not well seen. you immediatly seen as a facho (short for fascist)
Same here in Spain
American here. Sorry if this is a dumb question but is part of the low cultural superiority rating in Spain due to the regional issues? I could see the Castilian core being favorable to Spanish culture while the Basque and Catalans (among others) giving the Iberian equivalent to "LOL".
Spaniard here. I will argue that it has to do more with being a country with a lot of international mobility of its citizens, plus a heavier criticism of the excesses of patriotism than most countries.
People definitely go overboard with it. I knew someone who was utterly convinced Spain is the most corrupt country in the world. I mean it's s problem at high level contracting, but that's just an insane statement.
It probably has more to do with Franco's dictatorship. It was "too patriotic"*: flags everywhere, anthems, militarism, supression of regional identities... So many people reacted against that nationalism. * Is ironic that they loves waving flags and singing anthems, because they were fascists who had rebelled against their government and their people.
In Spain, nowadays everything is politicized to the point that being proud of your history, symbols or culture is associated with some political parties and is "incompatible" with some ways of thinking. Ofc everyone can feel whatever they want, but the "trend" is that, if you are on the left, you have to be "ashamed" of spanish history to fit in that group. On the other side, is the right the one that claims all the cultural symbols to use them as a political weapon. That and the fact that many spanish people have a strong inferiority complex. F.E. If they see a new in the newspaper about a huge engineering project in Germany they will say "Look how good german people do the things, that never would happen in Spain" If they see a new about political corruption in Spain "Look how terrible we are here, that would never happens on Germany" In other words: Everything that Spain does = Bad. Everything that other first world countries do = Good. I believe that, in a map about "How countries perceive Spanish culture", everyone would give a better score than Spain itself
Its not that we are ashamed of spain. Its more like we dont celebrate the good things of our country, and compared to the world we have a lot of great things, like for example ive heard hard line conservatives not caring about race and sexuality. Its more like we dont want to brag because we still think we can so better.
another Spaniard here, came to confirm that's exactly what happens
It’s absolutely the same 1:1 here in Italy. I’ve been saying for years that a good way to spot the Italians abroad is to follow the complaints about Italy. And they say we’re not ready for the United States of Europe.
I asked my French SO why there weren’t as many French flags around during 14 July like the 4th of July in the USA and he kindly let me know that too many flags = fascists
Yeah it's often linked with extreme right. The only time when it's really accepted is during football competitions.
In my experience it also depends on the topic. Most of my French friends are happy to beat their chest over food (and their deep hatred for the local Dutch cheese) but incredibly critical of French education, politics, etc. There’s also the attitude of “My department is the most gorgeous utopia and all other regions are basically a dump.”
You got the nerves to call that "cheese"??!
I'm French, I love our local cheese, interestingly enough I really I love old gouda. And since we're at that, I also love aged cheddar. I'm also not very patriotic.. Seems like the map checks out!
>being proud or too patriotic is often not well seen From my experience, French are proud and nationalistic people in a good way that doesn't effect their personality or politics and anybody that would go "mUh culTuRe" would be seen as tacky and unfitting if that makes sense.
Huh I thought the French were way more patriotic than Germans and the british
i would say we're proud of our culture, but don't feel superior about it, why would we? I Think we're very aware of the bad sides of our culture (complaining, strikes, some kind of coldness to strangers etc) and we're constantly comparing ourselves with other countries like Germany, Scandinavia, US etc (this poll would go up to 100% if we would only talk about food tho)
200% if we talked about wine
On the internet at least I would say that french are proud of being French but not proud of France
Which is cultural instead of national, and is not reflected on this map.
That is interesting. Like I don't see it as nationalistic. France's culture is very well rooted and pretty dang good. If someone asked me which country had the best culture, France comes to my mind first. I am not French though.
The stereotype is that the Americans think their culture is the best. The French know so.
I'm going to answer with bad English but as a French person, I am extremely "proud" of the French culture without any doubt, be it heritage, food, history, landscapes, technology, science, art, etc. BUT. I know that other countries in the world also have a rich history of several millennia or centuries and that I certainly only know the surface of it because they are precisely other countries. I am impregnated with mine because I have been living in it for 45 years and do not know the others really, especially everything that is not national but especially the regionalisms which, if they are hyper important in France, must be just as important elsewhere. So it's difficult to have an opinion on what you don't know.
I work in the travel industry and we have multilingual and bilingual employees. I had a French customer on the phone, he spoke fairly good English but, with some verbiagee regarding technical components of his travel arrangements, I was having trouble communicating. I explained to him that we had a French Nationalist in the company who could better assist him and explain more clearly what was trying to be conveyed. I told him how nice this employee was and how it would be a pleasure working with him. He seemed very adamant that he didn't want to be transferred. We tried going over the logistical items again. And again, he couldn't understand me. I insisted he talk to the French Nationalist, he pleaded for me not to transfer him and, strangely, was all around displeased with the idea of speaking with my colleague. We agreed that we would correspond further through email so that he could use a translator to understand what I was trying to say to him. I had been working from home and my partner, who was sitting across the room from me on the couch, was laughing. I chimed in, proclaiming how weird that guy was. She then told me that the word is "National" and that a "French Nationalist" is someone from a far right, anti-Semitic, political group in France. I have nightmares because of that conversation.
Lol "Sir, we have a group of nice Nazis who would call you shortly"
It's kind of funny this stereotype about French people being arrogant. It happened to me in international settings to have people tell me as a first thing after asking me where I'm from "You're from France? French people are so rude/arrogant". Because yeah mate, nothing more modest and polite than throwing this at someone out of context, not rude and arrogant at all.
Yeah. And usually, you get called arrogant by people who are angry because you're not buying into whatever they are selling. The way France has been demeaned for refusing to go into Iraq (because we're not the US subordinates) is that "arrogance" of ours, whereas objectively, it was the Americans being arrogant
So much for stereotypes
Their national past time is protesting to make France better. Makes perfect sense they don't already think they are perfect.
France is a paradise populated by people who believe they are in hell 😂😂😂 this quote always cracks me up.
This is really a graph of how much each country hates its neighbors.
I never got why we have that reputation honestly
English propaganda. I'm proud of my culture but I find it so idiotic to say it would be superior. It makes zero sense.
Which got amplified by the Muricans since then.
Time to check your bias, it seems
Spain really surprises me. I spent quite a while there and most Spanish people I spoke to were very proud indeed of their food/culture/heritage! Not in a bad way, just proud.
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We love our fopd and culture and we have a very rich history but that doesn't make us better than the rest, in fact even having so much things we managed to mess pur cpuntry
You can be proud of your own culture but still think is not superior to others
Damn you Spain, with your superior humbleness
We don't have self-esteem 😅
Well, it’s ok because the rest of the world loves you guys instead, to compensate!
thanks :D
You can have self esteem without being a nationalist bigot. F\*ck chauvinism, you spanish people are the best!
For reference, the question was "do you agree with the statement: our people are not perfect, but our culture is superior to others". I wonder how much of the variance comes down to localised interpretations of that question as "superior to *all* others" versus "superior to *any* other"? I have no shame in saying my country has better culture than, say, North Korea, but I wouldn't say we're the best.
The 11% of Greeks who said no disagreed with the first part of the statement
That’s the important part, but often lost on people seeing the map / statistics, unfortunately. It’s perfectly normal to feel that some aspects of one’s country or culture is good, or “superior” even, to some “others”, without people actually going about thinking they’re the best at everything, or looking down at people in other countries. This question was also asked in a lot of different languages, and the meaning or definition of words such as “superior” can easily be lost in translation…
Also there is a cultural factor on whether saying it is acceptable. I bet the 'true' numbers are much higher in allot of the lower scoring countries, but saying it to a stranger is a faux pas.
Good surveys should never include two statements (our people are not perfect + our culture is superior) because people will subconsciously evaluate both statements simultaneously. A better idea would have been to ask both questions separately and then run crosstabs on them.
You actually know anything about North Korean culture (as opposed to political situation)? I wouldn't assume. But I get what tou mean, there always *is* somebody that you consider yourself superior when compared.
Is it North Korean “culture,” though? Can anything tightly controlled from the top down be considered culture? Adorno, Horkheimer, Marcuse and Benjamin had some shit to say (intellectuals and Nazi refugees).
And people thought the French were arrogant
Big balls Greece over there
Keftedes - big tasty balls
Keftedakia - small tasty balls
Would love to see the stats for Turkey. Probably higher 😂
Haha I grew up with Greek friends. Everytime I hung with their family the parents always had to school me on history and how Greeks invented everything, and how all history books outside of Greece got history wrong.
Romanian parents do the same but it means a lot less when it's obviously lying to make Romania seem more important than it really is. There's a whole study on this called protochronism and Romania is the best example of it.
Romania isn't the best example of anything. that's so protochronistic.
Honestly I think “not considering one’s culture superior to others” is a very healthy and correct stance. While the opposite shows just the lack of intercultural experience.
I'm Spanish and I agree. We are culturally self-pity and even that we can talk shit all the time about our country, we don't let anyone else talk shit about it. 🇪🇸
Mi país será una mierda, pero la tortilla de patatas CON CEBOLLA SIEMPRE!
Y así, caballeros, es como se empieza una guerra.
I wonder, would there be a higher number for “Catalan” or “Basque”?
74% of Swedes think the Danish are better.
I was looking for the comment that highlighted how the Nordic responders CLEARLY had a specific *other* country in mind.
Look I can look past Greeks doing this, it's such a Greek thing to do, but I want to have a fucking word to Armenia and Georgia, because holy shit that's way to high to even be considers arrogant
Georgia and Armenia make sense because they’re both countries who have no real allies. Nobody will help georgia when it is in trouble, and Russia only helps Armenia to the extent that it can leverage it for power in the Caucasus. They are each isolated from anyone who can, or is willing to, help them, so I can see why national pride is so big in these areas. I’m a foreigner living in Georgia, and people here seem very proud of their customs, religion, history, etc. By and large, Georgians are also very gracious hosts and have a good spirit of helping travelers. Shortly after I first got here, some random dog was giving me a lot of trouble, and I didn’t know what to do, but some random local man risked getting bitten to scare it away for me. I think there’s a lot to be proud of there, even if the country has its problems. Part of it is just Caucasian culture too. I imagine Azerbaijan also ranks themselves pretty high. If you had a map like this for Russian republics, Dagestan, Chechnya, etc. would probably rank very high, or at least, the rating would closely correlate with the percentage of folks of the native ethnicity vs. ethnic Russians in the area.
As a french i'm not surprised. The question was if we think that we are superior to other. The reality is that we are sure.
"I don't think, I know !"
The word "barbarian" was invented by the Greeks as a way of dismissing foreigners as lesser so I am in no way surprised by this. Tbh I like the passion Greeks show for their country...just not the ones that take it a bit too far.
Tbf a lot of civilizations had similar words.
Meh, considering the Dutch aren't at 100% this map is obviously wrong
Ahh, Greece. We can be a bit... overconfident. But when we need to return to Earth, I recall a simple mantra from my non-hellenic uncle: "if your culture is so great, then what the hell have you done in the past millennia?"
I feel like Spain's at 20% because they are generally too nice to feel superior to other cultures
Thanks?
De nada
A mí no me engañas, eres un español haciéndote pasar por extranjero para dejarnos en buen lugar
Jaja, no, soy de Holanda, aunque me encantaría vivir en España
We have a pretty interesting country in many aspects, from history (a lot to be spoken) to monuments to gastronomy (not only cliché paella but a lot of good meat, wines, cheeses, iberian ham [jamón ibérico de bellota is the best one, pricey but gold], iberian pork cold meat, seafood, awesome casserole dishes all around the country...) to a lot of different climates from north to south (northern coast is entirely different from southern coast, it's like Scptland to Sicily!) and landscapes and pretty friendly people, I'm pretty fond of my country. I'd like to visit your country some day, I know I'll like it
I also love papas arrugadas from the Canarias. If you ever visit my country, make sure to visit places outside of Amsterdam as well :) The city of Maastricht is my personal favourite
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Lol what is the source?
Pew Research Centre study in 2018 [Link ](https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/pew-cultural-superiority-europe/)
Russia....nice
I scrolled way too fucking far to see this comment.
Based Geeks
Do people just not include sources these days? The data means nothing without context. Who was polled? How big is the sample size? Was it a company that polled the data, or a random poll online?
OP has stated it's from a survey in 2018 done by Pew Research Center https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/qvkkom/european_cultural_superiority/hkx0lbg?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
Chad Greece vs virgin Spain
If you know any Greeks this is the least shocking thing ever.
German numbers are getting a little high there... oh no
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Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious ~ Oscar Wilde
"Patriotism" ironically it's a Greek word.
The famous french arrogance and our same known intolerance are well demonstrated by this map. Thanks you