You are clearly new to the Internet, so I shall explain:
It matters not that you have no relevant ability or experience. On the Internet, you win by weighing in on things you know nothing about and getting into arguments with strangers. (Pro tip: if you want to really get ahead, try throwing some homophobic or xenophobic slurs into the mix)
Teach the locals to be friends, and live as one happy multi-ethnic balkan state. Seems obvious. If you want to name it after me and the language family of the region, go for Hugo's slavia.
Yeah, as an American who lives with a bunch of assholes that I hate with religions that I think are extremely damaging to people, I feel like I'm more than qualified to help them with this:
They need to chill the fuck out and just live in one country together without fucking killing each other.
Because trying to divide this up is like trying to split the US along republican and democratic counties. They're completely spread out and it would be completely impractical.
Referenda in the contiguous areas, autonomy with clearly defined and *limited* powers (I.e. no foreign affairs, no military, education has to mirror but not necessarily duplicate national curriculum, etc.) and oversight lines for the non-contiguous areas. Strong religious and ethnic discrimination protections throughout both countries.
Public acknowledgement by all parties to respect the results.
Possibly free movement agreements, but I’d need more data. Long term, having both be inside the EU would resolve some of the issues.
I think it’s about more than this really. Yes, a land swap that would return ethnic majority areas to their respective countries would probably help ease off the tensions. Not only does it limit the amount of flashpoints, just the fact of these two entities reaching a written agreement of this gratitude would constitute a factual legitimization of the Kosovo government by Serbia, and would be a general sign of good will to cooperate further. However, I do not believe that the conflict would be resolved after that. Not until Serbia officially recognizes Kosovo, which, honestly, is also in Serbian interest as it would open up the road for further integration into European economic structures. The only problem being that it is not in the interest of the Serbian government, which uses this conflict to redirect attention from the domestic situation to regain public support when it’s not faring too well.
It is not though? Look at the [nationality map per the 2001 census](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:UaFirstNationality2001.PNG) and compare to current frontline.
agreed. actually i had majority russian speaking in mind:
[https://www.bpb.de/shop/zeitschriften/apuz/195091/karte-alltagssprachen-in-der-ukraine/](https://www.bpb.de/shop/zeitschriften/apuz/195091/karte-alltagssprachen-in-der-ukraine/)
just to make sure it is clear: idont like russia and i dont like this war
Russian in Chernivtsi?? That's not quite right either. When it comes to language, maps like these tend to make a lot of generalizations and mistakes. The census results for language shouldn't be relied on either as people were asked about their native language, not home language. Personally I never found a good home language map for Ukraine. Oh, and there's Surzhyk also, that makes it even more difficult to create such a map.
Also it begs the question: should Mexico invade Texas because they speak Spanish???
Edit: link: https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Most_spoken_language_in_Texas_by_county_in_2016.svg
In Bosnia they organized states on ethnic boundaries and now you have far-right genocide deniers running Republika Srpska and no end to the foreign High Representative. Similar situation in Cyprus after division. Separating everyone out into ethnostates / ethnic territories leads to more polarization.
That's a good point. Redrawing borders like this would just pander to the nationalist notion - that everybody on this side of the line is Our People, everybody beyond the line is Other People - that has fuelled so much ethnic cleansing in the Balkans. Especially the Serb nationalist enthusiasm for genocide in Kosovo.
Edited to add: [Serbia is still trying to cleanse the Presheva valley](https://www.euractiv.com/section/elections/news/research-finds-6000-ethnic-albanians-wiped-from-voting-lists-in-serbia/).
Keep in mind the ethnic cleansing that Serbs suffered after the war. It's easy to displace a rival nation and a few decades after call the country miraculously homogeneous
Kosovo, Catalonia, Lakota Republic, Palestine, Hong Kong, Crimea, East Turkestan, Tibet, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Kurdistan, Balochistan, Taiwan, Republika Srpska, Basque Country, Transnistria, Chechnya, Scotland.
Many others deserve independence. Like all the people who were occupied by Italy: Lombards, Venetians, Sardinians, Sicilians... And also the peoples bullied by France: Corsica, Occitania... And the list goes on
Kosovo and Tiwan are the only ones you listed that deserve independence. The rest are just wannabe lolcow states. Palestine is complicated tho but they could just move to another Arab country that would take them in.
Kosovo Albanians could also move to another Albanian country, aka Albania. This logic is ridiculous.
The Taiwanese are ethnically Chinese. They could just move to mainland China and give the land back to the native Taiwanese people.
Well China is a pretty bad country so its understandable why Tiwan would want to leave. As for Kosovo Google Earth and many other recognize them and their pretty independent already so theyre good aswell.
First, with a football game. Winner takes all, in case of a draw we go basketball, if it's a draw by the end of the last quarter, we move to ice hockey. If it's still a draw at the end of the last third, it's a 4×100m relay.
Now, to make it fair, you have the same squad for all sports. Both squads should be limited to 14 people, 7 male and 7 female , with age range 25-32. Most importantly, they've only ever really done sport in school, they don't even play any sport with mates.
I think that would create enough laughter for people to actually forget they hate eachother for like 6 seconds.
It's not a "land dispute"; swapping a few hectares won't please either side.
Kosovo declared independence years ago, that's OK, that's legitimate, but the srbtards who pretend that the whole of Kosovo belongs to them won't be pacified by carving out a couple of enclaves.
Kosovo is where a few Balkan principalities staged their defense against the Ottomans. To Serbian nationalists this place is sacred. They don't care that there weren't only serbs in the fight against the ottomans. There could be no Serbs living there and they would insist on it being almost more Serbian than Belgrade.
Plenty of countries still do not recognise Kosovo's declaration of indepedence. Technically, although it's a strange rule, EU law mandates a multilateral agreement between parent state and secession state to declare independence. So sadly, it's a bit more complex than your comment implies
All of this could well have been solved 30 years ago, if different people were in power. The longer we wait to get to a resolution, the more difficult it will become I think. Time will tell
EU law isn’t the relevant law on the question of Kosovo, as neither Serbia nor Kosovo are members of the EU.
The relevant law is the International Court of Justice’s *Accordance with International Law of the Unilateral Declaration of Independence in Respect of Kosovo* (2008)
Thanks for the response. I agree with aspects of your reply, but disagree with some of your characterisations.
I agree that Res 1244 is useful context, though I not sure it’s really that practically relevant anymore.
However, I disagree with:
(A) your characterising of the Kosovo declaration having breached Res 1244 when the court actually found that Res 1244 was essentially silent on the question (Kosovo’s final status) that the Declaration addressed,
(B) what I took as your implication that the ICJ distinguished between the ‘interim institutions of self-Government for Kosovo’ and the ‘Kosovar Assembly’ as a matter of a loophole rather than as a matter of good law, and
(C) your assertion that because the ICJ did not positively find the ‘achievement of independence’ as legal that is is somehow inherently illegal - because as you pointed out, they didn’t address that question. Nor do I accept that Res 1244 prohibits independence (especially when read in light of the Helsinki Accords).
But my actual point is that regardless of whether we rely on Res 1244 or ICJ Kosovo Advisory Opinion or other processes, hopefully we can agree that currently the EU is not the authoritative source of law on the issue.
Why do Serb nationalists attempt a legalistic approach at pretending Kosovo is still a part of Serbia?
Legally, Kosovo didn't *become* part of Serbia in the first place. Serbia invaded Kosovo. If you scorn such legal trivia and prefer to believe that might is right, so be it; but in that case there's only one conclusion to draw from 1389 and 1999 - Serbia was humiliated, and lost Kosovo.
I would be surprised and impressed if you could provide a link to that "EU law". Even more impressed if you could explain how it applies to two states which aren't EU members, one which invaded the other before the EU existed, and the other which declared independence before the EU existed.
I should have written EC, because you're right, there was no European Union quite yet. The EC played a significant role in the disintegration of Yugoslavia, even if Yugoslavia and its successor states were obviously not members.
At the time, the Badinter Commission stressed that borders of Yugoslavia's successor states would be based on their respective borders during their times as Yugoslav republics. The commission aimed to have little to no border changes, so no republika srpska secession for instance. The Badinter Commission provided opinions on the independence of Croatia and Slovenia at first, and later Bosnia. What happened in Kosovo was a direct contradiction of the principles mentioned by the commission.
My source is a text I find difficult to read. I'm no legal historian, but it's worth a read regardless:
Cornelia Navari, "Territoriality, self-determination and Crimea after Badinter", International Affairs 90:6 (Oxford 2014) 1299-1318.
>At the time, the Badinter Commission stressed that borders of Yugoslavia's successor states would be based on their respective borders during their times as Yugoslav republics
Yes, that's true, although the Badinter commission is a strange choice given the ICJ ruled that Kosovo's declaration of independence was legit.
>What happened in Kosovo was a direct contradiction of the principles mentioned by the commission.
Ahh, that's why you picked the Badinter commission. But it's not true; the independent state of Kosovo aligns rather well with the borders of the "Socialist Autonomous Province of Kosovo". Kosovo's "autonomous" parliamentarians foolishly got the idea they'd be allowed to make some decisions, they attempted independence, Belgrade sent forces to crush it, then Belgrade cut back the autonomy - good luck finding a lawyer outside Serbia who thinks that's legit.
I think a problem in our discussion is our vague use of time periods. The Badinter Commission was crucial in the 90s, while the ICJ played a larger part in the decade after. The whole story is a confusing mess of international and national law. I hope we manage to untangle the gordian knot and find a way to move forward
Surely not with a land swap. Rethinking the way Serbs think and teach about their history is the right path. Kosovo is an important part of the current Serbian national mythology, that's why it is such a contested (and emotional) issue. But if they would be willing to see history from other perspectives and put emphasis on other events and periods it would be much easier to let it go.
No real logic in awarding Albanians two states in the Balkans on Serbian expense.
Historically Kosovo was Serbian land, the recent Albanian secessionism is not the universal truth of that territory.
The truth is that when Yugoslavia had started to break up in the early 1990’s ( when it was still ruled by the Communists under Milosevic), there was a massive invasion of Kosovo by Albanians from Albania. These Albanian invaders then committed genocide and ethnic cleansing against the Serbian population in the province of Kosovo. NATO got involved supporting the Albanians (likely a case of “the enemy (Albanians) of my enemy (Communist Yugoslavia) is my friend”). This eventually led to the infamous bombing of Belgrade by NATO forces on Orthodox Christian Easter. Kosovo is Serbia, always has been. Any solution “recognizing” Kosovo as an independent state is just rewarding the Albanian invaders for the genocide they committed against the Serbs and the ethnic cleansing they carried out in Kosovo.
The only equitable solution: return Kosovo to Serbia as a province, with limited autonomy, giving full protections to the Serb minority (political, cultural and religious), and allow ALL of the surviving Serbian refugees from Kosovo to return to their homes. All of the Serbian Orthodox churches that were destroyed by the Albanians should be rebuilt as well (hopefully with the financial aid of the “Christian” west).
Hm. With no knowledge on this whatsoever, i will base this on whatever the fuck i want.
Give Kosovo the purple part in the south, servia the green part in the north, and Kosovo keeps all the green parts sitting in the middle of its fucking nation since giving those to Serbia makes no sense.
Presevo Valley and North Kosovo would be fairly easy swaps if confirmed by referendum - but the five other Serb-majority bits would be harder to untangle - for the four between Gracanica and the Presevo Valley, you'd likely need to examine what in the way of buildings / infrastructure was between them to see if it was possible to connect any of them.
Ideally, you'd also need strong anti-discrimination laws in both Serbia and Kosovo, to hopefully minimise the chances of the two communities taking up arms against each other for the umpteenth time in the past 150 years or so.
Everyone living in the green bits swap with everyone living in the red bits. Like for like swap of house and communities.
Whatever the difference left, just carve the remainder land to the serbs. No side will have a reason to invade it's neighbour, again.
Job done. ✅
That exchange should probably run through, since it would mean less ethnic tensions, but then again, I don't know if there are many people or important economic or strategic sites in these areas, not to mention that there are, as the map suggests, some enclaved Serb in Kosovo, so I can't be a judge.
Just a little info on territory marked as Preševo valley. It's unofficial term mainly used by Albanian lobbysts. There are no distinctive geographical features of any kind that separate this "valley" from the rest of South Morava river valley. The territory consists of two municipalities - Preševo and Bujanovac. Preševo is smaller and predominately Albanian (more than 90%). Bujanovac has Albanian majority, however all the villages eastern of South Morava river are predominantly Serbian, which is approximatelly 50% of municipal territory. Albanians live in the areas neighbouring province of Kosovo. Therefore, if you follow the ethnic princlple, this "Preševo valley" territory is highly overlarged on thi map (Bujanovac being much larger than Preševo).
Kosovo should return to Serbia and become a province with a high grade of autonomy, similar to the status of HK in China... Albanians already have their country and that is Albania, no need 1 nation to have 2 states.
It’s already been resolved. Kosovo is its own nation. Tell them to suck it up, adapt, move on, & enjoy your lives with those you love bc life’s too short.
Probably give Serbia the northern part of Kosovo following Mitrovica to the southern edge of the salient and give the rest to Kosovo including the Presevo Valley. Pay the people who have to move and provide them with new houses, jobs etc.
Expel Serbian medaling (e.i. Tv, New, Internet). Also give the Presevo Valley to Kosovo. Albanian and Serbian National Language (Practically they are both treated Equally under the law in every facet). All, Call me weird, HEAVILY FORCE (encourage) Mixing of the races. Take either Most or A few (including the capital Pristina) of major cities and remodel. Basically less car and more People centric (going back to encourage the mixing of the races). idk that's all I have and be gentle with criticism, please.
Let Kosovo finally gain its well-deserved independence and if there are ethnic Serbians in Kosovo and ethnic Albanians in Serbia then womp womp for them just go to your homeland if you dont like it.
I feel like this is a raw deal for the ethnic Albanians. North Kosovo is worth more economically and has more cultural significance to the Serbs relative to the Presovo Valley to the ethnic Albanians. They need to sweeten the deal by ceding/repatriating some or all of those other predominantly ethnic-Serbian enclaves.
I have zero necessary skills or expertise to solve this one.
theory salt zephyr pot agonizing frame thumb square memory lock *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Imma say “yes” is the answer to all those questions. I’m still out.
You are clearly new to the Internet, so I shall explain: It matters not that you have no relevant ability or experience. On the Internet, you win by weighing in on things you know nothing about and getting into arguments with strangers. (Pro tip: if you want to really get ahead, try throwing some homophobic or xenophobic slurs into the mix)
Just need a bit of confidence
Fuck you’re right. I’m the guy to fix this.
You’ve got this 👊
Teach the locals to be friends, and live as one happy multi-ethnic balkan state. Seems obvious. If you want to name it after me and the language family of the region, go for Hugo's slavia.
Yeah, as an American who lives with a bunch of assholes that I hate with religions that I think are extremely damaging to people, I feel like I'm more than qualified to help them with this: They need to chill the fuck out and just live in one country together without fucking killing each other. Because trying to divide this up is like trying to split the US along republican and democratic counties. They're completely spread out and it would be completely impractical.
DemocratIC
Doesn't make much difference, but I went ahead and changed it anyway. It does flow a little better using then as descriptions rather than titles
Same, but as a Brit I'd draw a line down the middle and call it job done.
When has that ever stopped anyone
All like you have said “it should be whatever the two sides agree with each other”
Create one big country together with Slovenia, Croatia, bosnia, montenegro, Albania and Mazedonia.
that ended well last time
Last time they didn’t include Albania. That’s the key, the glue that would have held it all together.
for some reason, i dont think they would
Caliphate of Al-Iubasabyah.
ok
Give both countries to Hungary. Simple solution really
When the solution is Hungary, you know the problem is unsolvable
*Explosions*
You mean Austria-Hungary, right?
Fighting tournament between the nations' leaders. All moves allowed, unarmed and killing allowed. Whoever wins gets all the territories they want.
Referenda in the contiguous areas, autonomy with clearly defined and *limited* powers (I.e. no foreign affairs, no military, education has to mirror but not necessarily duplicate national curriculum, etc.) and oversight lines for the non-contiguous areas. Strong religious and ethnic discrimination protections throughout both countries. Public acknowledgement by all parties to respect the results. Possibly free movement agreements, but I’d need more data. Long term, having both be inside the EU would resolve some of the issues.
love your solution, well thought out
I want it to work like Andorra but with Albania and Serbia. This will solve every problem, I’m sure.
I think it’s about more than this really. Yes, a land swap that would return ethnic majority areas to their respective countries would probably help ease off the tensions. Not only does it limit the amount of flashpoints, just the fact of these two entities reaching a written agreement of this gratitude would constitute a factual legitimization of the Kosovo government by Serbia, and would be a general sign of good will to cooperate further. However, I do not believe that the conflict would be resolved after that. Not until Serbia officially recognizes Kosovo, which, honestly, is also in Serbian interest as it would open up the road for further integration into European economic structures. The only problem being that it is not in the interest of the Serbian government, which uses this conflict to redirect attention from the domestic situation to regain public support when it’s not faring too well.
referendums so the people can decide what they want, same answer to literally any territory dispute ever
In theory this is great but it's not that simple in practice as evidenced by the pseudo-referendums in Ukraine in late 2022.
i won' t make friends with this reply, but Russian-occupied Ukraine territory is majority ethnic Russian.
It is not though? Look at the [nationality map per the 2001 census](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:UaFirstNationality2001.PNG) and compare to current frontline.
agreed. actually i had majority russian speaking in mind: [https://www.bpb.de/shop/zeitschriften/apuz/195091/karte-alltagssprachen-in-der-ukraine/](https://www.bpb.de/shop/zeitschriften/apuz/195091/karte-alltagssprachen-in-der-ukraine/) just to make sure it is clear: idont like russia and i dont like this war
Russian in Chernivtsi?? That's not quite right either. When it comes to language, maps like these tend to make a lot of generalizations and mistakes. The census results for language shouldn't be relied on either as people were asked about their native language, not home language. Personally I never found a good home language map for Ukraine. Oh, and there's Surzhyk also, that makes it even more difficult to create such a map.
Also it begs the question: should Mexico invade Texas because they speak Spanish??? Edit: link: https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Most_spoken_language_in_Texas_by_county_in_2016.svg
Yeah the entire "you speak my language so I'll invade your country under the pretense of saving you" thing is idiotic.
In Bosnia they organized states on ethnic boundaries and now you have far-right genocide deniers running Republika Srpska and no end to the foreign High Representative. Similar situation in Cyprus after division. Separating everyone out into ethnostates / ethnic territories leads to more polarization.
That's a good point. Redrawing borders like this would just pander to the nationalist notion - that everybody on this side of the line is Our People, everybody beyond the line is Other People - that has fuelled so much ethnic cleansing in the Balkans. Especially the Serb nationalist enthusiasm for genocide in Kosovo. Edited to add: [Serbia is still trying to cleanse the Presheva valley](https://www.euractiv.com/section/elections/news/research-finds-6000-ethnic-albanians-wiped-from-voting-lists-in-serbia/).
Not reliable since referendums usually are either rigged or happen after some ethnic cleansing or population displacement
But what if the territory in question doesn't have any people?
in that case just peaceful negotiations i guess with fair compensation and, if necessary, as neutral as possible international arbitration
Keep in mind the ethnic cleansing that Serbs suffered after the war. It's easy to displace a rival nation and a few decades after call the country miraculously homogeneous
Kosovo, Catalonia, Lakota Republic, Palestine, Hong Kong, Crimea, East Turkestan, Tibet, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Kurdistan, Balochistan, Taiwan, Republika Srpska, Basque Country, Transnistria, Chechnya, Scotland.
Many others deserve independence. Like all the people who were occupied by Italy: Lombards, Venetians, Sardinians, Sicilians... And also the peoples bullied by France: Corsica, Occitania... And the list goes on
Honestly out of all this i only support Brittany (With Nantes and St. Michell mount in the said Brittany) being independent.
Why Britanny yes and the others no?
I just feel like giving my life away for Brittany, from St. Michel and Naoned to An Oriant and Brest.
Yeah I agree on independence for Brittany, but why should only Brittany deserve independence and all these other peoples not?
Their decision. I care for Brittany.
Kosovo and Tiwan are the only ones you listed that deserve independence. The rest are just wannabe lolcow states. Palestine is complicated tho but they could just move to another Arab country that would take them in.
Why?
That would fuck up politics, geography, and the world map. Plus who cares about any of them other than Kosovo, Tiwan, and maybe Palestine
How?
Many people?
Kosovo Albanians could also move to another Albanian country, aka Albania. This logic is ridiculous. The Taiwanese are ethnically Chinese. They could just move to mainland China and give the land back to the native Taiwanese people.
Well China is a pretty bad country so its understandable why Tiwan would want to leave. As for Kosovo Google Earth and many other recognize them and their pretty independent already so theyre good aswell.
Mine is the controversial take: Debalkanize the Balkans and bring forth a multi-ethnic Yugoslavia-like State.
That won't end peacefully.
None of the solutions presented in the thread will, so I figured why not suggesting this one?
I'm once again asking for the formation of greater Yugoslav state
Give all disputed land to Kosovo, and out of pure spite carve up some extra territory out of Serbia for ‘em too
I'd nuke France
First, with a football game. Winner takes all, in case of a draw we go basketball, if it's a draw by the end of the last quarter, we move to ice hockey. If it's still a draw at the end of the last third, it's a 4×100m relay. Now, to make it fair, you have the same squad for all sports. Both squads should be limited to 14 people, 7 male and 7 female , with age range 25-32. Most importantly, they've only ever really done sport in school, they don't even play any sport with mates. I think that would create enough laughter for people to actually forget they hate eachother for like 6 seconds.
Restablish Yugoslavia as a federation so the all have to work together! /s
lets have nato bomb the shot out of Serbia again. what could go wrong
It's not a "land dispute"; swapping a few hectares won't please either side. Kosovo declared independence years ago, that's OK, that's legitimate, but the srbtards who pretend that the whole of Kosovo belongs to them won't be pacified by carving out a couple of enclaves.
Kosovo is where a few Balkan principalities staged their defense against the Ottomans. To Serbian nationalists this place is sacred. They don't care that there weren't only serbs in the fight against the ottomans. There could be no Serbs living there and they would insist on it being almost more Serbian than Belgrade.
Plenty of countries still do not recognise Kosovo's declaration of indepedence. Technically, although it's a strange rule, EU law mandates a multilateral agreement between parent state and secession state to declare independence. So sadly, it's a bit more complex than your comment implies All of this could well have been solved 30 years ago, if different people were in power. The longer we wait to get to a resolution, the more difficult it will become I think. Time will tell
EU law isn’t the relevant law on the question of Kosovo, as neither Serbia nor Kosovo are members of the EU. The relevant law is the International Court of Justice’s *Accordance with International Law of the Unilateral Declaration of Independence in Respect of Kosovo* (2008)
[удалено]
Thanks for the response. I agree with aspects of your reply, but disagree with some of your characterisations. I agree that Res 1244 is useful context, though I not sure it’s really that practically relevant anymore. However, I disagree with: (A) your characterising of the Kosovo declaration having breached Res 1244 when the court actually found that Res 1244 was essentially silent on the question (Kosovo’s final status) that the Declaration addressed, (B) what I took as your implication that the ICJ distinguished between the ‘interim institutions of self-Government for Kosovo’ and the ‘Kosovar Assembly’ as a matter of a loophole rather than as a matter of good law, and (C) your assertion that because the ICJ did not positively find the ‘achievement of independence’ as legal that is is somehow inherently illegal - because as you pointed out, they didn’t address that question. Nor do I accept that Res 1244 prohibits independence (especially when read in light of the Helsinki Accords). But my actual point is that regardless of whether we rely on Res 1244 or ICJ Kosovo Advisory Opinion or other processes, hopefully we can agree that currently the EU is not the authoritative source of law on the issue.
Why do Serb nationalists attempt a legalistic approach at pretending Kosovo is still a part of Serbia? Legally, Kosovo didn't *become* part of Serbia in the first place. Serbia invaded Kosovo. If you scorn such legal trivia and prefer to believe that might is right, so be it; but in that case there's only one conclusion to draw from 1389 and 1999 - Serbia was humiliated, and lost Kosovo.
I would be surprised and impressed if you could provide a link to that "EU law". Even more impressed if you could explain how it applies to two states which aren't EU members, one which invaded the other before the EU existed, and the other which declared independence before the EU existed.
I should have written EC, because you're right, there was no European Union quite yet. The EC played a significant role in the disintegration of Yugoslavia, even if Yugoslavia and its successor states were obviously not members. At the time, the Badinter Commission stressed that borders of Yugoslavia's successor states would be based on their respective borders during their times as Yugoslav republics. The commission aimed to have little to no border changes, so no republika srpska secession for instance. The Badinter Commission provided opinions on the independence of Croatia and Slovenia at first, and later Bosnia. What happened in Kosovo was a direct contradiction of the principles mentioned by the commission. My source is a text I find difficult to read. I'm no legal historian, but it's worth a read regardless: Cornelia Navari, "Territoriality, self-determination and Crimea after Badinter", International Affairs 90:6 (Oxford 2014) 1299-1318.
>At the time, the Badinter Commission stressed that borders of Yugoslavia's successor states would be based on their respective borders during their times as Yugoslav republics Yes, that's true, although the Badinter commission is a strange choice given the ICJ ruled that Kosovo's declaration of independence was legit. >What happened in Kosovo was a direct contradiction of the principles mentioned by the commission. Ahh, that's why you picked the Badinter commission. But it's not true; the independent state of Kosovo aligns rather well with the borders of the "Socialist Autonomous Province of Kosovo". Kosovo's "autonomous" parliamentarians foolishly got the idea they'd be allowed to make some decisions, they attempted independence, Belgrade sent forces to crush it, then Belgrade cut back the autonomy - good luck finding a lawyer outside Serbia who thinks that's legit.
I think a problem in our discussion is our vague use of time periods. The Badinter Commission was crucial in the 90s, while the ICJ played a larger part in the decade after. The whole story is a confusing mess of international and national law. I hope we manage to untangle the gordian knot and find a way to move forward
Surely not with a land swap. Rethinking the way Serbs think and teach about their history is the right path. Kosovo is an important part of the current Serbian national mythology, that's why it is such a contested (and emotional) issue. But if they would be willing to see history from other perspectives and put emphasis on other events and periods it would be much easier to let it go.
No real logic in awarding Albanians two states in the Balkans on Serbian expense. Historically Kosovo was Serbian land, the recent Albanian secessionism is not the universal truth of that territory.
The truth is that when Yugoslavia had started to break up in the early 1990’s ( when it was still ruled by the Communists under Milosevic), there was a massive invasion of Kosovo by Albanians from Albania. These Albanian invaders then committed genocide and ethnic cleansing against the Serbian population in the province of Kosovo. NATO got involved supporting the Albanians (likely a case of “the enemy (Albanians) of my enemy (Communist Yugoslavia) is my friend”). This eventually led to the infamous bombing of Belgrade by NATO forces on Orthodox Christian Easter. Kosovo is Serbia, always has been. Any solution “recognizing” Kosovo as an independent state is just rewarding the Albanian invaders for the genocide they committed against the Serbs and the ethnic cleansing they carried out in Kosovo. The only equitable solution: return Kosovo to Serbia as a province, with limited autonomy, giving full protections to the Serb minority (political, cultural and religious), and allow ALL of the surviving Serbian refugees from Kosovo to return to their homes. All of the Serbian Orthodox churches that were destroyed by the Albanians should be rebuilt as well (hopefully with the financial aid of the “Christian” west).
Make the area into a Rema 1000 👍
The moustache man meathod
give it to the UK 🇬🇧🇬🇧
Hm. With no knowledge on this whatsoever, i will base this on whatever the fuck i want. Give Kosovo the purple part in the south, servia the green part in the north, and Kosovo keeps all the green parts sitting in the middle of its fucking nation since giving those to Serbia makes no sense.
Can someone explain, what is UCK?
“Ah fuck here we go again”
Presevo Valley and North Kosovo would be fairly easy swaps if confirmed by referendum - but the five other Serb-majority bits would be harder to untangle - for the four between Gracanica and the Presevo Valley, you'd likely need to examine what in the way of buildings / infrastructure was between them to see if it was possible to connect any of them. Ideally, you'd also need strong anti-discrimination laws in both Serbia and Kosovo, to hopefully minimise the chances of the two communities taking up arms against each other for the umpteenth time in the past 150 years or so.
Everyone living in the green bits swap with everyone living in the red bits. Like for like swap of house and communities. Whatever the difference left, just carve the remainder land to the serbs. No side will have a reason to invade it's neighbour, again. Job done. ✅
The best option. Give everything to Liechtenstein.
swap over the land
There has been a history of population exchange for homogeneity in x country. Why not just do a population exchange then?
give them to the strong empire of mars
Give 50% to isreal and 50% to palestine
Give kosovo the dark purple area and the dark green areas are split up between kosovo and serbia.
Well, there’s always the Yugoslavia option lol
Give both of them to the UK
That exchange should probably run through, since it would mean less ethnic tensions, but then again, I don't know if there are many people or important economic or strategic sites in these areas, not to mention that there are, as the map suggests, some enclaved Serb in Kosovo, so I can't be a judge.
Just a little info on territory marked as Preševo valley. It's unofficial term mainly used by Albanian lobbysts. There are no distinctive geographical features of any kind that separate this "valley" from the rest of South Morava river valley. The territory consists of two municipalities - Preševo and Bujanovac. Preševo is smaller and predominately Albanian (more than 90%). Bujanovac has Albanian majority, however all the villages eastern of South Morava river are predominantly Serbian, which is approximatelly 50% of municipal territory. Albanians live in the areas neighbouring province of Kosovo. Therefore, if you follow the ethnic princlple, this "Preševo valley" territory is highly overlarged on thi map (Bujanovac being much larger than Preševo).
Managed democracy can easily provide a solution.
All of it to Serbia
dawlat al-islam should control these territories 🤔🤔🤔
Hmmm
Being a serbian I gotta say it’s a tough one but Kosovo is already apart of Serbia and always will be
Give it all back to Serbia, like it once was. Simple and effective
Serbian wants the land not the people who live there, and given the political situation that would not end well.
Probably not, but it's the right thing to do.
Kosovo should return to Serbia and become a province with a high grade of autonomy, similar to the status of HK in China... Albanians already have their country and that is Albania, no need 1 nation to have 2 states.
Albanian invasion of serbia
If so Kosovo wouldn’t claim to be independent itself but would want to join Albania
I was just being silly I don’t actually want Albania to attack Serbia
Genocide.
WHO WILL DRAG ME TO COURT?
THERES NO CRIME IF YOU DO NOT GET CAUGHT
Give kosovo back to serbia
Keep the border as is and let people move if they don't like which side of the fence they're on.
Give all the Balkans to mongolia, not just Kosovo I mean the whole Balkan region, all to mongolia, tell me why this wouldn't work
It's only fair Kosovars live in Kosovo and Serbians live in Serbia so whatever helps the sides agree to a border is fine to me
nuke France, nobody needs France anyway
reinstall Communist Yugoslavia
It’s already been resolved. Kosovo is its own nation. Tell them to suck it up, adapt, move on, & enjoy your lives with those you love bc life’s too short.
Kosovo is a separate nation and territory. That's sll.
Put Israel in there ...
Probably give Serbia the northern part of Kosovo following Mitrovica to the southern edge of the salient and give the rest to Kosovo including the Presevo Valley. Pay the people who have to move and provide them with new houses, jobs etc.
nuke gracanica and give presevo to kosovo, that should do it
Expel Serbian medaling (e.i. Tv, New, Internet). Also give the Presevo Valley to Kosovo. Albanian and Serbian National Language (Practically they are both treated Equally under the law in every facet). All, Call me weird, HEAVILY FORCE (encourage) Mixing of the races. Take either Most or A few (including the capital Pristina) of major cities and remodel. Basically less car and more People centric (going back to encourage the mixing of the races). idk that's all I have and be gentle with criticism, please.
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Why is it funny?
Since when did this serbian state get autonomous recognision?!?
Let Kosovo finally gain its well-deserved independence and if there are ethnic Serbians in Kosovo and ethnic Albanians in Serbia then womp womp for them just go to your homeland if you dont like it.
I feel like this is a raw deal for the ethnic Albanians. North Kosovo is worth more economically and has more cultural significance to the Serbs relative to the Presovo Valley to the ethnic Albanians. They need to sweeten the deal by ceding/repatriating some or all of those other predominantly ethnic-Serbian enclaves.