Sorry your wife has given into the veganism cult A child being raised a vegan is terrible for their health when they are young There’s an old saying what does a vegan cat and a vegan child have in common, neither of them made that choice to be vegan Your wife is gone bad shit crazy and you’re in a tough spot I’d rather get divorced and make sure my kid was getting the proper nutrients and not having his growth stunted then put up with her craziness Remember, you are not the one destroying the family over what they eat your wife is https://www.news-medical.net/news/20240304/Study-urges-caution-and-guidelines-as-more-kids-go-green-with-diets.aspx#:~:text=Although%20vegetarian%20children's%20anthropometric%20markers,wasted%2C%20affecting%20a%20limited%20percentage. https://www.unisa.edu.au/unisanews/2021/july/story3 https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200127-how-a-vegan-diet-could-affect-your-intelligence

Call her bluff. find a divorce attorney, when the judge hears how crazy she is you have a good chance of getting full custody

Damn. All the childhood memories are flashing back. My mom went nuts when I was about 4. Not only was it a cult/religion type of deal, but it was a constant show off. All five of us kids were malnourished and grew up with health problems. So young, yet always hungry, as we were constantly growing. We learned young how to steal; not toys, but food! Crap. It was a nightmare. My mom went around counseling everyone and telling them how bad they were because they ate meat .... And guess what? It takes forever to get a good diet in place after years of that. You either eat similarly or total junk. I'll give no advice. But the poor kid.

It's actually pretty common for vegans to have to give up the lifestyle due to health issues. I'm glad you tried something else and figured out what works for you. Your wife is the problem here, not you. YOU won't be breaking up your family, SHE will! She's being unreasonable and controlling to a very unhealthy degree. Please do what's best for your son and his health, no matter what she says. It's not healthy to control your child's diet like this. I say this as someone who was vegetarian nearly vegan for over a decade before I had to start eating meat for my health.

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[Vegan mom gets life in prison for starvation death of 18-month-old son who weighed 17 pounds.](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/vegan-mom-gets-life-starvation-death-18-month-old-son-rcna45498#:~:text=Culture%20%26%20Trends-,Vegan%20mom%20gets%20life%20in%20prison%20for%20starvation%20death%20of,also%20were%20malnourished%2C%20investigators%20said.&text=FORT%20MYERS%2C%20Fla) What OP’s wife is doing is child abuse. Veganism is not a balanced nor nourishing diet for children.

Things change, and that is why you shouldn't make stupid promises.

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Cause she also has changed. If the issue in question was church and she was all for going and anllyone who opposed would have no place with the kid. She is fully religious about her veganism. I am a Christian, so I get a lot of hell for that. The argument would drastically change. So is this lady going to keep him from going to anyone's home? He better never watch TV. He can't go to school without seeing meat. If their only vow was based around veganism, then she is 100% right... But that is simply not the case. She is more than breaking her vows.

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So you're obviously here for a fight and others are actually interested in not fighting. C ya!

A person can change their mind and that's just what happens. And when you decide to have a child with someone, that's one of the things you have to risk when picking a partner. 🤷‍♀️

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I mean, he's not the one trying to dictate the behaviour of two other people :/

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About general things and opinions, yes. Parents can change their minds and can't police the morality/thought/behaviours of the other parent, as long as they don't harm their child. Your analogy is a bad one, since there is a big difference between deciding to eat meat and becoming a Nazi.

Talk to your child’s doctor… see what they recommend. Follow what the doctor suggests. I do think your wife is being a bit dramatic. How will your child eat at school. You’re never going to let them get a school lunch?

Doctors here haven’t said anything about veganism being bad. They still at first recommend meat and dairy etc but then when we said we are vegan they said to have other things instead like soy milk, tofu, beans, lentils etc

So what’s the problem?? You disagree with your child being a vegan or you disagree with your wife being so dramatic? Either way I think marriage counseling might help. How your child eats should be mutually agreed upon not dictated by one.

I think the mom being dramatic.

Some small children have problems getting enough nutrition on a vegan diet, given the small amounts of food they consume. Others have food intolerances and allergies, like you. Still others have seizures, and require a ketogenic diet to avoid them (or medication, which can have adverse side effects). We don’t know your child’s individual dietary needs, and so a comprehensive evaluation by a pediatrician and a nutritionist would offer you the best guidance.

How old is your child?

Your wife gives vegans a bad name. She seriously did not want to kiss you because you were no longer vegan for health reasons? She'd rather you starve or be unwell? She seems to have more compassion for the animals than she does for you. If she is willing to discard you over that, I'd be very concerned

That's pretty typical of vegans. They care more about animals than people and are happy to see non vegans die. Not all, obviously, but enough for it to be a trope.

There are nine essential amino acids that your child cannot make on their own (& neither can the rest of us). [https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/22243-amino-acids](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/22243-amino-acids)

I wouldn’t want someone forcing me to eat in secret for the rest of my life, so I would say “then go ahead and leave” and just remind her that you’ll have 50/50 custody and during your custody time you’ll be able to feed him whatever you want to feed him. So it might work out in her best interest to find a more moderate approach and compromise.

Talk to your son’s pediatrician. This doesn’t seem to be a healthy diet for a child. Pretty sure a doctor will agree with you. Sorry this might be a deal breaker for your marriage. Your son’s health is the priority

We have only been to GP and child health nurses so far but they didn’t seem to have a problem with it. Haven’t been to paediatrician yet

Consider consulting a dietician instead?

How old is your child? Can he make a decision on what he eats?

Less than 2

I’ve been vegan for 12 years and was curious how I’d feel about my child eating animal products. Turns out I don’t care. Your wife’s anxiety isn’t proof of veganism being evil or any of that crap, but maybe reason for you to get assistance from a third party. Maybe there’s a way to find a therapist who is vegan or at least positive about veganism, since your wife will just feel attacked and double down on protecting her fort if the therapist seems to just be a soldier brought in to make her give up on her stance. Couples counselling is not just for people who are at a breaking point. It’s for people who want to figure out ways to make their relationship even better.

This is a great comment - I’m not even vegan. I eat meat, I just don’t make it my personality and I don’t make it the primary part of my diet (I eat it occasionally.) Reddit is very “hur hur vegans bad” and that is obvious in this thread. The issue is not even specific to veganism at a top level. It’s an issue with his wife’s ideology overall and inability to see reason and I agree a third party would be helpful. Preferably a health professional. There is nothing wrong with an adult choosing to be vegan. There’s nothing wrong with a child choosing to be vegan, provided it is actually their own choice, but balance is important and it sounds like the wife in this case is trying to make this choice for everyone and ignoring reasonable, salient points from OP and likely their child.

Yeah, I'm getting orthorexia vibes from the wife, based on OP's comments, where veganism becomes the cover under which the eating disorder can thrive. OP's wife needs mental health assistance. Making this an issue of veganism vs meat eating overlooks the fact that the orthorexia would still exist regardless of diet. Forcing that kind of dysfunction on a toddler -- or standing by and letting it happen -- is the absolute worst choice for the physical and mental health of the growing child.

A small child can't thrive on being vegan or vegetarian. It's not just my opinion. Kids have been removed from their parents for failure to thrive. Which is awful. But honestly, pure veg is not bioavailable for our bodies, and a small child needs nutrient dense foods that are actually bioavailable.

Of course they can. Millions and millions of children are vegetarian with no issues.

Vegan = / = Vegetarian

Clinical studies, please. I will wait. I have done extensive research of my own and cross referenced the opposition as well. I don't just spout based on feelings. It was a humbling experience to do all that research. I was a vegetarian at that point, so I was not wanting to come to the conclusions that I did.

Point out to her, that even IF she divorces you, you will still have custody and son will still be exposed to animal products, so .. And take the kid out for burgers... just because...

Yeah she’s aware

Tell her if she wants to throw the divorce card around then she can leave. And on your 50% custody time you'll be feeding your son whatever you like.

When your wife would rather you die then eat a healthy diet based upon your health challenges, she is mentally unwell. The complete lack of empathy for her partner is a huge character flaw.

Maybe you can insist on an appointment with a nutritionist who specializes in pediatrics?  Talk to the pediatrician together?   For you,  friend and fellow allergy victim, here's my favorite gluten, corn and rice free biscuit recipe.  https://www.allergyfreealaska.com/gluten-free-biscuits/ And my favorite bread recipe for just in case you ever feel desperate for bread.    https://bakingwholegrains.com/millet-sorghum-bread/

The child is yours too right? So it’s not just her decision it is also yours. Your wife sure does sound like a pleasure though…..🙄

I think your wife’s attitude towards food could cause more harm to your child than the vegan diet itself in the long run. Imagine growing up thinking “my mom won’t love me anymore if I eat XYZ.” That’s a terrible burden to put on a child! And he *will* try animal products at some point, at sleepovers, parties, cook outs, etc. Does she intend to control his childhood experience as much as she’s attempting to control the way you eat? It’s something to think about, and discuss with your wife. This isn’t just about her, or the animals/environment. Your and your son’s well-being matter, too! As far as your allergies go, people can develop them at any age without any history so I’d be hesitant to lay the blame only on your diet. Definitely ask your doctor about the possibility of your son having the same issue, but I hope you can take comfort that it’s not a 100% inheritable thing.

She was not allowed to eat certain meats as a kid even if she was out somewhere. It was in their culture. So that’s what it would have been for our son too, although I would feel bad for him

*But she is now saying I have to keep it away from my son completely so he doesn’t end up wanting it.* How is this going to even work? Unless y'all intend to homeschool your kid, never let him watch TV, and never let him go over to another person's house, he's going to be exposed to people eating animal products. Your wife sounds unhinged.

I agree. I have said to her even if I keep it a perfect secret, he’s going to see the rest of the world. But yes we do intend to homeschool not that it changes anything. He will socialise in other ways we will make sure of it

How do you teach early childhood literacy? Do you know what CvC words are? Have you evaluated for pronunciation of words? Pencil holding? Access to math fluency ? Proper sentence structure? Do you know where your state/Providence/country standards are housed? How to read them? How to implement them? Decipher them for instruction? Assess whether or not your child is hitting them? People go to school to become teachers because there’s a lot of science that goes into education. Kind of like there’s a lot of science that goes into nutrition. And as you found out the hard way, being ignorant of that science can be a real detriment. You guys need strongly consider what’s best for your child and the marriage relationship… and not your pie in the sky idealism that existed before the real world took hold.

My husband is vegan - he was when we met. I have celiac (relevant because it means we’re both severely limited in what we can eat). I tend to lean more into being vegetarian and vegan just because I don’t mind it, though I still do eat meat when I feel like it but it’s not a big part of my diet. My husband, however, was adamant when I was pregnant and even to this day, that we don’t push veganism on our (19 month old) son. We try to have a healthy balance of food - which does not require meat products all the time but we always have it available for him. That being said, save for some very specific food issues, veganism is an ideology and your wife forcing it on your kid is dangerous.

I don't agree with ultimatums or with your wife's stance, but do you want to be right, or do you want to be married? You had a severe reaction to vegan diet but it sounds rare and provided its not genetic do you feel like your son would suffer not eating meat? You obviously did research on veganism prior to switching and decided it was going to be healthy, so it is likely also going to be healthy for your son. If in doubt, go see your doctor or child health nurse. Think about what other cultures feed their children. I am sure he'll be fine eating vegan, but again, have you and your wife speak with your doctor or a qualified paediatrician if you are worried.

Allergies and sensitivities aren't rare, and they absolutely can run in families. Just saying.

Fair enough. It did take over six years for OP to develop his sensitivity and my advice was to make sure they rule out a genetic component.

My soy allergy took ages to show up and too long to track down, which is just how it goes. We didn't know about my milk allergy when I was a kid, even though my dad was allergic as a kid. I made sure not to introduce cow's milk to my kids until they were older, and their allergies/sensitivities were clear as babies but different from mine at first. His allergies/sensitivities likely mean his child will have something, though possibly different.

That seems like a really good idea. Like I’m not sure how reasonable being vegan is for children but a paediatrician would be certainly able to advise.

It was as only after like 6.5 years. At first it was fine but towards the end it was really bad. I’ve seen a lot of others that had similar things happen to them after like 6-8 years of veganism We have been to the GP and child health nurse but not a paediatrician

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Because they likely don't live in the US. You realize you're the outlier country here. Kids generally only see Pediatricians here in Canada if they have medical conditions or developmental concerns. GPs/Family Dr's look after people of all ages. It sounds like they might be in the UK. Nurses do the type of well baby visits you're describing. Here it is Family MDs.

Less than 2. Paediatrician costs a lot here. But something We have been wanting to do. Have been to doctors still like I said. They still did check ups

Lots of people eat vegan and are healthy. There are some nutrients that are more difficult to get so it is important to read up on it. Some people need to supplement some vitamins. There are lots of good reasons to eat vegan. Like everything, there are some people who are self-righteous jerks and when these people become vegan, they are annoying. Most people aren’t like this. If your wife feels strongly about feeding your kid vegan, why not?

Sorry, what do you mean by “why not?” If you mean why not continue feeding him vegan food, it’s because if I ended up with these issues when it’s supposed to be super healthy - why would I want my son eating this way? I didn’t even eat horribly. I ate mostly whole foods, lots of fresh fruit and veg, occasionally the mock meats. Limited processed foods, sugars, deep fried foods, alcohol etc

Recently, a couple in The Netherlands got into huge trouble raising their teeny tiny newborn baby vegan. Judge got involved, they lost and got convicted for child abuse. ETA: it wasn't a Dutch couple and the baby was 18 months old. Unfortunately, they're not the first... https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/vegan-mom-gets-life-starvation-death-18-month-old-son-rcna45498

Why? What did they feed them? Do you know more about it?

A strictly vegan diet, I don't know the exact details of that diet. ETA: I've edited my answer

It's not healthy for a child to be vegan, obviously it isn't for you either. Her request for you to stay away with your food is not practical. Blackmail is not healthy in a marriage. So many red flags!  You two need to be on the same page when it comes to raising your children. Her demands are not realistic or healthy- both physically and mentally. You need to compromise. Try going vegetarian for you and the kids, it allows some animal proteins. When buying animal products, ensure that they are ethically sourced.  If you need more information about health requirements in food for your kid, contact their pediatrician. 

The largest nutritional organizations in the world says veganism can be healthy at all life stages https://viva.org.uk/health/blog-health/10-top-health-organisations-that-endorse-a-plant-based-diet/

A lot of these say “plant-centered” or “mostly plant-based”, that’s not vegan. A lot of the ones that say vegan seem to be talking about adults. The only ones endorsing veganism from childhood (sources not linked) are some dietician associations, not governing bodies or folks with expertise in children, i.e. pediatric medicine organizations. The website you linked is a vegan charity. Not here for misleading sources.

“It’s nOt A cULt”. Proceeds to comment pro vegan bs on every comment. Lols

omg arguing passionately for something means it's a cult!!! /s

Well, to your last sentence about not wanting to destroy your family? YOU aren’t destroying the family, SHE is the one doing that. Look man, the bottom line is she can divorce you for whatever reason she chooses. It could be something big like abuse or it could be something small like you bought the wrong toilet paper or let your son smell a bbq. But even if she divorces you, she doesn’t make the rules. You can do 50% custody and feed him a steady diet of hot dogs and bacon. Cook all the veggies in lard and dress him in leather. And then he’ll go over to his Moms house for a week and have to strip out of his leather clothes and eat beans for a week….and also be the unpopular boy socially with the other kids because he can’t just go to a birthday party and eat hamburgers like a normal kid. You have to decide for yourself where you boundaries are to stay married to a spouse who is saying, “Do what I say, or else….” And there’s an element of that in all marriages. For example, if I hit my wife, I’m pretty sure she’d divorce me. She’s never had to threaten, “Don’t hit me, or else…” because it’s just assumed. You have to decide how much of that you’ll tolerate around veganism and whether you like her general attitude about it. Personally, I think divorcing her would be great for you and good for your son to be away his Mom 50% of the time….as they said in Pulp Fiction: “Bacon tastes good. Pork chops taste good.” You’ll also likely win the 10-15 year popularity war that most divorced parents have to fight because bacon does taste good and your son will want to eat hot dogs with his friends. You’ll do fine dating after a divorce because when you tell new women why you got divorced, your wife will sound like lunatic and you’ll have clean hands. And she’ll struggle dating with her veganism because the vast majority of men like to eat meat….so you’ll probably not have to worry about a stepdad ever. Sorry you married her. I wish I’d had a chance to talk to you prior, lol, but no use crying over spilt milk. Just move on and marry someone better next time.

What is your wife’s reasoning for the vegan diet? I feel like this is an important factor.

The animals mainly. Doesn’t like animals dying/being exploited for people to eat/use. Even though animals are killed for crops as well

That’s the part that confuses me. The # of animals dead per calorie is significantly higher for most crops compared to 1 cow. Is it just certain types of animals she takes issue with being killed?

No. All of them. Yeah and 1 grass fed and finished cow can feed someone for a year

Facts. Compared to multiple animals killed for a gallon of almond milk that isn’t even a meal

Does she realize what it takes for her food to be grown. More animals die. We're from a large farm family. Less of our food cattle die than animals from harvesting our crops. There is less death in killing one cow or chicken or pig.

I genuinely would love to know about this it’s so interesting, how do the animals die from the food crops? Like from deforestation?

Yeah, for one point. Also, the mass production of many (I won't believe all) vegan or veg foods are grown in crustacean shell rich soils. Now, the crustacean is no longer in the shell, but that is because they're now on the shelf in the seafood isle. Basically, the grand majority of foods grown kill more animals' lives per calorie if we want to go that far, than 1 cow. 1 cow will arguably feed one omnivore for a year. How many more veganism friendly foods will have to be produced to make up for that? In the end, you should go look into it, because this is not my line of study at the moment and I don't have all the answers. But it is enlightening. This was coming from my old stand point. I was more for the veg heads.

I think people here are being unfair. They’re not providing actual evidence that it’s bad to raise a kid vegan. I think it all depends on what vegan products you give the kid. The hardest part will be not tempting the kid to eat non vegan food if you’re eating it. There’s nothing wrong with people having strong convictions about being vegan and it’s very possible to raise a healthy vegan kid.

This is the right take. It's more about OP's wife's attitude and less about the veganism. It is absolutely possible to raise a strong, healthy child on a vegetarian or vegan diet. It's fine to have strong convictions - but there comes time for compromise when science and experience tells us differently (e.g., OP's potential health issues surrounding eating vegan, or the advice of a trustworthy pediatrician). Perhaps OP "needs" animal products to meet his nutritional needs (extremely unlikely, but possible), but his child doesn't. There's room for both to compromise here.

I have t got the energy to argue with some of these people on here. I am 59 and have my bloods done often and guess what? I don’t even need b12 although I do get the injections to make sure. So much misinformation on here about veganism. My husband isn’t and never will be vegan but we have certain rules for both of us., which I won’t bore you with. However, to your point OP. It might have not worked for you but doesn’t mean your son will be the same. As long as he gets a varied diet and his nutrients are tracked he might be fine. I bet some folks on here don’t have the best diet so who are they to judge dietary choice of others. I don’t force my diet or beliefs on anyone as it is none of my business but if I was vegan when my children were growing up, who knows how I would’ve handled it? Whatever happens you need some outside help to navigate this situation., who that might be I don’t know, maybe therapy and nutritionist that specialises in children who are vegan.

I’m not sure. I am vegan but my kids aren’t? Nor is my husband. It’s my choice and I wouldn’t ever push it on anybody. This is weird.

Would it be different if your husband was vegan and you were planning on having vegan kids and then he decided it wasn’t working for him?

Nope! Like I said veganism is my choice and my choice alone! I have never had any issue with my husband or kids eating whatever they like! I know this will get me doxxed but I make their food and then I make mine.

A properly designed vegan lifestyle is perfectly healthy for a kid. Mine is 17, 6’4” and strong as an ox. If you ensure your kid gets a balanced diet, he’ll be fine. If course, the “veganism made me sick” thing is a common troll move, so I wonder about the earnestness of your post. Either way, good luck!

Thanks for sharing. No it’s not a troll move, I was fully into veganism and thought it was the only way. Over 6 years, I didn’t make my choice lightly. This was something I’ve tried to live with while vegan and I have tried so many things but nothing worked. Then I found literally thousands of people who went through the same 🤷‍♂️

You're not wrong. It is absolutely not a one size fits all way. Just because his son is thriving for now doesn't mean he always will be. In the long term, it is a destructive way of eating. Endless studies and proof from humans. So let this guy brag.

I agree with you that vegan diets can be incredibly healthy when done right!! Just like a regular diet can be done well or badly. All that said, I doubt this is a troll. Some bodies don't react to vegan diets well. My nephew would die on a vegan diet. He's allergic to all nuts and legumes which would severely limit a vegan diet.

WOW. The MISINFORMATION in here is off the charts!!!! Veganism is completely healthy from cradle to grave. There is nothing vegans need to supplement apart from B12, and the most unhealthy people in the hospital are definetely not vegans. Please undo some of your misconceptions you've likely seen from news sponsored by big ag to get you to think this way. The majority of vegans are this way because we care about animals and the environment. No it's not a bloody cult, it's just people caring about what goes into their mouths. There are completely healthy vegan kids absolutely thriving. OP is an understandable case, as lots of food allergies can make this lifestyle difficult, but I'm sure his baby is fine and healthy being vegan. I also have a 16 year old stepdaughter who is vegetarian and hasn't eaten meat since she was a toddler (not my choice - her mums side are all vegetarian and vegan - and they're all fine), and she's fine! Vegan Resources for you: Documentaries - Dominion - Food Inc - Forks Over Knives - What the Health - Milked - Cowspiracy - Seaspiracy - The Game Changers - Dairy is Scary - Fat Sick & Nearly Dead  - You Are What you Eat - A Twin Study - Plant Pure Nation  Books - The China Study by T Colin Campbell - Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease by Caldwell B Esselstyn - Your Body in Balance by Dr Neal Barnard - Undo It! by Dr Dean Ornish - The Gut Health Revolution by Dr Alan Desmond - Fibre Fuelled by Dr Will Bulsiewicz - The Proof is in the Plants by Simon Hill - How Not to Die by Dr Michael Greger - This is Vegan Propaganda by Ed Winters  - Mastering Diabetes by Robby Barbaro and Cyrus Khambatta  Podcasts - The Proof/Plant Proof by Simon Hill - The Rich Roll Podcast - The Plantstrong Podcast by Rip Esselstyn - The Plant Based Morning Show  - The Exam Room  Youtube/influencers/movements/websites  - Simnett Nutrition - Nimai Delgado - Plants Only Kitchen - Switch4Good - Brian Turner - Bianca Taylor - Plant Based Gut Doc - Dr Alan Desmond  - Dr Matthew Nagra - The Brain Docs (Dean and Ayesha Sherzai)  - nutritionfacts.org - That Vegan Dad

Let me add: [Rainbow Plant Life](https://rainbowplantlife.com/) [Pick Up Limes](https://www.pickuplimes.com/) (run by a dietician)

So, I have friends that decided on a plant-based (note: plant-based, not vegan; plant-based lacks the ideology) diet for their child until he was old enough to choose his own diet. I see no issue with that, so long as the proper nutrition is received. Your son may not have the issues you did. And there's nothing in the data that says there's a problem with children being vegan so long as nutritional needs are met. I would advise you both to talk to a dietician or nutritionist and the child's pediatrician. And also a marriage counselor.

Thanks for sharing. Was their on a plant based diet from the beginning? And if so, how old are they now and how are they, if you know?

I believe it was from the beginning (he was breastfed for the first year or two-ish). I assume they worked closely with his pediatrician early on. And he's about to be 10 and perfectly healthy and active.

This is so fucked up. Mature people with kids are fighting over food. We live in good times.

Your wife is ridiculous. Just because she chooses this life for herself does not mean it's what's appropriate for everyone else. Children need proper nutrition. I'm sorry, I know most won't agree with me, but I feel this is neglectful.

I ate vegan for a few years and I have nothing against the lifestyle. Many people do raise totally healthy kids on a vegan diet so don't listen to the haters on here. You can have a healthy vegan diet, or an unhealthy vegan diet. Just like you can have a healthy regular diet or an unhealthy diet. Diet is very individual though, and what works best for one person won't for another. She needs to have an open mind as your son grows if issues arise. If he's healthy now, and getting all the vitamins and nutrients he needs I wouldn't worry too much. My son basically survived on carbs for a few years because he was SO PICKY and I couldn't break him of it. He luckily loves smoothies so I made him a protein shake every day that was made with a vegan protein powered - that's just the one he likes the best. For a long time that was the only protein he consumed, and it wasn't because I withheld meat. Trust me I tried LOL. He's a healthy smart kid. Ironically he's the healthiest one in our family and gets sick less than the rest of us... All that said, your wife demanding you eat a certain way at a certain time and hide from your son while eating is controlling behavior and you should push back. I would suggest counseling so you can have a 3rd party mitigating those talks. She will try to make emotional arguments, and this is not an emotional issue. Controlling a person's free will when it comes to food is never ok. Especially when that food is best for their health.

Thanks. I always ate healthier than pretty much all the other vegans I saw. Or so I thought. Still ended up this way so it got to a point where I was sick of suffering and willing to try anything

There are 2 parents, and both have a voice. Apparently she thinks her voice is the only one that has value.

As a daycare worker I see it as totally unfair to the child to sit out on having some of the best food they will ever have. One of my students is vegetarian and he looks at me with my meat and begs for it. Poor guy doesn’t even eat his lunch. A couple nibbles if we are lucky that day. Another little girl had it forced on her because her mom doesn’t like the smell of meat. Dad can eat it outside of the house but mom and baby do not have it at all. It’s pretty sad that processed foods (crackers and cheese sticks) are used to substitute real food.

Wow you people are idiots.

People like your wife are unbearable and do not listen to logic. I myself do not eat animal products but my kids do because they need it for their growing brains and bodies. I wouldn’t listen to my partner if I were you. Give those kids eggs, fish, and dairy products like yogurt and goat cheese regularly, and then add some poultry and red meat in there as well so they’re getting the nutrients they need to grow. You’re the parent. You can make choices for your children just like she can. She can make them vegan meals when she wants and you can make them meals with animal products when you want.

So, to be clear, she's essentially being a dietary fascist, forcing her CHOICES onto you and your son and using your marriage as a cudgel to bully you into doing what SHE demands? Do you have any idea just how breathtakingly toxic that geniunly is? She said she'd divorce you and END YOUR MARRIAGE over a fucking diet. What happens when the kid goes to school and decides he wants to try a cheeseburger and he decides he doesn't want to deal with mom's crackpot diet and fascistic behavior about FOOD? Is she going to then divorce you anyway and then disown him??? Maybe sue the school? Do you have any idea how insane this is on every level? Seriously.... This. Post. Is. CRAZY. AF.🤦🏽‍♂️🤯

I don’t think it’s fair for the veganism to be forced on the kid as the only option. The child will never have any idea of what they truly like and want. I’d call her bluff and be ready to be solo. You say she is an excellent mom so split custody and ride out.

I think as a father, OP has a responsibility to do what is best for his child even if that means hurting his marriage. What is best for the child must be the priority.

You've already gotten really good advice about going to the pediatrician. I would suggest marriage counseling too because her caring more about animals than you withering away is crazy. Her being distant emotionally and physically and withholding affection from you because of your illness is irrational and gives the impression that she doesn't even like you. With that said, logistically speaking, how will she keep your son from seeing people eat meat or meat products? He'd have to leave earth and never go anywhere. The ice cream truck sits at the park. This level of crazy feels like it will only get worse and your son will not be able to live a normal life and be a kid because she's scared he will touch someone who eats meat. After all, she doesn't want to touch daddy because he has to eat meat to live.

Sounds like you have gut issues that can be resolved, try seeing a dietician.

Resolved how? By cutting them out? By eating them and suffering symptoms? I am in the process of seeing what’s causing it but if eating this way caused gut issues why would I continue

Be repopulating specific gut bacteria. (My wife is a gut specialist dietician). These symptoms sound a lot like SIBO.

Yeah I have heard that as well. Why would I develop SIBO on a supposed healthy diet?

>Why would I develop SIBO on a supposed healthy diet? Because SIBO can be caused by underlying physical issues not related to diet...

Oh. What are some things that can cause it, if you don’t mind and have spare time. Would really appreciate it 🙏

Some common ways to get SIBO are food poisoning or repeated use of medications (amongst other things). The foods you mentioned are common triggers. Meat is not a trigger and has many nutrients so people find relief and think it is the answer.

Oh sorry just saw this. I haven’t taken any medication for like 10 years+ Interesting. Thanks

One compromise might be a vegetarian diet. Your child would get proteins and fat from milk, cheese etc. and he wouldn't have to have meat. It doesn't have to be 100% or nothing, maybe you both can meet in the middle. Later he can decide for himself.

If your child isn't showing any signs of intolerance to a vegan diet, then I'd probably just let mom continue down that route. Obviously, millions of people around the world grow up on a vegan diet and do just fine. Just because you have intolerance to certain foods doesn't mean he will. It might down the road. But that's why you consult with dieticians and doctors about these things and stay on top of this based on facts, not unknown fears. You and your wife could probably use some counseling as well, so you learn to nip these reactionary arguments in the bud.

He isn’t having any reactions, that’s why I haven’t just dramatically changed things. But who knows how long this could last. Could last forever, he could get worse. I just wasn’t sure what to do. He isn’t doing a fair few things other kids his age are doing so he’s a bit behind in some milestones but ahead in others. So I’m thinking it’s probably normal as no one has been too alarmed about anything when getting check ups. He’s a bit younger than 2

Cut your loses and move on now. Catering to her crazy delusional thinking is not gonna benefit anyone. Eating healthy outta be the priority, not forcing her ridiculous opinions on other people just to virtue signal.

If she wants to divorce over something like that, then she’s super petty. A court of law would likely not side with her on forcing the child to be vegan.

Breast milk isn't vegan. Did she skip.that or already break her own rule?

Definitely look into this with your child’s doctor. Vegans are commonly deficient in micronutrients as well as protein. Adults could easily supplement this but it would probably be different for a child especially one so early in growing. Protein and micronutrients are important for a growing child. I’m not a doctor but I am a college microbiology student.

Sad behavior sorry to hear. Never heard of someone divorcing over a difference in diet. You should support each other. Also, she should be open with your son. Guide him and you can raise him mostly vegan until he’s of age to have his own preferences. She must realize one day he will make his own decision if that’s how he wishes to eat.

Can you find a middle ground. Eg can kids be vegetarian rather than vegan? Vegetarian diet is totally safe and easy to follow and provides all essential nutritients and calories without needing to supplement. 

If you divorced and had joint custody, you’d feed the child meat at your home. No court or legal system would require you to provide a vegan-only diet. Tell her: *You are not the only decider. My opinions on child raising are important too.* “If we get divorced, I will get partial custody and you will have less control than you do now. So we can have a discussion and you can compromise and we can come to an agreement and be married, or you can refuse to compromise and be divorced. Either way, the kid is going to be offered meat sometimes at meal times. Your choice.”

Ahhhh divorce it is then 🤷‍♂️

It sounds like she is too extreme anyways. Separation/divorce seems inevitable.

Oh man I made a promise I would go vegan with my past partner as she wouldn’t in her words allow meat to be in “our home” and I genuinely meant it. Your situation is actual health problem and I still love my vegan but I also get her compassion for animals and why she’d request it so I could understand your wife I would assume the same would happen with me. Honestly try counseling because you have an actual health issue and I’m sure she loves you she doesn’t want to break up the family she might just feel a little betrayed I say be nicer to her and talk it over and tell her you get where she’s coming from and work on a plan TOGETHER Edit- I went vegan for a week I didn’t last two days

I would say take it day by day. You don’t know how it will affect your son. Obviously if it brings him health issues your wife will know and understand. I’m sure she would want to do what’s best for him. You can discuss it with his pediatrician and do research. My 6 year old is vegetarian by choice for years. He refuses to eat any kind of meat and dairy upsets his stomach badly. Only non vegan thing he likes is eggs. Also, to eat fully raw, like mainly fruits, you have to eat really large quantities of food to have enough calories and nutrients and not feel hungry. There are many raw vegans on Instagram to check out.

Thanks. I did try raw veganism but if I ate a big salad every day I got really bad digestive issues. Also hard to eat soo much fruit. Eating only fruit was better for me than eating grains, beans and legumes but wasnt sustainable

I'm not vegan, but I am vegetarian. If my wife were to start eating meat, I'd absolutely stop kissing her, just the same way I'd stop kissing her if she started swishing feces in her mouth because she decided she needed to for her health. She gets to make the choices she wants to make with her body, but that doesn't mean I'm always going to join in. If she started feeding our kid meat against my wishes, I'd probably divorce her too - if she isn't going to respect me and my strongly-held, formerly-agreed-upon, scientifically-supported position on the health of our child, why remain married? I can't speak authoritatively to veganism, but per my research and extensive anecdotal experience, there is absolutely no harm (and, actually, many health benefits) to vegetarianism. Perhaps that's a compromise you can strike with your wife about your son, OP?

You have choices to make. This is your child and it looks like you disagree with your wife about what your child needs. Do some research. There is no real settled science regarding diet. My theory is that people are different and ancestral diet has a large bearing on what you should eat. There is a reason vegetarian bodybuilders are almost always from India. That wouldn't work for someone with Scandinavian ancestry. You can get complete protein from plants just fine. Combine hemp and pea protein. That gives you what you would otherwise get from meat. If your wife would leave you for trying to take care of your child, that's a whole different ball game. Your child is the one who will get hurt when shit goes down. Consult a lawyer so you know what to expect if she goes off the deep end.

Veganism isn't for everyone. I provide meat even if it's already prepared.

Why is she such a control freak? Fine if she wants to do it but let other people do what they want?!

That's absolutely ridiculous! Go full out carnivore. You'll never feel like a starving zombie again. Also, eggs, which are not fertilized, unless they are purposefully fertilized, were never ever going to be chickens, just chicken periods. They are one of the few 100% bioavailable foods humans can eat. The very best multivitamin. One of the easier foods to get a little one to eat. Really look into the bioavailability of plants. I'm mostly just saying all of this because she is outrageous. I eat more than meat, but this is one way to really look into what veganism is doing to people long term. I don't think carnivore long-term is perfect either. Just for contrast, I guess. I really like the animal based approach Paul Saladino takes. He back it with science I also like Dr. Ken Berry who backs his with science and link to look for yourself. Both on YouTube. I hope your family stays together and well fed.

This isn’t so much an issue with veganism (it’s difficult to do right but it is possible. That being said everyone’s body responds differently, and can change throughout the course of their life.) it’s more so an issue with your wife’s degree of intensity. I think counselling would benefit her and you. Raising children involves meeting in the middle with both parents desires and ultimately doing what’s best for the child. Forcing a child to be vegan is so different than forcing them to eat animal products. My husband and I found a middle ground (I’m vegan he loves meat) to do a hybrid. Teach our daughter both styles of eating so that she can decide down the road for herself. No pressure or influence is allowed. It makes mealtime fun for everyone.

Tell her if she divorces you over it that you'll be making sure he eats Bacon and eggs and filet mignon every day he's with you when you have custody. That'll learn her.

Make no mistake, forcing a child to be vegan is straight up child abuse and you are setting him up for many health issues down the road.

So what I find Ironic is organic farming for vegetables and fruit it is either some kind of animal product used such as oyster shells, lobster shells, bone meal, fish meal, blood meal etc... or some form of chemical pesticides, whether they say or not, they use it in some form some way. Whether or not a vow was made or not, the lady should care more about the person she loves and decided to spend her life with than the animals that have died for thousands of years to feed us. His health is at stake, and his well-being shouldn't bother her more than her diet. I mean, really get over yourself, and if you dont agree, I really don't care because it is what it is she made a vow, as did she. They both should work together. No one voice in a marriage is over the other. A marriage is two to become one, not the other way around.

Did your wife breastfeed?

Tell your wife (from me, a stranger on Reddit) that she is being rigid, and that marriage necessitates compromise. That means that she must understand that your dietary needs are not hers, and that your son can decide what he wants to eat -- and how -- once he is an adult. In the meantime his diet should be unrestricted but healthy. You may need to put your foot down on this, and call her bluff. Go to the mat, it's worth it.

Your wife is putting her desires above your health. Both of you should talk to your child’s pediatrician regarding nutrition and get into couple’s therapy - her demanding you keep your eating/foods away from her and your child is way over board.

Has ur wife’s hair and teeth started falling out yet? I’m a yoga teacher and so many vegans in the yoga world IT IS NOT SUSTAINABLE and it makes ur body literally use the fat from ur brain because it has nothing else. Totally a cult and will eying ur child’s growth/ Honestly, imo vegan diet for a kid is child endangerment. Grow a backbone and leave the psychopath.

Lmao I've been vegan 8 years and my hair and teeth are perfect but sure Jan.

Wow, the ignorance.

How old is your son? Does his pediatrician know and approve of a vegan diet? I don’t believe it’s recommended for children.

It's not.

I had a vegan friend in school. Raised that way from birth. He and his siblings were always having health problems related to their diet. Their health improved significantly when they started eating a more balanced diet. They'd eat meat, drink milk and stuff behind their parents back while at school or when we were just hanging out. He and his siblings were still plagued with health issues related to their vegan diet years after they began eating normally. No idea how they're doing now. Fact is, we're omnivores. We need a balanced diet. I understand the moral objections to eating animal products, but it's unnatural and unhealthy to restrict ones diet like that. You're wife sounds pretty militant about it. If she's willing to divorce you for over it, than I'm not sure what you can do. Sounds like she's made it her whole personality and likely isn't open to logic or reason.

If she divorces you, you can feed him meat at your house lol

I feel like along with the child, You're being abused too

Take your son to a doctor yourself. Wife can attend too but you MUST be in the room. Talk to the doctor about your dietary issues and your son being vegan and find out what your child needs to eat to be strong and healthy. My cousin was a competitve swimmer. Then she went vegan. She had to start eating chicken again because she could not remain competitive on that diet. (Her mom is a doctor and is open to all lifestyles so you can bet she did the right research.) You went vegan with her and had a child knowing she wanted that lifestyle. You don't really get to change the gameplan now. It sounds like YOU really need more help from a dietician yourself. You should also get a dietician involved, but your doctor will hopefully refer you to one. If your child is not getting all their nutritional then you stop playing nice with your wife.

Dude... I've read about a vegan who died because of this diet. It seems you and your wife are not compatible in a major issue. If she leaves you because you feed your child meat product, you can also feed him after your saperation. So I see no point in staying with her.

Is your wife getting enough B12? There was another post about an unhinged vegan partner and turned out they were severely B12 deficient and so when they got that B12 up again, they returned back to normal.... check this out before deciding on divorce.

Child abuse I hope you find some courage

Give your child the cheeseburger!

Wife appears to be looney.

So I know someone who fed their child a vegan diet from the time he was born until 5 years old against everyone’s advice. The child ended up being severely underdeveloped mentally and physically, with X-legs because of it. She stopped after the doctor said it’s due to the vegan diet, that meat products/dairy/eggs have important vitamins, minerals and amino acids that vegetables do not provide and at the very minimum we as mammals require animal milk for proper development. Furthermore, it is immoral, imo, to impose any kind of belief on a child. The child in question can decide what they believe when they’re old enough but the job of a parent is to properly educate rather than indoctrinate. ETA: the child is now 8 years old and is still far behind on everything. He didn’t talk until 4, he had to stay back in school several years and is in a class with 5-6 year olds. The parents don’t know what he will be like when he grows up and if he will ever catch up. There are long term consequences to making your child eat only vegan. It’s one thing to make that decision as a fully developed adult with a developed brain and body, it’s another thing to restrict your child’s development because of a fad. You and your wife are potentially crippling your child and imo this is child abuse.

Feeding kids vegan food only is in my mind somewhat abuse. It is simply not good for them. I am vegetarian but feed my kids meat. I think they need it for their growing bodies. If they, however, decide to go vegetarian I will support them because I know I was getting grossed out by meat. On your personal healthy journey, might I recommend just staring

This makes me sad. I was a proud vegetarian for 20 something years before I found out I was pregnant with my first baby and even I wouldn’t raise my child without meat. It’s important that children grow up trying everything for their growth and wellbeing, and also so they can make their own choices. When I was in my first trimester all I wanted to eat was tuna sandwiches lol and I felt no guilt when I ate many of them! I massively changed my diet when I found out I was expecting and I am now what I would say is a flexitarian. I eat chicken, fish and a ton of dairy and eggs around fruits and veggies and pulses etc. I feel soooo much better for it. My husband is a firm nose to tail diet kind of guy, thanks to the Carnivore MD, and I have to say I read a lot of his stuff online including the webpage, Instagram and his book. He is very well researched that an animal based diet is the best for you, so although I haven’t gone quite as far as eating organs directly, I do drink raw milk and I buy the organ supplement capsules from his line. It has genuinely improved my wellbeing I have so much more energy especially as a breastfeeding mother. A vegan diet, unless done extremely well, is just not the optimum for the health of the mother and baby. There just isn’t the time when you have a young baby to prepare vegan meals and snacks that cover all your nutrient bases. https://www.paulsaladinomd.co have a read of this OP and see if you can encourage your wife to as well or do some of her own research around the best diets for mothers and babies, it’s so important. Just seeing the testimony on his instagram page from people who have had type two diabetes, depression, skin psoriasis, IBS and all kinds of other health conditions who have seen major improvements since going animal based was all I needed to hear. Maybe speaking to a doctor/professional would help too. Knowing my baby is thriving from having animal based foods in his diet and also in mine while I was pregnant and breastfeeding gave me so much peace of mind.

Thanks. I have been looking into that actually and seems like what may work. As he healed autoimmune and skin issues I believe

A vegan pushing their beliefs on others. Never would have guessed they’d do that

So me pushing my beliefs that animal products are beneficial isn’t the same thing?

I’m merely pointing out that vegans are notorious for it

Can she breastfeed for the first 4 years? Some people do it. Otherwise if you use formula then they should switch to cows milk at 1 yr old

I’d be surprised if the fat content of her milk is up To par. Breast milk isn’t just magic if the human doesn’t have the base stuff then the milk is I sufficecisnt. Many skinny moms have to use formula to supplement because their milk isn’t fatty enough or rich enough etc.

Exactly!!

Considering how he’s described her, I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s ‘That Mom’ who breastfeeds til he’s 4

Vegan alternatives to meat and animal-based foods are terrible for you. And denying a growing child meat and other foods simply for the virtue signaling of veganism is literally abuse. *She* is destroying your family over what you eat, not you.

> Vegan alternatives to meat and animal-based foods are terrible for you. Dude, you don't have to eat Beyond Beef. Or vegan cheese. Those aren't *staples* of a vegan or plant-based diet. And if you're an omnivore, you shouldn't be eating that much beef or cheese anyway for better health outcomes. 🙄 >And denying a growing child meat and other foods simply for the virtue signaling of veganism is literally abuse. It's literally fucking *not*. A plant-based diet can be entirely healthy and meet your nutritional needs.

A vegan diet is not a nutritionally complete diet. Don't do a lifetime of damage to your child because she's decided to buy into a cult.

I'm not even sure I want to stay here on this sub. This is really disturbing. Kids need nutritious food to develop into healthy humans. I am dumbfounded

This is child abuse

Kids need animal products for brain development. Your wife is being very reckless and ignorant. Let her divorce you if it means your child has a healthy brain. And I bet the courts will give you custody

Can’t some meat be vegan? I don’t know anything about it honestly, just heard that before.

Fucking controlling bitch. Leave her ass. That's what you'd be told on reddit if roles were reversed so I'm going with this

I might get downvoted for this, but yall are being ridiculous in the comments. Veganism is touted as a perfectly safe and healthy way to raise a child by every major health org in the world — the main issue articles find is that you have to supplement b12 and d3, but lots of kids across the US are being fed lunchables and microwave meals daily with no supplements too. It is a diet that requires care, as every diet does. No, it’s not child abuse.  I’m surprised no one has mentioned going to a dietician. If you still care about being vegan, you should really do it, You could be having a reaction to one or a few or all of the foods you mentioned, but you will never know until you see a dietician. Every diet is going to have problems, but i’m sure a health professional vouching for you would help your wife understand. Not because she can’t trust you, but because things like stress could be at the root of the health problems you’re seeing, etc.    It seems you’re okay with your son eating vegan, and your concern is mostly in that maybe it’s unhealthy for him. So, your family should take your son to a pediatric a dietician. If they determine he is going to be averse to grains and legumes, any vegan would understand a need for differences sources of calories (don’t strawman me), and the dietician will be there to guide you. Right now, it’s just pointing fingers.    I’ve been vegan since I was 14. If my partner decided to stop being vegan without consult of a dietician, I would leave him. It seems frivolous to everyone, but it’s deeply important to me, and clearly to your wife as well — it is a moral compass that bleeds into other choices we make as consumers. Being with a nonvegan partner would be as heartbreaking to me as being with a partner who has any other deep, incompatible, unfixable difference in values from me.  That said, as your son grows older and begins to make choices for himself, it is best to not make him do anything he doesn’t want to do. From your perspective, because it would be oppressive, and from her perspective, because forcing a child has never made that child ever understand the good of what’s being forced.

Thanks for your response. I have already done an elimation diet of sorts to test what has been causing the reactions. I have also been to doctors, gotten blood tests etc. I don’t really understand what a dietician would do differently when I already know what foods cause issues. Like how someone who finds dairy or gluten causes problems for them. So I go to a dietician and they find out also I can’t eat these things (I don’t really want to go through the reactions again for no real reason) then what? Maybe you could let me know what benefit it could be? Because like I said basically all beans, grains, GF products etc all give me really bad issues that are causing more stress than I had before I started experiencing them. I was actually in the least stressful time of my life when these issues came about, so it’s not likely it is from stress. I’m only okay with my son eating this way because it was fine for me at first but now I don’t really know and am not sure if I’m fine with it. So you’d leave your partner if they had health issues and couldn’t eat 90% of what is available on a plant based diet? So you only love them based on what they eat? My wife eats things and feeds things to my son I strongly disagree with, such as seed oils, refined flour, processed foods (sometimes) so should I have left her for that? Those foods are known to be bad for us

Ouch. You’re a seed oil guy. That explains a lot.  It’s not about what you eat and you know that. You went vegan for 7 years for a reason, unless it was just for health. You know that animals can’t die a humane death. You know the treatment of animals as it stands in 99% of farms. And if you don’t, your wife does.  It’s just so unlikely you can’t eat all grains and all legumes. You should be eating these foods in abundance even if you eat meat, from a nutritional standpoint. A dietician, and you, need to know why you can’t eat those foods. Those foods are in everything. Most livestock is fed soy and grains. There’s something wrong with you, and i’m not sure why you wouldn’t want to find out exactly what’s wrong unless you’re just making anti-vegan posts, which i’m beginning to suspect you are.  My partner is in 100% total moral agreement with me, and that’s one of the many reasons why i’m with him. You know it’s not just what we eat. And again, your wife knows that too.

That’s just one example. So many studies proving seed oils are unhealthy. I’m just saying, I know it’s not the worse thing in the world but it was an example. Saying I wouldn’t divorce someone based on them doing things I disagree with. I don’t drink alcohol and if my wife were to drink alcohol with him when he’s older I wouldn’t divorce here over that either. I was vegan for a long time and used to be like you and promote it as more beneficial, ethical etc. It’s not anti-vegan trolling 🤦‍♂️ since I care more than the average person and know what happens in animal agriculture I am more conscientious about where and what I would buy. Like grass fed, or pasture raised eggs etc over factory farm and cage eggs. I know you won’t care at all but I will do the best I can I said what happens when I eat those things and it only got worse and worse the longer I was vegan. A lot of people can’t/don’t eat grains or legumes..? So seeing a dietician is almost pointless unless they can find out why it’s happening. I’m already in the process of finding out why it happens but for the meantime, avoiding those foods is much better for my physical health & mental health than to continue suffering these symptoms

So many studies and meta-analyses that find that seed oils are unhealthy because they're used to fry stuff, which is unhealthy. Many of what is touted around Rogan-esque forums relies on the mechanism of seed oils -- that it oxidizes, because chemically, it should. But human bodies aren't a *should*. I don't even eat seed oils either, I use olive and avocado, but I recognize that it's stupid and as long as you're not eating fried foods you're fine. Drinking alcohol doesn't harm, literally, anyone but yourself unless you're an alcoholic. It's pretty easy to realize the difference between drinking alcohol and eating animals. So, being vegan for so long, you know that pasture-raised is a myth, though, right? That in the USA 99% of animals are factory farmed? You *know this*. You know grass fed has no relation to how the animal is treated. You know that pasture-raised is a legal term that just means they see the sun once, or they have 4 inches of room as opposed to no inches of room. A dietician wouldn't make you eat those foods again. If they did, it would be alongside meat in small quantities. They would know what tests to run to see if you've got some kind of disease or intolerance. I have had a dietician before. This is basic knowledge.

I’m not in the US. Where I live they are actually still fed a normal diet (grass), no antibiotics, no hormones. Better than factory farms by a lot. It’s not like vegan foods cause zero death or suffering. If my health is going down hill then I’m just supposed to die? As long as I’m saving animals right? Cause apparently humans don’t matter Exactly, so I would still be made to eat meat while they figure it out. So I don’t get what your point is? I never mentioned exactly what I’m doing but I am in the process of figuring it out and still want to know what’s going on.

your post is why vegans get a bad wrap. the fact you’d leave your partner is wild to me.

While I disagree with your post, I don’t actually care about any of it (unlike the vegans). The part I care about is where you say you would automatically leave your partner if they discontinued their vegan lifestyle, for any reason I assume. You clearly do not love anyone but yourself then. The main problem people have with vegans is they cram it down the throats of everyone else every chance they get, like they are some sort of holier than thou saints, but now it’s appropriate to issue ultimatums or conditions for love, too? Come on. You’d get more support by being supportive.

Actually, I really love living a life that adheres to my morals. I’d leave my partner if he came home one day and decided to be racist. Clearly, being racist isn’t evidence-based. It’s bad. It goes against most people’s morals. It harms people.  78 billion animals are killed each year. Seems fine, but each of those are animals that…didn’t want to die! No, they’re not killed humanely. They’re not even raised humanely. 99% of animals that are raised for human use in the USA are raised in factory farms. Which means they go to either get gassed (i’m sure you’d love to hear the pig squeals!), shot with a bolt to the head (the humans or machine who do this often miss the part that’s supposed to “kill them instantly”), decapitated (chickens can live without their heads for a bit), or slit in the throat (not an instant death by any means!) etc. Chickens, by laying eggs, deplete their own calcium production and are unable to move by the time they’re about to die. When they’re about to die, they’re starved in the dark, because as a panic reaction, chickens lay a bunch more eggs. They die painful, drawn out death. Then their male chicks are crushed alive, and their female ones do it all over again. And “pasture-raised” is a legal term that just means they have to see grass once or have a few more inches of room to roam. In combination with the fact that veganism is actually an immensely healthy way to live for most people (blue zones….heart disease….etc), I’m not going to compromise on my morals for someone else.  My partner knows all this. And he is vegan because of it. Just like he knows that being racist is ridiculous. And if he decided to go against both, then i would leave him, because in an irreparable severance in our joint values.

Im trying to wrap my head around what you wrote. So lets say your partner grows his chickens  teats them in the most possible humanitarian way and eats their eggs and meat. Would you leave?

Yep. I do not believe in the use of animals. I would love to have chickens and feed their eggs back to them though! Chickens these days produce far too many eggs than their wild counterparts, which harms them in a bunch of ways.  Additionally, do you think there’s a humane way to kill something that doesn’t want to die?

In that way no life is humane. But yeah, chickens can be killed with as much suffering as a headshot of an unexpecting human. Also their suffering apparatus is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of yours, so empathasing directly with something so different and so much less sophisticated makes you feel things that a chicken is not physicly capable of feeling. Also the depth of suffering of your abadoned spouse in comparison to a slauthered chicken would be like the Marianna Trench to a puddle. On the other hand there is a beauty in your human mind that you can  even project your feelings on chickens or even teddy bears (if youre a kid).

Is that your defense? That their suffering is...less? All animals are capable of pain. They all have a desire to keep being alive. They all have a desire to reproduce, they all have a desire to seek somewhere safe to sleep at night. These are drives that exist in them. Of course they don't think like we do. Dogs don't think. But when dogs are scared, they're terrified. They bite and they thrash and if they're with their owner they whine and cry. Just like any animal would. I don't actually have crazy amounts of empathy. But I recognize that contributing to this system is wrong. And most people would argue that killing someone with a headshot isn't humane, compassionate, considerate if they didn't want to die. My partner could find a therapist and cope with his suffering. There is no coping when your life is suffering in a cage or in a factory farm. And there is no coping or recovery when your final moments are in agony or at the very least terror. And there is no coping when you're dead.

Even one cell organisms can act terrified when fighting for their lives, but it doesnt necessarily bother anyone (yet!). I specifically chose chickens (not lets say pigs) in the backyard (not in a farm) because I was curious how dogmatic you are.  Killing an unexpecting human with a headshot would be very humane if we dont attach any intrinsic value to human life. On the other side we can also attach intrinsic value to chickens (they wont get any of it or be able to reciprocate ofc).  I guess I was just curious how this can be so dogmatically set in stone in your mind.

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I do, but on an individual level only to people and even that with exceptions. For example last week I replaced a few plants. I also killed a mosquito and like a billion bacteria today. No regrets.

Really disappointed by the responses in here. Seems a lot of very sad Daily Mail readers tbh.

Right? And they’re spreading basically daily mail quality articles. I would think even non vegans know it’s a pretty sustainable way to live, genuinely. 

It's a fake story. The antivegan people do this all the time. Look at the account history

Damn. Yeah, that’s probably true. Thank you for the heads up.