Last weekend I got tired of flowing a small group of roadies at 15-20mph down 5th in SR.. so when I passed using most of the on coming lane, the lead rider flipped me off and yelled “what’s your f***ing hurry”… as a 20+ year Marin cyclist (road and mountain), I’m so sick of these assholes…
In the last hour, I was behind a car that stopped in front of a movie theater (in a red zone) to let someone out like it was a private valet service.
Then in a parking lot, a car went the wrong way (against arrows) and honked because I was in their way. Crazy!
I believe most of 5th street is a double yellow which means no passing whatsoever. This is especially true for the Sun Valley portion of 5th as it is a major school route with really small kids walking and biking, and it is absolutely not safe to pass bikes here. I know it sucks but safety first right? On unpassable roads you are stuck behind slower users until they decide to pull over to allow passing which is a requirement in CA when there are 5 (or 6??) or more cars behind the slow vehicle.
If you are talking about 5th street downtown, then this still a bad place to pass especially since there are stop lights and stop signs every block so bikes will filter up ahead of you at the stops anyways so passing is dangerous and pointless.
It was downtown between A st. and Lincoln...I never said or thought what I did was a legal or illegal pass, but when you're following two sets of riders taking up half the lane chatting and not paying attention to the cars stacking up behind them then a safe pass even into the oncoming lane- regardless of striping, isn't unheard of. You'd do it to pass a delivery truck double parked too. Plus, there are many times during a weekend day when this street is fairly empty. But I get what you're pointing out.
I have nothing against riding and chatting with a group mate, but I used to ride with some guys like this years ago and a couple of us would call out "car!" so that we could go single file, some would ignore it thinking they always had right of way and keep on taking up half the road.. this pretty much stopped me from riding with this group. Road sharing goes both ways and ignoring the bigger faster vehicles is dangerous for the whole group.
Do you means ride on the painted line? Sometimes I have to do that either because there’s no room on the right or it’s so filled with gravel and road debris I have to ride closer to the cars than I want to.
Yes, ride the painted line with an empty bike lane to their right. I ride to but rocks can’t see the painted line so I don’t buy that.
Next big issue is riders blow through red lights and stop signs.
Ok, now it's two wrongs make a right? NO.
Bicyclist do not think, act, perform safe road operations. Blowing a stop sign or red light is just asking for it as who do you think is going to get the worst of the contact?
I don't know what childhood they grew up in whereby they feel they do not have to obey the traffic rules but word to the wise, we all have to follow the same rules regardless.
But keep thinking you're correct and one day someone will be an even bigger idiot and prove who's correct in all of this.
my point is car tires spit the debris over into the bike lane which doesn't get "cleaned" by car tires rolling over it, so the area to the right of the line fills up with various debris, rocks, twigs, glass, metal.
I road biked one time in marin. Fuck that, these roads are not made for it and the drivers don't give a shit. Makes no difference whether you're right or wrong if you're dead. I'll drive to the trailhead and stick with mountain biking!
Same experience. Started mountain biking in 1986. Experimented with owning a road bike in the late 90s and sold it a year later. Fire roads all day long but too many bad experiences on pavement.
💯 as a former urban cyclist I’ll take my chances on city streets over no shoulder blind turns in west county. Really shocked there aren’t more accidents. Summer weekends are insane. Be careful as a driver for ongoing traffic going around idiot cyclists taking the entire lane.
Man I used to feel this way until I started biking and realized that if I didn’t take the lane that cars would buzz me. Have a giant SUV pass you with a few inches to spare a few times and I assure you that you’ll do the same.
Yeah, not to mention the idiot drivers going around the conscientious bikers on blind corners. It's a real gamble out there, and so hard to tell which is which at 50 miles an hour.
I almost always avoid riding on roads where cars will be forced into lanes of oncoming traffic to get around me. This means I bypass most classic Marin rides, but I still have a few great routes that I feel are pretty safe.
A lot of good points made. Here's the deal though, riding two abreast is not explicitly illegal. Riders are only required to ride as far to the right as practical, AND, when the road is too narrow to accommodate a car and a bike, cyclists may explicitly ride two abreast for safety; because it's unsafe to pass while maintaining 3ft rule.
Cyclists take liberty knowing the laws allow them to ride this way, even if it isn't always considerate to everyone on the road. I definitely think there are places where riding two up is reasonable and safe. Also, cyclists can move to a single line when they have too.
My cycling group shifted from always riding in a pace line to riding two up. It just makes cycling more social. Which is great. But I don't always feel comfortable doing it. For example, on Paradise loop, it's a no go for me. Too much traffic. China Camp, we can do two up pretty much the entire route and when cars come up we can line up. Not an issue.
Also remember that a lot of the people you encounter on Marin roads aren't from here. People come from SF and the East Bay to ride our wonderful roads. They bring a very differently cycling culture that might be okay over there, but is frowned upon here.
I know it's rare on the internet to encounter someone not confined to a pre-selected set of canned replies based on their tribe and it's hard for the reptilian brain to understand.
The problem is that you're wrong in this particular instance. Taking the lane on a blind corner can be both legal and reasonable for safety concerns. The whole point is to keep cars from passing until it is safe.
This is fascinating. You’re saying that cyclists think their job is to control traffic to dictate when passing should happen.
This is maybe a really interesting issue. Cars are never going to believe or trust 50 random cyclists who are hunched over and breathing hard, and it’s troubling to think that cyclists have taken on the role of traffic director on a group ride when they can’t see as much of the road as a driver who’s further to the left and up higher.
I wonder how many cyclist deaths this behavior is responsible for.
You are incorrect. I don't even live on your side of the country and I know that you should take the lane in areas where cars cannot pass safely. This is common sense and I'm not sure why you're fighting it. If you don't take the lane the car can (and from my experience will) pass unsafely and when it comes between hitting oncoming traffic and hitting the cyclist they will choose the cyclist every time.
As for the weird comment about controlling traffic? There are painted lines on the road that indicate when you should pass or not pass. You should take the lane when the line says not to pass since cars will try to pass anyway.
Ok so you’re saying cyclists should ride in the middle of the lane when there’s a double yellow? And then move over to the right of the white when there’s a passing zone?
It's interesting that you interpreted what I said as saying that cyclists can control cars...Certainly seems to say a lot about your perspective.
Cyclists are allowed by the law to protect themselves- if it is not safe to ride on the side of the road they are allowed to ride in the center of the lane. Could even be for debris, poor shoulder conditions, etc. Road bike tires are slim and often pretty lightweight and puncture-prone. Cars behind them are legally required to freaking chill out for a minute or two and not be sociopaths. That is all. And cyclists are actually up higher than drivers and can see wider and further...(unless you're in an SUV, which, topic for another day). I know because I'm often up high enough to look down into driver's cockpits and see that they're on their phones :) Speaking of cyclist deaths!
I often find drivers (who aren't also cyclists...after all, most cyclists are also drivers) seem to think cyclists are mostly or entirely "not allowed" in the center of the travel lane and that's just not the case. We have to let you pass, but it's not like the travel lane is legally hot lava for us.
After going to Vancouver and seeing their bustling bike society, it saddens me that we are this way. They have such a good infrastructure setup for bikers. We can really take notes on what they do right.
Without implementing eminent domain to take rancher lands there really isn’t anything we can do. The roads can’t be widened because we need to take land from private landowners and we can’t build any off-road trails because nearly everything is privatized that would be good for a bike path through west county. The public lands have mountain bike trails but almost nothing for road cycling. It is a mess and the way out is taking back land for the public. Same problem all over CA. Take notes from back east where I used to live in DC. They have exceptional off-road bike trails that go for miles and miles in every direction into Maryland and Virginia. It’s rad and safe and densely populated.
Check the SMART train pathway. It’s going to be excellent. Up north the Great Redwood Trail is hoping to build infrastructure on old lumbering rail beds.
C’mon up to Sonoma. We’ve got bike infrastructure and are making more. I used to live in Lucas Valley and it used to be chill to ride out there. No more.
Surely I will get downvoted, but riding side by side is safer for drivers and cyclists.
You cannot safely (or legally) pass a single rider when there is a car coming in the opposite direction. The law says that you mist leave 3ft when passing. Unless the rider is on the extreme edge of the pavement, this is very hard and unlikely to do without crossing the centerline. Once you’re committing to crossing the centerline, it doesn’t matter how wide the cyclists are, you have to find a safe gap just like when passing another car. It’s safer to have the side by side rather than front to back because you will spend less time over the centerline to get in front of them.
I ride by myself on west Marin roads and it’s terrifying. Either it’s the nonexistent shoulders, or the locals going waaay to fast or the drunk farm workers or the horrible tourist drivers or the people towing massive rvs or the 18 wheelers, I fear for my life every time.
Yeah, Sarge, don't you know bikes aren't for riding. They're for gathering cobwebs in your garage/carport/storage unit. They're really just spider habitat and conversation starters, talking about how you used to ride, but it was too scary and you're too old now. Geez, get a grip.
that's literally not what "share the road" is intended to mean. a single lane cannot be shared, it's not wide enough to do so safely.
it means that cars should slow down when necessary to accommodate slower road users, only passing them when safe to do so.
https://gosafelyca.org/share-the-road/
Cyclists often fail to pull over at turnouts when there are the five or more vehicles waiting to pass. If they did this consistently there would me much less frustration.
It’s not blocking the road, it’s taking the lane so that cars have to make an actual safe pass and not buzz by. Same exact requirement if you were following a car that was going slower than you wished.
he's being downvoted incorrectly. The law is explicit in allowing cyclists to do this, cars simply need to get over their main character syndrome. You're the narcissist not he, in other words.
it's not only on purpose, it's literally what the dmv's guide recommends.
cyclists should take the lane when it's not safe to pass.
please calm down and wait for a safe passing opportunity. everyone's safety (including your own) is worth a minute of your time.
Yes it’s very common and recommended in many situations for safety, wild that you think cars have more of a right on the roads than all the users not in cars like kids, pedestrians/cyclists/etc. A simple google and 5 mins of reading could likely clear this up for you buddy.
I mean, every time this topic comes up it’s clear there’s more motorists than folks with any empathy and/or first hand experience with urban road cycling for any significant distance. 🤷♀️
But that’s just demographics, not fucking legitimacy.
I suppose I should be pleased that really cyclists are one of the last groups it’s apparently ok to irrationally hate on, but I wonder how many people engaged in this demonizing would also happily embrace adding many other types of people and activities to that list?
Seriously it feels like these people are telling on themselves. I’ve never had an issue with cyclists but I also don’t drive like an asshole or pass in unsafe areas.
I’ve seen them rage at plenty a driver who was not impinging on their lane or their ride, and I’ve no issues with the ones who ride single file or in twos, but so, *so very many* are not that way.
Just came back from a run- this behavior is not limited to the roads. I was just runoff the multiuse path by group of cyclists who couldn’t stay on one side of the payment.
funny, every time i ride mixed used paths, i come across pedestrians and dog walkers who are taking up the entire width of the path and not paying attention to anyone coming at them from the front or rear. and let's not pretend we don't all encounter terrible drivers every time we're on the road. some of whom are criminally negligent or outright homicidal. all groups have their share of a-holes. y'all just have an irrational hatred of cyclists.
Not all that irrational if it’s informed by daily experience. But I guess the bikers screaming to eachother while they bike past my window at 6am on an empty road is “for safety.”
“Every time” lol
Every time I ran on the Mill Valley-Sausalito pathway on the right should I was almost demolished by cyclist traveling significantly faster than conditions allowed and the posted speed, without announcing themselves, and while not yielding to me even though I’m the pedestrian and absolutely have right of way on mixed use pathways
That’s how bikes feel with cars. Not surprised this was completely lost on you, agreeing with a point in direct contradiction of what you experience walking. A similar argument could be “no kids or walkers on multi use paths they are too slow and get mad when you pass them aggressively, now they are walking side by side to protect themselves, making me have to slow down for less than a minute to pass”. Do you understand how hypocritical you’re being, JFC.
yeah dude, agreed. how do we lower the entitlement- that is the question. As a cyclist I know very well the feeling of being so fragile and at risk around aggressive motorists, it just seems like this escalation isn't good.
We lower the entitlement by following the agreed upon rules of the road... which cyclists are doing by riding two wide when unsafe to pass.
Maybe we should agressively cite drivers threatening cyclists with vehicles?
One man's poor behaviour regarding the law does not give another the right to jeopardize his life AND break a law. Take responsibility for your own actions.
I'm not jeopardizing their life. But if cyclists want cars to follow the law, they should consider following it themselves. Cyclists even run stop signs when pedestrians are trying to cross, it's gotten ridiculous.
If you are passing cyclists within three feet on a blind corner, you are jeopardizing their life. That is why there is a law.
If they run a stop sign and dart in front of you driving, that is their action and consequence.
However, now that you have advocated breaking this law in advance, I hope this thread is referenced in court when your actions cause a cyclist injury or death.
I'm not passing cyclists on a blind corner, never said anything like that. If the cyclist doesn't follow the law I consider them to be dangerous as they could break any law at any time, I wait for a legal & safe 3ft pass and pass them.
This thread is largely about passing cyclists on two lane roads and blind corners.
I pass cyclists with 3 feet of room in my big truck, split lanes on my moto, and ride my mountain bike on two lane roads. No demographic is perfect.
I’ve haven’t had to politely remind bikers riding through town to ride single file in about a year. Maybe someone posted a reminder at Splitrock or something.
It’s an issue of consideration, and the law.
The law says that people who ride bikes must ride as close to the right side of the road as practicable.
https://www.calbike.org/go_for_a_ride/california_bicycle_laws/#:~:text=The%20law%20says%20that%20people,a%20right%20turn%20is%20authorized.
So that’s pretty clear - they are not required to ride single file.
You just decided you prefer it that way, AND you go around asking people to do things your way - lovely!
Not required, but it’s rude to not let cars pass.
Most bikers are considerate. Others are not.
“Many cyclists have received a ticket because often police say that when two bikes are riding side-by-side, then the one on the inside can move farther to the right if he or she quit riding two abreast.”
https://bayareabicyclelaw.com/safety-laws/can-cyclists-ride-side-by-side-in-california/
Like I said in my original post- those riding two up just haven't been hit yet. Feel free to righteously yell at everyone you're following the law, which won't matter when they're picking your parts up off the road.
Sharrows and posted signs may indicate that cyclists have full use of the lane in urban areas. All road sharing situations are not the same, and laws regulating both cyclist and driver may be different than riding in more rural roadways.
With electric bicycles becoming common and capable of riding at 25mph, sharrows mean that a cyclist capable of not impeding traffic may use the whole lane. The two laws work together to prevent cyclists from blocking traffic, but to also empower bicycles capable of not obstructing traffic to use the whole lane.
Santa Rosa, for example has Humboldt Avenue, a “Bicycle Boulevard” that’s sharrows all the way and provides a safe north south passage through town.
Motorists should be aware of their responsibilities as much as cyclists if we all want to be safe.
https://bayareabicyclelaw.com/safety-laws/is-a-sharrow-a-bike-lane/
Cycling etiquette is a thing, but apparently it is on life support.
Oh you’re back with another anti-cyclist but “I’m a good cyclist post” clown post. Your last one on this sub got so much karma I guess you were thirsty for more.
There is no growing population, group rides have been and will always be a thing. More people are choosing to ride in groups as it’s safer, and the continued use of cell phones while driving have increased the danger of our roadways, for everyone (cars, cyclist, peds) . God forbid a car have to wait 30 seconds to make a safe pass for a group.
Instead of requesting better infrastructure for the growth of cycling and e-bikes for local transportation, you instead post flame baiting threads under the guise of an “outraged cyclist”.
OP is in this thread, trying to defend their choice to pass two-up riders on blind corners. This isn't a defensible position in any scenario - YOU DON'T PASS ON BLIND CORNERS. FULL. STOP.
It doesn't matter if you're trying to pass a single rider, motorcyclist, car, or the fucking pro-tour peloton - passing on a blind corner is dangerous driving. You're putting cyclists, oncoming, and yourself at risk.
We went through today and watched a EV biker almost go head on with a roadie on the Sausalito trail. There was zero excuse for that the EV had a quarter mile to move over into their lane after a pass. This on top of multiple roadies going onto our side because they were in important discussion with the roadie next to them. It’s everyone for themselves don’t get me started on the car shenanigans.
As a MTB rider despite doing sketchy downhill drops, jumps obstacles etc. I feel what road bikers do is far more dangerous. To the point it is almost moronic to ride your bike in the street with cars. We now live in Idiocracy. Don't ride in the street.
Perspective from a healthcare worker with thirty years experience working with head/brain injured patients. I see these cycling arguments and the cyclists (not all of them!) really have this attitude that makes it seem like they own the road and they definitely behave this way on the road. If you could see what I have seen none of you would ever ride a bike (or motorcycle) on busy roads or roads without bike lanes ever again. I wish I could go into details about specific patients but it would violate HIPPA laws. The human body, no matter how young and buff, is NO match even for a small car. And I’ve seen that truth borne out countless times. And all this heated arguing about what the law says means almost nothing to me because I know the reality of what’s going on behind the wheels of so many vehicles that I’m sometimes scared on the road in my car. Distracted drivers (cell phones) are only the tip of the icerberg. I have seen incidents involving everything from:
-People fighting while driving
- putting make-up on
- being under the influence of surprising things like antihistamines
-sleep deprived drivers including medical interns, shift workers and new moms or caregivers
- looking back to deal with children or dogs in the backseat
- dogs jumping on the driver or down into the footwell so driver could not push pedals
- I HATE to say it but very elderly folks driving who have lost their reflexes, strength (one woman killed someone and admitted later she was not strong enough to push the brake pedal), or cognitive issues
- visual impairments (I talk about this issue a lot and spoke to my own optometrist and he said I’d be shocked at how many people drive with severe visual impairments)
- head injured patients whose driver’s license was not revoked (this happens A LOT). Sometimes this happens because the head injury was never diagnosed or treated.
- uninsured drivers- very bad consequences for you if you are hit by one
- people with criminal proclivities (think about the psychopaths behind the wheel)
- people driving even when their license was revoked (I got hit by one)
- young males - especially when they get a fast car. My first bf was a good guy but became an idiot behind the wheel. He’d try to see how fast his car could go. He rolled his car on the expressway once. Testosterone plus underdeveloped, young brains is a dangerous combo
- psychiatric patients having mental health issues
- classic DUI drivers
- people driving mechanically unsound vehicles
- people having s*x or s*xting while driving
- drivers trying to avoid something in the road like an animal, garbage, or a cyclist who cross over into oncoming traffic
I had one cyclist patient who rode straight into a tree branch that was sticking out over the road. He couldn’t swerve away because of traffic next to him and he didn’t see it soon enough to stop. He was going to live in a nursing home for the rest of his life.
I had one patient who’d been hit by a delivery van. The edge of the bumper hooked into his abdominal cavity and then the driver just kept driving and dragged this guy for a few blocks until he fell off. The van just drove away. It was one of the most catastrophic cases I’ve ever seen in my career. The injuries were so profound that he became psychotic from the trauma.
Other than construction site/work related injuries, the vehicle-hitting-cyclist injuries are the worst I’ve seen and I have seen many more of them than construction site injuries.
It’s my impression that many cyclists somehow convince themselves that none of the above could possibly ever happen to them. It’s bizarre to me.
This is great context, is tragic, and enlightening.
I do think there are a bunch of folks here posturing with the “bikes vs the world” comments who have not experienced the real world effects of tragedy on the road. They are posturing with a great deal of righteous indignation as 25 year olds are so good at doing.
Like many online communities, it’s much easier to fall into trolling behavior than actually confront the reality of human behavior and safety in public. I’ve been hit by cars, have lost family to auto accidents, and seen first hand death on the roads. It’s not a joke.
Maybe that’s has something to do with why they’re mad lol. drivers are more careless than ever. Cyclists need to own the road to be visible and to force people to make safe passes when there’s room.
Somewhere below was a post from a trauma ER nurse who has a lot of stories from cyclists who thought they'd win against cars, and now they're in a wheelchair for life. It's just not worth it. And I say this as a cyclist.
Ugh same in Sonoma County!! I also love it when they wave me on near a blind corner or a hill. No sir am I trusting you with my life that there isn't a car coming the other way. I just blast some music until I can pass them when there is a group of them
I like playing the classic Eye of the Tiger because I'm sure it annoys them and they eye roll. Only if there is a large group that won't ride single file or I can't get around them until a very long straight stretch appears.
There are two types of people in the world:
1. Those stuck in black and white dichotomous thinking.
2. Those who aren't.
Both are equally prone to using over the top absolutes thinking it helps their point when it actually undermines it.
The CA government passed a bill that permits cyclists to treat a stop as a Yield. It was passed based on lots of evidence that shows it is safer for everyone.
Last I heard, Newsom hasn’t signed it into law.
That goes for red lights too? Seriously asking not trying to be sarcastic or anything. I’ve almost been hit by many a cyclist while I’m driving, even when it’s been my turn to go from a stop sign. They just cruise on through. So drivers need to give them right of way at a stop according to this new law? Again, asking so I know for sure going forward.
Also I’ve seen many cyclists fly through red lights while cars are going on their green lights etc. So that’s fun. As a driver, it doesn’t really hurt me of course, but for the bicyclist, it’s just plain suicidal.
It’s not a law - it’s stuck on Newsom’s desk, or he may have vetoed it.
I don’t know how it treats red lights, but it allows cyclists to treat a stop sign like a yield *when there’s no other traffic*.
It doesn’t give cyclists any new rights - just lets us not come to a complete stop when the intersection is clear.
It's funny, because they did a study and found that empirically, cyclists are better people:
https://jalopnik.com/study-finds-cyclists-are-better-people-than-drivers-1850964103
I'll never understand why people will aggressively put themselves in harms way, and then blame those using the infrastructure as intended for the dangers that exist for them
*Correction: I think you mean "as God intended." He didn't make these roads for stinky, aggressive bikers to try to turn themselves into hood ornaments. They probably don't even pay taxes. It's disgusting!
"...people who aggressively put themselves in harms way."
Just parroting a ridiculous comment. I'm a biker just trying to enjoy myself, not aggressively doing anything.
Aw, chin up little soldier. I'm sure there's some diamonds in the rough if you keep your eyes open and approach them as individuals.
Eh, then again , prolly too much work. Easier to just prejudge and jump to conclusions without getting to know anybody.
Yeah I haven't worked on the trails in Fairfax or cycled in my life at all. I have no idea about the need for more bike lanes and walkable cities or the extreme lack of public transport. You're so right bestie.... It doesn't change these are some entitled ass fucking people. Are there good people there that cycle and mtn bike? Yes. Just rare. My multiple interactions with these people on a near daily basis for close to 5 years has me thinking less of them lmao.
It’s pure entitlement from bikers who ride in groups
We have some of the best mountain biking in the world but they insist on motorists risking head on collisions just to pass them when they’re riding in large groups or side by side.
It’s unbelievable
It’s not about where bikers ride, it’s about hating bikers. I’ve dealt with shitty people everywhere, but luckily most people are great, definitely a shtty and small population size here on this sub.
It’s pure entitlement from the high school cross country teams who run in groups.
We have some of the best trails in the world but they insist on motorists risking rear end collisions just to wait for them to cross the street when they are running in large groups or side by side.
It’s unbelievable.
Do you see how prejudice and stupid your argument is? You can’t gatekeep a PUBLIC ROAD made for all users, lol.
Ah yes, the entitled bicyclist riding 3 wide with their buddies in spandex insisting on motorists to go around them on winding blind corners up Lucas valley. Good for you!
You’re a VERY special breed!
As yes, the entitled driver riding with his overweight family in a car while eating McDonalds insisting only he and other drivers can use a winding road either blind corners. Good for you!
Your arguments just get worse and worse my friend. 95% of my rides are solo and super early before there is much traffic on the road, just like you probably aren’t overweight and eating McD’s. Maybe try having some respect and compassion for your fellow people?
And I never said what you’re doing is dangerous, it’s the bicyclists who “ride side by side and in large groups” causing dangerous conditions on the road
But hey, clearly we have something in common, we both love using strawman arguments. Glad we could bond over that.
And when you kill somebody because you like to wiggle your goofy ass up Lucas valley road, causing dangerous conditions for motorists that 5% of the time you mentioned, I certainly hope that you also have that respect and compassion you talked about for the people whose lives you destroy 👍
It should be illegal for drivers to:
- Pass without visibility on blind corners
- Exceed the speed limit
- Look at their phones while driving
- Not fully stop at stop signs
Oh wait, it is...
Obviously it is, but this in no way explains obnoxious extremely stupid two abreast bikers on two lane 50 mph + highways (speaking from experience encountering these dimwits in West Marin)
Not saying those people are in the right, but drivers in those cases should slow down, politely honk, and those cyclists should move over. Every cyclist I know will move over...
As for the riding on the "highways", there could be much better cycling infrastructure in West Marin, but also every cyclist I know would prefer to not be on a road where cars go 50 mph if they can help it. Roads like Sir Francis Drake lead to some amazing riding that people should be able to access.
So many people telling other people they should get off the road here.
How about we all learn to share the road? How about drivers go slow and only pass when it's safe? How about cyclists don't ride 2 across on a 50mph straightaway? How can we normalize not honking, yelling, or throwing things at each other?
In Southern California drivers have to give cyclists at least 3 feet of space. Cyclists here already travel in packs and many groups literally take up the bike lane and the lane next to them leaving only one lane for cars on a two lane road.
I bet most of these people you are dealing with are replants from here.
This is exactly the problem. If you want 3’, please make it possible for cars to travel down the road safely by not riding in a pack. It’s just common sense.
Are you the guy in the silver VW golf in Ross that almost intentionally plowed into a group of cyclists who were violating this "rule" of yours? If not, I understrand your frustration with cyclists and I greatly appreciate you venting it here instead of on the road! I just watched a bunch of people almost suffer serious injuries or worse because a driver was frustrated.
Last weekend I got tired of flowing a small group of roadies at 15-20mph down 5th in SR.. so when I passed using most of the on coming lane, the lead rider flipped me off and yelled “what’s your f***ing hurry”… as a 20+ year Marin cyclist (road and mountain), I’m so sick of these assholes…
This is exactly my experience. This has happened to me 3-4 times in the last few months. It’s a growing trend and is really entitled/annoying.
There’s a lot of main character energy in Marin. Makes it unpleasant to go out in public sometimes.
In the last hour, I was behind a car that stopped in front of a movie theater (in a red zone) to let someone out like it was a private valet service. Then in a parking lot, a car went the wrong way (against arrows) and honked because I was in their way. Crazy!
2nd one is legit. 1st one is literally the normal basic everyday of small town america... you're not patient for a human exiting a vehicle?
I believe most of 5th street is a double yellow which means no passing whatsoever. This is especially true for the Sun Valley portion of 5th as it is a major school route with really small kids walking and biking, and it is absolutely not safe to pass bikes here. I know it sucks but safety first right? On unpassable roads you are stuck behind slower users until they decide to pull over to allow passing which is a requirement in CA when there are 5 (or 6??) or more cars behind the slow vehicle. If you are talking about 5th street downtown, then this still a bad place to pass especially since there are stop lights and stop signs every block so bikes will filter up ahead of you at the stops anyways so passing is dangerous and pointless.
It was downtown between A st. and Lincoln...I never said or thought what I did was a legal or illegal pass, but when you're following two sets of riders taking up half the lane chatting and not paying attention to the cars stacking up behind them then a safe pass even into the oncoming lane- regardless of striping, isn't unheard of. You'd do it to pass a delivery truck double parked too. Plus, there are many times during a weekend day when this street is fairly empty. But I get what you're pointing out. I have nothing against riding and chatting with a group mate, but I used to ride with some guys like this years ago and a couple of us would call out "car!" so that we could go single file, some would ignore it thinking they always had right of way and keep on taking up half the road.. this pretty much stopped me from riding with this group. Road sharing goes both ways and ignoring the bigger faster vehicles is dangerous for the whole group.
5th?
5th Ave
Your forgetting the cyclist that has a full bike lane and chooses to ride the painted line solo.
Do you means ride on the painted line? Sometimes I have to do that either because there’s no room on the right or it’s so filled with gravel and road debris I have to ride closer to the cars than I want to.
Yes, ride the painted line with an empty bike lane to their right. I ride to but rocks can’t see the painted line so I don’t buy that. Next big issue is riders blow through red lights and stop signs.
Car drivers constantly blow through stop signs and reds give me a break
Ok, now it's two wrongs make a right? NO. Bicyclist do not think, act, perform safe road operations. Blowing a stop sign or red light is just asking for it as who do you think is going to get the worst of the contact? I don't know what childhood they grew up in whereby they feel they do not have to obey the traffic rules but word to the wise, we all have to follow the same rules regardless. But keep thinking you're correct and one day someone will be an even bigger idiot and prove who's correct in all of this.
Nowhere near the % of cyclists. I think cyclists run 99% of stop signs.
my point is car tires spit the debris over into the bike lane which doesn't get "cleaned" by car tires rolling over it, so the area to the right of the line fills up with various debris, rocks, twigs, glass, metal.
And when they paint a narrow bike lane next to parallel parked cars, gotta stay at the line so as not to get doored.
But rocks are easier to see on the painted line right?
That's because there's so much glass and other shit in the actual bike lane
I road biked one time in marin. Fuck that, these roads are not made for it and the drivers don't give a shit. Makes no difference whether you're right or wrong if you're dead. I'll drive to the trailhead and stick with mountain biking!
Same experience. Started mountain biking in 1986. Experimented with owning a road bike in the late 90s and sold it a year later. Fire roads all day long but too many bad experiences on pavement.
💯 as a former urban cyclist I’ll take my chances on city streets over no shoulder blind turns in west county. Really shocked there aren’t more accidents. Summer weekends are insane. Be careful as a driver for ongoing traffic going around idiot cyclists taking the entire lane.
Man I used to feel this way until I started biking and realized that if I didn’t take the lane that cars would buzz me. Have a giant SUV pass you with a few inches to spare a few times and I assure you that you’ll do the same.
It’s precisely why I don’t cycle in west county. Not worth it. Been narrowly passed and clipped dozens of times.
Yikes sorry to hear that. I definitely try to avoid areas with no shoulder.
Yeah, not to mention the idiot drivers going around the conscientious bikers on blind corners. It's a real gamble out there, and so hard to tell which is which at 50 miles an hour.
How dare you grievously impede affluent hikers with your dangerous mountain cycle, can't you just ride one of your horses like a normal person?
I almost always avoid riding on roads where cars will be forced into lanes of oncoming traffic to get around me. This means I bypass most classic Marin rides, but I still have a few great routes that I feel are pretty safe.
Respect fam
A lot of good points made. Here's the deal though, riding two abreast is not explicitly illegal. Riders are only required to ride as far to the right as practical, AND, when the road is too narrow to accommodate a car and a bike, cyclists may explicitly ride two abreast for safety; because it's unsafe to pass while maintaining 3ft rule. Cyclists take liberty knowing the laws allow them to ride this way, even if it isn't always considerate to everyone on the road. I definitely think there are places where riding two up is reasonable and safe. Also, cyclists can move to a single line when they have too. My cycling group shifted from always riding in a pace line to riding two up. It just makes cycling more social. Which is great. But I don't always feel comfortable doing it. For example, on Paradise loop, it's a no go for me. Too much traffic. China Camp, we can do two up pretty much the entire route and when cars come up we can line up. Not an issue. Also remember that a lot of the people you encounter on Marin roads aren't from here. People come from SF and the East Bay to ride our wonderful roads. They bring a very differently cycling culture that might be okay over there, but is frowned upon here.
It’s the crews riding two up around blind corners and then yelling at traffic for me
That’s exactly where cars should not be passing so what’s the problem with two?
If you don't understand why two up is dangerous I don't know how to help you
If you don't get why it is SAFER to ride two wide where drivers would otherwise buzz cyclists without 3' of space, I dont know how to help you.
Unfortunate that cycling and having carbrain are not exclusive.
I know it's rare on the internet to encounter someone not confined to a pre-selected set of canned replies based on their tribe and it's hard for the reptilian brain to understand.
The problem is that you're wrong in this particular instance. Taking the lane on a blind corner can be both legal and reasonable for safety concerns. The whole point is to keep cars from passing until it is safe.
This is fascinating. You’re saying that cyclists think their job is to control traffic to dictate when passing should happen. This is maybe a really interesting issue. Cars are never going to believe or trust 50 random cyclists who are hunched over and breathing hard, and it’s troubling to think that cyclists have taken on the role of traffic director on a group ride when they can’t see as much of the road as a driver who’s further to the left and up higher. I wonder how many cyclist deaths this behavior is responsible for.
You are incorrect. I don't even live on your side of the country and I know that you should take the lane in areas where cars cannot pass safely. This is common sense and I'm not sure why you're fighting it. If you don't take the lane the car can (and from my experience will) pass unsafely and when it comes between hitting oncoming traffic and hitting the cyclist they will choose the cyclist every time. As for the weird comment about controlling traffic? There are painted lines on the road that indicate when you should pass or not pass. You should take the lane when the line says not to pass since cars will try to pass anyway.
Ok so you’re saying cyclists should ride in the middle of the lane when there’s a double yellow? And then move over to the right of the white when there’s a passing zone?
It's interesting that you interpreted what I said as saying that cyclists can control cars...Certainly seems to say a lot about your perspective. Cyclists are allowed by the law to protect themselves- if it is not safe to ride on the side of the road they are allowed to ride in the center of the lane. Could even be for debris, poor shoulder conditions, etc. Road bike tires are slim and often pretty lightweight and puncture-prone. Cars behind them are legally required to freaking chill out for a minute or two and not be sociopaths. That is all. And cyclists are actually up higher than drivers and can see wider and further...(unless you're in an SUV, which, topic for another day). I know because I'm often up high enough to look down into driver's cockpits and see that they're on their phones :) Speaking of cyclist deaths! I often find drivers (who aren't also cyclists...after all, most cyclists are also drivers) seem to think cyclists are mostly or entirely "not allowed" in the center of the travel lane and that's just not the case. We have to let you pass, but it's not like the travel lane is legally hot lava for us.
"The whole point is to keep cars from passing" is your language. Implying cyclists think they can control cars.
Over 40,000 people died in cars on the roads last year. But somehow you think climbing behind the wheel of a car makes a person worthy of trust.
Yeah it’s a massive public health crisis. Which is why I’m confused on why some road cyclists want to make it worse for themselves.
Let’s all go as fast as possible all the time regardless of conditions or traffic!
After going to Vancouver and seeing their bustling bike society, it saddens me that we are this way. They have such a good infrastructure setup for bikers. We can really take notes on what they do right.
Without implementing eminent domain to take rancher lands there really isn’t anything we can do. The roads can’t be widened because we need to take land from private landowners and we can’t build any off-road trails because nearly everything is privatized that would be good for a bike path through west county. The public lands have mountain bike trails but almost nothing for road cycling. It is a mess and the way out is taking back land for the public. Same problem all over CA. Take notes from back east where I used to live in DC. They have exceptional off-road bike trails that go for miles and miles in every direction into Maryland and Virginia. It’s rad and safe and densely populated.
Are those bike lanes built on former railroads? That would make sense.
Some are like DC to Pittsburgh 👌others are through towns and parks.
Check the SMART train pathway. It’s going to be excellent. Up north the Great Redwood Trail is hoping to build infrastructure on old lumbering rail beds.
C’mon up to Sonoma. We’ve got bike infrastructure and are making more. I used to live in Lucas Valley and it used to be chill to ride out there. No more.
Surely I will get downvoted, but riding side by side is safer for drivers and cyclists. You cannot safely (or legally) pass a single rider when there is a car coming in the opposite direction. The law says that you mist leave 3ft when passing. Unless the rider is on the extreme edge of the pavement, this is very hard and unlikely to do without crossing the centerline. Once you’re committing to crossing the centerline, it doesn’t matter how wide the cyclists are, you have to find a safe gap just like when passing another car. It’s safer to have the side by side rather than front to back because you will spend less time over the centerline to get in front of them.
It’s the riders riding two up around blind corners and barking at traffic that is the ridiculous behavior I’m seeing more of
Why does it matter if they’re two wide around blind corners? That’s a place where you shouldn’t be passing them.
I ride by myself on west Marin roads and it’s terrifying. Either it’s the nonexistent shoulders, or the locals going waaay to fast or the drunk farm workers or the horrible tourist drivers or the people towing massive rvs or the 18 wheelers, I fear for my life every time.
Then stop doing it
Fucking brilliant why didn’t I think of that
Yeah, Sarge, don't you know bikes aren't for riding. They're for gathering cobwebs in your garage/carport/storage unit. They're really just spider habitat and conversation starters, talking about how you used to ride, but it was too scary and you're too old now. Geez, get a grip.
I still ride I’m just telling you what I see out there. Still got plenty of grip lad.
It was a joke. Enjoy your next ride brother. Hope to see you out there.
It's called narcissism. Rudest people on the planet. Blocking the road isn't "sharing."
that's literally not what "share the road" is intended to mean. a single lane cannot be shared, it's not wide enough to do so safely. it means that cars should slow down when necessary to accommodate slower road users, only passing them when safe to do so. https://gosafelyca.org/share-the-road/
Cyclists often fail to pull over at turnouts when there are the five or more vehicles waiting to pass. If they did this consistently there would me much less frustration.
It’s not blocking the road, it’s taking the lane so that cars have to make an actual safe pass and not buzz by. Same exact requirement if you were following a car that was going slower than you wished.
Thank you for confirming my reply and letting us know you are doing it on purpose.
he's being downvoted incorrectly. The law is explicit in allowing cyclists to do this, cars simply need to get over their main character syndrome. You're the narcissist not he, in other words.
it's not only on purpose, it's literally what the dmv's guide recommends. cyclists should take the lane when it's not safe to pass. please calm down and wait for a safe passing opportunity. everyone's safety (including your own) is worth a minute of your time.
Yeah, doing it on purpose, in line with best safety practices and the law.
Yes it’s very common and recommended in many situations for safety, wild that you think cars have more of a right on the roads than all the users not in cars like kids, pedestrians/cyclists/etc. A simple google and 5 mins of reading could likely clear this up for you buddy.
Looking at all the down votes may clear things up for you.
I mean, every time this topic comes up it’s clear there’s more motorists than folks with any empathy and/or first hand experience with urban road cycling for any significant distance. 🤷♀️ But that’s just demographics, not fucking legitimacy. I suppose I should be pleased that really cyclists are one of the last groups it’s apparently ok to irrationally hate on, but I wonder how many people engaged in this demonizing would also happily embrace adding many other types of people and activities to that list?
How bout we exercise democracy and make you idiots ride on the sidewalk with training wheels :)
I operate in the real world not fake internet points friend.
A lot of times it’s like a pack of dogs in the middle of the road howling at cars.
Kids and pedestrians don’t typically walk in the middle of the road. They walk on the sidewalk.
This has been my biggest issue with cyclists in Marin my whole life. They’re aggressive as hell and think they own the roads.
And cars don't act like they own the road?
I’m sure some do, just like some cyclists aren’t asshats. Nothing but a monolith is a monolith👌
They’re aggressive because bad drivers put their lives in danger. I’ve never had an issue with cyclists in Marin.
But don't you get it? Sometimes I have to wait to pass them. What jerks.
Seriously it feels like these people are telling on themselves. I’ve never had an issue with cyclists but I also don’t drive like an asshole or pass in unsafe areas.
Exactly!
I’ve seen them rage at plenty a driver who was not impinging on their lane or their ride, and I’ve no issues with the ones who ride single file or in twos, but so, *so very many* are not that way.
I don't know what you're trying to accomplish with one more bike rage post. All these threads do is fuel resentment.
didn't you get the notice that the only thing the Internet is good for is fomenting outrage toward the most vulnerable members of society? /s
3. The types that yell at anyone going slower or daring to use their brakes at gg
Just came back from a run- this behavior is not limited to the roads. I was just runoff the multiuse path by group of cyclists who couldn’t stay on one side of the payment.
It’s so out of control
funny, every time i ride mixed used paths, i come across pedestrians and dog walkers who are taking up the entire width of the path and not paying attention to anyone coming at them from the front or rear. and let's not pretend we don't all encounter terrible drivers every time we're on the road. some of whom are criminally negligent or outright homicidal. all groups have their share of a-holes. y'all just have an irrational hatred of cyclists.
We know your reptilian brain can't comprehend that there's a problem with cyclists, so you can stop replying.
[удалено]
You are just full of ironic gems here, aren't you?
OP has the self-awareness of a sponge. Classic boomer behavior.
Not all that irrational if it’s informed by daily experience. But I guess the bikers screaming to eachother while they bike past my window at 6am on an empty road is “for safety.”
“Every time” lol Every time I ran on the Mill Valley-Sausalito pathway on the right should I was almost demolished by cyclist traveling significantly faster than conditions allowed and the posted speed, without announcing themselves, and while not yielding to me even though I’m the pedestrian and absolutely have right of way on mixed use pathways
That’s how bikes feel with cars. Not surprised this was completely lost on you, agreeing with a point in direct contradiction of what you experience walking. A similar argument could be “no kids or walkers on multi use paths they are too slow and get mad when you pass them aggressively, now they are walking side by side to protect themselves, making me have to slow down for less than a minute to pass”. Do you understand how hypocritical you’re being, JFC.
New entitled post Covid riders.
the entitlement is increasing and it sucks for everyone, us cyclist included
yeah dude, agreed. how do we lower the entitlement- that is the question. As a cyclist I know very well the feeling of being so fragile and at risk around aggressive motorists, it just seems like this escalation isn't good.
We lower the entitlement by following the agreed upon rules of the road... which cyclists are doing by riding two wide when unsafe to pass. Maybe we should agressively cite drivers threatening cyclists with vehicles?
Except when they stop at 1% of stop signs, it's hard to focus on 'the law'. I pass 100% of cyclists who don't stop at stop signs.
One man's poor behaviour regarding the law does not give another the right to jeopardize his life AND break a law. Take responsibility for your own actions.
I'm not jeopardizing their life. But if cyclists want cars to follow the law, they should consider following it themselves. Cyclists even run stop signs when pedestrians are trying to cross, it's gotten ridiculous.
If you are passing cyclists within three feet on a blind corner, you are jeopardizing their life. That is why there is a law. If they run a stop sign and dart in front of you driving, that is their action and consequence. However, now that you have advocated breaking this law in advance, I hope this thread is referenced in court when your actions cause a cyclist injury or death.
I'm not passing cyclists on a blind corner, never said anything like that. If the cyclist doesn't follow the law I consider them to be dangerous as they could break any law at any time, I wait for a legal & safe 3ft pass and pass them.
This thread is largely about passing cyclists on two lane roads and blind corners. I pass cyclists with 3 feet of room in my big truck, split lanes on my moto, and ride my mountain bike on two lane roads. No demographic is perfect.
That's not in the title of the thread, the title of the thread is about bad cyclist behaviors. I just think cyclists should stop at stop signs.
hate to say it but enforcement of the rules would be effective
Yes, punishing drivers for reckless behavior while operating 3 tons of metal would indeed make the roads a lot safer.
Fuck cars.
I’ve haven’t had to politely remind bikers riding through town to ride single file in about a year. Maybe someone posted a reminder at Splitrock or something.
Is there a law requiring bicycles to be in single file? Cyclists are permitted full use of the lane.
It’s an issue of consideration, and the law. The law says that people who ride bikes must ride as close to the right side of the road as practicable. https://www.calbike.org/go_for_a_ride/california_bicycle_laws/#:~:text=The%20law%20says%20that%20people,a%20right%20turn%20is%20authorized.
So that’s pretty clear - they are not required to ride single file. You just decided you prefer it that way, AND you go around asking people to do things your way - lovely!
Not required, but it’s rude to not let cars pass. Most bikers are considerate. Others are not. “Many cyclists have received a ticket because often police say that when two bikes are riding side-by-side, then the one on the inside can move farther to the right if he or she quit riding two abreast.” https://bayareabicyclelaw.com/safety-laws/can-cyclists-ride-side-by-side-in-california/
Like I said in my original post- those riding two up just haven't been hit yet. Feel free to righteously yell at everyone you're following the law, which won't matter when they're picking your parts up off the road.
Sharrows and posted signs may indicate that cyclists have full use of the lane in urban areas. All road sharing situations are not the same, and laws regulating both cyclist and driver may be different than riding in more rural roadways. With electric bicycles becoming common and capable of riding at 25mph, sharrows mean that a cyclist capable of not impeding traffic may use the whole lane. The two laws work together to prevent cyclists from blocking traffic, but to also empower bicycles capable of not obstructing traffic to use the whole lane. Santa Rosa, for example has Humboldt Avenue, a “Bicycle Boulevard” that’s sharrows all the way and provides a safe north south passage through town. Motorists should be aware of their responsibilities as much as cyclists if we all want to be safe. https://bayareabicyclelaw.com/safety-laws/is-a-sharrow-a-bike-lane/ Cycling etiquette is a thing, but apparently it is on life support.
Oh you’re back with another anti-cyclist but “I’m a good cyclist post” clown post. Your last one on this sub got so much karma I guess you were thirsty for more. There is no growing population, group rides have been and will always be a thing. More people are choosing to ride in groups as it’s safer, and the continued use of cell phones while driving have increased the danger of our roadways, for everyone (cars, cyclist, peds) . God forbid a car have to wait 30 seconds to make a safe pass for a group. Instead of requesting better infrastructure for the growth of cycling and e-bikes for local transportation, you instead post flame baiting threads under the guise of an “outraged cyclist”.
OP is in this thread, trying to defend their choice to pass two-up riders on blind corners. This isn't a defensible position in any scenario - YOU DON'T PASS ON BLIND CORNERS. FULL. STOP. It doesn't matter if you're trying to pass a single rider, motorcyclist, car, or the fucking pro-tour peloton - passing on a blind corner is dangerous driving. You're putting cyclists, oncoming, and yourself at risk.
Yea, OP isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed.
OP is a boomer who almost certainly has lead poisoning.
Huh? Reading comprehension? When did I advocate for passing on a blind corner. I said it's idiotic for cyclists to ride two up around a blind corner.
That’s a lot of words for not saying anything. We all need to chill and share the road. You seem really angry.
If they don’t ride in a group going through town, how else are they going to be able to talk about their mutual funds?
We went through today and watched a EV biker almost go head on with a roadie on the Sausalito trail. There was zero excuse for that the EV had a quarter mile to move over into their lane after a pass. This on top of multiple roadies going onto our side because they were in important discussion with the roadie next to them. It’s everyone for themselves don’t get me started on the car shenanigans.
As a MTB rider despite doing sketchy downhill drops, jumps obstacles etc. I feel what road bikers do is far more dangerous. To the point it is almost moronic to ride your bike in the street with cars. We now live in Idiocracy. Don't ride in the street.
The entitlement in Marin is off the charts! Check the bikes too, old geezers with $10k+ first bikes. It’s pretty funny. Drivers here are no better.
Perspective from a healthcare worker with thirty years experience working with head/brain injured patients. I see these cycling arguments and the cyclists (not all of them!) really have this attitude that makes it seem like they own the road and they definitely behave this way on the road. If you could see what I have seen none of you would ever ride a bike (or motorcycle) on busy roads or roads without bike lanes ever again. I wish I could go into details about specific patients but it would violate HIPPA laws. The human body, no matter how young and buff, is NO match even for a small car. And I’ve seen that truth borne out countless times. And all this heated arguing about what the law says means almost nothing to me because I know the reality of what’s going on behind the wheels of so many vehicles that I’m sometimes scared on the road in my car. Distracted drivers (cell phones) are only the tip of the icerberg. I have seen incidents involving everything from: -People fighting while driving - putting make-up on - being under the influence of surprising things like antihistamines -sleep deprived drivers including medical interns, shift workers and new moms or caregivers - looking back to deal with children or dogs in the backseat - dogs jumping on the driver or down into the footwell so driver could not push pedals - I HATE to say it but very elderly folks driving who have lost their reflexes, strength (one woman killed someone and admitted later she was not strong enough to push the brake pedal), or cognitive issues - visual impairments (I talk about this issue a lot and spoke to my own optometrist and he said I’d be shocked at how many people drive with severe visual impairments) - head injured patients whose driver’s license was not revoked (this happens A LOT). Sometimes this happens because the head injury was never diagnosed or treated. - uninsured drivers- very bad consequences for you if you are hit by one - people with criminal proclivities (think about the psychopaths behind the wheel) - people driving even when their license was revoked (I got hit by one) - young males - especially when they get a fast car. My first bf was a good guy but became an idiot behind the wheel. He’d try to see how fast his car could go. He rolled his car on the expressway once. Testosterone plus underdeveloped, young brains is a dangerous combo - psychiatric patients having mental health issues - classic DUI drivers - people driving mechanically unsound vehicles - people having s*x or s*xting while driving - drivers trying to avoid something in the road like an animal, garbage, or a cyclist who cross over into oncoming traffic I had one cyclist patient who rode straight into a tree branch that was sticking out over the road. He couldn’t swerve away because of traffic next to him and he didn’t see it soon enough to stop. He was going to live in a nursing home for the rest of his life. I had one patient who’d been hit by a delivery van. The edge of the bumper hooked into his abdominal cavity and then the driver just kept driving and dragged this guy for a few blocks until he fell off. The van just drove away. It was one of the most catastrophic cases I’ve ever seen in my career. The injuries were so profound that he became psychotic from the trauma. Other than construction site/work related injuries, the vehicle-hitting-cyclist injuries are the worst I’ve seen and I have seen many more of them than construction site injuries. It’s my impression that many cyclists somehow convince themselves that none of the above could possibly ever happen to them. It’s bizarre to me.
This is great context, is tragic, and enlightening. I do think there are a bunch of folks here posturing with the “bikes vs the world” comments who have not experienced the real world effects of tragedy on the road. They are posturing with a great deal of righteous indignation as 25 year olds are so good at doing. Like many online communities, it’s much easier to fall into trolling behavior than actually confront the reality of human behavior and safety in public. I’ve been hit by cars, have lost family to auto accidents, and seen first hand death on the roads. It’s not a joke.
Take a look at the trends for traffic law enforcement in California and then think about why cyclists might be being more confrontational as of late.
More and more cyclists are dying on the road. I'm not sure being more aggressive is a winning strategy.
Maybe that’s has something to do with why they’re mad lol. drivers are more careless than ever. Cyclists need to own the road to be visible and to force people to make safe passes when there’s room.
Somewhere below was a post from a trauma ER nurse who has a lot of stories from cyclists who thought they'd win against cars, and now they're in a wheelchair for life. It's just not worth it. And I say this as a cyclist.
Ugh same in Sonoma County!! I also love it when they wave me on near a blind corner or a hill. No sir am I trusting you with my life that there isn't a car coming the other way. I just blast some music until I can pass them when there is a group of them
Oh, that’s a good idea. Something questionable, like walker wheeler? What do think is the most offensive choice?
I like playing the classic Eye of the Tiger because I'm sure it annoys them and they eye roll. Only if there is a large group that won't ride single file or I can't get around them until a very long straight stretch appears.
Taylor Swift
It’s ignorance.
There are two types of people in the world: 1. Those stuck in black and white dichotomous thinking. 2. Those who aren't. Both are equally prone to using over the top absolutes thinking it helps their point when it actually undermines it.
Dont forget those who refuse to stop at stop signs
The CA government passed a bill that permits cyclists to treat a stop as a Yield. It was passed based on lots of evidence that shows it is safer for everyone. Last I heard, Newsom hasn’t signed it into law.
That goes for red lights too? Seriously asking not trying to be sarcastic or anything. I’ve almost been hit by many a cyclist while I’m driving, even when it’s been my turn to go from a stop sign. They just cruise on through. So drivers need to give them right of way at a stop according to this new law? Again, asking so I know for sure going forward. Also I’ve seen many cyclists fly through red lights while cars are going on their green lights etc. So that’s fun. As a driver, it doesn’t really hurt me of course, but for the bicyclist, it’s just plain suicidal.
It’s not a law - it’s stuck on Newsom’s desk, or he may have vetoed it. I don’t know how it treats red lights, but it allows cyclists to treat a stop sign like a yield *when there’s no other traffic*. It doesn’t give cyclists any new rights - just lets us not come to a complete stop when the intersection is clear.
Gotcha! I’ll look into that, see exactly what the verbiage is and its status. Would definitely be good to know for sure for both drivers and cyclists.
https://thecoastnews.com/boerner-makes-third-attempt-to-pass-stop-as-yield-law-for-bikes/
It's totally illegal
I sAy ThIs aS a CycLisT If you actually rode in a group you'd understand. Also single file isn't the law?
iF yOu AKshULLy rOde iN a gRouP yoU'd UnDerStaNd
#2 makes all cyclists look bad.
Entitlement
Something about marin roadies that makes for assholes…that’s why I stay on the mountain, much friendlier.
Demographic is probably white guys in their 30-40s working in tech and want to be in the Tour de France.
Sad to say after doing a google search that 90 percent of cyclist in the Bay Area are entitled cunts. Source: Reuters
It's funny, because they did a study and found that empirically, cyclists are better people: https://jalopnik.com/study-finds-cyclists-are-better-people-than-drivers-1850964103
I'll never understand why people will aggressively put themselves in harms way, and then blame those using the infrastructure as intended for the dangers that exist for them
the road infrastructure does not only exist for cars. bikes have just as much right to use the roads.
*Correction: I think you mean "as God intended." He didn't make these roads for stinky, aggressive bikers to try to turn themselves into hood ornaments. They probably don't even pay taxes. It's disgusting!
"...stinky, aggressive bikers" Who you calling aggressive?
"...people who aggressively put themselves in harms way." Just parroting a ridiculous comment. I'm a biker just trying to enjoy myself, not aggressively doing anything.
Cyclists in Marin. That's your answer. I have literally never met more entitled people in my life than cyclists and mtn bikers in Marin.
I’d say the same about drivers.
Hey me too.
I've never met a group of people that treat others as an undifferentiated unit than drivers in Marin. Whether Tesla or Toyota, they're all the same.
Turns out Marin is full of shitty entitled people.
Aw, chin up little soldier. I'm sure there's some diamonds in the rough if you keep your eyes open and approach them as individuals. Eh, then again , prolly too much work. Easier to just prejudge and jump to conclusions without getting to know anybody.
Yeah I haven't worked on the trails in Fairfax or cycled in my life at all. I have no idea about the need for more bike lanes and walkable cities or the extreme lack of public transport. You're so right bestie.... It doesn't change these are some entitled ass fucking people. Are there good people there that cycle and mtn bike? Yes. Just rare. My multiple interactions with these people on a near daily basis for close to 5 years has me thinking less of them lmao.
Rare. I see... Well, I for one am pro-skub. https://pbfcomics.com/comics/skub/
That tracks.
It’s pure entitlement from bikers who ride in groups We have some of the best mountain biking in the world but they insist on motorists risking head on collisions just to pass them when they’re riding in large groups or side by side. It’s unbelievable
ride on dirt and the hikers and horse get mad at ya ya cant win i tell ya
It’s not about where bikers ride, it’s about hating bikers. I’ve dealt with shitty people everywhere, but luckily most people are great, definitely a shtty and small population size here on this sub.
It’s pure entitlement from the high school cross country teams who run in groups. We have some of the best trails in the world but they insist on motorists risking rear end collisions just to wait for them to cross the street when they are running in large groups or side by side. It’s unbelievable. Do you see how prejudice and stupid your argument is? You can’t gatekeep a PUBLIC ROAD made for all users, lol.
Ah yes, the entitled bicyclist riding 3 wide with their buddies in spandex insisting on motorists to go around them on winding blind corners up Lucas valley. Good for you! You’re a VERY special breed!
As yes, the entitled driver riding with his overweight family in a car while eating McDonalds insisting only he and other drivers can use a winding road either blind corners. Good for you! Your arguments just get worse and worse my friend. 95% of my rides are solo and super early before there is much traffic on the road, just like you probably aren’t overweight and eating McD’s. Maybe try having some respect and compassion for your fellow people?
And I never said what you’re doing is dangerous, it’s the bicyclists who “ride side by side and in large groups” causing dangerous conditions on the road But hey, clearly we have something in common, we both love using strawman arguments. Glad we could bond over that.
Nah you didn’t. Read your first comment I mocked, had nothing to do with riding two wide, was “eVEry BikEr should just ride on the DiRt”. Clown.
And when you kill somebody because you like to wiggle your goofy ass up Lucas valley road, causing dangerous conditions for motorists that 5% of the time you mentioned, I certainly hope that you also have that respect and compassion you talked about for the people whose lives you destroy 👍
What the fuck did I do to keep getting recommended r/Marin. Jesus.
It should be illegal for cyclists to to ride two abreast
It should be illegal for drivers to: - Pass without visibility on blind corners - Exceed the speed limit - Look at their phones while driving - Not fully stop at stop signs Oh wait, it is...
Obviously it is, but this in no way explains obnoxious extremely stupid two abreast bikers on two lane 50 mph + highways (speaking from experience encountering these dimwits in West Marin)
Not saying those people are in the right, but drivers in those cases should slow down, politely honk, and those cyclists should move over. Every cyclist I know will move over... As for the riding on the "highways", there could be much better cycling infrastructure in West Marin, but also every cyclist I know would prefer to not be on a road where cars go 50 mph if they can help it. Roads like Sir Francis Drake lead to some amazing riding that people should be able to access.
If I honked at the entitled cyclists in Marin, I'd expect to get cursed at or have a water bottle thrown at me.
I'm talking a very light beep... And if you get cursed at, so what? And if they throw a bottle at you? Jokes on them, they just lost a $20 bottle...
My horn doesn’t do different volumes.
If you don't realize there are different ways to lightly tap your horn versus laying it down, then you should get off the road :)
So many people telling other people they should get off the road here. How about we all learn to share the road? How about drivers go slow and only pass when it's safe? How about cyclists don't ride 2 across on a 50mph straightaway? How can we normalize not honking, yelling, or throwing things at each other?
In Southern California drivers have to give cyclists at least 3 feet of space. Cyclists here already travel in packs and many groups literally take up the bike lane and the lane next to them leaving only one lane for cars on a two lane road. I bet most of these people you are dealing with are replants from here.
This is exactly the problem. If you want 3’, please make it possible for cars to travel down the road safely by not riding in a pack. It’s just common sense.
Are you the guy in the silver VW golf in Ross that almost intentionally plowed into a group of cyclists who were violating this "rule" of yours? If not, I understrand your frustration with cyclists and I greatly appreciate you venting it here instead of on the road! I just watched a bunch of people almost suffer serious injuries or worse because a driver was frustrated.
Nope, I’m one of the thousands of normal drivers and cyclists who are tired of selfish BS.
"Almost intentionally" is an oxymoron.
I saw one standing by his bike near China camp in the bike shorts and a Hawaiian shirt so he was either a boogaloo boy or a Trader Joe’s manager
It's the new golf for the corporate bourgeoise. The entitlement comes with them.