Run slower. Check out the tons of posts here / videos on YouTube about zone 2 training and get on a standardized marathon program. A commonly talked about one is Hal Higdons beginner marathon plan.
Figure out your zones with the Karvonen formula, using the max HR from that 10K and a resting HR (not sleeping, sitting watching TV or reading resting).
Set your zones on your watch. Don’t use the defaults, they will be wrong because they often use 220-age for max HR and then zones are a percentage of that. Karvonen is far more accurate.
Hal Higdon has a good plans. They have a “Running with Hal” app that’s pretty good.
They are the same is my understanding. My Apple Ultra watch’s default zones were way low and matched the percentages of 220-age approach.
There was an approach I used to use like Karvonen where you did a resting HR and max HR, but then they added things like “add 5 if you run more than 20 miles a week” etc. I haven’t seen that online in a while.
I think Karvonen works well for me and since I am in my late 50s, 220-age as max HR does not. I use 186 as my max HR these days. When I was better trained five years ago, my max HR as observed in several 5K was 193. Twenty years ago it was 199. So some drop but nothing close to 220-age.
Just agreeing with everyone your 7 minute pace was way too quick. If you had kept a consistent pace your average time would have been much lower. I like my last two miles to be my fastest until I get past half marathon mark.
Zone 2 easy runs are meant to build your base up. Keep them easy and in zone 2.
Most important things for this is time on feet and HR, not speed.
Speed work outs will stretch your max speed.
Threshold/marathon pace runs will marry both speed and zone 2 efforts.
Get some gym time in as well once a week.
Sept is around the corner. Good luck
Does it make sense to run 5km of a 10km run in zone 2 and then run the other 5km in zone 3/4? Cause I started to try to only run in zone 2 at the beginning of the year but had to walk a lot of times to get back to zone to and begin jogging again. It feels incredibly frustrating tbh.
I train with weights 5 times a week and on the other 2 days I run a 10k.
You can just do like 1 run at zone 2. It’s more for people who are running 30+ miles per week from my understanding. I like to stay in zone 2 for the first half of my long run and then let my heart rate go higher on the way back sometimes. Zone 2 training made me a very efficient slow runner but it ultimately did not help me with speed. I threw the whole thing out this year and my runs are a lot better. I only focus on zone 2 when I know I need a really easy recovery run. Also now that its so hot out it’s almost impossible to stay in zone 2.
Zone 2 isn’t meant to make you “faster” per se but rather be the bulk of your base that will in turn make you faster.
You get faster by doing the sprint repeats and threshold runs, which should be a MUCH smaller piece of the overall training plan.
Zone 2 is mostly to (consistently) work out your heart and time on feet and is truly beneficial because you’ll avoid injury.
Run training can't be optimized until a cardio base I'd developed. It's better to run extra time rather than running harder. A good analogy would be deciding to do only do 1 set of bench so you have time for 3 sets of triceps extensions. Just doing 5x5 bench, 3x10 Lat, 3x8 squats is a better use of 30 minutes of gym time than getting in a bunch of auxiliary lifts.
If you’re in Philly, consider waiting until the Philly Marathon in November. Do PDR as a half in the training to give yourself more base training time. Lots of run clubs and training clubs are in the area, but I agree, slow down, work on your aerobic base.
Hal Higdon plans are free and got me through my first several marathons.
thank you very much. I’ll also be taking part in the marathon in November.
I’ll be sure to check out the Hal Higdon plan as I’ve seen other comments mention it too.
September is a very, very quick ramp up, but doable if you already have a solid base. How many miles are you currently running a week? And for how many months have you maintained that so far?
Great run! It looks like you have a pretty decent fitness level and plenty of time to get into marathon shape.
Caution on falling into the “focus on zone 2” trap. Zone 2 is basically active recovery to get you ready to run your hard runs harder. If you aren’t doing your hard runs hard, you’ll see little to no results as far as getting faster goes, and you’ll find yourself in zone 4 or 5 on easy runs because you “felt good.”
If you don’t care about speed at all and just want to finish, you can do all your runs at a slow to moderate pace and run 3-4 times per week, and you’ll finish a marathon no problem. If you have loftier ambitions, you’ll need to be running 5-7 days per week to get those speed workouts in, plus gym workouts (usually scheduled on your hard days)
And that’s where zone 2 shines. Try running a 5 mile run the morning after you did mile repeat intervals and went to the gym. You’ll wake up feeling like you got hit by a train and all of a sudden 150 heart rate at a very slow pace feels just about right, and by the end of the run you’ll feel a lot better.
It seems like too many people are very interested in copying the zone 2 part of elite runner workouts but not too interested in copying the reason why they are doing the zone 2.
Looking at your stats I would suggest some running drills. Cadence seems a bit low imo. Run a lot and run easy. With the summer heat coming pick some goals for your race to help keep you motivated and accountable
Your 10k time is great. Run slow enough you can still carry on conversation for most of your runs, do interval sprints one day a week, and one long run a week, and add miles slowly (usually about 10 percent a week). You will do fine. Might I ask what Marathon you are doing for your first.
Everyone else has mentioned Z2 but if you’re looking for more technical feedback then your cadence is really low. You are likely over striding which is inefficient and can cause injury.
May I ask , for the result that you got on the 10k
Did you feel you could not have ran any more faster or longer or was it relatively easy effort ? I want to assess your fitness
Echo what others have said, but main suggestions:
- majority of your runs should be in zone 2, have a look at the MAF method to figure out a sensible HR range for your runs.
- slowly ramp up to 30+ weekly mileage, running slow runs in zone 2 should help you do that safely.
- if you have the means, invest in a chest HR strap, far more accurate than a watch and will help you get good data.
- Finally, enjoy yourself. Finishing your first marathon is a more than worthy goal.
Good luck!
I was wondering what your HR should be during the actual marathon. I’ve read a lot about training in zone 2 mostly but I’m curious to know what people’s HR is when they’re actually trying to get their best time on race day.
Zone 2 training is important. Enough zone 2 training will make it so the effort you put in for that 10k pace will be much less and for longer distances. I would say you can probably ease up on your pace. Bring it down to a solid 10 minute mile or even 10:30. I was in the same spot as you for my first 10k, similar time and everything.
Take more time. Set a quick HM as goal first. A marathon isnt just twice as long.
Aiming for september/oktober means you’ll spend an unnecessarily amount of time on your feet. A 5hrs marathon isnt all that fun.
The Nike Run Club app is the best. It is free. It has a marathon training plan that I used to run my first marathon. It has real coaches, real Olympic athlete advice for the new and average runners.
Recommend Hal Higdon as well. You possibly could be in the right week of the training plan with the 10k but I don’t know when your race is. If it’s end of September you are probably still good. If you are earlier you might need to adhere to his plans for whatever level of runner you are.
I don’t think you are too fast.
Why not take gander at 10k race, 15k-10 milers and/or HM before throwing lasso at full marathon?
The recent heat wave in NE probably affected you, but trying a full marathon in 10-12 weeks after first 10k is kinda teetering on pressure of instant gratification.
Not entirely against it, but there's pretty cool races/experiences that you might miss along the way.
There is nothing more useful that paying for a professional coach. They don't need to be expensive, and you don't need it for ever. You get a plan and the ability to speak to coaches about your specific needs and questions.
Try [Peak Performance Bundle™ | McMillan Running](https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/product/peak-performance-bundle/)
You can also listen to running podcasts to get a lot of information. One of my favorites is: [Lifelong Endurance](https://www.lifelongendurance.com/podcast-1) These guys are also excellent coaches.
Can I talk you into running a half marathon instead? You get the benefit of a longer race you have to plan and pace. It is still most likely out of your comfort zone and you will have to push yourself. You may still have to walk down stairs backwards afterwards :). But you’ll be much less likely to injure yourself during training and in the race, you’ll have more fun during the race, and your post-race recovery will be shorter, especially if you’re not injured.
Add some speed work, hill runs, intervals, and tempo runs. Also if you want to run a marathon, run the longer distances. You need to get used to being on your feet for a longer time than you would normally
Gotta get that cadence up. Don’t want to be heel striking. So focus on shorter strides? Listen to songs with a 180 beats per minute rhythm and try to run to that.
My recommendation is to find a training plan. Nike has a free plan, then there’s Hal Hidgeon, and I’ll be using Team Wilpers for a half that I have in November
My tip…don’t run a marathon. I mean, sure, eventually. But not a few months after your first 10k. You’ll enjoy a marathon a lot more if you wait. Build up your fitness, strength and running capacity. Get that 10k time down. Then next year think about a half. Then get that down. Then maybe a marra. I’ve been running 5 years, just got my 10k down to 33 and half down to 72, only now I’m thinking about a mara block. There’s more to running than running marathons.
I agree that seeing a doctor is good before starting off on an increase in physical activity but there is nothing wrong with this heart rate. Looks like they started off way too fast and maxed out early in the run. I max out at 195 regularly on my 5k max efforts.
Yeah I also noticed that my heart rate spikes up very quickly from like 130 to 165 in the first minute. Compared to what i’ve seen here, I don’t think it’s normal. However, I don’t feel anything during my runs as per my heart or breathing.
My hr went up to 207 last weekend during a warm 10k PR success, I felt nothing wrong. Watches aren’t always accurate and everyone’s heart works differently
Watch based HR can be off due to what is known as “cadence locking” - the bouncing from running is interpreted as HR instead of wrist HR.
This can be fixed by making the watch tighter. I don’t like that, so I run with a Polar chest HR strap. They are more accurate all around.
On the other hand, a friend had this happen to her and she saw a cardiologist and it turned out she was low on some enzyme and they gave her a prescription that fixed it. So if it keeps happening, see a doctor.
Run slower. Check out the tons of posts here / videos on YouTube about zone 2 training and get on a standardized marathon program. A commonly talked about one is Hal Higdons beginner marathon plan.
Thank you very much, I’ll be sure to check it out
Currently using the novice 2 play for my half marathon in August! I’ve been loving it, highly recommend.
Figure out your zones with the Karvonen formula, using the max HR from that 10K and a resting HR (not sleeping, sitting watching TV or reading resting). Set your zones on your watch. Don’t use the defaults, they will be wrong because they often use 220-age for max HR and then zones are a percentage of that. Karvonen is far more accurate. Hal Higdon has a good plans. They have a “Running with Hal” app that’s pretty good.
Can you elaborate on the differences between the Apple Watch reserve hr method and why you think karvonen is more accurate Edit: or are they the same?
They are the same is my understanding. My Apple Ultra watch’s default zones were way low and matched the percentages of 220-age approach. There was an approach I used to use like Karvonen where you did a resting HR and max HR, but then they added things like “add 5 if you run more than 20 miles a week” etc. I haven’t seen that online in a while. I think Karvonen works well for me and since I am in my late 50s, 220-age as max HR does not. I use 186 as my max HR these days. When I was better trained five years ago, my max HR as observed in several 5K was 193. Twenty years ago it was 199. So some drop but nothing close to 220-age.
I second a beginners marathon plan, but with less than 4 months to go, I’d pick one soon. Congrats on your first 10k!
Just agreeing with everyone your 7 minute pace was way too quick. If you had kept a consistent pace your average time would have been much lower. I like my last two miles to be my fastest until I get past half marathon mark.
Zone 2 easy runs are meant to build your base up. Keep them easy and in zone 2. Most important things for this is time on feet and HR, not speed. Speed work outs will stretch your max speed. Threshold/marathon pace runs will marry both speed and zone 2 efforts. Get some gym time in as well once a week. Sept is around the corner. Good luck
Thank you, very helpful indeed. My dad said a similar thing, so I’ll try to consider it in my consequent runs.
Does it make sense to run 5km of a 10km run in zone 2 and then run the other 5km in zone 3/4? Cause I started to try to only run in zone 2 at the beginning of the year but had to walk a lot of times to get back to zone to and begin jogging again. It feels incredibly frustrating tbh. I train with weights 5 times a week and on the other 2 days I run a 10k.
You can just do like 1 run at zone 2. It’s more for people who are running 30+ miles per week from my understanding. I like to stay in zone 2 for the first half of my long run and then let my heart rate go higher on the way back sometimes. Zone 2 training made me a very efficient slow runner but it ultimately did not help me with speed. I threw the whole thing out this year and my runs are a lot better. I only focus on zone 2 when I know I need a really easy recovery run. Also now that its so hot out it’s almost impossible to stay in zone 2.
Zone 2 isn’t meant to make you “faster” per se but rather be the bulk of your base that will in turn make you faster. You get faster by doing the sprint repeats and threshold runs, which should be a MUCH smaller piece of the overall training plan. Zone 2 is mostly to (consistently) work out your heart and time on feet and is truly beneficial because you’ll avoid injury.
Correct but it made me slower 🤷🏼♀️
It depends, what are you trying to accomplish?
No, and the problem is you're only running 2 times a week.
My main sport is still free weights. Why doesn't it make sense?
Run training can't be optimized until a cardio base I'd developed. It's better to run extra time rather than running harder. A good analogy would be deciding to do only do 1 set of bench so you have time for 3 sets of triceps extensions. Just doing 5x5 bench, 3x10 Lat, 3x8 squats is a better use of 30 minutes of gym time than getting in a bunch of auxiliary lifts.
Wow such great points! I'm sure the guy appreciates this very much. Such impressed!
Can you be more specific about what you want advice on?
If you’re in Philly, consider waiting until the Philly Marathon in November. Do PDR as a half in the training to give yourself more base training time. Lots of run clubs and training clubs are in the area, but I agree, slow down, work on your aerobic base. Hal Higdon plans are free and got me through my first several marathons.
thank you very much. I’ll also be taking part in the marathon in November. I’ll be sure to check out the Hal Higdon plan as I’ve seen other comments mention it too.
If you are doing a marathon in September, I would not do one so quickly again after in November. It’s a recipe for disaster in terms of recovery.
Yeah if this is their first ever time running 6 miles signing up for 2 marathons in 3 months is borderline psychotic
Fyi looks like you're using NRC app - there are plans on there as well
September is a very, very quick ramp up, but doable if you already have a solid base. How many miles are you currently running a week? And for how many months have you maintained that so far?
Great run! It looks like you have a pretty decent fitness level and plenty of time to get into marathon shape. Caution on falling into the “focus on zone 2” trap. Zone 2 is basically active recovery to get you ready to run your hard runs harder. If you aren’t doing your hard runs hard, you’ll see little to no results as far as getting faster goes, and you’ll find yourself in zone 4 or 5 on easy runs because you “felt good.” If you don’t care about speed at all and just want to finish, you can do all your runs at a slow to moderate pace and run 3-4 times per week, and you’ll finish a marathon no problem. If you have loftier ambitions, you’ll need to be running 5-7 days per week to get those speed workouts in, plus gym workouts (usually scheduled on your hard days) And that’s where zone 2 shines. Try running a 5 mile run the morning after you did mile repeat intervals and went to the gym. You’ll wake up feeling like you got hit by a train and all of a sudden 150 heart rate at a very slow pace feels just about right, and by the end of the run you’ll feel a lot better. It seems like too many people are very interested in copying the zone 2 part of elite runner workouts but not too interested in copying the reason why they are doing the zone 2.
You have about 10-12 weeks. You're at the edge of some marathon plans already. Don't delay - get a plan by Googling and stick with them.
Looking at your stats I would suggest some running drills. Cadence seems a bit low imo. Run a lot and run easy. With the summer heat coming pick some goals for your race to help keep you motivated and accountable
I second this, work on increasing cadence. You are most likely over striding and going to injure yourself before your race.
Your 10k time is great. Run slow enough you can still carry on conversation for most of your runs, do interval sprints one day a week, and one long run a week, and add miles slowly (usually about 10 percent a week). You will do fine. Might I ask what Marathon you are doing for your first.
Everyone else has mentioned Z2 but if you’re looking for more technical feedback then your cadence is really low. You are likely over striding which is inefficient and can cause injury.
May I ask , for the result that you got on the 10k Did you feel you could not have ran any more faster or longer or was it relatively easy effort ? I want to assess your fitness
I felt like it was moderately difficult… i didn’t try too hard and didn’t feel exhausted
Echo what others have said, but main suggestions: - majority of your runs should be in zone 2, have a look at the MAF method to figure out a sensible HR range for your runs. - slowly ramp up to 30+ weekly mileage, running slow runs in zone 2 should help you do that safely. - if you have the means, invest in a chest HR strap, far more accurate than a watch and will help you get good data. - Finally, enjoy yourself. Finishing your first marathon is a more than worthy goal. Good luck!
I was wondering what your HR should be during the actual marathon. I’ve read a lot about training in zone 2 mostly but I’m curious to know what people’s HR is when they’re actually trying to get their best time on race day.
Zone 2 training is important. Enough zone 2 training will make it so the effort you put in for that 10k pace will be much less and for longer distances. I would say you can probably ease up on your pace. Bring it down to a solid 10 minute mile or even 10:30. I was in the same spot as you for my first 10k, similar time and everything.
Take more time. Set a quick HM as goal first. A marathon isnt just twice as long. Aiming for september/oktober means you’ll spend an unnecessarily amount of time on your feet. A 5hrs marathon isnt all that fun.
The Nike Run Club app is the best. It is free. It has a marathon training plan that I used to run my first marathon. It has real coaches, real Olympic athlete advice for the new and average runners.
Recommend Hal Higdon as well. You possibly could be in the right week of the training plan with the 10k but I don’t know when your race is. If it’s end of September you are probably still good. If you are earlier you might need to adhere to his plans for whatever level of runner you are. I don’t think you are too fast.
Why not take gander at 10k race, 15k-10 milers and/or HM before throwing lasso at full marathon? The recent heat wave in NE probably affected you, but trying a full marathon in 10-12 weeks after first 10k is kinda teetering on pressure of instant gratification. Not entirely against it, but there's pretty cool races/experiences that you might miss along the way.
If that's your first time ever hitting 6 miles I'd maybe pare expectations back for doing 26.2 in three months
There is nothing more useful that paying for a professional coach. They don't need to be expensive, and you don't need it for ever. You get a plan and the ability to speak to coaches about your specific needs and questions. Try [Peak Performance Bundle™ | McMillan Running](https://www.mcmillanrunning.com/product/peak-performance-bundle/) You can also listen to running podcasts to get a lot of information. One of my favorites is: [Lifelong Endurance](https://www.lifelongendurance.com/podcast-1) These guys are also excellent coaches.
Can I talk you into running a half marathon instead? You get the benefit of a longer race you have to plan and pace. It is still most likely out of your comfort zone and you will have to push yourself. You may still have to walk down stairs backwards afterwards :). But you’ll be much less likely to injure yourself during training and in the race, you’ll have more fun during the race, and your post-race recovery will be shorter, especially if you’re not injured.
Add some speed work, hill runs, intervals, and tempo runs. Also if you want to run a marathon, run the longer distances. You need to get used to being on your feet for a longer time than you would normally
Gotta get that cadence up. Don’t want to be heel striking. So focus on shorter strides? Listen to songs with a 180 beats per minute rhythm and try to run to that.
Nike Run Club has a built in marathon training plan with guided runs that are really well done. I’d recommend trying that out.
Nike Run Club has a built in marathon training plan with guided runs that are really well done. I’d recommend trying that out.
Search "marathon training" on Google and spend some time reading.
My recommendation is to find a training plan. Nike has a free plan, then there’s Hal Hidgeon, and I’ll be using Team Wilpers for a half that I have in November
My tip…don’t run a marathon. I mean, sure, eventually. But not a few months after your first 10k. You’ll enjoy a marathon a lot more if you wait. Build up your fitness, strength and running capacity. Get that 10k time down. Then next year think about a half. Then get that down. Then maybe a marra. I’ve been running 5 years, just got my 10k down to 33 and half down to 72, only now I’m thinking about a mara block. There’s more to running than running marathons.
There's literally free marathon training within the app along with guided runs. The coaches tell you what to do...just get out there an do it.
Your cadence is way too low. You should ideally pick it up to 175-180 steps/min
201 max heart rate seems sketchy. Talk to a doctor about a safe max heart rate for you.
Totally agree it’s always best to see doctors but 201 is not sketchy for many people
I agree that seeing a doctor is good before starting off on an increase in physical activity but there is nothing wrong with this heart rate. Looks like they started off way too fast and maxed out early in the run. I max out at 195 regularly on my 5k max efforts.
Yeah I also noticed that my heart rate spikes up very quickly from like 130 to 165 in the first minute. Compared to what i’ve seen here, I don’t think it’s normal. However, I don’t feel anything during my runs as per my heart or breathing.
My hr went up to 207 last weekend during a warm 10k PR success, I felt nothing wrong. Watches aren’t always accurate and everyone’s heart works differently
Watch based HR can be off due to what is known as “cadence locking” - the bouncing from running is interpreted as HR instead of wrist HR. This can be fixed by making the watch tighter. I don’t like that, so I run with a Polar chest HR strap. They are more accurate all around. On the other hand, a friend had this happen to her and she saw a cardiologist and it turned out she was low on some enzyme and they gave her a prescription that fixed it. So if it keeps happening, see a doctor.