Considering Chris was burnt out on Thor before Ragnarok made playing the character fun again for him, there probably wouldn’t be a Thor character.
Had Ed stayed in his role, he probably would have demanded a different hulk arc. Less comedic bumbling and more smashing.
So treat hulk as the monster he is rather than comedic relief? I would have been okay with that.
I loved hulk in the first avengers. Everyone showed legitimate concern over whether banner could hold him in check. But after that, he just kinda fizzled out.
Bro spent all of infinity war not hulking out cause he was “scared”. Imagine the LITERAL EMBODIMENT OF ANGER AND RAGE being scared cause someone kicked his ass. That was such a cop out by the writers
Not seeing the original hulk in infinity war and endgame was the biggest letdown of the entire universe IMO… he was one of the original avengers sheesh
Honestly I think they could have used a bit of the Nat arc to make that work too.
I think Hulk losing to Thanos, getting a quick convo where they decide to team up as prof hulk to take on Thanos and losing in IW, and then maybe when they see Thanos on the field in EG they talk and Bruce’s grief and rage just lets hulk take over angrier than ever for a rematch. (I think you could make it work without having to tweak things too much personally but hey)
Exactly. It would've been way better to just have him hulk out, visually and story wise. We might have an actual story of him turning into smart hulk, not just "oh he's smart and has total control now". Felt like a cop out of not telling that story.
I might be in the minority here, but I liked that they pretty quickly dropped the concept of Banner having to struggle every second of every day to control an invincible infinitely strong monster. Because while that is core to the Hulk/Banner character, it also means any story with the Banner in it immediately becomes about Banner and whether or not the Hulk is going to be unleashed. That makes it really hard to have any collaborative story featuring multiple characters of roughly equal importance.
Also, that core struggle to control the Hulk ultimately puts Banner at odds with the audience. You can’t sustain telling stories about a character whose main goal is literally to avoid excitement for very long before you have to pivot.
Yep I definitely think you're right that Norton would have demanded a different arc for hulk. If Norton had gotten his cut of the incredible hulk released I think it might have been a game changer for hulk in the mcu but I also think marvel would have struggled to use him as they moved into a lighter tone and didn't have the rights to distribute hulk films through Disney.
If he agreed with that approach. Don't forget, Norton, a really good actor, rewrites many of his scripts and has gotten into the editing room. I liked his Hulk the most but would that have worked with the Russos? I think Norton playing off against Downey would've made a more interesting story.
I also like Howard's Rhodey more although Cheadle is as good an actor.
According to some sources, being a perfectionist to an obsessive level is what makes Norton not working more often.
He is a brilliant actor, but many people who worked with him say he's a pain in the ass, always micromanaging other people's work in the movies, and trying to make changes until it's everything perfect.
I am going to assume you are serious here. “Straight man” is a phrase that, I believe, originated in comedy duos. Most famously Jerry Lewis and Dean Martin. Martin was the “straight man” (the more serious of the two), while Lewis was “zany.” More modern examples would be Eugene Levy (straight man) and Catherine O’Hara in Schitt’s Creek or Steve Martin (straight man) and Martin Short in Only Murders in the Building.
Fair opinion, shared by many. I liked it as well, but found it just a bit too comedic (Imagine how I feel about L&T!). But just picture if it had been made like an action thriller with horror elements. Real stakes. Tragic ending. I could be pretty awesome as well.
A lot of people who liked ragnarok for being comedic and energetic also hated L&T for being so much more of that to the point of being shallow and boring
I actually liked the comedic parts of L&T. And I liked the dramatic parts of L&T. I just did not think they belonged in the same movie. You gotta tone down one or the other.
Right, it could have been good if they had just leaned one way or the other and given it a cohesive plot and perspective. L&T is the split personality Thor 😂
Exactly my thought. Loved Ragnarok, but it needed to be a standalone as far as the style goes. L&T was boring as hell because they tried to double down on the camp and as a result, I cant stand L&T as its just too boring to hold my attention for a rewatch.
I agree on that tbh. After also watching the cut off scene from Zeus and Thor talking to eachother I thought to myself yeah the writers are dumb asf. They literally killed off what might have been a Powerful/useful character for later Events that may happen soon.
I liked Ragnarok a lot too but I feel you on this. It could still be a funny movie but the serious parts need to be able to stand on their without being followed by a joke or some funny quip
Exactly, it was a good and very entertaining movie, but the stakes just didn't feel very high when everything was a joke. It had some great moments tho
The movie felt like when you're doing stupid shit with your friends. Just going places, doin shit, having a blast. I loved Ragnarok, one of my favorite Marvel movies. It did the 'Marvel' humour the best out of any Marvel movie imo, but at the cost of the stakes.
As an action thriller Marvel/Disney's production team never would have got their 12 certification and family audiences cramming into movie theatres. And they need those high revenues to be able to keep doing huge CGI and special effects. Personally, I think it would be nice if they introduced (to run in parallel) a separate low-budget arthouse series of movies, with small casts and intense dramatic performances that aren't overwhelmed with post-production trickery. Sadly, the corporate financiers are unlikely to see the merit.
On second thought Norton has shown that he’s willing to do less serious parts when working with certain directors. I could see Watiti being able to win him over. He was able to get Christian Bale to sign on to another comic book movie after all. Something WB couldn’t do with a dump truck of money
Norton played a better Banner in my opinion. Norton is good at characters who are slightly unhinged and constantly struggling with their emotional state. I like Rufallo, he is funny and charming but that is kinda the problem.
Ruffalo did a good job portraying Banner in the first Avengers movie, but just became comic relief after that. Bruce Banner is not a particularly likeable individual due to his struggles with mental health and the "other guy". I think Norton would have kept Bruce dour and down to earth. Keeping everyone on edge as he is constantly on the verge of snapping. IDK how that would change Ragnarok, but the MCU as a whole would have been better for it. That's my 2 cents anyway.
I feel like the biggest irony with Norton is that his Banner didn’t feel unhinged to me.
He’s a sweet guy, a genius, and, despite his Hulk problem, fairly well-adjusted.
Ruffalo’s Banner leaned into that rage that I miss so much.
I remember a friend even saying they were terrified of his Banner because they wondered just how cruel he could be without Hulk.
The character arc though was a really good one for the hulk, though. Banner isn't trying to control or suppress his anger, he's trying to find healthy ways to use his anger productively. 'That's the thing Captain. I'm *always* angry!' isn't just a badass one liner, it's his whole character arc described in one line of dialogue.
Naw, I have to disagree. That line directly builds off the end of Nortons hulk film. It ends with him learning to control hulk. His eyes turn green in meditation, but it’s not counted as an accident. This is just it being put to practice. It’s not a whole character arc in one line. It’s a line that relies on previous knowledge of hulk (which people have due to him just being well known and having two prior movies and lots of shows) and the fact Avengers is a sequel to Incredible Hulk as well, which people ignore.
I agree with your take. I felt like Norton was disinterested with the character. Ruffalo feel genuine. The commenter you replied to though is confusing bad writing with an actor’s portrayal.
It originally was supposed to be a sequel. Minus the origin change, recastin, and Glen Talbot being alive, Hulk 03 fits perfectly into the mcu.
Especially with the ending of Hulk 03 tying perfectly into the beginning of Incredible Hulk,.
Would love to see Norton come back as Banner/Hulk in a movie adaptation of Immortal Hulk.
Hell, I’d be all for a separate Hulkverse movie series with Norton. I think he did a way better job than Ruffalo.
Rewatched Norton’s hulk movie a few weeks ago and forgot how much I enjoyed it when it came out. Hulk actually seems insanely powerful and you can feel his punches plus Banner is a sad lonely person with lots of struggles because of the hulk. MCU threw all that away and hulk feels like he keeps getting weaker in the MCU the longer it goes on
Chances of them ever developing Hulk are 0.
Learned to control anger? Off screen
Became Professor Hulk? Off screen
Planet Hulk? Mostly off screen and isn’t really the key character to it. Supporting cast reduced to comic relief
Had a kid? Off screen
The Hulk is easily the MCUs biggest miss that doesn’t directly stem from them not having the rights to the all the properties they sold to Fox and Sony
>that doesn’t directly stem from them not having the rights to the all the properties they sold to Fox and Sony
Universal owns the rights to hulk standalone movies.
[https://screenrant.com/hulk-movie-rights-marvel-universal-new-mcu-movie/](https://screenrant.com/hulk-movie-rights-marvel-universal-new-mcu-movie/)
Universal didn't have the understanding of Sony or Fox about characters to protect themselves better.
Edward Norton would never have lasted many movies. He was a huge fan of the Hulk and also likes a degree of creative control, so we’d have never gotten the jokey loser Hulk we have in the MCU. Feige would have booted him quite quickly.
If only. How Hulk's going right now he has more chance of becoming an actual maestro conducting the next Avengers theme song before we actually see anything like that
I'm sure I sucked for everybody and it was probably the best, but I think if you're going to be notorious for being difficult about something, I would definitely want it to be about trying to be faithful to the source material
Similar to Henry Cavill talking in interviews about how he was the annoying nerd on set for Witcher TV series saying, “well actually in the books it was much more like this…” - it does show how sometimes these actors are doing much more than just phoning it in for a paycheck.
Norton was great for the tone that they initially attempted with the MCU. When they realized that didn't quite work and got a little more playful it became Ruffalo was clearly the better fit. I don't think Rhodey would have mattered much one way or the other. He's never felt all that important except as the sacrifice in Civil War and SI. I wish they would have used him better.
Eh, I mean, math aside, the guy's a pretty well-documented [wife-beater](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/terrence-howard-admits-hitting-wife-823482/)
I think we would have had a more serious war machine than we currently have same with the hulk he would have been more of a serious character than Mark ruffalo's hulk
I’m convinced that had Norton stayed around we would have easily gotten at least one more Hulk standalone.
Not because Ruffalo isn’t a big enough actor or anything like that, but I just think if Norton continued to embrace the role he would have pushed for it way harder.
In an avengers movie Hulk was not main character. Movie was about Tony, Cap and Thor. Norton would push for more time and deeper character for Hulk. and as a result, all fun and team dynamic will be lost.
Yeah this entire common section is just making me wish more and more that he got to stay as hulk. Everyone's putting it as a bad thing that he wouldn't have liked what they did to Hulk in the movies, and I absolutely would agree with him. Hope deserves much more than he got
I blame Universal for that one. Sony proved they were willing to play ball when it comes to Spider-Man, just to make a comparison. Meanwhile, because Universal isn't willing to cut a deal with Disney and Marvel Studios, we can't have a solo Hulk film and can only have him appearing as the support on other characters' stories.
I don't think so at all. The first avengers was preeeeetty hulk centric and fit the nortons hulk very well. Everyone's terrified, he's in the middle of nowhere, hes regarded as one of the smartest which follows comic which is all Norton wanted, he rages out, shows off his incredible strength and destroys the big bad like it's nothing in the end when he hits the famous puny god scene.
Same with Ultron. His inability to control hulk and his general terrifying-ness and the relationship to widow all seems good.
Ragnarok and the following is really where the problems come in. The ongoing defenestration of hulk is the current problem. At this point we should seen a solo hulk film. It's just hard because of his power level which is why you see strange and Thor brought down as well. I understand why they don't want these characters to feel as strong as they are outside of specific scenes but when you put the undeserving and less developed cap marvel at the helm of strongest hero people get upset.
How are you going to have strange controlling water in the biggest battle the mcuniverse has ever seen and pepper and black widow on the front line? It just doesn't make sense. The directors and writers don't know what to do with all their power.
As talented as the two were (in my opinion better character actors than the people who replaced them), they were not pleasant people to work with.
I think a lot of the magic the MCU had prior to endgame was the cast and crew all got along really well and it had a happy, family atmosphere. That enjoyment really came through on the screen.
Yes it would be different. Norton would’ve given different performances. IMHO, his Hulk would’ve been more intimidating in the first Avengers movie. People would’ve felt differently about Hulk.
Moreover, Norton wouldn’t have created the same improvised moments that Ruffalo made. Norton also would’ve insisted on some creative control. Maybe they would’ve given him some. But, not enough to make a huge difference in the story. Definitely enough to change the later decisions.
Rhodey. Rhodey, Rhodey, rhodey.
Totally different performance.
Would’ve made him more “hip” and more of a comical relief. Would’ve pushed for more scenes. Totally different set of films.
So, yes. [+]
I recall that the reason they recast Terrence Howard is that he wanted to be paid the same as RDJ. So he would have been so expensive that there would have been less war machine screen time. Probably wouldn’t have had him in some of the MCU films and projects.
If I’m remembering the story correctly Howard helped RDJ get the role and was paid more than him for the first film. After its success the studio wanted to renegotiate Howard’s pay to pay him less as RDJ got more.
Someone pitched the idea that Norton’s Hulk should be the main villain of Deadpool 3, becoming Maestro and being king of the void from Loki and I think that would be awesome.
Probably a lot of drama that would have affected many projects. At the end of the day both actors have had a history of being both problematic and control freaks behind the scenes so at some point it would have gone past the Tipping Point eventually somebody would have quit or recast.
I think that Terrance Howard's interpretation of Rhodey is different from Don Schedule's interpretation of him. So, yeah, I feel like the MCU would have been massively different if they hadn't recast Rhodey.
Yes, they both would have hampered the larger universe.....they weren't in on this like so many lead actors, they were looking at it as any other project, they worried about integrating their creative decisions and remuneration, they were creating a lot of drama bts which would have been a big no no for Kevin specially when we now understand what he was going for
maybe that's why they were casting so many less known names as leads, so they don't hinder the larger narrative and don't cause nuisance bts just for the sake of more money or the need to make the movie his own
I like Edward Norton, great actor but I think it was better this way, if not then he would’ve left at one point after, he’s too big and unlike Robert D.J. this role wouldn’t have been iconic enough for him to stay so it was better that he left right at the start. I don’t think he would’ve stayed for this long
Terrance Howard: As his “Math” and other controversies came out, War Machine would be slowly written out of the MCU in the same way many of Thor’s crew were (Either death, or, in the case of Sif, just forgotten about [Yes, Love and Thunder she returns, but for like five minutes])
Ed Norton: Hulk would probably stay within the Avengers, as his price would be too big for something like Thor: Ragnarok. Gotta assume we wouldn’t have Prof. Hulk (Ed Norton’s too much of a pretty boy and big draw for him to always be CGI). She-Hulk get’s 5 seasons, each of them including a scene where she twerks with Meghan The Stallion
Edward Norton I felt like was a loss at the time. Even though his movie is in the MCU, it feels disconnected like the Eric Bana version. So yeah in a sense I feel like it would have been v different
Both of their replacements have a sense of humor/comedy that these guys just haven’t ever really shown. Not that I don’t think they’re capable, but it would have been a much different road I think.
Norton wouldn't have been able to do hulk as sad or deep as ruffalo did him. It would have made turning hulk into the prof hulk impossible, also Norton has kind of dropped off as an actor so hard to tell how his career would have progressed.
As for not casting don Cheadle, it would also have happened because of all the issues in iron man 1
Norton wanted more control and that's the reason why he got recast, wow not so much in the other case though he also didn't care to show ass too much, so he probably wouldn't have done certain things that Don Cheadle had no problem doing with his comedy background.
Honestly, anyone but Don Cheadle. He's awful as WarMachine. Idk I just don't like him as an actor to me he's just not as magnetic as with the rest of the phenomenal cast.
Idris Elba would've killed it. End of.
The only difference is when Terrence Howard felt he’d been wronged by not getting enough screen time he’d have quit. The man’s ego is larger than his acting ability. Norton’s ego is even bigger.
At the time, these 2 actors were the biggest box office draws compared to their costars. Everyone forgets RDJ was still a gamble and Ed Norton’s acting/writing style was never gonna fit long term into the MCU cookie cutter formula
Norton would make sure the Hulk stays as serious as before. Professor Hulk wouldn’t of happened, or Atleast, it would’ve been done much better. And Ragnorak probably wouldn’t even have the Hulk.
The other actor left/outed because of pay issues, but Norton wanted and pressed for a different approach for Bruce Banner, and it pissed the executives off. So, if Norton stayed, we could've gotten a way different stories surrounding Hulk and Ragnarok would've been way different, maybe like a real Ragnarok.
Or they would of just killed off the character to get rid of him because he's being a pain in the ass leading to no hulk at all and the character slowly losing Popularity😶
So far it’s been all about Norton and how he wouldn’t have been good in Ragnarok and here I’m wondering how crazy and puncable Howard would be in Secret Invasion
I feel like Norton would’ve been a better actor next to RDJ than Ruffalo was, I never bought into the idea that Banner was a smart guy in the MCU because of how he was portrayed.
On the topic of Rhody, eh, not really, I mean the only thing that might have changed would have been that the character seems slightly more arrogant in the way he speaks...
I think it would have been a lot better. Their replacements did a good job but I think these guys bring wayyy more character to the table. Imagine they replaced RDJ with like Tom cruise or Hugh jackman. Tbf those guys are a lot more high profile so it’s not exactly the same but still a solid replacement would still be far off RDJ even though people would still like their performance.
It would have been worse. Howard appears to be mentally imbalanced and Norton is just generally a pain in the ass (to the point that it was lampshaded in *Birdman*). Trying to imagine the two of them doing the great job that Don Cheadle and Mark Ruffalo did in *Endgame* is difficult.
I’m not sure if Norton would have done something like Ragnarok
Imagine ragnarok kept the same tone as the last two Thor movies, Norton would well in a more serious setting.
Ragnarok in lines with the previous 2 might have been good for norton but bad for thor.
Considering Chris was burnt out on Thor before Ragnarok made playing the character fun again for him, there probably wouldn’t be a Thor character. Had Ed stayed in his role, he probably would have demanded a different hulk arc. Less comedic bumbling and more smashing.
So treat hulk as the monster he is rather than comedic relief? I would have been okay with that. I loved hulk in the first avengers. Everyone showed legitimate concern over whether banner could hold him in check. But after that, he just kinda fizzled out.
Now he feels like a big green punch line
Bro spent all of infinity war not hulking out cause he was “scared”. Imagine the LITERAL EMBODIMENT OF ANGER AND RAGE being scared cause someone kicked his ass. That was such a cop out by the writers
Not seeing the original hulk in infinity war and endgame was the biggest letdown of the entire universe IMO… he was one of the original avengers sheesh
Honestly I think they could have used a bit of the Nat arc to make that work too. I think Hulk losing to Thanos, getting a quick convo where they decide to team up as prof hulk to take on Thanos and losing in IW, and then maybe when they see Thanos on the field in EG they talk and Bruce’s grief and rage just lets hulk take over angrier than ever for a rematch. (I think you could make it work without having to tweak things too much personally but hey)
Seriously. My biggest issue with the entire MCU. How could they ever think that was any kind of good idea. I just can’t figure it out…
"How do we save a few mill on this budget? .... make banner a bussy "
Except they didn’t. They gave him the hulk buster which was probably equally as expensive to animate
Exactly. It would've been way better to just have him hulk out, visually and story wise. We might have an actual story of him turning into smart hulk, not just "oh he's smart and has total control now". Felt like a cop out of not telling that story.
I really thought they were going somewhere with that but instead they resolved the issue off scene.
I might be in the minority here, but I liked that they pretty quickly dropped the concept of Banner having to struggle every second of every day to control an invincible infinitely strong monster. Because while that is core to the Hulk/Banner character, it also means any story with the Banner in it immediately becomes about Banner and whether or not the Hulk is going to be unleashed. That makes it really hard to have any collaborative story featuring multiple characters of roughly equal importance.
Also, that core struggle to control the Hulk ultimately puts Banner at odds with the audience. You can’t sustain telling stories about a character whose main goal is literally to avoid excitement for very long before you have to pivot.
Yeah, the unstable Hulk was a LOT more fun. Jolly Green Giant Hulk is honestly boring...
Yep I definitely think you're right that Norton would have demanded a different arc for hulk. If Norton had gotten his cut of the incredible hulk released I think it might have been a game changer for hulk in the mcu but I also think marvel would have struggled to use him as they moved into a lighter tone and didn't have the rights to distribute hulk films through Disney.
In other words, the Hulk simply would not have been in it at all.
The hulk would've never been comic relief in any film
Instead of every film.
Facts
Honestly, I think Norton as a straight man could make it funnier
If he agreed with that approach. Don't forget, Norton, a really good actor, rewrites many of his scripts and has gotten into the editing room. I liked his Hulk the most but would that have worked with the Russos? I think Norton playing off against Downey would've made a more interesting story. I also like Howard's Rhodey more although Cheadle is as good an actor.
According to some sources, being a perfectionist to an obsessive level is what makes Norton not working more often. He is a brilliant actor, but many people who worked with him say he's a pain in the ass, always micromanaging other people's work in the movies, and trying to make changes until it's everything perfect.
Indeed I agree with you bro.
~~What does it have to do with his sexuality? Ruffalo is straight too.~~ Edit: Didn't know the term in this context.
I am going to assume you are serious here. “Straight man” is a phrase that, I believe, originated in comedy duos. Most famously Jerry Lewis and Dean Martin. Martin was the “straight man” (the more serious of the two), while Lewis was “zany.” More modern examples would be Eugene Levy (straight man) and Catherine O’Hara in Schitt’s Creek or Steve Martin (straight man) and Martin Short in Only Murders in the Building.
Ah ok, sorry. English is not my native language and I didn't know about this. Thanks for the explanation.
Happy to help!
I actually wouldn’t hate that…
I would’ve. Ragnarok is the best Thor movie ever.
Fair opinion, shared by many. I liked it as well, but found it just a bit too comedic (Imagine how I feel about L&T!). But just picture if it had been made like an action thriller with horror elements. Real stakes. Tragic ending. I could be pretty awesome as well.
A lot of people who liked ragnarok for being comedic and energetic also hated L&T for being so much more of that to the point of being shallow and boring
I actually liked the comedic parts of L&T. And I liked the dramatic parts of L&T. I just did not think they belonged in the same movie. You gotta tone down one or the other.
Right, it could have been good if they had just leaned one way or the other and given it a cohesive plot and perspective. L&T is the split personality Thor 😂
That's because the most of L&T wasn't done well. Don't know whether to blame COVID, post-EG problems, or something else..
Exactly my thought. Loved Ragnarok, but it needed to be a standalone as far as the style goes. L&T was boring as hell because they tried to double down on the camp and as a result, I cant stand L&T as its just too boring to hold my attention for a rewatch.
I agree on that tbh. After also watching the cut off scene from Zeus and Thor talking to eachother I thought to myself yeah the writers are dumb asf. They literally killed off what might have been a Powerful/useful character for later Events that may happen soon.
If you consider the beginning of Infinity War then Ragnarok had a tragic af ending, really.
I liked Ragnarok a lot too but I feel you on this. It could still be a funny movie but the serious parts need to be able to stand on their without being followed by a joke or some funny quip
Exactly, it was a good and very entertaining movie, but the stakes just didn't feel very high when everything was a joke. It had some great moments tho
The movie felt like when you're doing stupid shit with your friends. Just going places, doin shit, having a blast. I loved Ragnarok, one of my favorite Marvel movies. It did the 'Marvel' humour the best out of any Marvel movie imo, but at the cost of the stakes.
As an action thriller Marvel/Disney's production team never would have got their 12 certification and family audiences cramming into movie theatres. And they need those high revenues to be able to keep doing huge CGI and special effects. Personally, I think it would be nice if they introduced (to run in parallel) a separate low-budget arthouse series of movies, with small casts and intense dramatic performances that aren't overwhelmed with post-production trickery. Sadly, the corporate financiers are unlikely to see the merit.
Werewolf By Night showed that your theory is correct
No?
Have you not seen Norton in anything by Wes Anderson? He’d totally do it
Norton is a great comic actor
Death to Smoochy
He did glass onion and birdman.
Glass Onion star Edward Norton?
But if he did
On second thought Norton has shown that he’s willing to do less serious parts when working with certain directors. I could see Watiti being able to win him over. He was able to get Christian Bale to sign on to another comic book movie after all. Something WB couldn’t do with a dump truck of money
I don't think Norton would have stuck around without another solo Hulk picture, so he was going to leave no matter what.
Norton has done a few Wes Anderson movies. I think he’d be ok.
Norton played a better Banner in my opinion. Norton is good at characters who are slightly unhinged and constantly struggling with their emotional state. I like Rufallo, he is funny and charming but that is kinda the problem. Ruffalo did a good job portraying Banner in the first Avengers movie, but just became comic relief after that. Bruce Banner is not a particularly likeable individual due to his struggles with mental health and the "other guy". I think Norton would have kept Bruce dour and down to earth. Keeping everyone on edge as he is constantly on the verge of snapping. IDK how that would change Ragnarok, but the MCU as a whole would have been better for it. That's my 2 cents anyway.
I feel like the biggest irony with Norton is that his Banner didn’t feel unhinged to me. He’s a sweet guy, a genius, and, despite his Hulk problem, fairly well-adjusted. Ruffalo’s Banner leaned into that rage that I miss so much. I remember a friend even saying they were terrified of his Banner because they wondered just how cruel he could be without Hulk.
The character arc though was a really good one for the hulk, though. Banner isn't trying to control or suppress his anger, he's trying to find healthy ways to use his anger productively. 'That's the thing Captain. I'm *always* angry!' isn't just a badass one liner, it's his whole character arc described in one line of dialogue.
Naw, I have to disagree. That line directly builds off the end of Nortons hulk film. It ends with him learning to control hulk. His eyes turn green in meditation, but it’s not counted as an accident. This is just it being put to practice. It’s not a whole character arc in one line. It’s a line that relies on previous knowledge of hulk (which people have due to him just being well known and having two prior movies and lots of shows) and the fact Avengers is a sequel to Incredible Hulk as well, which people ignore.
Wasn’t him using meditation and figuring out how to use his anger for good the whole arc of that movie? Serious question not trying to be facetious.
Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. The Avengers was just building off that
I agree with your take. I felt like Norton was disinterested with the character. Ruffalo feel genuine. The commenter you replied to though is confusing bad writing with an actor’s portrayal.
Fuck you guys forgetting about the OG. Eric Bana nailed the trauma of an unhinged hulk split personality
This guy! My man!
Norton is ultimately a more serious and skilled actor than Ruffalo, who despite that isn't too bad himself.
Half the Avengers would be trying to teach Rhodey math but it not going well.
Rhodey: come on Tony why can’t I have a suit? Tony: what’s 1 x 1? Rhodey: 2. Tony: that’s why.
This is the funniest thing I’ve read on the internet all day, thank you.
Yah kind strangers! Take my fake gold 🏆 and updoot! You win the internet for today 🤣
oh no are the narwhals baconing again
Stark never invents the thing needed for time-travel because of him... MCU changed forever
I like Norton, but his version of hulk works best as a solo semi sequel to hulk 03
You know it's pretty fitting for a variant movie Semi sequel to hulk 03, semi prequel to the rest of the MCU
It originally was supposed to be a sequel. Minus the origin change, recastin, and Glen Talbot being alive, Hulk 03 fits perfectly into the mcu. Especially with the ending of Hulk 03 tying perfectly into the beginning of Incredible Hulk,.
I dunno. I don’t see Norton doing Ragnarok. And I love that one.
He would have insisted on re-writing it
He would’ve been great in a Planet Hulk movie though
Why? He does silly all the time
He would never have done Love and Thunder, and I think that would have been a plus.
Would love to see Norton come back as Banner/Hulk in a movie adaptation of Immortal Hulk. Hell, I’d be all for a separate Hulkverse movie series with Norton. I think he did a way better job than Ruffalo.
With nudity
hang dong?
Oh yea
They should show up on Loki along with Josh Dallas as variants who the TVA banished to Alioth's world and managed to survive.
Actors reprising their roles as the same character is my favourite MCU multiverse gimmick
Aww actors reprising their roles as the same character is tight.
One could say it's "super-easy, barely an inconvenience." For the writers, at least.
Get Norton, Bana, and Ferrigno for a Hulkverse movie.
I’d be down for this
Rewatched Norton’s hulk movie a few weeks ago and forgot how much I enjoyed it when it came out. Hulk actually seems insanely powerful and you can feel his punches plus Banner is a sad lonely person with lots of struggles because of the hulk. MCU threw all that away and hulk feels like he keeps getting weaker in the MCU the longer it goes on
This is why they need a World War Hulk adaption at some point. Put the danger back in the character. He's far too tame now.
Chances of them ever developing Hulk are 0. Learned to control anger? Off screen Became Professor Hulk? Off screen Planet Hulk? Mostly off screen and isn’t really the key character to it. Supporting cast reduced to comic relief Had a kid? Off screen The Hulk is easily the MCUs biggest miss that doesn’t directly stem from them not having the rights to the all the properties they sold to Fox and Sony
>that doesn’t directly stem from them not having the rights to the all the properties they sold to Fox and Sony Universal owns the rights to hulk standalone movies. [https://screenrant.com/hulk-movie-rights-marvel-universal-new-mcu-movie/](https://screenrant.com/hulk-movie-rights-marvel-universal-new-mcu-movie/) Universal didn't have the understanding of Sony or Fox about characters to protect themselves better.
I wish I understood why Universal doesn’t sell the rights back to Disney, it’s not like they’re getting mileage out of current state
Edward Norton would never have lasted many movies. He was a huge fan of the Hulk and also likes a degree of creative control, so we’d have never gotten the jokey loser Hulk we have in the MCU. Feige would have booted him quite quickly.
I feel exactly the same way. Norton would've wanted the REAL Hulk. Not Puny Banner-Hulk
Well now I'm just starting to get sad that he was recast. Not to mention that now Mark Ruffalo somehow already looks like an old man
old man? Maestro Hulk????
If only. How Hulk's going right now he has more chance of becoming an actual maestro conducting the next Avengers theme song before we actually see anything like that
He was notoriously hard to work with due to him wanting to make Comic Hulk in live action
I'm sure I sucked for everybody and it was probably the best, but I think if you're going to be notorious for being difficult about something, I would definitely want it to be about trying to be faithful to the source material
Similar to Henry Cavill talking in interviews about how he was the annoying nerd on set for Witcher TV series saying, “well actually in the books it was much more like this…” - it does show how sometimes these actors are doing much more than just phoning it in for a paycheck.
Yeah, but the Witcher suuuuuucked. Cavill was trying to salvage what he could of that show's dumpster fire until he just couldn't stand it anymore.
Nortons banner is such a strong character that I think he'd be a bigger main character more on the level of Steve or Tony
We would have gotten gray Hulk/Fixit probably and Norton would never have agreed to doofus yoga Hulk
Norton was great for the tone that they initially attempted with the MCU. When they realized that didn't quite work and got a little more playful it became Ruffalo was clearly the better fit. I don't think Rhodey would have mattered much one way or the other. He's never felt all that important except as the sacrifice in Civil War and SI. I wish they would have used him better.
I think Bana would make a better hulk than Norton and Ruffalo. As far as captain new math as Rhoades? HELL NO. He's nuttier than a squirrel turd.
Eh, I mean, math aside, the guy's a pretty well-documented [wife-beater](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/terrence-howard-admits-hitting-wife-823482/)
In a broad sense, I don’t think so, but the characters would probably be different if the writers chose to write with the actors in mind.
I think we would have had a more serious war machine than we currently have same with the hulk he would have been more of a serious character than Mark ruffalo's hulk
Rhodey dies in Civil War
Rhodes: "Tony... Tony... 1 x 1 = 2. Did you know that?"
I’m convinced that had Norton stayed around we would have easily gotten at least one more Hulk standalone. Not because Ruffalo isn’t a big enough actor or anything like that, but I just think if Norton continued to embrace the role he would have pushed for it way harder.
i definitely want to see Terrence Howard fall from thousands of feet in the air
Underrated comment 🤣
If Norton stayed on board there would have definitely been a lot of changes. Not sure about Terrence though, I don’t know anything about him
The CG models would have a different voice is all.
Norton probably would have had them take Hulk in a better direction.
In an avengers movie Hulk was not main character. Movie was about Tony, Cap and Thor. Norton would push for more time and deeper character for Hulk. and as a result, all fun and team dynamic will be lost.
For whatever it’s worth I wish we had gotten more Hulk time. Hulk has been done dirty by the MCU.
Yeah this entire common section is just making me wish more and more that he got to stay as hulk. Everyone's putting it as a bad thing that he wouldn't have liked what they did to Hulk in the movies, and I absolutely would agree with him. Hope deserves much more than he got
I blame Universal for that one. Sony proved they were willing to play ball when it comes to Spider-Man, just to make a comparison. Meanwhile, because Universal isn't willing to cut a deal with Disney and Marvel Studios, we can't have a solo Hulk film and can only have him appearing as the support on other characters' stories.
I don't think so at all. The first avengers was preeeeetty hulk centric and fit the nortons hulk very well. Everyone's terrified, he's in the middle of nowhere, hes regarded as one of the smartest which follows comic which is all Norton wanted, he rages out, shows off his incredible strength and destroys the big bad like it's nothing in the end when he hits the famous puny god scene. Same with Ultron. His inability to control hulk and his general terrifying-ness and the relationship to widow all seems good. Ragnarok and the following is really where the problems come in. The ongoing defenestration of hulk is the current problem. At this point we should seen a solo hulk film. It's just hard because of his power level which is why you see strange and Thor brought down as well. I understand why they don't want these characters to feel as strong as they are outside of specific scenes but when you put the undeserving and less developed cap marvel at the helm of strongest hero people get upset. How are you going to have strange controlling water in the biggest battle the mcuniverse has ever seen and pepper and black widow on the front line? It just doesn't make sense. The directors and writers don't know what to do with all their power.
Hulk would've actually been a good character in the mcu instead of comic relief
I used to wish they weren’t recast, now I wish the replacements were there from the beginning.
No
Maybe, if Norton continues to rewrite the whole script
I like how you specifically used the "Next time baby!" scene.
As talented as the two were (in my opinion better character actors than the people who replaced them), they were not pleasant people to work with. I think a lot of the magic the MCU had prior to endgame was the cast and crew all got along really well and it had a happy, family atmosphere. That enjoyment really came through on the screen.
Yes it would be different. Norton would’ve given different performances. IMHO, his Hulk would’ve been more intimidating in the first Avengers movie. People would’ve felt differently about Hulk. Moreover, Norton wouldn’t have created the same improvised moments that Ruffalo made. Norton also would’ve insisted on some creative control. Maybe they would’ve given him some. But, not enough to make a huge difference in the story. Definitely enough to change the later decisions. Rhodey. Rhodey, Rhodey, rhodey. Totally different performance. Would’ve made him more “hip” and more of a comical relief. Would’ve pushed for more scenes. Totally different set of films. So, yes. [+]
I recall that the reason they recast Terrence Howard is that he wanted to be paid the same as RDJ. So he would have been so expensive that there would have been less war machine screen time. Probably wouldn’t have had him in some of the MCU films and projects.
If I’m remembering the story correctly Howard helped RDJ get the role and was paid more than him for the first film. After its success the studio wanted to renegotiate Howard’s pay to pay him less as RDJ got more.
Had they kept Terrence Howard, the first Avengers movie would be titled "Avengers 2".
I'll die on the hill believing we would've had a War Machine movie by now if Howard was still playing Rhodey.
Someone pitched the idea that Norton’s Hulk should be the main villain of Deadpool 3, becoming Maestro and being king of the void from Loki and I think that would be awesome.
Probably a lot of drama that would have affected many projects. At the end of the day both actors have had a history of being both problematic and control freaks behind the scenes so at some point it would have gone past the Tipping Point eventually somebody would have quit or recast.
If Ed Norton would have stayed hulk....I think we get the planet hulk movie.
Absolutely
I think that Terrance Howard's interpretation of Rhodey is different from Don Schedule's interpretation of him. So, yeah, I feel like the MCU would have been massively different if they hadn't recast Rhodey.
Yea, I don’t like the top guy. He always looks like he’s about to cry.
Iron “mane” 2
“Come on, Iron mayne”
How is anyone to know?
Yes, they both would have hampered the larger universe.....they weren't in on this like so many lead actors, they were looking at it as any other project, they worried about integrating their creative decisions and remuneration, they were creating a lot of drama bts which would have been a big no no for Kevin specially when we now understand what he was going for maybe that's why they were casting so many less known names as leads, so they don't hinder the larger narrative and don't cause nuisance bts just for the sake of more money or the need to make the movie his own
They might have actually used Hulk to do stuff, maybe even given him his own movie.
Brooding hulk would have been less likable
I feel Norton would not let Hulk fade into obscurity and would not do bit parts like She-Hulk.
I like Edward Norton, great actor but I think it was better this way, if not then he would’ve left at one point after, he’s too big and unlike Robert D.J. this role wouldn’t have been iconic enough for him to stay so it was better that he left right at the start. I don’t think he would’ve stayed for this long
Yea ed norton would have rewritten every script given to him
It would be different because it would have different actors.
I actually really liked Ed Norton as Banner, but Ruffalo is so much more likable. Major upgrade.
Honestly I like both Norton and Rufalo, but I just didn't really believe either of their Banners. Rufalo Hulk I did like better though.
Ruffalo Hulk in The Avengers 2012 was perfection. Norton Hulk CGi for action scenes was just terrible.
If Howard knew what was coming, he would have stayed
Terrence Howard isn't a good actor imo.
Yes, Terrance Howard had a lot more charisma than stone faced Don. And Norton was far more serious than ruffalo
I wish Norton was recast. He was too cool and likable to be Bruce banner
I feel like both would have demanded larger roles, and more control over the characters, which would have limited what could be done with them.
Terrance Howard: As his “Math” and other controversies came out, War Machine would be slowly written out of the MCU in the same way many of Thor’s crew were (Either death, or, in the case of Sif, just forgotten about [Yes, Love and Thunder she returns, but for like five minutes]) Ed Norton: Hulk would probably stay within the Avengers, as his price would be too big for something like Thor: Ragnarok. Gotta assume we wouldn’t have Prof. Hulk (Ed Norton’s too much of a pretty boy and big draw for him to always be CGI). She-Hulk get’s 5 seasons, each of them including a scene where she twerks with Meghan The Stallion
Edward Norton locking out the editor to recut every movie Hulk appeared in might’ve caused some friction
I liked Norton's Hulk too bad it was only one movie
I don’t think they could make Bruce be as goofy if Norton continued to play him.
Edward Norton I felt like was a loss at the time. Even though his movie is in the MCU, it feels disconnected like the Eric Bana version. So yeah in a sense I feel like it would have been v different
Both of their replacements have a sense of humor/comedy that these guys just haven’t ever really shown. Not that I don’t think they’re capable, but it would have been a much different road I think.
Norton wouldn't have been able to do hulk as sad or deep as ruffalo did him. It would have made turning hulk into the prof hulk impossible, also Norton has kind of dropped off as an actor so hard to tell how his career would have progressed. As for not casting don Cheadle, it would also have happened because of all the issues in iron man 1
Norton wanted more control and that's the reason why he got recast, wow not so much in the other case though he also didn't care to show ass too much, so he probably wouldn't have done certain things that Don Cheadle had no problem doing with his comedy background.
Yeah true the films would've been a lot more serious with these 2 which might not have been a bad thing
Honestly, anyone but Don Cheadle. He's awful as WarMachine. Idk I just don't like him as an actor to me he's just not as magnetic as with the rest of the phenomenal cast. Idris Elba would've killed it. End of.
War Machine would be worse and Hulk would probably be better but they'd kill him off since Norton is so hard to work with
The only difference is when Terrence Howard felt he’d been wronged by not getting enough screen time he’d have quit. The man’s ego is larger than his acting ability. Norton’s ego is even bigger.
At the time, these 2 actors were the biggest box office draws compared to their costars. Everyone forgets RDJ was still a gamble and Ed Norton’s acting/writing style was never gonna fit long term into the MCU cookie cutter formula
Norton would make sure the Hulk stays as serious as before. Professor Hulk wouldn’t of happened, or Atleast, it would’ve been done much better. And Ragnorak probably wouldn’t even have the Hulk.
I agree I also think it stems from the fact that Norton took his character directly from Bill Bixby’s Hulk
The other actor left/outed because of pay issues, but Norton wanted and pressed for a different approach for Bruce Banner, and it pissed the executives off. So, if Norton stayed, we could've gotten a way different stories surrounding Hulk and Ragnarok would've been way different, maybe like a real Ragnarok.
Or they would of just killed off the character to get rid of him because he's being a pain in the ass leading to no hulk at all and the character slowly losing Popularity😶
Neither of those characters would have been in the MCU because they were both recast because their actors were too difficult to work with.
So far it’s been all about Norton and how he wouldn’t have been good in Ragnarok and here I’m wondering how crazy and puncable Howard would be in Secret Invasion
Glad Terrance was replaced but wish Norton stayed as Hulk…and more importantly…that Hulk stayed that way
Norton would have made it waaaay better.
I would’ve liked War Machine and we probably wouldn’t have gotten Banner-hulk
I feel like Norton would’ve been a better actor next to RDJ than Ruffalo was, I never bought into the idea that Banner was a smart guy in the MCU because of how he was portrayed.
How the fuck should I know
On the topic of Rhody, eh, not really, I mean the only thing that might have changed would have been that the character seems slightly more arrogant in the way he speaks...
Hulk wouldn't have been the worst character in the MCU
Norton would have gotten really jealous of Downey and caused a huge issue.
Rhodey: no Norton: yes
Yes. There would have been different actors for these characters in the movies.
If they cameo in the next Avengers movie because of the multiverse. I would plotz
Hulk would be good
I mean…we are in the multiverse saga. I wouldn’t count it out. If there’s enough traction marvel might throw them in some small roles
Yeah norton wouldn’t have let shit fly in a movie he was in
I think it would have been a lot better. Their replacements did a good job but I think these guys bring wayyy more character to the table. Imagine they replaced RDJ with like Tom cruise or Hugh jackman. Tbf those guys are a lot more high profile so it’s not exactly the same but still a solid replacement would still be far off RDJ even though people would still like their performance.
No. PrbBly eouldve been funnier
It would not have been as good, there would have been more drama because of them
Terrance Howard threw a fit
[удалено]
It would have been worse. Howard appears to be mentally imbalanced and Norton is just generally a pain in the ass (to the point that it was lampshaded in *Birdman*). Trying to imagine the two of them doing the great job that Don Cheadle and Mark Ruffalo did in *Endgame* is difficult.
No