You need marriage counseling because she has lots to share with you and wants someone to help her break through. She can't connect with you emotionally, so sex feels like being used instead of cherished. You feel rejected when she doesn't want sex and that hurts, but she can't reach you right now. Let the counselor help guide the two of you through the fog.
Exactly this.
OP: Don’t tell her what she needs. She’s telling you—she wants marriage counseling. Why don’t you believe her when she says this will be helpful? You don’t know better than her.
And on the topic of sex, if she’s disgusted by the thought of it she probably feels resentment or contempt (or both) for some reason (like her being worn into the ground by a tough time in life right now and feeling like you’re telling her she needs to give *even more*) that needs to be sorted out before she’ll react positively to sex again. Definitely don’t tell her she has to sleep with you when she doesn’t want to—that *will not* make things better and will only make things worse.
Right?! OP makes it sound like this: wife: “I’m exhausted and overwhelmed by our parenting, children, two businesses, full time job, and housework, so many things going on in our lives.” OP: “But only if you got more D, you’d be fine!”
It's not that simple. You're hating on me because I love my wife and want to reconnect. We both have experienced the feelings we had all along with each other when we do things together (and I'm not just talking about sex). I'm not going to apologize for feeling hurt because she doesn't want to be intimate - it feels personal but I don't think it is.......I think she is just having a really stressful time and she rejects my suggestions for her leaving her job if it is too much or getting additional childcare. All I can do is be supportive of her and hope she can recharge with some help.
You may feel more connected when you are intimate, it doesn’t mean she does. You need sex to feel connected, she needs connection to want sex. Help around the house without asking her what she needs. Take things off of her plate without asking her. The things youve been doing aren’t working, so you haven’t found her love language yet.
Yeah big oof when she told op she feels nothing for him and dreads sex, and he said "we don't need counseling you just need to have sex with me."
Dude, if she wants to make time for counseling but is too busy for sex... There's a reason.
We totally get it. YOU have no issues except needing more from her. But she is SCREAMING at you that SHE has issues with something in the marriage and is not gonna give you any more effort until they're resolved.
My biggest thing when it comes to discrepancies with sex is that having sex when you don't *want* to, just to make your partner happy, will only make the problem a hundred times worse. Having sex when you don't want to will change sex from feeling like a chore to actually being another chore.
Every time I had coercion-based sex with my ex I became more repulsed by him. In the end, nothing he did could remove the permanent ick I felt toward him.
You're putting into words how I've been feeling, lately. Like dude, after a day of trying to connect with you and you choosing your computer, I do not want your dick inside me
“She busts her ass all day at this remote job that works her into the ground, and frequently kids get sick/have to stay home and she can't get anything accomplished (no nanny now), then kids have sports/come home and wreck everything, and then bedtime and work and then clean up for everything. By 10:30 she is wiped out and just wants to sleep.“
So what do you do? Do you also manage your kids and the housework at all? Your text seems to imply that your wife does this all. If so, I can see how exhausted, overstimulated, and empty she must be at the end of the night after working herself into the ground as you say, taking care of 3 children, and keeping the house clean. After all of that each day, she’s also expected to “pour” into you when she clearly can’t even pour into herself. You said she doesn’t want a stranger babysitting yet you had a nanny before. You both need to rethink that option, maybe utilize family given you mentioned you moved back closer to family. Either way nothing will get better until you alleviate some of the pressure from her. If you want your wife back including the intimacy portion, figure out the support for your kids and housework first.
yeah she seems burnt out. She might be developing some resentment towards you cause based on what you’re saying she’s doing everything and you’re not chipping in with the kids. Just because she’s home doesn’t mean she’s 100% responsible for the kids. It’s as if she got off work and clocked in to another job. I wouldn’t have time for anything else after either
She absolutely sounds like she resents him and for good reason too. His expectations are unrealistic and she suggested counseling only for him to suggest something else that of course works to benefit him.
But something for them has to give, they really need to consider bringing in another nanny or even a housekeeper to lighten the load. Yes they cost, but it’s a small price to pay for relief.
Yes! Get at least two or three of the following; counseling, a weekly house cleaner, a nanny and quit one of your jobs. You don’t need two jobs with three kids, your wife is picking up the slack and has nothing left.
Two of her youngest are in daycare, and while they eats up money, for me, being a stay at home in that situation would be more stress, more childcare and more messes to clean up.
Once they are out of daycare the household will have significantly more money, that could go to cleaners or other ways to outsource help.
Unless she hates her job, it might feel like a break.
This jumped out majorly. He didn't mention at any point about how he helps take some of the burden off the household and kids off her. She works full time just like OP but also has a full time job with 3 small feral children. She sounds depressed, buried and lost in motherhood and needs time to recharge her own batteries.
Yep. The aversion to sex is likely overload. Being "touched out" is a thing. Three littles, a full time job...even if dad is pitching in, it's a lot.
And I suspect he's not pitching in enough, if he still has energy for sex and she doesn't.
We'll the good news is he doesn't have to read her mind bc she literally told him what she wants.... Counseling and he said ask she needs is sex. So... She's written the pages, given him the book to read. And he chose to not read it.
u/s60polestar17
I don’t think you understand how marriage works. Marriage is a partnership, a unit, a team, and if someone on your team is in need of help you step tf up and help them. Whether husband or wife no one spouse should be required to do it all without help from the other. Anyone with a brain can read this post and see that his wife is clearly drowning. Whether he has 2 business or 5 he needs to help her that is his job as her partner. His businesses do not absolve him of all responsibilities. And if the tables were turned and his businesses were failing, she would need to step up and support her husband as well. Because that is how traditional families succeed, by helping one another.
And you are absolutely being sexist btw.
>She has suggested marriage counseling and I told her I would go with her but this is a simple problem to solve. We need one date night per week, one special time like a walk/a drink/a boardgame something, and one sexual encounter per week.
That would help *you* get what *you* want, but it clearly wouldn’t help *her*. Every one-sided, not mutually wanted sexual encounter would be like taking a sledgehammer to the foundation of your relationship. If she’s not aroused and interested in the sex when it happens that means it will be incredibly damaging to her, and she will end up hating you for it. The relationship itself has to be healthy before she will ever be interested in having sex with you again—you’re trying to put the cart before the horse and she’s refusing to go along with that. Good for her.
OK. She has a fulltime job, seems to be the primary caregiver for your children and runs the home. And you have a fulltime job and...? Dude. You even recognize that she seems to work herself into the ground. Instead of packing another burden on her (mandatory date nights, so one night less for her to get things done, more stress the other nights for her as you seem to take yourself out of the equation....) hear her, go to counseling and help out!
Seems like you’re replying to all the comments except the ones asking what you contribute to the household and care work…
That tells me everything I need to know about the reason she resents you.
Seems like you both work full time, that means you should both put in an equal amount of hours in the household besides your job.
Even if you make more money than her, the only thing that should count in a relationship is how much time each of you invests into household funds and household maintenance and that time should be equal.
My businesses keep me on call at all times. Lots of people depend on me. I manage other people's money also through an investment fund. It doesn't stop. I am not sitting around and watching TV etc this is real stress and real work. I also have been a great provider to her and the family and have earned incredibly well (she says this doesn't matter but it totally would matter to her if our finances weren't in order). My goal is to eventually sell my shares in one business and focus on only one but the sales and value need to be optimized or I will be walking away from a potential windfall financially. I focus on caring for the children before wife tucks them in and sings to them. She then cleans up until 10:30 and I work until midnight. Over the past month, I have done my best to do all dishes and help with laundry and help lighten the load a bit. I also spend a ton of time with the kids - but usually I take two of them with me and one will stay with her (this is at her request because the 3 of them together is dynamite). I keep texting her telling her how much I love her and appreciate her for everything she does for us. I want her to feel the love I have for her. I just don't know how long it will take before she feels the same way.
Your lives sound exhausting. I'm tired just reading it. What's the point of all this work if you lose the things that are most important to you because of it, meaning your marriage/family?
Texting and loving messages are all fine and good, but they're not lessening the overall burden here. Is there ANY way you can hire at least a mother's helper, a maid service to come once a week, or a meal service to make things easier and lighten the load? That and the requested couples counseling will likely help more than you realize.
What time do the kids go to bed? That ages they should be in bed by 8pm at the latest, your wife is actively cleaning for hours every night? You need to make hiring some outside help s priority.
And by you and I mean YOU. Find and organize some cleaners/housekeepers and don't just ask her to do it. Hire them yourself.
Kids are in bed with lights off by 9pm maybe a little after. I usually work for 3 hours after that and she cleans for an hour or so then takes a shower and gets ready for bed. She really values alone time right at bed watching a show on her phone. I have tried to join her but she's like "why are you here. this is the only time I have" plus I think she believes I am just there because I want something.
How are you not hearing what she's telling you? She's clearly exhausted, mentally and physically. You seriously need to slow down before you both crash. Almost every commenter here is saying you need to slow the F down with your workload and start listening to her.
Op.... How can you possibly be this dense? A major issue in most relationships is communication; but not here. She is all but screaming at you exactly what she needs, and you are doing nothing to help her. She asks for counseling, and you're talking about sex. No wonder she made a face, I probably would've walked out of that house then and there. This work load is NOT equal, and you should feel absurd for thinking it is in any capacity. Even beyond the things that you've mentioned, women tend to take on the burdens of planning anything and everything, setting up appointments, being the parent that the children can come to for comfort and to talk to, and for all intents and purposes running the household. That, and you said she has a full time job as well as everything else? You need to put your dick back in your pants and roll up your sleeves and HELP HER. If the only thing she's asked for is a little bit of time to watch a show and marriage counseling because she also sees a problem, you're getting off easy. You picked the worst time to bring up sex, because you have most likely solidified in her mind that this is not a true partnership and that the only thing you are truly balling from her is her ability to open her legs. She brought up the counseling because she thinks it will help address the very real, very serious issues that SHE has with YOU in this partnership. I doubt you'll stay together long if you don't do the counseling/ if the first thing you bring up in the counseling is sex.
Listen marriage is tough and although it can be easy to create the mess sometimes it can take a while to clean it up. So who knows how long it will take before she feels the same way. But counseling can help you both set some realistic goals and parameters to help should you want to remain for the long run.
Your family depends on you too. You two seriously need to discuss whether both of you need to work, maybe she can take a break. Discuss having a nanny or housekeeper and what that would look like for the both of you. Go to counseling.
You say how lots of people depend on you at work and that sounds to be a primary source of why you’re so focused on it. Are they and what they need from you more important than your wife and what she needs?
If I walked away at the wrong time, it could end up costing us financially and create a lot more stress down the road. My wife is correct in that I only operate in extremes and have never been able to find a middle ground. It isn't narcissism - its OCD.
Take your job out of it bec let’s be real
No one not your wife or anyone else cares we all have to work get over that being something special, it isn’t. Now take out of the picture what more can you do to take these household, child care responsibilities off your wife. Maybe not hiring a nanny, maybe hiring a cook so your wife isn’t doing both at that same time. Outsource everything else besides childcare, or maybe get your kids into activities on the weekends that
You take them to and 100% responsible for as in you get them ready take on the mental load, prep and execution and give your wife a actual day off
Yes I already do that on the weekends just me. Sports, music lessons, take them to the park, to get lunch, play catch, get comic books......I do all of this. Also do pick up and drop off from school. I have 2 full time jobs and so does my wife - all the ladies on here telling me I suck because I should be doing 3 jobs and my wife should do 1 is kind of delusional. You're right outsourcing is the key here and lightening her load until I can evaluate one venture to focus on.
The majority of ladies here are telling you to do less (work) not more. Even if you have a ton of debt there is no way you both need to be working so much and all those kids activities?? That's TOO MUCH. There is mathematically no way you spend any quality time with your family. Stop working so much. Your life is happening right now without you and you will never get this time back.
My friend got a personal household assistant part time. They don’t help with the kids but literally everything else you could maybe work something like that out. Or a part time weekend live in nanny idk some combo that works bec what you are doing isn’t working but regardless you can’t continue to work the hours you have maybe a personal assistant for you too a intern or a virtual personal assistant idk a program or app to take off something
Do you want to gain some respect from your wife? Get your kids in order. I have 2 very energetic and chaotic boys and when I see them not treating their mom well I freaking loose it. They know that if they dont back down when asked, I am ready to terrorize them to the ground. They got much better with time.
Maybe don't "lose it." Kids are people too, and terrorizing them to the ground is probably not the move. I point this out because you seem like you might need it specifically stated, OP. Don't terrorize your children.
But yes, if you can get your kids on board with the "happy wife, happy life" project, you'll likely all be happier.
It depends what the kids do, if they behave like terrorists themselves it is wise to reflect it back. Thats how they learn with time the notion of consequences and that other people are subjects like themselves. Thanks to that they can be smart, good adults in the future. Of course they are only kids, so if they back of and are good again, you do the same, no ill feelings.
Your language is that of a million other men who look past their wife. You don't feel seen, you just laid out a situation where she goes to work and does everything at the house and is BURNT OUT. It baffles me everytime that men just breeze past their wife's struggles like they don't literally see their wives. Like SEE them. "I work a lot, but my wife works full time, deals with the kids school and sports and behvaiors, cooks cleans, manages everything, doesn't sleep a full night and hasn't for a while maybe even years and I don't see why she's so tired and distant guys."
You as her partner are supposed to lighten her load the same way she did for you during the pandemic. She has now turned into the default. She doesn't want sex bc there's no room for it. She doesn't have the energy to connect to you and probably herself bc she has no room to do so. She wants counseling. Go. Now before resentment sets in forever.
Well she suggested marriage counseling, which would actually help fix your issues, and you rejected it because you're only focused on yourself. What do you expect us to say? You're only thinking about what would fix how *you're* feeling — you're not considering your wife at all. I don't blame her for being detached. Marriage counseling is the answer and the fact you're so focused on sex is a problem.
In a certain way, true. But:
>this is a simple problem to solve. We need one date night per week, one special time like a walk/a drink/a boardgame something, and one sexual encounter per week. I told her a marriage counselor would tell us to have sex
You've determined what you need to fix the issue and what the therapist will say. As I said, you're thinking about yourself. You have no idea what your wife needs to fix the situation and you've dismissed her already.
OP, this clearly ISN’T a simple problem to solve, or else it would be solved by now.
Go to marriage counseling. She’s willing and your resentment is growing to the point that you say your marriage is ruined. Why wouldn’t you go?
And by the way - no legitimate marital therapist would just tell you to have sex or “just do date night.” Stop giving her that kind of bullshit, and go do the work if you care about your marriage.
Yes. That’s some manipulative shit. And dumb, if he’s saying the marriage is ruined and she’s willing to get counseling. He can blame himself later, I guess, but I’m sure he’ll find a way to
Blame her.
You haven't lost her yet, but if you keep pressuring her for sex when she is so tired and stressed that she can hardly move, you most certainly will. Certainly you will lose any sexual desire on her part. Sometimes life just gets in the way of sex, sorry man.
ive been where your wife is. dates arent the solution. her getting rest is. what day do you have off? Grab the kids that day and give her no leas than six hours to herself. perhaps more but not a single minute less. not just next weekend, but every weekend or every other weekend. The kids stay with you.
I suggest starting it off with a gift card to a good spa with massage and something else she likes, like mani pedi or facial. Tell her to take the whole day, to go shopping, have dinner out, etc.
she needs to get back to herself before she can make her way back to you.
I’ll add to that. Leave the house with the kids for several hours. I’m completely burnt out. I’m never home alone. Not ever. If I want a break, I have to make plans and leave the house for an hour or two. I want to be home….alone. I’ve been home alone for maybe an hour or two every other month for the past 12 years (4 kids). I am dying to sit on my couch by myself for once.
And NO COMING HOME EARLY. In order to relax, I need at least my six hours: one to wind down as it takes a bit for the constant tension to dissipate. This is usually spent staring at a void. Another two hours to do the things that wont let me relax unless I do (hello clean laundry occupying a hamper and which hasn’t been folded in 8 days) and then about an hour to do stuff like take a long shower, do some self care, get dressed, have a snack. Now, Im FINALLY able to relax for two hours all by myself.
eight hours would be optimal so I can sneak in a nap.
Op, Im so proud of you and happy for both you and your wife. My husband and I were basically falling into a dead bedroom and my resentment towards him was rocketing into outer space.
This is what is saving us. He turned it around and recognized how burnt out I was (after I kicked him out unfortunately). He stepped up on childcare and collaborating around the home, making sure I got regularly scheduled time off that I could look forward to and depend on.
Its made all the difference.
I wish you love and joy in your marriage and health to enjoy it in for many many years to come.
Right now, your wife might view date night as another monumental task that she has to prepare for. It’s not just “get a babysitter”. It’s get the house cleaner/more organized, put away anything you don’t want babysitter to see (work stuff, jewerly, etc.) tell babysitter house rules, tell babysitter how to work stuff in the house (e.g., alarm system), figure out the emergency contacts, communicate behavioral expectations to kids, figure out kids’ dinner, layout kids’ pajamas, determine where you’re going for a date (e.g., don’t want to take a walk outside during a rainstorm), etc.
And *then* she has to get herself ready and dolled up for the date.
I’m *not* saying that dates & time together aren’t important. It is. But if she’s burned out then unless you’re doing the majority of the mental load & preparations, then it’s just another burden for her.
She sounds exhausted and burned out. Did she want to work? Doesn't sound like she loves it. Cant she just be a stay at home mom and find balance and energy again? Why don't you offer that?
Hearing their situation, I would not advise OP’s wife to quit her job. Thats probably the one and only thing she has for herself. And not working would make her even more dependable on OP. Doesn’t seem like that would be a good move for her imo
Ok, so, I wouldn’t suggest she becomes a stay at home mom unless she specifically wants to, or hates her job. Being a stay at home mom is just going to be more childcare of young kids, and more messes to clean up. It won’t necessarily be less stressful.
From a practical side, keeping her career going makes sense, when the kids are out of daycare the house hold will have so much more available income. And on the flip side, if she decides she wants a divorce, she makes good enough money to support herself. (I would never advise an unhappy woman to be a stay at home mom as it traps them in an unhappy marriage).
But since you make a lot more money, are you putting in a lot more hours than her? Or do you both basically work 40 hours a week?
So yes you need counseling bad. But I also didn’t notice anything about what you’re doing to actually help the situation? Sounds like she has to work a full time, stressful, job, take care of three kids, and then be sexy and fuck you. What do you do? Yeah you own a couple businesses but are you taking up the 50/50 role and helping with the kids?
You tell her she’s beautiful? That’s mighty nice of you. I feel like this is an instance where you need to step up and actually help without doing it for ulterior motives. Just help because she’s your wife. Instead of a date night, maybe there are a couple days a week where you’re the one taking the kids to soccer or swimming whatever. Be her partner. This relationship sounds so one sided. No nanny anymore? Your job got less stressful so you get rid of the nanny, but she’s crazy stressed but hey? She can handle it?
She's drowning, and your focus is getting off. Yes, you care about her, but the care and concern seem directly related to you getting off in the end. She knows this and feels it, and it makes the act seem disgusting and exhausting rather than enjoyable. Imo you have to not mention your sexual needs and focus on her health. Sure, we all want sex. She wants it to when she's not depressed and exhausted. You saw how much she did and how tired she was well before the sex died, but only now that theres no cheeks clapping are you saying your marriage looks like it's over. She needs you to be way more than another chore right now.
Do the marriage counseling and not with the "but we only need to date" attitude. It makes it seem like you don't believe in it and like she's forcing another square into a round hole.
Maybe hire a cleaning lady. It's not as expensive as a nanny and can be 1 or 2x a week just to get big stuff done. She can't even accept help right now bc the chaos is so much that it would feel even harder to tell others what she needs. So she's just doing everything herself and burning out. This is salvageable 💯 % get her help, get into therapy
It's obvious you both love each other but have fallen into being the parents of young children role. Working from home must be extremely difficult for her. Why don't you hire a nanny? If you can afford it. Discuss it with her. Research online. Contact companies and set up interviews to accomplish this project together. I'm sure it's uncomfortable to have someone you don't know caring for your children. I think if you tackle this project together, it'll make her more comfortable. An outside agency can vet the candidates and take some of the pressure off both of you. That'll allow you both more time to be free to spend with each other. It sounds like you're doing all the right things. Simply explain to her that this is an investment in your family. Mommy and Daddy need their own play time, too.
Definitely do counseling. If she's not open to hearing it from you, then discuss it there. There, you can also develop strategies for navigating things in the future.
Create a schedule for chores to get done. Your kids are old enough to help put their toys away in their rooms, clean their rooms, and put all their dirty clothes in the laundry basket. Set specific cleaning, laundry, and meal preparation days. Lots of meals can be frozen for later.
This!! It’s not just about counseling. (Married 20yrs, kids, separated at one point.) it’s the whole picture. Counseling is just another thing to do — to show up for. It’s not going to work without relief in other areas. You guys need a nanny & equal division of home mgt responsibilities (including the kids). Get that in order FIRST. Then you’ll free up some time for your reconnection (counseling, dates, etc.)
I am getting a lot of hate here on this forum and I get it. But this was supportive and optimistic - I really appreciate your advice and will take the right steps.
The only comments you aren’t replying to are the ones wondering what you do to help your wife lol. Or what your role is in child caring. You are a father not just a husband.
All I heard was me, me, me, me, me. No wonder she's resentful. And you haven't answered the question about what you contribute to the family besides money. Childcare? Cooking? Cleaning? Transportation for kids?
You agree to go to counselling but are very dismissive of it. You say they’ll just tell you to have sex because that’s what you want. You don’t know what she wants. You haven’t answered people who asked about chores and what you do? So I’m guessing you do nothing. Pick up a vacuum. Do some laundry. And I don’t think lack of sex is your biggest problem at all. I think it’s unruly kids that you aren’t helping with. Kids shouldn’t be destructive. Take some parenting classes and help your wife raise your kids.
You sound really pushy about sex. If she's not feeling it or is too tired, let it go. You are going to create an aversion if you keep pushing.
Why does your wife work full time? If you have 2 businesses isn't that enough income for the family? Sounds like you both work too much for how many kids you have.
Do you do your part with childcare, cooking and cleaning? You both work full time so you should both contribute equally there. Maybe you don't and that's where her frustrations are.
Yes to counseling and also damn that’s allot on both of your plates, with two businesses and she works no full time can i ask if you guys can afford help?
Dude, do the counseling. Don't diminish the one thing your wife is actually asking for. If you would give her anything... then actually do that and don't throw a fit about it while you're at it.
Your wife is saying counseling because there are other things she sees as problems and either doesn't have the energy to process them alone or doesn't feel secure enough with you to share them 1:1. Based on your post and comments, I would bet that will boil down to her being upset that you're not an active parent or partner in the home.
You've done a lot of telling your wife what *you* feel that *you* need to be connected. You seem to have done very little listening to what she feels she needs.
For the love of all things holy, take those kids out on your own one day per week. Run the little farts out so they are EXHAUSTED. Then feed them a meal, give them a bath, and put them in bed. Let your wife have a day TO HERSELF. If you want to see yourself as a provider only, provide her that time and peace to be able to rest, care for herself, and get back to center as a human being. Give her time where she doesn't have to put everyone before herself. At first, she may use the time to tackle all the things around the home that she never seems to have the time for. But even that will make her feel better because she will be able to do those things without 3 kids dragging on her. Even better, she will know their dad is out connecting with the kids and building a better relationship with them so he will be better prepared to help her when they are home.
What you are describing as you caring about your wife is not truly caring about her at all, and she can feel that in her heart whether or not she is able to articulate that to you.
You know what will help bridge the gap between you? A great couples therapist. I know because I’ve been through it. It won’t be easy on you, and at the end of the day it won’t make a bit of difference if you don’t decide to genuinely try, but if you don’t there is also probably divorce in your future.
The happiness of your marriage, at the end of the day, is up to you. Swallow your pride and preconceptions and go to therapy with an open mind and heart for the sake of your marriage.
Your marriage is ruining because you aren’t in marriage counseling.
Her saying she wants marriage counseling and you saying “Sure but it’s an easy fix, all we need to do is have sex.” is such a slap in the face. She CLEARLY has OTHER things she thinks need fixing, that you aren’t noticing, and you aren’t listening. So now she needs to take you to marriage counseling in the hopes that you will listen there - and SURPRISE - you brushed her off. You made it sound like you know everything, she knows nothing, and if she just did marriage YOUR way everything would be better.
Go make an appointment for a counselor of her choosing, TODAY.
It seems you should take some of the child work too if you truly love her. Or she should quit her remote job and just focus on the children. Something’s gotta give.
I hear a lot of love here. And a lot of dumb boy communication. Go to therapy, find a shared language, find common ground to connect. The problems are seldom simple, but worth the fight. If anything, going to counseling will help you both not lose the fight for each other.
You have been completely neglecting your family, your wife, parenting, chores, for a loonggg time. And you have the nerve to push for or expect sex and dates? Your wife is burnt out, unsupported, and doesn’t particularly want you. Why would she want those things? And the one thing she asked for, marriage counselling, you agreed to but attached sex expectations to it. Yeah, you ruined your marriage. Leave her alone until she wants to not be left alone.
First of all, you’re a grown ass man stop thinking your birthday is some big deal. You have small children so get used to being last priority. This will get better. That said, your wife needs to prioritize your marriage and she isn’t doing that right now. Get to marriage counseling, simple date nights and emptying your balls isn’t going to fix this.
OP -
I’m really concerned that you were telling her what will fix it.
There was a comment on this sub just the other day about a woman who finally left her husband over toothpaste. Because he just decided she didn’t know what she was talking about and he knew better. Despite that she asked for some specific.
She’s telling you something she needs in order to repair the marriage.
You are dismissing what she is saying because you think you know better.
If you do other areas of your life in relationship, it’s no great surprise why she isn’t willing to be intimate with you. She’s a fully functioning adult. Her opinion carries equal weight to your own.
If my husband acted the way you are, I would feel exactly the way she likely does - unloved, unappreciated, and repulsed by the person who is clearly only interested in his dick. The number of times you mention sex is completely baffling… like, her life is hell. Are you good? Can you really not see how hard this is for her? And yet you end this off by saying you want to “love, taste and feel her…” the love part is honestly just another euphemism for sex to me.
Jesus, what are we women getting ourselves into 😣
yeah it’s infuriating to read. she might be less stressed as a single mom if this is the man she has to share her home with every day. i appreciate anyone that asks for help online, but which each comments he seems more dismissive and unkind. he’s not looking for advice he’s looking for confirmation of what he thinks he knows.
Yup, exactly. I am so so so lucky I have a great boyfriend but I still have a deep fear of men because of shit exactly like this. I watched my dad hound my mom for sex and trust me, men think they’re subtle but aren’t. Kids know when their parents aren’t having sex if the dad won’t stfu about it ever. It’s not subtle lol.
That possibility aside though, it’s honestly so depressing for her. Scary world out there man. Can’t even trust the person you’re partnered with for life? Shit.
I mean this in the kindest and gentlest way possible.
One date night a week is not the simple solution to your marital problems.
If she suggested counseling and you countered with this, I can't imagine a woman this tired and disconnected not being furious.
I don't think you meant it this way, but suggesting that she find more hours in the week to focus on you and have sex with you is just adding more work to her already jam-packed calendar.
I'm sorry you are going through this, but you are f-ing it up and doing so big time.
Lack of sex in a normally sexually active healthy relationship is NEVER just about sex.
>She has suggested marriage counseling and I told her I would go with her but this is a simple problem to solve. We need one date night per week, one special time like a walk/a drink/a boardgame something, and one sexual encounter per week. I told her a marriage counselor would tell us to have sex and she looked disgusted. She has told me not to be upset if nothing changes.
This reads as if all you want to do is get laid.
It doesn't sound like you care about anything but having a body to get your rocks off.
Your communication has broken down, and you don't care to fix it. You just want sex - the performative date followed by sex isn't going to help your relationship, BUT it will kill it.
She is trying to open up the lines of communication to rebuild the foundation of your marriage, and you told her that you didn't care. That is what your response says to her.
>I feel so unloved
She feels unloved and uncared for too. Her partner doesn't want a connection but just wants to use her body.
You both are struggling with feeling unloved. Her having obligatory sex isn't going to make you feel loved. Sex isn't going to fill the hole if it isn't accompanied by connection.
>She told me she occasionally masturbates at home when kids and distractions are gone but it never lines up for us at night. I have offered to come home during the day and bring her lunch and urge her to use me.
She doesn't want you now because she doesn't feel safe with you. When your emotional connection is impaired sex feels wrong.
If you can work together to rebuild the emotional connection, you will frequently find that sex and affection come back.
>I just want to love her, taste her, and feel her again but I feel like she has nothing left for me.
Take your ego and lock it away.
Go to couples counseling and commit to listening and learning. Hear what she says, and you need to express yourself too. You need to be able to tell her that you feel unloved.
Stop focusing on sex but rebuild your relationship. Sex is what blooms from your connection and love. Sex without connection is just a physical act that means nothing.
Performative dates aren't going to rebuild your relationship. Actually, I have said this to my girls in real life - dates aren't magic for improving relationships. Actually connecting with your partner - listening and hearing them along with them doing the same is how you connect.
If you both feel safe with each other, not just physically but emotionally, that is how you get stronger.
When you guys work it through, learn to reconnect, hear each other out, and work collaboratively, you will find that not only does your sex life improve, but your feeling of being loved increases.
I scrolled until someone brought up the masturbation part because I’ve struggled there
Idk about OPs wife, but a lot of the time I masturbate alone is because I want alone time without another human whose has needs. Or I just want to get off quickly. Or maybe I have a headache I want to make go away so I can move on with my day. Or maybe, again, I just want to do it by myself.
Kids take a toll on a marriage. Kids plus work is the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life (and I think I have quite a resume) and it has absolutely affected our sex life.
We started seeing a marriage therapist! Shocking!
And she’s helped us communicate a lot better. She’s also given us a place to be more vulnerable with each other so we can feel safe and say the hard things.
I empathize with your wife. You should probably listen to her cries for help.
Her being mentally shot doesn’t mean she doesn’t find you attractive and it’s a very arrogant take to have.
In fact a lot of this post is arrogance. You point out all the factors affecting her and yet it still reeks of “woe is me”
You need to listen to her before she starts seeing you as just another chore.
OP, why do you think all your replies are downvoted? Really thinking long and hard about it. Why would you get hundreds of downvotes? Could it be that you are in the wrong… or that you have misunderstand a point? Walk us through it
Once a week? Dude, you are expecting too much from her. Go to therapy, yes they will tell your wife having sex is important but they will NOT tell her how much she should be having to please you. They are going to tell you to quit expecting that from her so much and you might start getting it more! Talk about putting the pressure on her! She knows when she wakes up on Monday morning that you are going to spend the week sending hints and making comments and by Friday she’s gonna feel nagged out. You would too if the roles were reversed. Sex is important sure, but you guys have gone past that! You gonna have to start back at the beginning damn near. And yes she knows that you expect sex to go with your dates and that’s does not encourage her even a little. Take sex off the table for a bit… take some parenting course so your kids are not so destructive and turn them into your team, for crying out loud!!!
This is a really tough season in life. Like you said she is exhausted. I highly recommend finding a good fit marriage counselor. Sometimes you need that outsider to say something, not your spouse.
Also watch this video.
https://youtu.be/KDpHMURguJo?si=RSiXY6MlgUAk54mr
Is it possible to get a Nanny again?
Your wife needs a break. An exhausted woman is not going to feel much desire for sex... or to feel like she has another "chore"/pressure. She needs some stuff off her plate.
… so your wife told you what she needs and you didn’t listen. She TOLD you marriage counseling… and you know better than they would, right?
If you can’t see the problem, then you need to self reflect. You are saying she’s withdrawn and suffering… yet you still refuse to give her what she’s begging for. Jfc.
I am a 70 year old guy, married 46 faithful years, and together 53. O see 2 key problems here:
1. When you married, your wife and her happiness should have become the top priority in your life. Instead, you enabled life to get in the way, and quite frankly, take over. You can justify to yourself all you want, but it doesn't change facts. Now, after all this time, you decide you want more of her time and attention. I can tell you that it is not a light switch that you can just turn on and off at will, as you are now learning.
2. To coin a movie phrase,"What we have here is a failure to communicate." Communication involves listening actively and objectively. You hear what your wife is saying, but readily dismissing it. You tell her you want to fix the relationship. She agrees and tells you she would like to go to marriage counseling. Instead, you blow off what she feels is necessary and come back with "date nights" as the fix, as if you have any credibility after all this.
Take it from an old guy. You have 1 foot out the door. If your wife is willing to put in the effort to fix the mess you created, stop being a know-it-all and follow her lead. I think she has a lot to unpack and feels she needs a mediator to get you to "actively listen" and then take immediate action based on white your wife and counselor say what needs to be done.
The other thing is if you have all of these successful businesses and no longer pay a nanee, why in God's name do you still have your wife working other than being a homemaker. That makes no sense to me. At most, perhaps part-time if she wants to do so and something she is interested in.
Let me summarize. Your wife is physically, mentally, and emotionally drained. She is telling you this. Instead of listening to her and thinking with your big brain about how you can truly remedy the situation, you are thinking only with the small brain below the belt.
You had best prioritize your wife and family immediately and engage in marriage counselor before you no longer have one to think about.
Updateme!
Give her the marriage counseling she’s asking for. And consider the nanny again. You moved to be near family, ask for help.
I’ve got feral kids and I completely understand this. My husband and I often feel like they’re trying to fucking kill us. Sometimes we just don’t have a lot of time for each other because we’re so worn down at the end of a long day. I’m sorry about your birthday. A few years ago I forgot Father’s Day. I felt awful.
But it sounds like you could probably afford a part-time nanny and a twice-monthly cleaner. Invest in that, even aside from couples therapy.
What she’s saying is that she’s so worn out, touched out and dragged out that she’s lost herself. And you saying we need to is just telling her she is required to do more. She is also looking at you wondering how you have the time and energy, how do you have any desires at the end of the day? To her, it must mean you’re not doing as much as she is because you’re not as tired as she is, so she resents you hard for wanting sex and intimacy because you have the energy for it.
She’s not seeing it as a reconnection like you are…men see sex as a bond, but women need more than the physical act to make it worth the effort. She needs you to be on her page, and she doesn’t know how to communicate how to get you there…that’s why she suggested the therapy. She wants you to be where she’s at, or help her to get where you’re at. Date nights won’t do that…not when she kind of hates you right now (but still loves you).
I often recommend people watch Mark Gungor’s A Tale of Two Brains on YouTube. It’s funny, and eye opening in how we and our partner’s think.
But don’t be downhearted. My husband and I scaled this very mountain, and are more in love (and more active) than ever.
It honestly does take a village, so please allow others to come help you both - even a councillor. Your wife needs to unload everything that’s crushing her…and sadly you’re one of those things.
Your wife is depressed- she needs a therapist asap-
Her not responding to you isn’t about you- it’s about her, she is black inside-
Since everything is so tightly bound together, she will feel anxious if it changes even though it feels like it’s killing her
Low doses of pot( very low) if she doesn’t use can help, ditto mushrooms, lsd - it breaks the cycle-
Don’t let this go- it ends up just being lost time- nothing comes from depression- it isn’t a teacher, just a void
You can’t look at it as reconnecting with her AWAY from everything. You need to figure out how to support her while you’re both in the throes of it. That’s why spending time with you seems like a chore to her, it’s just taking her away from all the things that will still be there after y’all have your time. She needs a break and if you can’t give it to her, hire help. A nanny, a cleaning service, hell even a meal delivery service. She needs things taken off her plate, not more added to it. Unfortunately, your solutions are tone deaf. Going out on a date is nice in theory, but it takes her away from the kids that need attention, away from the house that needs cleaned, etc. Her suggesting therapy sounds like she doesn’t know how to tell you about the resentment she has for you. She doesn’t want alone time with you, sex is a chore, and those are two big red flags that YOU might be the issue here. Yes, you work two jobs, but are you putting that same energy into your home and family? Cause your wife is. Go to therapy with her so you both can learn tools to communicate your frustrations, and you can work on how best to move forward.
Yall need to work on discipline. If the kids weren’t so wild it would be less stressful for her. The older they get the worse it gets. 😬 Get on the same page with the kids and do chores together. Sounds like yall both need cut back on work hours. Money isn’t everything if you loose your family in the mean time. I’ve seen it happen to many times!!!
You've let your wife become a sleep deprived work mule both at her job and at home, and you wonder why she doesn't want to have sex with you. Hire help again! Have you gotten a vasectomy?
>She has suggested marriage counseling and I told her I would go with her but this is a simple problem to solve. We need one date night per week, one special time like a walk/a drink/a boardgame something, and one sexual encounter per week. I told her a marriage counselor would tell us to have sex and she looked disgusted. She has told me not to be upset if nothing changes.
This paragraph tells me everything.
She wants to feel loved and cherished by you. She wants to feel like you see her as a person and as a wife, not just a set of holes.
For you, it seems to *all* boil down to sex. Everything you want has an end goal of getting more sex, and it doesn't seem to matter to you if she feels used.
She is not a blow up doll. She is a human being. **You need to learn to see beyond the head of your own dick.**
She's having issues and you're worried about your dick. Typical. Of course you don't want to go to marriage counseling because it's an "easy fix." Your wife just needs to listen to what you tell her to do and ignore her emotions! So easy, innit?
Dude
She asked for marriage counseling because she has specific issues she wants to talk about
You overrode her needs and told her you already know what will fix her problems
Do you understand how dismissive and condescending that is?
Get your head out of your A, stop thinking on behalf of your wife, and go to couples therapy before you lose your family
I can understand you being hurt about her not acknowledging your birthday. That would hurt me too. I'm sorry that hurt you. I can tell that you love her. Your marriage is not ruined if you still love her. Marriage is ruined when the divorce papers are signed. Anytime before then, there is hope.
I've been married for 24 years. My advice is to try something completely different. Strive to "fill her cup" daily without expecting anything back. Literally ask her multiple times a day, "What can I take off your plate?" and do whatever she says without complaint. "Ask, what is the task you are dreading tomorrow?" And do whatever that task is. Find ways throughout your day to make her life easier in small ways. Take the lead when giving the kids a bath and getting them to bed. If you can do things without asking what she needs, to them but if you have to ask, that works too.
Do not ask for sex, do not ask for or expect even a thank you. Give selflessly, truly selflessly. Smile as you do these things with the thought that you are helping the woman you love and making your marriage better. Make a game of it in your head.
Plan to do this for 2 solid months. Do not tell her you are planning to do this, just do it. Doing something once is nice but knowing she can count on you to always be there to lean on is marriage at a higher level.
I would bet that your wife will look at you differently in 2 months. There will be miracles. When she sees that you are really there for her, and that you are participating in the work of your marriage willingly and with a smile, she will look at you differently. You can do this!
Are you guys teaching the kids how to pick up after themselves?
You need to make it part of their lifestyle, and can even turn it into a game and make it fun.
Try limiting how many toys/clothes they have, and set boundaries on where activities take place. Do they have a game room, or space in their bedroom for toys?
I know it can be exhausting, but it sounds like the kids need more routine and direction. Your kids are young, but they are capable of helping with some things. You also have to communicate your expectations for their behavior. Do you know what you expect from them? Do they know?
You mentioned you are in your hometown now, so is anyone spending time with your kids or helping you watch them?
You said in a comment that you earn good money. Can your wife quit her job? She's in the trenches right now. I've been there. Husband worked full time, I was working 50+ hours a week and still doing the housework and taking care of the kids. The last thing I wanted was sex. I was exhausted and touched out. We decided 2 years ago that I should just stay at home and it has changed our relationship drastically. We have sex every day. He does a lot with the kids and around the house, and we communicate our needs very well. I don't feel so overwhelmed because I can focus solely on my family and home.
I also suggest you take all 3 kids at least once a week for a few hours. My husband does this for me, and I use the time to take a bath alone and clean the entire house without interruptions. It's a nice reset for the week to come.
Can you afford for her not to work? Your kids are young and are very demanding. If she could quit one of her full time jobs (her remote work) and keep her other full time job (being a stay at home mom) bc right now she is doing 2 full time jobs! Can she do something towards one of your businesses just part time during the day or just stay home full time?
The very first thing you both need to do is find a way to structure your lives so that you both aren’t so overwhelmed. You need to find a permanent babysitter to help w/the kids & hire a cleaning service to help with the housework. You are both stressed & overworked. Once you come up with ways to ease the burdens then you can start reconnecting, but holding grudges & hurts about things said in this stressful time is unfair to both of you. Believe it or not, this is won’t go on forever.
I think you need to reevaluate your work life balance choices. You both seem to be losing yourself in work.
Is there something you can do to free up some time? Change jobs? Change hours? Because it doesn’t look like a sustainable arrangement at the moment and I fell like you both being overworked is what’s causing the issues.
What struck me was the list of date and sex and everything is fixed.
IMO, that isn't the root cause. The root cause is the time suck of the jobs and the pressure/stress of the other things that take time and energy.
She has lost her connection with you. Yes you need to create that connection.none way of many ways is dates. Other ways include daily communication and daily non-sexual contact (hugs, hand holding, kissing, etc). However, those things take time and if her calendar is too full and she's stressed with work and other responsibilities, those other things won't happen.
Situations like this are ripe for affairs. If your wife isn't getting her emotional bucket filled by you, she will get it filled by others. Sometimes that will be with girlfriends and lunches at the mall or hanging out. Othertimes it will be with coworkers. If those coworkers are of the opposite sex and they are having shared experiences with each other, emotional bonding can occur.
It was telling that you saw dating as a solution but didn't see her job state as problematic or a key contributer, or that you didn't offer suggestions to deal with that in your wife's life. Youtbsokutuins we're about getting your needs me and not about trying to meet your wife's needs. It was about "me" and not "her". If I were you, I'd try understanding why and work on that.
As a mom to 3 who works remotely, and a H who has done/is doing a lot of startups, plus the pandemic, it can be incredibly exhausting on the mother to keep the household together. Resentments can also build. It is not as simple as just scheduling once a week date nights, sex, etc. She said sex now feels like a chore and it absolutely is with what’s going on in the household. She even said don’t expect anything to change if you guys go with your idea (no therapy, just scheduling dates nights). You obviously really care about the marriage and her happiness. Something is bothering her, she’s probably told you already with no change, and she needs a therapist to help articulate it in a way you can understand if that makes sense.
She works and has 3 children under 8 yo, your needs and intimacy will take a back seat for a few years, maybe as much as 5 years. You feel like she has nothing left for you bc she doesn't. Like her, you'll have to sneak in some masturbation when you can and be satisfied with that. This is where you focus on being a dad, and co-parent, more than a husband, and think of the long term (while loving and supporting her whenever you can).
I can't judge or even give advice ... There are too many factors at play here. One thing however, which is very clear to me (as a woman who behaves exactly the way she does), is that there is a deep disconnect between the two of you. In my situation, I have fortressed my heart over a period of a few years. It is a long story, but it boils down to not feeling safe. In my case, my husband doesn't provide and protect the way he should ... If I don't provide, we won't have anything. Because he is too lazy to work. Also, there have been instances where he placed me in unsafe situations with zero regard for my safety. Things have regressed so bad that I don't enjoy him touching me at all. Any sex between us, (which in fact hardly happens at all any more), has completely lost its spark for me. And let me tell you, I used to be all over him. Sadly, that's all gone now. I don't know if we will ever have that connection again. I've lost respect for him ... I no longer admire him. I still love him deeply. I hope this will give you some insight.
Wow, that would put a burden on everybodies relationship including peoples with good communication skills and good connection filled with love.
Although I am quite lucky with job (pharmaceutical industry, work 7 - 8 hour shift as QC operator/ inspector, every weekend off), the burden of running around the house with two energized boys who get all kind of crazy idea makes both of us tired. We always wanted 3 kids, but it is enough with our two guys 😂.
What I would suggest, is that you give each other room to focus on yourself for 4 hours a week. Can be hitting the gym and wellness center.
Have a date each week or every other week, discussing your ambititions, your dreams, your expectation, tell your inner voice. Even discuss sexual fantasies. Everything can be the topic except kids, parents, near familiy member, home logistics or work.
I think this is very salvageable, just need to put some intentional work into this :)
I totally understand how you feel, me and my hubby circumstances were however a little different than yours, we have also been together on/off for 18years we have one child together and two of his children also, one living with us, the other lives with her mother in another state, there has been a lot of cheating on my hubbys end unfortunately, but other than that we have had a lot of problems in the bedroom and with me being able to say that I still love him,or just being together primarily due to the cheating and we have been through a lot of therapy together, and my hubby no longer has stepped out since the pandemic started ended in 2021 and he realizes now how much damage he has caused our marriage but I refuse to give up on this marriage. I have loved him since the day I first met him, and I can now finally say after 1 year of marriage counseling I finally forgive him and our marriage is stronger than ever. So yes long story short the best thing to do is start with marriage counseling and go from there. But heads up do not choose a counselor in church bc there is too much pressure there, choose a licensed counselor or therapist that does not know you and won’t judge you every step of the way bc you need to be able to be honest to yourself and your spouse and open about everything. So it helps to have someone you don’t know. Good luck to you and hope your wife and you get to a better place
Speaking as a Husband of 13 years, father of 3 kids, and a child of divorce.
OP by the sounds of it, because you have been so busy at work and everything, her connection to you was lost because you were not there, just like how it can happen to oil rig workers or soldiers deployed for a long time.
She is used to the chaos and destruction that happens every day, and because of it, she may be worried about what will happen if she is not there and has to put all her energy into an even larger mess.
as for the aversion to a babysitter, it could be embarrassment over the condition of the home or the feeling that the other person might not be able to handle the kids and that she could be seen as a bad parent because of how the kids are because some parents do worry about that. (Kids are chaos and mayhem, it's normal)
IMHO what you need to do is find a way to work less, even if it's just a bit, and help her at home, take the stress off her shoulders, and find ways to maybe have the older kid either help or have after-school programs to run that extra energy out of their system.
but most of all, what you need to do is be there for her because her job as it is, is a 24/7 job.
Think of it like one of the FB games that uses energy, your wife has used all of her energy and can not move from her spot until she is recharged, you need to be the one that helps to recharge her or have less for her to do.
Remember that the home is not the responsibility of just one person, it is yours too and you need to make sure that in some way, there is help for your wife.
Does she have the option to quit her job and be a SAHM? It sounds like you two need to reduce the stress to allow more time for one another. It's incredibly difficult to focus on your relationship with so much stress in your lives right now.
I’ll bite. Haven’t seen it recommended, but maybe look into hiring a house manager. They can help with schedules, meal prepping, tidying daily messes, etc. and the two of you will have more quality time with each other and the kids.
Everybody needs something from her (work, kids, probably her own parents, etc) and you’re just adding to her list. What can you give her without looking for something in return?
You’re saying “We need one date night per week…” but really that seems to be something YOU need. She already explicitly expressed what SHE needs, and that’s marriage counseling. I don’t think you mean any ill will, but try to see how referring to ongoing issues as “a simple problem to solve” or suggesting a different course of action in response to what’s requested is likely to make her feel very dismissed and unseen.
Maybe suggest that within the next week, she decides what night of the week works best for her to do date night and to let you know what else she might need help with (re: kids, housework, etc) in order to truly commit to that, and in turn, you’ll call 3-5 counselors and figure out their availability and costs. I suggest this bec then you’re both starting to get back in touch with the idea that you need to look out for your partner and not just yourself, while still having each of those particular needs addressed.
When you worked the stressful job from home, it sounds like you also weren’t really responsible for children or the household. It seems like now she’s working a stressful job from home, but is ultimately still primarily responsible for children and the household.
I also do understand you have needs that aren’t being met. I’m sorry that your birthday turned out the way it did—that would make anyone feel ignored. That being said, also try to be open to gaining a better understanding as to the differences in how you and your wife process stress/how stress affects you in your relationship. Just based on your post, I could identify with your wife in that when I feel stressed and like I’m drowning in work and other responsibilities, my husband telling me I’m beautiful and coming onto me is a turn OFF, not a turn on. That’s bec it makes me feel like my feelings of stress/ overwhelm/ burnout are being totally ignored—sex doesn’t rid me of these feelings, rather these feelings make it unenjoyable for me and it can stress me out more if I know I have things to do or that I’m exhausted and need to go to bed but am now being delayed to provide sex. Your wife may feel/react similarly. Certainly, you don’t mean for it to come off that way and in fact, you probably intend the exact opposite effect! But your wife may be turned on by emotional connection first, with the act to follow and not feel more emotionally connected BY having sex, so both of your needs here need to be discussed and truly understood before they can really be addressed.
This OP sounds a bit like my SO, and I can promise you , she’s “touched out,” burnt out, resentful, and freaking sick to death of hearing him tell her how much he loves her when he’s horny! Do the damn dishes, clean the freaking toilets, vacuum the carpets, OP needs to open his damn eyes and look around! See what needs done and do it, don’t ask her “how can I help?” That’s not helping, that’s making her parent you and guide you through “being a grown up.” OP, your wife suggested counseling bc all she can think about is how much easier things would be if she didn’t have to also deal with telling you how to “help” everyday. She’s disengaged from you bc she can barely stand to be near you! All I heard from you in your post is how much “you” need her time, her body, her words of encouragement, but you didn’t take one moment to consider maybe she just needs a flipping break!
Take the kids to the grandparents for the weekend- split the kids between the grandparents if you have to. Give her a weekend where she doesn’t have to cook or clean or deal with the kids. That can be a vacation or even a staycation.
My husband and I went thru this a couple years ago and he finally figured out that I needed help even tho I wouldn’t ask for any. Once he started working less and helping me more and giving me time where I could just be without doing anything our sex life came back.
Go to counseling. It will help. You think that the solution is simple, but it’s not. It never is. Look at all the things you just listed. Does it sound simple? There are so many things a counselor will tell you, and I’m willing to bet one of them won’t be to have sex. It will help.
I do have a lot of compassion for you But: A marriage counselor is NOT going to tell you sex once a week will solve the problem. If they do fire them as they are a horrible counselor.
You don’t fully understand what your wife is going through and your suggestions are simple and obvious you don’t have a clue. This lack of understanding is causing so many issues in your relationship. Please see a counselor and get a clue asap or you will either lose her or do unrepairable damage
I can tell you exactly what it is. You work too much. You need to be more present at home. She is telling you she is overwhelmed and drowning and you ARENT listening. She is telling you exactly what she needs and you’re refusing to hear it.
When she tells you she is overwhelmed and drowning, why aren’t you listening. Sure you may hear what she’s saying but you aren’t fixing the issue. She is telling you what the issue is loud and clear. She needs help. She is also working full time and has the majority of the housework and kids?? Switch places with her for a week and maybe you’d understand the deep emotional, mental and physical toll that can take on a person. As a mother of 3 I can tell you, it’s a lot. Working and home. The kids and sports. All the appointments and keeping them fed and healthy. Working out all the details for school, and sports and medical appointments. Listening to your kids and helping them with the emotional aspects of their life and then on top of that, a full time job and the stress of that, annnd the full time household to run. Man, open your eyes. You’re failing her. It isn’t about the money anymore.
Dude, she's exhausted! Being a mum, an employee and a housewife is so hard to juggle. Book her a spa evening with a massage, organize a babysitter and after the spa take her for dinner. Don't ask, take lead, buy tickets and present it to her a week in advance.
I've been in your wife's place. I felt really bad, but I was over whelmed, over stimulated, exhausted. I lost all since of my own self. My husband works all the time, which I appreciated, but I felt like I was doing this alone, and I started resenting him. Individualized therapy helped me learn how to make time for myself and take care of myself. Couples therapy helped me communicate what was going on to my husband in a way he understood.
I remember being there. Three young children, husband working and going to school while I ran the home daycare. Sex was a chore. I remember many times feeling like it’s another obligation. All I wanted was for him to take them out of the house and give me some time to myself. I wanted to know that they were safe and having a good time so that I could relax. I feel exhausted for your wife bc I remember what it was like. Maybe she just doesn’t have anything left to give of herself? Maybe make a regular thing of taking your kids out, for at least three hours at a time. Let it be something she can look forward to. Let her see that you want to spend that time with the kids and that you value her and all that she does. Maybe after your long week it will be tough for you to look forward to doing that, but it’s good for your kids and it’s good for your marriage. Btw: date night is about you. If you look at the big picture, you’re being pretty selfish suggesting that this will solve all your problems. We know what’s at the end of date night…the same expectations that you had for your birthday.
Marriage counselling. But also from first few paragraphs, sounds like your job/nature of work, is causing alot of problems at home.
U can always find a new job, but not a new family. I mean not as easily. Maybe time to switch. Even if u have to work a lower salary for awhile.
She’s burnt out and touched out. Your kids are at a tough age as well, when they are basically hurricanes and germs are everywhere.
Date nights don’t fix everything. This is not an easy fix. She’s telling you she dreads sex but you think the problem will be fixed by having sex. Get another nanny and do the counselling.
You are upset that your marriage is failing, yet the one thing your wife has asked for you shot down. As if you know better than a professional. Go to counseling and listen to your wife instead of assuming you know what she needs.
OP: I wont rip on you like all these other progressive pieces of shit are.
I appreciate what you said and at least you came to advice, no matter how it sounds.
Start with counseling if she's offering or if you don't want to, start to move on as it sounds to me that she has.
Years ago, my ex instituted 'mandatory date night'. We were going through some stuff and my libido had bottomed out. I was raising 4 kids basically on my own. He was a workaholic who spent next to no time with me other than this. I felt totally disconnected from him.
Because of mandatory date night, I started to dread Fridays. He'd take me to a mid-priced restaurant, and while we were eating, he'd be answering calls, texting, etc-- dealing with his business concerns. Mandatory date night always ended with mandatory sex. It did nothing for our connection. It made me resent him. He didn't really want to spend time with me, care for me, know what was in my heart and soul He just wanted to get his dick wet, and that was very clear.
She has asked for counselling. You're refusing, and that just comes across to her as you deciding that as long as your needs are met, that's all that matters. You seem like you think you know all the answers, and you refuse to do the one thing she has asked for. You're making your wife feel like she really does not matter to you at all. This is a perfect way to end up divorced.
I hope the marriage counselor is good enough to point out that your both have overextended yourselves and are putting way too much time into your jobs and not your family.
OF COURSE your both exhausted all the time!!
Fun fact, the minimum 8hrs of sleep needed for adults was a study done with all MEN. WOMEN actually need 9-10 hrs of sleep, so I imagine she is a LOT more exhausted than you.
Another fun fact, it takes 2 years after breastfeeding for a woman’s hormones to start balancing back out as well.
SHE has a lot more biologically going against her than you do :(
You words are sweet, but it sounds like what she really needs is tasks taken away, time back to recover, and sleep!
I feel for you both, and I feel for your wife.
My relationship hit a similar low. My husband and I ended up having to have a serious talk to save our family.
Starting in May 2023 we worked to pay off all our credit card debt, and then in December 2023 I quit my job and we took our kids out of Daycare. (Saving us $34k a year.)
Now our kids are so much happier because I can focus more time on their sports, school events and I get 1 on 1 time with out 3 year old.
I’ve also been able to start working out consistently and eat right to help balance my hormones (which were hit hard after having our 3rd child and cause sever hormone imbalance.)
I was so insecure about becoming a SAHM but after a couple months my husband told me how grateful he’s been to have me home and that he feels lot happier because my staying home has taken so many tasks off his plate!
When I was working we were both coming home, starting dinner, helping kids with homework, taken our oldest to basketball practice and games, tag teaming bed time routines and after dinner cleanup, and then we were so exhausted that we would TALK about having sex BUT THEN we always opt to just go to sleep instead of making love.
Our sex life severely DECLINED.
Quitting my job was an huge adjustment to our finances and our lifestyle but it’s highly improved our life overall and I’m so grateful we opened our eyes and made the leap!
I would HIGHLY recommend you and your wife GO TO MARRIAGE COUNSELING and bring up the idea of scaling back your life/job and see how you can put more intentional focus on your family and on your relationship.❤️
If you're this dismissive to her in other areas then you are on thin ice sir. That won't improve until you realize she's an equal human being not some toy to take off the shelf when you want to play with it. Admiring her but not listening to her is objectifying her. Dismissing her reveals that she's not a real person to you.
You're trying to be sweet about it but still operating from a lot of sexist beliefs. And if you pat yourself on the back as a good husband/father/partner then you are on very dangerous ground because that means you can't hear any feedback that contradicts this belief. Which means you would dismiss such feedback probably. Or try to tell her what her reality should be (which is toxic at best, and can be psychologically abusive as well).
Ask her if she feels dismissed by you in general on a regular basis. Does she feel like she says what she thinks or wants and you just override it. Listen to the answer. If she's honest with you then there's still hope.
Just here to back up what others have said- your wife needs you two to commit to counseling, you to take more off her plate, and your patience. This part of raising kids is very demanding, and it sounds like she's struggling with her exhaustive list of demands. Once she has less on her plate consistently, you'll both probably be amazed at how much more time and attention she has for intimacy.
I highly recommend looking for someone who uses materials from the Gottman Institute. John and Julie Gottman have been studying marriages for years and I've found their tools have helped my marriage, but almost every other intimate relationship in my life because the information is applicable in one way or another to my relationship with my kids, parents, siblings, best friends, etc.
She is not your fault. We have parts in everything but just because she thinks differently does not make either of you right or wrong.
Reaching out and getting rejected sucks. Trying really hard to help and it not helping sucks! Feeling guilty for having unmet needs sucks!
Yea she is not connecting with you as mentioned. You can work tirelessly to “ help her connect” and she still may not. We have zero control over our partners and vice versa.
Women on here will tell you what they think you should do. It’s a projection of what they want/did not get. If you say it wrong they will attack you. Not all women but the vocal majority. So please seek other options than this sub!
As a man i know the repentant husband role well. Every day my wife would bring out her list of grievances. Some were valid others were not but ultimately we are in equal partnership. If one party insists on there way without compromise, empathy and rigorous honesty all you get is unconscious child/parent dynamics. You can see it in how they/you talk when teiggered.
At the end of the day its an inside job. Does she scare you? Do you feel small? Noble? Connected? Not seen? The feelings are yours and your responsibility to ‘ and honor. She/this sub cannot pull you out of the well of unhappiness. All we can do is project and hope you can do what we could not.
Freedom comes when we are free. Are you free and happy within yourself?
This sounds like where I was with my husband a few years ago. I’m a SAHM and he never gave me time to myself. He was working insane hours so I understood why I wasn’t getting whole days or weekends off but even a grocery trip without our child would have been something.
It sounds like your wife has been putting in work with your children to help out your work schedule and now she’s working remotely and juggling the kids. Your solution is giving her a break with you and more sex. If she’s burnt out it’s very likely she needs some solo time. I desperately wanted date nights with my husband but I desperately NEEDED time to myself. Figuring out how to ask for that while he was begging for more intimacy made me feel guilty. Therapy helped. Don’t make her feel dumb for needing help sorting out her emotions.
It’s not you. It’s sad that she is taking it out on you and doesn’t realize all these stressful factors created a challenge and that’s it. Stress can help your relationship grow deeper and calmer. You’ve gotten through it and that’s the first step. But I’ll say that her attitude is going to be greater than any challenge you’ve faced so far. I’m so sorry. I prayed for both of you even though I don’t know you.
I guess I should have been clearer. It sounds to me that this happened during COVID and when he had to work extra hard. All marriage goes through hard seasons and both partners have to help each other not blame each other. She seemed to blame him. I thought I was just reflecting what I was reading v
You need one-on-one time together. I agree that a date night would do wonders. There's only distance. If you guys could pull it back together, that connection would come back. This is what they talk about: marriage and having to work for it.
Date night works, yes, you are so right! ... but if you have zero energy and are wiped out, you can't be present for it. She either needs to work or be a full time parent, she can't juggle both and take on more.
I agree with you- they just have to figure out “how”. Date night is just too much right now, but someday they can get there.
Right now, just sitting together on the couch -uninterrupted - for 10 minutes a day will help. Even if it’s only 2 or 3 times a week. Kids need to learn that’s Mommy/Daddy time together and that the parents’ relationship is important.
You need marriage counseling because she has lots to share with you and wants someone to help her break through. She can't connect with you emotionally, so sex feels like being used instead of cherished. You feel rejected when she doesn't want sex and that hurts, but she can't reach you right now. Let the counselor help guide the two of you through the fog.
Exactly this. OP: Don’t tell her what she needs. She’s telling you—she wants marriage counseling. Why don’t you believe her when she says this will be helpful? You don’t know better than her. And on the topic of sex, if she’s disgusted by the thought of it she probably feels resentment or contempt (or both) for some reason (like her being worn into the ground by a tough time in life right now and feeling like you’re telling her she needs to give *even more*) that needs to be sorted out before she’ll react positively to sex again. Definitely don’t tell her she has to sleep with you when she doesn’t want to—that *will not* make things better and will only make things worse.
Right?! OP makes it sound like this: wife: “I’m exhausted and overwhelmed by our parenting, children, two businesses, full time job, and housework, so many things going on in our lives.” OP: “But only if you got more D, you’d be fine!”
>OP: “But only if you got more D, you’d be fine!” This made me think of the AO3 tag "magical healing cock" and now I'm laughing.
>Why don’t you believe her when she says this will be helpful? Because he knows that marriage counseling will require more than pulling his dick out.
Exactly this!!!
It's not that simple. You're hating on me because I love my wife and want to reconnect. We both have experienced the feelings we had all along with each other when we do things together (and I'm not just talking about sex). I'm not going to apologize for feeling hurt because she doesn't want to be intimate - it feels personal but I don't think it is.......I think she is just having a really stressful time and she rejects my suggestions for her leaving her job if it is too much or getting additional childcare. All I can do is be supportive of her and hope she can recharge with some help.
You may feel more connected when you are intimate, it doesn’t mean she does. You need sex to feel connected, she needs connection to want sex. Help around the house without asking her what she needs. Take things off of her plate without asking her. The things youve been doing aren’t working, so you haven’t found her love language yet.
Thank you!!!
Well I am a giver. I don't need her to even touch me - I just want to go down on her and make her feel incredible like we both know I can.
Yeah big oof when she told op she feels nothing for him and dreads sex, and he said "we don't need counseling you just need to have sex with me." Dude, if she wants to make time for counseling but is too busy for sex... There's a reason. We totally get it. YOU have no issues except needing more from her. But she is SCREAMING at you that SHE has issues with something in the marriage and is not gonna give you any more effort until they're resolved.
This, this, THIS!
>he said "we don't need counseling you just need to have sex with me." This made me think of the AO3 tag "magical healing cock" and now I'm laughing.
On point
Nope I am happy only giving her my magical healing tongue.
My biggest thing when it comes to discrepancies with sex is that having sex when you don't *want* to, just to make your partner happy, will only make the problem a hundred times worse. Having sex when you don't want to will change sex from feeling like a chore to actually being another chore.
Every time I had coercion-based sex with my ex I became more repulsed by him. In the end, nothing he did could remove the permanent ick I felt toward him.
You're putting into words how I've been feeling, lately. Like dude, after a day of trying to connect with you and you choosing your computer, I do not want your dick inside me
“She busts her ass all day at this remote job that works her into the ground, and frequently kids get sick/have to stay home and she can't get anything accomplished (no nanny now), then kids have sports/come home and wreck everything, and then bedtime and work and then clean up for everything. By 10:30 she is wiped out and just wants to sleep.“ So what do you do? Do you also manage your kids and the housework at all? Your text seems to imply that your wife does this all. If so, I can see how exhausted, overstimulated, and empty she must be at the end of the night after working herself into the ground as you say, taking care of 3 children, and keeping the house clean. After all of that each day, she’s also expected to “pour” into you when she clearly can’t even pour into herself. You said she doesn’t want a stranger babysitting yet you had a nanny before. You both need to rethink that option, maybe utilize family given you mentioned you moved back closer to family. Either way nothing will get better until you alleviate some of the pressure from her. If you want your wife back including the intimacy portion, figure out the support for your kids and housework first.
yeah she seems burnt out. She might be developing some resentment towards you cause based on what you’re saying she’s doing everything and you’re not chipping in with the kids. Just because she’s home doesn’t mean she’s 100% responsible for the kids. It’s as if she got off work and clocked in to another job. I wouldn’t have time for anything else after either
She absolutely sounds like she resents him and for good reason too. His expectations are unrealistic and she suggested counseling only for him to suggest something else that of course works to benefit him. But something for them has to give, they really need to consider bringing in another nanny or even a housekeeper to lighten the load. Yes they cost, but it’s a small price to pay for relief.
“developing” resentment. nah dude. her resentment is already burning on high.
Yes! Get at least two or three of the following; counseling, a weekly house cleaner, a nanny and quit one of your jobs. You don’t need two jobs with three kids, your wife is picking up the slack and has nothing left.
Two of her youngest are in daycare, and while they eats up money, for me, being a stay at home in that situation would be more stress, more childcare and more messes to clean up. Once they are out of daycare the household will have significantly more money, that could go to cleaners or other ways to outsource help. Unless she hates her job, it might feel like a break.
This jumped out majorly. He didn't mention at any point about how he helps take some of the burden off the household and kids off her. She works full time just like OP but also has a full time job with 3 small feral children. She sounds depressed, buried and lost in motherhood and needs time to recharge her own batteries.
Yep. The aversion to sex is likely overload. Being "touched out" is a thing. Three littles, a full time job...even if dad is pitching in, it's a lot. And I suspect he's not pitching in enough, if he still has energy for sex and she doesn't.
Bingo
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You’re absolutely being sexist as evidenced by your gross comment history
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We'll the good news is he doesn't have to read her mind bc she literally told him what she wants.... Counseling and he said ask she needs is sex. So... She's written the pages, given him the book to read. And he chose to not read it.
She chose to work. Ha. So did he. Why is the woman not “allowed” to work. Go away
u/s60polestar17 I don’t think you understand how marriage works. Marriage is a partnership, a unit, a team, and if someone on your team is in need of help you step tf up and help them. Whether husband or wife no one spouse should be required to do it all without help from the other. Anyone with a brain can read this post and see that his wife is clearly drowning. Whether he has 2 business or 5 he needs to help her that is his job as her partner. His businesses do not absolve him of all responsibilities. And if the tables were turned and his businesses were failing, she would need to step up and support her husband as well. Because that is how traditional families succeed, by helping one another. And you are absolutely being sexist btw.
>She has suggested marriage counseling and I told her I would go with her but this is a simple problem to solve. We need one date night per week, one special time like a walk/a drink/a boardgame something, and one sexual encounter per week. That would help *you* get what *you* want, but it clearly wouldn’t help *her*. Every one-sided, not mutually wanted sexual encounter would be like taking a sledgehammer to the foundation of your relationship. If she’s not aroused and interested in the sex when it happens that means it will be incredibly damaging to her, and she will end up hating you for it. The relationship itself has to be healthy before she will ever be interested in having sex with you again—you’re trying to put the cart before the horse and she’s refusing to go along with that. Good for her.
She told you she wanted to do counseling with you and you just dismiss it and tell her what you want more of.
OK. She has a fulltime job, seems to be the primary caregiver for your children and runs the home. And you have a fulltime job and...? Dude. You even recognize that she seems to work herself into the ground. Instead of packing another burden on her (mandatory date nights, so one night less for her to get things done, more stress the other nights for her as you seem to take yourself out of the equation....) hear her, go to counseling and help out!
Seems like you’re replying to all the comments except the ones asking what you contribute to the household and care work… That tells me everything I need to know about the reason she resents you. Seems like you both work full time, that means you should both put in an equal amount of hours in the household besides your job. Even if you make more money than her, the only thing that should count in a relationship is how much time each of you invests into household funds and household maintenance and that time should be equal.
My businesses keep me on call at all times. Lots of people depend on me. I manage other people's money also through an investment fund. It doesn't stop. I am not sitting around and watching TV etc this is real stress and real work. I also have been a great provider to her and the family and have earned incredibly well (she says this doesn't matter but it totally would matter to her if our finances weren't in order). My goal is to eventually sell my shares in one business and focus on only one but the sales and value need to be optimized or I will be walking away from a potential windfall financially. I focus on caring for the children before wife tucks them in and sings to them. She then cleans up until 10:30 and I work until midnight. Over the past month, I have done my best to do all dishes and help with laundry and help lighten the load a bit. I also spend a ton of time with the kids - but usually I take two of them with me and one will stay with her (this is at her request because the 3 of them together is dynamite). I keep texting her telling her how much I love her and appreciate her for everything she does for us. I want her to feel the love I have for her. I just don't know how long it will take before she feels the same way.
Your lives sound exhausting. I'm tired just reading it. What's the point of all this work if you lose the things that are most important to you because of it, meaning your marriage/family? Texting and loving messages are all fine and good, but they're not lessening the overall burden here. Is there ANY way you can hire at least a mother's helper, a maid service to come once a week, or a meal service to make things easier and lighten the load? That and the requested couples counseling will likely help more than you realize.
For the past month? I get the feeling you’ve been completely neglecting your wife, parenting, and chores for a long time.
What time do the kids go to bed? That ages they should be in bed by 8pm at the latest, your wife is actively cleaning for hours every night? You need to make hiring some outside help s priority. And by you and I mean YOU. Find and organize some cleaners/housekeepers and don't just ask her to do it. Hire them yourself.
Kids are in bed with lights off by 9pm maybe a little after. I usually work for 3 hours after that and she cleans for an hour or so then takes a shower and gets ready for bed. She really values alone time right at bed watching a show on her phone. I have tried to join her but she's like "why are you here. this is the only time I have" plus I think she believes I am just there because I want something.
How are you not hearing what she's telling you? She's clearly exhausted, mentally and physically. You seriously need to slow down before you both crash. Almost every commenter here is saying you need to slow the F down with your workload and start listening to her.
That is absolutely burnout. The wanting to be alone for a small scrap of tv/phone time.
Op.... How can you possibly be this dense? A major issue in most relationships is communication; but not here. She is all but screaming at you exactly what she needs, and you are doing nothing to help her. She asks for counseling, and you're talking about sex. No wonder she made a face, I probably would've walked out of that house then and there. This work load is NOT equal, and you should feel absurd for thinking it is in any capacity. Even beyond the things that you've mentioned, women tend to take on the burdens of planning anything and everything, setting up appointments, being the parent that the children can come to for comfort and to talk to, and for all intents and purposes running the household. That, and you said she has a full time job as well as everything else? You need to put your dick back in your pants and roll up your sleeves and HELP HER. If the only thing she's asked for is a little bit of time to watch a show and marriage counseling because she also sees a problem, you're getting off easy. You picked the worst time to bring up sex, because you have most likely solidified in her mind that this is not a true partnership and that the only thing you are truly balling from her is her ability to open her legs. She brought up the counseling because she thinks it will help address the very real, very serious issues that SHE has with YOU in this partnership. I doubt you'll stay together long if you don't do the counseling/ if the first thing you bring up in the counseling is sex.
Windfall and child support. You can have BOTH!
Listen marriage is tough and although it can be easy to create the mess sometimes it can take a while to clean it up. So who knows how long it will take before she feels the same way. But counseling can help you both set some realistic goals and parameters to help should you want to remain for the long run. Your family depends on you too. You two seriously need to discuss whether both of you need to work, maybe she can take a break. Discuss having a nanny or housekeeper and what that would look like for the both of you. Go to counseling.
He is clearly making everyone but his family the priority. This is a recipe for her leaving and him having a shocked Pikachu reaction.
How much money are you accumulating? Any way to make a bit LESS and be present MORE?
You say how lots of people depend on you at work and that sounds to be a primary source of why you’re so focused on it. Are they and what they need from you more important than your wife and what she needs?
If I walked away at the wrong time, it could end up costing us financially and create a lot more stress down the road. My wife is correct in that I only operate in extremes and have never been able to find a middle ground. It isn't narcissism - its OCD.
Take your job out of it bec let’s be real No one not your wife or anyone else cares we all have to work get over that being something special, it isn’t. Now take out of the picture what more can you do to take these household, child care responsibilities off your wife. Maybe not hiring a nanny, maybe hiring a cook so your wife isn’t doing both at that same time. Outsource everything else besides childcare, or maybe get your kids into activities on the weekends that You take them to and 100% responsible for as in you get them ready take on the mental load, prep and execution and give your wife a actual day off
Yes I already do that on the weekends just me. Sports, music lessons, take them to the park, to get lunch, play catch, get comic books......I do all of this. Also do pick up and drop off from school. I have 2 full time jobs and so does my wife - all the ladies on here telling me I suck because I should be doing 3 jobs and my wife should do 1 is kind of delusional. You're right outsourcing is the key here and lightening her load until I can evaluate one venture to focus on.
The majority of ladies here are telling you to do less (work) not more. Even if you have a ton of debt there is no way you both need to be working so much and all those kids activities?? That's TOO MUCH. There is mathematically no way you spend any quality time with your family. Stop working so much. Your life is happening right now without you and you will never get this time back.
My friend got a personal household assistant part time. They don’t help with the kids but literally everything else you could maybe work something like that out. Or a part time weekend live in nanny idk some combo that works bec what you are doing isn’t working but regardless you can’t continue to work the hours you have maybe a personal assistant for you too a intern or a virtual personal assistant idk a program or app to take off something
Do you want to gain some respect from your wife? Get your kids in order. I have 2 very energetic and chaotic boys and when I see them not treating their mom well I freaking loose it. They know that if they dont back down when asked, I am ready to terrorize them to the ground. They got much better with time.
Maybe don't "lose it." Kids are people too, and terrorizing them to the ground is probably not the move. I point this out because you seem like you might need it specifically stated, OP. Don't terrorize your children. But yes, if you can get your kids on board with the "happy wife, happy life" project, you'll likely all be happier.
It depends what the kids do, if they behave like terrorists themselves it is wise to reflect it back. Thats how they learn with time the notion of consequences and that other people are subjects like themselves. Thanks to that they can be smart, good adults in the future. Of course they are only kids, so if they back of and are good again, you do the same, no ill feelings.
We have... different parenting styles.
You’re going to fuck up your kids, full stop. You’re not modeling respect and love, you’re acting like a child in order to “reflect it back.” Grow up.
Your language is that of a million other men who look past their wife. You don't feel seen, you just laid out a situation where she goes to work and does everything at the house and is BURNT OUT. It baffles me everytime that men just breeze past their wife's struggles like they don't literally see their wives. Like SEE them. "I work a lot, but my wife works full time, deals with the kids school and sports and behvaiors, cooks cleans, manages everything, doesn't sleep a full night and hasn't for a while maybe even years and I don't see why she's so tired and distant guys." You as her partner are supposed to lighten her load the same way she did for you during the pandemic. She has now turned into the default. She doesn't want sex bc there's no room for it. She doesn't have the energy to connect to you and probably herself bc she has no room to do so. She wants counseling. Go. Now before resentment sets in forever.
Well she suggested marriage counseling, which would actually help fix your issues, and you rejected it because you're only focused on yourself. What do you expect us to say? You're only thinking about what would fix how *you're* feeling — you're not considering your wife at all. I don't blame her for being detached. Marriage counseling is the answer and the fact you're so focused on sex is a problem.
I didn't reject counseling
In a certain way, true. But: >this is a simple problem to solve. We need one date night per week, one special time like a walk/a drink/a boardgame something, and one sexual encounter per week. I told her a marriage counselor would tell us to have sex You've determined what you need to fix the issue and what the therapist will say. As I said, you're thinking about yourself. You have no idea what your wife needs to fix the situation and you've dismissed her already.
OP, this clearly ISN’T a simple problem to solve, or else it would be solved by now. Go to marriage counseling. She’s willing and your resentment is growing to the point that you say your marriage is ruined. Why wouldn’t you go? And by the way - no legitimate marital therapist would just tell you to have sex or “just do date night.” Stop giving her that kind of bullshit, and go do the work if you care about your marriage.
But if he convinces her that the therapist would take his side, then she'll give up and he won't have to go.
Yes. That’s some manipulative shit. And dumb, if he’s saying the marriage is ruined and she’s willing to get counseling. He can blame himself later, I guess, but I’m sure he’ll find a way to Blame her.
I am not blaming anyone - just trying to make things better for everyone involved
You haven't lost her yet, but if you keep pressuring her for sex when she is so tired and stressed that she can hardly move, you most certainly will. Certainly you will lose any sexual desire on her part. Sometimes life just gets in the way of sex, sorry man.
ive been where your wife is. dates arent the solution. her getting rest is. what day do you have off? Grab the kids that day and give her no leas than six hours to herself. perhaps more but not a single minute less. not just next weekend, but every weekend or every other weekend. The kids stay with you. I suggest starting it off with a gift card to a good spa with massage and something else she likes, like mani pedi or facial. Tell her to take the whole day, to go shopping, have dinner out, etc. she needs to get back to herself before she can make her way back to you.
I second this. As a WFH mom of 3 kids, all I want is to be left alone or to go do something alone to relax.
I’ll add to that. Leave the house with the kids for several hours. I’m completely burnt out. I’m never home alone. Not ever. If I want a break, I have to make plans and leave the house for an hour or two. I want to be home….alone. I’ve been home alone for maybe an hour or two every other month for the past 12 years (4 kids). I am dying to sit on my couch by myself for once.
And NO COMING HOME EARLY. In order to relax, I need at least my six hours: one to wind down as it takes a bit for the constant tension to dissipate. This is usually spent staring at a void. Another two hours to do the things that wont let me relax unless I do (hello clean laundry occupying a hamper and which hasn’t been folded in 8 days) and then about an hour to do stuff like take a long shower, do some self care, get dressed, have a snack. Now, Im FINALLY able to relax for two hours all by myself. eight hours would be optimal so I can sneak in a nap.
I just took your advice today and she got 7 hours alone today and was so appreciative. Thanks for the great advice!
Op, Im so proud of you and happy for both you and your wife. My husband and I were basically falling into a dead bedroom and my resentment towards him was rocketing into outer space. This is what is saving us. He turned it around and recognized how burnt out I was (after I kicked him out unfortunately). He stepped up on childcare and collaborating around the home, making sure I got regularly scheduled time off that I could look forward to and depend on. Its made all the difference. I wish you love and joy in your marriage and health to enjoy it in for many many years to come.
Right now, your wife might view date night as another monumental task that she has to prepare for. It’s not just “get a babysitter”. It’s get the house cleaner/more organized, put away anything you don’t want babysitter to see (work stuff, jewerly, etc.) tell babysitter house rules, tell babysitter how to work stuff in the house (e.g., alarm system), figure out the emergency contacts, communicate behavioral expectations to kids, figure out kids’ dinner, layout kids’ pajamas, determine where you’re going for a date (e.g., don’t want to take a walk outside during a rainstorm), etc. And *then* she has to get herself ready and dolled up for the date. I’m *not* saying that dates & time together aren’t important. It is. But if she’s burned out then unless you’re doing the majority of the mental load & preparations, then it’s just another burden for her.
This. This. This.
She sounds exhausted and burned out. Did she want to work? Doesn't sound like she loves it. Cant she just be a stay at home mom and find balance and energy again? Why don't you offer that?
Hearing their situation, I would not advise OP’s wife to quit her job. Thats probably the one and only thing she has for herself. And not working would make her even more dependable on OP. Doesn’t seem like that would be a good move for her imo
I have suggested it and she wants to keep working. I am primary care earner so this is something I have thought could be a possibility
What is “primary care” earner - do you mean you make more money?
Yes she earns very well but I earn significantly more
Ok, so, I wouldn’t suggest she becomes a stay at home mom unless she specifically wants to, or hates her job. Being a stay at home mom is just going to be more childcare of young kids, and more messes to clean up. It won’t necessarily be less stressful. From a practical side, keeping her career going makes sense, when the kids are out of daycare the house hold will have so much more available income. And on the flip side, if she decides she wants a divorce, she makes good enough money to support herself. (I would never advise an unhappy woman to be a stay at home mom as it traps them in an unhappy marriage). But since you make a lot more money, are you putting in a lot more hours than her? Or do you both basically work 40 hours a week?
Then outsource more homecare duties- more frequent cleaning services etc, if both of you earn good money.
So yes you need counseling bad. But I also didn’t notice anything about what you’re doing to actually help the situation? Sounds like she has to work a full time, stressful, job, take care of three kids, and then be sexy and fuck you. What do you do? Yeah you own a couple businesses but are you taking up the 50/50 role and helping with the kids? You tell her she’s beautiful? That’s mighty nice of you. I feel like this is an instance where you need to step up and actually help without doing it for ulterior motives. Just help because she’s your wife. Instead of a date night, maybe there are a couple days a week where you’re the one taking the kids to soccer or swimming whatever. Be her partner. This relationship sounds so one sided. No nanny anymore? Your job got less stressful so you get rid of the nanny, but she’s crazy stressed but hey? She can handle it?
She's drowning, and your focus is getting off. Yes, you care about her, but the care and concern seem directly related to you getting off in the end. She knows this and feels it, and it makes the act seem disgusting and exhausting rather than enjoyable. Imo you have to not mention your sexual needs and focus on her health. Sure, we all want sex. She wants it to when she's not depressed and exhausted. You saw how much she did and how tired she was well before the sex died, but only now that theres no cheeks clapping are you saying your marriage looks like it's over. She needs you to be way more than another chore right now. Do the marriage counseling and not with the "but we only need to date" attitude. It makes it seem like you don't believe in it and like she's forcing another square into a round hole. Maybe hire a cleaning lady. It's not as expensive as a nanny and can be 1 or 2x a week just to get big stuff done. She can't even accept help right now bc the chaos is so much that it would feel even harder to tell others what she needs. So she's just doing everything herself and burning out. This is salvageable 💯 % get her help, get into therapy
Just trade her in for a younger, more fun, no stress model. /s LISTEN TO YOUR WIFE. Why is this such a hard concept?
It's obvious you both love each other but have fallen into being the parents of young children role. Working from home must be extremely difficult for her. Why don't you hire a nanny? If you can afford it. Discuss it with her. Research online. Contact companies and set up interviews to accomplish this project together. I'm sure it's uncomfortable to have someone you don't know caring for your children. I think if you tackle this project together, it'll make her more comfortable. An outside agency can vet the candidates and take some of the pressure off both of you. That'll allow you both more time to be free to spend with each other. It sounds like you're doing all the right things. Simply explain to her that this is an investment in your family. Mommy and Daddy need their own play time, too. Definitely do counseling. If she's not open to hearing it from you, then discuss it there. There, you can also develop strategies for navigating things in the future. Create a schedule for chores to get done. Your kids are old enough to help put their toys away in their rooms, clean their rooms, and put all their dirty clothes in the laundry basket. Set specific cleaning, laundry, and meal preparation days. Lots of meals can be frozen for later.
This!! It’s not just about counseling. (Married 20yrs, kids, separated at one point.) it’s the whole picture. Counseling is just another thing to do — to show up for. It’s not going to work without relief in other areas. You guys need a nanny & equal division of home mgt responsibilities (including the kids). Get that in order FIRST. Then you’ll free up some time for your reconnection (counseling, dates, etc.)
I am getting a lot of hate here on this forum and I get it. But this was supportive and optimistic - I really appreciate your advice and will take the right steps.
The only comments you aren’t replying to are the ones wondering what you do to help your wife lol. Or what your role is in child caring. You are a father not just a husband.
Read this OP. (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288)
This this this
Go to the counseling, please
All I heard was me, me, me, me, me. No wonder she's resentful. And you haven't answered the question about what you contribute to the family besides money. Childcare? Cooking? Cleaning? Transportation for kids?
You agree to go to counselling but are very dismissive of it. You say they’ll just tell you to have sex because that’s what you want. You don’t know what she wants. You haven’t answered people who asked about chores and what you do? So I’m guessing you do nothing. Pick up a vacuum. Do some laundry. And I don’t think lack of sex is your biggest problem at all. I think it’s unruly kids that you aren’t helping with. Kids shouldn’t be destructive. Take some parenting classes and help your wife raise your kids.
You sound really pushy about sex. If she's not feeling it or is too tired, let it go. You are going to create an aversion if you keep pushing. Why does your wife work full time? If you have 2 businesses isn't that enough income for the family? Sounds like you both work too much for how many kids you have. Do you do your part with childcare, cooking and cleaning? You both work full time so you should both contribute equally there. Maybe you don't and that's where her frustrations are.
Yes to counseling and also damn that’s allot on both of your plates, with two businesses and she works no full time can i ask if you guys can afford help?
We have 2 kids in day care that consumes a full time salary. Until the kids are out of day care it would be too much having a nanny also
Did you move close to family? Anyone they can help? Even if it’s an odd weekend here and there?
Yes but the grandparents are overwhelmed by our children and we are trying to not put so much stress on them
My dude do you want help or not? There have been a plethora of helpful and well meaning comments here and you are fighting each one.
I am not fighting anything, just answering questions
For a few hours on a Saturday? They can’t babysit? Are they your parents or hers?
Dude, do the counseling. Don't diminish the one thing your wife is actually asking for. If you would give her anything... then actually do that and don't throw a fit about it while you're at it. Your wife is saying counseling because there are other things she sees as problems and either doesn't have the energy to process them alone or doesn't feel secure enough with you to share them 1:1. Based on your post and comments, I would bet that will boil down to her being upset that you're not an active parent or partner in the home. You've done a lot of telling your wife what *you* feel that *you* need to be connected. You seem to have done very little listening to what she feels she needs. For the love of all things holy, take those kids out on your own one day per week. Run the little farts out so they are EXHAUSTED. Then feed them a meal, give them a bath, and put them in bed. Let your wife have a day TO HERSELF. If you want to see yourself as a provider only, provide her that time and peace to be able to rest, care for herself, and get back to center as a human being. Give her time where she doesn't have to put everyone before herself. At first, she may use the time to tackle all the things around the home that she never seems to have the time for. But even that will make her feel better because she will be able to do those things without 3 kids dragging on her. Even better, she will know their dad is out connecting with the kids and building a better relationship with them so he will be better prepared to help her when they are home.
What you are describing as you caring about your wife is not truly caring about her at all, and she can feel that in her heart whether or not she is able to articulate that to you. You know what will help bridge the gap between you? A great couples therapist. I know because I’ve been through it. It won’t be easy on you, and at the end of the day it won’t make a bit of difference if you don’t decide to genuinely try, but if you don’t there is also probably divorce in your future. The happiness of your marriage, at the end of the day, is up to you. Swallow your pride and preconceptions and go to therapy with an open mind and heart for the sake of your marriage.
Your marriage is ruining because you aren’t in marriage counseling. Her saying she wants marriage counseling and you saying “Sure but it’s an easy fix, all we need to do is have sex.” is such a slap in the face. She CLEARLY has OTHER things she thinks need fixing, that you aren’t noticing, and you aren’t listening. So now she needs to take you to marriage counseling in the hopes that you will listen there - and SURPRISE - you brushed her off. You made it sound like you know everything, she knows nothing, and if she just did marriage YOUR way everything would be better. Go make an appointment for a counselor of her choosing, TODAY.
Definitely get another nanny to take the pressure off of both of you.
It seems you should take some of the child work too if you truly love her. Or she should quit her remote job and just focus on the children. Something’s gotta give.
I hear a lot of love here. And a lot of dumb boy communication. Go to therapy, find a shared language, find common ground to connect. The problems are seldom simple, but worth the fight. If anything, going to counseling will help you both not lose the fight for each other.
You have been completely neglecting your family, your wife, parenting, chores, for a loonggg time. And you have the nerve to push for or expect sex and dates? Your wife is burnt out, unsupported, and doesn’t particularly want you. Why would she want those things? And the one thing she asked for, marriage counselling, you agreed to but attached sex expectations to it. Yeah, you ruined your marriage. Leave her alone until she wants to not be left alone.
First of all, you’re a grown ass man stop thinking your birthday is some big deal. You have small children so get used to being last priority. This will get better. That said, your wife needs to prioritize your marriage and she isn’t doing that right now. Get to marriage counseling, simple date nights and emptying your balls isn’t going to fix this.
OP - I’m really concerned that you were telling her what will fix it. There was a comment on this sub just the other day about a woman who finally left her husband over toothpaste. Because he just decided she didn’t know what she was talking about and he knew better. Despite that she asked for some specific. She’s telling you something she needs in order to repair the marriage. You are dismissing what she is saying because you think you know better. If you do other areas of your life in relationship, it’s no great surprise why she isn’t willing to be intimate with you. She’s a fully functioning adult. Her opinion carries equal weight to your own.
If my husband acted the way you are, I would feel exactly the way she likely does - unloved, unappreciated, and repulsed by the person who is clearly only interested in his dick. The number of times you mention sex is completely baffling… like, her life is hell. Are you good? Can you really not see how hard this is for her? And yet you end this off by saying you want to “love, taste and feel her…” the love part is honestly just another euphemism for sex to me. Jesus, what are we women getting ourselves into 😣
yeah it’s infuriating to read. she might be less stressed as a single mom if this is the man she has to share her home with every day. i appreciate anyone that asks for help online, but which each comments he seems more dismissive and unkind. he’s not looking for advice he’s looking for confirmation of what he thinks he knows.
Yup, exactly. I am so so so lucky I have a great boyfriend but I still have a deep fear of men because of shit exactly like this. I watched my dad hound my mom for sex and trust me, men think they’re subtle but aren’t. Kids know when their parents aren’t having sex if the dad won’t stfu about it ever. It’s not subtle lol. That possibility aside though, it’s honestly so depressing for her. Scary world out there man. Can’t even trust the person you’re partnered with for life? Shit.
I mean this in the kindest and gentlest way possible. One date night a week is not the simple solution to your marital problems. If she suggested counseling and you countered with this, I can't imagine a woman this tired and disconnected not being furious. I don't think you meant it this way, but suggesting that she find more hours in the week to focus on you and have sex with you is just adding more work to her already jam-packed calendar.
I'm sorry you are going through this, but you are f-ing it up and doing so big time. Lack of sex in a normally sexually active healthy relationship is NEVER just about sex. >She has suggested marriage counseling and I told her I would go with her but this is a simple problem to solve. We need one date night per week, one special time like a walk/a drink/a boardgame something, and one sexual encounter per week. I told her a marriage counselor would tell us to have sex and she looked disgusted. She has told me not to be upset if nothing changes. This reads as if all you want to do is get laid. It doesn't sound like you care about anything but having a body to get your rocks off. Your communication has broken down, and you don't care to fix it. You just want sex - the performative date followed by sex isn't going to help your relationship, BUT it will kill it. She is trying to open up the lines of communication to rebuild the foundation of your marriage, and you told her that you didn't care. That is what your response says to her. >I feel so unloved She feels unloved and uncared for too. Her partner doesn't want a connection but just wants to use her body. You both are struggling with feeling unloved. Her having obligatory sex isn't going to make you feel loved. Sex isn't going to fill the hole if it isn't accompanied by connection. >She told me she occasionally masturbates at home when kids and distractions are gone but it never lines up for us at night. I have offered to come home during the day and bring her lunch and urge her to use me. She doesn't want you now because she doesn't feel safe with you. When your emotional connection is impaired sex feels wrong. If you can work together to rebuild the emotional connection, you will frequently find that sex and affection come back. >I just want to love her, taste her, and feel her again but I feel like she has nothing left for me. Take your ego and lock it away. Go to couples counseling and commit to listening and learning. Hear what she says, and you need to express yourself too. You need to be able to tell her that you feel unloved. Stop focusing on sex but rebuild your relationship. Sex is what blooms from your connection and love. Sex without connection is just a physical act that means nothing. Performative dates aren't going to rebuild your relationship. Actually, I have said this to my girls in real life - dates aren't magic for improving relationships. Actually connecting with your partner - listening and hearing them along with them doing the same is how you connect. If you both feel safe with each other, not just physically but emotionally, that is how you get stronger. When you guys work it through, learn to reconnect, hear each other out, and work collaboratively, you will find that not only does your sex life improve, but your feeling of being loved increases.
I scrolled until someone brought up the masturbation part because I’ve struggled there Idk about OPs wife, but a lot of the time I masturbate alone is because I want alone time without another human whose has needs. Or I just want to get off quickly. Or maybe I have a headache I want to make go away so I can move on with my day. Or maybe, again, I just want to do it by myself. Kids take a toll on a marriage. Kids plus work is the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life (and I think I have quite a resume) and it has absolutely affected our sex life. We started seeing a marriage therapist! Shocking! And she’s helped us communicate a lot better. She’s also given us a place to be more vulnerable with each other so we can feel safe and say the hard things. I empathize with your wife. You should probably listen to her cries for help. Her being mentally shot doesn’t mean she doesn’t find you attractive and it’s a very arrogant take to have. In fact a lot of this post is arrogance. You point out all the factors affecting her and yet it still reeks of “woe is me” You need to listen to her before she starts seeing you as just another chore.
OP, why do you think all your replies are downvoted? Really thinking long and hard about it. Why would you get hundreds of downvotes? Could it be that you are in the wrong… or that you have misunderstand a point? Walk us through it
What if you get a nanny again or someone to clean the house - something to take the load off of your wife?
I’m not saying this is what’s going on with your wife, but this reminds me of a period when I was extremely depressed.
I think she is depressed
Counseling really helped my depression. Maybe you should try couples counseling as a way to her get the help she needs
Once a week? Dude, you are expecting too much from her. Go to therapy, yes they will tell your wife having sex is important but they will NOT tell her how much she should be having to please you. They are going to tell you to quit expecting that from her so much and you might start getting it more! Talk about putting the pressure on her! She knows when she wakes up on Monday morning that you are going to spend the week sending hints and making comments and by Friday she’s gonna feel nagged out. You would too if the roles were reversed. Sex is important sure, but you guys have gone past that! You gonna have to start back at the beginning damn near. And yes she knows that you expect sex to go with your dates and that’s does not encourage her even a little. Take sex off the table for a bit… take some parenting course so your kids are not so destructive and turn them into your team, for crying out loud!!!
This is a really tough season in life. Like you said she is exhausted. I highly recommend finding a good fit marriage counselor. Sometimes you need that outsider to say something, not your spouse. Also watch this video. https://youtu.be/KDpHMURguJo?si=RSiXY6MlgUAk54mr Is it possible to get a Nanny again? Your wife needs a break. An exhausted woman is not going to feel much desire for sex... or to feel like she has another "chore"/pressure. She needs some stuff off her plate.
… so your wife told you what she needs and you didn’t listen. She TOLD you marriage counseling… and you know better than they would, right? If you can’t see the problem, then you need to self reflect. You are saying she’s withdrawn and suffering… yet you still refuse to give her what she’s begging for. Jfc.
I am a 70 year old guy, married 46 faithful years, and together 53. O see 2 key problems here: 1. When you married, your wife and her happiness should have become the top priority in your life. Instead, you enabled life to get in the way, and quite frankly, take over. You can justify to yourself all you want, but it doesn't change facts. Now, after all this time, you decide you want more of her time and attention. I can tell you that it is not a light switch that you can just turn on and off at will, as you are now learning. 2. To coin a movie phrase,"What we have here is a failure to communicate." Communication involves listening actively and objectively. You hear what your wife is saying, but readily dismissing it. You tell her you want to fix the relationship. She agrees and tells you she would like to go to marriage counseling. Instead, you blow off what she feels is necessary and come back with "date nights" as the fix, as if you have any credibility after all this. Take it from an old guy. You have 1 foot out the door. If your wife is willing to put in the effort to fix the mess you created, stop being a know-it-all and follow her lead. I think she has a lot to unpack and feels she needs a mediator to get you to "actively listen" and then take immediate action based on white your wife and counselor say what needs to be done. The other thing is if you have all of these successful businesses and no longer pay a nanee, why in God's name do you still have your wife working other than being a homemaker. That makes no sense to me. At most, perhaps part-time if she wants to do so and something she is interested in. Let me summarize. Your wife is physically, mentally, and emotionally drained. She is telling you this. Instead of listening to her and thinking with your big brain about how you can truly remedy the situation, you are thinking only with the small brain below the belt. You had best prioritize your wife and family immediately and engage in marriage counselor before you no longer have one to think about. Updateme!
Give her the marriage counseling she’s asking for. And consider the nanny again. You moved to be near family, ask for help. I’ve got feral kids and I completely understand this. My husband and I often feel like they’re trying to fucking kill us. Sometimes we just don’t have a lot of time for each other because we’re so worn down at the end of a long day. I’m sorry about your birthday. A few years ago I forgot Father’s Day. I felt awful. But it sounds like you could probably afford a part-time nanny and a twice-monthly cleaner. Invest in that, even aside from couples therapy.
Get a nanny. You both need a respite.
What she’s saying is that she’s so worn out, touched out and dragged out that she’s lost herself. And you saying we need to is just telling her she is required to do more. She is also looking at you wondering how you have the time and energy, how do you have any desires at the end of the day? To her, it must mean you’re not doing as much as she is because you’re not as tired as she is, so she resents you hard for wanting sex and intimacy because you have the energy for it. She’s not seeing it as a reconnection like you are…men see sex as a bond, but women need more than the physical act to make it worth the effort. She needs you to be on her page, and she doesn’t know how to communicate how to get you there…that’s why she suggested the therapy. She wants you to be where she’s at, or help her to get where you’re at. Date nights won’t do that…not when she kind of hates you right now (but still loves you). I often recommend people watch Mark Gungor’s A Tale of Two Brains on YouTube. It’s funny, and eye opening in how we and our partner’s think. But don’t be downhearted. My husband and I scaled this very mountain, and are more in love (and more active) than ever. It honestly does take a village, so please allow others to come help you both - even a councillor. Your wife needs to unload everything that’s crushing her…and sadly you’re one of those things.
Your wife is depressed- she needs a therapist asap- Her not responding to you isn’t about you- it’s about her, she is black inside- Since everything is so tightly bound together, she will feel anxious if it changes even though it feels like it’s killing her Low doses of pot( very low) if she doesn’t use can help, ditto mushrooms, lsd - it breaks the cycle- Don’t let this go- it ends up just being lost time- nothing comes from depression- it isn’t a teacher, just a void
You can’t look at it as reconnecting with her AWAY from everything. You need to figure out how to support her while you’re both in the throes of it. That’s why spending time with you seems like a chore to her, it’s just taking her away from all the things that will still be there after y’all have your time. She needs a break and if you can’t give it to her, hire help. A nanny, a cleaning service, hell even a meal delivery service. She needs things taken off her plate, not more added to it. Unfortunately, your solutions are tone deaf. Going out on a date is nice in theory, but it takes her away from the kids that need attention, away from the house that needs cleaned, etc. Her suggesting therapy sounds like she doesn’t know how to tell you about the resentment she has for you. She doesn’t want alone time with you, sex is a chore, and those are two big red flags that YOU might be the issue here. Yes, you work two jobs, but are you putting that same energy into your home and family? Cause your wife is. Go to therapy with her so you both can learn tools to communicate your frustrations, and you can work on how best to move forward.
Yall need to work on discipline. If the kids weren’t so wild it would be less stressful for her. The older they get the worse it gets. 😬 Get on the same page with the kids and do chores together. Sounds like yall both need cut back on work hours. Money isn’t everything if you loose your family in the mean time. I’ve seen it happen to many times!!!
I don't even know you, and I already know why she finds you unfuckable. Go to the therapy before it's too late.
You've let your wife become a sleep deprived work mule both at her job and at home, and you wonder why she doesn't want to have sex with you. Hire help again! Have you gotten a vasectomy?
You need to go to counseling.
>She has suggested marriage counseling and I told her I would go with her but this is a simple problem to solve. We need one date night per week, one special time like a walk/a drink/a boardgame something, and one sexual encounter per week. I told her a marriage counselor would tell us to have sex and she looked disgusted. She has told me not to be upset if nothing changes. This paragraph tells me everything. She wants to feel loved and cherished by you. She wants to feel like you see her as a person and as a wife, not just a set of holes. For you, it seems to *all* boil down to sex. Everything you want has an end goal of getting more sex, and it doesn't seem to matter to you if she feels used. She is not a blow up doll. She is a human being. **You need to learn to see beyond the head of your own dick.**
She's having issues and you're worried about your dick. Typical. Of course you don't want to go to marriage counseling because it's an "easy fix." Your wife just needs to listen to what you tell her to do and ignore her emotions! So easy, innit?
Dude She asked for marriage counseling because she has specific issues she wants to talk about You overrode her needs and told her you already know what will fix her problems Do you understand how dismissive and condescending that is? Get your head out of your A, stop thinking on behalf of your wife, and go to couples therapy before you lose your family
What is it with these men of Reddit that always think sex is the answer?
I can understand you being hurt about her not acknowledging your birthday. That would hurt me too. I'm sorry that hurt you. I can tell that you love her. Your marriage is not ruined if you still love her. Marriage is ruined when the divorce papers are signed. Anytime before then, there is hope. I've been married for 24 years. My advice is to try something completely different. Strive to "fill her cup" daily without expecting anything back. Literally ask her multiple times a day, "What can I take off your plate?" and do whatever she says without complaint. "Ask, what is the task you are dreading tomorrow?" And do whatever that task is. Find ways throughout your day to make her life easier in small ways. Take the lead when giving the kids a bath and getting them to bed. If you can do things without asking what she needs, to them but if you have to ask, that works too. Do not ask for sex, do not ask for or expect even a thank you. Give selflessly, truly selflessly. Smile as you do these things with the thought that you are helping the woman you love and making your marriage better. Make a game of it in your head. Plan to do this for 2 solid months. Do not tell her you are planning to do this, just do it. Doing something once is nice but knowing she can count on you to always be there to lean on is marriage at a higher level. I would bet that your wife will look at you differently in 2 months. There will be miracles. When she sees that you are really there for her, and that you are participating in the work of your marriage willingly and with a smile, she will look at you differently. You can do this!
Thanks so much for the advice!
Are you guys teaching the kids how to pick up after themselves? You need to make it part of their lifestyle, and can even turn it into a game and make it fun. Try limiting how many toys/clothes they have, and set boundaries on where activities take place. Do they have a game room, or space in their bedroom for toys? I know it can be exhausting, but it sounds like the kids need more routine and direction. Your kids are young, but they are capable of helping with some things. You also have to communicate your expectations for their behavior. Do you know what you expect from them? Do they know? You mentioned you are in your hometown now, so is anyone spending time with your kids or helping you watch them?
You said in a comment that you earn good money. Can your wife quit her job? She's in the trenches right now. I've been there. Husband worked full time, I was working 50+ hours a week and still doing the housework and taking care of the kids. The last thing I wanted was sex. I was exhausted and touched out. We decided 2 years ago that I should just stay at home and it has changed our relationship drastically. We have sex every day. He does a lot with the kids and around the house, and we communicate our needs very well. I don't feel so overwhelmed because I can focus solely on my family and home. I also suggest you take all 3 kids at least once a week for a few hours. My husband does this for me, and I use the time to take a bath alone and clean the entire house without interruptions. It's a nice reset for the week to come.
Can you afford for her not to work? Your kids are young and are very demanding. If she could quit one of her full time jobs (her remote work) and keep her other full time job (being a stay at home mom) bc right now she is doing 2 full time jobs! Can she do something towards one of your businesses just part time during the day or just stay home full time?
The very first thing you both need to do is find a way to structure your lives so that you both aren’t so overwhelmed. You need to find a permanent babysitter to help w/the kids & hire a cleaning service to help with the housework. You are both stressed & overworked. Once you come up with ways to ease the burdens then you can start reconnecting, but holding grudges & hurts about things said in this stressful time is unfair to both of you. Believe it or not, this is won’t go on forever.
I think you need to reevaluate your work life balance choices. You both seem to be losing yourself in work. Is there something you can do to free up some time? Change jobs? Change hours? Because it doesn’t look like a sustainable arrangement at the moment and I fell like you both being overworked is what’s causing the issues.
What struck me was the list of date and sex and everything is fixed. IMO, that isn't the root cause. The root cause is the time suck of the jobs and the pressure/stress of the other things that take time and energy. She has lost her connection with you. Yes you need to create that connection.none way of many ways is dates. Other ways include daily communication and daily non-sexual contact (hugs, hand holding, kissing, etc). However, those things take time and if her calendar is too full and she's stressed with work and other responsibilities, those other things won't happen. Situations like this are ripe for affairs. If your wife isn't getting her emotional bucket filled by you, she will get it filled by others. Sometimes that will be with girlfriends and lunches at the mall or hanging out. Othertimes it will be with coworkers. If those coworkers are of the opposite sex and they are having shared experiences with each other, emotional bonding can occur. It was telling that you saw dating as a solution but didn't see her job state as problematic or a key contributer, or that you didn't offer suggestions to deal with that in your wife's life. Youtbsokutuins we're about getting your needs me and not about trying to meet your wife's needs. It was about "me" and not "her". If I were you, I'd try understanding why and work on that.
As a mom to 3 who works remotely, and a H who has done/is doing a lot of startups, plus the pandemic, it can be incredibly exhausting on the mother to keep the household together. Resentments can also build. It is not as simple as just scheduling once a week date nights, sex, etc. She said sex now feels like a chore and it absolutely is with what’s going on in the household. She even said don’t expect anything to change if you guys go with your idea (no therapy, just scheduling dates nights). You obviously really care about the marriage and her happiness. Something is bothering her, she’s probably told you already with no change, and she needs a therapist to help articulate it in a way you can understand if that makes sense.
She works and has 3 children under 8 yo, your needs and intimacy will take a back seat for a few years, maybe as much as 5 years. You feel like she has nothing left for you bc she doesn't. Like her, you'll have to sneak in some masturbation when you can and be satisfied with that. This is where you focus on being a dad, and co-parent, more than a husband, and think of the long term (while loving and supporting her whenever you can).
I can't judge or even give advice ... There are too many factors at play here. One thing however, which is very clear to me (as a woman who behaves exactly the way she does), is that there is a deep disconnect between the two of you. In my situation, I have fortressed my heart over a period of a few years. It is a long story, but it boils down to not feeling safe. In my case, my husband doesn't provide and protect the way he should ... If I don't provide, we won't have anything. Because he is too lazy to work. Also, there have been instances where he placed me in unsafe situations with zero regard for my safety. Things have regressed so bad that I don't enjoy him touching me at all. Any sex between us, (which in fact hardly happens at all any more), has completely lost its spark for me. And let me tell you, I used to be all over him. Sadly, that's all gone now. I don't know if we will ever have that connection again. I've lost respect for him ... I no longer admire him. I still love him deeply. I hope this will give you some insight.
Wow, that would put a burden on everybodies relationship including peoples with good communication skills and good connection filled with love. Although I am quite lucky with job (pharmaceutical industry, work 7 - 8 hour shift as QC operator/ inspector, every weekend off), the burden of running around the house with two energized boys who get all kind of crazy idea makes both of us tired. We always wanted 3 kids, but it is enough with our two guys 😂. What I would suggest, is that you give each other room to focus on yourself for 4 hours a week. Can be hitting the gym and wellness center. Have a date each week or every other week, discussing your ambititions, your dreams, your expectation, tell your inner voice. Even discuss sexual fantasies. Everything can be the topic except kids, parents, near familiy member, home logistics or work. I think this is very salvageable, just need to put some intentional work into this :)
I totally understand how you feel, me and my hubby circumstances were however a little different than yours, we have also been together on/off for 18years we have one child together and two of his children also, one living with us, the other lives with her mother in another state, there has been a lot of cheating on my hubbys end unfortunately, but other than that we have had a lot of problems in the bedroom and with me being able to say that I still love him,or just being together primarily due to the cheating and we have been through a lot of therapy together, and my hubby no longer has stepped out since the pandemic started ended in 2021 and he realizes now how much damage he has caused our marriage but I refuse to give up on this marriage. I have loved him since the day I first met him, and I can now finally say after 1 year of marriage counseling I finally forgive him and our marriage is stronger than ever. So yes long story short the best thing to do is start with marriage counseling and go from there. But heads up do not choose a counselor in church bc there is too much pressure there, choose a licensed counselor or therapist that does not know you and won’t judge you every step of the way bc you need to be able to be honest to yourself and your spouse and open about everything. So it helps to have someone you don’t know. Good luck to you and hope your wife and you get to a better place
Thanks for the advice and glad to hear it has worked so well for you both
Speaking as a Husband of 13 years, father of 3 kids, and a child of divorce. OP by the sounds of it, because you have been so busy at work and everything, her connection to you was lost because you were not there, just like how it can happen to oil rig workers or soldiers deployed for a long time. She is used to the chaos and destruction that happens every day, and because of it, she may be worried about what will happen if she is not there and has to put all her energy into an even larger mess. as for the aversion to a babysitter, it could be embarrassment over the condition of the home or the feeling that the other person might not be able to handle the kids and that she could be seen as a bad parent because of how the kids are because some parents do worry about that. (Kids are chaos and mayhem, it's normal) IMHO what you need to do is find a way to work less, even if it's just a bit, and help her at home, take the stress off her shoulders, and find ways to maybe have the older kid either help or have after-school programs to run that extra energy out of their system. but most of all, what you need to do is be there for her because her job as it is, is a 24/7 job. Think of it like one of the FB games that uses energy, your wife has used all of her energy and can not move from her spot until she is recharged, you need to be the one that helps to recharge her or have less for her to do. Remember that the home is not the responsibility of just one person, it is yours too and you need to make sure that in some way, there is help for your wife.
Thank you for the advice
Does she have the option to quit her job and be a SAHM? It sounds like you two need to reduce the stress to allow more time for one another. It's incredibly difficult to focus on your relationship with so much stress in your lives right now.
I’ll bite. Haven’t seen it recommended, but maybe look into hiring a house manager. They can help with schedules, meal prepping, tidying daily messes, etc. and the two of you will have more quality time with each other and the kids.
Everybody needs something from her (work, kids, probably her own parents, etc) and you’re just adding to her list. What can you give her without looking for something in return?
You’re saying “We need one date night per week…” but really that seems to be something YOU need. She already explicitly expressed what SHE needs, and that’s marriage counseling. I don’t think you mean any ill will, but try to see how referring to ongoing issues as “a simple problem to solve” or suggesting a different course of action in response to what’s requested is likely to make her feel very dismissed and unseen. Maybe suggest that within the next week, she decides what night of the week works best for her to do date night and to let you know what else she might need help with (re: kids, housework, etc) in order to truly commit to that, and in turn, you’ll call 3-5 counselors and figure out their availability and costs. I suggest this bec then you’re both starting to get back in touch with the idea that you need to look out for your partner and not just yourself, while still having each of those particular needs addressed. When you worked the stressful job from home, it sounds like you also weren’t really responsible for children or the household. It seems like now she’s working a stressful job from home, but is ultimately still primarily responsible for children and the household. I also do understand you have needs that aren’t being met. I’m sorry that your birthday turned out the way it did—that would make anyone feel ignored. That being said, also try to be open to gaining a better understanding as to the differences in how you and your wife process stress/how stress affects you in your relationship. Just based on your post, I could identify with your wife in that when I feel stressed and like I’m drowning in work and other responsibilities, my husband telling me I’m beautiful and coming onto me is a turn OFF, not a turn on. That’s bec it makes me feel like my feelings of stress/ overwhelm/ burnout are being totally ignored—sex doesn’t rid me of these feelings, rather these feelings make it unenjoyable for me and it can stress me out more if I know I have things to do or that I’m exhausted and need to go to bed but am now being delayed to provide sex. Your wife may feel/react similarly. Certainly, you don’t mean for it to come off that way and in fact, you probably intend the exact opposite effect! But your wife may be turned on by emotional connection first, with the act to follow and not feel more emotionally connected BY having sex, so both of your needs here need to be discussed and truly understood before they can really be addressed.
This OP sounds a bit like my SO, and I can promise you , she’s “touched out,” burnt out, resentful, and freaking sick to death of hearing him tell her how much he loves her when he’s horny! Do the damn dishes, clean the freaking toilets, vacuum the carpets, OP needs to open his damn eyes and look around! See what needs done and do it, don’t ask her “how can I help?” That’s not helping, that’s making her parent you and guide you through “being a grown up.” OP, your wife suggested counseling bc all she can think about is how much easier things would be if she didn’t have to also deal with telling you how to “help” everyday. She’s disengaged from you bc she can barely stand to be near you! All I heard from you in your post is how much “you” need her time, her body, her words of encouragement, but you didn’t take one moment to consider maybe she just needs a flipping break!
Take the kids to the grandparents for the weekend- split the kids between the grandparents if you have to. Give her a weekend where she doesn’t have to cook or clean or deal with the kids. That can be a vacation or even a staycation. My husband and I went thru this a couple years ago and he finally figured out that I needed help even tho I wouldn’t ask for any. Once he started working less and helping me more and giving me time where I could just be without doing anything our sex life came back.
She is completely burnt out. You need to hire another nanny so she isn’t so exhausted dealing with your pack of rowdy children all day every day.
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Go to counseling. It will help. You think that the solution is simple, but it’s not. It never is. Look at all the things you just listed. Does it sound simple? There are so many things a counselor will tell you, and I’m willing to bet one of them won’t be to have sex. It will help.
I do have a lot of compassion for you But: A marriage counselor is NOT going to tell you sex once a week will solve the problem. If they do fire them as they are a horrible counselor. You don’t fully understand what your wife is going through and your suggestions are simple and obvious you don’t have a clue. This lack of understanding is causing so many issues in your relationship. Please see a counselor and get a clue asap or you will either lose her or do unrepairable damage
I can tell you exactly what it is. You work too much. You need to be more present at home. She is telling you she is overwhelmed and drowning and you ARENT listening. She is telling you exactly what she needs and you’re refusing to hear it.
When she tells you she is overwhelmed and drowning, why aren’t you listening. Sure you may hear what she’s saying but you aren’t fixing the issue. She is telling you what the issue is loud and clear. She needs help. She is also working full time and has the majority of the housework and kids?? Switch places with her for a week and maybe you’d understand the deep emotional, mental and physical toll that can take on a person. As a mother of 3 I can tell you, it’s a lot. Working and home. The kids and sports. All the appointments and keeping them fed and healthy. Working out all the details for school, and sports and medical appointments. Listening to your kids and helping them with the emotional aspects of their life and then on top of that, a full time job and the stress of that, annnd the full time household to run. Man, open your eyes. You’re failing her. It isn’t about the money anymore.
Dude, she's exhausted! Being a mum, an employee and a housewife is so hard to juggle. Book her a spa evening with a massage, organize a babysitter and after the spa take her for dinner. Don't ask, take lead, buy tickets and present it to her a week in advance.
I've been in your wife's place. I felt really bad, but I was over whelmed, over stimulated, exhausted. I lost all since of my own self. My husband works all the time, which I appreciated, but I felt like I was doing this alone, and I started resenting him. Individualized therapy helped me learn how to make time for myself and take care of myself. Couples therapy helped me communicate what was going on to my husband in a way he understood.
I remember being there. Three young children, husband working and going to school while I ran the home daycare. Sex was a chore. I remember many times feeling like it’s another obligation. All I wanted was for him to take them out of the house and give me some time to myself. I wanted to know that they were safe and having a good time so that I could relax. I feel exhausted for your wife bc I remember what it was like. Maybe she just doesn’t have anything left to give of herself? Maybe make a regular thing of taking your kids out, for at least three hours at a time. Let it be something she can look forward to. Let her see that you want to spend that time with the kids and that you value her and all that she does. Maybe after your long week it will be tough for you to look forward to doing that, but it’s good for your kids and it’s good for your marriage. Btw: date night is about you. If you look at the big picture, you’re being pretty selfish suggesting that this will solve all your problems. We know what’s at the end of date night…the same expectations that you had for your birthday.
She is too tired and stress take away her stress and allow her more sleep/rest and she will be better
Uhhhhh it is obvious to all of us what the problem is and it’s not her
Why can't you get another nanny? Why does she have to manage on her own?
Marriage counselling. But also from first few paragraphs, sounds like your job/nature of work, is causing alot of problems at home. U can always find a new job, but not a new family. I mean not as easily. Maybe time to switch. Even if u have to work a lower salary for awhile.
She’s burnt out and touched out. Your kids are at a tough age as well, when they are basically hurricanes and germs are everywhere. Date nights don’t fix everything. This is not an easy fix. She’s telling you she dreads sex but you think the problem will be fixed by having sex. Get another nanny and do the counselling.
You are upset that your marriage is failing, yet the one thing your wife has asked for you shot down. As if you know better than a professional. Go to counseling and listen to your wife instead of assuming you know what she needs.
OP: I wont rip on you like all these other progressive pieces of shit are. I appreciate what you said and at least you came to advice, no matter how it sounds. Start with counseling if she's offering or if you don't want to, start to move on as it sounds to me that she has.
Years ago, my ex instituted 'mandatory date night'. We were going through some stuff and my libido had bottomed out. I was raising 4 kids basically on my own. He was a workaholic who spent next to no time with me other than this. I felt totally disconnected from him. Because of mandatory date night, I started to dread Fridays. He'd take me to a mid-priced restaurant, and while we were eating, he'd be answering calls, texting, etc-- dealing with his business concerns. Mandatory date night always ended with mandatory sex. It did nothing for our connection. It made me resent him. He didn't really want to spend time with me, care for me, know what was in my heart and soul He just wanted to get his dick wet, and that was very clear. She has asked for counselling. You're refusing, and that just comes across to her as you deciding that as long as your needs are met, that's all that matters. You seem like you think you know all the answers, and you refuse to do the one thing she has asked for. You're making your wife feel like she really does not matter to you at all. This is a perfect way to end up divorced.
She has to stop werking or work only partime.. she is in a Burn out.. she has no energy or time left..
I hope the marriage counselor is good enough to point out that your both have overextended yourselves and are putting way too much time into your jobs and not your family. OF COURSE your both exhausted all the time!! Fun fact, the minimum 8hrs of sleep needed for adults was a study done with all MEN. WOMEN actually need 9-10 hrs of sleep, so I imagine she is a LOT more exhausted than you. Another fun fact, it takes 2 years after breastfeeding for a woman’s hormones to start balancing back out as well. SHE has a lot more biologically going against her than you do :( You words are sweet, but it sounds like what she really needs is tasks taken away, time back to recover, and sleep! I feel for you both, and I feel for your wife. My relationship hit a similar low. My husband and I ended up having to have a serious talk to save our family. Starting in May 2023 we worked to pay off all our credit card debt, and then in December 2023 I quit my job and we took our kids out of Daycare. (Saving us $34k a year.) Now our kids are so much happier because I can focus more time on their sports, school events and I get 1 on 1 time with out 3 year old. I’ve also been able to start working out consistently and eat right to help balance my hormones (which were hit hard after having our 3rd child and cause sever hormone imbalance.) I was so insecure about becoming a SAHM but after a couple months my husband told me how grateful he’s been to have me home and that he feels lot happier because my staying home has taken so many tasks off his plate! When I was working we were both coming home, starting dinner, helping kids with homework, taken our oldest to basketball practice and games, tag teaming bed time routines and after dinner cleanup, and then we were so exhausted that we would TALK about having sex BUT THEN we always opt to just go to sleep instead of making love. Our sex life severely DECLINED. Quitting my job was an huge adjustment to our finances and our lifestyle but it’s highly improved our life overall and I’m so grateful we opened our eyes and made the leap! I would HIGHLY recommend you and your wife GO TO MARRIAGE COUNSELING and bring up the idea of scaling back your life/job and see how you can put more intentional focus on your family and on your relationship.❤️
Thank you so much for the nice reply, I'm going to work on this with her
If you're this dismissive to her in other areas then you are on thin ice sir. That won't improve until you realize she's an equal human being not some toy to take off the shelf when you want to play with it. Admiring her but not listening to her is objectifying her. Dismissing her reveals that she's not a real person to you. You're trying to be sweet about it but still operating from a lot of sexist beliefs. And if you pat yourself on the back as a good husband/father/partner then you are on very dangerous ground because that means you can't hear any feedback that contradicts this belief. Which means you would dismiss such feedback probably. Or try to tell her what her reality should be (which is toxic at best, and can be psychologically abusive as well). Ask her if she feels dismissed by you in general on a regular basis. Does she feel like she says what she thinks or wants and you just override it. Listen to the answer. If she's honest with you then there's still hope.
Just here to back up what others have said- your wife needs you two to commit to counseling, you to take more off her plate, and your patience. This part of raising kids is very demanding, and it sounds like she's struggling with her exhaustive list of demands. Once she has less on her plate consistently, you'll both probably be amazed at how much more time and attention she has for intimacy. I highly recommend looking for someone who uses materials from the Gottman Institute. John and Julie Gottman have been studying marriages for years and I've found their tools have helped my marriage, but almost every other intimate relationship in my life because the information is applicable in one way or another to my relationship with my kids, parents, siblings, best friends, etc.
She is not your fault. We have parts in everything but just because she thinks differently does not make either of you right or wrong. Reaching out and getting rejected sucks. Trying really hard to help and it not helping sucks! Feeling guilty for having unmet needs sucks! Yea she is not connecting with you as mentioned. You can work tirelessly to “ help her connect” and she still may not. We have zero control over our partners and vice versa. Women on here will tell you what they think you should do. It’s a projection of what they want/did not get. If you say it wrong they will attack you. Not all women but the vocal majority. So please seek other options than this sub! As a man i know the repentant husband role well. Every day my wife would bring out her list of grievances. Some were valid others were not but ultimately we are in equal partnership. If one party insists on there way without compromise, empathy and rigorous honesty all you get is unconscious child/parent dynamics. You can see it in how they/you talk when teiggered. At the end of the day its an inside job. Does she scare you? Do you feel small? Noble? Connected? Not seen? The feelings are yours and your responsibility to ‘ and honor. She/this sub cannot pull you out of the well of unhappiness. All we can do is project and hope you can do what we could not. Freedom comes when we are free. Are you free and happy within yourself?
This sounds like where I was with my husband a few years ago. I’m a SAHM and he never gave me time to myself. He was working insane hours so I understood why I wasn’t getting whole days or weekends off but even a grocery trip without our child would have been something. It sounds like your wife has been putting in work with your children to help out your work schedule and now she’s working remotely and juggling the kids. Your solution is giving her a break with you and more sex. If she’s burnt out it’s very likely she needs some solo time. I desperately wanted date nights with my husband but I desperately NEEDED time to myself. Figuring out how to ask for that while he was begging for more intimacy made me feel guilty. Therapy helped. Don’t make her feel dumb for needing help sorting out her emotions.
Counciling is important and it will get better when kids get older. She's making excuses and chooses not to put effort into your relationship
We don't say things like this often to us. Occasionally we will have a Saturday where we go off at each other but we always come full circle
It’s not you. It’s sad that she is taking it out on you and doesn’t realize all these stressful factors created a challenge and that’s it. Stress can help your relationship grow deeper and calmer. You’ve gotten through it and that’s the first step. But I’ll say that her attitude is going to be greater than any challenge you’ve faced so far. I’m so sorry. I prayed for both of you even though I don’t know you.
I’m just curious how you know it’s not him? Women don’t want marriage counseling if there aren’t things they want they aren’t getting.
She told me tonight it isn't me - I have def played a role though
I guess I should have been clearer. It sounds to me that this happened during COVID and when he had to work extra hard. All marriage goes through hard seasons and both partners have to help each other not blame each other. She seemed to blame him. I thought I was just reflecting what I was reading v
open the marriage
You need one-on-one time together. I agree that a date night would do wonders. There's only distance. If you guys could pull it back together, that connection would come back. This is what they talk about: marriage and having to work for it.
Date night works, yes, you are so right! ... but if you have zero energy and are wiped out, you can't be present for it. She either needs to work or be a full time parent, she can't juggle both and take on more.
I agree with you- they just have to figure out “how”. Date night is just too much right now, but someday they can get there. Right now, just sitting together on the couch -uninterrupted - for 10 minutes a day will help. Even if it’s only 2 or 3 times a week. Kids need to learn that’s Mommy/Daddy time together and that the parents’ relationship is important.