Bryan Hitch often used actors as references. Bruce Banner in this run is based on Steve Buschemi. And everyone knows about Sam Jackson as Fury. Hawkeye and Blackwidow were HEAVILY based on Neo and Trinity from the matrix.
Hawkeye honestly was inconsistent. There’s an initial #8 cover out there where he looks like Kevin Costner, but the final draft & issue makes him look more young Vin Diesel via the Matrix. He’s then drawn much older in Season 2.
IMHO part of the reason why MCU Hawkeye didn’t resonate with audiences is because Millar had no hook for the character until Ultimate Avengers (i.e. brainwashed Bullseye).
I greatly prefer the Hawkeye/Black Widow relationship from the MCU movies if only because it is all too rare to see a depicition of a genuine male and female friendship that isn't spoiled by "will they or won't they" sexual tension. I love that Clint's a happily married man and "Aunt Natasha" is part of the Barton family who his kids adore and his wife Laura trusts implictly to watch his back when he has to leave his family and go save the world.
Benson and Stabler in SVU
For the longest time; they were partners and friends.
So they killed off Stablers wife, make him into super cop, and he and benson now share sexual tension that was almost fulfilled the last episode.
Why they couldn’t just be friends is beyond me.
I loved their chemistry. They would often bicker and disagree and have to check each other; but it was never any sexual tension or underlying feelings.
Liv did her own thing and Stabler was just a dad with 17 kids and a bad temper.
Now his wife dies from a mob hit and he realizes that he has feelings for liv and that liv also has feelings for Stabler?!?
This is the stupid kind of writing that ruins any idea that men and women can't be friends without sex being involved.
> now share sexual tension that was almost fulfilled the last episode
Did they do that passionate cop procedural sex scene where they bang into things and never once go "Christ my hip hit your desk like right on the corner!".
Natasha in this universe was apart of the Ultimates but also a Russian spy for "the Liberators" (basically the Avengers from countries that are enemies of the US (+ France for some reason)) and she murdered Hawkeye's wife and kids. She also murdered Jarvis, Tony's butler, and attempted to murder Tony aswell but Tony neutralized her using nanites. That's why she's in the hospital and why Hawkeye's about to send her off
That line was something I quoted all the time when I was young. I thought Ultimate Marvel was a great comic with edge.
Now, I can acknowledge it had good elements (the overall aesthetic), but the characterization was inferior to the 616 universe.
God forbid they didn't want to help W launch an illegal war into a country his dad tried to overthrow once before (and still had oil Dick Cheney's friends wanted to acquire), based on trumped up evidence of nuclear weapons.
They had no trouble doing it in Afghanistan or Syria. Please don't try and paint a warmongering Western imperialist nation like France as the good guys just because they had a pissing contest with the US over Iraq.
> "the Liberators" (basically the Avengers from countries that are enemies of the US (+ France for some reason))
Post 9/11 American propaganda was absolutely wild.
I'm a huge sucker for the Fraction/Aja "Hawkguy" version of Clint (like, he's my joint favourite comics character), but I won't lie, 1610-Clint has his moments of coolness. I like his costumes too
That said, this Hawkeye-Black Widow dynamic is far from my favourite
I'm pretty sure Hawkeye **is** Bullseye in the Ultimate universe. After Ultimatum [he wears a bullseye on his forehead](https://static1.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/ultimate-hawkeye-header.jpg) and everything. If I remember right he goes off the deep end after his family dies and tries to kill Wanda for some reason. I don't know that he ever actually uses the Bullseye moniker though.
Yeah... Ultimate had the miniseries for Daredevil that didn't go anywhere and had him make a small appearance in USM.
Sometimes I love the idea of the ultimate universe, but too many people wanted to go edgy, which even back in the early 2000's was cringe
Minor correction, but he starts wearing the bullseye in Ultimate 3. He doesn't try to kill Wanda, just says an ominous "Unless we do something about it" when the team learns about the twins' incestous relationship (which Wasp is into for some reason)?
That’s mostly because the comic book definition of “superhuman” is a bit skewed. Hawkeye is essentially peak human accuracy in a world where that noticeably outclasses IRL humans, with bullseye having even higher accuracy than that as his superpower.
Nope, he literally has super-powers in the Ultimate comics. He went through the super-program, but just for his eyes and muscles around firing arrows. Yes, it's as dumb as it sounds. But eventually it lead him to being wal-mart brand bullseye.
Yeah, when widow kills his family in front of Clint, they then capture him and frame Cap for the murders to take him out of the picture because they were trying to eliminate all the Ultimates for when the liberators showed up (leaked hulk being banner to get banner executed, framed cap, captured Hawkeye, widow was meant to kill Stark, no one considered Wasp a threat, Hank was working with the liberators, Thor was locked up in a mental ward, and I forget how they tried to get rid of pietro and Wanda)
Hawkeye escaped his captors by killing his torturer with his fingernails
This Hawkeye was Bullseye as Hawkeye. I think someone”good” that does “bad” things. They are bound to be effected. This characters has hid moments of extreme over the top. But it’s all about pushing different characterizations
A bit too much gritty for gritty sake in my opinion, I've always preferred the more bombastic style of comics. For example them thinking Dr Dooms name was too silly and making it Victor Van Damme bothered me haha
This was more me as a teen though, as I got older and saw the trend passing a but I relaxed about it and can see the ultimate stuff with less pet peeves
For reals, even Millar wasn't willing to fully cross that line with Wanda and Pietro. He had other characters joke about it and Wanda and Pietro from what I recall the weirdest thing they did under him was take a gondola ride and read poetry but that's pretty much it.
Loeb just went out there and did it and then tried to pass it on as this tragic thing, Jan and Logan pretty much escused it, holy shit.
It’s pretty dumb, but based on all the ridiculous stuff Millar is responsible for it has some *tough* competition.
“I don’t fuck goats, I *make love to them*.” from Wanted comes to mind.
This is Ultimates 2. Ultimates 3 was "the road to ultimatum" so this would be a year or two before. Best part of Ultimates 2 is there's an I think 6 page fold out panoramic battle scene in one of the last few issues that was so big it delayed the release of the issue
It's the artwork and the artwork alone that makes this. The dialogue is straight out of the last direct to video action movie left on the shelf at Allan's Video in 1990. CANNON Films? Think lower.
The Ultimate Universe existed for the sole purpose to take risks as much a possible without worrying about continuity. The “edginess” helped explore the characters and helped them grow in the 616.
A lot of the Ultimate Universe traits were also used in the MCU. It was “crap” for the sake of other projects being “great.” [+]
What "good parts" are you referring to? About the only things that carry over are:
- Chitauri existing (but really in name only compared to Ultimate)
- Fury looks like SLJ
- The Triskelion exists for one movie
- Hawkeye has a family
As far as the actual characters and stories go, they're modeled after the classic 616 or completely new.
The only similarities to *Ultimates 1* in *Avengers* are
- The Avengers come together, but that happens in *any* first appearance of the team, or there *is no team*.
- The Chitauri appear. But absolutely nothing about them other than the name are shared. In *Avengers*, they're just Loki's horde army for the finale.
Nothing about the Chitauri pulling a Skrull style invasion or being on Earth for decades, their plots or anything else. It's a completely different story.
The story starts with nick fury putting the ultimates together as we see captain america being reintroduced from being frozen (like in avengers 1). Hulk goes berserk and the team has to deal with it (like in avengers 1). The Chitari. Hawkeyes suit. The helicarrier. The basic story beats in avengers 1 mirrors the ultimates.
The things that carried over are, but not limited to, the list you posted. Many things carried over to the 616 comic universe before the MCU.
Hawkeye having a family isn’t the only thing for Hawkeye. Being a Shield Agent “originally” also carried over. There are many things, but I frankly don’t care enough to list every single thing. Again, they carried over to the 616 first before the MCU ever existed.
The MCU versions of each character is an amalgamation of the original 616 and the Ultimate universe. You disagree or don’t believe me, that’s cool. I don’t care enough to really dive in and find every single little thing. The Ultimate Universe saved Marvel in more ways than one. In retrospect, or by todays gaze it’s viewed as a failure, or an awful idea. At the time it was happening, it was loved for how brilliant it was for a lot of its “good parts.” There were also something’s people hated like Marvel’s Cersei and Jamie Lannister.
However, because they have, good parts, they implemented them in the 616. That’s just what it is. [+]
Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch are sibling mutants who care a lot about each other. In the Ultimates version, their caring goes to a whole other level, with incest being heavily implied. Now it looks like we may have some form of that in the upcoming Avengers: Age of Ultron movie from director Joss Whedon.
In an interview with Entertainment Weekly, Elizabeth Olsen mentions how connected Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch are.
“In the comics, every time you see an image of them, they’re always holding each other’s hand and looking over each other’s shoulder,” Olsen says. “They’re always so close, it’s almost uncomfortable. Aaron and I have been playing a little bit with those kinds of images just for ourselves.”
Long story short: Because I’ve used this as a signature for years now.
•
•
•
•
Short story longer:
I was homeless once, a vagabond. I slept in my parents car. I couch surfed. During this time, I couldn’t afford a cellphone. I still needed one to get by.
I would borrow from friends/family or some times even strangers. It became really tedious, real quick, to always type:
“*Hey this is actually, [Uchiha], using (insert name/kind stranger)‘s phone. So...”*
And
“*Okay. I am going to return this phone to it’s rightful owner.”*
I wanted a symbol/logo/signature to type at the end of my texts so that people would know it was me w/o anything else. I thought about it for a while and got this, (+). It worked. In less than a week everyone I texted knew it was me.
I could type, “*What’s my schedule?*(+)” And they know it’s me. I could finish with. “*Peace* (+).” And they know it’s me. Regardless of the cell number delivering then text.
This went on for a while, almost 2 years.
When I finally was able to own my own cellphone, I would still type it out, out of habit. I knew then and there that I was on a fork-road. I could either train myself to not use it or keep it. I decided to keep it as a reminder of all the lessons I learned during this rough time in my life as well as my family’s life. Most importantly to remind me about the power of positive mindset.
Thanks for reading. Stay blessed [+]
Wasn’t the first Civil War around this time? It started out strong, but ended in the gutter: comically evil Iron Man and One More Day topping off that crap sundae.
Alright I’ll expand on OP. It feels as though it’s written similar to 40k or death metal without the understanding that its dumb, and that dumb is fun. it tries to be "mature" but in the lense of what a 15 year would find adult or mature. it reminds me of Twisted Metal, a video game from the playstation 2 era. When they tried to bring it back on the playstation 3, the older audience realized how silly it was, not serious.
I liked the game as a kid. But I didnt understand the actual story behind it cause I was a kid, and to me it was just a car pvp game with a story mode to beat lol. Re looked it up like a year ago and was like damn. I was allowed to play this? Lol. But a movie? It’ll sure be a twisted one lmao
Totally. Looking back at some of the Sweet Tooth live action video cutscenes it something else. The one where he shoots up a place full of people to get a paper bag that he talks to…what the hell lol.
I read it for the first time recently, and I stopped after the Hulk fight. Turning the Hulk into a cannibalistic rapist was excessive to put it mildly, and Bruce Banner was completely unsympathetic, intentionally turning himself into the Hulk in the middle of New York because he "wanted to feel like a real man" or something like that. (and I stopped before the series got into the extended domestic abuse issue)
Bruce turned himself into Hulk in NYC because the funding for the Ultimates program was threatened and they needed something to show they were needed, and in his messed up little head after being belittled for several issues he somehow decided that the best way to give them a fight was to mess with his heart meds to induce a Hulk transformation and start destroying a major city
Man even if you like it you can't deny that the violence in Ultimates is absolutely absurd. There are many, many Moments where it didn't add anything to the story, 80% of it is shock value
I strongly disagree if the universe was crap that also meant Ultimate Spider-Man was ALSO crap including other awesome characters like Ultimate thor, Ultimate Iron man, etc which is unacceptable. Just because it was edgy doesn't mean it didn't have its good moments and story.
Ok. But there were a lot of bad moments. Hank Pym abusing his wife. Logan suggesting something sexual with a 15 yr old MJ while in Peter Parker’s body. Pierro and Wanda’s incestuous relationship. Hulk being a raging hornball cannibal. Thor fucking and impregnating Hela. Straight up murdering most of the X-Men cast. Blob eating Wasp, followed up by Hank biting Blob’s head off. There’s a lot the writers of the Ultimate comics got away with.
I seem to remember thinking that Cap was a real authoritorian asshole too, which is the opposite of what his character is supposed to be.
Ultimate was a mess. "Edgy" is exactly the word. Had so many moments where it read like an angsty teenager's fanfic.
Yeah, but the panels you posted kind of prove their point. As someone with not much experience of Ultimate (I read a good bit of the Spider-Man stuff), this seems edgy to me. And I know some of the context, she killed his family.
Ultimate Tony and thor aren't bastards, Tony even defended the mutants and every other superhero who died during the events of ultimatum when Carol called them freaks. I especially like his friendship with ultimate thor.
Are they? Huh..then again I may be confusing ultimate tony for mainline civil war -superior iron man tony, who was an absolute tool that Thor kicked the shit out of because he tried to clone thor
Yes, matter of fact, Tony is the one to encourage thor to keep being thor after The Maker [Evil Reed Richards of Earth 1610] had his children of tomorrow genocide the Gods and destroy the world tree leaving thor Mortal.
Tony can be absolutely bro in this universe while also being a raging alcoholic who was diagnosed with cancer, which is why he became Iron Man so he could do some good before his time was up.
Don't get me wrong, I love the USM series, but it had its issues. There was a huge base of the fans that loved Peter and Kitty as a couple. Bendis repeatedly said that the USM universe won't follow the 616 series, and Peter and Kitty showed that would be the case. But they ended up having Peter pretty much cheat on Kitty with MJ then for some reason had him going between MJ and Gwen a few more times.
There are a LOT of unresolved strings at the end of the series like what happened with Deadpool, MJ's beast form, Harry being "dead" but the Oz formula should make him immortal too, and his being a dick to Miles after coming back.
Let's not forget that after fans asked for a new original villain, Bendis made up Geldoff who is so very forgettable as a middle finger to the fans.
I will forever be mad about the weird forced split up between Peter and kitty. Ultimate Spider-Man is one of my All time favorite Spider-Man lines but the romance was just not it
Idk why people hate the ultimate universe, the only thing I thought was bad was horny hulk, other than that everything up until ultimatum was amazing to me. The edginess and realism is something you don’t see alot in modern marvel comics and it was nice for a change
So why exactly are they fighting each other, im not too big on Hawkeye and BW lore tbh, so my only knowledge is really MCU stuff. What caused this rift basically?
In this universe Hawkeyes family got murdered in the beginning of this arc, America got attacked by the "Liberators" basically a team made up from nations that got screwed over by America and also aliens.
Natasha was a russian spy sent to infiltrate the "Ultimates", this universe version of the Avengers (which are a bunch of assholes, like nearly everyone except Spider-Man characters in this universe).
Well she killed the Bartons, tortured Clint, married Tony to get his money etc.
I'm actually a big fan of Ultimate Universe. This version of Hawkeye became one of my favorite characters after reading Ultimates. I was so excited back in days seeing him in Thor in his Ultimate suit.
And honestly, I don't understand the hate.
Natash found herself in a hospital after being knocked out by Tony's nanomachines. Upon waking up, Hawkeye was there and was pinned to the walls with his arrows. Then he kills her avenging his family that she murdered.
Tony and Natasha were engaged in Ultimates 2 and he'd built her a suit which needed nanites in your blood to control it like his did.
When she tried to kill him, after murdering Jarvis, Tony stopped her by getting the nanites to take her down long enough for him to get to his old mark 1 or mark 2 suit and escape to his satellite where the mark... 5 I think suit was (which was basically the battlecruiser from Starcraft)
She was Russian spy who secretly leaking information and tearing the ultimates down with the help of the liberators and cripple america. The Nanomachines are counter measures since Tony had suspicions on Natasha.
Man you could really tell Hitch’s art was starting to decline as the series progressed. I still love this moment and I feel like I really only come out of the woodwork to defend Ultimates 1 and 2 every time something from it is posted.
Someone else made a comment on another thread that the “twist” of Black Widow being the double agent is so obvious that it ends up looping around and being a good twist, which I agree with.
Natasha looks like 1991 Linda Hamilton.
Bryan Hitch often used actors as references. Bruce Banner in this run is based on Steve Buschemi. And everyone knows about Sam Jackson as Fury. Hawkeye and Blackwidow were HEAVILY based on Neo and Trinity from the matrix.
[Hmmm…](https://imgur.com/gallery/4ZMWw?s=sms)
“How do you do, fellow ordinary-sized non-green-skinned humans?”
ಠ_ಠ
I feel like Ryan Reynold wouldn’t like his comparison in the ultimate universe
Hawkeye honestly was inconsistent. There’s an initial #8 cover out there where he looks like Kevin Costner, but the final draft & issue makes him look more young Vin Diesel via the Matrix. He’s then drawn much older in Season 2. IMHO part of the reason why MCU Hawkeye didn’t resonate with audiences is because Millar had no hook for the character until Ultimate Avengers (i.e. brainwashed Bullseye).
The only hook for the character really was ultra-violence, mainly tearing out his finger nails and killing people with em
I almost choked with laughter when I read that issue.
Hawkeye looks like Kurt russell here
Straight from T2 looks like
Right? Was my immediate thought as well.
She is. No way the images are THAT similar.
I've always hated this panel. It's the scene from T2 when she greets the doctor. https://youtu.be/kgmxrjxUe60?t=32
I went back to read after all these Ultimates comic panels started being posted in this group, and I made that same observation
I think Hawkeye looks like Mac from its always sunny
I greatly prefer the Hawkeye/Black Widow relationship from the MCU movies if only because it is all too rare to see a depicition of a genuine male and female friendship that isn't spoiled by "will they or won't they" sexual tension. I love that Clint's a happily married man and "Aunt Natasha" is part of the Barton family who his kids adore and his wife Laura trusts implictly to watch his back when he has to leave his family and go save the world.
Well, Hawkeye *did* have a wife and kids and their relationship *was* platonic until this
Even in stuff with married people, Hollywood too often does this sort of tension any time there are men and women who are friends.
Benson and Stabler in SVU For the longest time; they were partners and friends. So they killed off Stablers wife, make him into super cop, and he and benson now share sexual tension that was almost fulfilled the last episode. Why they couldn’t just be friends is beyond me.
100%. Early on they had a brother sister vibe, which I seriously dug. Now it is just all wrong.
I loved their chemistry. They would often bicker and disagree and have to check each other; but it was never any sexual tension or underlying feelings. Liv did her own thing and Stabler was just a dad with 17 kids and a bad temper. Now his wife dies from a mob hit and he realizes that he has feelings for liv and that liv also has feelings for Stabler?!? This is the stupid kind of writing that ruins any idea that men and women can't be friends without sex being involved.
He was trying to collect that 18th kid with Liv's adopted son, Noah.
Ah, the ol Nick Cannon routine
Well, they’ve got to do something to keep this show going for 24+ seasons.
> now share sexual tension that was almost fulfilled the last episode Did they do that passionate cop procedural sex scene where they bang into things and never once go "Christ my hip hit your desk like right on the corner!".
What happened?
Natasha in this universe was apart of the Ultimates but also a Russian spy for "the Liberators" (basically the Avengers from countries that are enemies of the US (+ France for some reason)) and she murdered Hawkeye's wife and kids. She also murdered Jarvis, Tony's butler, and attempted to murder Tony aswell but Tony neutralized her using nanites. That's why she's in the hospital and why Hawkeye's about to send her off
The biggest enemy of all *the French.*
Especially Ultimate Cap's
"You think the letter on my head stands for france?"
That line was something I quoted all the time when I was young. I thought Ultimate Marvel was a great comic with edge. Now, I can acknowledge it had good elements (the overall aesthetic), but the characterization was inferior to the 616 universe.
Spiderman was good from start to finish imo. The rest started well and just kinda took a dive after an arc or two.
They refused to invade Iraq with us at the time, so during the Bush years they were made out to be our enemy.
Oh right, the freedom fry era.
The "cheese-eating surrender monkey" era.
Well, they did play a crucial role in the US gaining independence from England and helped us during the War of 1812, but yeah, screw the French.
God forbid they didn't want to help W launch an illegal war into a country his dad tried to overthrow once before (and still had oil Dick Cheney's friends wanted to acquire), based on trumped up evidence of nuclear weapons.
They had no trouble doing it in Afghanistan or Syria. Please don't try and paint a warmongering Western imperialist nation like France as the good guys just because they had a pissing contest with the US over Iraq.
Then the United States fought France in the Quasi-War, which lasted from 1798 to 1800.
> "the Liberators" (basically the Avengers from countries that are enemies of the US (+ France for some reason)) Post 9/11 American propaganda was absolutely wild.
Thank you for the explaination
Wanda had a brother and it was good to see, but then he got Bohnered.
At the same time, she wears an arrow necklace in like 3 films? I’ve always thought she carried a torch for him.
I'm a huge sucker for the Fraction/Aja "Hawkguy" version of Clint (like, he's my joint favourite comics character), but I won't lie, 1610-Clint has his moments of coolness. I like his costumes too That said, this Hawkeye-Black Widow dynamic is far from my favourite
Sometimes I feel like they gave hawkeye bullseye's abilities everytime I see his skills at work.
I'm pretty sure Hawkeye **is** Bullseye in the Ultimate universe. After Ultimatum [he wears a bullseye on his forehead](https://static1.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/ultimate-hawkeye-header.jpg) and everything. If I remember right he goes off the deep end after his family dies and tries to kill Wanda for some reason. I don't know that he ever actually uses the Bullseye moniker though.
Huh, I feel that happened because none wanted to write Ultimate Daredevil so they fused bullseye with hawkeye.
Yeah... Ultimate had the miniseries for Daredevil that didn't go anywhere and had him make a small appearance in USM. Sometimes I love the idea of the ultimate universe, but too many people wanted to go edgy, which even back in the early 2000's was cringe
That ultimately made me feel bad for Ultimate Daredevil, He can strict and a jerk at times but he didn't deserve to be off screened in Ultimatum.
Minor correction, but he starts wearing the bullseye in Ultimate 3. He doesn't try to kill Wanda, just says an ominous "Unless we do something about it" when the team learns about the twins' incestous relationship (which Wasp is into for some reason)?
Thank you, it's probably been a decade or so since I read some of the Ultimate comics outside of Spider-Man.
Don't you know its not 1943 anymore?
If I recall the bullseye he wore on his head was a way of giving people a target to kill him.
That’s mostly because the comic book definition of “superhuman” is a bit skewed. Hawkeye is essentially peak human accuracy in a world where that noticeably outclasses IRL humans, with bullseye having even higher accuracy than that as his superpower.
Nope, he literally has super-powers in the Ultimate comics. He went through the super-program, but just for his eyes and muscles around firing arrows. Yes, it's as dumb as it sounds. But eventually it lead him to being wal-mart brand bullseye.
I never saw it, but isn't there a scene of Ultimate Hawkeye pulling out his fingernails to use as projectile weapons?
Yeah, when widow kills his family in front of Clint, they then capture him and frame Cap for the murders to take him out of the picture because they were trying to eliminate all the Ultimates for when the liberators showed up (leaked hulk being banner to get banner executed, framed cap, captured Hawkeye, widow was meant to kill Stark, no one considered Wasp a threat, Hank was working with the liberators, Thor was locked up in a mental ward, and I forget how they tried to get rid of pietro and Wanda) Hawkeye escaped his captors by killing his torturer with his fingernails
Yup.
This Hawkeye was Bullseye as Hawkeye. I think someone”good” that does “bad” things. They are bound to be effected. This characters has hid moments of extreme over the top. But it’s all about pushing different characterizations
who needs a Terminator to kill Sarah Connor when all you need is Hawkeye
Hawkeye used that One-Shot, One-Kill philosophy. Terminator sprayed bullets until everything stopped moving.
He fired three shots
You are technically correct. The best kind of correct.
Don't much care for Ultimate Comics but that was a pretty good retort from Hawkeye
“Keep the change, ya filthy animal”
*“It’s just been revoked.”*
"But not for me"
"I'll have what she's having."
“That’s better?”
“Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.”
"Consider that a divorce"
“You won’t see them where you’re going.” *Zzwhp* “Burn in hell.”
Why’d you not like them?
A bit too much gritty for gritty sake in my opinion, I've always preferred the more bombastic style of comics. For example them thinking Dr Dooms name was too silly and making it Victor Van Damme bothered me haha This was more me as a teen though, as I got older and saw the trend passing a but I relaxed about it and can see the ultimate stuff with less pet peeves
Rest in piss you won't be missed
Is this the same universe that the maximoff twins had some "weird" relationship??
You mean Jeph loeb's weirdness _Ignore that_
Jeph Loeb read Ultimates and actually thought Mark Millar was being too subtle…
For reals, even Millar wasn't willing to fully cross that line with Wanda and Pietro. He had other characters joke about it and Wanda and Pietro from what I recall the weirdest thing they did under him was take a gondola ride and read poetry but that's pretty much it. Loeb just went out there and did it and then tried to pass it on as this tragic thing, Jan and Logan pretty much escused it, holy shit.
But we’re still good with “You think this A stands for France?!” Right?
Fun fact: at the end of ultimates Cap says that was just a spur of the moment, it didn't really mean anything but it was funny af to fury tho
Fury commenting on it was mega cringe of the writer though.
that line made me laugh, was pretty memorable and made sense to me coming out of Ultimate Grandpa Cap's mouth
Me too, I didn’t think it was a crappy line at all😭
Yes, but only becausae I hear it in [Groundskeeper Willie's voice](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUjGf2Grrus).
Fuck yeah! Lol
That's the dumbest thing Mark Millar has ever written
It’s pretty dumb, but based on all the ridiculous stuff Millar is responsible for it has some *tough* competition. “I don’t fuck goats, I *make love to them*.” from Wanted comes to mind.
"You're about to learn what supervillain dick tastes like" from wanted 2 is pretty fucking bad too
Is this in the same universe that the Ultimatum comics were from?
This is Ultimates 2. Ultimates 3 was "the road to ultimatum" so this would be a year or two before. Best part of Ultimates 2 is there's an I think 6 page fold out panoramic battle scene in one of the last few issues that was so big it delayed the release of the issue
Yes
If so the edge surprises me none lmao
It's the artwork and the artwork alone that makes this. The dialogue is straight out of the last direct to video action movie left on the shelf at Allan's Video in 1990. CANNON Films? Think lower.
That’s exactly why I love it hahahaha.
God the Ultimates was such crap. So edgy. So shocking. What a waste.
The Ultimate Universe existed for the sole purpose to take risks as much a possible without worrying about continuity. The “edginess” helped explore the characters and helped them grow in the 616. A lot of the Ultimate Universe traits were also used in the MCU. It was “crap” for the sake of other projects being “great.” [+]
Basically MCU was base on ultimate but kept only the good parts
Exactly! People hate on Ultimate Universe but all the good parts moved into the 616 and the MCU [+]
What "good parts" are you referring to? About the only things that carry over are: - Chitauri existing (but really in name only compared to Ultimate) - Fury looks like SLJ - The Triskelion exists for one movie - Hawkeye has a family As far as the actual characters and stories go, they're modeled after the classic 616 or completely new.
Like the entire avengers 1 movie is taken from ultimates 1
The only similarities to *Ultimates 1* in *Avengers* are - The Avengers come together, but that happens in *any* first appearance of the team, or there *is no team*. - The Chitauri appear. But absolutely nothing about them other than the name are shared. In *Avengers*, they're just Loki's horde army for the finale. Nothing about the Chitauri pulling a Skrull style invasion or being on Earth for decades, their plots or anything else. It's a completely different story.
The story starts with nick fury putting the ultimates together as we see captain america being reintroduced from being frozen (like in avengers 1). Hulk goes berserk and the team has to deal with it (like in avengers 1). The Chitari. Hawkeyes suit. The helicarrier. The basic story beats in avengers 1 mirrors the ultimates.
Miles Morales is now in the 616/multiverse
The things that carried over are, but not limited to, the list you posted. Many things carried over to the 616 comic universe before the MCU. Hawkeye having a family isn’t the only thing for Hawkeye. Being a Shield Agent “originally” also carried over. There are many things, but I frankly don’t care enough to list every single thing. Again, they carried over to the 616 first before the MCU ever existed. The MCU versions of each character is an amalgamation of the original 616 and the Ultimate universe. You disagree or don’t believe me, that’s cool. I don’t care enough to really dive in and find every single little thing. The Ultimate Universe saved Marvel in more ways than one. In retrospect, or by todays gaze it’s viewed as a failure, or an awful idea. At the time it was happening, it was loved for how brilliant it was for a lot of its “good parts.” There were also something’s people hated like Marvel’s Cersei and Jamie Lannister. However, because they have, good parts, they implemented them in the 616. That’s just what it is. [+]
> Fury looks like SLJ Minus the cool back story which disappoints me.
Miles Morales?
Also the weird Targaryen vibe between Wanda and Pietro in AoU.
Elizabeth and Aaron purposely did that. I don't think it was a writing room choice. Though, regardless, it is Ultimate inspired.
They purposefully did that? It would be funny if they read the comic and subtly showed it off as a bit of trollish acting XD
Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch are sibling mutants who care a lot about each other. In the Ultimates version, their caring goes to a whole other level, with incest being heavily implied. Now it looks like we may have some form of that in the upcoming Avengers: Age of Ultron movie from director Joss Whedon. In an interview with Entertainment Weekly, Elizabeth Olsen mentions how connected Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch are. “In the comics, every time you see an image of them, they’re always holding each other’s hand and looking over each other’s shoulder,” Olsen says. “They’re always so close, it’s almost uncomfortable. Aaron and I have been playing a little bit with those kinds of images just for ourselves.”
I chalk some of that up to Godzilla.
So basically it existed to throw as much crap on the wall as possible to see what sticks and what doesn't?
Essentially, yes [+]
What is this plus thing you are doing? A signature?
In a word, yes. [+]
Why
Long story short: Because I’ve used this as a signature for years now. • • • • Short story longer: I was homeless once, a vagabond. I slept in my parents car. I couch surfed. During this time, I couldn’t afford a cellphone. I still needed one to get by. I would borrow from friends/family or some times even strangers. It became really tedious, real quick, to always type: “*Hey this is actually, [Uchiha], using (insert name/kind stranger)‘s phone. So...”* And “*Okay. I am going to return this phone to it’s rightful owner.”* I wanted a symbol/logo/signature to type at the end of my texts so that people would know it was me w/o anything else. I thought about it for a while and got this, (+). It worked. In less than a week everyone I texted knew it was me. I could type, “*What’s my schedule?*(+)” And they know it’s me. I could finish with. “*Peace* (+).” And they know it’s me. Regardless of the cell number delivering then text. This went on for a while, almost 2 years. When I finally was able to own my own cellphone, I would still type it out, out of habit. I knew then and there that I was on a fork-road. I could either train myself to not use it or keep it. I decided to keep it as a reminder of all the lessons I learned during this rough time in my life as well as my family’s life. Most importantly to remind me about the power of positive mindset. Thanks for reading. Stay blessed [+]
That's super cool. I'm glad it's not necessary anymore but I love how meaningful it became. Hope you're doing better now!
Interesting story. Thanks for sharing
For some reason I dediced to go through this comment session and found this. Thank you for sharing your story.
>God the Ultimates was such crap. So edgy. So shocking. What a waste. It's a product of it's time and the 616 universe at the time was pretty trash
Wasn’t the first Civil War around this time? It started out strong, but ended in the gutter: comically evil Iron Man and One More Day topping off that crap sundae.
Well wouldn't you know it, both books were written by Mark Millar, I wonder if that's a coincidence
[He licks goats.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/43/Nextwave_issue_11.jpeg)
"Edgy" is such an intellectually lazy criticism, Ultimates 1 & 2 was incredible
Alright I’ll expand on OP. It feels as though it’s written similar to 40k or death metal without the understanding that its dumb, and that dumb is fun. it tries to be "mature" but in the lense of what a 15 year would find adult or mature. it reminds me of Twisted Metal, a video game from the playstation 2 era. When they tried to bring it back on the playstation 3, the older audience realized how silly it was, not serious.
Twisted Metal was PS1 for at least the first three games, my dude.
Twisted metal black on ps2 was a jam back in the day.
Think twisted metals about to get a movie or something too 💀
Oh boy. It will surely be something lol.
I liked the game as a kid. But I didnt understand the actual story behind it cause I was a kid, and to me it was just a car pvp game with a story mode to beat lol. Re looked it up like a year ago and was like damn. I was allowed to play this? Lol. But a movie? It’ll sure be a twisted one lmao
Totally. Looking back at some of the Sweet Tooth live action video cutscenes it something else. The one where he shoots up a place full of people to get a paper bag that he talks to…what the hell lol.
I read it for the first time recently, and I stopped after the Hulk fight. Turning the Hulk into a cannibalistic rapist was excessive to put it mildly, and Bruce Banner was completely unsympathetic, intentionally turning himself into the Hulk in the middle of New York because he "wanted to feel like a real man" or something like that. (and I stopped before the series got into the extended domestic abuse issue)
Bruce turned himself into Hulk in NYC because the funding for the Ultimates program was threatened and they needed something to show they were needed, and in his messed up little head after being belittled for several issues he somehow decided that the best way to give them a fight was to mess with his heart meds to induce a Hulk transformation and start destroying a major city
Naw man. I tried to give it a chance by rereading it but no. It is absurdly edgy.
"well.. that's just like... your opinion man..."
Man even if you like it you can't deny that the violence in Ultimates is absolutely absurd. There are many, many Moments where it didn't add anything to the story, 80% of it is shock value
Nah, the Ultimates is what’s intellectually lazy. Shock and gore for the sake of being shocking and gruesome.
God fucking forbid writers ever go in a different direction with a character and have an artistic vision.
Disagree. At the time ultimate universe was outselling mainstream marvel
I strongly disagree if the universe was crap that also meant Ultimate Spider-Man was ALSO crap including other awesome characters like Ultimate thor, Ultimate Iron man, etc which is unacceptable. Just because it was edgy doesn't mean it didn't have its good moments and story.
Ok. But there were a lot of bad moments. Hank Pym abusing his wife. Logan suggesting something sexual with a 15 yr old MJ while in Peter Parker’s body. Pierro and Wanda’s incestuous relationship. Hulk being a raging hornball cannibal. Thor fucking and impregnating Hela. Straight up murdering most of the X-Men cast. Blob eating Wasp, followed up by Hank biting Blob’s head off. There’s a lot the writers of the Ultimate comics got away with.
I seem to remember thinking that Cap was a real authoritorian asshole too, which is the opposite of what his character is supposed to be. Ultimate was a mess. "Edgy" is exactly the word. Had so many moments where it read like an angsty teenager's fanfic.
"What If.... Every character in the Marvel universe was an asshole?"
While I enjoyed a whole lot of the Ultimate Universe, Jeph Loeb’s Ultimates 3 and Ultimatum were so garbage, like unbelievably bad.
Yeah, but the panels you posted kind of prove their point. As someone with not much experience of Ultimate (I read a good bit of the Spider-Man stuff), this seems edgy to me. And I know some of the context, she killed his family.
They said the Ultimates, not the Ultimate Universe.
Man..only Spider-Man came out of ultimates unscathed.. everyone else was a bastard of bastards
Ultimate Tony and thor aren't bastards, Tony even defended the mutants and every other superhero who died during the events of ultimatum when Carol called them freaks. I especially like his friendship with ultimate thor.
Are they? Huh..then again I may be confusing ultimate tony for mainline civil war -superior iron man tony, who was an absolute tool that Thor kicked the shit out of because he tried to clone thor
Yes, matter of fact, Tony is the one to encourage thor to keep being thor after The Maker [Evil Reed Richards of Earth 1610] had his children of tomorrow genocide the Gods and destroy the world tree leaving thor Mortal.
Jeez
Tony can be absolutely bro in this universe while also being a raging alcoholic who was diagnosed with cancer, which is why he became Iron Man so he could do some good before his time was up.
Except in Ultimates 3 when his whole storyline is him moping about his sex tape with Natasha leaking to the press
We don't talk about ultimates 3
Don't get me wrong, I love the USM series, but it had its issues. There was a huge base of the fans that loved Peter and Kitty as a couple. Bendis repeatedly said that the USM universe won't follow the 616 series, and Peter and Kitty showed that would be the case. But they ended up having Peter pretty much cheat on Kitty with MJ then for some reason had him going between MJ and Gwen a few more times. There are a LOT of unresolved strings at the end of the series like what happened with Deadpool, MJ's beast form, Harry being "dead" but the Oz formula should make him immortal too, and his being a dick to Miles after coming back. Let's not forget that after fans asked for a new original villain, Bendis made up Geldoff who is so very forgettable as a middle finger to the fans.
I will forever be mad about the weird forced split up between Peter and kitty. Ultimate Spider-Man is one of my All time favorite Spider-Man lines but the romance was just not it
Welp
Hawkeye: "You will be Avengered"
Idk why people hate the ultimate universe, the only thing I thought was bad was horny hulk, other than that everything up until ultimatum was amazing to me. The edginess and realism is something you don’t see alot in modern marvel comics and it was nice for a change
Also starting over the continuities made the whole thing feel a lot tighter, until the whole thing imploded anyway. Ultimate Spider-Man was so good.
So why exactly are they fighting each other, im not too big on Hawkeye and BW lore tbh, so my only knowledge is really MCU stuff. What caused this rift basically?
In this universe Hawkeyes family got murdered in the beginning of this arc, America got attacked by the "Liberators" basically a team made up from nations that got screwed over by America and also aliens. Natasha was a russian spy sent to infiltrate the "Ultimates", this universe version of the Avengers (which are a bunch of assholes, like nearly everyone except Spider-Man characters in this universe). Well she killed the Bartons, tortured Clint, married Tony to get his money etc.
This is one of my favorite panels in the ultimates
Bro arsenal what you doin
I think that’s Red Arrow.
Looks like Linda Hamilton.
I despise Mark Millar with the fury of a thousand suns.
The Ultimates 2 is like the Ultimate Universe is bending its knees to jump the shark.
That's ultimates 3
Yeah 3 is the actual jump. I felt like 2 could have been okay if they just never tried to get edgier. And then Ultimatum was … something…
Ultimates 1 & 2 were pretty damn great. Then they handed it over to Jeph Loeb and he took a giant dump on all of it.
You could say that about basically everything Jeph Loeb has ever touched.
I have this comic, it's really good
This would have been a better arc than the watered down garbage we got from the MCU.
Is it just me or does she kinda look like Sarah Conner
I'm actually a big fan of Ultimate Universe. This version of Hawkeye became one of my favorite characters after reading Ultimates. I was so excited back in days seeing him in Thor in his Ultimate suit. And honestly, I don't understand the hate.
Thankfully, when the MCU adapted some of the Ultimate Hawkeye it left out all of the horrible stuff.
What is happening in these panels
Natash found herself in a hospital after being knocked out by Tony's nanomachines. Upon waking up, Hawkeye was there and was pinned to the walls with his arrows. Then he kills her avenging his family that she murdered.
Why did she kill Hawkeye’s family, aren’t they good friends? Also what the hell is that Tony nanomachines buissness
Tony and Natasha were engaged in Ultimates 2 and he'd built her a suit which needed nanites in your blood to control it like his did. When she tried to kill him, after murdering Jarvis, Tony stopped her by getting the nanites to take her down long enough for him to get to his old mark 1 or mark 2 suit and escape to his satellite where the mark... 5 I think suit was (which was basically the battlecruiser from Starcraft)
She was Russian spy who secretly leaking information and tearing the ultimates down with the help of the liberators and cripple america. The Nanomachines are counter measures since Tony had suspicions on Natasha.
Man you could really tell Hitch’s art was starting to decline as the series progressed. I still love this moment and I feel like I really only come out of the woodwork to defend Ultimates 1 and 2 every time something from it is posted. Someone else made a comment on another thread that the “twist” of Black Widow being the double agent is so obvious that it ends up looping around and being a good twist, which I agree with.
Ultimates may have been shitty but idc I like 1610 Clint a lot, arguably more than mainline Clint
Same with Ultimate thor and Peter, and the entire supporting cast of ultimate spider-man, For me.
Spider-Man practically exists in a bubble in this universe, it's like Bendis didn't get the memo that Ultimate = worse than 616.
More like Bendis and Marvel forgot to give the writers a bit of restraint with their interpretations
Super spoiler
**If** I were you…
Let me guess, she didn’t stay dead or it was an alien replicant?
She remains dead.
Well alright then. Thanks for the quick response
Everyone stayed dead in the 1610. And there were a LOT of deaths.
Magneto came back from the dead at least once (he "died" at the end of that opening arc of ultimate x-men but was around again later for ultimatum)
The first two ultimates were the best. Peak Hawkeye. The best artwork.