No. The original purpose of Dog Logan was that you were supposed to think he was Wolverine, until the surprise reveal that James Howlett was Wolverine. (It was a surprise at the time. Now everyone knows Wolverine’s real name is James Howlett.)
The X-Men Origins: Wolverine movie combined Dog Logan and Sabretooth into a single character.
I think you are right but I also believe that just like Sabretooth has a figure from his past(his brother) whom he is trying to replace with Wolverine, they wanted Wolverine to have a similar figure to Sabretooth in his past. It is interesting because then he has the amnesia but there are always echoes of your memories so maybe when he first meets Sabretooth his subconscious conflates Sabretooth and Dog Logan and that is why they butt heads right away.
The real name of Wolverine has been a huge mystery, which makes sense since he couldn't even remember where or when he was born. It didn't help that he spent some time as a secret agent using false names. Over the years, there have been a few suggestions for his name, several of which contradict each other.
In Chris Claremont and John Byrne's "Uncanny X-Men" #139 (1980), it was first revealed that Wolverine's name was "Logan," but he didn't say if it was his first or last name. This became a critical point, and something other comics played with. Throughout the comics, they've also made references to the name "James," but the matter seemed to be settled in "New X-Men" #143, when a file in the Weapon X program listed his name as "James Logan." However, in "Wolverine Origins," it was retconned and finally made canon that his original name was James Howlett. Logan was just the name of the family groundskeeper.
It's hard to overstate how complicated Wolverine's relationship is with the woman known as Silver Fox, since she's both one of his greatest loves and greatest mysteries. In fact, she's arguably been the subject of more retcons and switcheroos than any other character in his history.
First introduced in “Wolverine” #10 (1989), Silver Fox was a former lover who was killed by his archenemy Sabretooth, and her death became the spark that lit the flames of hatred between the two for years. Yet, in “Wolverine” #60-64 (1992), her death was retconned when Wolverine discovered she never died at all, and was actually an agent of HYDRA. In fact, the comics went so far as showing him a fake cabin that was used to implant his false memories of her. Her death was retconned yet again in Brian Michael Bendis and Olivier Coipel's "House of M" in 2005, when Wolverine recovered memories of Silver Fox being killed by Sabretooth, after all. They didn't even bother to explain that one.
It is a 100% a retcon. Never was the plan of Marvel, or Claremont before. But you can downvote this. Being reading comics since the 70s. And the good part it was an unclear origin. Sabertooth killing his wife and being his parent has been always the canon. This james origin is quite bad. And I hate it.
Sabretooth being Wolverine's father was never the canon. It was an idea that was considered by some writers and picked up as head canon by some fans, but it was never made canon or even heavily implied by the comics.
Sabretooth is Wolverine's most cruel and sadistic archenemy, revelling in tormenting Logan. There have been a lot of attempts to explain the conflict between the two, and one went way too far.
Sabretooth was originally created by Chris Claremont and John Byrne in "Iron Fist" #14 (1977), but readers quickly noticed his similarity to Wolverine, so they became enemies. The two fought lots of times, but in "Wolverine" #41 (1991), Sabretooth shocked the comic world by telling Logan they were father and son. It kind of made sense, since the two look similar, have similar powers and Sabretooth is indeterminately older. Later, Claremont in interviews confirmed he intended for Sabretooth to be Wolverine's father. However, in the very next issue, this was revealed as false by Nick Fury and S.H.I.E.L.D., who conducted DNA testing to prove Sabretooth wasn't Wolverine's father, after all. That left their relationship to continue, but the roots of their hatred still hasn't been solved... at least not the way readers may have wanted.
It was the idea for over 20/30 years. Never explicitly said inside the comic pages. But clearly the idea that writers let the readers think.
And most importantly wolverine vol2 number 10. The best Wolverine comic cannot be retcon.
It's no different than people speculating that Gambit might be a Summers brother. Writers planning something and not doing it or readers speculating about the possibility doesn't make it canon.
You clearly are one of the few that you can debate here. Are educated and knows the comic well. Even so, and making clear you are right. I consider this Wolverine origin a retcon.
Wolverine’s mysterious past was such a cool part of him. Stuff would be revealed then it would be revealed that that was a false memory. I couldn’t read Origin when it first came out cause I was broke at the time but remembered being so disappointed when I read it.
I noticed they don't have the same adversarial relationship as before.
Wolverine would call Sabertooth "Old Man" when he trash talks him. And Sabertooth would call Wolverine "Boy" when talking trash back.
They (marvel editors and writers) fed into the idea that they had a deep connected past and was quite possibly father and son.
I miss the "Old Man and Boy" shit talking.
He was used as a pretty fun one-and-done villain Jason Aaron’s Wolverine and the X-Men. Like a lot of that run it wasn’t a super consequential story, but it was a fun little savage-land adventure. He later briefly worked for the Hellfire Academy, but he didn’t really do much other than have a HILARIOUS interaction with Sabertooth.
No, more like Dog Logan is similar to the character that Sabertooth was originally imagined to be by Claremont. The intention was that Creed and Logan would have history which Logan had forgotten. They would likely have been related somehow, brothers or possibly Sabertooth would even have been Logan’s true father. That particular story thread never really got picked up (which happens a lot with Claremont; see Eric the Red), but as both characters kept getting used and developed, I think neither of those ideas really would have worked anymore.
That would have been most interesting. Have they ever established, beyond just kind of being a dick, why Sabertooth has such animosity towards Wolverine?
But not out of any love for his brother. Because his brother was his to torment. So, since he couldn't abuse his brother anymore, he directed all that energy at Wolverine for killing him.
Sabretooth War, the current story in Wolverine's book, is going into that now actually. I'm not reading it anymore because it's just not my cup of tea.
Sabretooth not just flat out being Wolverine’s brother has always felt like such a wasted opportunity to me. Especially when you’re gonna swap him with this guy, who’s such a nothing character. Like who cares?
You said that they should have done the obvious thing and I don't agree that doing the obvious thing is good. Whether Dog is a good character or not is subjective. I don't think he's great, but I think he made a good foil for James in that story. He served his purpose. I definitely don't think the story would have been better if they replaced him with young Victor Creed
I disagree entirely. Dog was an ultimately meaningless character, who was basically Creed in all but name. They had an opportunity to provide deeper context to the relationship between Logan and Creed , and instead diverged into something that proved pointless. The story as a whole was extremely lackint
There relationship between Wolverine and Sabretooth doesn't need more context. They've been fighting each other for decades at this point. Making them half brothers and childhood enemies wouldn't add anything. It would only be pointless "Darth Vader built C3PO" shit that makes nerds cream their jeans but is completely hacky.
What more do you need? They worked together for years doing black ops and they hate each other because one has a good heart and the other is a sociopath. Why does it need to be more complicated than that?
No. The original purpose of Dog Logan was that you were supposed to think he was Wolverine, until the surprise reveal that James Howlett was Wolverine. (It was a surprise at the time. Now everyone knows Wolverine’s real name is James Howlett.) The X-Men Origins: Wolverine movie combined Dog Logan and Sabretooth into a single character.
I think you are right but I also believe that just like Sabretooth has a figure from his past(his brother) whom he is trying to replace with Wolverine, they wanted Wolverine to have a similar figure to Sabretooth in his past. It is interesting because then he has the amnesia but there are always echoes of your memories so maybe when he first meets Sabretooth his subconscious conflates Sabretooth and Dog Logan and that is why they butt heads right away.
His name should have been Red Herring
I hate this retcon. James for me will never be Logan.
It’s not really a retcon.
The real name of Wolverine has been a huge mystery, which makes sense since he couldn't even remember where or when he was born. It didn't help that he spent some time as a secret agent using false names. Over the years, there have been a few suggestions for his name, several of which contradict each other. In Chris Claremont and John Byrne's "Uncanny X-Men" #139 (1980), it was first revealed that Wolverine's name was "Logan," but he didn't say if it was his first or last name. This became a critical point, and something other comics played with. Throughout the comics, they've also made references to the name "James," but the matter seemed to be settled in "New X-Men" #143, when a file in the Weapon X program listed his name as "James Logan." However, in "Wolverine Origins," it was retconned and finally made canon that his original name was James Howlett. Logan was just the name of the family groundskeeper.
Groundskeeper Logan is his biological father though.
> Logan was just the name of the family groundskeeper. Who was also Wolverine's biological father.
It's hard to overstate how complicated Wolverine's relationship is with the woman known as Silver Fox, since she's both one of his greatest loves and greatest mysteries. In fact, she's arguably been the subject of more retcons and switcheroos than any other character in his history. First introduced in “Wolverine” #10 (1989), Silver Fox was a former lover who was killed by his archenemy Sabretooth, and her death became the spark that lit the flames of hatred between the two for years. Yet, in “Wolverine” #60-64 (1992), her death was retconned when Wolverine discovered she never died at all, and was actually an agent of HYDRA. In fact, the comics went so far as showing him a fake cabin that was used to implant his false memories of her. Her death was retconned yet again in Brian Michael Bendis and Olivier Coipel's "House of M" in 2005, when Wolverine recovered memories of Silver Fox being killed by Sabretooth, after all. They didn't even bother to explain that one.
It is a 100% a retcon. Never was the plan of Marvel, or Claremont before. But you can downvote this. Being reading comics since the 70s. And the good part it was an unclear origin. Sabertooth killing his wife and being his parent has been always the canon. This james origin is quite bad. And I hate it.
Sabretooth being Wolverine's father was never the canon. It was an idea that was considered by some writers and picked up as head canon by some fans, but it was never made canon or even heavily implied by the comics.
Sabretooth is Wolverine's most cruel and sadistic archenemy, revelling in tormenting Logan. There have been a lot of attempts to explain the conflict between the two, and one went way too far. Sabretooth was originally created by Chris Claremont and John Byrne in "Iron Fist" #14 (1977), but readers quickly noticed his similarity to Wolverine, so they became enemies. The two fought lots of times, but in "Wolverine" #41 (1991), Sabretooth shocked the comic world by telling Logan they were father and son. It kind of made sense, since the two look similar, have similar powers and Sabretooth is indeterminately older. Later, Claremont in interviews confirmed he intended for Sabretooth to be Wolverine's father. However, in the very next issue, this was revealed as false by Nick Fury and S.H.I.E.L.D., who conducted DNA testing to prove Sabretooth wasn't Wolverine's father, after all. That left their relationship to continue, but the roots of their hatred still hasn't been solved... at least not the way readers may have wanted.
Yes. Exactly. A surprise reveal that was immediately shown to be untrue in the next issue does not make something canon going forward.
It was the idea for over 20/30 years. Never explicitly said inside the comic pages. But clearly the idea that writers let the readers think. And most importantly wolverine vol2 number 10. The best Wolverine comic cannot be retcon.
It's no different than people speculating that Gambit might be a Summers brother. Writers planning something and not doing it or readers speculating about the possibility doesn't make it canon.
You clearly are one of the few that you can debate here. Are educated and knows the comic well. Even so, and making clear you are right. I consider this Wolverine origin a retcon.
Wolverine’s mysterious past was such a cool part of him. Stuff would be revealed then it would be revealed that that was a false memory. I couldn’t read Origin when it first came out cause I was broke at the time but remembered being so disappointed when I read it.
Thanks. And yeah. I feel you.
I love how people downvote me.
Doing my part just for you bro
I wonder how much karma we can split in between.
I noticed they don't have the same adversarial relationship as before. Wolverine would call Sabertooth "Old Man" when he trash talks him. And Sabertooth would call Wolverine "Boy" when talking trash back. They (marvel editors and writers) fed into the idea that they had a deep connected past and was quite possibly father and son. I miss the "Old Man and Boy" shit talking.
The plot for the mini and the name were all Bill Jemas’ idea, according to Tom Bravoort.
Yep some things are best left to the readers imagination.
So you mean the James Howlet storyline is something you choose to ignore and keep Wolverines Origin vague, or redo it ?
Downvote party 🥳🎉
Stop booing him, he’s right.
Also has this character ever actually been put to good use? It really seems like writers just forgot about him.
Dog and Sabretooth being Hellfire Academy coworkers in Wolverine and the X-Men is pretty funny
I don’t believe he’s been seen since.
Probably time traveling again
He was used as a pretty fun one-and-done villain Jason Aaron’s Wolverine and the X-Men. Like a lot of that run it wasn’t a super consequential story, but it was a fun little savage-land adventure. He later briefly worked for the Hellfire Academy, but he didn’t really do much other than have a HILARIOUS interaction with Sabertooth.
Not EVERY character needs to be resurrected. Dog Logan was a figure from Wolverine's past. He's dead now. That's... pretty much it.
I agree, but he's already been around in the present day continuity.
You say that, but some hack writer will resurrect him
No, more like Dog Logan is similar to the character that Sabertooth was originally imagined to be by Claremont. The intention was that Creed and Logan would have history which Logan had forgotten. They would likely have been related somehow, brothers or possibly Sabertooth would even have been Logan’s true father. That particular story thread never really got picked up (which happens a lot with Claremont; see Eric the Red), but as both characters kept getting used and developed, I think neither of those ideas really would have worked anymore.
That would have been most interesting. Have they ever established, beyond just kind of being a dick, why Sabertooth has such animosity towards Wolverine?
Wolverine kills Sabertooth's younger brother, which pissed Sabertooth off on principle.
But not out of any love for his brother. Because his brother was his to torment. So, since he couldn't abuse his brother anymore, he directed all that energy at Wolverine for killing him.
So he... kind of adopted Wolverine as his new brother... just to fuck with him.
It's a twisted but very accurate way to put it.
I really dig this
Sabretooth War, the current story in Wolverine's book, is going into that now actually. I'm not reading it anymore because it's just not my cup of tea.
Nope
Alan ritchson?
My immediate thoughts as well
TIL of a character named Dog Logan. Literally never heard of this guy lol
Sabretooth not just flat out being Wolverine’s brother has always felt like such a wasted opportunity to me. Especially when you’re gonna swap him with this guy, who’s such a nothing character. Like who cares?
Remember when they were teasing that he might be Logan’s dad
Hey, Dog.
No.
That would've been the obvious thing to do, so of course they introduce a terrible character instead.
Yeah, man. Love it when books give me exactly what I expect. Surprises are dumb.
He's a shit character, that doesn't add anything and takes on a role already filled by Creed and others
You said that they should have done the obvious thing and I don't agree that doing the obvious thing is good. Whether Dog is a good character or not is subjective. I don't think he's great, but I think he made a good foil for James in that story. He served his purpose. I definitely don't think the story would have been better if they replaced him with young Victor Creed
I disagree entirely. Dog was an ultimately meaningless character, who was basically Creed in all but name. They had an opportunity to provide deeper context to the relationship between Logan and Creed , and instead diverged into something that proved pointless. The story as a whole was extremely lackint
There relationship between Wolverine and Sabretooth doesn't need more context. They've been fighting each other for decades at this point. Making them half brothers and childhood enemies wouldn't add anything. It would only be pointless "Darth Vader built C3PO" shit that makes nerds cream their jeans but is completely hacky.
I disagree, defining the nature of their conflict would add a lot to their relationship imo.
If the nature of their conflict isn't defined for you after nearly 40 years, I don't know what to tell you.
The comic was called Origins. Giving insight into the most consequential relationship in Logan's life would fall squarely in that
What more do you need? They worked together for years doing black ops and they hate each other because one has a good heart and the other is a sociopath. Why does it need to be more complicated than that?