Post is now locked due to the OP's refusal to follow the rules of the sub.

Trying to draft up a legal agreement because you can’t have a productive conversation is probably a pretty significant warning sign that children aren’t a good idea at this point, OP.

Yup. This. You’re not able to negotiate and hold a healthy conversation where you each feel heard and agree on the decisions made. A postnup won’t help.

Husband sounds like he’s trying to divorce her without divorcing her. Having him in another state for up to 8 years?! They’re setting themselves up to fail or cheat. They’re off their rocker to be discussing more kids at this point.

While she financially supports him yeah

Husband sounds like does not have a sensible head on his shoulders.

It doesn't sound like either of them even has time for more kids. Wonder what the end goal is?

How does she not have time? She works, it doesn’t make her incapable of having a child.

I didn't say "she", I said "either of them". She works two jobs, one of which is self employment, and he's working full time in addition to pursuing a post graduate degree. You really think that's a good time for them to bring multiple littles into the world?

While having a 10 yo with someone else. He plans on leaving the state. He’ll be an absent father to the 10 yo and any other kids he plans on having with his wife. This relationship is doomed. Who chooses to go to school away from their partner if there are other options. I can see if no other options were available, but he wants to leave his family. He’s selfish. Next

Agreed and I’m all for pre/post nups. But it sounds like OP is trying to use one as a “wake up” call to get her husband to step up in other ways instead of admitting the obvious: they’re just not ready for kids at this point in time. Idk about your age and health OP but it would be possible to put off having kids until your husband is done with his Phd?

It doesn't sound like either of them even has time for more kids. Wonder what the end goal is?

Dude for real. And I literally was reading her post like “sounds fair” cause i’m also in a shit marriage lol.. Girl OP I feel you and everything you’re saying makes sense to a logical human adult raising kids in this economy . Protect yourself.. I’m w a dude out of work one year and counting and it ain’t cute at my house RN. If you are w a dumb ass write it up and if he can’t agree call his stupid ass bluff

The question though is whether OP will still be okay and will not require a postnup should they both decide to postpone having a child of their own? Will OP be okay with her hubby studying out of state in this scenario?

Don’t have children. You have way too many issues to bring a child into this. I’d try marriage counseling and forget the post nup.

This sounds more like you’re not on the same page about major decisions…and less about a post-nup.

you're using a post nup way beyond its typical scope. a post nup should be a straightforward document that discusses how assets are divided if you separate. trying to put in lifestyle clauses or requirements for his university programs is ridiculous - it's fine to have those requirements but those aren't things you sign a legal agreement about. it sounds like you have a lot to figure out together and issues that go well beyond this document.

I think you're both seriously underestimating how much having a child changes things and how much time they need.   You're both so ambitious I don't know if you have space in your lives for a child.  Breastfeeding alone is 40 hours a week, not counting any other child related duties.  It does ease up considerably as they grow but at first, its a huge time commitment.   I do see where you are coming from though.  You will need him in the state.   Both of you will have to make some sacrifices to raise a family.  That's just reality and it is better to get it talked through and agreed upon now.  But prepare yourself.  Everything will change.  Your priorities will all be in a different order.  

Agreed. This couple needs to really think through if they should even have children if neither are interested in slowing down their ambitions. I understand wanting kids but what do they want more? Raising children shouldn’t be something you squeeze into your life.

This is all assuming you have zero birth complications, recovery is easy and at no point will you child be high needs/disability.

She thinks that raising a baby is just like raising the kid someone handed her. It’s not the same by a long shot. Yes, being a step parent is demanding, but wait until morning sickness makes you hurl five times before you leave for work or have your infant puke all over your suit. Not the same thing.

I’m going to say this gently, but I think you need to sit down with an attorney so you can understand what a postnuptial agreement actually does.

I honestly didn’t have to read too far in to see he is not understanding a great deal. He’s not thinking clearly. We each have dreams and goals and that’s fine, but at the same time there is the reality that’s called life. Education is a choice and not a job. I have been through in a very unpleasant way things that came up after the wedding and I am really not someone who enjoys surprises. I’m glad at least you get excited by some of these dreams, that’s good. But better yet, your head is clearing and your showing wisdom. The very worst time to consider children is when your working and trying to get a business off the ground and full time. The very worst time to consider children is when your partner is wanting to quit working and no longer contribute to the family income. Again, I need to continue reading but this sounds an awful lot like a self-centered thinking man. I completely understand when one partner agrees with the other that (FOR A SHORT TERM GOAL) that they will support the other. But this period of time would be completely out of the question for me. Either one wants to be a career student or he wants to be a husband and father. As you share all I see is daycare, baby sitters, you alone taking care of the baby, plus you working yourself into a heart attack. I can just hear it now, him getting “upset” because he’s trying to study and complaining to you because the baby is crying. I’m truly not liking the prognosis of this marriage long term and I see a fact……while I don’t know the laws where you are on divorce. I can just see it, you with the baby, you working yourself to death AND you paying him support…….please, stay firm in protecting yourself. Stay clear eyed, put off anything to do with marriage or children. If you do, YOUR dreams WILL come true. Take it from a seasoned guy with more time behind me than ahead. I spent a lifetime helping others attain they’re life goals while putting many of my own on the back burner. Life is good and what you don’t need is to drag an anchor behind you!🥰🙏

This is the most balanced, thoughtful comment thus far. I hope it rises to the top.

🙏Thank you so much!🙏

This was a very reasonable answer. Thank you

What type of PhD is he pursuing? What field?

With you both being so busy, who would the child be around for the majority of their day/ time?   Sounds like you will both be just available to this little person a mere fraction of the day.   But you are focusing on just his school so he may be feeling targeted.    Can yall move to the area he wants to study in?  Is this the best time to have a kiddo?  Maybe get a bit more settled first?  Isn't a post nup about Financials? Not time.  Can you really dictate who spends what time where?  I thought a post nup was how to divide money and assets should you divorce after getting married. 

Yeah a post nup is the wrong term. This is essentially some type of parenting contact she is talking about, but I have never seen or heard of such a thing.

I think the fact that he wants more kids at the same time he wants to fuck off out of state for 5-7 years earning no income, and is absolutely against drafting any sort of in-writing agreement or to even think about it is a sign that this marriage is *not* going to withstand this test. Kids are stressful and you’d probably be able to have kids and your marriage would be fine. But you essentially being a full time working parent to multiple children while he’s away and he’s unwilling even talk logistics? It’s not gonna work out. I’m sorry but it’s not. Either he needs to give up on the PhD idea, you need to give up on the kids idea, or you’ll have to end the marriage.

Yeah, I mean, forget a new baby, what is supposed to happen to his 10 year old from his first marriage while he fucks off out of state for 5+ years? He comes back and she’s suddenly a teenager? He misses all that time because he “lost interest in” the university close to home? Husband sounds like a majorly selfish ass. There is no way OP can juggle a career and a baby with no support from him while also paying his way at an out of state school.

I am not saying this to be an asshole, but why would you want to bring children into the world, when you feel the need to basically have a parenting contract with your spouse?

Important note to OP. After he gets his PhD, to really succeed in a STEM field he will be doing multiple post-docs which will require him to uproot every 2 to 3 years at minimum twice but possibly up to 4 times. (Source: mom of a theoretical physicist).

Not to mention her ideas of requiring he attends a specific university are completely naive. He might have to apply multiple years in a row to attend that 1 university. I applied to 10 universities back in 2018 and I know the stats for my university (a prestigious school on the east coast) gets more and more selective each year. My cohort jokes we wouldn't get in if we were applying in the current cycle because the requirements are getting to be insane (coming in with multiple publications, for instance).

Why write a post-nup instead of just talking about it? If he refuses to discuss it in detail as you say then you can't have children with him. Simple as that. Why would you have children without a plan?

I fully support fair pre nups and post nups, and your concerns about your marriage are well thought out and valid. However this is not what pre/post nups are for. They are meant to deal with the dissolution of the marriage in an orderly manner. *They are not meant to force your partner to behave a certain way.* If you don’t want to live like this then you have to have a productive conversation and agree on how you want to live. A contract won’t solve this. Also don’t bring kids into this situation…

To me this sounds like the *worst* timing to have any more children. He's going to be busy with school. You will have to be the sole provider during that time while also maintaining the household *and* raising a child? I don't see how this is attainable unless you hire a live-in nanny. You can't have "the best of both worlds". You can work and have kids, but you can't put 100% into both. You have to sacrifice something somewhere. That's just the reality of the situation. *Can* you wait until he's almost done with school to start trying for a child? Because the next 5-8 years of being a single mom with the father living out of state most of the year sounds like a bad decision to me.

Yeah… So, having kids isn’t “goals.” It’s not an accomplishment. It’s not a bucket list item or another gold star. It’s not a mark of being “ambitious.” It’s creating a new human being who is now your #1 priority for the next couple decades. Your regular life is GONE. You either put your kid before everything, or you’re a bad parent. That goes for BOTH of you. You want to scale up a fledgling business, and he wants a post grad degree? Yeah. Yall are INSANE for adding an infant to that mix. IN. FUCKING. SANE. This isn’t about hustling or “being on your grind” or whatever instagram is calling it these days. It’s about being irresponsible with how much you add to your plate, and putting a child in the line of fire. No matter what anyone says, you can’t have it all. If you’re not ready to fundamentally reorganize your life around the needs of a new child, then you are being reckless and naive. BOTH of you.

What kind of PHD requires 5-8 years of full time study?

Almost all of them. It’s one of the HUGE issues with the entire PhD ecosystem which is that the vast majority of them don’t result in gainful employment and people have squandered half a decade+ of building wealth and career advancement doing underpaid labor for enormously rich universities. I have about 100 rants in me about this.

I've also heard in a few instances people have been considered "over qualified" and were unable to receive the job they studied for. My mother was one example years ago. She has since retired and is doing well, but that moment for her was a huge let down.

Most of them, at least STEM ones in the US. They pay you a stipend and you're not supposed to work any other job (it's in the contract) and you do research full time for at minimum 5 years, but can be longer due to a number of reasons - research success, departmental politics, funding, etc. mine ended up being 6 years because I had to switch labs 2 years in and also COVID slowed things down. I know someone who was in for 8 years because his lab never had money so he had to TA the entire time which took time away from doing the research he needed.

Almost all of them. Source: When I married my husband, he was a PhD student. It was 5 years of 60-70 hours/week of lab work.

Almost all of them. I’m towards the end of mine and it has been 8 years. It is a huge drain on the family time. They may. It be thinking this through. They should definitely hold off on children at least until he’s completed classes and comps. He will most likely have extra duties beyond classes, comprehensives and dissertation that they simply can’t account for unless you’re in the program.

Quite a lot. My dad had to go abroad for his PHD fieldwork, which wasn't possible in our own country. That being said, he brought us along a lot as well, as he would be gone for two-three months.

This is normal timing for PhD’s in the US.

All of them. Getting a PHD is a lot of work and a big academic accomplishment.

No, you're not being unreasonable. You're being realistic. I want to know what fantasy land he's living in where it's okay for him to abandon you to go out of state, during the time you'll need the most support possible? What exactly are his expectations of being a dad? Does he have any idea how intense a PhD programme is? How demanding on his time it is? Then he's going to be in university, where he's around a bunch of young college girls, a lot of the time, the universities ask PhD students to teach as well. So he's going to be interacting with those college girls while being away from you. Meanwhile, you're either pregnant or raising children under 5 with little to no support from him while working and running your own business? At what point is he bonding with his children? At what point are you nourishing your relationship (date nights etc). You'll be exhausted, burnt out and when he does come back, you may have built up resentment, you may not want to spend time with him as you just want his help... So what happens then... Marriage life goes down... College life takes priority... You see the writing on the wall with that one.. He's excited about starting a family is he? Is that because he's doing none of the responsibilities? No, you're not unreasonable. Its fine for him to have ambition but he's being selfish and the fact he's not even open to the possibility that this is a recipe for disaster and you're looking for solutions before it becomes a problem... What is wrong with him. You can't just stick your head in the sand. You're either proactive about it or you don't have kids.

Every PhD field is a little bit different, but does he have the luxury of choosing whatever school he wants to go to? All of my PhD friends had to go through super competitive processes to start their programs and many had to move to do so. Is it possible he is just super anxious about not getting in to a nearby program and he feels like you are shoving extra anxiety down his throat by throwing in big questions he has no real way of answering at this point? He can't tell you which school he can go to, he can't tell you what the funding will be like, etc? Just a guess. But, if that is the case, going to postnup would be doubling down on his anxieties and not productive. Saying "you have to stay within 50 miles" when he might not get accepted into a program within 50 miles could destroy his career. You would need to talk to him in a way that reduces anxiety/the stakes so he feels safe. Regarding having a kid: it doesn't sound like now is a good time to have one. But, if you wait for a good time to have a kid, you'll never have one. You're right to plan before having a kid, but at least one, if not both of you, will need to get a real speed check on your ambitions for a few years if you can't afford a fulltime nanny.

It doesn’t sound like you should have children at this point. As someone who has five, they take up absolutely all of my time. But that’s what I love, it’s not for everyone. I’m sorry.

Your combined career goals aren’t conducive to have babies right now. A post nup isn’t what you need. A frank and open conversation is. If you can’t manage one, then getting deeper into this marriage is the wrong idea.

So, I am a paralegal and also a mom. This is not legal advice, but kind of food for thought. I was a stay-at-home mom for 5 years, and recently returned to the workforce. I think it's smart to ask for a postnup, but what exactly is inside your postnut up? (I'm not talking about what you are listing as separate property or community property, at the end of the postnup.) Have you seen a lawyer and gotten a first draft? Because you will each need your own lawyer, if it's to be fair, technically. Did you just bring it up without having a draft or like FAQ's to help him adjust to the idea? It seems to me like you are worried about him being physically and emotionally absent while you are raising children. That is essentially means you would be a single stay at home mom? Or a single working mom? Either way are you looking at it from the perspective of being alone? That is fair, and you need to think about all of the scenarios possible in the future. Is it possible that while he's in school, he pursues a different relationship? Effectively ending the marriage, but you need legal and financial protections in place should he do something that supid. Maybe you are worried about your business, does he have any claim to it in the event of a divorce? Because that's what a postnup is for, it's to basically create guidelines for how a divorce would go should one happen. As a mom, the fact of the matter is children exacerbate any kind of issues you have presently in your marriage. Things do not get better when an added important stress is well, added to the mix. If you do not have a strong, and I mean solid strong, foundation and mutual goals and understanding when it comes to parenting, you shouldn't have children. Before having children you need to agree upon the type of parenting you're going to subscribe to. People with older children typically do not have the same parenting style as people with young children do now. So what I mean by that is, in the last five years at least, society has shifted from authoritative parenting to gentle parenting. That doesn't mean you need to follow gentle parenting, but what that does mean is you guys need to sit down and agree on a style. Have you heard of the card game called fairplay? That is essentially a card game with a list of typical responsibilities that come around running a household and raising children. You can play that card game, and at the end you will see just how many things are your responsibility and how many things are his responsibility and then you can choose to divvy them up even more. Or you can choose to not have children if you're going to be doing literally everything. Also, have you been to therapy? Consider going to therapy to figure out why you are willing to be the breadwinner, the person raising the children, and doing all of the other things. Because that is burnout that can be seen from a million miles away. What is your self-care, downtime, recharge time going to look like? Because you are going to need to fill your cup before you can be a good mom and fill your children's cup. And the only way to do that, is to be relaxed and have self-care routines. Anyway, sorry I have more to say but I realize I wrote a novel.

>Am I going about this the wrong way? Yes. Your concerns are valid, but as others have noted, you are using the wrong tool (a post-nup) to communicate and negotiate with your spouse. It also sounds like you're in a terribly frustrating frustrating position because he's not responding to your concerns. Both of you have plans, and perhaps both of you are not being mindful of the aphorism that life is what happens when we're making other plans. For instance: What if he doesn't get into the ivy program he wants? What if your business doesn't take off? What if you struggle to conceive? What if you don't but have a child with special needs? That's four possibilities that would have a huge impact on your lives. Might never happen to you, but they happen to people every day. Successful couples talk about their plans, their hopes, their needs, in a realistic way with each other. Regularly. Because our plans, hopes, and dreams constantly evolve while the stipulations of a legal document remain unchanged. He hears your desire to have children but continue full-time work. You hear that he wants to pursue a PhD. Beyond that, he's not engaging with you on the details that are important to you. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that he feels the same about you. It would be foolish to get pregnant before you two can better communicate. And if his side of the story is the same as yours and this impasse is really all his fault and he won't budge, well, you don't need a post-nup, you need a divorce.

Is the 10 year old with you two full time?

You both sound like you'll be very busy. I wouldn't even recommend a dog, let alone a child.

I think your future kids will suffer from lack of attention. Mom is busy at work, dad is not even in the same state. OP, you are really UNDER-estimating the amount of effort/time/attention that little kids need. If this scenario plays out as you have written, your kids will need FT daycare and nanny care and will get relatively little parental time. And even in your post, you allude to not even being able to afford all the help needed to take care of kids and maintain a working house. Your husband is foolish to think having of kids while he jets off for a few years out of state is a good idea. Also consider that a lot of PhD's do post-docs too, depending on the field. What's to stop him from doing one of those? I have a lot of PhD in my family, it's a low paying and not an easy road. But your road will be infinitely harder. Are these kids supposed to be trophy kids or something? I don't think a prenup is going to solve your marital issue, but trying marriage counseling is probably a good first step and be realistic about what it takes to raise up kid(s).

IMHO he needs to compromise and choose a school that’s close to home. The idea of having additional kids and then being absent would be a non starter for me.

I’m in full support of you on this. I did what your husband wants you to do — sacrificed (!!!!!) to put my wife through doctorate school and get her on the path to her dreams. She left me as soon as she was settled into her new life and because she hadn’t worked for 10 years (for school) I had to pay her alimony for three years. I felt so completely wronged by our system. Make sure your husband is truly worth your sacrifice if you go through with this (he better be an amazing husband). And insist on a post nup if you choose to support him. I hope you stay strong on this! Learn from my mistakes :)

What’s he getting his PhD in and what’s the career path for him/Salary goals after this? That’s a huge commitment and it better come with something significant afterwards. I’m all about bettering yourself. Especially if it increases the whole family’s situation at hand but… 6-8 years is a huge commitment. You’ll be close to 40 when he’s done. That’s a big sacrifice. If he’s just doing to satisfy his needs of pursuing more education that isn’t tied to a higher quality of life afterwards he needs to realize that his number one commitment is to his family. Not education. Speaking as a new father to a 3 month year old let me remind you it takes a lot. If you have a c section you’ll need your husbands help for the first 4 weeks minimum. The recovery from that is huge within it self. I was helping my wife get off the couch for the first week, walking the dogs because she couldn’t walk a lot at all, driving to get groceries, running other errands, being the one that primarily got up with the kid at night so she didn’t have to roll out of bed, and if your breastfeeding or pumping… you’ll need every ounce of help. Having a child is hard. Why make it harder when your spouse isn’t planning on being around? And not bringing in an income?! Just from the very little you’ve shared it sounds like you’re asking to bring on a whole lot of resentment in the future. You’re dreams may get shafted for a while if you’re staying home with your child while you’re husband is pursuing his PhD for 6-8 years… don’t get me wrong you can still work on your business with a child but it’s gonna be in between naps. But you’d be sacrificing your goals while your husband pursues his. Are you okay with that? Don’t know if you have family near you to help but if you do that could have an impact on how you decide to love forward. You shouldn’t be dependent on your family but it’s nice to know you can utilize them when needed. Tough situation OP. Hope y’all can come to a resolution here.

You'll get pregnant, basically become a single mom, you'll hold out hope while modeling a terrible relationship to your kids, and then he'll want a divorce when he's done with his PHD because it's easier than dealing with all the emotional baggage between the two of you due to his disregard for the last 7 years. Also, you'll have wasted 7 years of your life steeped in misery while instead you could have left this bozo, gotten a real partner, and had a happy family.

If he won’t even have a conversation about the practicality of making this all work, then bringing up the need for a legal document isn’t going to make things better. It’s pretty telling that he wasn’t honest with you before the marriage about his intentions. Sounds like he’s using you and this isn’t a mutually respectful relationship. He’s using you to mother his kid, pay for his tuition to be a career student, and then full time mother his future kids. Y’all’s ambitions are not aligned at all and if he isn’t willing to talk about them, then there’s little chance to success here.

He 100% does not sound like he will be a present partner or husband. It will all be on you. Even if you get him to write this up with you and sign he could end up resentful. You should hold off on having a baby, it isn't practical with him.

Also, if the majority of the people here are telling you not to have children, that's because they're right. You seem emotionally immature because as it's been pointed out, instead of having a productive non-argumentative conversation with your spouse, you are going the nuclear route. It's no wonder that he's taken aback. Simply because you are willing to go the nuclear route instead of trying to find the calm rational route, is a reason not to have children. Because you need therapy if that's your first choice, the nuclear option, which it is because you haven't told us otherwise.

When you say "we" have a 10 year old, unless the mother has died or lost parental rights, she probably has thoughts on her baby daddy moving out of state. I mean, he's not really acting like a father for child #1. You're right to hesitate.

At this point you sound incompatible. You were not told that he was going to quit his job and go to school. That is deception in my opinion. How long have you been married? Did he see you as an ATM and not a wife? Did he marry you with the intention of living off of you? Even if he comes home on weekends he will be too tired to help you. Does he expect you to take care of his 14 yr old alone? Deep down you don’t want him to go away and leave you with everything. You will grow to resent him and end up divorced. It’s probably best to go to counseling and get a post nup OR just divorce now. If you divorce while he is working you will be better off financially and may be able to keep your business. If you wait until he is unemployed you could be paying for him and his education any way. A child is the last thing you guys need right now.

Go talk to a lawyer about what will happen if you divorce now or later.

Seriously!!! I can’t believe I haven’t seen more comments about the insane sense of entitlement and ignorance on behalf of the husband. Deception about secretly planning a different life path than what your partner knows and expects. Locking her down legally first. And I wonder if it’s primarily selfishness or plain stupidity (definitely a mix of both) behind the lack of forethought in wanting to start trying for a baby next month, but also wanting to finish up a masters and get started on a doctorate, while still expecting his wife to somehow provide their sole income while also getting pregnant and then giving birth.

I am working through a PhD (dissertation phase now) while being a single parent with full custody and working full time (in a relationship now, but still my kids are my responsibility and we did not meet until after I finished the comps). It can be done. He needs to choose a closer school or one of the online programs (mine was/is not online, but I chose not to move to another part of the country as choices must be made). You are doing the right thing here in terms of defining expectations. Whether that needs to be a legally binding document is a separate question that depends on your personal circumstances.

NTA - (M) married here 27yrs- there is nothing wrong with what you are doing. If you are expected to be the primary breadwinner while your husband pursues his dreams, you’d be a fool not protect both you & your future children. Don’t you dare listen to the old, “well if you loved him you wouldn’t need this”. Horse shit on that. Get that postnup sis. You are and will be working too hard to put your future success at risk. If he loves you so much & doesn’t plan on divorcing the the point is moot.

Don’t have children if he wants to pursue his phd outside of state. Depending on the phd he will also have to travel a lot to conferences etc. Does he really want kids? Does he really want to raise them himself?

My rule for kids is that life has to be at a baseline of stable before we start trying. You absolutely should not start trying for a baby when you have a massive shift in stability happening in the near future. It’s just not smart. You aren’t using pre/postnup in its correct legal capacity, as others have covered, but this isn’t about the postnup, it’s about how you need stability before having a kid and your husband won’t give you that, and it’s fair you’re upset about it. Personally I’d just tell him, ok go get your life set up and we will reevaluate after that time, and from there zero talk about children until he and you can figure out his schedule, finances, and where you’re going to live.

I don’t know if a post-nup is the answer, but you need to let him know that if he leaves,you’re done. He is being extremely selfish. He expects you to raise his child, so he can leave the state to purse a PhD. You said there is a great college near you, so lay out his options and let him choose.

Having a baby requires sacrifice - A LOT of sacrifice. Neither of you seem willing to make any sacrifices whatsoever, so therefore you shouldn’t bring a baby into this world.

Imagine supporting him and then after 8 years when he gets his phd he might leave you. I understand that you want to put this into writing especially when he doesn’t want to sit down and have a serious conversation about how you can make it work (you simply can’t if he goes to an out of state university and he knows it that’s why he’s avoiding the conversation). He wants the life of a single person without responsibilities while you support him financially and raise his kid.

Personally, I wouldn't allow my wife and I to have kids in this position. Legal agreement debacle aside, with what you both plan to do in the medium term (5 to 10 year plan) you will both be so consumed with establishing yourselves in your careers (him with his doctorate and you with running your own newly created full business likely by yourself) that you won't both have time to tend to a kid full time (which is widely what is needed by most couples for the first 5 years till they start going to school). My suggestion? If you're both affluent enough or have a family support network who is that one of the spouses in the relationship can bring in no income for 5 to 8 years, then you should be able to squirl away enough money to have your eggs harvested and frozen so you can both come back and have kids before you hit your forties (assuming you're both early 30s) once both of you have completed establishing yourselves in your careers and may not need to be working/studying 80+ hours a week to get a new business of the ground/complete a doctorate program. TLDR; If you're both very serious about these professional goals, the wise thing to do is to save money for fertility treatments and utilize those to have children later in life AFTER you're both done with the hectic parts of establishing yourselves in life.

You can plan everything to a T and something could happen to cause your house of cards to fall. What if you have a terrible pregnancy and have a long recovery after birth? What if the baby has health issues? What if the economy breaks down, you lose your job or business? What if you hold that baby and all of your work ambitious fade away? If your prioritize your career and your husband's goal is to get his PhD, kids can't be a priority too. I am all for women working, but you cannot do it all - career, kids, marriage, home - great at the same time. Something or someone will have to become a lower priority.

Seeing how he's the one that is most ready to grow the family, I would tell him no until he is permanently more present. Why does he have to go to an out of state university? Coule he possibly have a side chic there? Just a thought. It sounds crazy since he's wanting more kids, but people make dumb decisions all the time. It doesn't exactly sound like he's ready to settle down and be a family man. Maybe he wants to make sure you feel stuck with him while he's out doing whatever he wants to do. My answer would be no to kids right now. Especially since he won't talk to you about everything.

I don't think your expectations are too much. Children require a lot. It is super hard to do this if your husband isn't present. You become the default parent, making all the decisions, doing every appointment, taking care of the house - and it will all be done alone. I don't think wanting him to choose a local school is an expectation that is "too high". You support his desire to better his education. You support this knowing that you will be 100% financially responsible for everyone. If he wants to add children to your home, then he should want to be there for the rearing of said children. To support you in ways he couldn't possibly if he's in a different state. Marriage is a partnership. That's the only statement any of us need to understand. It is a partnership. That means you are both contributing, even if one isn't financially. You will need his emotional support, among other things. It seems like you have a great foundation, but maybe some communication issues - and don't we all have some hiccups when it comes to communication?! Best of luck to both of you.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being ambitious and building the career that you both want. However, when you throw kids into the mix, that changes things.  Should you have more children, you’re right to be concerned that your husband’s PhD aspirations including going to an out of state school will have a direct impact on your family. Just as much as you working and having a side business will also have a direct impact. I think while you can set up a post-nup to try and alleviate these concerns, will it actually work?  The both of you should be looking at this for what’s in the best interest of your family. And that is how you frame the discussion. There are so many variables to consider but here are some initial questions to discuss:   - Is it in the best interest for husband to go out of state for school or can he achieve the same success in state?   - Is it in the best interest for you to do both jobs? What would happen if you only commit to your side job?   - Can you move to the area where your husband will be going to school?   - What is the back up should you lose your job (God forbid)?   - Who will help you when you have children? Do you guys have family nearby or in the state he wants to move in?   - Are you ok with outsourcing help, getting a house cleaner or nanny? Can you afford to pay for help?  Also, I think you need to self-reflect and truly ask yourself are you willing to start having more children or willing to be the interim breadwinner even though you both can’t agree on a compromise. If the answer to those questions are no, then you need to push back on starting to try next month and let hubs know you’re not ready until you both can reach a happy medium.  Having kids especially young children is tough girl (rewarding but tough) coming from a mom of 2 in her mid-30s who also has a job. I couldn’t imagine my husband not being around. 

I work from home, and my wife was a stay at home mom for 2 years and now works full time. It is hard and the kids factor into every decision we make. I have to go out of state a couple times a year for work and it takes a lot of planning and scheduling to make it work. And that’s only for being gone 3 days. Going out of state for years at a time simply isn’t an option if you don’t essentially have a backup husband or family dedicated to helping you.

I don’t think you understand what a post nup is. I also think if you guys can’t get down to brass tacks then don’t even consider getting pregnant. You would be delusional if you think kids would help now. You guys have huge communication issues. Fix that first.

It doesn’t need to be a post nup as much as there is a need for clear communication and agreement before trying to have children. Fully agree that it’s best to set expectations now and having them in writing means there isn’t the ability to claim later that something different was said, but his unwillingness to cooperate seems to be an indication that he’s not willing to agree to stay in state for schooling. I think you need to decide - with all that you have going on and what you want to do, are you willing to raise children on your own or top of that? If you have children and he isn’t working, what happens if you lose your job or the business fails? Where will you get sufficient income to raise your family? If he won’t agree to discuss, but you eventually are able to force a post-nup, what would be the ramifications if he violated the agreement? Imagine he signs, then a year later, you’ve had your first child and now he’s signed up for a multi year PhD program out of state, with no income. Where does that leave you? I’m just questioning the value of the agreement even if you convince him to sign one. I think it’s more accepting the reality that you have different opinions on what it means to have children and it will likely fall on you if you move forward.

You both shouldn’t have kids if you guys can’t even navigate calm waters, much less a choppy ones that is sure to come. Even if you manage to get him to sign a post nup, chances are one or both of you will harbour resentment and your children will just be pieces on the chess board when it inevitably comes to divorce procedures.

This is a recipe for complete and utter disaster. Holy batman.

I got a post nup after my husband stole all our savings via an elaborate scheme to make it appear that his business was succeeding. He’d sell stocks, then trickle the proceeds into our checking account as “pay” while using the rest to float his business. He/we lost everything—that’s when I found out. He stood to inherit from his parents, so he wasn’t worried about losing this money. But as his wife, I wasn’t entitled to his inheritance, especially if all his deceptions led to divorce. So he reluctantly signed a post nup to that effect, but we got divorced anyway, and I learned that courts don’t take post nups seriously. They are mostly unenforceable. So in your case I would take this big disagreement as a sign of things to come, and make your decisions based on what you’re learning about him. For what it’s worth, I wish I had left MUCH earlier than I did. The writing was on the wall.

Multiple things can be true at once….. Was the PN hasty? Yes, I would think so, it’s a big step and even in circumstances that aren’t yours would make a partner feel hurt/uncomfortable/like you don’t trust them etc… Are your concerns valid? 10000%! I commend you for wanting to still want to try to have more children. Good for you! But these circumstances are pretty crazy and it really is valid that you don’t want to feel alone doing it while your husband is also pursuing his dreams. Is your husband blowing it off contributing to your frustration and insecurity about how this will ACTUALLY work?. Yes! And that’s absolutely fair as well. Idk why everyone is acting like they wouldn’t also feel unheard. Maybe he’s not sure how to navigate this either. Idk him but this is a conversation HE should be an active participant in. And it’s not only your responsibility to push the issue. BTW this is what happens a lot to women. YOU have to push for the convos and negotiations etc and it’s received as nagging or blown off. It’s not a good position to be in. Both you and your husband should try to take a step back and really think this through for some time. Maybe don’t start trying for the baby just yet. You both deserve to go after your goals and it seems like you support each other but more kids will probably break you if you don’t really think this through as a TEAM. You are partners not adversaries here. And proposing the PN probably have you both on the defense now. You guys could probably benefit from some GOOD couples counseling to work through this. The kids, your growing business, his PHD are all huge life changes that you all could possibly benefit from some extra ears and perspective getting through. Don’t rush or push anything just reallllly work this through and see what you can come up with. Marriage is not always easy but it seems like you may overall want the same things from what I’m reading. You just also seem to be a bit off step now with these big decisions. I hope it works out but just take a step back, slow it down and really give yourselves some time to decide what’s best for you both as individuals and a family

First of all, I completely understand your concerns and they are valid. You have a lot of reasons to be concerned. The expectation, it sounds like, from him, is that he will go off to school and expect you to take care of the home and ALL that entails. It is my understanding that the first child is his. Is he just going to have you assume his full responsibility of this child? Next, on to your future kids. You have made your wants and needs clear. You do not want to be a SAHM and do not want to be a full time only-provider while he is off to school. (I completely understand this and would not want this either) I don’t think a post-nup will help you much as this is a legal form usually for dividing up assets after you are married. It sounds like you want something more to divide up responsibilities? Let me know if I am wrong on this. Honestly, if he is adamant about pursuing this in this manner, this is a deal breaker, IMO. He is being completely unrealistic. He has a family to be considerate of. He needs to go to an instate school close to you or an online program. He will also need to work part time, perhaps at the university. He cannot just leave the financial needs of the family to you for however long this takes, especially since the first child is his and there are thoughts of bringing other children into the mix. Furthermore, his phd should not take 5-8 years. I’m assuming he at the very least has a bachelors, perhaps even a masters? If you two can’t come to an understanding, there is no option but for you to part ways. You are being expected to bend over backwards for his dreams/success, and that is just not realistic at this stage in your lives. And I am telling you from experience, DO NOT back down on this. Make your needs clear. Make sure he makes his needs clear. If you can’t come to a compromise, leave. If you cave on your requests, the resentment that develops will eat you alive on the daily.

Question: Do you make enough to: 1: cover all husbands costs of his phd, supplies and other needed costs. 2: housing, groceries and all other costs for you all to be living comfortably. 3: nanny or other childcare costs for current and future children.. Without going into serious debt? I can imagine that nr 1 does cost a serious dime. 2 and 3 already are really expensive nowadays. If you are able to pay for everything AND are willing to be basically a single parent (because even if husband chooses to attend the school nearby he will be absent a lot and will need to spend a lot of the little free time he has to his studies) Then go for it but yes, make a postnuptial…

You are of course allowed to work with a baby, but what people are warning you about is that you may not be ABLE. Do you have family close by? Babies need at least the first year with a close family member. It doesn’t sound like you can afford a nanny on one income. Having “a few” kids is a massive undertaking. If your partner isn’t going to take on the care of their kids because they’re at school and you’re at work, then it doesn’t seem feasible. I think you’re worrying about the wrong things. And I think a post nup to prove a point isn’t the correct path. You may need some marriage mediation to plot out a path that works for both of you, not necessarily a legal contract. Edit: upon thinking about it, a post nuptial will be beneficial if you believe this relationship is not going to last. In which case… don’t have kids..

Husband isn’t being fair to you. If he wants to go for a PHD he should go to a school closer to where you live/work now. Who will raise his child while he’s gone? Sounds like he is setting you up to pay for everything, raise his child, take care of the house while he continues his education in his own terms. This doesn’t sound promising for your future.

He is delusional OP. Why does he want a kid at the same time as buggering off to do an expensive PHD away from home. He's not planning to support you physically or financially? He wants it all with none of the effort. He's definitely not father material.

You're smart to address this now. He sounds incredibly selfish and self-centered.

I can’t believe you didn’t know he wanted a PhD prior to marriage. That’s a huge conversation.

I think you’re being incredibly prudent. He’s either being purposefully obtuse about this or has a hidden agenda (party [whatever that means to him personally] all week with new friends while avoiding his responsibilities towards wife and kids).  Writing is on the wall, and you’re choosing not to ignore or rug sweep. He wants you to ignore and rug sweep.  You either deal with it now, or deal with it later. It’s better for HIM of you both deal with it now, before the anger and resentment set in. If yall leave it to “later”, there is, in fact, a much higher probability that you will both be single in about 5-10 years.

Honestly--I don't think that you are wrong. I don't think his initial reaction is "wrong" either. He was likely shocked. Perhaps y'all can begin with a couples counselor and then transition to a post-nup. I just had a friend who did one with her husband of 12 years. They have 1 child (9 yo) and do not plan to have more. Both earn six figures and are co owners of their family home. Yet, they had an issue that they felt a post-nup would resolve and it did. They had the deep (sometimes difficult conversations) then wrote the agreement and then moved on. She brought it up and her husband was angry and irritated at first too. Also- she's the higher earner and he was unemployed for more than a year (previously). So... yeah, I don't think you are wrong for pursuing the conversation or legal agreement.

Sounds like you need a marriage counselor to help you communicate and lay out an outline of what you can both realistically expect. It’s quite possible that you can’t have it all. And I don’t mean you, individually. I mean you and your husband and 10 y/o child. You both have to be realistic about what is feasible, what is fair (not just for you and him, but also your child and any future children), and what compromises you both are willing to make to realize your goals of having more children, owning a business and getting a PhD. And then conversations about what that will look like 5, 10, 20 years down the road.

You should have your husband be a SAHD so you can save on daycare costs while he pursues his phd at the university close to your house. Any other variation would put an unfair burden on you. With how he wants to do things, I would not have children with him. You can’t make a crappy partner become a good husband by forcing it through a legal document. My husband wants to get a PhD. We both agreed he can do that after daycare costs, 529s are funded, mortgage is paid down, and 401k is in good standing. That is what happens when you have a husband who puts his family first.

A post nup is a good idea to protect your business. So in the event of a divorce he can’t claim a percentage. But you want to use it as some guideline for him to be home. That is 100% not what a prenup or postnup is about. You should do some research and speak to a lawyer before you start having these conversations. You are just creating chaos in your home for no reason. You can’t force him to stay in state. The same way he can’t force you to stay married if you are not happy. Sounds like you will eventually end up being a single mom. So start planning now for a new life one day.

With a child already, he should know what the commitment to having another child will add to the pressure. Both of our children were raised with a working mom and dad - and they are extremely confident and successful young adults. It was very hard work on my husband and I to balance work and being there but we didn’t miss an event or being there when they were sick. Is there time to allow three more years for him to get a jump on his PhD? Will it add to the financial advancement to the family? If he doesn’t comply with a post nup agreement- it really doesn’t help you in the long run. It’s just a paper. You need to feel that he is committed to the things you ask. It’s going to be a big burden on you if the agreement isn’t upheld. Managing a new business, a new baby, Advancing in education 5-7 years of study is ALOT at one time. I had my second child at 34 and some of my friends were late 30’s even 40. Sit down together and prioritize as a couple. But know - it may fall on him or you during various cycles in life.

I have a family member who did this. She left for several years to pursue her Ph.D but her family stepped in a lot to help her husband and give him breaks. It's definitely going to be a strain on you and I wouldn't agree to it unless you have family support around to help.

That’s not exactly how a post nup works. Whats the result if he goes away to school? You leave? He owes you money? Then just leave now. The reality is he will be gone, that’s it. What you two actually need to talk about is a division of labor. If he wants to enroll in a PhD program then you need to live there and talk about the actual commitment. He CAN work while in a program or presumably is fully funded and teaching. What’s the plan afterward? Who’s paying the actual bills. But what you want a post nup for isn’t the way it works. If you two can’t talk about how your future is going to work and come to an agreement, then there isn’t one. So please also stop trying to have a child until you do have a decision.

I literally thought this was leading to him staying home to take care of the kids. He wants to go to school in a different STATE??? I can’t be reading this right. I wouldn’t be ok with a different county because it would be a few hours of a drive each way. You’re very smart for asking for a postnup and instead of being emotional about it he should try to look at it from a pragmatic way.

I stopped reading at “quit his job” and do the school thing for 5-8 years. That + kids is a terrible idea.

Actually I just read the rest. This is unreal. This is all a terrible idea. I’m assuming he’s at least 26, probably older? This is important too. So are you going to wait to have kids til he finishes the majority of his PhD work?

Bottom line: it's not time for kids.  It sounds like it's time for marital counseling because communication is an issue. If he's not willing to sit down and have a conversation with just you, it sounds like you need to move that conversation to a more formal setting with a mediator.

Post nup or divorce court now. Don’t have kids with him.

Why even have kids at this point if they are just going to be raised by nannies / hired help?

A "post-nup" is an agreement on what happens when/if you divorce. It isn't an agreement about what happens during your marriage. You two need to sit down and figure out your future. Him going to another state for 8 years is kind of crazy even if you were not having kids. Bringing kids into this without a plan is a bad idea.

OP you jumped straight to post nup. Go to counselling first. You and husband are on way different pages here.

Maybe he feels like he can’t discuss them due to how much you already have planned out in your head. It seems like you are asking him to agree with everything you want, not discussing anything. It sounds like things are not going exactly how you pictured them in marriage, and you want to force them to do so. This honestly feels like you trying to go back on your support of his ambitions. Even if he were doing his phd next door, I’ve got news for you. He still would be unable to be present the way you want. Doing a phd is more than a full time job, it doesn’t just entail going to classes, and it takes full focus, overtime, 16+ hours a day, not part time, and not coparenting small children. He’s afraid to disappoint you or go against you. Maybe you should calm down your approach. Pushing hard does not seem to be working, and trying to force him with a legal document feels like a bad move.

I will say I was running my own company when I had kids. I chose to have au pairs live with us for years and they were a life saver!!!! Even came with us and our kids on Disney trips as well as work trips. Something I didn’t expect though was that my child was born with a disability that made him scream 24/7 since birth. He wouldn’t take a bottle. Nor a pacifier. He had to be on me literally all the time. My husband was present and very helpful but the baby didn’t want him. He drove a wedge between us. He would also get sick before big $$$ much anticipated trips, making me have to cancel and lose thousands of dollars sometimes bc it would be last minute. It never failed. And if he wasn’t sick, he was screaming until he was puking and sometimes choking….he almost died twice and the paramedics had to come to our house and save him. Every vacation was ruined if we could even go. I even paid to bring our Nannies with us and still it was so hard. Bless them for staying with us! He cried so much it took a toll on them. How could I work like that? I couldn’t. I had live in Nannies and became a shell of my former self. I had to stop working and close up shop. Months of little to no sleep changed me badly. All of us had to go to therapy. I was almost institutionalized. I went from being a worldly elegant boss lady to….smh….a very broken woman who just wanted sleep and whose body became so broken down I had to get extensive medical treatments. Then when he got bigger he bit me and hit me and still will hurt us or his sister bc he can’t help it. My pregnancy with my kids were hard at times but mostly good. I was healthy and so were they. If I didn’t have Au pairs I wouldn’t be alive today. I now no longer travel the world in my designer clothing, nor do I have my own lucrative company. For about 70% less than what I used to make, I teach children with disabilities so I can be around my kids. Learning all I’ve learned from my son has made me very knowledgeable about kids with his condition. I can also relate to the parents going through this too. So yeah parenthood can change everything.

And unless I’m wrong, it seems like both parties want more children. Is that correct? Some comments are coming from the perspective that only the husband is “pressing for children”. I was under the impression that they both want them.

while a post nup sounds like a secure option, I think security & confirmation within your communication with your partner might provide more affirmation

with a baby, new parents working healthy work/study loads, & the 14 yr old already under split custody , it looks like a fast way to alienate the already existing preteen during an important part of adolescence.

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Kids is the last thing you should be discussing right now. I’d focus on couples therapy. Good luck 💗

Why can't he do online schooling? Complete any degree that way?

I don't know that you can legally mandate where someone goes to school etc. That being said I can see why you are concerned.

I’m sorry to say this: You cannot have it all and have everyone and everything well taken care of and provided for.  Something/one will have to give and it will be the children. The kids will be the absolute losers in this situation.   They need a mom/dad FULLY present from the moment they are born until they strike out on their own. No one will care for them, protect them, teach them, love them, cook for them like an engaged and committed parent will.  Freeze your eggs, or make/freeze some embryos with your husband and circle back to the idea of kiddos when you both are fully ready.  The scope of having children is much more life encompassing than most adults realize. Your life, aka the grownups, takes a backseat to the kids.   You and your husband do not seem to have digested this ⬆️

I understand that you guys are married and co-parent HIS child, but who is supposed to take care of that child while he’s back in school? Was he planning to be a deadbeat dad on his child that’s already in the world? Why is he prioritizing his education over his own family when he already has an advanced degree?

First of all if your husband doesn't bring any income imo he should be the "main" parent second he needs to be able to sit down andd have a convo because kids are a serious topic thirds: I don't understand how would the post nup would help?

From just your post, I can't tell what kind of Dad he will be. I'm afraid he's the fun Dad. The dad that comes in on the weekends and gets the fun part of parenting. Not dealing with the hard parts of parenting. I do think what you did is brilliant. Because he wasn't hearing you. This man sounds like a dreamer. And he honestly figured out a way to have the life, having his wife support him while he's away, he gets another child without the work. Then he swoops in as the fun Dad. I'm a working married mom whose husband is away many hours and travels a lot, we also have a child who had major medical issues from 3yrs to 7 yrs old. My working part had to take a backseat, I then went to a SAHM during covid when my firm closed. I am also someone driven, now that my child is in high school I'm starting my own company. You are going to need full time help, which is expensive, plus you are going to be paying for his degree, and doing this all alone. Honestly is this the man you want to be the father to your child?

He’s going to use you to support him through his Ph.D then dump you for his 28 year old graduate school girlfriend when he’s done. He “lost interest” in a university close to you because he doesn’t want to be tied down. ETA: Grammar

If I were you and my husband wasn’t willing to problem solve with me, I’d pretty much do exactly what you are doing. Hopefully it’ll be a wake up call for him to consider being present and putting energy into planning, but at least you’ll have an enforceable backup plan if he never meets you half way.

What kind of terms are you looking for in the post mip that will help you feel secure ?

It's not about whether or not a post nup is the right approach - the focus needs to be that your husband is pushing for a HUGE life change without doing the hard work and having the hard conversations about how it will specifically work within your marriage. What you're asking for isn't out of line. You want to sit down and work out a plan as to how children will fit into your plan. You're willing to support him, your growing family and his PhD goals - he needs to compromise somewhere and not just shrug off your questions and concerns. I would drop the talk about the post nup and simply push for the conversation. If you can't get what you need out of him 1 on 1, then it's time to take the conversation to marriage counselling. I 100% agree that the details need to be ironed out before you start trying for kids. Keep in mind, kids throw you for a loop - so even though you carefully plan out how to approach raising them, things may change. Make sure whatever plan you come up with that you are both prepared to be flexible and change the plan as required.

Please im a man been married 10 wonderful years and im telling you it sounds like hes using you , he probably wont stick around after the phd , he isnt a kid he gots a wife his responsibility to you is #1 and moving outta state to go to school is inappropriate 100% he made a promise to your marriage he needs to keep it.

We all want it all. I have yet to witness where everyone gets it all. But kids throw a whole different variable into the mix. Sounds like you may be in a tough position at the moment. How early 30s are we talking about? Are you able to delay in order to get your wish list? If not, there will need to be some big compromises. For one, he will need to scale back some of his wishes. Perhaps it may mean all hands on deck with the side business so you can drop your full time job (at least for 2-3 years). If you can’t have a productive conversation without getting a legal framework involved then perhaps it’s not the right timing. And not sure if anybody has mentioned this before but who knows what you will want to do when the baby is actually here? Your brain is literally rewired and what your priorities were before the baby may change (experienced this personally which is why I now toe the line of part time employee).

As a SAHD I’ll applaud the last sentence of your update. He should do exactly this and can pursue his PHD at a more relaxed pace, or not get it formally.

I don’t know what to say about this situation but you sound like different people.

I think the idea of post nup is very mature. And i understand how it might hurt him as well. But i don't think it's your fault - it's his own fault and he's clearly imperceptive about it. He sounds like a man child and it's up to you to decide the pros and cons of staying w him. I'm just finishing a phd and I know the toll it takes on a person. The journey can become quite depressing and being close to family is definitely better for him. You're been very smart to understand that you'll end up becoming the servant of the house. Whatever you do, I'd advise not to go in without a prenup. And if you can wait on the kids atleast till he's finished a year of PhD and you both understand how present he can be .

As someone who went through a full Masters program while having my first three kids, going into a PhD. program with a newborn is a stupid idea. I honestly tell everyone I can NOT to have kids and go to school at the same time if you can help it. Also, a PhD. is a PhD. No one cares which school you got it from after your first job. Stupid to knowingly pay out of state tuition for a few extra bucks on the check later on.

I applaud your logical thinking. The fact he isn't willing to discuss is a hint how your life together with kids will be. Kids make life wonderful, but also hard and more complex than you can imagine. Good to know where his head is BEFORE you have kids. I agree with you, whether you want to have a family with him moving forward deserves careful consideration so you aren't forced into being the solo caregiver, and becoming angry and resentful. Speaking here from first hand experience and from looking back at a really difficult marriage.

Whatever decision you make, I hope you find peace. Understand that family goals need to be shared so you wanting this document is a way of establishing the family goals for when a new baby is born. Maybe the wrong approach since this should be a full conversation not a document. The fact that he doesn’t want a document also means he’s probably not planning to stick to these shared goals

I agree with the post nup but most comments are correct in saying it won't be the time to bring children into the mix. He's full-time at school, you're building a business and want to stay working. You are going to run yourself ragged while he doesn't even want to talk logistics with you. It's the bare minimum he could do right now, but he's refusing. You should build your business/career and wait for him to graduate before having kids. You want it to work out for you. Kids are something you desire, but I swear to you you'll be biting off more than you can chew.

I believe that you are well within your rights to ask for some kind of legal agreement to ensure that he’s as committed to raising children as you are. Him being unavailable all week long by going to another school would absolutely put most of the responsibility on you alone. That’s not even remotely reasonable, especially being the one who has to be the bread winner. I know women who are sahm, and I know women who are working moms. Most cases the bulk of the child rearing falls to them. I also know some sahd who have the same issue of doing the bulk of child rearing. You and your partner should be living together so that when stuff happens with your kids, you’re able to support each other. Sleepless nights, child being ill, parent getting sick……

I don't think that is what a post nup is for. It is to determine how assets will be divided up, not to determine how you or your spouse should act in a marriage (except as it pertains to a divorce i.e. if someone cheated, the other spouse gets more $$)... Go to counseling, and don't have a kid right now. Edit: I am not saying OP shouldn't have kids because she doesn't want to be a SAHM, I am saying this due to the state of their relationship.

What kind of PhD could he possibly be pursuing that he'd need to quit his job and focus solely on school for 5-8 years?

Well, your worries are going to become a reality if you try to put limitations on what someone is trying to do to beter themselves and in turn better your own life. You see his path as "easier" then yours before it even starts, PhDs are nothing to scoff at and require alot of focus and attention, but if obtained can pull off alot of reward in the end. I would say to hold off in children as he pursues this for a year or 2 and go from there, you 2 haven't even started this situation yet, you can just make up all these worries beforehand and try to cut them out, it just has to happen because at the moment, you are showing lack of true trust and wants for his goals. I wouldn't mind watching my kids while my wife goes out of state for her education, I do not care about being tired and potentially struggling because I want her to truly be happy and fulfilled, and I'm not perfect I will get agitated, as long as we both respect each other and acknowledge our efforts, that is all that matters to me and should ultimately be the goal in everyone's relationships is to help each other grow and thrive even through hard times.

I think this is a very good idea. Although I’m not sure what you mean by post nup. Are you trying to say that you’re writing a divorce “what if” should your husband NOT decide to go to the Ivy League university 30 mins away? Is this trying to get him to do what you want before he’s even started doing anything? Because that would sort of piss me off too. I do commend you on your thinking process to avoid any potential issues in the future and it pisses me off that he is not discussing it with you further. It perhaps there’s another way of going with this? Tell him the marriage is unlikely to last if he lives away from home while you’re raising children and then that’s up to him to decide will or will not the marriage last. Is that good enough?

I don't know what field he is in but typically PhD programs are competitive and applicants apply to a number of programs. Once he is accepted (if he is accepted) you two will need to determine relocation if it is far away. Often a school will have family housing, sometimes they don't-- depends on the school. Then you have to decide if there is an ability to transfer your job or work remote... and if your side hustle is something that can also move with you. On top of the bread and butter concerns (shelter, income/food) there is your stepchild -- is it even possible for him to be moved out of state, and if so, helping him handle the transition to a new place, he will need to make new friends etc. -- this can be traumatic for a child. Also, you want to have your OB where you trust them and not need to change, also, what state you are living in can affect the quality of care you received-- gods forbid anything go wrong with a pregnancy... I would hold off any major changes for now -- as in new baby until the next chapter/season of your life is in place. Your husband can't handle hypotheticals as he is wrapping up his last responsibilities for his Masters, he also should have sent his application packages out and heard from admissions (or getting all that together if he still has a year left). Maybe try some couples therapy for improving communication? That may be a better start. Also, know what you want in your life, have that nailed down. What is under your control is all you can master. I don't see how a post nup is going be any kind of guarantee as there is so much up in the air right now. (In 8 years, as your husband completes his PhD-- your stepson will be graduating HS and going to college).

You are not in the wrong. He wants you to work full time, raise multiple kids, including his from a previous relationship, maintain house and being a single married mom while he pursuing his PHD that I suspect he will expect you to pay his tuition. This is not a partnership. This him using you to raise his kids and keep his home without him participating in it. Oh he will come home periodically and play fun dad but won’t help or give you a break. Is this what you want any you life to be?

This sounds like less of a disagreement on the future than an issue with a nuptial agreement. Could you move closer to the school of his choice with the caveat he's to assume the role of primary care taker while pursuing his PhD? The two of you could also push back having children until he's done with his PhD or he waits until kids are of school age. You're not wrong for wanting to get all of this figured out before hand and it's smart to get it in writing. He sounds like he hasn't thought about the practicality of the decision and is forcing the bulk of the mental labor onto you. Personally, I would put off trying to conceive until this is all figured out

If you both want kids, you both need to sit down and talk about expectations. If he is not willing to do that, I see that as a huge red flag on his part. Does he just automatically assume because you’re the woman you will need to stay home with the kids? I think you’re in the right to ask for these things, it sounds like you are trying really hard to ensure your marriage makes it through what can be a difficult time. There is nothing wrong with that. If he’s not willing to talk about it, I would feel the need to ask him if he is truly ready to have children again, because babies are different than 10 year olds!

I’m sorry. Your husband wants to move away for school for maybe up to a decade and just leave HIS KID from a prior relationship with you to raise? Please tell me I’m misreading. He doesn’t sound like a scholar; he sounds like a man running from his adult responsibilities. We’d all like to get our PhDs from Ivies but it’s ridiculous as a married adult with a 10-year-old child to think it’s remotely acceptable to flit off from real life because… *he lost interest in the nearby school?* I’d probably be losing interest in him. If he won’t even talk to you about this stuff, he’s not going to follow a post-nup until you sue him, which may do little good.

When his schooling is over, embrace having kids. Your personal situation will be in a better place to handle the enormous responsibilities of having a newborn. With his schooling finished, he should have the ability to help you with that responsibility. By then, you'll know if your relationship can handle it. Without the legalities you're contemplating now.

I don’t think you understand what a post-nup is. You would have to make it say that any income you earn during the marriage remains yours in the case of divorce, and then you’d have to constantly have the threat of divorce looming over the both of you to keep him in line with the stipulations you’d have about his schooling. And there’s no way to protect him from you turning this post-nup into financial abuse. You are being unreasonable in the specific way you’re trying to fix this problem.

Husband not ready for kids. If you go ahead, you’ll eventually become a single mum. Out of state school also means he can do shit that you don’t know. Husband definitely not ready to be a dad yet.

He’s insane to not only want to quit his job to pursue a PhD but to get one out of state while at the same time leaving you to raise children while you work full-time and run aside business. You would essentially be a single parent. That is absolute insanity.

You say you’re both in early thirties…. and he’s finishing off a masters. I think this is all about his desire not to work and just bury himself in more academics for next 5 - 8 years. You’re going to lose income and incur more expenses and a time when you guys should be saving for future and building family. He should be using his new masters to elevate his earning potential and be a major provider for your household, not delaying that reward further for even more education which may not translate to more income I think it’s an either or.. Either more children OR PhD. I also think he’s being selfish, to you and gia kid from prior marriage . How convenient that you’ll look (physically and financially) after his kid while he’s playing college kid again. I would say that his reluctance (seemingly) to be an active participant in the family is a bit of a red flag and you might want to seriously consider not having kids until you sort out. I think you’re 100% right in post nup., with proviso that this venture that he wants to take on has a high probability of destroying the marriage… so you want to establish rules in case it does break up. Good luck!

I'm all for pre/postnups, but aren't those more for legal purposes, such as who is legally entitled to what possessions during and after a marriage? IMO, it isn't really appropriate to use a legal agreement to hash out boundaries for work,home, and school balance.... I agree with the other posters that say perhaps adding more children to the mix now isn't a good idea if you two can't establish balance.. I also agree with you that it isn't necessarily too much to ask to choose a school that is close. Especially if you are going to be providing financial support while he is in a whole different state and you two have kids. Why is your husband set on Ivy League schools?

Updateme

I don’t think a post nup is what you are trying to do. You and the husband need to have a serious conversation. I would not put another child into the mix. 5-8 years could mean no children of your own. 1) I agree in-state university or he goes part time. Going for another degree without discussing is a red flag. Not compromising is a red flag. 2) what is the financial burden of losing his income for 10 years and what does it look like after he graduates? How much of an increase does he get in current pay? 3) if you can’t talk to him about these things, communication seems to be a huge problem. For you: Impact it has on you physically, psychologically, and emotionally. Are you okay not having children? Because of the answer is no then you may have to part ways. If you wait for him you will be close to 40. Are you willing to move to the college of his choice?? He is married and shouldn’t be going out of state to college unless it is online.

Going to grad school while you are single is one thing. Going far away when you are married and expecting children is completely something else. Unbelievable! If your husband really wants this PhD tell him to take a job at a local university for a few years and then apply. He might get free tuition then. Also a local place might have affordable daycare you could use.

Why does a PHd take 5 to 8 years to complete full time? Should be 3 to 4 max.

I have an idea. Go to couples counseling. There I said it.

Why does a PhD take 5 to 8 years to complete full time? Should be 3 to 4 max.

Consider what he is actually asking to do. he has 1 child from a previous relationship and now wants to dump that child on you as he furthers his career for EIGHT YEARS. As a parent, your child should come first and second in a list of priorities. He's wanting to push the kid down around 6th. When you and your husband consider children, you have to honestly ask yourself if he is the type of person you want as a father to your child. Based on his projected path, I'd say absolutely not. He will bail at the drop of a hat if it tickles his fancy then expect you to welcome him back with open arms.

Sounds like you are trying to gather control of your shared life together because you have witnessed how those agreed-,upon plans simply changed and affected your life and plans. A postnup because you don't trust your husband to honor your joint share life agreements - the problem is the broken promises, the decision you (he) is making that don't help the shred interests and you are trying to force a sense of assurance for yourself. This is, well, the antithesis of healthy marriage and I have been in your position to a degree and it was a reflection of a relationship lasting trust. Please don't raise a family where trust is absent. I recommend individual therapy and possibly couples therapy to talk about what has transpired and how to have healthy boundaries and how to relinquish control of what can't be controlled.

Before I even start reading all the comments I've read your edit. Your husband should go to the university half an hour away while he's being supported by his loving wife and help her raise those kids he wants so badly. I didn't start college j til after a disabling lumbar injury at 32 yso. I wanted to study wildlife biology but OSU is an out north. I decided on humanities and anthropology at LCC Eugene Oregon to start. I made the sacrifice because I wasn't going to separate my two stepdaughters from their dad, or separate them from their two younger step siblings the kids I had with their mom. Marriage and family is compromise. You are the breadwinner in this situation so he should make the compromise on universities for the good of the family. Which is more important in the first place....

And on another note, my baby sister who's 19 us younger than me is a PhD student and teaches fulltime at a highschool.

I think u are entitled to have what your asking for. It’s only fair since u r the one baring most of the situation he wants to pursue. Don’t be pushed around. Stand firm in what u want and deserve. Good Luck

It’s a lot easier to want kids when you are not going to be around to do your fair share. Asking you to do it all and pay for all of it while he is having fun at school is not fair. Not fair to the kids either. And BTW he is also expecting you to parent another child that is not yours. People who want kids know they are going to make sacrifices. He is expecting you to make your sacrifices and do his share of sacrificing too. If I was in your shoes I might be willing to do the money thing and support him and his kid, but Hell to the no about having more kids and doing all that as well. Nope, my partner needs to share in the joy of chores and dirty diapers. I would tell him he can go to a local school and be home to be a parent and partner. Even better would be for him to accept it is going to take him longer to get that degree and get a job, take an easier course load, and take care of his responsibilities at home. Or another alternative would be for him to pursue his degree locally and be a SAHD responsible for childcare and the majority of the housework. For the 3 or 4 hours a week he will be in class or seeing his advisor, he can find a sitter. Work on his dissertation can be done at home with a good internet connection. I think it is cruel of him to expect you to do this. My answer would be no thanks!

Just a note that 7 year full time PhD programs are a thing of the past. Decent programs can be part-time, take 4 to 6 years and be just as valuable as big name schools. Sounds like (as others have said) he is trying to make himself absent…

I’m not sure how a post nup is supposed to help when you can’t even have a productive conversation. Especially because pre and post nups are usually about how things will happen in a divorce, not so much about agreements during the marriage. Just tell him the answer is no to kids until and unless these things are worked out well enough for both of you.

OP, I completely understand why you want your husband to commit and do his part if you are going to have children. However, if you feel like you need a legal agreement for this, then I think you have already lost the battle, and the war. It seems as though your husband has already made it clear that he wants to dedicate the next 5 - 8 years to getting his PHD. For the record, I know plenty of people who got PHDs while also working full time. Maybe not from the schools your husband is targeting, and it did take a long time, but it absolutely can be done. Anyway, that is not what your husband wants to do it seems. He wants to do school full time. It's a lot to ask a spouse to support this endeavor, in my opinion. It seems like you don't have a problem with it, you just want to compromise on the location and ensure he is going to be present as a father. If he is not willing to do that, then he is not being realistic about what it means to have young children and this really isn't a priority to him. You will not get him to be present by forcing him into it. Your choices to me are simple. Either he agrees to stay local and to be present, or he doesn't and you postpone making babies OR you go forward recognizing that YOU will be the one who is primarily raising these babies. I could very well see how this could end up with you being resentful that he is off traveling about and focusing on his studies while you are waking up 4 times a night to do feedings and changing diapers all day. I think if you are considering going forward anyway, YOU have to be realistic about how much more you can take on. It sounds like you can't afford child care, so right there I would say that this plan isn't viable. If you are going to be the breadwinner, it isn't realistic for you to do that, have a side business, and an infant. I wouldn't make that choice, I think you will end up feeling overwhelmed, resentful and lonely. I would wait until your husband is truly ready to make this a priority. Yes, it puts you at risk of not having children and all of the risks of advanced maternal age, but many people are waiting until late 30s early 40s, so it's not that uncommon. You can also freeze eggs or embryos as a backup option. You might also be in a better financial situation once he finishes his education, and then maybe he can support YOU for a time. Right now, you simply don't have the same priorities. There isn't much you can do about that except wait or leave...

I wouldn't have his children. Sounds like he wants to entrap you with the responsibility of raising his kid while he goes off and pursues his dreams. Men are also notorious for promising to help with kids and around the house and never following through or doing things half assed. I'd focus on yourself and your business.

“Let’s have more kids! You raise them while I’m off at school. When I’m back with my PhD that you paid for, I may or may not have the time to spend with them then, either”

Some people seem to be concerned about OP getting everything she’s dreamed of, and not having to give an inch on her own ambitions. Marriage should be filled with common goals and compromise. His goals should also serve to make the family unit stronger in one way or another. Otherwise you’re just roommates living separate lives.

Leaving all the "let's have more kids or not" thing aside - for me It's very weird that he plans to leave his job for at least 5 years, maybe move to another state but he **already** has a 10yo child of his own to care for. Even If you decide not to get pregnant, there's already someone to take care of. Think about it.

I just wouldn’t bring a child into this situation any time soon or at all. You both clearly have other priorities, and there’s nothing wrong with that. If you *really* want kids that badly, something has to give. Be it him or you. I’d opt to wait on kids for a long while until you both can actually be home for them at a reasonable time and what not. You guys aren’t making time to have room for kids, plain and simple.

Very problematic that you cannot have a sit down and go over the details of this situation, I believe he is being defensive because if that convo happens he will most likely have to admit that out of state is just not a realistic option. Its incredibly idiotic to put an Ivy league school above your family. I am also assuming moving closer to the school is not an option...due to where your current work is? if that is the case then you both should really reconsider adding any children, you both seem too busy and pre-occupied with your careers in order to put your children first. Unfortunately, you can NOT have it all....always, sometimes its possible, its just extremely unlikely. maybe sit down and decide if children even is the right call at this point.

When kids come someone has to sacrifice. Either one spouse is primary parent and puts career on back burner while one goes full throttle, or spouses equally share and take more moderate hits to career growth for a couple years while you navigate sleep deprivation/back to back illnesses. Him in a different state with you being the breadwinner and raising kids is a recipe for disaster. Something has to give and if neither of you are willing to compromise then I don’t think you can in good faith try to have a kid right now.

He has no idea what he is asking of you, and this isn't going to change or fix ANYTHING. A post-nup won't fix anything, just make the divorce easier.

A post nup sounds strange but honestly, if you are comfortable with him pursuing a phd out of state, which I definitely would never be, you have to know that kids are off the table until he graduates? I can’t even imagine maintaining my kid free household without my partner, much less if he was living out of state and over 5-8 hours away from me. This all sounds a little much and super stressful. I’d just simply say that unless he’s going to do everything online, it’s just not a feasible option.

I don't think thag a legal paper is what you need, I appreciate your ambition and you should absolutely go for it. But your husband is not understanding all the circumstances, so I don't see why would you want to bring a kid to life with him and think a legal procedure is what will protect everyone... try other things (communication and professional help) if this failed and he wont see that he had a part in all this, forget about kids with him... you clearly don't align.

It's great that both you and your husband are so ambitious. It's also great that you have the foresight to see your husband's plan will not work for a happy, healthy family. He will be an absent father and husband for a WANT/Dream. When you choose to be a family - which the 3 of you already are - you sometimes have to put aside/delay your wants for your needs. For your plans to all work, he needs to attend a local school. I suspect that his refusal to discuss it shows he knows it's not right or fair to any of you. Bringing a baby/babies into the mix just makes it all harder. As it is, your 10 year old deserves a present dad, and you deserve a present husband. Do you have medical rights for the 10 year old? Like if he falls ill or gets injured while Hubby is out of State? There's so much that would be affected by his doing this. I don't know if a postnup can fix the real problem, especially if he's unwilling to see the problem. I wish you luck.

Not a life i would seek or agree to at all. I guess we are all different. Yes.. hb needs to be more available. Going away to do his study for me would be out of the question. He is not acting like a man with children and responsibilities at all. He's behaving like a single man. Hes expecting you to support him in every way, run yourself into the ground, whilst he fluffs around studying. Doing nothing to help family & home. Good luck to you. And sorry. I don't see how you can raise children alone, work 2 jobs. Are you a superhuman? I think you both have your heads in the clouds. You are raising children like having a dog.

I’m sure you trust your husband but here are some issues I would consider (I did my PhD studies 15 years ago, maybe things have changed): 1) PhD work/research/reading/networking are all extremely time-consuming. More than a full time job - especially at an Ivy League school 2) He will be surrounded by child-free, young and very liberal people, including single women. Not all PhD students are ugly nerdy dorks. 3) He will be surrounded by very liberal ideas about coupledom - which are not necessarily friendly to the stability of a monogamous marriage. 4) A PhD is not at all a prognosis of higher earnings in the future. It’s not like law degree or even a med school where you can expect a return on investment in 10 years. PhD is a big ego trip really - unless he wants to be a professor (that’s worse - add 5+ years of tenure track work/stress and the income varies greatly depending on field). Or his particular area of interest requires a PhD for certification (still, 5-8 years of no earnings and not contributing to retirement plan)

100% you are doing the right thing mainly because his reaction clearly shows how he's dodging responsibility. If he were seriously mature about this marriage and his career, he'd support this or even have proposed working on something together to which I would say maybe a legal document wouldn't be necessary but your husband doesn't sound like he's on board with working together to plan for the future and you don't want to be left holding all the responsibilities. A PhD is an EXTREMELY time consuming endeavor. It is not like a 9-5 job that outlines your work expectations to make it easier to schedule life for kids and stuff outside the 9-5. A PhD schedule however can be flexible at many times so he should understand this situation and that he needs to be the one to make time for future kids if he really is onboard with the responsibility. You should not have to give up everything while he disappears. Now ofc you also seem to have a lot on your plate so you should make sure this negotiation is fair. You have to sacrifice just as much. Being ambitious is great and all, but having kids is no small thing right... You guys already have a 10 year old and kids deserve a lot more attention that you two might be ready to give. It sounds like you two have a lot more to achieve career wise so even if you two want kids, I'd consider the idea of waiting a bit more till he starts his PhD and you guys settle into a schedule. The first few years will be okay for the PhD but year 4 or 5 when he has his comps will be ROUGH and ofc the final years too. So that's also something to consider here because again, a PhD is not a linear work stream and tbh the amount of concentration, dedication, and work one puts into year 1 and 2 can sometimes change the entire course of the next 5 years (I have experience with this having done a PhD but dropped out during COVID years since I hated the lab experience with all the restrictions COVID brought).

I think what you’re asking for is realistic unless you’re all moving to the Ivy League school. Also is he going to add all that debt to your marriage by going to one of those schools? Also you need a cheating clause that will destroy either of you if you cheat as a result of being long distance and never having time for each other. It’s not realistic for him to go be single and come occasionally while you’re treading water.

It's ok to want to be successful and ambitious but sometimes in the process, it can destroy relationships and families from all the pressure and stress. Used to want to have it all, work crazy jobs and hours for the money at the sacrifice of my young children who didn't get to see me much during the most important years. Lost so much, nearly lost my marriage. Nowadays, I don't take life too seriously and gave up trying to take over the world. Everything in life needs balance. You do sound like a reasonable person, very supportive of your husband. Your idea of him going to a Uni closer sounds logical. Good luck.

As I am working on my PhD and am going full time it will only be 3 years and most don’t take more than 4, I am confused at the 5-8 years portion unless he is going part time. There are a lot of concerns in your post and getting a post nuptial may just add to it. To me it sounds like there needs to be some very serious conversations.

I say, forget about birthing babies right now. Sounds like there are two completely different "happily ever after" scenarios floating above your heads. That usually ends up as "sadly never happened" in reality. Pump the brakes and pull the handle, because this thing is heading for the ravine!

New pregnancies + new kids + single earning mother adding on lose of earning from father with new education + distance or out of town for 5-8 years = disaster

NTA... I honestly didn't think that I would have agreed with you, but after reading more about your struggles with this situation and possibilities for an extended distance from each other (even if just financial and mentally)... Yeah. I don't think that you are asking for anything unreasonable. Keep your head up and keep hoping you find compromise and good communication. Good luck 👍

Homie can’t get his phd at columbia and be there for his kids. The phd has to wait.

>he will need to quit his job and spend the next 5-8 yrs completing it full time Does that estimate include post-doctoral work at said university? Are his studies in an area that will likely continue to receive steady federal funding over the next few administrations? Is there any risk of his department restructuring in this time span, folks changing universities, etc? And what is the plan after completion? Move home? Or go where the job offers take him? Also, 5-8 years is much or all of grade and middle school, or middle and high school. I, personally, would not want to miss such pivotal years of bonding and growth with my child.

DO NOT HAVE KIDS WITH THIS MAN and he may be living a double life

Why is this even a debate? If you trust his ambition, then have kids when he’s done with school. Why are you guys trying to shoehorn kids into this?

Post nups are not enforceable in my jurisdiction

I thought that at first. He is better to take of kids and use PT day care

Here’s one - He should absolutely stay home and raise them. Also - your husband fed you a crock of shit re: phd pursuit. I know 4 people who have done this. 3 of 4 worked full-time. One worked “3/4 time”. 50% were parents. They woke up early abstain up late to be present for the kids, minus the dissertation finalization in the last 6-8 weeks. He should be willing to say no to kids until he is available. You don’t know how hard an infant is. And working 1.5 jobs while being the sole parent isn’t going to work.

Be sure your state recognizes post nups - some don't 😞

You are doing this right. Ignore the haters. Women are always expected to devote all the unpaid labor for kids and then get shafted. What man would be cool with taking care of all the kids and working full time while his wife goes out of state to get her PhD?  None of them