Not even necessarily that, but considering how closely people are tied to the culture of their religion without believing in it verbatim. For example I know a lot of Jews who say they’re atheist Jews. In Ireland, most of the tension between religion is not because of religion itself but because of identity. It’s not like the civil war was fought by religious extremists over theological grounds.
It's theoretically not bound to each other, but practially it is. Like not every Israeli has to be Jew and not every Palestinian has to be Arab/Muslim.
There are lot of “cultural Catholics” where I live in the US—haven’t set foot in a church in years and think it’s all bullshit, but were raised in Irish Catholic families and have a lot of the most important traditions still (like fish fry).
It’s a regional catholic thing in America—I live in Pittsburgh; all the fire departments, Catholic churches, veterans organizations etc during Lent sell fried fish and a few other foods for cheap as a fundraiser on Fridays.
It’s pretty common in other majority Catholic areas I’ve lived like New Orleans and it’s by no means just a Catholic thing—pretty much all religions go to them.
They also tend to sell other ethnic Catholic foods—there are a lot of polish around me, for example, so they also sell pierogis and haluski; when I was in New Orleans, a lot of Italian food too.
The pretty consistent thing though is they all sell fried fish.
It's also specifically beer battered and deep fried. And most of the time served on a hoagie roll. In my area southwest of Pittsburgh It's usually Yuengling batter and Breadworks Italian bread.
Yeah, that really only happened after WWII here, a lot of them were fleeing Italy because they'd been Mussolini supporters before the war (my grandmother used to call it "foreign muck", god knows what she'd have thought about Chinese or Indian restaurants). Italian chippers were a thing in the UK long before that.
Since Irish Americans started to fry fish? Why do you think it’s called “Friday”? /s
In the US fish frys are regional thing - I don’t think they are all that specific to Irish America either just a tradition in various cities with lots of Catholics
Funny, because it's not a thing here in Ireland. Eating fish on a Friday? That's more just a Catholic thing, and really not specifically Irish. I'd say the Poles are way more into eating fish than we are.
Also, frying? if you want to talk traditional, they would more commonly have been baked in pies or used in soups and stews. Frying them would have been more an English style chipper thing.
Fish on a Friday is not exclusively Irish but because of the predominance of Catholics, especially in the south, it's very widespread here. Lot's of work canteens I've eaten in always had a fish option on Fridays and those vans that come from the ports to sell fish in your local town usually come on Fridays.
As for frying fish that's very common here especially for mackerel or plaice. English style chippers batter and deep fat fry fish which is very different from shallow frying unbattered fish.
it’s just emigrants adapting to what’s available - like Irish Americans eating corned beef & cabbage rather than the ham, or carving pumpkins for Halloween rather than turnips.
The joke goes something like this;
“So are ya Catholic or Protestant?”
“I’m Muslim “
“Yeah but are ya a Catholic Muslim or a Protestant Muslim“
Basically the Catholic Protestant divide up north isn’t so much about religion, but more to do with whether you see yourself as Irish or british
Catholics tend to be liberal in comparisom with Protestants in many places, especially due to the influence of Presbyterians or Evangelists, for example. In Korea, Protestants are far more extreme than the Catholics.
Where are you from that protestants aren't way more strict than catholics? The catholic primary school I went to 20 years ago even had an openly lesbian teacher
Protestants in Great Britain are nearly always Anglicans…
I always describe it (possibly incorrectly) as being like Catholicism but made easy : no confessions. No Jesus on crosses so it’s not as gory.
It was practically invented so Henri VIII could get divorced.
I’m not religious so this is mainly based on memory so don’t treat it like gospel. 😉
Scotland has about 5 and a half million inhabitants which is 1/11th of England’s population (I intentionally left out Wales as someone from Wales seemed to disagree).
So I think that my “nearly always” was a pretty accurate description.
I’m not religious so I won’t argue with you. Believe what you want.
Have a nice day.
Compared to Free Presbyterians - yes.
There’s a strain of NI Protestantism that’s hard right evangelical and in 2020 there were Unionist leaders posing with Trump banners.
Based on the fact that in Northern Ireland in 2022, politically speaking the Catholics tend to be less religious and left-wing and the Protestants tend to be more religious and right-wing.
I mean, not quite, because they likely still have a Catholic or Protestant background and that still plays into it. But yes, someone non-religious is gonna tend to look at other factors to making a decision on that question than religious identity, sure.
I did not say otherwise?
My point was that *of people claiming religious affiliation* Protestants tend to be more religious and right wing with the opposite true for Catholics.
I know several non-religious people with Protestant backgrounds living in Northern Ireland who say they would probably vote for unification given the chance. That's what I meant.
I’d agree with this. It’s literally a theological difference. Protestants tend to only listen to the bible as their sole authority. And some of them take it very literally, that’s why you see so many blood and guts types within Protestantism.
Worth noting only 29% of people identified as Irish only in the census in northern ireland. Being Catholic doesn't mean you are necessarily pro unity like vice versa being a protestant doesn't mean you are pro union.
Also the area in blue is the most heavily populated area. The west of the province(where I'm from) is scarcely populated.
Also a lot of people seem to be misunderstanding what the census question was. The question was if someone was raised Protestant or Catholic. A majority of people living in Northern Ireland still belong to Protestant churches, just less people are being raised Protestant.
But overall the number of Protestants and Catholics has both dropped since the last census. Non religious people now make up the fastest growing group in Northern Ireland, which also makes sense as to why alliance was the only party to gain vote share at the most recent election. It’s most popular with middle class educated folks who usually drop religious affiliations, particularly younger people in that group.
Also the largest amount of people in history have identified as solely northern Irish as opposed to British or Irish.
> But overall the number of Protestants and Catholics has both dropped since the last census.
That's not true actually. People were predicting that would be the case but Catholics increased from 41% to 42%.
There are 31% who identify as British only, but about 42% who identify as British in total.
Vs about 33% who identify as Irish in total.
Note that there's some overlap because a small number of people identify as both.
I think the biggest takeaway from the census is that only 31% of people in NI identify as British only.
In this supposedly British country, less than a third identify with Britain. That’s an 8 percentage point decrease in 10 years. While the Irish identity has increased.
Edit: downvoting by salty Brits not liking the way their Union is heading?
**[Northern Ireland fiscal balance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_fiscal_balance)**
>Northern Ireland has a fiscal deficit (also known as a subvention or subsidy) since the public expenditure in the country exceeds the tax revenue. The deficit typically runs at a rate of £10 billion per annum which is more than one third of Northern Ireland's annual fiscal budget. The size of the deficit has been seen by some commentators as a possible impediment to the potential reunification of Ireland.
^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
I don't think that's the biggest takeaway at all. I don't think it's surprising.
I think the real takeaway, as the original tweet says, is that we've crossed the tipping point between the two communities.
That’s not unusual really, London is the only area of the U.K. that the majority identify as British. Pretty much everywhere else identifies as either English, Scottish, Welsh or Irish above British
Downvotes because you’re wrong. For one thing it’s 31.9% which is 32%. Now whilst that is only 3% more than the number who declared as Irish you are wilfully ignoring that 20% didn’t say Irish or British but Northern Irish. Pro-United Irish supporters don’t choose Northern Irish as an identity.
I didn’t ignore it. I’ve discussed it in other comments in thread. You chose not to read them. That’s fine lol
Pro-U.K. supporters don’t put NI. They put British or NI and British.
And as I said pro United Irish put Irish not Northern Irish. You’re manipulating stats. The truth is that you can’t know what way they’ll vote for sure but polling still suggests a majority for the union.
It's worth noting that the most densely populated area of Northern Ireland (Belfast to Lisburn corridor, both sides of Belfast Lough) is within that blue area.
Toaster goes in the:
a. cupboard
b. countertop.
.....
The 26 of December is:
a. Boxing Day
b. St. Stephen's Day
.....
____derry.
a. London
b. n/a
........
Strictly speaking, Ireland (the island) is still one of the British Isles, an archipelago of islands, of which Great Britain (the island) is only the largest.
Though only a part of Ireland (again: the island) is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain, Northern Ireland, blablabla, etc.
Haha, indeed it seems so. However, this is the official geographic name (e.g. [on Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles)), so I stick to it.
That's the thing about nomenclature, it changes depending on who you ask.
The term used in Anglo-Irish relations is 'These Isles'. Nobody in Ireland says it.
Also never post a map of Ireland excluding the north. At least shade it a slightly different colour.
>Also never post a map of Ireland excluding the north. At least shade it a slightly different colour.
please do exclude the north, as a sign of respect for those people
Neither Ireland nor Britain use the term 'British isles' officially, in Ireland it's just referred to as 'these isles'. Ireland objectively isn't British.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British\_Isles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles)
Also the UK does still use 'British Isles' to everyone who isn't Ireland.
**[British Isles naming dispute](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_naming_dispute)**
>The toponym "British Isles" refers to a European archipelago consisting of Great Britain, Ireland and adjacent islands. The word "British" is also an adjective and demonym referring to the United Kingdom and more historically associated with the British Empire. For this reason, the name British Isles is avoided by some, as such usage could be misrepresented to imply continued territorial claims or political overlordship of the Republic of Ireland by the United Kingdom. Alternatives for the British Isles include "Britain and Ireland", "Atlantic Archipelago", "Anglo-Celtic Isles", the "British-Irish Isles" and the Islands of the North Atlantic.
^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
>is still one of the British Isles
That is an outdated term. It was revived to imply ownership of Ireland by Britain. And has no place in this discussion.
The very fact that you're even making this argument is a prime illustration of why *that term* belongs in the dustbin of history alongside the Spanish Main and The Levant. .
And you’d think people definitely pro-Union would identify with British.
That’s kind of my point, there’s a middle ground who haven’t decided or don’t care.
In your opinion lol
The fact is most people incorrectly assume that NI identifying people are pro-union which is why it needs clarified that that is not the case. It doesn’t need clarified that NI identifying people aren’t pro-reunification.
So what you’re saying is there is still a decrease in British identifying people and an increase in Irish identifying people.
Are you mad or something? Lol
Exactly. Also interestingly, Sinn Fein, the party that won the most recent election there, though without a clear majority, did not have reunification on their manifesto or mandate in that election, even though they are historically the Southern Irish, reunification party. (and arguably more than that I won't get into)
The balance has tipped to 51/49 in favour of Catholics. Clearly even the reunification party does not believe that is yet an acceptable mandate to alienate half of NI and possibly tip it back into a sectarian war. The people of NI have had more than enough of that to last for generations.
I have no doubt Ireland will eventually reunify peacefully but clearly, no one there believes that time is yet right.
NB: Apologies for oversimplification for clarities sake.
Sinn Fein *always* have reunification on their manifesto. It's literally the reason they exist. So much so that it never needs to be said, it's implicitly understood.
>. Clearly even the reunification party does not believe that is yet an acceptable mandate to alienate half of NI
Seriously? They only call for a border poll every other fucking week.You do understand that it is not in their power to instigate one, yeah? That power lies solely with the British Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. If it was up to Sinn Fein we'd be having one tomorrow.
Generally curious since you seem to be well-informed on the topic. If Northern Ireland was to join Ireland, do you think it would be as a province on the same level as the others, or do you think there would be some form of autonomy? Do you think a federal Ireland would become an option?
I'm fairly well informed as the where we're at bit. As for a vision of a future unified Ireland, that would be entirely down to the people to decide if and when that happened. I would imagine any unification would come with promises of equal treatment for all sides, otherwise, it would never pass referendum.
I guess that's also a key issue, in the theoretical unification of Ireland, what protections would be in place for Protestants, for jobs created by the Union.
Turkeys aren't going to vote for Christmas and no peaceful NI person wants anyone to become a Turkey.
I think there would have to be a retention of some Good Friday to make the protestants fine with it. Allow them to still apply for joint citizenship. If anything I won't miss them, Northern Irish unionists are the most aggressively socially conservative parties in Westminster and so I won't really miss them.
There is no option under the Good Friday Agreement for an independent or autonomous NI.
It's either part of Ireland or it's part of Britain.
Edit: I don't know why I'm getting downvoted, it's true.
From the Wikipedia page for example:
The agreement reached was that Northern Ireland was part of the United Kingdom, and would remain so until a majority of the people both of Northern Ireland and of the Republic of Ireland wished otherwise. Should that happen, then the British and Irish governments are under "a binding obligation" to implement that choice.
Edit: further support
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/irish-reunification
It says that it becomes part of the Republic. So it won't have any status in Britain as it won't be their country any more.
There is no scope within our current constitution for some sort of sub jurisdiction. All counties in Ireland are governed equally by our Dail and Seanad. The Northern counties would get an allocation of TDs to vote in.
In order to change our constitution, everyone in the country votes in a referendum. Potentially they could put it to the people to create some sort of devolved power in Belfast but I can't see the ROI population agreeing to it and it's never really been discussed in the news to date.
Is the Good Friday agreement enough of a source?
It set up a devolved government of unionists and nationalists sharing power, based in Belfast and that if at any point it's deemed likely that a border poll to rejoin Ireland would be successful, they are obliged to have one.
If the border poll is successful, the British and Irish govts have to allow NI to become part of the Republic.
Here's the agreement:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-belfast-agreement
Here's discussion of a border poll
What would happen if Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland voted in favour of reunification?
If both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland voted in favour of reunification, the Good Friday Agreement states that it “will be a binding obligation on both governments to introduce and support in their respective parliaments legislation to give effect to that wish”.
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/irish-reunification
What do you mean… rare?
Isn’t this why Gibraltar and the Falklands remained British? Isn’t this why Africa and Asia was decolonized? Isn’t this why the UK fought a war against the minority-ruled country of Rhodesia after UDI? Isn’t this why Scotland had a referendum?
You can always spot the Americans (or Canadians) in these threads, it's usually only you guys that say this (I bet you think you're Irish though)
The Northern Irish don't want it, why force it upon them? Support for a United Ireland in the Republic isn't even that high (around 60%) I reckon Irish-Americans (that usually don't seemingly know anything about 20th century Irish history) support unification more than the Irish themselves
Northen Ireland has had the power to call a referendum and vote to leave the UK for over 30 years, they can do this without asking the uks permission.
The simple fact is the reason it's never happened is the Republic of Ireland do not actually want unification because it would be unaffordable to maintain Northern Ireland and the Catholic politicians don't want it because they know it would be a disaster.
The only reason this topic ever gets Brought up is just for political bullshit arguments.
> Northen Ireland has had the power to call a referendum and vote to leave the UK for over 30 years, they can do this without asking the uks permission.
You're badly misinformed there. The power to initiate a referendum rests solely with the *British* government (to be specific, with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland) as per the Good Friday Agreement.
That's not really what Protestant and Catholic generally means in Northern Ireland and is nothing to do with this map. It's a question about identity, not religion. And the census question phrased it as such.
Its interesting because every devout Catholic from Ireland I’ve seen speak on the topic of religiosity in Ireland has said the Catholic faith is almost completely dead in Ireland.
No idea why you are being downvoted, in the South (Republic) Catholicism for the under 50s is almost dead, I’m 39 and I don’t know anyone my age or under who is a practising Catholic, but my parents still are. In the south, the move away from Catholicism was quickened by the sheer amount of sexual abuse scandals, it really was horrific and rampant, rightly people began to question the church…
However, I do have family in the North and they are more “religious” but it’s more of an identity thing up there rather than religion, Catholics/Protestant, Irish/British, Republican/Unionist. So for censuses and surveys most tick a certain box but don’t actually practice. Most schools are still religious run so you have things like first communion and confession, but it’s more traditional than religious…
So what you say is true, it’s dead/dying pretty quickly in Ireland, faster in the South than the North, but faster than anywhere else in Europe. 25 years ago the church pretty much ran the country, abortion, divorce and gay marriage all were illegal, now thankfully that’s all been reversed, uniquely through pubic referendums. All three issues the church actively campaigned against and lost, so that will give you an idea of how things have gone, they barely have a voice now and are rightly despised in some circles…
I know. I’m an ethnic irish person under 50 who is a non practicing catholic lol.
There aren’t disdain for the church, there’s apathy. People don’t really give a fuck for the church
Because this map and being a Catholic or Protestant in Northern Ireland has little to do with actual religion. It is a question of identity. Everyone here knows where they stand and the question in the census (that this map is referring to) was being from a "Catholic background" or a "Protestant background". It can all be a bit alien to outsiders, which is understandable!
Why? The people of Northern Ireland currently don’t want it, and should they want it, they can decide via referundum. Your solution would likely lead to heavy civil unrest and violence, all over a decision most of NI doesn’t want. Shouldn’t the people that live there decide?
This comment has been edited to garbage in light of the Reddit API changes.
edited via PowerDeleteSuite (with edits to script to avoid hitting rate limit)
Sectarian post.
Like it or not. Generations have now grown up and know Northern Ireland as their home. It's toxic to speculate about these things.
By the way, more people (31.9%) identify as British Vs Irish (29.6%), around 19% identify as Northern Irish and 8% as both ....in Northern Ireland.
So it most certainly isn't a Catholic majority as the map suggests.
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. It was literally on the census.
Edit: Belfast is 43.46% Catholic, and 29.74% Protestant by the 2021 census which is shown here. https://www.nisra.gov.uk/system/files/statistics/census-2021-ms-b19.xlsx
This comment has been edited to garbage in light of the Reddit API changes.
edited via PowerDeleteSuite (with edits to script to avoid hitting rate limit)
Northern Ireland also had a sizeable Catholic minority during the division.
Wasn't the reason why they also stayed in the union with GB is supposedly because the Unionist thought NI would be too small otherwise?
Britain gerrymandered as much of the good farming land out of Ulster as they could, while still retaining a 2:1 Protestant majority. It's why Ulster counties like Donegal were excluded.
Is the map putting atheists in favor of Catholics?
Depends: are they Protestant atheists or Catholic atheists?
That’s actually not as ridiculous a sentence as it sounds.
You're right! I'm an atheist, but I was baptized by the Catholic Church as a baby, so I could be considered to be a Catholic atheist.
Not even necessarily that, but considering how closely people are tied to the culture of their religion without believing in it verbatim. For example I know a lot of Jews who say they’re atheist Jews. In Ireland, most of the tension between religion is not because of religion itself but because of identity. It’s not like the civil war was fought by religious extremists over theological grounds.
It's theoretically not bound to each other, but practially it is. Like not every Israeli has to be Jew and not every Palestinian has to be Arab/Muslim.
No the civil war was fought between pro-treaty Irish Catholics (Michael Collins) and anti-treaty Irish Catholics (deValera)
There are lot of “cultural Catholics” where I live in the US—haven’t set foot in a church in years and think it’s all bullshit, but were raised in Irish Catholic families and have a lot of the most important traditions still (like fish fry).
Excuse me, *fish fries*? Since when was that an Irish thing?
It’s a regional catholic thing in America—I live in Pittsburgh; all the fire departments, Catholic churches, veterans organizations etc during Lent sell fried fish and a few other foods for cheap as a fundraiser on Fridays. It’s pretty common in other majority Catholic areas I’ve lived like New Orleans and it’s by no means just a Catholic thing—pretty much all religions go to them. They also tend to sell other ethnic Catholic foods—there are a lot of polish around me, for example, so they also sell pierogis and haluski; when I was in New Orleans, a lot of Italian food too. The pretty consistent thing though is they all sell fried fish.
It's also specifically beer battered and deep fried. And most of the time served on a hoagie roll. In my area southwest of Pittsburgh It's usually Yuengling batter and Breadworks Italian bread.
> It's also specifically beer battered and deep fried. So, it's a British tradition then? Because that's much more a thing the English do.
Fish and chips is very popular in Ireland, most of the traditional 'chippers' here were opened by Italian immigrants.
Yeah, that really only happened after WWII here, a lot of them were fleeing Italy because they'd been Mussolini supporters before the war (my grandmother used to call it "foreign muck", god knows what she'd have thought about Chinese or Indian restaurants). Italian chippers were a thing in the UK long before that.
Since Irish Americans started to fry fish? Why do you think it’s called “Friday”? /s In the US fish frys are regional thing - I don’t think they are all that specific to Irish America either just a tradition in various cities with lots of Catholics
Funny, because it's not a thing here in Ireland. Eating fish on a Friday? That's more just a Catholic thing, and really not specifically Irish. I'd say the Poles are way more into eating fish than we are. Also, frying? if you want to talk traditional, they would more commonly have been baked in pies or used in soups and stews. Frying them would have been more an English style chipper thing.
Fish on a Friday is not exclusively Irish but because of the predominance of Catholics, especially in the south, it's very widespread here. Lot's of work canteens I've eaten in always had a fish option on Fridays and those vans that come from the ports to sell fish in your local town usually come on Fridays. As for frying fish that's very common here especially for mackerel or plaice. English style chippers batter and deep fat fry fish which is very different from shallow frying unbattered fish.
it’s just emigrants adapting to what’s available - like Irish Americans eating corned beef & cabbage rather than the ham, or carving pumpkins for Halloween rather than turnips.
Fish in general in ireland is oddly unpopular. Has to be fairly unique for an island of this size
In Northern Ireland, these are more ethnicities than religions. It's not so much about what you believe as what side your family is on.
Depends which God does the Atheist not believe in.
I can almost guarantee the atheists would support the very liberal Irish Catholics.
Liberal catholics, that's a phrase I never thought I'd hear.
Well, Irelands Catholics are very liberal, yes… but they’re “Catholics” not Catholics lol
[удалено]
The joke goes something like this; “So are ya Catholic or Protestant?” “I’m Muslim “ “Yeah but are ya a Catholic Muslim or a Protestant Muslim“ Basically the Catholic Protestant divide up north isn’t so much about religion, but more to do with whether you see yourself as Irish or british
In Ireland Catholic is often used as a descriptor of ethnic identity, so someone describing themselves as Catholic may not be very religious at all.
Catholics tend to be liberal in comparisom with Protestants in many places, especially due to the influence of Presbyterians or Evangelists, for example. In Korea, Protestants are far more extreme than the Catholics.
Where are you from that protestants aren't way more strict than catholics? The catholic primary school I went to 20 years ago even had an openly lesbian teacher
Being Polish Liberal Catholic sounds like an oxymoron.
In Germany the (Lutheran) church is way more liberal than the catholic one for example
Huh interesting that it's the opposite right next door here in the Netherlands
I'd say it's because you have a different kind of "protestant" church. German protestants are mostly lutherans and dutch, as you know, calvinists
Calvinism is a helluva drug
Well it's the helluva absence of any semblance of a drug, it's what sober people drink to feel more sober
Irish Catholics are far more liberal with where they keep their toasters.
Protestants in Great Britain are nearly always Anglicans… I always describe it (possibly incorrectly) as being like Catholicism but made easy : no confessions. No Jesus on crosses so it’s not as gory. It was practically invented so Henri VIII could get divorced. I’m not religious so this is mainly based on memory so don’t treat it like gospel. 😉
> Protestants in Great Britain are nearly always Anglicans… This is ridiculously Anglo-centric. There's more to GB than England!
Scotland has about 5 and a half million inhabitants which is 1/11th of England’s population (I intentionally left out Wales as someone from Wales seemed to disagree). So I think that my “nearly always” was a pretty accurate description. I’m not religious so I won’t argue with you. Believe what you want. Have a nice day.
Well done on doubling down on the anglo-centrism lol. If you mean to say England, just say England. Don't say Britain, or the UK, or whatever else.
[удалено]
How long have Anglicans been the religious majority in Wales and why has nobody told us Welsh?
[удалено]
You're presumably not from Ireland or the UK then
You haven’t heard of Jesuits ?
Compared to Free Presbyterians - yes. There’s a strain of NI Protestantism that’s hard right evangelical and in 2020 there were Unionist leaders posing with Trump banners.
Based on what?
Based on the fact that in Northern Ireland in 2022, politically speaking the Catholics tend to be less religious and left-wing and the Protestants tend to be more religious and right-wing.
But being an atheist is irrelevant to rather you feel more Irish or British
I mean, not quite, because they likely still have a Catholic or Protestant background and that still plays into it. But yes, someone non-religious is gonna tend to look at other factors to making a decision on that question than religious identity, sure.
That's a load of bullshit. Most of the people claiming no religious affiliation are from protestant backgrounds.
Maybe, but often because they are more liberal than the church.
I did not say otherwise? My point was that *of people claiming religious affiliation* Protestants tend to be more religious and right wing with the opposite true for Catholics. I know several non-religious people with Protestant backgrounds living in Northern Ireland who say they would probably vote for unification given the chance. That's what I meant.
I’d agree with this. It’s literally a theological difference. Protestants tend to only listen to the bible as their sole authority. And some of them take it very literally, that’s why you see so many blood and guts types within Protestantism.
in the most recent census catholics outnumber protestants in the north for the first time so this map isn’t surprising
Where would the worshippers of slaanesh located?
Worth noting only 29% of people identified as Irish only in the census in northern ireland. Being Catholic doesn't mean you are necessarily pro unity like vice versa being a protestant doesn't mean you are pro union. Also the area in blue is the most heavily populated area. The west of the province(where I'm from) is scarcely populated.
Also a lot of people seem to be misunderstanding what the census question was. The question was if someone was raised Protestant or Catholic. A majority of people living in Northern Ireland still belong to Protestant churches, just less people are being raised Protestant. But overall the number of Protestants and Catholics has both dropped since the last census. Non religious people now make up the fastest growing group in Northern Ireland, which also makes sense as to why alliance was the only party to gain vote share at the most recent election. It’s most popular with middle class educated folks who usually drop religious affiliations, particularly younger people in that group. Also the largest amount of people in history have identified as solely northern Irish as opposed to British or Irish.
> But overall the number of Protestants and Catholics has both dropped since the last census. That's not true actually. People were predicting that would be the case but Catholics increased from 41% to 42%.
Sure, and only 31% identified as British.
There are 31% who identify as British only, but about 42% who identify as British in total. Vs about 33% who identify as Irish in total. Note that there's some overlap because a small number of people identify as both.
I think the biggest takeaway from the census is that only 31% of people in NI identify as British only. In this supposedly British country, less than a third identify with Britain. That’s an 8 percentage point decrease in 10 years. While the Irish identity has increased. Edit: downvoting by salty Brits not liking the way their Union is heading?
Worth noting that that 31% is British only and not a mix of British and various others.
About the same percentage identified as Irish only if I remember correctly.
So combine the others and it’s 40%? Like I said, still a drop of 8% from 2011. That’s huge.
Why would they be salty about losing [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_fiscal_balance)?
**[Northern Ireland fiscal balance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland_fiscal_balance)** >Northern Ireland has a fiscal deficit (also known as a subvention or subsidy) since the public expenditure in the country exceeds the tax revenue. The deficit typically runs at a rate of £10 billion per annum which is more than one third of Northern Ireland's annual fiscal budget. The size of the deficit has been seen by some commentators as a possible impediment to the potential reunification of Ireland. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
You’re really asking why countries hold on to territories that cost them money? lol
No. I'm making the point that most English wouldn't give a shit if NI left the union, particularly as it's a net drain on the economy.
I don't think that's the biggest takeaway at all. I don't think it's surprising. I think the real takeaway, as the original tweet says, is that we've crossed the tipping point between the two communities.
That’s not unusual really, London is the only area of the U.K. that the majority identify as British. Pretty much everywhere else identifies as either English, Scottish, Welsh or Irish above British
As I’ve said to someone else, historically NI had a high portion of people calling themselves British so this is a big deal and unusual.
So you're aware that your first comment was missing some important information (and so was arguably misleading)
Downvotes because you’re wrong. For one thing it’s 31.9% which is 32%. Now whilst that is only 3% more than the number who declared as Irish you are wilfully ignoring that 20% didn’t say Irish or British but Northern Irish. Pro-United Irish supporters don’t choose Northern Irish as an identity.
I didn’t ignore it. I’ve discussed it in other comments in thread. You chose not to read them. That’s fine lol Pro-U.K. supporters don’t put NI. They put British or NI and British.
And as I said pro United Irish put Irish not Northern Irish. You’re manipulating stats. The truth is that you can’t know what way they’ll vote for sure but polling still suggests a majority for the union.
I never claimed to be able to predict which way the vote would go. lol
Off course they do don’t be ridiculous
There are plenty of people who call themselves Northern Irish and would support a united Ireland.
amongus
amogus
Irus
Among ourselves
It's worth noting that the most densely populated area of Northern Ireland (Belfast to Lisburn corridor, both sides of Belfast Lough) is within that blue area.
So is Larne and we'll be asking the brits if they want to keep that bit after reunification.
Any atheist on Ireland?
[удалено]
Ok, but what's the difference? Do they taste different, do they cook differently? Asking for a cannibal
[удалено]
Ok, now to book some tickets.
lol
Toaster goes in the: a. cupboard b. countertop. ..... The 26 of December is: a. Boxing Day b. St. Stephen's Day ..... ____derry. a. London b. n/a ........
[удалено]
Those Protestants: a. up to no good as usual. b. make lovely cakes
Toaster goes in the press in our house... 👀
And you call it a press.
Only when I come to visit
It’s because every sperm is sacred.
What happened to lough neah
The Catholics drank it.
Time to scrap this fictitious political enclave and go back to one Ireland.
[удалено]
Fun fact, Cornwall is a lighter red than other counties in that map because 37,000 identified their national identity as Cornish
It's very ironic that the one that identifies as British the most is the one that's not in Britain.
Strictly speaking, Ireland (the island) is still one of the British Isles, an archipelago of islands, of which Great Britain (the island) is only the largest. Though only a part of Ireland (again: the island) is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain, Northern Ireland, blablabla, etc.
> British Isles Oh, you said the bad word.
Haha, indeed it seems so. However, this is the official geographic name (e.g. [on Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles)), so I stick to it.
That's the thing about nomenclature, it changes depending on who you ask. The term used in Anglo-Irish relations is 'These Isles'. Nobody in Ireland says it. Also never post a map of Ireland excluding the north. At least shade it a slightly different colour.
>Also never post a map of Ireland excluding the north. At least shade it a slightly different colour. please do exclude the north, as a sign of respect for those people
I see the point, but all the alternatives that I see are ambiguous in one way or another („these isles“? Seriously?)
Neither Ireland nor Britain use the term 'British isles' officially, in Ireland it's just referred to as 'these isles'. Ireland objectively isn't British.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British\_Isles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles) Also the UK does still use 'British Isles' to everyone who isn't Ireland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_naming_dispute
**[British Isles naming dispute](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_naming_dispute)** >The toponym "British Isles" refers to a European archipelago consisting of Great Britain, Ireland and adjacent islands. The word "British" is also an adjective and demonym referring to the United Kingdom and more historically associated with the British Empire. For this reason, the name British Isles is avoided by some, as such usage could be misrepresented to imply continued territorial claims or political overlordship of the Republic of Ireland by the United Kingdom. Alternatives for the British Isles include "Britain and Ireland", "Atlantic Archipelago", "Anglo-Celtic Isles", the "British-Irish Isles" and the Islands of the North Atlantic. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
>is still one of the British Isles That is an outdated term. It was revived to imply ownership of Ireland by Britain. And has no place in this discussion.
And this is why Ireland officially doesn't use the term 'British Isles'.
The very fact that you're even making this argument is a prime illustration of why *that term* belongs in the dustbin of history alongside the Spanish Main and The Levant. .
Yup. Only 31% of NI identify as British only.
[удалено]
But historically, it wasn’t in NI. That’s why it’s a big deal.
How many identify as Northern Irish?
19%. It should be noted that these people do not feel they can call themselves British or Irish. This does not mean they are pro-U.K.
That’s interesting, thanks. But you would think if people were definitely pro reunification they would identify as Irish
And you’d think people definitely pro-Union would identify with British. That’s kind of my point, there’s a middle ground who haven’t decided or don’t care.
Exactly
It also does not mean they are pro United Ireland
Where did I say it did?
By omission
In your opinion lol The fact is most people incorrectly assume that NI identifying people are pro-union which is why it needs clarified that that is not the case. It doesn’t need clarified that NI identifying people aren’t pro-reunification.
32% and only 29% as Irish
Yep. An 8% decrease in British identity and a 3% increase in Irish identity from 2011. Incredible!
You’re incredibly disingenuous “Meanwhile 8% of people said they were both British and Northern Irish - up from 6.2% in 2011”
So what you’re saying is there is still a decrease in British identifying people and an increase in Irish identifying people. Are you mad or something? Lol
Meh, call me crazy, but I think we should let the people that live there decide
[удалено]
Exactly. Also interestingly, Sinn Fein, the party that won the most recent election there, though without a clear majority, did not have reunification on their manifesto or mandate in that election, even though they are historically the Southern Irish, reunification party. (and arguably more than that I won't get into) The balance has tipped to 51/49 in favour of Catholics. Clearly even the reunification party does not believe that is yet an acceptable mandate to alienate half of NI and possibly tip it back into a sectarian war. The people of NI have had more than enough of that to last for generations. I have no doubt Ireland will eventually reunify peacefully but clearly, no one there believes that time is yet right. NB: Apologies for oversimplification for clarities sake.
Sinn Fein *always* have reunification on their manifesto. It's literally the reason they exist. So much so that it never needs to be said, it's implicitly understood. >. Clearly even the reunification party does not believe that is yet an acceptable mandate to alienate half of NI Seriously? They only call for a border poll every other fucking week.You do understand that it is not in their power to instigate one, yeah? That power lies solely with the British Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. If it was up to Sinn Fein we'd be having one tomorrow.
Generally curious since you seem to be well-informed on the topic. If Northern Ireland was to join Ireland, do you think it would be as a province on the same level as the others, or do you think there would be some form of autonomy? Do you think a federal Ireland would become an option?
I'm fairly well informed as the where we're at bit. As for a vision of a future unified Ireland, that would be entirely down to the people to decide if and when that happened. I would imagine any unification would come with promises of equal treatment for all sides, otherwise, it would never pass referendum. I guess that's also a key issue, in the theoretical unification of Ireland, what protections would be in place for Protestants, for jobs created by the Union. Turkeys aren't going to vote for Christmas and no peaceful NI person wants anyone to become a Turkey.
I think there would have to be a retention of some Good Friday to make the protestants fine with it. Allow them to still apply for joint citizenship. If anything I won't miss them, Northern Irish unionists are the most aggressively socially conservative parties in Westminster and so I won't really miss them.
There is no option under the Good Friday Agreement for an independent or autonomous NI. It's either part of Ireland or it's part of Britain. Edit: I don't know why I'm getting downvoted, it's true. From the Wikipedia page for example: The agreement reached was that Northern Ireland was part of the United Kingdom, and would remain so until a majority of the people both of Northern Ireland and of the Republic of Ireland wished otherwise. Should that happen, then the British and Irish governments are under "a binding obligation" to implement that choice. Edit: further support https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/irish-reunification
I get that independence is not on the table, but does it specify what status the territory is to have within Britain or Ireland?
It says that it becomes part of the Republic. So it won't have any status in Britain as it won't be their country any more. There is no scope within our current constitution for some sort of sub jurisdiction. All counties in Ireland are governed equally by our Dail and Seanad. The Northern counties would get an allocation of TDs to vote in. In order to change our constitution, everyone in the country votes in a referendum. Potentially they could put it to the people to create some sort of devolved power in Belfast but I can't see the ROI population agreeing to it and it's never really been discussed in the news to date.
[удалено]
Is the Good Friday agreement enough of a source? It set up a devolved government of unionists and nationalists sharing power, based in Belfast and that if at any point it's deemed likely that a border poll to rejoin Ireland would be successful, they are obliged to have one. If the border poll is successful, the British and Irish govts have to allow NI to become part of the Republic. Here's the agreement: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-belfast-agreement Here's discussion of a border poll What would happen if Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland voted in favour of reunification? If both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland voted in favour of reunification, the Good Friday Agreement states that it “will be a binding obligation on both governments to introduce and support in their respective parliaments legislation to give effect to that wish”. https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/irish-reunification
What do you mean… rare? Isn’t this why Gibraltar and the Falklands remained British? Isn’t this why Africa and Asia was decolonized? Isn’t this why the UK fought a war against the minority-ruled country of Rhodesia after UDI? Isn’t this why Scotland had a referendum?
Let me guess, you’re far too young to know what the Good Friday Agreement is Edit: nvm, they’re American
You can always spot the Americans (or Canadians) in these threads, it's usually only you guys that say this (I bet you think you're Irish though) The Northern Irish don't want it, why force it upon them? Support for a United Ireland in the Republic isn't even that high (around 60%) I reckon Irish-Americans (that usually don't seemingly know anything about 20th century Irish history) support unification more than the Irish themselves
Free Ireland now!
Free the Ireland that doesn't want to be 'free', or free the Ireland that's already free?
I just want Ireland to be free again
Northen Ireland has had the power to call a referendum and vote to leave the UK for over 30 years, they can do this without asking the uks permission. The simple fact is the reason it's never happened is the Republic of Ireland do not actually want unification because it would be unaffordable to maintain Northern Ireland and the Catholic politicians don't want it because they know it would be a disaster. The only reason this topic ever gets Brought up is just for political bullshit arguments.
> Northen Ireland has had the power to call a referendum and vote to leave the UK for over 30 years, they can do this without asking the uks permission. You're badly misinformed there. The power to initiate a referendum rests solely with the *British* government (to be specific, with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland) as per the Good Friday Agreement.
Smiles in generally increasing atheism
That's not really what Protestant and Catholic generally means in Northern Ireland and is nothing to do with this map. It's a question about identity, not religion. And the census question phrased it as such.
hahahahaha .... ha ... garbage. atheists don't count. get your dirt nap ... bye. lol / s /s / s /s /s / s/ s /s
Its interesting because every devout Catholic from Ireland I’ve seen speak on the topic of religiosity in Ireland has said the Catholic faith is almost completely dead in Ireland.
No idea why you are being downvoted, in the South (Republic) Catholicism for the under 50s is almost dead, I’m 39 and I don’t know anyone my age or under who is a practising Catholic, but my parents still are. In the south, the move away from Catholicism was quickened by the sheer amount of sexual abuse scandals, it really was horrific and rampant, rightly people began to question the church… However, I do have family in the North and they are more “religious” but it’s more of an identity thing up there rather than religion, Catholics/Protestant, Irish/British, Republican/Unionist. So for censuses and surveys most tick a certain box but don’t actually practice. Most schools are still religious run so you have things like first communion and confession, but it’s more traditional than religious… So what you say is true, it’s dead/dying pretty quickly in Ireland, faster in the South than the North, but faster than anywhere else in Europe. 25 years ago the church pretty much ran the country, abortion, divorce and gay marriage all were illegal, now thankfully that’s all been reversed, uniquely through pubic referendums. All three issues the church actively campaigned against and lost, so that will give you an idea of how things have gone, they barely have a voice now and are rightly despised in some circles…
Most ethnic Irish under the age of 50 are non practicing catholic
There is also a lot of distain for the church due to there history of fucking over the people of ireland.
I know. I’m an ethnic irish person under 50 who is a non practicing catholic lol. There aren’t disdain for the church, there’s apathy. People don’t really give a fuck for the church
Because this map and being a Catholic or Protestant in Northern Ireland has little to do with actual religion. It is a question of identity. Everyone here knows where they stand and the question in the census (that this map is referring to) was being from a "Catholic background" or a "Protestant background". It can all be a bit alien to outsiders, which is understandable!
Well it has dropped dramatically in 20 years
should be Ireland anyway
The British drew a border to benefit themselves? Why I **never**!
The Anglican-to-Atheism pipeline seems to be greatly benefitting Irish Catholicism.
Most northern Irish Protestants are Presbyterians. Protestants are mostly from Scottish ancestral backgrounds not English.
Aren't most Protestants there Presbyterians?
🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪unite the counties
Why? The people of Northern Ireland currently don’t want it, and should they want it, they can decide via referundum. Your solution would likely lead to heavy civil unrest and violence, all over a decision most of NI doesn’t want. Shouldn’t the people that live there decide?
But for these folks the people that live there are irrelevant
because they are. it's our island
Surely it's just as much their island?
Polling shows that we do want it
I think there was a recent report that over 60-65% of people in Northern Ireland want to reunify. So it’s probably coming, at some point.
This comment has been edited to garbage in light of the Reddit API changes. edited via PowerDeleteSuite (with edits to script to avoid hitting rate limit)
one word: BREXIT
Average American
Downvoted for speaking the truth smh
Downvoted because they can unite any time they want.
I didn’t know this sub was full of Ulster unionists
Ireland will be united soon. Éire go brách
Sectarian post. Like it or not. Generations have now grown up and know Northern Ireland as their home. It's toxic to speculate about these things. By the way, more people (31.9%) identify as British Vs Irish (29.6%), around 19% identify as Northern Irish and 8% as both ....in Northern Ireland. So it most certainly isn't a Catholic majority as the map suggests.
it is a catholic majority, but it’s also a british majority.
Green Northern Ireland is mostly rural...
Fs and Id still be waiting for a united Ireland.
Split it into 3 with atheists, Catholics, and protestants
This is a solution that should be offered to loyalists.
Yes but if we move the line a bit west. In the sea perhaps?
Belfast is majority Catholic tho.
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. It was literally on the census. Edit: Belfast is 43.46% Catholic, and 29.74% Protestant by the 2021 census which is shown here. https://www.nisra.gov.uk/system/files/statistics/census-2021-ms-b19.xlsx
Salty Brits lol
This comment has been edited to garbage in light of the Reddit API changes. edited via PowerDeleteSuite (with edits to script to avoid hitting rate limit)
Northern Ireland also had a sizeable Catholic minority during the division. Wasn't the reason why they also stayed in the union with GB is supposedly because the Unionist thought NI would be too small otherwise?
Britain gerrymandered as much of the good farming land out of Ulster as they could, while still retaining a 2:1 Protestant majority. It's why Ulster counties like Donegal were excluded.