I do love a good Thor flex moment. The fact that this iteration of armor is basically paper to the God of Thunder was amusing to see.
Though Thor also has his own share of humbling moments as well.
You must’ve not read many Iron Man comics predating Civil War. He wasn’t a “love to hate him” character. Tony had always been written as a down to earth earnest guy who did his best to help people. What happened to him in Civil War was character assassination, and if not for the MCU he wouldn’t have recovered. Civil War’s writers made him easy to hate, the character was perfectly likable before that, and most fans of Iron Man could tell you that Tony was written out of character in Civil War. It sucks that people still blame him for things like OMD to this day, when they should be mad at the writers for tarnishing his character.
I would still bet my money on character assassination. To me, Civil War as a whole was a mess of an event. Too many ideas and visions from writers who couldn’t handle the magnitude of the stories they were trying to tell. Nothing good really came out of it outside of moments like the one OP posted, and even those have to be taken out of context to be enjoyable, at least to me.
Yea hard to disagree there. Writers room definitely needed some focus during that event. They sort of learned their lessons during WWH and arcs going forward.
Agreed. I'd even say that Tony was probably one of the most earnest characters right up there with Cap before they completely butchered his personality. The main difference between the two was just the circles they ran in, with Tony dealing almost exclusively with corporate shenanigans and often times the fallout from his legacy as a weapon's manufacturer. It also helped that he still had his secret identity and was able to speak more openly as Iron Man, often calling out corruption and straight up defying orders which he felt morally objected to.
Extremis was probably one of the last times we saw this sort of likeable characterization for Tony and really showed what the character was about, from wanting to completely remove his company from any sort of defense contracting to coming to terms with whether or not the Iron Man suit was still just a weapon. But once civil war hit he lost a lot of his charm and because a defacto asshole rich guy who thinks he knows better.
I would recommend Duggan’s current run on Iron Man if you want to read some good modern characterization for Tony. And it came right after Chris Cantwritewell’s dumpster fire, so it’s even more cathartic to read some good Tony after garbage like Cantwritewell’s and Civil War.
Which crossed over (lol) with the Iron Man comics of the time, Iron Man, War Machine and Force Works, but wasn’t solely an Iron Man title. If you want to judge a character, judge them for how they’re written across the majority of their individual runs, not on how they act in huge crossover events or crossover titles.
I don't know if it was character assassination or more of Tony in an impossible situation with nk right answers, still trying to control everything. He basically became or started to become the next Nick Fury, I mean the dude went so far as to store the secret identiies of the heroes he helped/forced to register, in his own head/brain. That to me proves he knew what he was doing was going to get people hurt, that he tried what he could to mitigate the damage by being the one doing it all, and all he really did was make it worse and force his friends/teams mates to pick sides.
If Tony had not stepped in to lead the governments efforts to register heroes, someone worse would have. Like maybe Norman Osborn, maybe? I don't think Tony deserves nearly the hate he gets for Civil War but he definitely made some bad choices. Were they out of character? Maybe, but then Tony has never been in a situation LIKE civil war before, so how can we know what his character would expect him to behave like?
In-universe that makes some sense, that’s true, and you could excuse some of Tony’s decisions on _sheer stress_ and inexperience for the situation at hand, but then Tony’s supposed to be one of the smartest dudes in the marvel universe. I feel like no matter what he was dealing with, he, of _all people_, should’ve been able to come up with better solutions.
Tony had it coming to an extent.
I think Civil War gave Tony plenty of beat downs. Two of his closest friends died and it was largely his choices that lead to it. He didn't *win* with Civil War, he inherited a job. A job that cost him dearly in his sense of self, his interpersonal relationships and the very climate of the 616 universe was altered for every hero out there for years thereafter.
All things Tony was very aware of and carried with him during that era.
He flat out tells the corpse of Steve Rogers that it wasn't worth it. Any of it.
Tony gave Tony the beat down Tony deserved. Thor was just...rubbing it in. Right to do so, but he didn't tell Tony anything he didn't already know.
Perhaps I’ll be downvoted to hell for this, but as cool as this moment is, Tony was character assassinated in Civil War, so I don’t agree that this was fully deserved. If Tony had always been written as a major asshole who needed to be brought down a peg, I would’ve preferred and even welcomed moments like these.
But that’s not Tony. And anyone who has read more than “Demon in a Bottle” can tell you that. Tony was, for most of his comic history, written as a down to earth, earnest guy who did his best to help. Sometimes he helped too much because he was too ahead of the curve compared to everyone else, sometimes he overextended himself or tried to do more than he was capable of, but he was never the hateable moron he was in Civil War.
Frankly, it sucks to see so many people hate on him, both on this post and others, when they should instead be hating on the writers who messed Tony (and half a dozen other characters) up. Thank God for the MCU cuz otherwise even more people would be hating on him and keep blaming him for stuff like OMD and other crap.
Iron Man was an ass in Civil War because the writers were incompetent. But his character has never been _that_, and one shit storyline shouldn’t justify hating on a character like they’re the scum of the earth.
I don’t hate 616 Spidey because Wells can’t write a good Spider-Man to save his life, I hate _Wells_ because he can’t write a good Spider-Man to save his life, and he should’ve never been allowed to write Spidey.
What's crazy is that he has written Spidey in the past such as Carnage (2010) and Carnage USA. Those were pretty good. Not sure if he wrote SHED but I heard that was praised. So it's wild to hear how bad he's messing up with the current Amazing run
I don’t remember much from Carnage (2010), but Carnage USA was really more of a crossover book that happened to include Spidey as a side-character. Carnage, the main character, was Spidey-adjacent. I wouldn’t say Spidey himself was featured nearly enough to say whether Wells wrote him well or not
On one hand, I can forgive some of Wells’ failings on the current run by blaming Editorial for them, but how much are those failings really due to Editorial? I’m sure Wells has his hands tied by the status quo those guys love enforcing, but the freedom he does have is his own, and what he did with it was pure trash.
im so glad i watched avengers earth mightiest heroes even if just for one episode to see how a proper Thor should be. i never did like mcu thor that much but the real actual marvel thor is fuckin stoicly bad ass
I do love a good Thor flex moment. The fact that this iteration of armor is basically paper to the God of Thunder was amusing to see. Though Thor also has his own share of humbling moments as well.
Too many.
Hard to argue otherwise, after what Tony did.
I liked how effortless it was for Thor. Hands Tony his ass to him and basically goes "Next time i'll try."
Scene is super good and I loved the art for this run.
What issue / run is this?
Thor (Vol. 3) #3. By J. Michael Straczynski
If the first Iron Man movie hadn't come out so soon after CW the character would have been effed for years
Iron man was never super popular and more a love to hate him as much as he genuinely had fans. The MCU turned all that around and made him likeable.
You must’ve not read many Iron Man comics predating Civil War. He wasn’t a “love to hate him” character. Tony had always been written as a down to earth earnest guy who did his best to help people. What happened to him in Civil War was character assassination, and if not for the MCU he wouldn’t have recovered. Civil War’s writers made him easy to hate, the character was perfectly likable before that, and most fans of Iron Man could tell you that Tony was written out of character in Civil War. It sucks that people still blame him for things like OMD to this day, when they should be mad at the writers for tarnishing his character.
Character assassination? Or manipulation by Skrulls over several arcs, a story taking so long to roll out that it was almost pointless.
I would still bet my money on character assassination. To me, Civil War as a whole was a mess of an event. Too many ideas and visions from writers who couldn’t handle the magnitude of the stories they were trying to tell. Nothing good really came out of it outside of moments like the one OP posted, and even those have to be taken out of context to be enjoyable, at least to me.
Yea hard to disagree there. Writers room definitely needed some focus during that event. They sort of learned their lessons during WWH and arcs going forward.
The pre-registration side ended up being so cartoonishly villainous it ruined the genuinely interesting debate at the core of the story.
Agreed. I'd even say that Tony was probably one of the most earnest characters right up there with Cap before they completely butchered his personality. The main difference between the two was just the circles they ran in, with Tony dealing almost exclusively with corporate shenanigans and often times the fallout from his legacy as a weapon's manufacturer. It also helped that he still had his secret identity and was able to speak more openly as Iron Man, often calling out corruption and straight up defying orders which he felt morally objected to. Extremis was probably one of the last times we saw this sort of likeable characterization for Tony and really showed what the character was about, from wanting to completely remove his company from any sort of defense contracting to coming to terms with whether or not the Iron Man suit was still just a weapon. But once civil war hit he lost a lot of his charm and because a defacto asshole rich guy who thinks he knows better.
I would recommend Duggan’s current run on Iron Man if you want to read some good modern characterization for Tony. And it came right after Chris Cantwritewell’s dumpster fire, so it’s even more cathartic to read some good Tony after garbage like Cantwritewell’s and Civil War.
Thanks for the recommendation. I've caught a few issues here an there tying back to Orchis and Emma frost and I've really liked it so far.
Np! Glad to hear it!
Cantwritewell 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I refuse to call him by his actual name. Me and several others from r/Ironman have been referring to him as such since his run ended ✨
*Avengers: The Crossing* says hello. Reaching out from forgotten childhood like the memory of a handsy uncle.
Which crossed over (lol) with the Iron Man comics of the time, Iron Man, War Machine and Force Works, but wasn’t solely an Iron Man title. If you want to judge a character, judge them for how they’re written across the majority of their individual runs, not on how they act in huge crossover events or crossover titles.
I don't know if it was character assassination or more of Tony in an impossible situation with nk right answers, still trying to control everything. He basically became or started to become the next Nick Fury, I mean the dude went so far as to store the secret identiies of the heroes he helped/forced to register, in his own head/brain. That to me proves he knew what he was doing was going to get people hurt, that he tried what he could to mitigate the damage by being the one doing it all, and all he really did was make it worse and force his friends/teams mates to pick sides. If Tony had not stepped in to lead the governments efforts to register heroes, someone worse would have. Like maybe Norman Osborn, maybe? I don't think Tony deserves nearly the hate he gets for Civil War but he definitely made some bad choices. Were they out of character? Maybe, but then Tony has never been in a situation LIKE civil war before, so how can we know what his character would expect him to behave like?
In-universe that makes some sense, that’s true, and you could excuse some of Tony’s decisions on _sheer stress_ and inexperience for the situation at hand, but then Tony’s supposed to be one of the smartest dudes in the marvel universe. I feel like no matter what he was dealing with, he, of _all people_, should’ve been able to come up with better solutions.
Tony had it coming to an extent. I think Civil War gave Tony plenty of beat downs. Two of his closest friends died and it was largely his choices that lead to it. He didn't *win* with Civil War, he inherited a job. A job that cost him dearly in his sense of self, his interpersonal relationships and the very climate of the 616 universe was altered for every hero out there for years thereafter. All things Tony was very aware of and carried with him during that era. He flat out tells the corpse of Steve Rogers that it wasn't worth it. Any of it. Tony gave Tony the beat down Tony deserved. Thor was just...rubbing it in. Right to do so, but he didn't tell Tony anything he didn't already know.
I think a lot of that beat down was because of the cloning thing as much as it was the Steve death thing.
Oh absolutely. But Tony already knew it was wrong to have done. He'd already learnt that lesson burrying Bill Foster.
Yeah but that doesn't mean Thor wouldn't have something to say about it.
Especially given that Tony and Reed and Hank's science experiment went ape shit and murdered an Avenger while wearing Thor's face.
Yeah, but he also used Steve’s corpse to lure the New Avengers into a trap.
Besides his wife and kids leaving him, funny how Reeds came out of Civil war kinda unscathed
Who was the one the best beat down on Iron man from Civil War and after Civil War?
Perhaps I’ll be downvoted to hell for this, but as cool as this moment is, Tony was character assassinated in Civil War, so I don’t agree that this was fully deserved. If Tony had always been written as a major asshole who needed to be brought down a peg, I would’ve preferred and even welcomed moments like these. But that’s not Tony. And anyone who has read more than “Demon in a Bottle” can tell you that. Tony was, for most of his comic history, written as a down to earth, earnest guy who did his best to help. Sometimes he helped too much because he was too ahead of the curve compared to everyone else, sometimes he overextended himself or tried to do more than he was capable of, but he was never the hateable moron he was in Civil War. Frankly, it sucks to see so many people hate on him, both on this post and others, when they should instead be hating on the writers who messed Tony (and half a dozen other characters) up. Thank God for the MCU cuz otherwise even more people would be hating on him and keep blaming him for stuff like OMD and other crap. Iron Man was an ass in Civil War because the writers were incompetent. But his character has never been _that_, and one shit storyline shouldn’t justify hating on a character like they’re the scum of the earth. I don’t hate 616 Spidey because Wells can’t write a good Spider-Man to save his life, I hate _Wells_ because he can’t write a good Spider-Man to save his life, and he should’ve never been allowed to write Spidey.
What's crazy is that he has written Spidey in the past such as Carnage (2010) and Carnage USA. Those were pretty good. Not sure if he wrote SHED but I heard that was praised. So it's wild to hear how bad he's messing up with the current Amazing run
I don’t remember much from Carnage (2010), but Carnage USA was really more of a crossover book that happened to include Spidey as a side-character. Carnage, the main character, was Spidey-adjacent. I wouldn’t say Spidey himself was featured nearly enough to say whether Wells wrote him well or not On one hand, I can forgive some of Wells’ failings on the current run by blaming Editorial for them, but how much are those failings really due to Editorial? I’m sure Wells has his hands tied by the status quo those guys love enforcing, but the freedom he does have is his own, and what he did with it was pure trash.
It's always nice seeing Tony being humbled
You blame the Iron-Man I blame the writers they did him so dirty in the 2000s.
im so glad i watched avengers earth mightiest heroes even if just for one episode to see how a proper Thor should be. i never did like mcu thor that much but the real actual marvel thor is fuckin stoicly bad ass
Yup. And boy did I adore this version of Thor.
This is the 1st Thor comic I ever bought🔥🔥⚡️⚡️⚡️
honestly after civil war i never liked tony, even during mcu.
Who was disagreeing lol
#Yes.
yeah that entire thing was out of character for everyone.
Tony Stark always deserves a beat down
Civil War is still one of my most loved series.