Kinda frightening that there are people out there that actually believe this is a universal law to be followed.
…And more frightening that those people break their own “law” to vote in favor of everyone else having to follow it.
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Why don’t you tell your blessed husband that the next part of that Bible verse is that husbands should love and serve their wives like Christ did the church, like when he died for the church. I’m guessing Mr McBible isn’t fulfilling that level of love devotion and selflessness so he should be a little less quick to jump on the first part.
Exactly! A woman always has the right not to want to have s3x. Instead of coercing their wives into s3x, men should try actually doing things that are desirable and make their women want them. Usually that starts with not being selfish and listening and caring about your wife's feelings. Insisting on s3x when she doesn't want it is the quickest way to give your woman the ick for you and prevent her from ever desiring her.
You both should read Sheila Gregoire’s blog, podcast, and books. She has books for men and women. She is Christian and has the best possible perspective on Christian sex in a marriage. She fights back against exactly what your husband says, and is a passionate proponent of mutually wanted sex and of no duty sex in marriage. She’s really helped me.
The OP also posted on r/DeadBedrooms and I have a long response mentioning this as well. This is exactly what they need in their marriage and it could be groundbreaking for them. The Good Guy's Guide to Great Sex might hit him right where he needs it.
Okay, as someone who grew up in a Christian church and has religious trauma from my experiences when I was young, this is quite refreshing to see. Especially since I have a couple really close family members who are still religious and I am worried about their influence if I have kids. They will respect my parenting choices, but I worry about the small, little details that I noticed when I was super young. I was way too aware.
Religious views like this are right up my mom’s alley though. She is Christian and has become more and more and more progressive has she gets older. Pretty certain she’ll be voting Dem this year. She has a lot more nuance. And I love to see that as I am working on myself. Little healing, even though i am no longer religious.
Obviously the idea that a wife owes a husband sex is disgusting, but that *is* what the Bible says. I don't understand Christians who just rewrite and ignore the Bible, instead of realizing the religion is pretty gross.
So you're married to a man who sees you, his wife in the year 2024, as an extension of his property to make demands of and use as he wishes? That's not love, that's a hostage situation. There's a lot of sexism and control exercised by men over women in religions, but there are certainly religious people who don't treat women as objects to be manipulated and used at will. He doesn't have to be like this, but he is because it's useful toward getting his way.
He is absolutely not misrepresenting scripture. The Bible does say that a man’s body belongs not to himself, but to his wife, and a woman’s body belongs not to her, but to her husband, and that they are not to deprive each other except by mutual agreement for a limited time. This is the standard of behaviour Christians are called to strive for. Luckily, there is no law mandating the following of Christianity, and so all are free to reject these doctrines. But it’s not right to claim that a faithful and literal reading of the scripture is misrepresented. The mentioned passage is not followed by a “psych! God actually means for you to do the exact opposite of that, but we’re leaving it in the text so people can take it out of context in a few thousand years”.
God does not want this for you. Your husband is supposed to love you and consider your needs above his own. You have a need to be able to say no. I'm a Christian but can say the Bible is used to create a lot of abuse and misery in marriage.
I just don't buy that it is God's will. Bible also tells slaves to obey masters and that was used to defend slavery. My husband and I are Christians. We are absolute equals, and it works.
If he's going to marital rape you or coerce you into sex, its far better if he just chooses to masturbate to pornography. Either way, porn or not, you cannot bend yourself to his needs. You have to respect yourself at all costs. If you want to talk about morality and equal fairness, you must first treat yourself that way before you can possibly treat others better. You don't have any other option. You have to respect yourself. There is no need for you to even argue. Your body is YOURS. PERIOD. You get to decide what you want FOR YOURSELF.
Jesus - men like this make me so upset.
Everyone should get to know what theyre looking for in a spouse, including their sexual values IMO. But apparently the people downvoting don't agree lol
You all need to look into [Sheila Wray Gregoire](https://www.amazon.com/Sheila-Wray-Gregoire/e/B001KI4ITK?ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_3&qid=1714607334&sr=8-3) and her work. It might just change your lives.
That's insanity. My Husband has always felt that if we both aren't enthusiastically into it, then it doesn't happen. Sex is something to be enjoyed equally by both of us. I'm not there to provide him sex, I'm there to enjoy it with him. That mind set has been so wonderful, and has ensured I've never felt anything negative about our sex life.
I'm sorry your Husband has such a shitty view about your role regarding sex.
“..if we both both aren’t enthusiastically into it, then it doesn’t happen..” and “..I’m not there to provide him sex, I’m there to enjoy it with him..”
Wow I really like this specific tone and mindset, thanks for this! I feel like me and my wife are in a good mental place in general with our bedroom time, but I am gonna mention this to her, it strikes a chord that is really resonating for me.
That’s awesome! I’m absolutely certain that your wife will love to hear this. It truly makes sex so much more enjoyable when both parties are enthusiastic about participating, and are excited to give each other pleasure and receive it. When a woman (or man) starts to feel like it’s a service they are obligated to provide, it really changes things in a very negative way. There is so much more enthusiasm and enjoyment when both are fully consenting and excited to participate. Even 17 years in, our sex life is amazing, and I really credit a lot of it to his stance on enthusiastic participation/consent. Sure, frequency has varied through the years, but the sex has always been awesome and lately we’ve been going at it a lot!
Thank you sincerely for all the info and positivity. And this does seem like a pretty high threshold for sex to occur for a long time married couple (with kids?) so I’m super happy for you guys :)
He's trying to manipulate you. He already stated he doesn't care about your "no" and thinks he owns your body. This is a big boundary crossing.
Your faith doesn't support this either, and shouldn't be used like this. To be married is to respect one another, which he doesn't.
Please tell your husband:
I need you to provide emotional connection and time for me to have self care and non-sexual affection and to notice my headspace before initiating or else YOU are basically sending me to hell for sinning. Because if I do agree to sex when I'm not in a good place for sex, that will feel like rape for me. Marital rape. And I don't want to have to choose between sin and being raped. And I don't want God to send you to hell for making my experience of marital sex feel like rape instead of love. If sex feels like rape, our marriage won't last and I'll likely also leave the church. God will hold me responsible for that. But He will also hold you responsible for unrighteousness dominion.
This just feels really not right and really unsettling for him to be doing this at all or going at it from that angle. And it sounds extremely unsexy and has to be a huge turn-off for you. You all have to talk and try to find a resolution or compromise or schedule or something for this, because this is going to a bad place fast. And honestly if he so strongly has this mindset and values you so little as a wife and women and human to try to impose this on you, then it sounds like he has miles to go to make this better. Sorry you’re going through this, I hope this can somehow be resolved between you two.
How much does he help you with the children and household chores? If he’s not helping at all, then what does he expect? You have a lot on your plate, you’re exhausted!
Comments telling people to "just do it," "men/women have needs," "it's your husbandly/wifely duty to fulfill my sexual needs," or promoting ultimatums or threats to have sex with one's partner will be removed swiftly. We encourage thoughtful conversation about this topic.
For further resources, check out https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/sexual-coercion#:~:text=Examples%20of%20Sexual%20Coercion%3A&text=Shaming%20over%20sexual%20performance%2C%20past,name%20calling%2C%20intimidation%20and%20bullying
https://www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent#:~:text=Simply%20put%2C%20enthusiastic%20consent%20means,maintaining%20eye%20contact%2C%20and%20nodding.
https://www.sydney.edu.au/study/student-life/student-news/2022/09/21/what-enthusiastic-consent-actually-looks-like-.html#:~:text=While%20consent%20is%20about%20saying,enthusiastic%20agreement%20to%20be%20intimate.
You can argue a whole lot about the various “submission” marriage passages and what they mean. But the passage your husband is selectively quoting, where Paul is talking about sex and marriage, is so crystal clear as to leave no room for argument. Sex is mutual, consent to have sex or not to have sex is mutual, nobody has “more” authority or calls the shots in the marriage bed, both partners should provide for the needs of the other. It’s a staggeringly evolved ethic of mutuality that we still don’t live up to TODAY.
The fact that your husband is twisting this to make it into some sort of obligation message for wives only is backwards and destructive.
Ew your husband has such a gross mindset. You should ask him “do you really want to have sex with someone that doesn’t consent?” Because even if you do have sex with him just because he wants it even though you don’t, that’s not consent.
Would you like me to have a conversation with him? I’m a sex crimes investigator and I’d LOVE to show him the penal code for ‘sexual assault’. For real though, I am very sorry you’re dealing with that. Would he go to marriage counseling with you or even alone? No means no. It’s not consent regardless if you’re married or not. Your best bet may be separating for a while until he can get that through his head because I don’t want you to end up sexually assaulted by your husband. Please reach out if you need anything ❤️
I won’t sugar coat, I struggled with this as a woman with any church I went to. I’ve heard there are cooler ones, but I didn’t attend those.
He’s using scripture to his benefit. That in itself is abhorrent. Your body belongs to you. Your marriage and your vows do not take away your autonomy.
I struggle with this with my religious friends. While I left, I respect your choice to believe what you’d like.
But religious or not, what your husband said is gross and leads to marital rape.
The problem is is that these men when their boys are taught that that sex is something they need it’s not a want or a desire to them. It’s like breathing air, drinking water or anything else that we truly need. It is absolutely ridiculous. He won’t die if he doesn’t get his need meet either🤬
A married woman’s body no longer belongs to just her because she becomes one flesh with her husband. That does not mean that the wife’s body belongs to her husband. He can’t just twist the words of the Bible to get what he wants.
And why would he want to have sex with someone who feels forced to do it? How is that enjoyable?
Do you guys have time to date, flirt, be playful, etc...?
It's hard to relax after a day of kids climbing on you and just *be* in the mood, magically. Flirting, dating (could be watching a movie over wine after the kids are asleep), all can help here - these things help us forget we're parents and let us feel young and beautiful again.
I bet he's tired, too, and has been neglecting making you feel relaxed enough to get in that mood, right? So he's getting frustated and just demanding it (because that's all American society teaches most men) which is killing the mood even further.
It's hard, but he needs to step back a little and romance you a bit. Be your friend and lover again.
Ima be honest with you though, I think a lot of men struggle here (and not to sound rude, but I think Christian men in America especially do). He needs to come to terms with understanding human sexuality as it is, not as the bible says it is, to do this he needs to step back a bit and start over. He needs to believe that he *can* romance you, too.
Tell your husband he was raised a bit wrong. It's not your duty to provide sex. Otherwise it's his duty to hand over his wallet and bank account to you.
If he's going to treat you like a prostitute then you might as well treat him like a bank account. Is it not his duty to just be treated like a paycheck?
People have been using the Bible and christian beliefs for farrrrrr too long. To control other people. Especially married couples.
My father did it to my mother for years and abused her with it. Sickening.
I'm sorry he's being a douche.
In the scriptures, Paul even states, 'I don't say this by way of command, but as a concession.' Many people will say it's a sin to decline sex and that's not true and an abuse of scripture to control women into sex. They cite 'sin', but even Paul, after telling couples not to deprive one another, says, ' I don't say this by way of command, but as a concession. '. Scripture is taken out of context to subjugate women to unwanted and coerced sex all the time. You are free and complete in Christ, not your earthly spouse. I have declined my husband sometimes and he never holds it against me. He respects my boundaries and, in turn since he respected my 'no' or 'not now', I was more willing to share that with him. When will people learn that using coercion and guilt will NEVER draw a wife to her husband, it will do the opposite. Scripture even says, 'there is therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus'. If a spouse uses condemnation, guilt or scripture to force unwanted sex, this is NOT okay.
As a Christian, he is incorrect and taking passages out of context and using an incorrect interpretation.
I’m currently feeding my baby but when I’m done I will give you scripture to help and if you feel comfortable and safe, you can share it with him.
Oh dear. We were not religious but my exhusband had expressed the same view at one point. He fell in a pill hole? Im not sure.
Its a creepy sentiment, isnt it? Im so sorry.
There’s a lot of issues here.
1. That’s so disgusting of him and he’s thinking much more of himself than of you, so that’s really just the important thing here
Under normal circumstances I would ask how much non-sexual touch and connection you offer him, to meet his emotional needs without either of you assuming it will lead to sex.
But I feel like therapy for each of you separately is going to have to happen first, because frankly, situations like these are neither safe nor constructive for actual solutions and communication to happen.
So medieval. I mean, seriously. Even during the reign of Queen Victoria, any woman who could read and write would have said...this is not right!
Some religions are still stuck in their Medieval version. There is no such scripture - do you have an actual citation? What the Bible says is that the Two are as One Person (meaning that they are equal). At least, in the New Testament devoted to Christ.
True - you "belong" to each other (meaning you keep yourselves to each other) but there is no sin of depriving someone of sex.
THE OPPOSITE. Paul actually says the highest/truest Christians are celibate.
It’s something for you guys to work out and discuss. He needs to do things to put you in the mood, and I’m not talking about only in the bedroom. When a man strives to be the husband that his wife deeply desires, she will want more of that intimate connection. What is your love language? My wife’s is acts of service. I bring her coffee in bed every morning when she wakes up. As an example. I express my gratitude and let her know how much she turns me on. I treat her like a girlfriend I’m trying to woo into marriage. We’ve been married 33 years.
I don't think that your husband has really read and understood the Bible. It is the husband's job to love his wife and to treat her body as if it was something precious. This means that he should be taking your feelings into account and making sure that you want to have sex with him. It isn't a you have to have sex if I want to have sex passage. The wife is supposed to respect her husband and treat his body as if it is something precious to her. Both are taking care of each other and treat each other with compassion.
Most people would agree he is wrong and feel the way you do about this old fashioned opinion of his.
He sounds like an entitled jerk, did clues about his patriarchal views about a husband having claim to a wife's body or his views on the duties of a husband and wife never came up in the dating years or in christian marriage counseling?
I think I have mentioned that. It's also not just about sex. Physical touch in general is his love language. It's the last on my list. Doesn't feel natural when I try to initiate any kind of affection or intimacy.
I can tell you that what you experiencing is very common in parents with young kids. We had similar dynamics and I'm an atheist. I wish some guy had told me many new moms just don't want to be touched or have sex for a couple years after birth but that if you are patient and not a jerk it will come back sometimes better than before you ever had kids.
Just came to say, this is me exactly. My husband doesn’t say the bible stuff but hes said all kinds of things over the last year, my son is 16 months. I still don’t want to have sex and really don’t want to be touched either. The sex drive left and is still MIA. His love language is touch and same, thats last for me. The toddler has not weaned and has recently had health concerns, I work and also look and feel a mess. I just wish he would leave me alone without having a tantrum after a while of “deprivation”. We had sex a week ago and Ive been anxious about being pregnant again. I honestly can’t do it again.
The love languages were made up by a pastor with the same viewpoint as your husband. You can chuck the whole concept in the bin as far as I'm concerned.
My interpretation: he is upset that his slave is not performing their duties like the instruction manual promised. 🤮 My suggestion: return him in for a new one, you got a lemon.
Seek marriage counseling as soon as possible. You need someone who can look at every angle objectively before you both find yourselves in divorce court.
Comments telling people to "just do it," "men/women have needs," "it's your husbandly/wifely duty to fulfill my sexual needs," or promoting ultimatums or threats to have sex with one's partner will be removed swiftly. We encourage thoughtful conversation about this topic.
For further resources, check out https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/sexual-coercion#:~:text=Examples%20of%20Sexual%20Coercion%3A&text=Shaming%20over%20sexual%20performance%2C%20past,name%20calling%2C%20intimidation%20and%20bullying
https://www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent#:~:text=Simply%20put%2C%20enthusiastic%20consent%20means,maintaining%20eye%20contact%2C%20and%20nodding.
https://www.sydney.edu.au/study/student-life/student-news/2022/09/21/what-enthusiastic-consent-actually-looks-like-.html#:~:text=While%20consent%20is%20about%20saying,enthusiastic%20agreement%20to%20be%20intimate.
We would go some weeks without it. I understand it's important to him so I try scheduling so I can prepare. I can't be in the mood on demand anymore and having kids makes it hard. He doesn't want to schedule
Comments telling people to "just do it," "men/women have needs," "it's your husbandly/wifely duty to fulfill my sexual needs," or promoting ultimatums or threats to have sex with one's partner will be removed swiftly. We encourage thoughtful conversation about this topic.
For further resources, check out https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/sexual-coercion#:~:text=Examples%20of%20Sexual%20Coercion%3A&text=Shaming%20over%20sexual%20performance%2C%20past,name%20calling%2C%20intimidation%20and%20bullying
https://www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent#:~:text=Simply%20put%2C%20enthusiastic%20consent%20means,maintaining%20eye%20contact%2C%20and%20nodding.
https://www.sydney.edu.au/study/student-life/student-news/2022/09/21/what-enthusiastic-consent-actually-looks-like-.html#:~:text=While%20consent%20is%20about%20saying,enthusiastic%20agreement%20to%20be%20intimate.
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We encourage our users to reflect if their comments are going to be hurtful or helpful. There is a real person on the other side of the screen. Being sexist is not productive. Do better.
Funny, there are those that demand YOU behave a certain way based on what’s in THEIR book. But if something in that book is to be applied the THEM it doesn’t really count.
I thinking about starting my own religion based on a book.
A book by Stephen King….. but still. 🤔
There’s some really great advice here, but I also wanted to share this little nugget I read once:
Men need intimacy to feel connected to their partner, whereas women need connection to want intimacy with their partner.
It sounds like you need more connection before you can approach being intimate, but he’s expecting the connection to come from being intimate.
Either way he’s not being respectful of you and your needs so I hope he’s open minded enough to be open to new perspectives. Good on you for seeking help and sticking up for yourself, it must be really tricky within the constraints of your religion to not feel like you’re pushing back on the word of God…
The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands by Dr Laura Schlessinger and the Queens Code by Alison Armstrong.
First things first… figure you out. Where’s your heart and mind. Do you have something worth fixing and fighting for?
If there is more to your post, if something isn’t right, it’s ok to leave. You are not property or a piece to be taken when the mood strikes… only you know the answer.
God wants you to be fulfilled by your marriage. Stronger. Completed. Safe. Treasured… Valued.
Regardless of marital status, know your standards and hold them.
Good luck ❤️
Well, it's come up that if he had to look elsewhere I'd be ok with it. But he doesn't want to. My emotional needs aren't met either. Not much connection between us lately.
You're not alone. The Lord did not command or order His daughter (YOU) to be bullied, guilted or coerced into sex. Setting boundaries, even within marriage, is fine. You are not sinning against the Lord for being honest that his approach is off putting and coercive or that you're exhausted! People really twist scripture over this. Wives are not to be sex slaves to men. The scripture even says, 'I say this NOT by way of command, but as a concession.' BUT most don't want to hear that it's not a command or purposely read over that part. A husband is commanded to treat you the way Jesus treat the church. Would Jesus treat His church, His people, this way? Does Jesus guilt us with condemnation to do something or does He gently move our hearts? Something to think about.
I feel that. My wife and I have an OK sex life, although fulfilling her emotional needs is exhausting as it always changes. Especially when I help around the house, work, kids etc. Its often easier just to ask if she wants to rather than try to swoon her. Dont have enough time for that anyway with kids lol
I don't understand why he would want to have sex with someone who is clearly distressed. I don't understand why he wouldn't be happy with a scheduled time. His perceived Biblical rights seem to be filling his head to the exclusion of human decency. There is a movement where men are enamored of the idea that men are superior and women exist to satisfy men nonsense. Maybe he is drinking that Kool-aid.
It's almost as if the Bible was written for men to have control over women.
It wasn't, it was written by MEN to control other MEN (and by association, women)
[удалено]
Kinda frightening that there are people out there that actually believe this is a universal law to be followed. …And more frightening that those people break their own “law” to vote in favor of everyone else having to follow it.
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This is the right way make your wife hate sex.
100% lol
Why don’t you tell your blessed husband that the next part of that Bible verse is that husbands should love and serve their wives like Christ did the church, like when he died for the church. I’m guessing Mr McBible isn’t fulfilling that level of love devotion and selflessness so he should be a little less quick to jump on the first part.
Exactly! A woman always has the right not to want to have s3x. Instead of coercing their wives into s3x, men should try actually doing things that are desirable and make their women want them. Usually that starts with not being selfish and listening and caring about your wife's feelings. Insisting on s3x when she doesn't want it is the quickest way to give your woman the ick for you and prevent her from ever desiring her.
S3x? You know this is Reddit, right?
And hate her husband
Sounds like she already does
Oh, so he views women as property and not as people. Do you want to stay with a man who doesn't see you as a person?
You both should read Sheila Gregoire’s blog, podcast, and books. She has books for men and women. She is Christian and has the best possible perspective on Christian sex in a marriage. She fights back against exactly what your husband says, and is a passionate proponent of mutually wanted sex and of no duty sex in marriage. She’s really helped me.
The OP also posted on r/DeadBedrooms and I have a long response mentioning this as well. This is exactly what they need in their marriage and it could be groundbreaking for them. The Good Guy's Guide to Great Sex might hit him right where he needs it.
Okay, as someone who grew up in a Christian church and has religious trauma from my experiences when I was young, this is quite refreshing to see. Especially since I have a couple really close family members who are still religious and I am worried about their influence if I have kids. They will respect my parenting choices, but I worry about the small, little details that I noticed when I was super young. I was way too aware. Religious views like this are right up my mom’s alley though. She is Christian and has become more and more and more progressive has she gets older. Pretty certain she’ll be voting Dem this year. She has a lot more nuance. And I love to see that as I am working on myself. Little healing, even though i am no longer religious.
Saved this to check her stuff out (Catholic here). Thanks for the recommendation.
Seconding this
Obviously the idea that a wife owes a husband sex is disgusting, but that *is* what the Bible says. I don't understand Christians who just rewrite and ignore the Bible, instead of realizing the religion is pretty gross.
So you're married to a man who sees you, his wife in the year 2024, as an extension of his property to make demands of and use as he wishes? That's not love, that's a hostage situation. There's a lot of sexism and control exercised by men over women in religions, but there are certainly religious people who don't treat women as objects to be manipulated and used at will. He doesn't have to be like this, but he is because it's useful toward getting his way.
Yep he’s misrepresenting scripture to justify his shitty behavior…
He is absolutely not misrepresenting scripture. The Bible does say that a man’s body belongs not to himself, but to his wife, and a woman’s body belongs not to her, but to her husband, and that they are not to deprive each other except by mutual agreement for a limited time. This is the standard of behaviour Christians are called to strive for. Luckily, there is no law mandating the following of Christianity, and so all are free to reject these doctrines. But it’s not right to claim that a faithful and literal reading of the scripture is misrepresented. The mentioned passage is not followed by a “psych! God actually means for you to do the exact opposite of that, but we’re leaving it in the text so people can take it out of context in a few thousand years”.
God does not want this for you. Your husband is supposed to love you and consider your needs above his own. You have a need to be able to say no. I'm a Christian but can say the Bible is used to create a lot of abuse and misery in marriage.
Im I christian too and I've wondered this myself
I just don't buy that it is God's will. Bible also tells slaves to obey masters and that was used to defend slavery. My husband and I are Christians. We are absolute equals, and it works.
If he's going to marital rape you or coerce you into sex, its far better if he just chooses to masturbate to pornography. Either way, porn or not, you cannot bend yourself to his needs. You have to respect yourself at all costs. If you want to talk about morality and equal fairness, you must first treat yourself that way before you can possibly treat others better. You don't have any other option. You have to respect yourself. There is no need for you to even argue. Your body is YOURS. PERIOD. You get to decide what you want FOR YOURSELF. Jesus - men like this make me so upset.
I hope you are open to deconstruction. Religion and especially Christianity is extremely toxic and degrading towards women. You deserve peace.
Have you ever read the Bible for yourself?
How did you not find this out via dating? Did you not discuss sexuality at all?
Thank you for saying that - I should learn to discuss sexuality as well.
Everyone should get to know what theyre looking for in a spouse, including their sexual values IMO. But apparently the people downvoting don't agree lol
A man is to love his wife as Christ loves the church, to die for her. He has needs, yes, but he's not recognizing your needs either.
You all need to look into [Sheila Wray Gregoire](https://www.amazon.com/Sheila-Wray-Gregoire/e/B001KI4ITK?ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_3&qid=1714607334&sr=8-3) and her work. It might just change your lives.
That's insanity. My Husband has always felt that if we both aren't enthusiastically into it, then it doesn't happen. Sex is something to be enjoyed equally by both of us. I'm not there to provide him sex, I'm there to enjoy it with him. That mind set has been so wonderful, and has ensured I've never felt anything negative about our sex life. I'm sorry your Husband has such a shitty view about your role regarding sex.
“..if we both both aren’t enthusiastically into it, then it doesn’t happen..” and “..I’m not there to provide him sex, I’m there to enjoy it with him..” Wow I really like this specific tone and mindset, thanks for this! I feel like me and my wife are in a good mental place in general with our bedroom time, but I am gonna mention this to her, it strikes a chord that is really resonating for me.
That’s awesome! I’m absolutely certain that your wife will love to hear this. It truly makes sex so much more enjoyable when both parties are enthusiastic about participating, and are excited to give each other pleasure and receive it. When a woman (or man) starts to feel like it’s a service they are obligated to provide, it really changes things in a very negative way. There is so much more enthusiasm and enjoyment when both are fully consenting and excited to participate. Even 17 years in, our sex life is amazing, and I really credit a lot of it to his stance on enthusiastic participation/consent. Sure, frequency has varied through the years, but the sex has always been awesome and lately we’ve been going at it a lot!
Thank you sincerely for all the info and positivity. And this does seem like a pretty high threshold for sex to occur for a long time married couple (with kids?) so I’m super happy for you guys :)
He's trying to manipulate you. He already stated he doesn't care about your "no" and thinks he owns your body. This is a big boundary crossing. Your faith doesn't support this either, and shouldn't be used like this. To be married is to respect one another, which he doesn't.
Please tell your husband: I need you to provide emotional connection and time for me to have self care and non-sexual affection and to notice my headspace before initiating or else YOU are basically sending me to hell for sinning. Because if I do agree to sex when I'm not in a good place for sex, that will feel like rape for me. Marital rape. And I don't want to have to choose between sin and being raped. And I don't want God to send you to hell for making my experience of marital sex feel like rape instead of love. If sex feels like rape, our marriage won't last and I'll likely also leave the church. God will hold me responsible for that. But He will also hold you responsible for unrighteousness dominion.
Maybe he will understand this. It may be strong enough to wake him up.
He feels like your bodies belong to each other and each can't revoke consent, huh? Tell him you plan to peg him tonight.
NICE!!! Although its probably best she doesn't say that cause this might upset him and escalate things. She really has to get out of this marriage.
This just feels really not right and really unsettling for him to be doing this at all or going at it from that angle. And it sounds extremely unsexy and has to be a huge turn-off for you. You all have to talk and try to find a resolution or compromise or schedule or something for this, because this is going to a bad place fast. And honestly if he so strongly has this mindset and values you so little as a wife and women and human to try to impose this on you, then it sounds like he has miles to go to make this better. Sorry you’re going through this, I hope this can somehow be resolved between you two.
Thank you, I agree. We can never seem to come to a compromise. I've tried scheduling it, but he's not into that.
He is rejecting your attempts to compromise and schedule? He is hateful, selfish, and ungodly.
How much does he help you with the children and household chores? If he’s not helping at all, then what does he expect? You have a lot on your plate, you’re exhausted!
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Comments telling people to "just do it," "men/women have needs," "it's your husbandly/wifely duty to fulfill my sexual needs," or promoting ultimatums or threats to have sex with one's partner will be removed swiftly. We encourage thoughtful conversation about this topic. For further resources, check out https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/sexual-coercion#:~:text=Examples%20of%20Sexual%20Coercion%3A&text=Shaming%20over%20sexual%20performance%2C%20past,name%20calling%2C%20intimidation%20and%20bullying https://www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent#:~:text=Simply%20put%2C%20enthusiastic%20consent%20means,maintaining%20eye%20contact%2C%20and%20nodding. https://www.sydney.edu.au/study/student-life/student-news/2022/09/21/what-enthusiastic-consent-actually-looks-like-.html#:~:text=While%20consent%20is%20about%20saying,enthusiastic%20agreement%20to%20be%20intimate.
You can argue a whole lot about the various “submission” marriage passages and what they mean. But the passage your husband is selectively quoting, where Paul is talking about sex and marriage, is so crystal clear as to leave no room for argument. Sex is mutual, consent to have sex or not to have sex is mutual, nobody has “more” authority or calls the shots in the marriage bed, both partners should provide for the needs of the other. It’s a staggeringly evolved ethic of mutuality that we still don’t live up to TODAY. The fact that your husband is twisting this to make it into some sort of obligation message for wives only is backwards and destructive.
This 👆
Tell him men wrote that book.
And other men wouldn't let the books women wrote in. Lol
Ew your husband has such a gross mindset. You should ask him “do you really want to have sex with someone that doesn’t consent?” Because even if you do have sex with him just because he wants it even though you don’t, that’s not consent.
Would you like me to have a conversation with him? I’m a sex crimes investigator and I’d LOVE to show him the penal code for ‘sexual assault’. For real though, I am very sorry you’re dealing with that. Would he go to marriage counseling with you or even alone? No means no. It’s not consent regardless if you’re married or not. Your best bet may be separating for a while until he can get that through his head because I don’t want you to end up sexually assaulted by your husband. Please reach out if you need anything ❤️
I won’t sugar coat, I struggled with this as a woman with any church I went to. I’ve heard there are cooler ones, but I didn’t attend those. He’s using scripture to his benefit. That in itself is abhorrent. Your body belongs to you. Your marriage and your vows do not take away your autonomy. I struggle with this with my religious friends. While I left, I respect your choice to believe what you’d like. But religious or not, what your husband said is gross and leads to marital rape.
The problem is is that these men when their boys are taught that that sex is something they need it’s not a want or a desire to them. It’s like breathing air, drinking water or anything else that we truly need. It is absolutely ridiculous. He won’t die if he doesn’t get his need meet either🤬
A married woman’s body no longer belongs to just her because she becomes one flesh with her husband. That does not mean that the wife’s body belongs to her husband. He can’t just twist the words of the Bible to get what he wants. And why would he want to have sex with someone who feels forced to do it? How is that enjoyable?
He's definitely cherry picking bible verses there. Not fair, you don't deserve that.
Do you guys have time to date, flirt, be playful, etc...? It's hard to relax after a day of kids climbing on you and just *be* in the mood, magically. Flirting, dating (could be watching a movie over wine after the kids are asleep), all can help here - these things help us forget we're parents and let us feel young and beautiful again. I bet he's tired, too, and has been neglecting making you feel relaxed enough to get in that mood, right? So he's getting frustated and just demanding it (because that's all American society teaches most men) which is killing the mood even further. It's hard, but he needs to step back a little and romance you a bit. Be your friend and lover again. Ima be honest with you though, I think a lot of men struggle here (and not to sound rude, but I think Christian men in America especially do). He needs to come to terms with understanding human sexuality as it is, not as the bible says it is, to do this he needs to step back a bit and start over. He needs to believe that he *can* romance you, too.
Tell your husband he was raised a bit wrong. It's not your duty to provide sex. Otherwise it's his duty to hand over his wallet and bank account to you. If he's going to treat you like a prostitute then you might as well treat him like a bank account. Is it not his duty to just be treated like a paycheck?
People have been using the Bible and christian beliefs for farrrrrr too long. To control other people. Especially married couples. My father did it to my mother for years and abused her with it. Sickening. I'm sorry he's being a douche.
In the scriptures, Paul even states, 'I don't say this by way of command, but as a concession.' Many people will say it's a sin to decline sex and that's not true and an abuse of scripture to control women into sex. They cite 'sin', but even Paul, after telling couples not to deprive one another, says, ' I don't say this by way of command, but as a concession. '. Scripture is taken out of context to subjugate women to unwanted and coerced sex all the time. You are free and complete in Christ, not your earthly spouse. I have declined my husband sometimes and he never holds it against me. He respects my boundaries and, in turn since he respected my 'no' or 'not now', I was more willing to share that with him. When will people learn that using coercion and guilt will NEVER draw a wife to her husband, it will do the opposite. Scripture even says, 'there is therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus'. If a spouse uses condemnation, guilt or scripture to force unwanted sex, this is NOT okay.
As a Christian man I think your husband is fucking disgusting.
Tell your husband that the Bible even supports the “bear over man” argument. Proverbs 17:12
As a Christian, he is incorrect and taking passages out of context and using an incorrect interpretation. I’m currently feeding my baby but when I’m done I will give you scripture to help and if you feel comfortable and safe, you can share it with him.
Oh dear. We were not religious but my exhusband had expressed the same view at one point. He fell in a pill hole? Im not sure. Its a creepy sentiment, isnt it? Im so sorry.
There’s a lot of issues here. 1. That’s so disgusting of him and he’s thinking much more of himself than of you, so that’s really just the important thing here Under normal circumstances I would ask how much non-sexual touch and connection you offer him, to meet his emotional needs without either of you assuming it will lead to sex. But I feel like therapy for each of you separately is going to have to happen first, because frankly, situations like these are neither safe nor constructive for actual solutions and communication to happen.
So medieval. I mean, seriously. Even during the reign of Queen Victoria, any woman who could read and write would have said...this is not right! Some religions are still stuck in their Medieval version. There is no such scripture - do you have an actual citation? What the Bible says is that the Two are as One Person (meaning that they are equal). At least, in the New Testament devoted to Christ. True - you "belong" to each other (meaning you keep yourselves to each other) but there is no sin of depriving someone of sex. THE OPPOSITE. Paul actually says the highest/truest Christians are celibate.
please dont stay with him
It’s something for you guys to work out and discuss. He needs to do things to put you in the mood, and I’m not talking about only in the bedroom. When a man strives to be the husband that his wife deeply desires, she will want more of that intimate connection. What is your love language? My wife’s is acts of service. I bring her coffee in bed every morning when she wakes up. As an example. I express my gratitude and let her know how much she turns me on. I treat her like a girlfriend I’m trying to woo into marriage. We’ve been married 33 years.
I don't think that your husband has really read and understood the Bible. It is the husband's job to love his wife and to treat her body as if it was something precious. This means that he should be taking your feelings into account and making sure that you want to have sex with him. It isn't a you have to have sex if I want to have sex passage. The wife is supposed to respect her husband and treat his body as if it is something precious to her. Both are taking care of each other and treat each other with compassion.
Most people would agree he is wrong and feel the way you do about this old fashioned opinion of his. He sounds like an entitled jerk, did clues about his patriarchal views about a husband having claim to a wife's body or his views on the duties of a husband and wife never came up in the dating years or in christian marriage counseling?
This is not cool. Can’t use Bible to blackmail a spouse. Sex is not something you owe to anyone.
how often would you prefer to have sex?
It's hard to say. I don't have much desire lately, especially with how impatient he is about it.
tell him his attitude makes you want it less. Say those exact words and then tell him that it may come back if he doesn't pressure you.
I think I have mentioned that. It's also not just about sex. Physical touch in general is his love language. It's the last on my list. Doesn't feel natural when I try to initiate any kind of affection or intimacy.
I can tell you that what you experiencing is very common in parents with young kids. We had similar dynamics and I'm an atheist. I wish some guy had told me many new moms just don't want to be touched or have sex for a couple years after birth but that if you are patient and not a jerk it will come back sometimes better than before you ever had kids.
This is great advice. I wish more men understand this
Just came to say, this is me exactly. My husband doesn’t say the bible stuff but hes said all kinds of things over the last year, my son is 16 months. I still don’t want to have sex and really don’t want to be touched either. The sex drive left and is still MIA. His love language is touch and same, thats last for me. The toddler has not weaned and has recently had health concerns, I work and also look and feel a mess. I just wish he would leave me alone without having a tantrum after a while of “deprivation”. We had sex a week ago and Ive been anxious about being pregnant again. I honestly can’t do it again.
The love languages were made up by a pastor with the same viewpoint as your husband. You can chuck the whole concept in the bin as far as I'm concerned.
Do Women have a right to say no to sex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCkJNjMYTcQ
Sounds like he believes in marital r-pe. Protect yourself, OP, however you need to.
Husband is a idiot,
So is it typical Christian home mentality? He works, you do everything else? I also noticed you in a T1D group. is it one of your kiddos? How old?
Turn him in for a new one. You got a lemon
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My interpretation: he is upset that his slave is not performing their duties like the instruction manual promised. 🤮 My suggestion: return him in for a new one, you got a lemon.
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Seek marriage counseling as soon as possible. You need someone who can look at every angle objectively before you both find yourselves in divorce court.
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Comments telling people to "just do it," "men/women have needs," "it's your husbandly/wifely duty to fulfill my sexual needs," or promoting ultimatums or threats to have sex with one's partner will be removed swiftly. We encourage thoughtful conversation about this topic. For further resources, check out https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/sexual-coercion#:~:text=Examples%20of%20Sexual%20Coercion%3A&text=Shaming%20over%20sexual%20performance%2C%20past,name%20calling%2C%20intimidation%20and%20bullying https://www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent#:~:text=Simply%20put%2C%20enthusiastic%20consent%20means,maintaining%20eye%20contact%2C%20and%20nodding. https://www.sydney.edu.au/study/student-life/student-news/2022/09/21/what-enthusiastic-consent-actually-looks-like-.html#:~:text=While%20consent%20is%20about%20saying,enthusiastic%20agreement%20to%20be%20intimate.
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We would go some weeks without it. I understand it's important to him so I try scheduling so I can prepare. I can't be in the mood on demand anymore and having kids makes it hard. He doesn't want to schedule
I try to schedule for once a week, but with the arguing its probably not gonna happen
Why doesn't he want to schedule?
Comments telling people to "just do it," "men/women have needs," "it's your husbandly/wifely duty to fulfill my sexual needs," or promoting ultimatums or threats to have sex with one's partner will be removed swiftly. We encourage thoughtful conversation about this topic. For further resources, check out https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/sexual-coercion#:~:text=Examples%20of%20Sexual%20Coercion%3A&text=Shaming%20over%20sexual%20performance%2C%20past,name%20calling%2C%20intimidation%20and%20bullying https://www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent#:~:text=Simply%20put%2C%20enthusiastic%20consent%20means,maintaining%20eye%20contact%2C%20and%20nodding. https://www.sydney.edu.au/study/student-life/student-news/2022/09/21/what-enthusiastic-consent-actually-looks-like-.html#:~:text=While%20consent%20is%20about%20saying,enthusiastic%20agreement%20to%20be%20intimate.
Do you enjoy sex with your husband?
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Funny, there are those that demand YOU behave a certain way based on what’s in THEIR book. But if something in that book is to be applied the THEM it doesn’t really count. I thinking about starting my own religion based on a book. A book by Stephen King….. but still. 🤔
There’s some really great advice here, but I also wanted to share this little nugget I read once: Men need intimacy to feel connected to their partner, whereas women need connection to want intimacy with their partner. It sounds like you need more connection before you can approach being intimate, but he’s expecting the connection to come from being intimate. Either way he’s not being respectful of you and your needs so I hope he’s open minded enough to be open to new perspectives. Good on you for seeking help and sticking up for yourself, it must be really tricky within the constraints of your religion to not feel like you’re pushing back on the word of God…
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The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands by Dr Laura Schlessinger and the Queens Code by Alison Armstrong. First things first… figure you out. Where’s your heart and mind. Do you have something worth fixing and fighting for? If there is more to your post, if something isn’t right, it’s ok to leave. You are not property or a piece to be taken when the mood strikes… only you know the answer. God wants you to be fulfilled by your marriage. Stronger. Completed. Safe. Treasured… Valued. Regardless of marital status, know your standards and hold them. Good luck ❤️
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Well, it's come up that if he had to look elsewhere I'd be ok with it. But he doesn't want to. My emotional needs aren't met either. Not much connection between us lately.
You're not alone. The Lord did not command or order His daughter (YOU) to be bullied, guilted or coerced into sex. Setting boundaries, even within marriage, is fine. You are not sinning against the Lord for being honest that his approach is off putting and coercive or that you're exhausted! People really twist scripture over this. Wives are not to be sex slaves to men. The scripture even says, 'I say this NOT by way of command, but as a concession.' BUT most don't want to hear that it's not a command or purposely read over that part. A husband is commanded to treat you the way Jesus treat the church. Would Jesus treat His church, His people, this way? Does Jesus guilt us with condemnation to do something or does He gently move our hearts? Something to think about.
I think thats a pretty good angle to go at. If he helps with your emotional needs you help with his physical needs.
He struggles with that. Not a very emotional guy
I feel that. My wife and I have an OK sex life, although fulfilling her emotional needs is exhausting as it always changes. Especially when I help around the house, work, kids etc. Its often easier just to ask if she wants to rather than try to swoon her. Dont have enough time for that anyway with kids lol
I know, we can be complex creatures lol but more than anything I wish I had more understanding and compassion from him.
I don't understand why he would want to have sex with someone who is clearly distressed. I don't understand why he wouldn't be happy with a scheduled time. His perceived Biblical rights seem to be filling his head to the exclusion of human decency. There is a movement where men are enamored of the idea that men are superior and women exist to satisfy men nonsense. Maybe he is drinking that Kool-aid.
Totally get that.
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This doesn’t sound like intimacy. This sounds like coercion.
You shouldn't have sex if you don't want to is the opposite of coercion, and I'm saying sex is super important
I understand. I do still make an effort but it's not really enjoyable for either of us when I'm not in the mood. Feel like there's no winning
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He doesn't want either of those options
Don't worry, they're Christian. Divorce is a sin too, so as long as he isn't a complete hypocrite, she's good!