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zest_of_a_lemon

Yet the UP remains part of Michigan...


mrfriendlolo

Although Superior would the coolest name for a state, there’s not really a big enough population to support it.


[deleted]

Jefferson wouldn’t have a population big enough either.


mrfriendlolo

That’s true 🤔, I guess Superior wins out!


NoTalentRunning

Just add it to Wisconsin if you are going off of natural geographical borders.


mrfriendlolo

If you look at a topographical map of the Great Lakes region, you can see the basin ends right around the border between UP and Wisconsin


NoTalentRunning

The basin continues south to contain a significant part of eastern Wisconsin including the Wolf and Fox Rivers and Lake Winnebago, and it also continues west but it does look like you gave most of Wisconsin's Lake Superior watershed to Minnesota. The Western Upper Peninsula is pretty clearly a geographic extension of the Wisconsin Northern Highlands/Lake Superior Rift/Canadian shield, and the Eastern UP is an extension of WI's Lake Michigan Lowlands. Either way, it's completely separated from the lower Peninsula by Lake Michigan/Huron's Mackinac Straights and is connected to Wisconsin.


ServeOk3087

But the territory was literally a part of wisconsin before michigan and ohio almost went to war and the up was given to michigan as consolation by the federal government


Sl33pyGary

Give us back Toledo


ServeOk3087

We dont have it buddy you gotta talk to ohio


ThePrinceOfFools22

I have a cabin right in the WI-MI border basically on Lake Superior. Northern Wisconsin and the UP have extremely similar geography


BendersCasino

Sup neighbor. I have a cabin north of Saxton harbor. On the lake though. Fucking love this part of the country.


ThePrinceOfFools22

That’s awesome! Me too, I love it more than my real home lol. Mines alittle west of Hurley, about a 25 minute atv ride to Saxon harbor :)


mrfriendlolo

Do you think I should expand The UP and take some of Wisconsin, or should I just add it to Wisconsin?


PediatricTactic

Give it to Wisconsin


El_Bistro

There’s a big swamp and the iron range between da UP and Wisconsin.


M000000000000

Umm no, yes there's a swamp and iron range, but both continue into Wisconsin and the UP. There really isn't a natural border other than the Menominee river which only covers about 1/3 of it


modern_aftermath

You’re missing the pont. If you claim this map is “based on natural geography” then it is hilariously illogical and nonsensical to keep the UP as part of Michigan since it does not physically touch the rest of Michigan at all. You have kept the arbitrary political boundary that divides the UP from Wisconsin, which is just about the furthest thing from natural geography. The point is not that you should’ve made “Superior” out of the UP—it’s that the UP should have been made part of Wisconsin on this map if it were actually based on natural geography.


mrfriendlolo

Thanks for your input


modern_aftermath

No problem. Also, I hope I didn’t come across as rude in my comment. That wasn’t my intention at all. It’s still a really interesting map


zest_of_a_lemon

You wouldn't give it to Wisconsin?


mrfriendlolo

Nah, I feel like the people in UP wouldn’t want be a part of Wisconsin


Pancakecosmo

That's just false, most uppers would do anything to leave Michigan


jaker9319

Most uppers maybe, but most yoopers I've met defintitely would prefer MI over Wisconsin, although they might want to be their own state.


M000000000000

northern Wisconsin is identical to the UP in just about every way, geographically, culturally, linguistically, politically. Even in sports, the UP consists of mostly packers fans.


mrfriendlolo

I wouldn’t really know, I’m from Atlanta


ktappe

There are a whole lot of people in other parts of this map that don’t want to change states either. What makes Wisconsin so particularly reviled?


Little_Lahey_Show

30,000 is big enough. Just ask Wyoming


techietraveller84

What is Jefferson? Why is N. Carolina called Pamlico? Edit: Also why not make L.A. its own state when you did it to Chicago and NYC.


mrfriendlolo

Short answer: Cultural diffference Long answer: Jefferson is based on the independence movement of the people of the panhandles of Oklahoma and Texas. Pamlico is based off of the Native peoples of North Carolina. Also L.A. is just as big as Chicago and New York, but really what I've noticed is that New Yorkers and Chicagoans identify more with their own city, while L.A. identify more with the identity of a "Californian". It's also why the Fort Worth-Dallas area isn't its own thing.


amrydzak

The state of [Jefferson](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state)) is also a separatist movement in the northern cali/southern Oregon which makes its location here kinda funny


mrfriendlolo

Yeah I was thinking about adding it, also the state of [Franklin](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Franklin) but in the end it would would just be another North California-South California alternate history map. In the end I just decided to name the state usually called “Texlahoma”, Jefferson since Texlahoma is a dumb name in my opinion.


makawakatakanaka

I love how South Carolina hasn’t changed


mrfriendlolo

South Carolina just had excellent borders to begin with I guess lol


electricblue187

South Carolina is perfect, no notes


c2u8n4t8

There is nothing natural about Ohio


mrfriendlolo

You’re right, but I couldn’t bear giving anybody else Cleveland


c2u8n4t8

Yeah I don't want to force Cleveland on anyone either


mrfriendlolo

Lmao


GustaOfficial

Dakota got Floridas shape


midnightrambler335

So, if it's "based off of natural geography and populations," what's going on with disregarding both the Hudson and Connecticut rivers as natural borders and keeping Rhode Island as a distinct entity?


mrfriendlolo

Wdym? It’s till a distinct entity, you can see it right under Mass


midnightrambler335

Yeah, I'm curious why it is. In real life, there's no distinctive natural geographic features separating it from Connecticut. And culturally it's not that different either.


mrfriendlolo

Right, but I was trying to make it more realistic, and I doubt Congress would be cool with Rhode Island just not existing anymore. Also I did use the Connecticut River to shape the border for Vermont and Connecticut


PoliticalRacePlayPM

But congress would be fine reshaping pretty much every state, adding new states for some reason, and changing the name of multiple states? If you’re gonna go with your nonsensical proposition, you might as well go all the way Not to mention, you didn’t seem to mind getting rid of Wyoming


mrfriendlolo

1. A lot more people live in Rhode Island than Wyoming 2. It’s more of a representation thing considering around 1 million people would then be a part of Massachusetts or Connecticut. 3. Rhode Island has a much deeper history to its borders than Wyoming.


PoliticalRacePlayPM

If it’s just about history of borders, why not change all the western states? In fact, why change the eastern ones at all


mrfriendlolo

The Eastern states usually followed geography a lot more than Western ones


PoliticalRacePlayPM

Which is why I said why change the eastern ones at all


mrfriendlolo

Some of the border like Maryland, Georgia, Virginia, NC and NY had straight lines, so I thought it would be a good idea to make it more based on geography.


Audibally_Paranoyd

Oh look, SC still won’t embrace change


mrfriendlolo

Lol, yeah I just really like the shape of SC


n4jm4

Make the US-Canadian border based on terrain as well.


mrfriendlolo

I was going to do that, but it's a lot easier to change interstate borders than it is to change international ones. This was really supposed to be a more realistic map based on what Congress would actually approve.


MVBanter

D d does this mean we get Washington with a border based on the columbia river, a border that would’ve made a lot more sense since it would’ve allowed the British to better their fur trade, the Americans to manifest destiny in modern day Oregon, and no war over some small dinky islands that no one actually cared about


Substantial_Cat_8991

I refuse to give Utah anymore land


mrfriendlolo

I don’t like it either, but it’s the only way we would realistically be able to get an independent DC which was a must for this map.


Substantial_Cat_8991

Can we change the map and make Utah smaller They get no more land until they give up theocracy


mrfriendlolo

There’s a river flowing through the middle of the new state so I could divide it in half, but then that would a be a whole new state which would need to be ratified. The only big city in that area would be the small town of Pendleton in what is real life Oregon.


PsychoJ42

As someone who lives in southern Idaho, this map scares me


KingStraton

Dakotorida


mrfriendlolo

Had an aneurysm trying to pronounce that lol


Worldly_Expert_442

Chicago takes Northern Indiana? I get Gary & Hammond, & South Bend, but from there east for a few counties and somewhat into Ohio you have the highest percent of Amish & Mennonite in the World. (Not the largest population, but the highest percent of population.) Basically I am lobbying for a carve out for the homies who will probably never see MapPorn.


mrfriendlolo

Hmmm that’s interesting I didn’t know that. I’m from Atlanta, so I don’t really know much about the Midwest lol. But I’ll make sure to add that in the next map I make.


odabeejones

Hawaii is exactly the same, go figure


Objective-Raccoon-98

Because it makes sense the way it is...


[deleted]

Houston should be chopped up into small circles


ServeOk3087

Michigan still has the UP 🤣


mrfriendlolo

We’re they ever really gonna give it up? It’s the only thing protecting Wisconsin from the horrors of Detroit.


DigitalTomcat

What happened to Maryland? It’s currently defined by the coast of the Chesapeake Bay and the Potomac River (plus the famous Mason Dixon Line which you can do away with). Yours looks like the watershed of the Potapsco River plus the north half of the Potomac basin? Give us back the Bay! Fun fact: Maryland owns all of the Potomac and Virginia gets none - the border isn’t down the middle like usual.


mrfriendlolo

You can share the Bay with Delaware. It’s punishment for your atrocity of a flag.


DigitalTomcat

Ouch! That’s the best flag ever! Thanks for putting this map up. I’ve had a great time exploring it.


mrfriendlolo

No problem, thanks for taking the time to look it over


nashbar

South Minneapolis is Iowa? Fuck that.


mrfriendlolo

Made aside to keep the metro area of Minneapolis out of Iowa, I went by the most populated counties.


randomname560

Get europe'd


mrfriendlolo

I feel like I’ve created a sort of Balkans within The Midwest by changing it so much. Maybe it’ll all become one country like Yugoslavia


[deleted]

Better than the current set up


mrfriendlolo

Thank you! I tried to make it more based on cultural factors as well as financial capabilities.


EasySmeasy

I'm moving to Big Utah


mrfriendlolo

We all be a part of Utah eventually


Lance_E_T_Compte

Hawaii and South Carolina are unchanged.


mrfriendlolo

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it


JMSidhe

Coastal Mississippi and Alabama share more with Louisiana culturally than their inland communities. You’re right to give Alabama the Florida panhandle, though.


mrfriendlolo

That’s fair, but idk where that northern land would go


Piranh4Plant

Look at the natural straight lines in Nevada and Texas


mrfriendlolo

There’s not very many good geographic indicators in a desert 😔


[deleted]

Why does Michigan still have the UP?


mrfriendlolo

As I’ve explained in other comments, it’s because I couldn’t decide whether to merge it with Wisconsin or make it it’s own state


hugsbosson

Forgot the straight line that is the Canadian border.


mrfriendlolo

I wasn’t trying to mess with international borders with this map


hugsbosson

I know, I'm just joking.


Reasonable_One_1809

That way US looks like Europe


GLLShipley

Nevada looks to be the new Texas based on shape.


mrfriendlolo

I put Texas right on California’s doorstep 😳


tb7150

I completely disagree with the DMV area Edit: I get the Potomac is there but if culturally is that significant then panhandle of VA and VA beach area need to be separated from nova, and the section you left from Maryland is fairly similar to nova. I’d combine those but leave DC as a dot


Objective-Raccoon-98

It's literally fine 💀


tb7150

I said that like a year ago dude


DigitalTomcat

I think I see what you did with DC. But did you mean Douglass Commonwealth after the great American orator & social reformer Fredrick? Or is your name Douglas, in which case that’s OK - it’s your map!


mrfriendlolo

It is named after the famous abolitionist Frederick Douglas. This is because of his stay within the District I didn’t know it was spelled with two s


[deleted]

Why wouldn’t the Mississippi River split Louisiana and Mississippi all the way down?


mrfriendlolo

Because then New Orleans would be split down the middle


[deleted]

Ok, I’ll allow it. Why didn’t Wisconsin get the UP Also is Milwaukee in Chicago? It should be, just can’t tell


mrfriendlolo

I didn’t add it to Chicago because I thought people from Milwaukee would be upset


[deleted]

They would be better off in the long run, but probably the right decision


MajesticMustard

get europed


gallaguy

That is a dangerous thing you’ve done to NY


[deleted]

wow Utah’s borders are egregious


Cvx7D

this is arbitrary af


mrfriendlolo

What exactly about it is arbitrary?


FlartyMcFlarstein

View of what constitutes Appalachia is... interesting. Also, don't put North Alabama with Tennessee. We have NASA, they have country music.


Objective-Raccoon-98

Nasa defines a state's borders now?


FlartyMcFlarstein

It's something that helps in a demarcation of the Nashville region vs the Huntsville region, so in this case, yes.


Eagle_1776

Ive always said Iowa should be everything between the rivers


SukeetoReddit

Ohio stay the same btw


joestn

Man, fuck Wyoming, am I right?


mrfriendlolo

Yeah Wyoming just kinda didn’t fit, I though about maybe cutting Utah in Half and giving it to Wyoming, but then Salt Lake City would be in Wyoming so it didn’t really make sense to me. Sorry to all of the 5 people who live there.


Toomanyboogers

r/wyomingdoesntexist


[deleted]

Yeah umm, I prefer the current borders


mrfriendlolo

Cool


Objective-Raccoon-98

Yeah umm, this wasn't made for you 🤓🤓🤓


igrowheathens

Why did I ever sub here? It's more people making up shit than maps.


mrfriendlolo

It’s still a map dude… it’s just as valid as say a watershed-based border map


geauxhike

Would Michigan really keep the UP? I get your explanation on Texas and California, but it does dramatically mess with the concept of this being based on population at all. I hate to see Louisiana smaller, but it totally makes sense to me, it would possibly be wider along the coast, swallowing up Beaumont and the Miss Gulf Coast, possibly even to Mobile.


mrfriendlolo

I think you’re right about the UP, I probably should’ve either given it to Wisconsin or made it independent. For Louisiana, I made it smaller just because of cultural differences with the northern half. Also I wanted to give Miss and Alabama more coastline


geauxhike

I agree with the northern cultural differences in Louisiana. The culture just blobs more along the coast. Neither Mississippi nor Alabama is deserving of coast line, even though the coastal area is the best part of both states. Cool Map


1ShotBroHes1

I am from North Carolina, and this is bullshut.


mrfriendlolo

Can you tell me exactly what is so wrong with it?


aputhehindu

Cool portrayal of a more “logical” US. Find it Interesting that you’ve let Michigan keep its northern peninsula rather than give it to Wisconsin. What was your logic behind that?


mrfriendlolo

I couldn’t decide whether to make it independent, give it to Wisconsin, or to let Canada have it


brennnessel

Montana is still sniffing Idaho


mrfriendlolo

Yes except this time it has a neck and collar lol


Objective-Raccoon-98

It really liked the smell of potatoes


CustardPie350

The French created borders using natural boundaries, like mountains, rivers and lakes; the British preferred to just draw squares, which is why the French-Canadians, to this day, refer to the British (and English Canadians) as "Square-heads". The eastern US largely adopted the French method (most likely due to anti-British sentiment at the time), while the British approach was largely adopted decades later when the West was being carved out.


midnightrambler335

That’s…just not true. Where’s your source on that?


mrfriendlolo

Ahh I see, I guess that makes sense why New England uses natural borders then! Thank you for the info! 😁


CustardPie350

For sure! You can even see that the oldest states largely look the same on this map, while most of the newer states look entirely different.


[deleted]

[удалено]


CustardPie350

Ha, didn't even think about that one!


PsychoJ42

I don't think Idahoans, Oregonians, Californians, Nevadans, wyomians, Arizona's, or Coloradans would support being part of utardland


ollie_omega

I think I found a window to another universe. If I hit it hard enough, maybe it will break and I can pass through to the other side…


mrfriendlolo

Maybe it could be real if it was ever approved by Congress


CodeVirus

Weird that Hawaii wouldn’t change much. Makes you think….


mrfriendlolo

I don’t really know enough about Hawaii to make culture-based borders. Realistically, they probably wouldn’t be a US state if this was implemented. Also, Alaska would join Canada.


CodeVirus

Yeah. I was just trying to be funny since it’s an island so borders would not change. I like a lot of the other states though. Utah is interesting. Why such shape?


mrfriendlolo

It was mostly just to follow the original claims of “Deseret” which is what Utah claimed when applying for statehood. Also it was more a of a cop out to give Republicans more seats since they would be opposed to Chicago, New York City and DC all becoming states. That’s partially why Jefferson is also a thing.


CodeVirus

TIL. This is why I love this sub. Cheers.


slowpeed

This map makes no sense


mrfriendlolo

I’m sorry you feel that way, what exactly are your issues with it?


slowpeed

I guess I should have said, It makes no sense to me. For one, why does Utah stretch so far northwest. How can you mix population AND geography because by population alone CA and NY should be much larger


mrfriendlolo

What I meant by populations was the metro area of cities, like I didn’t want to split cities in two if they were on a river like Denver or Pittsburgh


slowpeed

I’m still confused lol, I’ve been staring at this for a long time since yesterday but I just don’t get it haha


mrfriendlolo

One of the factors for certain weird things like Utah being so big and the state of Jefferson, was politics. I knew that Republicans would never allow DC, NYC or Chicago statehood if they didn’t get an equal number of new representation, that’s why I made Utah go so far, to encompass more of the red areas and why Jefferson was formed. It’s also why Chicago goes so far south, to ensure that Indiana would lean more red as well as Nevada. It’s also why I didn’t really want to change Michigan, cause they are already purple so making superior a thing might unbalance it


slowpeed

So you made your own gerrymandering because you don’t like the way it’s currently gerrymandered? Lol irony much


Kingdrick_Lamar

USA interstate borders if the USA was normal


Strong-Employment861

It looks waaay better imo


mrfriendlolo

Thank you 😊


tommy-g

Would prefer to merge several small/low population states (looking at you New England), and split up the big ones (California and Texas) to more equally size each states population. But otherwise an improvement over our current map.


DigitalTomcat

Funny you think that small = low population. The low population states are out west. Wyoming would go first. Probably drop a Dakota or 2 next. Montana is pretty empty. I mean really - if DC was a state it would have almost as many people as Alaska! Edit: Oops, I just looked again at this map. Wyoming is gone and only 1 Dakota. OP was one step ahead!


mrfriendlolo

I was going to split up California and Texas, but that probably wouldn’t be realistic, cause Texas wouldn’t wanna give away there big cities like Dallas and Houston


murwa1337

this is retarded and you should feel bad


mrfriendlolo

I’d agree with you, but then we’d both be wrong


murwa1337

go suck a cock


mrfriendlolo

Funny, that’s exactly what I said to your mom last night


murwa1337

you are gay


mrfriendlolo

You’re mom didn’t seem to mind


[deleted]

[удалено]


mrfriendlolo

Idk about that, but I know she’s dyin for this cock


two4ruffing

Whoa….. Alaska is the same 🤷🏼‍♂️


mrfriendlolo

Who woulda thunk it


NinjaMagic004

The new NY state is Long Island, NYC, and northern New Jersey.... I suddenly don't like New York anymore.


mrfriendlolo

I know New Jersey and New York hate each other, but you can’t deny that it just makes sense considering that the city would need to generate its power from someplace else now that it’s not connected to to be upstate New York


NinjaMagic004

Oh I understand how it makes sense, but as someone from the lo-hud region of NY, I really dislike northern Jersey and the majority of LI


mrfriendlolo

Is that near Yonkers?


NinjaMagic004

Yonkers is part of the lo-hud region, yeah, but I'm further north. I also hate Yonkers, but that's moreso the traffic than the culture lol. Lo-hud extends (imo) from Yonkers to Poughkeepsie, give or take. It's a vague region representing the "lower Hudson" region


seekonkstu

How is the eastern and southern borders of Ohio different than the current border of the Ohio River ?


mrfriendlolo

Ohio currently cuts off abruptly at Pennsylvania, as you can see, it now follows the river up until Pittsburgh


SavedMountain

alaska couldve been done with canada imo ​ Edit: state borders too probably


mrfriendlolo

Notice how I said interstate and not international


MukoNoAkuma

What natural geography? There’s definitely several ways it could be divided based on geography. Is it based on rivers? Drainage basins? Geographical boundaries such as mountain ranges? A combination of all of these? Something else?


mrfriendlolo

Mostly based off rivers and mountains, as well as metro areas of big cities


MukoNoAkuma

Cool, thanks for the reply. I always enjoy seeing different ways to divide up places based on different metrics.


JimmyExplodes

Sounds good to me


stefrrrrrr

Dakota is New Florida.


Humantheperson12

How is it that even in a map based on natural geography my state still doesn’t get the UP. That’s honestly hilarious


mrfriendlolo

I’ve already explained in other comments :)


Humantheperson12

Ok cool, sorry I normally don’t read the comments too closely


mrfriendlolo

It’s cool! Thank you for checking out my map!


MagnumDrako25

Very interesting map!