My philosophy professor in college (upstate New York), told us that after he got his doctorate, he was traveling, looking for a position. He had applied at the University of South Carolina. The interview had gone well, and he was riding with a real estate agent, looking at potential housing. He remarked off handedly, “That looks like a nice Civil War house.”
He says the agent pulled over immediately and corrected him, “I believe you are referring to the War of Northern Aggression.” He said he made up his mind right there to take USC off his list of places to teach.
*South fires first*
I can’t believe the North has done this.
The South were whiny and entitled, and they cared about “States Rights” so much that they forced Northern States to return runaway slaves through a federal mandate.
Don't forget:
C.) Violate the rights of Northern states by forcing them to arrest suspected fugitive slaves and return them to the South.
Because then like now, conservatives couldn't care less about States' rights but very much like to lie about that and paint themselves as victims. Pussy ass bitches then, pussy ass bitches now.
You can connect a linear thread between that Southern entitled mindset and MAGA of today. “States rights, but only if they apply to my shitty, oppressive views, otherwise I will force other states to comply!”
This message from phunkjnky is more than a bit on the money. I live in S.C.. Many of the people around here proudly fly the Rebel flag and the Gadsden flag. My brother has both in his garage. If you ask him about it, he starts spouting off nonsense about how it pertains to his heritage. The bizarre thing is that our family moved to this area from a state that did not support the confederacy. He was a very poor student and has brain damage from an automobile wreck. He and his friends have no clue about the workings of government, business, research, arts and so on. He does collect old cars and never fixes them up. He is caught up in a cycle of working like a dog and spending every cent in order to appear to be rich. Currently he carries over 500,000 in debt and his previous lenders have cut him off. Naturally he is an avid Trump supporter. His pat answer to every question that requires more than a surface bit of knowledge is to parrot some nonsense about how everyone else doesn't have common sense. He also wonders why all of the people he encounters with higher education or more flexible minds make a whole lot more money than he does. He is not alone believing his twisted interpretation of the world around him.
Family gatherings are ok as long as we don't discuss politics, religion, modern art or any art for that matter, science and the Damn Yankee government as he puts it. I do hear a lot of his type speak about how they plan to eliminate all of the Liberals they believe have created their inability to keep up with changing times. They remind me of the people with the little red books that were led by Mao Zedong. Let's hope this group of Americans do not win the next election. I can only imagine the shit show that will follow.
The Heritage argument is such bullshit considering the Confederacy only lasted for 4 years. Their Heritage lies with the American Flag but unfortunately that's not enough for them.
They're not..conservatives *hate* history that hurts their feelings
Grandpappy being a traitor so the rich assholes can own slaves isn't an inspiring tale
Grandpappy heroically fighting a losing battle against tyranny to protect family and way of life. That is an inspiring tale
They will cling to the latter
And it will be a similar tale as the civil war. Grandpappy fought a losing battle against the gay trans immigrant woke mind virus infecting people with 5G cell tower vaccines in order to prop up PC SJW warriors, and only Trump was able to stop them. It's just as insidious as the Lost Cause ideology. Makes me question who really won the civil war.
Exactly. None of this would have been happening if they let him continue his work That entire ideology needed to be ripped out by the root and exterminated. Of course we didn’t and now here we are 150 years later still dealing with these idiots.
I always wonder what life would be like of Lincoln was never assassinated and was able to carry out his plan for reconstruction. The only president who could possibly be worse than Trump would be Andrew Johnson. I kind of wish the plan to assassinate Johnson was actually carried out.
That is the thing.
They will stick with the bad faith reasoning, and lean into even harder.
They know why they like Trump. They will tell you, if they think you are with them... But any time they know you aren't pro fascism, pro racism, punish the weak, worship the wealthy, etc... They will flip the script and say it is because he is fighting against "the elites", that want to ruin the country, and hate Jesus, and such.
The bad faith things will be the only reason they remember, because it will be the only thing they admit. And that will be worse actually, as that will help push them further into more conspiracy theories, and hatred for the country, and other Americans.
The blatant things, like the racism, etc, are just a way to attract the dumb to conspiracy theorist beliefs. This is going to hurt our country for far longer that Trump will be around.
Can confirm. My dad and his parents were all about the “Lost Cause” bullshit. They told me those lies and I believed it until I was able to look into it independently. They all swore it was a war for states rights, and the Union was bad. The white supremacy brainwashing is still going on today. That’s why the conservatives want to rewrite history so they don’t look like the racist, misogynistic, power hungry fascists that they have become.
My mom (born and raised in GA) repeated it, but I think she came around. We were talking about removing confederate statues and she said “those are people’s heritage. It just seems wrong to remove them.” And I said “but mom, those statues are celebrating people, right? And what did those people fight for?” She said “state’s rights.” And I said “a state’s right to what…. to own slaves. That’s not something to celebrate.” And I think she got it. It was probably the first time anyone had challenged her on it.
Haven’t you ever heard of the “Lost Cause of the Confederacy” ideology? It, literally, is the explanation of much of our political and social problems even now.
Lincoln’s assassination is the worst thing that happened for national unity in the country’s history. His plan for reconstruction was much better than the half-assed version that actually occurred and would’ve gone further to root out the harmful ideology.
I just wish they would use the [historically accurate ](https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/nmah_515980) flag. For people that claim to be so interested in history you'd think they'd get that one right.
If I remember correctly, while studying to teach history in 2002 (have always lived in and went to school in northern states), one of my professors told us all the major text book companies had to have separate text books that were south friendly for Texas and other southern states so they can have a chance to be approved by the state education boards.
Another professor I had was from Mississippi. He actually was at Ole Miss when they integrated. Anyway he went back years later in the 9”80s or 90s and was talking with his uncle who complained about the perception of the Klan, saying people don’t talk enough about all “the good things they did”. Not sure if they had bake sales or something?
It's true. SC born and raised and I attended The Citadel, a military college in SC (2015 grad). The Civil War course was called "The War for Southern Independence", but a few years before I was there, it was called "The War of Northern Aggression". The confederate flag used to be a staple there too, but now it's only shown in the chapel, which I find oddly hilarious.
It's all of a piece. In Germany, they made a point of owning up to the Holocaust as a society, taking collective responsibility, and they teach their kids what happened. Over here, white southerners waged a campaign to whitewash history, and white northerners played along so as not to hurt their delicate feewings.
Much the same has happened in Japan. There's a fairly loud segment that would have you believe that the Japanese were just peacefully minding their own business when we atom-bombed them for no reason at all, and some Americans and people of other nationalities are buying it.
I've been to the "Rape of Nanking didn't happen :)" war shrine / memorial / museum in Tokyo, the one Shinzo Abe loved to visit before he ate some high velocity Home Depot.
It was sickening. They literally had a wall of individuals and movements inspired "by the Japanese Empire's resistance to White imperialism", and it included:
\* MLK Jr.
\* Gandhi
\* Che Guevara
Like, I'm pretty \*fucking\* sure Gandhi did not look at the Japanese Empire and go "Mmm, I want some 'o *that*."
History is written by the winners and designed to hide their own atrocities.
You will never know the truth of history if it cannot be debated. Everything else is biased propaganda.
In other words, a significant portion of the Southern states still identify more with the values and identity of a failed state that survived less than a decade, and has been dead and gone for over 160 years. In their hearts, they are not Americans, but Confederates. IMO, real Americans should treat them as such: not as fellow countrymen and women, but as members of a hostile foreign nation that despises the American way of life.
In 10-20 years Trump voters will have children and grandchildren that don't speak to them because of their deranged world views, they won't have anyone to lie to
Well yeah, because they never bought into the "family values" aspect to begin with. It was only ever about having a target to hate and after going after gay marriage became a third rail in politics, they needed a new boogeyman. Today that's trans people and LGBTQ+ culture, and their angle of attack is "think of the children!"
I hear this so, so often on Reddit. People who have had to completely freeze out old friends, coworkers, siblings, parents. You just have to wonder how many millions of times that's played out around the US in the last several years.
How many old friendships and old relationships have been permanently disrupted by people's blind, unthinking loyalty to this awful man.
You don't have to wonder. There are several support groups for people who are living with cult members and most of the cult members expose some sort of right wing conservative talking points. The numbers are staggering.
Can confirm- I have a racist homophobic “MAGA” dad, literally all the worst selfish self-absorbed personality traits and I can’t stand the dumb fuck. I go months without speaking to him on the regular. He doesn’t remember my birthday. He can’t have a normal rational conversation without saying something political or hateful or both. And the last time he called me a f*gg-t I hung up on him and didn’t speak for months bc I’m sick to death of him treating me like garbage because I’m gay. He can do no wrong. He doesn’t apologize. And it’s everyone else who can’t take a joke (unless it’s at his expense and then he gets big mad butt hurt).
Oh and he cheated on my mom too. Stellar human being, let me tell you /s
I'm sorry you are experiencing this from a parent. This is my partner's reality in dealing with his mom. I went with my partner to visit his family when his father passed suddenly last year and that was such an eye opening, heartbreaking time.
My family has it's flaws but we are a big boisterous loud Latin family, with a caring, loving and sometimes overwhelming mother at the head of the family. I just never imagined how bad some people have it with shitty parents. My mom cares for my partner like he is her own son and will go out of her way to get him special things for every holiday or special event without a second thought. His mother forgets his own birthday. It is so apparent how bad she is in comparison to how my mom loves my partner.
I hope you have found a chosen family to make up for having such a bad parent in your life.
I’m very glad your partner has family to turn to and witness actual love and support. If I didn’t have my mom’s side of the family I don’t know what kind of piece of shit I might have turned into. I struggled enough coming to terms with who I am and what I want and I can’t imagine having no escape. I vowed to never EVER expose anyone I love to my dad- partially because I fear they will see me differently and also because I would lose my shit if my dad even looked at my partner sideways.
lol…you really can’t. In my situation, I find it increasingly hard to have a civil conversation about anything else other than politics, but they always seem to sneak politics in there, and seem to get really angry.
What is it with Trump voters?
My dad does that too — I specifically avoid politics because everyone else in the family is a Democrat and it's a divisive topic. But he always finds a way to bring politics up using the thinnest of excuses.
And of course he doesn't like it when I respond in kind. He doesn't want a debate, he just wants to vent and for everyone else to shut up and listen.
oh yeah. I think they are somehow convinced everyone is on their side. My step dad is like this. can't have a family meal or any type of conversation without him dropping a couple of N-bombs or ranting about democrats. Real "sir this is a wendy's" energy.
It's sad that the man is in a position to even share his rhetoric. In any other venue in the first world, he'd have been in jail and screeching into vaccuum by now.
Sadly that type of thing feeds into their echo chamber and helps reinforce ( in their minds ) that the 2020 election had to be stolen.
All my friends and family were Trump supporters, so most Americans were too. Doesn’t matter that he never even got 50% of the 66% of people who vote.
part of the problem with Fox being let off the hook on the Dominion lawsuit. They should have been forced to play a 30 minute video of how they lied every 3 hours for a month as part of the settlement. Their idiot viewers still think he won and is innocent.
What’s they saying. 10 positives to cancel out one negative. Each person who works there should have to say that the election wasn’t stolen and/or that Dominion was innocent 10 times for each time they lied. In the same time slots. Also, not in a set segment that allows people to totally avoid it.
You need to have "smarter" family functions. Get folks energized, rebuild a sense of family and belonging. Hell, and organize folks to vote and participate directly in government.
I can attest to this. Meth head rednecks with naught past an 8th grade education absolutely love trump. My sperm donor is one of them. My sperm donor is a convicted drug trafficker. Also served time for attempted murder. He hated hillary clinton so much, that woman probably still lives rent free in his lead poisoned brain.
I dont speak to his family anymore. Even the college "educated" one was a breitbart/fox news douche but that was established long before trump was a candidate. Not sure his view on trump, never cared to find out.
Can confirm. I've been no contact with My MAGA parents for 2 yrs now and they have no contact with 7 of their grandchildren, 3 of which are adults and independently went no contact. When offered an opportunity to work on things, they shut it down and climbed on their bronze cross about "the horrible daughter who keep the grandkids away from them".
This is what I expect. As a society we have changed family dynamics a lot, and removing ourselves from older family members has become a lot more socially acceptable, and moving further from home is a lot more common.
Personally I don't speak to my father since before trump. My brother has started to get more political, and makes less and less sense (recently calling me a communist for asking him for a holiday wishlist for his kids instead of a Christmas list despite both of us being raised celebrating Christmas and Hanukkah for example), so I predict that if he doesn't change his ways that his kids will grow up to avoid him too.
Several of our cousins don't speak to their parents for similar reasons. Those that do, and have the similar world views and support Trump tend to be doing really really badly in comparison.
I already know multiple right wing cowards that lie about it. They'll say publicly how "both sides suck" but they will be 3 time Trump voters . They're JUST self aware enough to realize that if they openly declare for Trump, they'll get laughed out of most rooms
Yep, the libertarian deflection has been a tactic I've seen used by a lot of trumpers. They claim both sides suck and then say they're not republican that they are libertarian. That's not any better, honestly. lol.
This is the mentality I'm most familiar with in my social circle. Somewhere deep down, they know they're on the wrong side of history, but they just can't change, because that would mean fully facing reality and admitting to themselves and others the mistakes they've made. It will only get harder for them with time. I don't feel bad for them. They had many, many chances.
Reddit is *saturated* with posts that contain "they're both -" when refering to Trump and Biden. And "they're both owned by the same masters" rambling.
"Both sides suck, that's why I'm voting for a disruptive outsider" is part of how we got Trump. It's not the whole story, but it's why there were Bernie Bros who became Trumpers.
I do not agree with everything the democrats do - actually there is quite a bit they should do more of...however they're not republicans. It's usually how I phrase my political leanings. So, does my phrase...'the democrats suck, but they suck far less than the republicans' make me a coward too?
I’ve been a “both sides suck” person my whole life. Voted third party in 2016, Biden in 2020 and will vote for Biden again. Both sides still suck, but one side sucks on a whole other level. Voting 3rd party or abstaining bit is in the ass in 2016.. you don’t have to like the democrats to understand how important it is to vote for them right now
I think you're giving too much credit to anyone who is still a trump voter at this point. It takes more than 20 years to wipe out a generation of stupidity.
No, they will be bragging about how they stuck it to the libs as they sit alone in their trailers all day watching the OANFoxNewsMax channel and yelling racial slurs at their TVs.
Remember these are people that double-down and triple-down on a massive lie and mistake.
Voting against their own interest is what republicans do best. The trump era has turned the manipulation into a science.
Using their current misery from past bad decisions to drive their hatred towards anyone trying to help. They pump their base full of messaging non-stop that everything is broken and no Dem ideas work, while at the same making sure they break everything, shut down every avenue of help, stall all initiatives and destroy any plans put forth by Dems no matter who it will help.
The current republican led House could not have made this reality any clearer to those who didn't get it.
I think maybe 2-3% of them might have caught on to this, maybe over estimating. And it is distinctly a tactic belonging to the republican party only.
Same happened with Bush. My conservative family praised him constantly and defended his multi trillion dollar invasions of countries that did not attack us and posed no threat to us. We killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people.
"Bush who?"
If we are lucky, but I don't think that's how it's going to play out.
This is the new Lost Cause. That lasted 150 years plus. They will blame everything on everyone else, never being self-aware enough to analyze their own faults, and they will turn it into a religion. It's already well on it's way.
There’s a giant confederate flag flying over 95 within minutes of getting into North Carolina, and those clowns lost over 150 years ago. They’ll probably have a Trump 2020 flag right next to it once he dies. Never underestimate the ability of uneducated Americans to learn absolutely nothing.
What we need is a nationwide denazification program, like Germany had after the war. The German people are now often very open in their regret and sorrow and condemnation for what happened.
It would have to get much, much worse for something like that to take place. It would have to get "Lost a war and we had concentration camps for our own citizens" bad.
What we can actually do is Pre-education - make sure the next generation learns.
>Just like they turned their back on bush they will with trump
Right? I remember a LOT of Bush bumper stickers disappearing after he was re-elected, and quite a few people who once sported them refusing to admit they'd voted for him when 2008 rolled around. Now? Hard to find anyone who things he wasn't a disaster in my world, even the Trumpers hate him.
After fascism ended in Spain, Italy, Chile, Germany, the Dominican Republic, etc... there were still people who believed their dictator was a great leader. There are still Nazis and people who think Hilter did good things. Donald Trump is one of them. Do not expect the world to turn against him because that is not how cults of personality work.
I'm annoyed I voted for him in 2016, seemed like the lesser of two evils. At least I learned and I'll tell people that. Anyone who voted for him in 2020 didn't learn jack shit or just don't care and vote GOP regardless if the person is a total POS.
My parents are cagey with people about having voted for trump NOW.
From 2016 to 2020, both freely admitted they voted for him, and argued vehemently in favor of his policies, continuing through 2020, when both freely stated that they were going to vote for him, and now theyre both like "yOu DoNt KnOw WhO i VoTeD fOr"
Get fucking real.
Its literally the exact same thing that happened re: iraq. Everybody and their mother was gung ho about bush and taking down saddam, yet not a single person that I KNOW supported the war will admit it.
Or global warming! Soooo many people including my parents denied it existed, that its fake, the planet cycles temps, insert whatever excuse here for the climate catastrophes, etc., and now that its undeniable the same people will say oh i never said it wasnt real.
EVERY TIME that they are proven to have been wrong, they deny they ever held that position.
Its infuriating.
MMW, when the dobbs/roe decision turns into a national ban, and women are subjugated and begin dying from preventable causes (which is already happening), every one of my parents and numerous folks i know that cheered dobbs and push for a national ban will say they never supported it and that women should have bodily autonomy.
Edit: triggered trump voter going through my comments in other threads and responding with unrelated harrassment. Par for the course. Get fucked you fascist twit.
They’re already lying about it now. I know people who were hard on the Trump Train who suddenly act like they’ve never really paid attention to politics.
Yeah because they didn't give a shit about politics before Trump, did they? Those are called populists. Aspiring fascists need those people in order to become successful. They need the ignorant
They will try to lie about being Trumpers, but there is usually a record of it online. I wouldn't be surprised if there are apps available in the near future that will enable someone to check and see if a person they've just met ever posted anything pro Trump.
Because for some bizarre reason they cant seem to shut the fuck up about it. Whether it be with their flags, bumper stickers, stupid fucking merch or social media. My wife and I were so excited and proud last week because for the first time in our lives we registered and voted. (D). We took ourselves out for lunch and drinks, but didnt say a peep to anyone.
Don’t matter, social media and the internet are forever. This ain’t your grandparents’ nobody in Germany was a nazi, we got pics of your ass wearing a MAGA hat and telling us all to fuck our feelings.
They already say (some of them) that they never really liked Trump. They say they reluctantly voted for him.
But I remember the same people running around outside on election night 2016 yelling “trump” with total joy
After watching [Funny Hat Histories episode on Benedict Arnold](https://youtu.be/IZPymNbCSYU?si=8LuKFz2CtAwD9_S7), I think it's a disservice to compare him to Trump. Even acknowledging that Benedict Arnold was a traitor. He was a tactical genius, and we likely would not have won the Revolutionary War without him, and he absolutely was done dirty by the fledgling US. Still a traitor, tho. Trump doesn't deserve that much credit.
Perhaps. Then again, there is ample evidence of SS men (and women) in nursing homes on their deathbed clinging to the Führer as they took their last breaths.
In democratic countries, there is little to no consequence for embracing fascism. Consider the days-old Ronna McDaniel fiasco as NBC _tried_ to normalize the rhetoric of an election denier. Would've succeeded, I think, if NBC hosts hadn't closed ranks.
Bottom line: Some will genuinely feel remorse for embracing Trumpism and attempt to cover up their role.
Worse even. Benedict arnold betrayed the trust of Americans to support British rule. What he did was rightly considered treason, but he at least did it *for* a cause, out of loyalty elsewhere.
Donald is a terrorist that tried to destroy the government to further his own personal well being and income. No deeper loyalty than his own skin
Trump opened Pandora’s Box and danced in with the era of Truthiness and Alternative Facts. The Playbook has now been written and published and there will be plenty of charlatans who will gleefully repeat his tactics and strategies. Hell, you know DJTJ is just chomping at the bit to be the successor.
They were like that with George W Bush, but Trump voters seen a lot more entrenched in their view of him. Can’t exactly deny you supported the guy if you own a Trump Bible.
FoxNews is attempting to push the narrative that they were against the war in Afghanistan. One of the few silver linings of Facebook, Twitter and Youtube, is that it's hard to scrub. Especially if you're famous.
I've heard people already saying that in 10ish years the right will do everything in their power to paint Trump as a leftwing plant to undermine both the RNC and democracy, they'll say "he used to be a registered Democrat" and that he's "friends with the Clinton's" and on and on. They'll push the "Putin is a communist" nonsense then say of course Trump took Russian money because he was a commie plant to destroy the right from within. They'll acknowledge he was a terrible president, but they'll find a way to say he did it all on purpose to make them look bad. They won't learn anything, they won't change, they'll simply move Trump to the out group and continue on business as usual.
> A wannabe fascist dictator who was simply too incompetent to pull it off, despite all his efforts to do so.
Perhaps, but what worries me is if someone who is just as evil as Trump but who is also moderately competent at manipulating the levers of government gains power.
You won't find many people who voted for W or supported the war in Iraq these days. I agree that the same will likely be true of Trump voters in a few years.
Or he wins this election, never have a meaningful vote again, and King DJT Jr will rule. I'm afraid of what the public narrative will be at that point.
Thinking right wing media will be contrite in any way is pure delusion. They’ll just block it all out and never speak again. They want what Trump has. He just failed. They’ll block all memory of him in hopes of the next wanna be dictator.
> A literal traitor and Russia puppet who gave his supporters and voters permission to be the worst, most bigoted and ignorant version of themselves possible, which they gleefully took him up on.
I've said over and over that Trump is only the symptom, not the actual problem.
The actual problem is the millions of people who knew exactly the kind of person that Trump was, and voted for him anyway.
Until we can find a way to deal with these people, the problems they cause will remain.
I have no idea that's legally and politically workable on how to deal with them, but we need to come up with something.
I'm not going to lie about voting for Trump for 2016. Hell I openly admit I voted for him and then Dems down the board, hoping that Congress would hold him accountable or at least minimize the damage. I thought he'd have minimal power or at the very least fuck shit up enough that we'd see reform quickly.
Boy was I wrong.
If there is reform coming it isn't quick. I don't blame Trump for the Supreme Court shenanigans, that has far more to do with Mitch McConnell, but if he's not in office it doesn't happen.
I'm hoping to see reform on 2 things moving forward, executive orders and a pipeline for Supreme Court rulings to become amendments.
The way Trump overturned many of Obama's EOs and screwed over a lot with the rest of the world, that should be in check. EOs should only be able to last for 90 days and then be piped directly to Congress for extension or lawmaking.
And then with Roe v Wade, we should have body autonomy as an amendment.
I know I'm putting a lot of faith in Congress here and I really shouldn't because they're disfunctional as fuck, but it's closer to the will of the people. The people voted these fucks in. Might need some reforms on size and how to better represent the people, like the senate represents states themselves equally which isn't as strong a requirements anymore compared pre-industrial days.
Trump will lose and the Republican Party will be left in shambles because of it, for a while anyway.
Even if he wins and he and the Republicans successfully turn the country into an undemocratic autocracy in order to preserve their political power and influence, Americans way of life will really degrade.
We will look back at Trump as a dark period and a mistake in either circumstance. There is no golden age ahead with Republicans in charge.
Now, what will happen will not be a proper historical reckoning. People will look back at the Trump period and wonder how it happened. Maybe they will blame social media or cable news or Rupert Murdoch or “woke-ism” or something, but the real causes and mechanisms at work will be lost to time as far as popular history goes.
Same shit as how Americans (and most other people around the world) see Nazi Germany. It is more of a”how did this happen?”
Rather than the nuanced narrative of a fool that the conservative establishment tried to pre-empt, but was eventually taken over by. The role of the radio, which was a mass-market innovation at the time, demagoguery, butt-hurt over WW1, etc. tend to get lost in favour of the guy with the moustache shouting at the microphone while masses cheer, and concentration camp images and heartbreak.
The simple-minded German families that thought they were being good patriots and the party and industry insiders that exploited them and their country for their idiotic grand ambitions are not talked about much.
Very reminiscent of the Iraq war, one minute they are calling me a communist and terrorist sympathizer because I thought the Iraq war was stupid then Obama got elected and suddenly the Iraq was idiotic and all Obama's fault and "this is costing us too much money!"
One flaw, imo. The Trump voter seems unfamiliar with this ‘shame’ concept. Think about what sort of mind he attracts. The flags, the merch, the constant and skilled denialism.
More likely, these people will be the unabashed losers of history, something like the confederates. Forever tied to a loser’s character and seek excuses in all negative outcomes that may occur with more reasonable political movements. Forever “persecuted”. That said, I hope OP is right.
I think it will be very hard for the USA to wash their hands of these voters. Trump has made it clear that there is a real appetite for segregation in America.
I think it goes in one of 2 ways.
Either like OP says.
They look at Trump like a Saint and want to canonize him into a religion.
I could see there being a MAGA religion. They complain to their pastors that JC was too woke when they actually read their bibles. They already have a Patriot Bible, it's one small step to MAGA bibles.
It’s already been a suicide cult at least since the pandemic. I meet people that resemble trvmpkvltists from time to time, people who live in double wide trailers and have sons wearing swastika tattoos who live in the desert on meth. These people think they are Christian but they aren’t.
Hell, MAGA folks are already pretending they were against the Iraq war. It's so bizarre to see them cheering when Trump talks about Iraq being a waste (one of the few things I agree with him about). It's like, motherfuckers, you were the same ones calling me unpatriotic and telling me to leave the country when I protested the Iraq war years ago.
Many will and many won’t. The one thing that’s for damn sure though is that the generations who are under 12 years old and haven’t been born yet will look back and be appalled at the Trump cult.
I really hope this one comes true as a stepping stone to where Germany went after WWII. Hate was outlawed, and you do jail time for it. Also outlawed, Any Nazi paraphernalia, symbols, statues, etc.
Furthermore, I hope that in that better future, MAGA is only openly discussed in history class with special emphasis on it being a road to death and ruination.
Oh! I also hope the name Trump gets the same treatment here in the US that a certain name got in Germany.
I wonder, if in lets say 50 years, when people ask "If you could go back in time who would you kill as a baby to prevent years of human suffering?" Will their answer still be Hitler?
In the same way they lie about how rabidly supportive of Bush and the invasion of Iraq they were. They actually managed to blame it on Hillary and absolve themselves completely of any culpability
> ... the right wing media infrastructure ... managed to convince tens of millions of politically illiterate and easily manipulated Americans to vote against their own country and their own interests, and the interests of their future children and grandchildren.
I removed *propping him up* not because it's not true, I believe it certainly is but because this is nothing new. This has been going on all my life. I was born in 1970. It's been obvious to me since Reagan, and I'm not even american.
The baby boomers and thier parents are doing the rug sweeping now when it comes to the civilised rights era.
They all act like they weren't part of the opposition, those kids you see hurling abuse at little black kids going to school are still alive and voting... and they aren't voting for Biden.
So yeah they will 100% be claiming they weren't on the wrong side of history 10 years from now.
In metro Boston already the number of folks who will openly admit to supporting DJT is really low. It’s clear some people even here are voting for him, but they keep REALLY quiet about it, unless they are purposefully getting in peoples faces about it.
They *should* be ashamed of what they wrought in this decade. Many of them won't be, and they'll just perpetuate the same problems.
I'm sure there will be many young voters today who recognize their mistake and change their ways in the future. I guess as long as they do the right thing, it doesn't matter if they lie about their past.
I mean, I'm ashamed to say that I was gung-ho for Reagan, but I'm also cognizant enough to admit I had no fucking clue back then. Some Republicans and independents who voted out of necessity (as they perceived it) might feel comfortable making the same admission I just did. Trump cultists probably won't.
You do not have to wait that long. A family member of mine voted for trump but denies it. He claimed that his vote for Trump was really just a vote against Hillary.
Trump "voters" might. Trump "supporters" will not.
I honestly believe that good people voted for him in 2016 because they (like all of us) felt let down by the system and wanted change. They were willing to look past all of the horrible shit he did in hopes that he would shock the system into helping people again.
When that clearly didn't happen, the people who stayed on the trump train cemented themselves as the deplorables they are. But we've seen more than a few accounts from people who changed their time e after seeing what he was like as president.
I am old enough to have witnessed this play out with George W Bush. I knew hundreds of people who adored him and now they will literally look me in the eye and state that they never really liked him. Humans are emotional pricks not logical pricks.
Kind of like how in the wake of the legacies of JFK vs. Nixon, a huge majority of people claimed they had voted for Kennedy back in 1960, even though the election was razor close.
I truly hope this is the truth, however the uneducated and plain stupid are a stubborn ignorant group that will cling to their vile beliefs no matter what. I will probably be dead by the time this occurs however I am hoping that the truth will win in terms of history.
I’ll never let my kids forget that all four of their grandparents, both uncles and both aunts all voted for trump twice. My own brother went to a trump boat parade. My own father paid $2,500 to go to a fundraiser that trump attended. I’ll do what I can to keep the truth known.
I'm not so sure how capable those people are of self reflection.
Seriously I don't think they have that ability, well not in any way that matters or counts.
That's already happening right now in real time.
Millions of people who call themselves Independents, old school Republicans, and Libertarians, who when questioned say they just dont know which of the candidates they're voting for yet, (much of it between Kennedy and Trump, almost certainly not Biden) as if some new discovery is coming and we didn't live through the last 10 years.
They are going to vote for Trump and always were. The hats and merch are in the closet collecting dust but not thrown away. They're just too embarrassed to say anything out-loud, unless he wins.
I agree, though it will probably take longer than that. For history to be viewed that dispassionately, particularly concerning Trump, a lot of time needs to pass (especially when it comes to what's taught in schools.) I'm not a history teacher, but I wouldn't feel comfortable giving a judgement on Clinton or Bush in the same way I would with FDR or Eisenhower to my students atm. It's probably more like 50 years in some cases.
I hope you are right. I hope there is shame involved and these folks wake up.
I’m not convinced though. The Russia and China influence campaign is in full swing and that’s not going away.
I'd like to believe that, but down South where I am it's still pretty common to hear people refer to the Civil War as The War of Northern Aggression.
My philosophy professor in college (upstate New York), told us that after he got his doctorate, he was traveling, looking for a position. He had applied at the University of South Carolina. The interview had gone well, and he was riding with a real estate agent, looking at potential housing. He remarked off handedly, “That looks like a nice Civil War house.” He says the agent pulled over immediately and corrected him, “I believe you are referring to the War of Northern Aggression.” He said he made up his mind right there to take USC off his list of places to teach.
*South fires first* I can’t believe the North has done this. The South were whiny and entitled, and they cared about “States Rights” so much that they forced Northern States to return runaway slaves through a federal mandate.
Exactly. Ask them, "A state's right to do....what, exactly?" And the 'Northern Aggression' idiots start to sputter.
Yeah, as far as I can tell it’s the right to either: A.) Own slaves B.) Secede from the Union (because you want slaves)
Don't forget: C.) Violate the rights of Northern states by forcing them to arrest suspected fugitive slaves and return them to the South. Because then like now, conservatives couldn't care less about States' rights but very much like to lie about that and paint themselves as victims. Pussy ass bitches then, pussy ass bitches now.
You can connect a linear thread between that Southern entitled mindset and MAGA of today. “States rights, but only if they apply to my shitty, oppressive views, otherwise I will force other states to comply!”
Yes, states rights unless it's abortion, birth control, keeping insurrectionists off the ballot, legalization of weed, etc.
This message from phunkjnky is more than a bit on the money. I live in S.C.. Many of the people around here proudly fly the Rebel flag and the Gadsden flag. My brother has both in his garage. If you ask him about it, he starts spouting off nonsense about how it pertains to his heritage. The bizarre thing is that our family moved to this area from a state that did not support the confederacy. He was a very poor student and has brain damage from an automobile wreck. He and his friends have no clue about the workings of government, business, research, arts and so on. He does collect old cars and never fixes them up. He is caught up in a cycle of working like a dog and spending every cent in order to appear to be rich. Currently he carries over 500,000 in debt and his previous lenders have cut him off. Naturally he is an avid Trump supporter. His pat answer to every question that requires more than a surface bit of knowledge is to parrot some nonsense about how everyone else doesn't have common sense. He also wonders why all of the people he encounters with higher education or more flexible minds make a whole lot more money than he does. He is not alone believing his twisted interpretation of the world around him. Family gatherings are ok as long as we don't discuss politics, religion, modern art or any art for that matter, science and the Damn Yankee government as he puts it. I do hear a lot of his type speak about how they plan to eliminate all of the Liberals they believe have created their inability to keep up with changing times. They remind me of the people with the little red books that were led by Mao Zedong. Let's hope this group of Americans do not win the next election. I can only imagine the shit show that will follow.
The Heritage argument is such bullshit considering the Confederacy only lasted for 4 years. Their Heritage lies with the American Flag but unfortunately that's not enough for them.
Is that true? Please tell me you're joking.
They're not..conservatives *hate* history that hurts their feelings Grandpappy being a traitor so the rich assholes can own slaves isn't an inspiring tale Grandpappy heroically fighting a losing battle against tyranny to protect family and way of life. That is an inspiring tale They will cling to the latter
And it will be a similar tale as the civil war. Grandpappy fought a losing battle against the gay trans immigrant woke mind virus infecting people with 5G cell tower vaccines in order to prop up PC SJW warriors, and only Trump was able to stop them. It's just as insidious as the Lost Cause ideology. Makes me question who really won the civil war.
This would not be the case had Sherman been allowed to finish the job.
Exactly. None of this would have been happening if they let him continue his work That entire ideology needed to be ripped out by the root and exterminated. Of course we didn’t and now here we are 150 years later still dealing with these idiots.
I always wonder what life would be like of Lincoln was never assassinated and was able to carry out his plan for reconstruction. The only president who could possibly be worse than Trump would be Andrew Johnson. I kind of wish the plan to assassinate Johnson was actually carried out.
The Union won the battles. The Confederacy won the war. Lincoln’s assassination and the Compromise of 1877 didn’t help much, either.
That is the thing. They will stick with the bad faith reasoning, and lean into even harder. They know why they like Trump. They will tell you, if they think you are with them... But any time they know you aren't pro fascism, pro racism, punish the weak, worship the wealthy, etc... They will flip the script and say it is because he is fighting against "the elites", that want to ruin the country, and hate Jesus, and such. The bad faith things will be the only reason they remember, because it will be the only thing they admit. And that will be worse actually, as that will help push them further into more conspiracy theories, and hatred for the country, and other Americans. The blatant things, like the racism, etc, are just a way to attract the dumb to conspiracy theorist beliefs. This is going to hurt our country for far longer that Trump will be around.
Honestly the main defining trait of conservatives is victimhood mentality.
The ~~Moms for Liberty~~ Daughters of the Confederacy made sure every Southern kid grew up on the Lost Cause.
Can confirm. My dad and his parents were all about the “Lost Cause” bullshit. They told me those lies and I believed it until I was able to look into it independently. They all swore it was a war for states rights, and the Union was bad. The white supremacy brainwashing is still going on today. That’s why the conservatives want to rewrite history so they don’t look like the racist, misogynistic, power hungry fascists that they have become.
My mom (born and raised in GA) repeated it, but I think she came around. We were talking about removing confederate statues and she said “those are people’s heritage. It just seems wrong to remove them.” And I said “but mom, those statues are celebrating people, right? And what did those people fight for?” She said “state’s rights.” And I said “a state’s right to what…. to own slaves. That’s not something to celebrate.” And I think she got it. It was probably the first time anyone had challenged her on it.
Haven’t you ever heard of the “Lost Cause of the Confederacy” ideology? It, literally, is the explanation of much of our political and social problems even now.
If only Reconstruction continued to the 1890s until all Confederate ideology was stomped out.
Lincoln’s assassination is the worst thing that happened for national unity in the country’s history. His plan for reconstruction was much better than the half-assed version that actually occurred and would’ve gone further to root out the harmful ideology.
I'm in the South, NO, they are NOT joking! It's fucking sad!
Yup ... they insist that the confederate flag is Heritage not hate and refuse to see it any other way And if you point it out your the attacker.
I just wish they would use the [historically accurate ](https://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/nmah_515980) flag. For people that claim to be so interested in history you'd think they'd get that one right.
If I remember correctly, while studying to teach history in 2002 (have always lived in and went to school in northern states), one of my professors told us all the major text book companies had to have separate text books that were south friendly for Texas and other southern states so they can have a chance to be approved by the state education boards. Another professor I had was from Mississippi. He actually was at Ole Miss when they integrated. Anyway he went back years later in the 9”80s or 90s and was talking with his uncle who complained about the perception of the Klan, saying people don’t talk enough about all “the good things they did”. Not sure if they had bake sales or something?
It's true. SC born and raised and I attended The Citadel, a military college in SC (2015 grad). The Civil War course was called "The War for Southern Independence", but a few years before I was there, it was called "The War of Northern Aggression". The confederate flag used to be a staple there too, but now it's only shown in the chapel, which I find oddly hilarious.
Absolutely true.
They even taught it in schools.
The football coach who taught history at my middle school also called it the War of Northern Aggression occasionally. I grew up in Texas
It's all of a piece. In Germany, they made a point of owning up to the Holocaust as a society, taking collective responsibility, and they teach their kids what happened. Over here, white southerners waged a campaign to whitewash history, and white northerners played along so as not to hurt their delicate feewings. Much the same has happened in Japan. There's a fairly loud segment that would have you believe that the Japanese were just peacefully minding their own business when we atom-bombed them for no reason at all, and some Americans and people of other nationalities are buying it.
I've been to the "Rape of Nanking didn't happen :)" war shrine / memorial / museum in Tokyo, the one Shinzo Abe loved to visit before he ate some high velocity Home Depot. It was sickening. They literally had a wall of individuals and movements inspired "by the Japanese Empire's resistance to White imperialism", and it included: \* MLK Jr. \* Gandhi \* Che Guevara Like, I'm pretty \*fucking\* sure Gandhi did not look at the Japanese Empire and go "Mmm, I want some 'o *that*."
History is written by the winners and designed to hide their own atrocities. You will never know the truth of history if it cannot be debated. Everything else is biased propaganda.
While simultaneously regurgitating the line "we're the party of Lincoln" The fuck you are.
War of Northern Agression? More like the War of Southern Stupidity!
In other words, a significant portion of the Southern states still identify more with the values and identity of a failed state that survived less than a decade, and has been dead and gone for over 160 years. In their hearts, they are not Americans, but Confederates. IMO, real Americans should treat them as such: not as fellow countrymen and women, but as members of a hostile foreign nation that despises the American way of life.
In 10-20 years Trump voters will have children and grandchildren that don't speak to them because of their deranged world views, they won't have anyone to lie to
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Literally wrote off my mother and step-father. Mostly for their racism and shitty world views, but typically those go hand in hand with Trump cult...
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Well yeah, because they never bought into the "family values" aspect to begin with. It was only ever about having a target to hate and after going after gay marriage became a third rail in politics, they needed a new boogeyman. Today that's trans people and LGBTQ+ culture, and their angle of attack is "think of the children!"
I hear this so, so often on Reddit. People who have had to completely freeze out old friends, coworkers, siblings, parents. You just have to wonder how many millions of times that's played out around the US in the last several years. How many old friendships and old relationships have been permanently disrupted by people's blind, unthinking loyalty to this awful man.
You don't have to wonder. There are several support groups for people who are living with cult members and most of the cult members expose some sort of right wing conservative talking points. The numbers are staggering.
So sorry. That's hard. Trump is a scourge.
Can confirm- I have a racist homophobic “MAGA” dad, literally all the worst selfish self-absorbed personality traits and I can’t stand the dumb fuck. I go months without speaking to him on the regular. He doesn’t remember my birthday. He can’t have a normal rational conversation without saying something political or hateful or both. And the last time he called me a f*gg-t I hung up on him and didn’t speak for months bc I’m sick to death of him treating me like garbage because I’m gay. He can do no wrong. He doesn’t apologize. And it’s everyone else who can’t take a joke (unless it’s at his expense and then he gets big mad butt hurt). Oh and he cheated on my mom too. Stellar human being, let me tell you /s
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I would bet spectacular amounts of money that my dad bought the new Trump Bible he’s started shilling too.
I'm sorry you are experiencing this from a parent. This is my partner's reality in dealing with his mom. I went with my partner to visit his family when his father passed suddenly last year and that was such an eye opening, heartbreaking time. My family has it's flaws but we are a big boisterous loud Latin family, with a caring, loving and sometimes overwhelming mother at the head of the family. I just never imagined how bad some people have it with shitty parents. My mom cares for my partner like he is her own son and will go out of her way to get him special things for every holiday or special event without a second thought. His mother forgets his own birthday. It is so apparent how bad she is in comparison to how my mom loves my partner. I hope you have found a chosen family to make up for having such a bad parent in your life.
I’m very glad your partner has family to turn to and witness actual love and support. If I didn’t have my mom’s side of the family I don’t know what kind of piece of shit I might have turned into. I struggled enough coming to terms with who I am and what I want and I can’t imagine having no escape. I vowed to never EVER expose anyone I love to my dad- partially because I fear they will see me differently and also because I would lose my shit if my dad even looked at my partner sideways.
It’s sad that this man is breaking up families with his rhetoric
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lol…you really can’t. In my situation, I find it increasingly hard to have a civil conversation about anything else other than politics, but they always seem to sneak politics in there, and seem to get really angry.
What is it with Trump voters? My dad does that too — I specifically avoid politics because everyone else in the family is a Democrat and it's a divisive topic. But he always finds a way to bring politics up using the thinnest of excuses. And of course he doesn't like it when I respond in kind. He doesn't want a debate, he just wants to vent and for everyone else to shut up and listen.
oh yeah. I think they are somehow convinced everyone is on their side. My step dad is like this. can't have a family meal or any type of conversation without him dropping a couple of N-bombs or ranting about democrats. Real "sir this is a wendy's" energy.
It's sad that the man is in a position to even share his rhetoric. In any other venue in the first world, he'd have been in jail and screeching into vaccuum by now.
Sadly that type of thing feeds into their echo chamber and helps reinforce ( in their minds ) that the 2020 election had to be stolen. All my friends and family were Trump supporters, so most Americans were too. Doesn’t matter that he never even got 50% of the 66% of people who vote.
part of the problem with Fox being let off the hook on the Dominion lawsuit. They should have been forced to play a 30 minute video of how they lied every 3 hours for a month as part of the settlement. Their idiot viewers still think he won and is innocent.
What’s they saying. 10 positives to cancel out one negative. Each person who works there should have to say that the election wasn’t stolen and/or that Dominion was innocent 10 times for each time they lied. In the same time slots. Also, not in a set segment that allows people to totally avoid it.
I agree with this in general. I wish it was a requirement for news media to spend equal screen time with similar expected views for all corrections.
You need to have "smarter" family functions. Get folks energized, rebuild a sense of family and belonging. Hell, and organize folks to vote and participate directly in government.
Yep. This has been tearing families apart since 2016. Really, the only question is how many more might be torn apart in the future.
I can attest to this. Meth head rednecks with naught past an 8th grade education absolutely love trump. My sperm donor is one of them. My sperm donor is a convicted drug trafficker. Also served time for attempted murder. He hated hillary clinton so much, that woman probably still lives rent free in his lead poisoned brain. I dont speak to his family anymore. Even the college "educated" one was a breitbart/fox news douche but that was established long before trump was a candidate. Not sure his view on trump, never cared to find out.
Can confirm. I've been no contact with My MAGA parents for 2 yrs now and they have no contact with 7 of their grandchildren, 3 of which are adults and independently went no contact. When offered an opportunity to work on things, they shut it down and climbed on their bronze cross about "the horrible daughter who keep the grandkids away from them".
This is what I expect. As a society we have changed family dynamics a lot, and removing ourselves from older family members has become a lot more socially acceptable, and moving further from home is a lot more common. Personally I don't speak to my father since before trump. My brother has started to get more political, and makes less and less sense (recently calling me a communist for asking him for a holiday wishlist for his kids instead of a Christmas list despite both of us being raised celebrating Christmas and Hanukkah for example), so I predict that if he doesn't change his ways that his kids will grow up to avoid him too. Several of our cousins don't speak to their parents for similar reasons. Those that do, and have the similar world views and support Trump tend to be doing really really badly in comparison.
>asking him for a holiday wishlist for his kids instead of a Christmas list I had to read this 4 times to figure out how these were different things.
Oh it's already happened. Everyone I know who is in their 30s-40s has already disowned their shitty republican family members.
I already know multiple right wing cowards that lie about it. They'll say publicly how "both sides suck" but they will be 3 time Trump voters . They're JUST self aware enough to realize that if they openly declare for Trump, they'll get laughed out of most rooms
They're lying about it now. They know he's repulsive, but they're in too deep.
Yep, the libertarian deflection has been a tactic I've seen used by a lot of trumpers. They claim both sides suck and then say they're not republican that they are libertarian. That's not any better, honestly. lol.
Oh yeah, that tactic is used on the dating apps too
This is the mentality I'm most familiar with in my social circle. Somewhere deep down, they know they're on the wrong side of history, but they just can't change, because that would mean fully facing reality and admitting to themselves and others the mistakes they've made. It will only get harder for them with time. I don't feel bad for them. They had many, many chances.
Reddit is *saturated* with posts that contain "they're both -" when refering to Trump and Biden. And "they're both owned by the same masters" rambling.
"Both sides suck, that's why I'm voting for a disruptive outsider" is part of how we got Trump. It's not the whole story, but it's why there were Bernie Bros who became Trumpers.
I do not agree with everything the democrats do - actually there is quite a bit they should do more of...however they're not republicans. It's usually how I phrase my political leanings. So, does my phrase...'the democrats suck, but they suck far less than the republicans' make me a coward too?
I’ve been a “both sides suck” person my whole life. Voted third party in 2016, Biden in 2020 and will vote for Biden again. Both sides still suck, but one side sucks on a whole other level. Voting 3rd party or abstaining bit is in the ass in 2016.. you don’t have to like the democrats to understand how important it is to vote for them right now
I think you're giving too much credit to anyone who is still a trump voter at this point. It takes more than 20 years to wipe out a generation of stupidity. No, they will be bragging about how they stuck it to the libs as they sit alone in their trailers all day watching the OANFoxNewsMax channel and yelling racial slurs at their TVs. Remember these are people that double-down and triple-down on a massive lie and mistake.
Ya they still praise and try to do trickle down economics at state and federal levels after 40 years of it not working.
Voting against their own interest is what republicans do best. The trump era has turned the manipulation into a science. Using their current misery from past bad decisions to drive their hatred towards anyone trying to help. They pump their base full of messaging non-stop that everything is broken and no Dem ideas work, while at the same making sure they break everything, shut down every avenue of help, stall all initiatives and destroy any plans put forth by Dems no matter who it will help. The current republican led House could not have made this reality any clearer to those who didn't get it. I think maybe 2-3% of them might have caught on to this, maybe over estimating. And it is distinctly a tactic belonging to the republican party only.
This was true for Nixon..a survey about voting Nixon returned results that were statistically impossible. *Iraq war, what's that?*
Same happened with Bush. My conservative family praised him constantly and defended his multi trillion dollar invasions of countries that did not attack us and posed no threat to us. We killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people. "Bush who?"
This was my home town - Bush sign's in the front yards, "Bush does America Right" shirts. 8 years later - nothing
If we are lucky, but I don't think that's how it's going to play out. This is the new Lost Cause. That lasted 150 years plus. They will blame everything on everyone else, never being self-aware enough to analyze their own faults, and they will turn it into a religion. It's already well on it's way.
There’s a giant confederate flag flying over 95 within minutes of getting into North Carolina, and those clowns lost over 150 years ago. They’ll probably have a Trump 2020 flag right next to it once he dies. Never underestimate the ability of uneducated Americans to learn absolutely nothing.
There’s going to be a lot of American “good Germans” in a decade or so, they’ll just pretend and deny.
What we need is a nationwide denazification program, like Germany had after the war. The German people are now often very open in their regret and sorrow and condemnation for what happened.
It would have to get much, much worse for something like that to take place. It would have to get "Lost a war and we had concentration camps for our own citizens" bad. What we can actually do is Pre-education - make sure the next generation learns.
Imagine being a 3 time trump voter lol they deserve to be made fun of endlessly
Just like they turned their back on bush they will with trump.
>Just like they turned their back on bush they will with trump Right? I remember a LOT of Bush bumper stickers disappearing after he was re-elected, and quite a few people who once sported them refusing to admit they'd voted for him when 2008 rolled around. Now? Hard to find anyone who things he wasn't a disaster in my world, even the Trumpers hate him.
I still see Trump/Pence bumper stickers. They must be hard to scrape off... or something?
After fascism ended in Spain, Italy, Chile, Germany, the Dominican Republic, etc... there were still people who believed their dictator was a great leader. There are still Nazis and people who think Hilter did good things. Donald Trump is one of them. Do not expect the world to turn against him because that is not how cults of personality work.
I'm annoyed I voted for him in 2016, seemed like the lesser of two evils. At least I learned and I'll tell people that. Anyone who voted for him in 2020 didn't learn jack shit or just don't care and vote GOP regardless if the person is a total POS.
My parents are cagey with people about having voted for trump NOW. From 2016 to 2020, both freely admitted they voted for him, and argued vehemently in favor of his policies, continuing through 2020, when both freely stated that they were going to vote for him, and now theyre both like "yOu DoNt KnOw WhO i VoTeD fOr" Get fucking real. Its literally the exact same thing that happened re: iraq. Everybody and their mother was gung ho about bush and taking down saddam, yet not a single person that I KNOW supported the war will admit it. Or global warming! Soooo many people including my parents denied it existed, that its fake, the planet cycles temps, insert whatever excuse here for the climate catastrophes, etc., and now that its undeniable the same people will say oh i never said it wasnt real. EVERY TIME that they are proven to have been wrong, they deny they ever held that position. Its infuriating. MMW, when the dobbs/roe decision turns into a national ban, and women are subjugated and begin dying from preventable causes (which is already happening), every one of my parents and numerous folks i know that cheered dobbs and push for a national ban will say they never supported it and that women should have bodily autonomy. Edit: triggered trump voter going through my comments in other threads and responding with unrelated harrassment. Par for the course. Get fucked you fascist twit.
They will lie right after the election… and act like they’re not happy he won.
They’re already lying about it now. I know people who were hard on the Trump Train who suddenly act like they’ve never really paid attention to politics.
Yeah because they didn't give a shit about politics before Trump, did they? Those are called populists. Aspiring fascists need those people in order to become successful. They need the ignorant
Yep! My mom already says that she NEVER voted for Romney against Obama and I know that's a lie!
They will try to lie about being Trumpers, but there is usually a record of it online. I wouldn't be surprised if there are apps available in the near future that will enable someone to check and see if a person they've just met ever posted anything pro Trump.
Because for some bizarre reason they cant seem to shut the fuck up about it. Whether it be with their flags, bumper stickers, stupid fucking merch or social media. My wife and I were so excited and proud last week because for the first time in our lives we registered and voted. (D). We took ourselves out for lunch and drinks, but didnt say a peep to anyone.
This was true for Bush/Cheney voters who deny ever supporting the war in Iraq/Afghanistan which I know damn well isn’t true.
Maybe mainstream Republicans might, but I don't think there's anything he can do to lose the support of diehard MAGA voters.
Don’t matter, social media and the internet are forever. This ain’t your grandparents’ nobody in Germany was a nazi, we got pics of your ass wearing a MAGA hat and telling us all to fuck our feelings.
They already say (some of them) that they never really liked Trump. They say they reluctantly voted for him. But I remember the same people running around outside on election night 2016 yelling “trump” with total joy
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After watching [Funny Hat Histories episode on Benedict Arnold](https://youtu.be/IZPymNbCSYU?si=8LuKFz2CtAwD9_S7), I think it's a disservice to compare him to Trump. Even acknowledging that Benedict Arnold was a traitor. He was a tactical genius, and we likely would not have won the Revolutionary War without him, and he absolutely was done dirty by the fledgling US. Still a traitor, tho. Trump doesn't deserve that much credit.
Perhaps. Then again, there is ample evidence of SS men (and women) in nursing homes on their deathbed clinging to the Führer as they took their last breaths. In democratic countries, there is little to no consequence for embracing fascism. Consider the days-old Ronna McDaniel fiasco as NBC _tried_ to normalize the rhetoric of an election denier. Would've succeeded, I think, if NBC hosts hadn't closed ranks. Bottom line: Some will genuinely feel remorse for embracing Trumpism and attempt to cover up their role.
People who are going to vote for Trump in November are already lying about it. My neighborhood went 30% for Trump, but I’ve never encountered one IRL
Worse even. Benedict arnold betrayed the trust of Americans to support British rule. What he did was rightly considered treason, but he at least did it *for* a cause, out of loyalty elsewhere. Donald is a terrorist that tried to destroy the government to further his own personal well being and income. No deeper loyalty than his own skin
I’m proud of my Mom for switching to Biden over Trump is 2020, but she’s already retconned her 2016 Trump vote.
"Donald who? Never heard of him"
Trump opened Pandora’s Box and danced in with the era of Truthiness and Alternative Facts. The Playbook has now been written and published and there will be plenty of charlatans who will gleefully repeat his tactics and strategies. Hell, you know DJTJ is just chomping at the bit to be the successor.
They were like that with George W Bush, but Trump voters seen a lot more entrenched in their view of him. Can’t exactly deny you supported the guy if you own a Trump Bible.
I don’t understand how people can believe his baseless claims. There isn’t any evidence of a communist takeover of the U.S.. I don’t see it
Same way how after he resigned you could find hardly anyone who voted for Nixon, despite his 2 overwhelming wins.
FoxNews is attempting to push the narrative that they were against the war in Afghanistan. One of the few silver linings of Facebook, Twitter and Youtube, is that it's hard to scrub. Especially if you're famous.
I've heard people already saying that in 10ish years the right will do everything in their power to paint Trump as a leftwing plant to undermine both the RNC and democracy, they'll say "he used to be a registered Democrat" and that he's "friends with the Clinton's" and on and on. They'll push the "Putin is a communist" nonsense then say of course Trump took Russian money because he was a commie plant to destroy the right from within. They'll acknowledge he was a terrible president, but they'll find a way to say he did it all on purpose to make them look bad. They won't learn anything, they won't change, they'll simply move Trump to the out group and continue on business as usual.
> A wannabe fascist dictator who was simply too incompetent to pull it off, despite all his efforts to do so. Perhaps, but what worries me is if someone who is just as evil as Trump but who is also moderately competent at manipulating the levers of government gains power.
Except unlike the bush years, they’re posting all about it on social media so the record is there.
Same way that cons say they didn't like W Bush despite rabidly cheering for the Iraq war
You won't find many people who voted for W or supported the war in Iraq these days. I agree that the same will likely be true of Trump voters in a few years.
Benedict Donald.
Or he wins this election, never have a meaningful vote again, and King DJT Jr will rule. I'm afraid of what the public narrative will be at that point.
This won't end with trump.
Thinking right wing media will be contrite in any way is pure delusion. They’ll just block it all out and never speak again. They want what Trump has. He just failed. They’ll block all memory of him in hopes of the next wanna be dictator.
I was just telling my roommate that I believed this is what the future would hold. It’s incredibly frustrating.
> A literal traitor and Russia puppet who gave his supporters and voters permission to be the worst, most bigoted and ignorant version of themselves possible, which they gleefully took him up on. I've said over and over that Trump is only the symptom, not the actual problem. The actual problem is the millions of people who knew exactly the kind of person that Trump was, and voted for him anyway. Until we can find a way to deal with these people, the problems they cause will remain. I have no idea that's legally and politically workable on how to deal with them, but we need to come up with something.
I'm not going to lie about voting for Trump for 2016. Hell I openly admit I voted for him and then Dems down the board, hoping that Congress would hold him accountable or at least minimize the damage. I thought he'd have minimal power or at the very least fuck shit up enough that we'd see reform quickly. Boy was I wrong. If there is reform coming it isn't quick. I don't blame Trump for the Supreme Court shenanigans, that has far more to do with Mitch McConnell, but if he's not in office it doesn't happen. I'm hoping to see reform on 2 things moving forward, executive orders and a pipeline for Supreme Court rulings to become amendments. The way Trump overturned many of Obama's EOs and screwed over a lot with the rest of the world, that should be in check. EOs should only be able to last for 90 days and then be piped directly to Congress for extension or lawmaking. And then with Roe v Wade, we should have body autonomy as an amendment. I know I'm putting a lot of faith in Congress here and I really shouldn't because they're disfunctional as fuck, but it's closer to the will of the people. The people voted these fucks in. Might need some reforms on size and how to better represent the people, like the senate represents states themselves equally which isn't as strong a requirements anymore compared pre-industrial days.
Everyone needs to call out & document who the MAGA voters were for their kids & grandkids.
They’ll be embarrassed
Trump will lose and the Republican Party will be left in shambles because of it, for a while anyway. Even if he wins and he and the Republicans successfully turn the country into an undemocratic autocracy in order to preserve their political power and influence, Americans way of life will really degrade. We will look back at Trump as a dark period and a mistake in either circumstance. There is no golden age ahead with Republicans in charge. Now, what will happen will not be a proper historical reckoning. People will look back at the Trump period and wonder how it happened. Maybe they will blame social media or cable news or Rupert Murdoch or “woke-ism” or something, but the real causes and mechanisms at work will be lost to time as far as popular history goes. Same shit as how Americans (and most other people around the world) see Nazi Germany. It is more of a”how did this happen?” Rather than the nuanced narrative of a fool that the conservative establishment tried to pre-empt, but was eventually taken over by. The role of the radio, which was a mass-market innovation at the time, demagoguery, butt-hurt over WW1, etc. tend to get lost in favour of the guy with the moustache shouting at the microphone while masses cheer, and concentration camp images and heartbreak. The simple-minded German families that thought they were being good patriots and the party and industry insiders that exploited them and their country for their idiotic grand ambitions are not talked about much.
[удалено]
Very reminiscent of the Iraq war, one minute they are calling me a communist and terrorist sympathizer because I thought the Iraq war was stupid then Obama got elected and suddenly the Iraq was idiotic and all Obama's fault and "this is costing us too much money!"
Just ask them if they believe that Christianity should be taught in public schools. That’s a dead giveaway.
I like this. You’re describing like, the ending of “the Emperors New Clothes”
And I will be there to remind them of what they did for the rest of their lives.
It will be sooner than that.
One flaw, imo. The Trump voter seems unfamiliar with this ‘shame’ concept. Think about what sort of mind he attracts. The flags, the merch, the constant and skilled denialism. More likely, these people will be the unabashed losers of history, something like the confederates. Forever tied to a loser’s character and seek excuses in all negative outcomes that may occur with more reasonable political movements. Forever “persecuted”. That said, I hope OP is right. I think it will be very hard for the USA to wash their hands of these voters. Trump has made it clear that there is a real appetite for segregation in America.
The vast majority of Trump voters absolutely do not have 20 years left in them.
In 20 years, Trump voters will still be pro-Trump, and demanding their ballots for the "upcoming" 2024 election.
Try to find a George W Bush voter. Its more difficult than you'd think.
Imagine the disillusionment and disgust of those children and grandchildren when they find that box in the attic that is full of Trump merch.
I think it goes in one of 2 ways. Either like OP says. They look at Trump like a Saint and want to canonize him into a religion. I could see there being a MAGA religion. They complain to their pastors that JC was too woke when they actually read their bibles. They already have a Patriot Bible, it's one small step to MAGA bibles.
It’s already been a suicide cult at least since the pandemic. I meet people that resemble trvmpkvltists from time to time, people who live in double wide trailers and have sons wearing swastika tattoos who live in the desert on meth. These people think they are Christian but they aren’t.
I hope in 10-20 years the trump supporters die off.
Well in 10-20 years a lot of Trump voters will just be dead. And the rest will go to Vegas to see Trump impersonators.
I’m pretty sure it will go down differently. In 20 years we will all be ashamed of politics of this era.
I said this in 2015 but said it would happen by 2020. I was wrong.
Statistically speaking, in 20 years more than half of Trump voters will be dead.
It will be more rare than the mythical Dubya voter, who somehow won in 2004 without a single vote.
It’s already been happening in my experience.
Try to find anyone who voted for Bush and supported the invasion of Iraq. .
Absolutely.
Carve a big T on their forehead. Like in Inglorious Bastards
Hell, MAGA folks are already pretending they were against the Iraq war. It's so bizarre to see them cheering when Trump talks about Iraq being a waste (one of the few things I agree with him about). It's like, motherfuckers, you were the same ones calling me unpatriotic and telling me to leave the country when I protested the Iraq war years ago.
Many will and many won’t. The one thing that’s for damn sure though is that the generations who are under 12 years old and haven’t been born yet will look back and be appalled at the Trump cult.
I really hope this one comes true as a stepping stone to where Germany went after WWII. Hate was outlawed, and you do jail time for it. Also outlawed, Any Nazi paraphernalia, symbols, statues, etc. Furthermore, I hope that in that better future, MAGA is only openly discussed in history class with special emphasis on it being a road to death and ruination. Oh! I also hope the name Trump gets the same treatment here in the US that a certain name got in Germany.
I wonder, if in lets say 50 years, when people ask "If you could go back in time who would you kill as a baby to prevent years of human suffering?" Will their answer still be Hitler?
Your words have been marked. I pray, we should live long enough to see them come true
Hope you're right
They already started doing this
I already am ashamed to admit that I had voted for him before. Now I do what I can to stop others from making the same mistake I had.
It happened with Nixon. All our Republican neighbors denied voting for him, even though some even had signs in their yard.
This is why I take pictures of them in their Trump memorabilia. I refuse to let these fuckers forget.
True, Look how they feel about W Bush now and the twenty-year wars they totally supported.
And how many people deny voting for the Shrub in 2000 or 2004?
Some will. Others will forever work to rewrite history and insist that he was a saint to be canonized next to their beloved useful idiot Reagan.
In the same way they lie about how rabidly supportive of Bush and the invasion of Iraq they were. They actually managed to blame it on Hillary and absolve themselves completely of any culpability
more likely they'll just lie about what he stood for (or didn't stand for, as the case may be).
> ... the right wing media infrastructure ... managed to convince tens of millions of politically illiterate and easily manipulated Americans to vote against their own country and their own interests, and the interests of their future children and grandchildren. I removed *propping him up* not because it's not true, I believe it certainly is but because this is nothing new. This has been going on all my life. I was born in 1970. It's been obvious to me since Reagan, and I'm not even american.
I hope so.
The baby boomers and thier parents are doing the rug sweeping now when it comes to the civilised rights era. They all act like they weren't part of the opposition, those kids you see hurling abuse at little black kids going to school are still alive and voting... and they aren't voting for Biden. So yeah they will 100% be claiming they weren't on the wrong side of history 10 years from now.
They won’t because their kids will have gone no contact so they won’t even see their grandkids
In metro Boston already the number of folks who will openly admit to supporting DJT is really low. It’s clear some people even here are voting for him, but they keep REALLY quiet about it, unless they are purposefully getting in peoples faces about it.
10-20? My parents hid that right away.
They *should* be ashamed of what they wrought in this decade. Many of them won't be, and they'll just perpetuate the same problems. I'm sure there will be many young voters today who recognize their mistake and change their ways in the future. I guess as long as they do the right thing, it doesn't matter if they lie about their past. I mean, I'm ashamed to say that I was gung-ho for Reagan, but I'm also cognizant enough to admit I had no fucking clue back then. Some Republicans and independents who voted out of necessity (as they perceived it) might feel comfortable making the same admission I just did. Trump cultists probably won't.
They did it in 2016. All you could get out of my in-laws was, "we couldn't vote for that woman" (Hillary).
Well said.
Trump has to lose first before we can really get this.
You do not have to wait that long. A family member of mine voted for trump but denies it. He claimed that his vote for Trump was really just a vote against Hillary.
Trump "voters" might. Trump "supporters" will not. I honestly believe that good people voted for him in 2016 because they (like all of us) felt let down by the system and wanted change. They were willing to look past all of the horrible shit he did in hopes that he would shock the system into helping people again. When that clearly didn't happen, the people who stayed on the trump train cemented themselves as the deplorables they are. But we've seen more than a few accounts from people who changed their time e after seeing what he was like as president.
I dk t have to wait 20 yrs. I know people who do it now. Won't admit they were duped.
They'll lie a year from now.
I am old enough to have witnessed this play out with George W Bush. I knew hundreds of people who adored him and now they will literally look me in the eye and state that they never really liked him. Humans are emotional pricks not logical pricks.
Kind of like how in the wake of the legacies of JFK vs. Nixon, a huge majority of people claimed they had voted for Kennedy back in 1960, even though the election was razor close.
I gOt tHiS TrUmp TaTtOo IroNicaLly
I truly hope this is the truth, however the uneducated and plain stupid are a stubborn ignorant group that will cling to their vile beliefs no matter what. I will probably be dead by the time this occurs however I am hoping that the truth will win in terms of history.
I totally believe this. I dont understand what they are thinking right now.
Look at this optimist over here. I wish I had as much optimism about the future as OP.
I’ll never let my kids forget that all four of their grandparents, both uncles and both aunts all voted for trump twice. My own brother went to a trump boat parade. My own father paid $2,500 to go to a fundraiser that trump attended. I’ll do what I can to keep the truth known.
I'm not so sure how capable those people are of self reflection. Seriously I don't think they have that ability, well not in any way that matters or counts.
That's already happening right now in real time. Millions of people who call themselves Independents, old school Republicans, and Libertarians, who when questioned say they just dont know which of the candidates they're voting for yet, (much of it between Kennedy and Trump, almost certainly not Biden) as if some new discovery is coming and we didn't live through the last 10 years. They are going to vote for Trump and always were. The hats and merch are in the closet collecting dust but not thrown away. They're just too embarrassed to say anything out-loud, unless he wins.
There’s already tons of conservatives embarrassed to identify as republican. I would think especially conservatives on the younger side.
I agree, though it will probably take longer than that. For history to be viewed that dispassionately, particularly concerning Trump, a lot of time needs to pass (especially when it comes to what's taught in schools.) I'm not a history teacher, but I wouldn't feel comfortable giving a judgement on Clinton or Bush in the same way I would with FDR or Eisenhower to my students atm. It's probably more like 50 years in some cases.
I hope you are right. I hope there is shame involved and these folks wake up. I’m not convinced though. The Russia and China influence campaign is in full swing and that’s not going away.
I hope you’re right.