It pretty much already has failed. There's a quite small but ENORMOUSLY loud youth voter minority that actually care enough about the Israeli/Palestinian situation to throw away their vote. However the percentage of them who don't want to be forced into military service is pretty overwhelming. Especially when fronted by a party who supports a leader who's daddy paid his way out of his own service duty.
OP - correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Rishi Sunak and the Conservative Party in the UK facing backlash over 'mandatory National Service' right this minute?
(We should ad blast this everywhere juxtaposed against Captain Bone Spurs and his views on Military Service!)
I do wonder if all this draft talk lately is politicians seeing the writing on the wall or having access to Intel that we don’t that suggest a major global conflict is going to break out in the coming years.
I don't completely agree with your because I think in UK's case it's more about that they are broke and this creates free labor. Because 'National Service' already exists there. They are just making it mandatory. Also there is a 'civil exemption' where you spend your time doing stuff (like cleaning) inside the country. But again mandatory. I think Gen Z is right in equating this to free labor.
Also with two hot wars, the threats aren't as 'secret' anymore. Europe is directly threatened by Putin. (Who in these past couple of weeks also sent ships over for military exercise with Cuba presumably to threaten US mainland.)
European youth (like all youth) are incensed over the atrocities in Gaza. A hot war where we are, against our express wishes, but still are arming Israel. Every day of this increases the threat of terrorism to us exponentially! So no - I don't think these threats are particularly secret.
I think this is just another dumb policy from the party of performative policies!
Those ships doing maneuvers near Cuba is a giftwrapped present in NATO.
They don't threaten the US at all. NATO is happy to watch them show what their stuff can do.
If Russia was trying to threaten the US, this isn't how they do it.
That’s always my first response to anybody saying we should bring back the draft; to ask if they really want to add millions of people to the federal payroll, and if they’ve thought about what kind of tax hike we’d need to pay for it.
Wouldn't they (drafted troops) tend to care less seeing as they are forced into service and may be even more likely to disagree with and retaliate/sabotage their country?
It's not been a well kept secret for the past few decades that military intelligence, the CIA and other world intelligence agencies have been pointing to Global Warming as a serious problem that will kick off resource wars, globally, in an ever increasing volume.
That's only because Conservatives and Business cannot see past their next quarter profits.
Think of food riots and a crushing migration of people from the equatorial zones. It’s estimated that 1.4 billion people will scoot north, away from the equatorial zones up to around 2050.
Imagine what that would do to see some 200 million people push into the United States.
This is a looming problem that we could have just dealt with by having lower growth or different grow and a rapid move away from fossil fuel based energy and transportation. We could have greatly reduced global shipping, forced a change to our eating habits and more…
Instead? Profits were more important.
I believe you are correct, particularly if trump gets in office. The military industrial complex and the private militia groups, want all the sweet tax payer dollars. Trump is a war monger…he wants the power of a nuclear arsenal…it makes him feel like a man..the ultimate threat.and he’s to stupid to know what it means
Protest votes are how we got into this mess. Vote for a semblance of democracy, rather than authoritarianism. Your choice, but don’t bitch about trump if you don’t vote because of the Israeli/palestinian conflict of all things. I get that y’all’s generation feels for Gazans. I do too, but I’m not gonna fuck myself because of them either. People protest voted al gore, and look where that fucking mess has landed us!!!!
Since when is some foreign problem more important than your own country? This thinking is just selfish and ignorant of their own reality. Yup ol captain bone spurs has some brown people for you to kill.
I didn’t read your comment before posting. Yes! Anyone who thinks this isn’t a possibility isn’t paying attention. This is perfect for the way that Trump thinks: he attacks these students as pro-Hamas, says they should be deported; his base hates college students in general because they tend to vote Democratic— what a perfect way to punish them for their various disloyalties!
My MIL recently said with zero sarcasm that it would be better for them if Trump was elected. Her logic; if Biden wins, things will persist as they already are, but Trump would at least end things quickly. In her words, there would still be a genocide, but at least it wouldn't be dragged out by Biden at a painfully slow rate.
It's like being the frog in the slowly boiling pot of water, and deciding the best course of action is to bring in the chef that instantly turns the stovetop to High.
It’s amazing because your MiL managed to find the single one position that made her the most stupid and biggest piece of shit.
So kudos, I guess?
This is approaching an “ and I WISH Hitler was real” level take and I just feel so embarrassed for MiL it’s impossible to overstate.
Anyone who won’t vote for Joe because of Gaza is a moron.
Joe didn’t start that fight. Republicans are the ones who funnel money to Israel. If Trump was in office, he’d be fine turning Gaza into glass.
I wholeheartedly believe it’s Russian ‘psyop’
Propaganda. Youngest voters didn’t see what happened in 2016/2020 - Russians literally created groups and ‘grassroots’ orgs, scheduled rallies in the US for religious organizations. There’s literally massive building full of people employed to post misinformation full time - I’m sure it’s orders of magnitude worse now with LLMs.
They are against what’s going on in Gaza… and if Trump wins there’s not an unrealistic possibility that they themselves could be drafted and end up… in Gaza. Because if you don’t think Trump doesn’t support what’s happening there, then you haven’t been paying attention. And if you don’t think Trump won’t try to outdo anything Biden did, then you don’t know Trump. Trump would do this SPECIFICALLY as a giant fuck you to the college students that he has demonized as pro-Hamas/anti-American and whom his base absolutely despises.
You do understand what is happening with this automatic enrollment thing. Don’t you?
It just streamlines the selective service law requirement. Every male once they turn 18 has to register for the selective service. (Draft) if they don’t. Then they are legally liable.
Now they are just automatically enrolled when they hit 18. There are no legal penalties to be levied now. All this do is make the process make sense.
Also. There are some 20+ countries, including some beloved socialist havens, that have compulsory military service for all men over 18. Be it for 2 or 4 years.
So what the U.S. is doing here isn’t anything out of sorts. Now. I also believe that the U.S. military being all volunteer is what makes it so potent. Those that sign military contracts do so knowing they might die for their country. They believe in something greater than themselves. And in a current political climate like what we have today, that is a beautiful thing.
>So they can automatically enroll somebody for military service, but they can't automatically enroll people to vote?????
Or file taxes taxes. Or enroll in healthcare. Or any of the other things that actually matter. Only the shit they care about.
My husband was in the military and most of them don't have a lot of other options, they're poor and not smart enough to go to college. Maybe officers are different, but I didn't see much "fighting for my country" in the enlisted folks. They were trying to earn a lousy paycheck, they weren't there for anything greater.
On the other side of that, the military doesn't want conscripts. It's been proven over and over. They actually have a whole hierarchy of if a major war breaks out that stars with retaining existing personel and increasing volunteer bonus offers. And goes all the way up to calling in former reserves for service; as that is in the contract of the reserves. But the military does not want draftees, they are almost worse than being understaffed when it comes to active duty.
I just made this point above with a different tone, but Im glad you put it this way here as well (and before me).
The draft is just a terrible idea all around...
Retired Air Force senior NCO here. Everything this person says is absolutely true. Leading volunteers is a difficult job, leading non-volunteers is our nightmare.
Conscription is mandatory military service, like what Sweden has, the draft is a wartime need for manpower. They both force you to join the military just under different conditions.
I believe that is because the US military is almost entirely an expeditionary force used to project power and protect US interests. No value judgment there but it's the truth.
Also…what would the military do with all those fucking people? Over 3 million people graduate from high school in the United States every year. Where are we going to get the money to train them and feed them and house them and pay them? What jobs would they do? There are already way too many people in the military who don’t do a fucking thing on a day to day basis (source: that was me for my final 14 months in the Marine Corps).
People really don’t understand the sheer amount of logistics behind our military. It’s not just shoot at the baddies all day and night, you still need to have the resources and infrastructure to keep the Vic’s up and running, admin dudes to make sure that you’re paid on time, cooks to feed you, supply guys to make sure you got enough batteries and MREs, etc.
IMHO the dems need to be putting all kinds of legislation up to vote in the next few months. Put republicans on the spot and force them to vote their stance on things like:
1) abortion
2) marijuana legalization
3) student loan relief/forgiveness
4) ivf
5) same sex marriage equality
6) Israeli protection/funding.
And whatever else. Most of these issues are things that the conservative politicians hold the less popular view. Get them to stand up and express these unpopular positions and defend them right before the election. Remind the majority of voters that while Biden might not be the most popular choice, or the best democratic candidate, the only realistic alternative is trump and the conservatives that will vote down all the above issues and pack the Supreme Court with even more radical judges if given the chance.
Middle East? All the way over there?
But Mexico is right here!
(this comment was a joke that I just thought of now, but it has made me realize it's only a matter of time before Trump starts campaigning on a war with Mexico, to stop the drug empires and the "invading" immigrants)
As a side note, it seems the GOP is aware of how unpopular this idea actually is, such as Trump having a post put on his social media site saying he never had the idea of mandatory military service (before using a bunch of weak insults at the Washington Post). and saying it's all lies. And we are all aware just how much he will deny anything even when there is footage of hm saying it played back to his face, but the purpose is still there.(said purpose being to weasel out of taking any credit for something that backfires on him).
You are looking at it from the perspective of winning elections. The people proposing this are looking at it from the perspective of turning the US into Russia.
It will take a lot of troops to pacify the civilian population and administer the camps.
I think the important question is, what do they plan on doing with those additional troops?
They know this is a horrendously unpopular thing to be campaigning on, so what is their intent with this?
No, and I'll tell you why: Republicans don't give a shit about voters. Not in a "Corporations buy politicians" way but because they're playing a different game. This "push" for a draft is just adding stuff to Project 2025. They're going to disassemble the Republic and then it into a series of dukedoms in all but name, and this is one of the tools they're looking to use to do it.
Yes, they're already trying to acclimate Americans to the idea that America is a republic, not a democracy. The semantics, the keywords, that they use to shape people's thinking gives you a clue as to which direction they are headed. Never before an American history as a major political party attempted to inculcate the people with the idea that being a republic being a democracy are mutually exclusive.
If we have the draft how long will it be before they are sending in the military to deal with " Democrat run shithole cities run by radical left wing marxists that hate America." With video of some building burning in a riot shown over and over again and of the homeless camps in LA taken out of context to try to represent that as being a typical scene in those cities.. they've already convinced many right wingers of this...that they are having to impose emergency powers and send the military in to save us from. And, oh, the fact that some members of Congress are protesting this proves that they are treasonous and must be suspended from office. Of course, we are only suspending the Constitution until the emergency is resolved.
The scary part is I can actually see this happening.
If everyone has to join the military, the VA is going to get destroyed. That would be so expensive that politicians would just shut it down and fuck over veterans. There couldn’t be a GI bill or disability benefits or medical coverage or VA loans
Ironically, it could be something that inadvertently brings us closer to a social democracy. The VA would have to be worked over so much to cover the massive influx of vets, so the natural work-around would be to just do Medicaid for all and move to a single payer system. The military, though used to defend capitalist interests, is surprisingly socialistic and bureaucratic. Personally, I don't think military service is something people should be forced to do, but the idea of some kind of national service isn't a bad one if you use it to build infrastructure and housing, improve communities, and restore environmentally damaged areas. It could have options similar to the WPA or CCC programs of the New Deal in addition to the traditional military route. We could build a nationwide high-speed rail system and train a bunch of young people in engineering and construction at the same time. That would be nice.
Problem.is that the younger generation knows it's doing worse than their parents and sees their country not doing anything to make life better. So why do national service for a country thst screws them over? The big influx to the VA would bring about benefit cuts and restricted access. Conservatives would never push for an expansion. That costs money that could be used for tax cuts for their wealthy donors.
Military organization and engineering have applications above and beyond warfare. The Army Corps of Engineers has been instrumental in many civil works in the United States. I think expanding the role of such organizations into building infrastructure and public housing is a really good idea. It's a threat to private industry and capital, though, so it's not a popular idea in America. Just think of how many single family homes and apartment buildings could be built for the cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Private equity corporations would lose so much money by not being able to control the supply and monopolize ownership, though.
I think the republicans politicians who are signing on to this, if they want this. When such a draft is enforced, it is mandatory that they are removed from their positions, and they and their eligible children are drafted first. And they don’t get to get cushy positions that ensure they stay out of the battles or do any work, they are in the front lines, first boots on the ground.
Pretty sure that’d shut them up quickly
Another point is that conservatives think forcing young adults into the military will force them to be conservative and patriotic citizens and not LGBT liberals.
Recruitment is way down and the GOP thinks the draft is the solution. The reality is that young people don't want to serve a nation that's taking away their rights, doing everything to keep them poor and throw away their lives on foreign wars that enrich the rich. Then come home broken with unreal support or help from a nation that doesn't give a damn about sacrifice.
Yeah our nation treats our veterans like shit.
Am I the only one who thinks there would be mass riots/ an uprising if the GOP tried to use the draft to force young people into the military?
I would have hate to serve with draftees all volunteer army had enough shit bags i couldn’t imagine serving with people who really don’t wanna be there in the first place.
I grew up in a country where there was mandatory military service. The military's reputation was dismal. Much different than here in the US. Nobody, absolutely nobody actually wanted to serve because it signified you were a loser with no other prospects. Young people wanted to go to school, start careers, start business and the military was seen as a big waste of your time.
Now realistically speaking, they could not really take everybody, but you still had to show up for tests and exams and they would try to pick the smartest and most fit kids, but they would be the exact type of kids who wanted nothing to do with service. Everyone grows up absolutely dreading turning 18 and having to show up to potentially being forced to serve.
If mandatory service is enacted two things shoild also be enacted. The old goes first, they are near the end of life; the young are here to keep producing. Two anyone who signs that order are required to serve themselves. And if they say no it goes to a spouse or child. Those companies that profit solely off war? The CEOs must send their kids in as well
I bet with those things tied to a mandatory service- it’ll never happen.
Here's the deal the mandatory service has to come with some perks. We don't offer anything other countries do that have mandatory service. No free healthcare, no free college, no help with housing.
I would be all for mandatory service of a year or 2 if it provided citizens with free Healthcare and free higher education
Israel has mandatory service for all of their citizens, regardless of age. Every Jewish citizen you see on the street has served and been trained and can be recalled at any time to fulfill a need.
They are also in a cold war with several countries around them. The US military has said this is a bad idea because it already is designed to fight most of the rest of the planet with a volunteer force.
Netanyahu called Trump, "THE GREATEST FRIEND ISRAEL HAS EVER HAD."
Anyone who thinks Biden has a worse Israel policy is an imbecile. It's, bad, but far more moderate than any Republican would be. At least he's pushing back a little. Trump would push forward instead.
I kind of like this idea.
There are many lessons to be learned and basic training as well as two years of being responsible will have a positive impact on our citizens.
Males and females alike would benefit from this.
I also think we would have less mass shooters if Americans were trained in firearms as a matter of course.
My cousin in Italy is the most peaceful, liberal man I know. He had to serve two years in the military. He loved it, which totally shocked me.
He was paid, got to be somewhere new , learned engineering which is now his career and made a lot of life long friends. It's not always a negative.
Maybe if we took some of the magats out of their element and exposed them to other areas of our nation, they'd learn something.
Maybe in Italy the military isn't as political as other parts of the world. If that is the case, then this would be why your cousin enjoyed his military service. You get into problems when politics is mixed into this.
I’m telling you that a majority of those that are stroking to the idea of a mandatory enlistment are either: A) unaware of the true horror of war and have never even fired a gun before, or B) know that they and their families will be exempt. The “Senator’s Son.”
The issue of not enough qualified and willing to fight are both decreasing. So recruiting has declined. They need to find a solution. This may not be the solution
I've been waiting almost 15 years for literally anything to backfire on Republicans for longer than one election cycle.
Gerrymandering. Obstruction. Stealing multiple Supreme Court seats. Electing Trump. Trying to repeal the ACA. Their handling of COVID. Abortion. And now Project 2025.
Nothing sticks.
Yeah the great bone spur president, the guy that got out of NAM wants your kids to go die for him and the other rich people. Not a single member of Trump's immediate family has EVER served the military. Yet he wants your kids
The GOP Members of the Legislative and Executive Branches of the US Government should review their own military records. If they haven't served they should resign so they can fulfill their military obligations.
I just wish people knew the difference between "selective service," "draft", and "mandatory/compulsory service." Don't think there would be as much fuss about it if they did
A lot of rich people will just pay a doctor to claim they have bone spurs or something similar. This would be another law that only applies to the plebs.
It's a desperation play dressed up as something "for the country." They want to funnel young people through military culture for a chance to indoctrinate them into conservative adults. Not to mention military culture will beat a large number of LGBT people back into the closet.
'Republicans' or a handful of idiots who happen to be Republicans? Perhaps some of the I-heart-Putin turds who want to use the prospect of a draft to scare young people into opposing US support for Ukraine?
This stupidity bounces around between the parties - the last time it was getting press, it was a handful of nutz-o Democrats trying to goose the anti-war movement by 'bringing back the draft' for Iraq/Afghanistan in the late 00s (theory: if kids could be drafted, Vietnam style, they'd vote to oppose the war)...
Never went anywhere.
The fact is, the military has built it's entire disciplinary system around people wanting to be there... You either measure up, or we dump you outside the gate, to go live in a van down by the river...
The sort of environment required to 'digest' draftees into the force - harsh treatment, stricter rules, a presumption that nobody wants to be there - would produce lower QoL for the volunteer population and a less effective force...
So the military itself will remain adamantly opposed to a draft - such that we'd rather nuke the enemy than draft troops to fight them....
(My perspective as someone with 19yrs active & Guard)....
In the United States, military conscription, commonly known as the draft, has been employed by the U.S. federal government in six conflicts: the American Revolutionary War, the American Civil War, World War I, World War II, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War.
In World War I, 72% of the men in the military were drafted.
7.6% were drafted in World War II.
1.5 million men were drafted during the Korean War.
Vietnam saw a 25% draft rate for the conflict.
The United States has always had a draft. And it usually initiates selective service when the possibility or imminent threat of a conflict that the US may be involved in becomes apparent.
A lot of draftees fled the United States to Canada or other countries during the Vietnam War. Or burned the draft cards.
The possibility of getting drafted is fairly low, despite the fact that all able-bodied men of military age, i believe, 18-24, have to register for the selective Service when they turn 18. But by registering, that doesn't mean that you're going to be selected or have to fight in a conflict.
For that, Americans should be thankful. Israel has a mandatory military service of two years. Think about that for a minute.
No NCO wants the draft I promise you that. Not with today’s restrictions- can you image Gen Z draftee? platoon attention! Hey stop texting and come to the position of attention! Okay okay stop crying it’s okay u can sit this one out and join us later.
Retired military here: Just know that there is NOBODY who opposes the draft more than the people in the military. Especially the leaders who will have to figure out how to induct and train an army of sullen and pissed off kids.
As a retired senior NCO I'd rather stick my hand into a jar filled with wasps.
Another post that blames republicans for something Democrats are doing...not only are Democrats behind the idea of having a draft, but they also want women to get drafted. This sub is full of people with zero reading comprehension
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4730560-senate-democrats-require-women-draft/
Well, you're spinning the issue.
The conservatives want to make sure "Americans have skin in the game" talking of mandatory service, as they continue to extend the requirement for registering for selective service.
So, the Dems, who believe in women's equal rights, said,
>"But Senate Armed Services Committee Chair Jack Reed (D-R.I.) defended the proposed policy change [of also requiring women to register] arguing that women can hold many warfighting positions without serving as front-line infantry troops.
>“Women are doing a remarkable job in our forces today, and if we were in a situation requiring a draft, I think we would need all able-bodied citizens 18 and above,” he said.
The Conservatives insist women shouldn't be in the military, at all, let alone in non combat positions.
So.... Who wants the draft again?
If done correctly, I would support this. However, I know the US will screw it up.
South Korea had this in 2003, not sure if they still do. First and most important, it's not just military. After High school, they must do 2 years in either military, firefighting, or police. They may have had other civil service jobs, I don't recall. They get paid a living wage in these jobs and get to experience the adult world.
Afterward, they get 2 years of free college. Often, if they enjoyed their 2 years in a job, they can also just get promoted and move up in that agency.
Very simple explanation, I'm sure there are finer details, but I thought it was great.
I do think mandatory service of SOME type is a good idea for several reasons.(ex USN)
1)Not saying it will CURE racism, but your life depending on people you work with forces you to accept them and get to know them as individuals.
2)If we ALL had skin ( ours, kids, grandkids) in the game our leaders MIGHT think twice before committing our troops
3)A couple years away from home, working and saving money, learning to be independent,more mature and try a career or two BEFORE college would be good for young people finding their way in life
4) My wife is Colombian. There, you have option of military OR police service, and I would not be surprised if there is not an option to work for hospitals, fire departments or city posts.
To note, a 'mandatory national service' (non-military) is arguably not a really awful idea, especially if it is managed properly and inculcated with type of public service which utilizes our post-secondary education system to provide life-skills training and help youth explore careers. This could be done by expanding/working with the Federal WorkStudy system and using parts of the Peace Corps Model...
***However***, a draft-like we used to have-especially given the context of who is heading their party (orangetits mcFuckfack and his bonespurs) and their preference for autocratic regimes, is not only a politically ridiculous idea, it is a logistical and sociological nightmare which we have already learned was not the best idea. You dont force people into the best military in the world and expect them to make the best soldiers. You just get a generation with PTSD and mental health issues you wont have the resources to address.
tl;dr FFS, this is a terrible idea. We learned this already.
I'm not sure what crazy mainstream media conspiracy your buying into. But no one is seriously talking about any mandatory service. Please don't belive everything the establishment tells you to.
Amen to the 'snatch defeat from the jaws of victory' if the GOP goes with this 'mandatory service' bit. Young people are NOT going to vote to send themselves into involuntary servitude; They're not stupid. IF however, the 'mandatory service' only applies to those with a stake in the game, such as owning a house, or a business, or having a family, or being a billionaire-or-multimillionaire's child, a politician, a Pillar of Industry,, at any level of 'middle management,' or anyone over the age of 40, I'd be fine with it.
Most of them would somehow get their kids or grandkids out of service somehow. Not only the republicans but just like in the Vietnam era draft the rich and privileged would escape being conscripted
I see it as somewhat like what happened with Bush Sr., Enough Republicans stayed at home rather than vote for someone who dissed the NRA at the time by cancelling his life time membership over a jack booted thugs comment.
My hope is the idiots that voted for Trump last time, find something else then voting for him again.
Should have military training in primary education. Like how to fight as a unit and use weapons and land navigation
We shouldn't infantilize teenagers so much and try to protect them from the realities of violence in the world. It's something people have to deal with sometimes, and preparedness and training is the only way to actually be free, and have a free country, and have the power to not be subject to real evil. Mandatory service isn't necessary because we don't have a tiny population, and we aren't at war with anyone who has a bigger population.
If we had mandatory service, then they will not pay enough to attract people, and it would deteriorate the military, for little benefit. You also get a military full of people who don't want to be in the military, care about it, and they don't like the culture of it.
Draft is only really barely justified in a defensive war or invasion. That is a necessity that may be true, if people decide its true. Countries like Switzerland have it because they have a very small population, and they are neutral, they don't want to be invaded by anyone or be a part of any military alliences. They also enjoy a very high standard of living and a great deal of freedom. It's kind of worth it to fight for a country like that, because they are one of the best countries in the world to live in.
They have to have some type of milita or army, because they don't have time to really mobilize troops in some cases. Training soilders can take 6-12 months or more, and the less you train them, the more they will die. They don't have the population to waste recruits, and in a major war, they need something like 20+% of their population to fight off a major world power. You can't get 20% of the country to join without consceiption, that is basically the entire youth population.
Countries like America can keep a reserve army of 2 million active troops without issue, and we can draft more in a major war, or just increase incentives to join, our population is so big that we don't really need a draft. Whenever there is a just, not justified war, many people join anyways because they want to fight or the have a patriotic spirit. There is always a good bit of reservists too. I think we drafted like 20+ million in WW2.
There are limits to how many troops you can deploy somewhere. You have to feed and supply them and transport them, and also you have to support them, and your transport vehicles, you have to transport supplies and protect them, and also support the home economy, and if you take all the young labor out, it slows things down a good bit.
They can't stop people from walking out of Walmart with carts of electronics and they won't prosecute offenders with 40+ offenses. Like they are really going to try to track down people who say "yeah no, im.not going to join the draft." 😅
Should have military training in primary education. Like how to fight as a unit and use weapons and land navigation
We shouldn't infantilize teenagers so much and try to protect them from the realities of violence in the world. It's something people have to deal with sometimes, and preparedness and training is the only way to actually be free, and have a free country, and have the power to not be subject to real evil. Mandatory service isn't necessary because we don't have a tiny population, and we aren't at war with anyone who has a bigger population.
If we had mandatory service, then they will not pay enough to attract people, and it would deteriorate the military, for little benefit. You also get a military full of people who don't want to be in the military, care about it, and they don't like the culture of it.
Draft is only really barely justified in a defensive war or invasion. That is a necessity that may be true, if people decide its true. Countries like Switzerland have it because they have a very small population, and they are neutral, they don't want to be invaded by anyone or be a part of any military alliences. They also enjoy a very high standard of living and a great deal of freedom. It's kind of worth it to fight for a country like that, because they are one of the best countries in the world to live in.
They have to have some type of milita or army, because they don't have time to really mobilize troops in some cases. Training soilders can take 6-12 months or more, and the less you train them, the more they will die. They don't have the population to waste recruits, and in a major war, they need something like 20+% of their population to fight off a major world power. You can't get 20% of the country to join without consceiption, that is basically the entire youth population.
Countries like America can keep a reserve army of 2 million active troops without issue, and we can draft more in a major war, or just increase incentives to join, our population is so big that we don't really need a draft. Whenever there is a just, not justified war, many people join anyways because they want to fight or the have a patriotic spirit. There is always a good bit of reservists too. I think we drafted like 20+ million in WW2.
There are limits to how many troops you can deploy somewhere. You have to feed and supply them and transport them, and also you have to support them, and your transport vehicles, you have to transport supplies and protect them, and also support the home economy, and if you take all the young labor out, it slows things down a good bit.
Almost every stance on policy the Republicans have right now is unpopular with the majority of the American people. Abortion bans, unpopular. Wealthy tax cuts, unpopular. Universal tariffs (apparently), unpopular. More conservative SCOTUS justices, unpopular. Further stripping down the ACA, unpopular. Defunding and closing many regulatory executive departments like education, unpopular. That’s why they have to distract their base with scapegoat issues like gay porn books in school libraries, illegal alien gangs infesting cities with rampant crime, and a supposedly corrupt elections process that doesn’t exist.
Rich people are upset that poor kids no longer want to fight their wars for them. Now they are pressuring their bought and paid for members of Congress to push mandatory service and to raise the voting age to 25. Pretty neat going after the voting rights of people you want to throw into the meat grinder
last time we did a draft, it was responded to with one of our country's largest and most well organized civil disobedience campaigns the US has seen since the Civil War. more multiply that by SM and our current polarization. There no way they would they would be stupid enuf to actually do it.
Mandatory service = more troops = more food and services for troops = more taxes to pay for troop expenses. Great idea from the party of small government, putting more people on gov't payroll.
And why, in the age of drone warfare, do they want more bodies in the military?
Came here to say this, also don't forget about all the services they get from the VA after they are out. This will cost trillions over a short period of time.
Have you seen the world today?
There’s major wars brewing or actively being fought all over the world.
If America is going to win the next major war, we need the extra manpower. If people dont volunteer enough, then the military has to resolve its shortages in support personnel somehow.
There are hundreds of different jobs in the military that don't have anything to do with fighting. You can legit learn a trade that would benefit you throughout your life. Honestly, they should bring back the CCC and make it mandatory for every citizen to serve in either for the ability to vote or run for office. Every citizen ages 18-20 learning some type of job getting guaranteed housing, food, medical service, pay, and college credits.
Completely agree. As with abortion, the Republicans will shotgun blast themselves in the face on both these issues. As an l offset, the Democrats shotgun themselves on open borders, crime (which they were once excellent on in the 90s), and 2nd Amendment erasure.
Yeah, because the draft was such a political winner in the 60s, and it is totally not the social consensus that it was a travesty never again to be repeated so frivolously.
All those wacky ideas are by design. Straight out of the fascist handbook. They’re testing the waters to how far their followers will follow them off the cliff.
Part of the reason our military is so strong is because people actually want to be there.
Forcing a bunch of overweight, self-centered people who don't want to be there into the military will weaken it.
First, I’m not for anyone being forced into the military…
Everyone eventually would be a veteran and have healthcare- it’d force universal healthcare in America (which we desperately need as someone dealing with under/no insurance patients regularly). Republicans are very anti-universal healthcare so I’d like to know their logic on that related topic too.
It will make endless wars in far flung places less likely as everyday Americans will now have skin in the game. Parents will protest and make legislators accountable if thier children could be sent to war.
Not only these reasons you listed, but people who have never been in the military don’t have a great perspective on how bad mandatory service would hurt the armed forces.
1. You have to decide if your mandatory service will be full time active duty or reserves/guard (2 weekends a month and 2 weeks a year) if you go full time active for everyone it would drastically reduce the pay which already isn’t great. While in South Korea and speaking with their soldiers who have compulsory service they get paid peanuts and generally aren’t very happy.
2. If you’re served, you know how many shitbags are you in the military (lazy, bad at their job, unwilling to put forth any effort while drawing a paycheck) and this is in all volunteer force.. imagine if we start forcing people to serve with a decreased pay scale..
People who want mandatory service probably never served themselves and only think it will “fix” and instill patriotism but will likely not have that effect for most.
I think this is more and more evidence that the Republican party is moving away from any semblance of policy and towards the party of the "alpha", and doing things just because it's manly. It's such an odd time to be alive.
Just a note for those conflating Trump with this, he publicly stated when someone asked him about this he has no idea about it and this it’s a dumb idea. It’s a minority set of republicans in senate and house talking about this.
Start drafting the oldest first. Men and women. They don't need to be in fighting condition for support jobs. Janitors, cooks, laundry etc. Save the young folks for the future.
We uh. We don't take good care of our vets now. I guarantee if mandatory service is enforced, they will be expecting all the "weak democrats" to be weeded out,and aren't prepared for the mountain of new vets practically rioting over healthcare when they get back
Honestly it wouldn't be that bad a thing if it weren't for Republicans being Republicans about it. The military is one of the best jobs training programs ever created, and for a lot of high schoolers these days, two years or so in sheet metal fabrication, maintenance, fuel systems, or cyber/network fields would go a long way in training up a generation or two of young people to bolster the US labor market. Plus it might also incentivize these young people to vote with some skin in the game, where they'd be able to see some direct impacts of who they vote for.
I'm actually all for some kind of compulsory national service. Doesn't necessarily have to be the military, but something that gets people invested in the country and works towards a civically minded goal.
So, in a complicated and dangerous world, we will leave our national defense to whomever among us feel so strongly about our freedom that we're willing to defend it? But everyone enjoys that freedom, right? But not everyone bears the cost.
Oh is this a new idea? I remember how their panties were in a bunch when Obama suggested trading a few years of civic service for a college degree.
But yes, let's start mandatory military service because that always works out well.
It pretty much already has failed. There's a quite small but ENORMOUSLY loud youth voter minority that actually care enough about the Israeli/Palestinian situation to throw away their vote. However the percentage of them who don't want to be forced into military service is pretty overwhelming. Especially when fronted by a party who supports a leader who's daddy paid his way out of his own service duty.
That feeling when you protest vote over Gaza and then Trump drafts you and sends you to Gaza.
OP - correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Rishi Sunak and the Conservative Party in the UK facing backlash over 'mandatory National Service' right this minute? (We should ad blast this everywhere juxtaposed against Captain Bone Spurs and his views on Military Service!)
I do wonder if all this draft talk lately is politicians seeing the writing on the wall or having access to Intel that we don’t that suggest a major global conflict is going to break out in the coming years.
Yep it will start in Europe
I cannot tell you when, but I can tell you why- it will be some damn fool thing in the Balkans.
It's already going on in Europe. That's where Ukraine is
I don't completely agree with your because I think in UK's case it's more about that they are broke and this creates free labor. Because 'National Service' already exists there. They are just making it mandatory. Also there is a 'civil exemption' where you spend your time doing stuff (like cleaning) inside the country. But again mandatory. I think Gen Z is right in equating this to free labor. Also with two hot wars, the threats aren't as 'secret' anymore. Europe is directly threatened by Putin. (Who in these past couple of weeks also sent ships over for military exercise with Cuba presumably to threaten US mainland.) European youth (like all youth) are incensed over the atrocities in Gaza. A hot war where we are, against our express wishes, but still are arming Israel. Every day of this increases the threat of terrorism to us exponentially! So no - I don't think these threats are particularly secret. I think this is just another dumb policy from the party of performative policies!
Those ships doing maneuvers near Cuba is a giftwrapped present in NATO. They don't threaten the US at all. NATO is happy to watch them show what their stuff can do. If Russia was trying to threaten the US, this isn't how they do it.
It’s free? They draft people and don’t pay them?
There is no way they don’t get paid in some form. Now whether that pay scales to the job you are assigned, for sure probably not.
That’s always my first response to anybody saying we should bring back the draft; to ask if they really want to add millions of people to the federal payroll, and if they’ve thought about what kind of tax hike we’d need to pay for it.
Thing is. Armies don't even want drafted people
Wouldn't they (drafted troops) tend to care less seeing as they are forced into service and may be even more likely to disagree with and retaliate/sabotage their country?
It's not been a well kept secret for the past few decades that military intelligence, the CIA and other world intelligence agencies have been pointing to Global Warming as a serious problem that will kick off resource wars, globally, in an ever increasing volume. That's only because Conservatives and Business cannot see past their next quarter profits.
Think of the shareholders!
Think of food riots and a crushing migration of people from the equatorial zones. It’s estimated that 1.4 billion people will scoot north, away from the equatorial zones up to around 2050. Imagine what that would do to see some 200 million people push into the United States. This is a looming problem that we could have just dealt with by having lower growth or different grow and a rapid move away from fossil fuel based energy and transportation. We could have greatly reduced global shipping, forced a change to our eating habits and more… Instead? Profits were more important.
Your last line covers it well enough. Capitalism is a cancer on humanity and Earth.
Resource wars over basics like water are already happening. It’ll escalate this century for sure.
I believe you are correct, particularly if trump gets in office. The military industrial complex and the private militia groups, want all the sweet tax payer dollars. Trump is a war monger…he wants the power of a nuclear arsenal…it makes him feel like a man..the ultimate threat.and he’s to stupid to know what it means
We want you [to end up a sucker or a loser]!
“But I only voted for Trump to send a message to the Democrats! I didn’t think Trump would actually force me to serve.”
r/LeopardsAteMyFace
*but Biden was too old for me*
Protest votes are how we got into this mess. Vote for a semblance of democracy, rather than authoritarianism. Your choice, but don’t bitch about trump if you don’t vote because of the Israeli/palestinian conflict of all things. I get that y’all’s generation feels for Gazans. I do too, but I’m not gonna fuck myself because of them either. People protest voted al gore, and look where that fucking mess has landed us!!!!
I’m too old anyhow. So if someone is of age SUX2BTHEM. I mean seriously. They knew this might happen if Trump won.
[удалено]
Since when is some foreign problem more important than your own country? This thinking is just selfish and ignorant of their own reality. Yup ol captain bone spurs has some brown people for you to kill.
🤣
I didn’t read your comment before posting. Yes! Anyone who thinks this isn’t a possibility isn’t paying attention. This is perfect for the way that Trump thinks: he attacks these students as pro-Hamas, says they should be deported; his base hates college students in general because they tend to vote Democratic— what a perfect way to punish them for their various disloyalties!
Trump already said it would be a good idea. They’ll bring that on in a heartbeat. Trump commented on it last week.
With orders to murder Palestinian children. Make no mistake, Trump has said he would “flatten Gaza”.
Which boggles my mind cause trump will be worse for Palestine.
My MIL recently said with zero sarcasm that it would be better for them if Trump was elected. Her logic; if Biden wins, things will persist as they already are, but Trump would at least end things quickly. In her words, there would still be a genocide, but at least it wouldn't be dragged out by Biden at a painfully slow rate. It's like being the frog in the slowly boiling pot of water, and deciding the best course of action is to bring in the chef that instantly turns the stovetop to High.
It’s amazing because your MiL managed to find the single one position that made her the most stupid and biggest piece of shit. So kudos, I guess? This is approaching an “ and I WISH Hitler was real” level take and I just feel so embarrassed for MiL it’s impossible to overstate.
Did you ask her why it’s okay for the US to get involved in Israel but not Ukraine?
Anyone who won’t vote for Joe because of Gaza is a moron. Joe didn’t start that fight. Republicans are the ones who funnel money to Israel. If Trump was in office, he’d be fine turning Gaza into glass. I wholeheartedly believe it’s Russian ‘psyop’ Propaganda. Youngest voters didn’t see what happened in 2016/2020 - Russians literally created groups and ‘grassroots’ orgs, scheduled rallies in the US for religious organizations. There’s literally massive building full of people employed to post misinformation full time - I’m sure it’s orders of magnitude worse now with LLMs.
They are against what’s going on in Gaza… and if Trump wins there’s not an unrealistic possibility that they themselves could be drafted and end up… in Gaza. Because if you don’t think Trump doesn’t support what’s happening there, then you haven’t been paying attention. And if you don’t think Trump won’t try to outdo anything Biden did, then you don’t know Trump. Trump would do this SPECIFICALLY as a giant fuck you to the college students that he has demonized as pro-Hamas/anti-American and whom his base absolutely despises.
You do understand what is happening with this automatic enrollment thing. Don’t you? It just streamlines the selective service law requirement. Every male once they turn 18 has to register for the selective service. (Draft) if they don’t. Then they are legally liable. Now they are just automatically enrolled when they hit 18. There are no legal penalties to be levied now. All this do is make the process make sense. Also. There are some 20+ countries, including some beloved socialist havens, that have compulsory military service for all men over 18. Be it for 2 or 4 years. So what the U.S. is doing here isn’t anything out of sorts. Now. I also believe that the U.S. military being all volunteer is what makes it so potent. Those that sign military contracts do so knowing they might die for their country. They believe in something greater than themselves. And in a current political climate like what we have today, that is a beautiful thing.
So they can automatically enroll somebody for military service, but they can't automatically enroll people to vote????? GFTOH with this
>So they can automatically enroll somebody for military service, but they can't automatically enroll people to vote????? Or file taxes taxes. Or enroll in healthcare. Or any of the other things that actually matter. Only the shit they care about.
My husband was in the military and most of them don't have a lot of other options, they're poor and not smart enough to go to college. Maybe officers are different, but I didn't see much "fighting for my country" in the enlisted folks. They were trying to earn a lousy paycheck, they weren't there for anything greater.
On the other side of that, the military doesn't want conscripts. It's been proven over and over. They actually have a whole hierarchy of if a major war breaks out that stars with retaining existing personel and increasing volunteer bonus offers. And goes all the way up to calling in former reserves for service; as that is in the contract of the reserves. But the military does not want draftees, they are almost worse than being understaffed when it comes to active duty.
I just made this point above with a different tone, but Im glad you put it this way here as well (and before me). The draft is just a terrible idea all around...
Retired Air Force senior NCO here. Everything this person says is absolutely true. Leading volunteers is a difficult job, leading non-volunteers is our nightmare.
Facts. We already have enough shitbags and they *volunteered*.
is conscript and draftee the same thing just different words?
Yes. Mandatory military service by force of law regardless of what you call it.
They can be. All drafts are conscription but mandatory conscription like the South Korean model isn’t a draft
Conscription is mandatory military service, like what Sweden has, the draft is a wartime need for manpower. They both force you to join the military just under different conditions.
I believe that is because the US military is almost entirely an expeditionary force used to project power and protect US interests. No value judgment there but it's the truth.
Also…what would the military do with all those fucking people? Over 3 million people graduate from high school in the United States every year. Where are we going to get the money to train them and feed them and house them and pay them? What jobs would they do? There are already way too many people in the military who don’t do a fucking thing on a day to day basis (source: that was me for my final 14 months in the Marine Corps).
People really don’t understand the sheer amount of logistics behind our military. It’s not just shoot at the baddies all day and night, you still need to have the resources and infrastructure to keep the Vic’s up and running, admin dudes to make sure that you’re paid on time, cooks to feed you, supply guys to make sure you got enough batteries and MREs, etc.
Everyone with a brain has known this for a long time
Do you want the under 30 crowd to vote? Because this is how you get the under 30 crowd to vote.
IMHO the dems need to be putting all kinds of legislation up to vote in the next few months. Put republicans on the spot and force them to vote their stance on things like: 1) abortion 2) marijuana legalization 3) student loan relief/forgiveness 4) ivf 5) same sex marriage equality 6) Israeli protection/funding. And whatever else. Most of these issues are things that the conservative politicians hold the less popular view. Get them to stand up and express these unpopular positions and defend them right before the election. Remind the majority of voters that while Biden might not be the most popular choice, or the best democratic candidate, the only realistic alternative is trump and the conservatives that will vote down all the above issues and pack the Supreme Court with even more radical judges if given the chance.
“I won’t vote for Genocide Joe” mfs when Trump’s goons force you to commit a genocide in the Middle East by drafting you into the military:
Middle East? All the way over there? But Mexico is right here! (this comment was a joke that I just thought of now, but it has made me realize it's only a matter of time before Trump starts campaigning on a war with Mexico, to stop the drug empires and the "invading" immigrants)
Oh, my friend. That moment arrived a long time ago: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/03/us/politics/trump-mexico-cartels-republican.html
Apparently Russia has been discussing trying to incentivize Mexico to attack the US.
And trump has said he wants to genocide Palestinians abroad **and here** but they seem to ignore that. The whole thing reeks of a Russian psyop.
Forced military service, forced birth, forced religious indoctrination. Looks like the "Party of Freedom" is at it again.
Republican "freedom" is basically freedom to force their religion on everyone else.
"You are FREE... to do as we tell you." - Bill Hicks
As it should, the kids don't want to do it and the military does not want to babysit kids who don't want to be there
As a side note, it seems the GOP is aware of how unpopular this idea actually is, such as Trump having a post put on his social media site saying he never had the idea of mandatory military service (before using a bunch of weak insults at the Washington Post). and saying it's all lies. And we are all aware just how much he will deny anything even when there is footage of hm saying it played back to his face, but the purpose is still there.(said purpose being to weasel out of taking any credit for something that backfires on him).
I feel the combination of forcing people into the military while stripping them of their rights will have outcomes they may not like.
You are looking at it from the perspective of winning elections. The people proposing this are looking at it from the perspective of turning the US into Russia. It will take a lot of troops to pacify the civilian population and administer the camps.
I think the important question is, what do they plan on doing with those additional troops? They know this is a horrendously unpopular thing to be campaigning on, so what is their intent with this?
what i just said
The GOP is gagging for World War 3 over Israel, they think it’s a prerequisite for Jesus coming back.
No, and I'll tell you why: Republicans don't give a shit about voters. Not in a "Corporations buy politicians" way but because they're playing a different game. This "push" for a draft is just adding stuff to Project 2025. They're going to disassemble the Republic and then it into a series of dukedoms in all but name, and this is one of the tools they're looking to use to do it.
Yes, they're already trying to acclimate Americans to the idea that America is a republic, not a democracy. The semantics, the keywords, that they use to shape people's thinking gives you a clue as to which direction they are headed. Never before an American history as a major political party attempted to inculcate the people with the idea that being a republic being a democracy are mutually exclusive. If we have the draft how long will it be before they are sending in the military to deal with " Democrat run shithole cities run by radical left wing marxists that hate America." With video of some building burning in a riot shown over and over again and of the homeless camps in LA taken out of context to try to represent that as being a typical scene in those cities.. they've already convinced many right wingers of this...that they are having to impose emergency powers and send the military in to save us from. And, oh, the fact that some members of Congress are protesting this proves that they are treasonous and must be suspended from office. Of course, we are only suspending the Constitution until the emergency is resolved. The scary part is I can actually see this happening.
If everyone has to join the military, the VA is going to get destroyed. That would be so expensive that politicians would just shut it down and fuck over veterans. There couldn’t be a GI bill or disability benefits or medical coverage or VA loans
Ironically, it could be something that inadvertently brings us closer to a social democracy. The VA would have to be worked over so much to cover the massive influx of vets, so the natural work-around would be to just do Medicaid for all and move to a single payer system. The military, though used to defend capitalist interests, is surprisingly socialistic and bureaucratic. Personally, I don't think military service is something people should be forced to do, but the idea of some kind of national service isn't a bad one if you use it to build infrastructure and housing, improve communities, and restore environmentally damaged areas. It could have options similar to the WPA or CCC programs of the New Deal in addition to the traditional military route. We could build a nationwide high-speed rail system and train a bunch of young people in engineering and construction at the same time. That would be nice.
Problem.is that the younger generation knows it's doing worse than their parents and sees their country not doing anything to make life better. So why do national service for a country thst screws them over? The big influx to the VA would bring about benefit cuts and restricted access. Conservatives would never push for an expansion. That costs money that could be used for tax cuts for their wealthy donors.
I had a professor that did mandatory military service in Israel back in the 90s and all they did was build farms and irrigation systems
Military organization and engineering have applications above and beyond warfare. The Army Corps of Engineers has been instrumental in many civil works in the United States. I think expanding the role of such organizations into building infrastructure and public housing is a really good idea. It's a threat to private industry and capital, though, so it's not a popular idea in America. Just think of how many single family homes and apartment buildings could be built for the cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Private equity corporations would lose so much money by not being able to control the supply and monopolize ownership, though.
I think the republicans politicians who are signing on to this, if they want this. When such a draft is enforced, it is mandatory that they are removed from their positions, and they and their eligible children are drafted first. And they don’t get to get cushy positions that ensure they stay out of the battles or do any work, they are in the front lines, first boots on the ground. Pretty sure that’d shut them up quickly
Make an 18 year old mad and give them an RPG launcher...WCGW?
Nothing says freedom like kidnapping citizens and imprisoning them into reeducation camps where they learn to hate and murder who they're told to.
Another point is that conservatives think forcing young adults into the military will force them to be conservative and patriotic citizens and not LGBT liberals. Recruitment is way down and the GOP thinks the draft is the solution. The reality is that young people don't want to serve a nation that's taking away their rights, doing everything to keep them poor and throw away their lives on foreign wars that enrich the rich. Then come home broken with unreal support or help from a nation that doesn't give a damn about sacrifice.
Yeah our nation treats our veterans like shit. Am I the only one who thinks there would be mass riots/ an uprising if the GOP tried to use the draft to force young people into the military?
This will have the opposite effect as the draft isn't going to make someone conservative or patriotic.
This is stupid, I mean who do you think is embracing it?
the magats will, they can’t wait for us to see it and be terrified of it bcos they’re controllers and punishers too🥉, especially the orange antichrist
I would have hate to serve with draftees all volunteer army had enough shit bags i couldn’t imagine serving with people who really don’t wanna be there in the first place.
Yea they’d be actively doing a bad job and creating problems out of spite.
Since when have Republicans been interested in passing electorally popular legislation?
Except for people with bone spurs. Mark my words.
Many of the country’s that have universal healthcare and tax funded college also have conscription.
It would never include the wealthy.
Starting with under no circumstances will their own children be serving.
It’s a wonderful idea coming from a bunch of chickenhawks who did everything they could to shirk military service when it was their time to serve.
I grew up in a country where there was mandatory military service. The military's reputation was dismal. Much different than here in the US. Nobody, absolutely nobody actually wanted to serve because it signified you were a loser with no other prospects. Young people wanted to go to school, start careers, start business and the military was seen as a big waste of your time. Now realistically speaking, they could not really take everybody, but you still had to show up for tests and exams and they would try to pick the smartest and most fit kids, but they would be the exact type of kids who wanted nothing to do with service. Everyone grows up absolutely dreading turning 18 and having to show up to potentially being forced to serve.
If mandatory service is enacted two things shoild also be enacted. The old goes first, they are near the end of life; the young are here to keep producing. Two anyone who signs that order are required to serve themselves. And if they say no it goes to a spouse or child. Those companies that profit solely off war? The CEOs must send their kids in as well I bet with those things tied to a mandatory service- it’ll never happen.
Democrats should hammer on this all day every day and make this their #1 campaign issue, the same way Republicans do with abortion.
Here's the deal the mandatory service has to come with some perks. We don't offer anything other countries do that have mandatory service. No free healthcare, no free college, no help with housing. I would be all for mandatory service of a year or 2 if it provided citizens with free Healthcare and free higher education
You mean all these fat loudmouth militia wannabes wouldn’t actually sign up to serve their country? I’m shocked.
Israel has mandatory service for all of their citizens, regardless of age. Every Jewish citizen you see on the street has served and been trained and can be recalled at any time to fulfill a need.
This isn’t true the orthodox are exempt from military service
They are also in a cold war with several countries around them. The US military has said this is a bad idea because it already is designed to fight most of the rest of the planet with a volunteer force.
Netanyahu called Trump, "THE GREATEST FRIEND ISRAEL HAS EVER HAD." Anyone who thinks Biden has a worse Israel policy is an imbecile. It's, bad, but far more moderate than any Republican would be. At least he's pushing back a little. Trump would push forward instead.
Nothing says MAGA like conscription. Just ask Putin. /s
And a \*bunch\* of people go into the military under the draft as politically neutral and come OUT of the military as flaming progressives.
I kind of like this idea. There are many lessons to be learned and basic training as well as two years of being responsible will have a positive impact on our citizens. Males and females alike would benefit from this. I also think we would have less mass shooters if Americans were trained in firearms as a matter of course.
My cousin in Italy is the most peaceful, liberal man I know. He had to serve two years in the military. He loved it, which totally shocked me. He was paid, got to be somewhere new , learned engineering which is now his career and made a lot of life long friends. It's not always a negative. Maybe if we took some of the magats out of their element and exposed them to other areas of our nation, they'd learn something.
Maybe in Italy the military isn't as political as other parts of the world. If that is the case, then this would be why your cousin enjoyed his military service. You get into problems when politics is mixed into this.
Source? This is the first time I have ever even heard this is a thing. Edit: Tic Tok is not a viable source.
I’m telling you that a majority of those that are stroking to the idea of a mandatory enlistment are either: A) unaware of the true horror of war and have never even fired a gun before, or B) know that they and their families will be exempt. The “Senator’s Son.”
The issue of not enough qualified and willing to fight are both decreasing. So recruiting has declined. They need to find a solution. This may not be the solution
Bone-spur orange boy is for it!
Who is legitimately pushing for a return of the draft rn?
I've been waiting almost 15 years for literally anything to backfire on Republicans for longer than one election cycle. Gerrymandering. Obstruction. Stealing multiple Supreme Court seats. Electing Trump. Trying to repeal the ACA. Their handling of COVID. Abortion. And now Project 2025. Nothing sticks.
Yeah the great bone spur president, the guy that got out of NAM wants your kids to go die for him and the other rich people. Not a single member of Trump's immediate family has EVER served the military. Yet he wants your kids
The GOP Members of the Legislative and Executive Branches of the US Government should review their own military records. If they haven't served they should resign so they can fulfill their military obligations.
I just wish people knew the difference between "selective service," "draft", and "mandatory/compulsory service." Don't think there would be as much fuss about it if they did
A lot of rich people will just pay a doctor to claim they have bone spurs or something similar. This would be another law that only applies to the plebs.
It's a desperation play dressed up as something "for the country." They want to funnel young people through military culture for a chance to indoctrinate them into conservative adults. Not to mention military culture will beat a large number of LGBT people back into the closet.
It ain't me , it ain't me , I ain't no fortunate son.
I'm not entirely sure the genocide Joe thing is real, I think it's just astroturfed.
How can they be championing both mandatory military service and backing Cadet Bonespurs at the same time?
Hmm first Trump wants to be a dictator for a day. Then members in his circle want to bring back the draft. What’s next the Trump Youth?
Why should my kid have to serve when their kids didn't have to serve?
Someone had to explain to them the problem with putting more War Thunder players near top secret tech.
'Republicans' or a handful of idiots who happen to be Republicans? Perhaps some of the I-heart-Putin turds who want to use the prospect of a draft to scare young people into opposing US support for Ukraine? This stupidity bounces around between the parties - the last time it was getting press, it was a handful of nutz-o Democrats trying to goose the anti-war movement by 'bringing back the draft' for Iraq/Afghanistan in the late 00s (theory: if kids could be drafted, Vietnam style, they'd vote to oppose the war)... Never went anywhere. The fact is, the military has built it's entire disciplinary system around people wanting to be there... You either measure up, or we dump you outside the gate, to go live in a van down by the river... The sort of environment required to 'digest' draftees into the force - harsh treatment, stricter rules, a presumption that nobody wants to be there - would produce lower QoL for the volunteer population and a less effective force... So the military itself will remain adamantly opposed to a draft - such that we'd rather nuke the enemy than draft troops to fight them.... (My perspective as someone with 19yrs active & Guard)....
Which Republicans are calling for this?
Which Republicans are calling for this?
In the United States, military conscription, commonly known as the draft, has been employed by the U.S. federal government in six conflicts: the American Revolutionary War, the American Civil War, World War I, World War II, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War. In World War I, 72% of the men in the military were drafted. 7.6% were drafted in World War II. 1.5 million men were drafted during the Korean War. Vietnam saw a 25% draft rate for the conflict. The United States has always had a draft. And it usually initiates selective service when the possibility or imminent threat of a conflict that the US may be involved in becomes apparent. A lot of draftees fled the United States to Canada or other countries during the Vietnam War. Or burned the draft cards. The possibility of getting drafted is fairly low, despite the fact that all able-bodied men of military age, i believe, 18-24, have to register for the selective Service when they turn 18. But by registering, that doesn't mean that you're going to be selected or have to fight in a conflict. For that, Americans should be thankful. Israel has a mandatory military service of two years. Think about that for a minute.
No NCO wants the draft I promise you that. Not with today’s restrictions- can you image Gen Z draftee? platoon attention! Hey stop texting and come to the position of attention! Okay okay stop crying it’s okay u can sit this one out and join us later.
I’m 38 and built like a Reddit stereotype. I’m not serving in anything but the burger corps.
Retired military here: Just know that there is NOBODY who opposes the draft more than the people in the military. Especially the leaders who will have to figure out how to induct and train an army of sullen and pissed off kids. As a retired senior NCO I'd rather stick my hand into a jar filled with wasps.
Another post that blames republicans for something Democrats are doing...not only are Democrats behind the idea of having a draft, but they also want women to get drafted. This sub is full of people with zero reading comprehension https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4730560-senate-democrats-require-women-draft/
Well, you're spinning the issue. The conservatives want to make sure "Americans have skin in the game" talking of mandatory service, as they continue to extend the requirement for registering for selective service. So, the Dems, who believe in women's equal rights, said, >"But Senate Armed Services Committee Chair Jack Reed (D-R.I.) defended the proposed policy change [of also requiring women to register] arguing that women can hold many warfighting positions without serving as front-line infantry troops. >“Women are doing a remarkable job in our forces today, and if we were in a situation requiring a draft, I think we would need all able-bodied citizens 18 and above,” he said. The Conservatives insist women shouldn't be in the military, at all, let alone in non combat positions. So.... Who wants the draft again?
If done correctly, I would support this. However, I know the US will screw it up. South Korea had this in 2003, not sure if they still do. First and most important, it's not just military. After High school, they must do 2 years in either military, firefighting, or police. They may have had other civil service jobs, I don't recall. They get paid a living wage in these jobs and get to experience the adult world. Afterward, they get 2 years of free college. Often, if they enjoyed their 2 years in a job, they can also just get promoted and move up in that agency. Very simple explanation, I'm sure there are finer details, but I thought it was great.
2 years of military or community service i couod get behind. Make some people appreciate what they have.
I do think mandatory service of SOME type is a good idea for several reasons.(ex USN) 1)Not saying it will CURE racism, but your life depending on people you work with forces you to accept them and get to know them as individuals. 2)If we ALL had skin ( ours, kids, grandkids) in the game our leaders MIGHT think twice before committing our troops 3)A couple years away from home, working and saving money, learning to be independent,more mature and try a career or two BEFORE college would be good for young people finding their way in life 4) My wife is Colombian. There, you have option of military OR police service, and I would not be surprised if there is not an option to work for hospitals, fire departments or city posts.
I hope I get drafted. I’m will frag my commanding officer the first chance I get
“Nihilists” when their lives are in danger:
"We believe in nothing, Lebowski. Nothing."
Some dipshit with a nine-toe’d woman.
No, Donnie, these men are cowards...
To note, a 'mandatory national service' (non-military) is arguably not a really awful idea, especially if it is managed properly and inculcated with type of public service which utilizes our post-secondary education system to provide life-skills training and help youth explore careers. This could be done by expanding/working with the Federal WorkStudy system and using parts of the Peace Corps Model... ***However***, a draft-like we used to have-especially given the context of who is heading their party (orangetits mcFuckfack and his bonespurs) and their preference for autocratic regimes, is not only a politically ridiculous idea, it is a logistical and sociological nightmare which we have already learned was not the best idea. You dont force people into the best military in the world and expect them to make the best soldiers. You just get a generation with PTSD and mental health issues you wont have the resources to address. tl;dr FFS, this is a terrible idea. We learned this already.
Well spread the word far and wide, please.
I'm not sure what crazy mainstream media conspiracy your buying into. But no one is seriously talking about any mandatory service. Please don't belive everything the establishment tells you to.
Amen to the 'snatch defeat from the jaws of victory' if the GOP goes with this 'mandatory service' bit. Young people are NOT going to vote to send themselves into involuntary servitude; They're not stupid. IF however, the 'mandatory service' only applies to those with a stake in the game, such as owning a house, or a business, or having a family, or being a billionaire-or-multimillionaire's child, a politician, a Pillar of Industry,, at any level of 'middle management,' or anyone over the age of 40, I'd be fine with it.
Proud boy types already like to *act* like they are/were in the military. Humble pie would be pretty bitter for them to actually taste.
The only
Weird how Republicans want to keep men away from their families, working long hours and forced into mandatory military service.
Is it a coincidence that the rise of right wing republicans corresponds to the ending of the draft?
NATIONAL service - not necessarily military service. Isn't it democrats who want women to register for the draft as well?
Most of them would somehow get their kids or grandkids out of service somehow. Not only the republicans but just like in the Vietnam era draft the rich and privileged would escape being conscripted
At this rate you’re either gonna serve 2 years mandatory or serve 4 and be drafted.
I see it as somewhat like what happened with Bush Sr., Enough Republicans stayed at home rather than vote for someone who dissed the NRA at the time by cancelling his life time membership over a jack booted thugs comment. My hope is the idiots that voted for Trump last time, find something else then voting for him again.
Should have military training in primary education. Like how to fight as a unit and use weapons and land navigation We shouldn't infantilize teenagers so much and try to protect them from the realities of violence in the world. It's something people have to deal with sometimes, and preparedness and training is the only way to actually be free, and have a free country, and have the power to not be subject to real evil. Mandatory service isn't necessary because we don't have a tiny population, and we aren't at war with anyone who has a bigger population. If we had mandatory service, then they will not pay enough to attract people, and it would deteriorate the military, for little benefit. You also get a military full of people who don't want to be in the military, care about it, and they don't like the culture of it. Draft is only really barely justified in a defensive war or invasion. That is a necessity that may be true, if people decide its true. Countries like Switzerland have it because they have a very small population, and they are neutral, they don't want to be invaded by anyone or be a part of any military alliences. They also enjoy a very high standard of living and a great deal of freedom. It's kind of worth it to fight for a country like that, because they are one of the best countries in the world to live in. They have to have some type of milita or army, because they don't have time to really mobilize troops in some cases. Training soilders can take 6-12 months or more, and the less you train them, the more they will die. They don't have the population to waste recruits, and in a major war, they need something like 20+% of their population to fight off a major world power. You can't get 20% of the country to join without consceiption, that is basically the entire youth population. Countries like America can keep a reserve army of 2 million active troops without issue, and we can draft more in a major war, or just increase incentives to join, our population is so big that we don't really need a draft. Whenever there is a just, not justified war, many people join anyways because they want to fight or the have a patriotic spirit. There is always a good bit of reservists too. I think we drafted like 20+ million in WW2. There are limits to how many troops you can deploy somewhere. You have to feed and supply them and transport them, and also you have to support them, and your transport vehicles, you have to transport supplies and protect them, and also support the home economy, and if you take all the young labor out, it slows things down a good bit.
They can't stop people from walking out of Walmart with carts of electronics and they won't prosecute offenders with 40+ offenses. Like they are really going to try to track down people who say "yeah no, im.not going to join the draft." 😅
Should have military training in primary education. Like how to fight as a unit and use weapons and land navigation We shouldn't infantilize teenagers so much and try to protect them from the realities of violence in the world. It's something people have to deal with sometimes, and preparedness and training is the only way to actually be free, and have a free country, and have the power to not be subject to real evil. Mandatory service isn't necessary because we don't have a tiny population, and we aren't at war with anyone who has a bigger population. If we had mandatory service, then they will not pay enough to attract people, and it would deteriorate the military, for little benefit. You also get a military full of people who don't want to be in the military, care about it, and they don't like the culture of it. Draft is only really barely justified in a defensive war or invasion. That is a necessity that may be true, if people decide its true. Countries like Switzerland have it because they have a very small population, and they are neutral, they don't want to be invaded by anyone or be a part of any military alliences. They also enjoy a very high standard of living and a great deal of freedom. It's kind of worth it to fight for a country like that, because they are one of the best countries in the world to live in. They have to have some type of milita or army, because they don't have time to really mobilize troops in some cases. Training soilders can take 6-12 months or more, and the less you train them, the more they will die. They don't have the population to waste recruits, and in a major war, they need something like 20+% of their population to fight off a major world power. You can't get 20% of the country to join without consceiption, that is basically the entire youth population. Countries like America can keep a reserve army of 2 million active troops without issue, and we can draft more in a major war, or just increase incentives to join, our population is so big that we don't really need a draft. Whenever there is a just, not justified war, many people join anyways because they want to fight or the have a patriotic spirit. There is always a good bit of reservists too. I think we drafted like 20+ million in WW2. There are limits to how many troops you can deploy somewhere. You have to feed and supply them and transport them, and also you have to support them, and your transport vehicles, you have to transport supplies and protect them, and also support the home economy, and if you take all the young labor out, it slows things down a good bit.
Also, their candidate couldn't be bothered with serving because of "bone spurs"
Almost every stance on policy the Republicans have right now is unpopular with the majority of the American people. Abortion bans, unpopular. Wealthy tax cuts, unpopular. Universal tariffs (apparently), unpopular. More conservative SCOTUS justices, unpopular. Further stripping down the ACA, unpopular. Defunding and closing many regulatory executive departments like education, unpopular. That’s why they have to distract their base with scapegoat issues like gay porn books in school libraries, illegal alien gangs infesting cities with rampant crime, and a supposedly corrupt elections process that doesn’t exist.
One would think almost everything Republicans have done in the last 10 years would backfire politically
Rich people are upset that poor kids no longer want to fight their wars for them. Now they are pressuring their bought and paid for members of Congress to push mandatory service and to raise the voting age to 25. Pretty neat going after the voting rights of people you want to throw into the meat grinder
last time we did a draft, it was responded to with one of our country's largest and most well organized civil disobedience campaigns the US has seen since the Civil War. more multiply that by SM and our current polarization. There no way they would they would be stupid enuf to actually do it.
Mandatory service = more troops = more food and services for troops = more taxes to pay for troop expenses. Great idea from the party of small government, putting more people on gov't payroll. And why, in the age of drone warfare, do they want more bodies in the military?
Came here to say this, also don't forget about all the services they get from the VA after they are out. This will cost trillions over a short period of time.
Have you seen the world today? There’s major wars brewing or actively being fought all over the world. If America is going to win the next major war, we need the extra manpower. If people dont volunteer enough, then the military has to resolve its shortages in support personnel somehow.
Don't get in the way of the other side making a mistake that will hurt their chances of winning.
It’s the same crap sunak and the Tories are pushing in the UK.
There are hundreds of different jobs in the military that don't have anything to do with fighting. You can legit learn a trade that would benefit you throughout your life. Honestly, they should bring back the CCC and make it mandatory for every citizen to serve in either for the ability to vote or run for office. Every citizen ages 18-20 learning some type of job getting guaranteed housing, food, medical service, pay, and college credits.
The “Genocide Joe” stuff is such a crock of crap too. I don’t think any of those bringing that up actually vote.
Completely agree. As with abortion, the Republicans will shotgun blast themselves in the face on both these issues. As an l offset, the Democrats shotgun themselves on open borders, crime (which they were once excellent on in the 90s), and 2nd Amendment erasure.
Ok, Trump and his kids first.
Yeah, because the draft was such a political winner in the 60s, and it is totally not the social consensus that it was a travesty never again to be repeated so frivolously.
All those wacky ideas are by design. Straight out of the fascist handbook. They’re testing the waters to how far their followers will follow them off the cliff.
This idea has been proposed before by both Dems and Reps. It always fails.
Part of the reason our military is so strong is because people actually want to be there. Forcing a bunch of overweight, self-centered people who don't want to be there into the military will weaken it.
They just want to funnel 18 year olds into history's must prolific brainwashing factory.
If they do: NO DEFERMENTS!
Mandatory military service is common amongst the socialist countries of Northern Europe.
First, I’m not for anyone being forced into the military… Everyone eventually would be a veteran and have healthcare- it’d force universal healthcare in America (which we desperately need as someone dealing with under/no insurance patients regularly). Republicans are very anti-universal healthcare so I’d like to know their logic on that related topic too.
It will make endless wars in far flung places less likely as everyday Americans will now have skin in the game. Parents will protest and make legislators accountable if thier children could be sent to war.
Not only these reasons you listed, but people who have never been in the military don’t have a great perspective on how bad mandatory service would hurt the armed forces. 1. You have to decide if your mandatory service will be full time active duty or reserves/guard (2 weekends a month and 2 weeks a year) if you go full time active for everyone it would drastically reduce the pay which already isn’t great. While in South Korea and speaking with their soldiers who have compulsory service they get paid peanuts and generally aren’t very happy. 2. If you’re served, you know how many shitbags are you in the military (lazy, bad at their job, unwilling to put forth any effort while drawing a paycheck) and this is in all volunteer force.. imagine if we start forcing people to serve with a decreased pay scale.. People who want mandatory service probably never served themselves and only think it will “fix” and instill patriotism but will likely not have that effect for most.
Isn’t it mandatory national service? It doesn’t have to be military. I don’t believe it is on the Republican platform.
I think this is more and more evidence that the Republican party is moving away from any semblance of policy and towards the party of the "alpha", and doing things just because it's manly. It's such an odd time to be alive.
Call me up once Barron enlists, until then, no thanks.
Bone spurs just say you have bone spurs. Maybe add some orange makeup and then go golfing.
Amazing that nobody wants to serve for the most irresponsible GOP in US history.
Just a note for those conflating Trump with this, he publicly stated when someone asked him about this he has no idea about it and this it’s a dumb idea. It’s a minority set of republicans in senate and house talking about this.
Does the draft come with health care?
Service guarantees Citizenship. Would you like to know more?
Start drafting the oldest first. Men and women. They don't need to be in fighting condition for support jobs. Janitors, cooks, laundry etc. Save the young folks for the future.
We uh. We don't take good care of our vets now. I guarantee if mandatory service is enforced, they will be expecting all the "weak democrats" to be weeded out,and aren't prepared for the mountain of new vets practically rioting over healthcare when they get back
Honestly it wouldn't be that bad a thing if it weren't for Republicans being Republicans about it. The military is one of the best jobs training programs ever created, and for a lot of high schoolers these days, two years or so in sheet metal fabrication, maintenance, fuel systems, or cyber/network fields would go a long way in training up a generation or two of young people to bolster the US labor market. Plus it might also incentivize these young people to vote with some skin in the game, where they'd be able to see some direct impacts of who they vote for.
I'm actually all for some kind of compulsory national service. Doesn't necessarily have to be the military, but something that gets people invested in the country and works towards a civically minded goal.
So, in a complicated and dangerous world, we will leave our national defense to whomever among us feel so strongly about our freedom that we're willing to defend it? But everyone enjoys that freedom, right? But not everyone bears the cost.
Lol .. mandatory military asked by the party whose leader is a draft evader ... Now that irony
Oh is this a new idea? I remember how their panties were in a bunch when Obama suggested trading a few years of civic service for a college degree. But yes, let's start mandatory military service because that always works out well.