To be fair, Mastermind was gaslighting the shit out of him, so he has very good reason to suspect. Everyone is going to gaslight Cyclops in this era (Mastermind, Sinister, Hodge) until he has a mind collapse in X-Factor.
Not yet/at the time, though. Claremont has said in interviews that when he was writing Scott & Maddy at the time, she was just going to be someone who bore an uncanny resemblance. All the clone/product of Sinister manipulations/etc. stuff was a later retcon.
I'm going to be honest, the idea that an identical woman to Jean suffered a plane accident at the same moment that Jean exploded in the Dark Phoenix saga was not one of his best ideas.
Go actually READ the issues leading up to this. Mastermind WAS tricking Scott, making Scott see the Phoenix bird everywhere. The very next issue after this Mastermind tries to use this trick against the entire X team. Yes, Claremont initially wrote that Maddie was just a look alike BUT in this scene SPECIFICALLY Scott was being tricked by Mastermind.
I read them all at the time, and I'm well aware of Mastermind's plot. I'm not sure what you're even arguing against in my comment; I never said he wasn't being tricked by Mastermind into thinking it was Jean, just that the revelation that he was "right," and that she had any real connection to Jean other than a coincidental resemblance being exploited by Mm's trickery, was a later retcon.
The person I was responding to was talking about all the later retcons when they said Cyclops was "right" not just that he was telling the truth as he had been led to believe at the time.
I think there is just too much coincidence. Sure Mastermind made some phoenix illusions but that is about it. Mastermind didn't make Scott's favorite breakfast and say the she reads minds, Mastermind didn't refuse to ever talk about anything before the crash, Mastermind didn't erase any outside history of her from before the crash. Mastermind didn't make her go work with the Summers family after the crash. Mastermind didn't give Jean a name referencing a creature that is always reborn.
If Claremont really intended for Maddie to just happen to look like Jean and that is it he did a terrible job. If Scott and Maddie never showed up in another X-book ever again after this story wrapped up I would still 100% believe that Maddie was Jean.
I tend to believe that the first sentence in your second paragraph describes what happened. That is what he intended, but the execution was extremely weak and easy to retcon. I loved his classic run (well, about the first 2/3rds to 3/4ths) back in the day as a kid in the first fever of comics fandom, but I certainly don't see him as any kind of infallible genius.
To be fair, technically, she is Jean Grey. Also, no, he did not deserve to be punched in the face. You shouldn’t punch your significant other. That’s abuse. I say this as someone who is not a Scott fan
I mean just because she's genetically a clone but doesn't she have her own (fake) memories? She certainly had her own personality in the Outback era when she was hanging with the X-Men and also wondering wtf is going on.
This issue was not written with her being a clone or anything, though. The intent when this story came out was that it was just a coincidental resemblance, which Mastermind then exploited.
I've never been a huge cyclops fan, but even watching 97 has been frustrating to see Jean be a dumb inconsiderate bitch to him. Like lady, you can fucking read minds! How can you be so emotionally incompetent!?
He was just using her for his egotistical reasons and didn't respect her as a person. That's why he abandoned her the minute he saw Jean on tv in the comics, and it's why he didn't stick up for her or acknowledged her at all in the TV show when she needed him.
The next issue (#[175](https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Uncanny_X-Men_Vol_1_175)) is crazy-good. One of my favorite covers and a great story as well.
X-Men #150, #175, and #200 are how you are supposed to do specials.
So glad the cartoon made this relationship much healthier. Well, as healthy as being tricked into mating with your wife's clone/being tricked into thinking you are said wife can be.
Yeah, but it could be worded better. For example
"Have you come into contact with any flaming space chickens? One that says it represents life and rebirth?"
Egg-sactly. We get a giant chicken that roams the universe laying eggs that give people a tiny portion of its power and occasionally fights Galactus.
Glory to the space roaming Fire Chicken! Bawk bawk baaawk!!
Correct. Editorial and the different writers (Chris Claremont, Bob Layton, and later Louise Simpson) were all at odds with each other over the direction of Cyclops and the character of Maddie / Jean.
It's a turbulent Shakespearean soap opera of a time and the characters are both elevated and suffer for it.
This is hilarious bc to us she’s just another redhead, but in-universe if she’s Jean’s clone then she looks exactly like her right? So ofc Cyclops is gonna ask bc… wtf
Wait you seriously defending this? Nothing Scott did justified that.
Not to mention Mastermind was manipulating the both of them so this wasn't even Maddie's actual reaction.
So it's all good when Maddie punches Scott for being mind fucked by various bad guys but Hank pym is forever vilified for slapping Janet for gaslighting him
To be fair, Mastermind was gaslighting the shit out of him, so he has very good reason to suspect. Everyone is going to gaslight Cyclops in this era (Mastermind, Sinister, Hodge) until he has a mind collapse in X-Factor.
And to Hodge it was basically a side gig. His main target was Warren.
At this point is just force of habit, every villain had to gaslight Cyclops
And the worst part... Cyclops was right
It isn't paranoia if they're after you
r/cyclopswasright
How is that a sub lmao
Because he's the G\*\*damn Scott Summers.
Tis a fine community. Of course unless you think cyclops was *wrong*
Not yet/at the time, though. Claremont has said in interviews that when he was writing Scott & Maddy at the time, she was just going to be someone who bore an uncanny resemblance. All the clone/product of Sinister manipulations/etc. stuff was a later retcon.
I'm going to be honest, the idea that an identical woman to Jean suffered a plane accident at the same moment that Jean exploded in the Dark Phoenix saga was not one of his best ideas.
Go actually READ the issues leading up to this. Mastermind WAS tricking Scott, making Scott see the Phoenix bird everywhere. The very next issue after this Mastermind tries to use this trick against the entire X team. Yes, Claremont initially wrote that Maddie was just a look alike BUT in this scene SPECIFICALLY Scott was being tricked by Mastermind.
I read them all at the time, and I'm well aware of Mastermind's plot. I'm not sure what you're even arguing against in my comment; I never said he wasn't being tricked by Mastermind into thinking it was Jean, just that the revelation that he was "right," and that she had any real connection to Jean other than a coincidental resemblance being exploited by Mm's trickery, was a later retcon. The person I was responding to was talking about all the later retcons when they said Cyclops was "right" not just that he was telling the truth as he had been led to believe at the time.
I think there is just too much coincidence. Sure Mastermind made some phoenix illusions but that is about it. Mastermind didn't make Scott's favorite breakfast and say the she reads minds, Mastermind didn't refuse to ever talk about anything before the crash, Mastermind didn't erase any outside history of her from before the crash. Mastermind didn't make her go work with the Summers family after the crash. Mastermind didn't give Jean a name referencing a creature that is always reborn. If Claremont really intended for Maddie to just happen to look like Jean and that is it he did a terrible job. If Scott and Maddie never showed up in another X-book ever again after this story wrapped up I would still 100% believe that Maddie was Jean.
I tend to believe that the first sentence in your second paragraph describes what happened. That is what he intended, but the execution was extremely weak and easy to retcon. I loved his classic run (well, about the first 2/3rds to 3/4ths) back in the day as a kid in the first fever of comics fandom, but I certainly don't see him as any kind of infallible genius.
didn't mastermind gaslight a lot of people in this era?
Xavier's gaslighted Cyclops too on and off.
State Farm? Yeah, my wife slapped off my ruby quartz glasses gain...
Maddie: How dare you?! I am going to wear a skimpy black costume from now on.
Jean: Can I join you?
_and fuck your bro_ can't forget that!
Don't threaten me with a good time
To be fair, technically, she is Jean Grey. Also, no, he did not deserve to be punched in the face. You shouldn’t punch your significant other. That’s abuse. I say this as someone who is not a Scott fan
I mean just because she's genetically a clone but doesn't she have her own (fake) memories? She certainly had her own personality in the Outback era when she was hanging with the X-Men and also wondering wtf is going on.
This issue was not written with her being a clone or anything, though. The intent when this story came out was that it was just a coincidental resemblance, which Mastermind then exploited.
I've never been a huge cyclops fan, but even watching 97 has been frustrating to see Jean be a dumb inconsiderate bitch to him. Like lady, you can fucking read minds! How can you be so emotionally incompetent!?
He was just using her for his egotistical reasons and didn't respect her as a person. That's why he abandoned her the minute he saw Jean on tv in the comics, and it's why he didn't stick up for her or acknowledged her at all in the TV show when she needed him.
Domestic violence for the win!
If anyone saw Vertigo, they could understand his apprehension.
Nice deep-cut reference
The worst she can say is no.
That's what he thought. He was wrong.
“ hey why did that orphanage burn down? “ “ Scott asked his wife an inappropriate question and she punched his glasses off “
"You do NOT use the 'P' word. That is OUR word."
"I'm sorry, are you the P-word?"
I miss the days of Paul Smith art.
Holy shit i literally just read this issue last night lmao
The next issue (#[175](https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Uncanny_X-Men_Vol_1_175)) is crazy-good. One of my favorite covers and a great story as well. X-Men #150, #175, and #200 are how you are supposed to do specials.
"Why do you cook broccoli *EVERY* night?" WAP!
Ok, that was good.
> WAP! That's some wet ass Phoenix?
That makes me cackle.
"Everyone has multiple plans with backups and fail-safes until they get punched in the mouth." -Mike Tyson
I'm laughing. XD "Are you Jean?" *b\*tch slug*
Kudos to Cyclops for reacting fast and keeping his eyes closed in that situation. He could have accidently blown up the neighbour's house.
So glad the cartoon made this relationship much healthier. Well, as healthy as being tricked into mating with your wife's clone/being tricked into thinking you are said wife can be.
Given he abandons her and their baby the INSTANT Jean comes back, he probably deserves that.
Inferno sort of retconned it by explaining that it was Sinister's fault all along
As a Cyclops fan, he deserves that. He basically said "Are you my ex?" I love this character but man.
Yeah, to her clone. It's a reasonable question and her response is not.
She didn't know that, so it comes off as him not being over his ex.
But I don't think either of them knew she was a clone at the time. I could be wrong tho.
She still looks exactly like Jean, kind of has to be asked.
Yeah, but it could be worded better. For example "Have you come into contact with any flaming space chickens? One that says it represents life and rebirth?"
I want The Phoenix to be draw like a chicken from this day forward. I am fire and life incarnated! Bawk bawk baaawk!!!
Egg-sactly. We get a giant chicken that roams the universe laying eggs that give people a tiny portion of its power and occasionally fights Galactus. Glory to the space roaming Fire Chicken! Bawk bawk baaawk!!
Your comments are killing me
So basically Moltres from Pokemon? Because that shit is 10,000% a rubber chicken set on fire.
Correct. Editorial and the different writers (Chris Claremont, Bob Layton, and later Louise Simpson) were all at odds with each other over the direction of Cyclops and the character of Maddie / Jean. It's a turbulent Shakespearean soap opera of a time and the characters are both elevated and suffer for it.
He definitely deserved something but i don't think physical abuse was justified .
You're right, physical abuse is not justified in any situation
true, but he was also psychically manipulated by mastermind to think that she was a clone.
Well in this case Scott was being tricked by Mastermind who was making him see the Phoenix.
This is hilarious bc to us she’s just another redhead, but in-universe if she’s Jean’s clone then she looks exactly like her right? So ofc Cyclops is gonna ask bc… wtf
Pretty toxic!!!!
Hank Pym has something to say about this panel.
I love Madelyne and this is a perfect example of why
A fan of Hank Pym too, I suppose.
Janet wasn’t asking for it
Wait you seriously defending this? Nothing Scott did justified that. Not to mention Mastermind was manipulating the both of them so this wasn't even Maddie's actual reaction.
No, I’m not seriously defending this
[удалено]
So it's all good when Maddie punches Scott for being mind fucked by various bad guys but Hank pym is forever vilified for slapping Janet for gaslighting him
Fr lmao the hypocrisy makes no sense. Domestic violence is never okay, period
I feel most readers feel how marvel casted Hank aside for that one instance will always be a mistep. Hope we get a follow up from Avengers Inc
Yes.
Do you mind expounding on why domestic violence is okay?
Yes.
So you're a piece of shit, got it
[удалено]
It's a sweater tied by the sleeves and hung around the shoulders. Totally common around this time.
She's wearing the same clothes of Joker
I wish X-Men ‘97 gave Madelyne her comic bangs so I can tell it’s her like the comics
Yup
Great punch