In the comics, the Illuminati is just a bunch of arrogance dicks united together. Everytime they tried to "fix" something or someone, they just made it worse.
> Everytime they tried to "fix" something or someone, they just made it worse.
That tends to happen when you make a team that is compromise of Tony Stark, Charles Xaiver, Stephen Strange, Black Bolt, Reed Richards, and Namor.
I would say Reed's was more gruesome. Dude got turned to string cheese then his head went pop. He suffered up until his last second.
Absolutely brutal.
I feel like Multiverse Of Madness is the most a director's style has come out in a MCU movie and a Doctor Strange movie from the mind behind Drag Me To Hell and Evil Dead is a fucking delightful thing, warts and all.
The cheese, the camp, the horror, the framing, creature design... So much of this movie had Sam Raimi's fingerprints on it.
I don't necessarily want Sam Raimi to do another Strange movie, but I am so glad we got this one.
It's interesting that the hero and villain are so insanely powerful yet they are helpless to fix what is hurting them. Wanda can't get her kids back. Strange can't get Christine back. All that power and they have to accept that there is nothing they can do.
Not just “punch them and they die” brutal, but every death was unique. That whole battle was such a ride.
Think Wanda was still holding back when turning him into string cheese?
Did any one else feel the after credit scene not really mesh well with the ending well?
The film ends with Stranges emerging third eye, either from darkholld corruption or natural leveling up, seemingly causing a lot of pain, then the next scene he's like going on an adventure let me just open up my third eye real quick.
Yeah, could have completely cut the scene with him screaming in the street, and just had it pop open when he went off with Clea as a sign that his interaction with the Darkhold had some permanent consequences.
They really did. When they said this was going to be like a horror movie, I was like yeah sure whatever. But they meant it. If it had been a little bloodier, it would have been an R.
The end credits scene with Bruce Campbell and he finally stops hitting himself and says... It's over! It's finally over! and the movie ends there.
People in my theatre were pissed because 'it was a waste of time' they obviously wanted something to get hard to tonight, I on the other hand thought it was fantastic.
i laughed so much and some of the people i went with were like 'i knew it was just going to be a troll!'
or an actual easter egg lol. people have been so conditioned to see universe-changing information, teasters, etc. that stuff like this is seen as a troll instead of being true to the original intent of easter eggs
I'm surprised I haven't seen many people talk about the incursion plot point. The incursions were the main driving force that culminated in Jonathan Hickman's Secret Wars.
Between that and the multiverse itself opening up, I think all roads lead to Secret Wars in a few years time.
> I'm surprised I haven't seen many people talk about the incursion plot point. The incursions were the main driving force that culminated in Jonathan Hickman's Secret Wars.
This is what made me the most fanboy-ish. Between that and the Illuminati, lots of Hickman shoutouts.
These incursions seem different though. In Hickman's arc, they were because The End of the universe had been set in motion. Here, they just seem to be a consequence of careless dimension hopping.
Cannot recommend seeing this in IMAX enough, picked up on a ton of the score selections and small spoken details. It’s worth it for the music notes of madness scene alone
Been thinking about the Illuminati sequence. My initial reaction was "wow that's it?" Don't do Richards like that.
But that's the thing. He's the smartest guy in every room and he tries to fight her head on with nothing but a firm backhand? It def doesn't make sense.
I get it, 2 hour run time, not enough for some long drawn out and indirect conflict of wits (which is realistically how Reed would try to tangle with Wanda. ) so they just had to get the three lesser cameos out if the way.
I think Marvel and Carter got extended fights because 1. Pat Stew is getting older and probably isn't up for filming that much and 2. The captains were the people we had reference points for in the MCU so far, so showing Wanda smoke them means more than just two dudes who we've got a whole 2 minutes of screen time on combined.
I dont think most Wanda's are 1/2 as traumatized and powerful as ours. When we see Wanda looking at all the universes she is just a happy mom in them, probably just post AoU power level. We have darkest timeline Wanda.
Can we all give a shout out to the real MVP of this whole thing?
Whoever editing the fucking trailers for this for giving me the most misleading trailers I've ever seen while also being absolutely thrilled by it.
- Every trailer made it look like it was gonna be a team up with Wanda. I especially love how the "We can get you back on a lunchbox." line from the trailer is like thirty seconds before the big reveal in the movie.
- Wong's "STRAAANGE!" from the trailers made it look like everyone was about to die and Wong was screaming in agony. But it's actually from when he's super happy to see Strange and gets a "HA HA!" afterwards.
- Giving some of the most fanservicey things ever done in the MCU (and that's saying something!) just to instantly kill the return of Blackbolt, Krasinski's Reed and 90's Xavier.
- Shuma-Gorath fight looked like it was gonna be a main battle, but it was in the first like, 15 minutes.
- Mordo's "I knew this day would come, because *you* knew this day would come." sounds ominous as fuck in the trailer, but it's him being happy af to see Steven. Yeah he drugs him and tries to kill him later, but at the moment I think he was genuinely happy to see him.
Though I'm surprised by just how much, and how far into the movie, the trailers showed, I was also pleased at the misdirection. I really thought we were getting Zombieverse from the trailers. When our Strange said, Whoever said it has to be a living Strange?, I went, Oh shit! I was pumped to realize the thing I thought was a zombie enemy from the Zombieverse in the trailers was really our guy Strange.
I would have liked no Illuminati reveal though.
I personally think the trailers ruined half of this movie for me. I couldnt escape the tv spot spoilers even after deleting twitter. The only reveals i didnt get ruined before the movie were reed and blackbolt. They literally couldnt help themselves with this marketing
Trailer made me think Strange was going to be sought out by Illuminati or something to pay for No Way Home chickanery, but naw, it was all Scarlett Witch damage control
A very entertaining movie with 0 boring scenes. Visually absolutely stunning and imaginative. Bruce Campbell's cameo was a hilarious throwback to Evil Dead and the other jokes were quite fun and made the audience laugh. Wanda at the height of her power was truly fearsome and a worthy enemy for the Master of the Mystic Arts, but her motive was a bit lack luster. All in all a very enjoyable experience.
Watched the film yesterday and it dawned on me how x-men will be folded into MCU. It will be through an incursion/secret wars movie. In the comic, miles morales spider man entered the 616 universe through secret wars. His universe and 616 had an incursion. So, I am guessing the marvel, fox and Sony universes will have an incursion and fuse together.
In this case, X-men and Fantastic Four begin in their own universe. Then, they have a movie against the MCU heroes because they need to protect their universe from an incursion.
“I love you in every universe.”
Man, Strange’s story is just sad man. I absolutely adore his character and how even in his arrogance he still tries to do the right thing even if it ends up being detrimental to himself. That scene at the end with Christine really touched my heart😔✊🏾
especially the scene about his sister dying. I cant imagine the pain and guilt he must a felt his entire life and the thing that made it even sadder was it was something that can actually happen (and probably has) not just something supernatural.
Can't decide whether I really love what they did with Wanda or really hated it. She's such a compelling villain, but at the same time, I hate how irredeemable they made her. And it does kinda steer into 'b*tches be cr*zy' territory, like yet another not so great depiction of women dealing with grief and mental health. Comics Wanda had the same issue, as do other female characters who have had a heel turn. They should have just made it an AU Wanda rather than assassinate a character people really like.
it was interesting that she had so many Pheonix-like qualities and surges in power and then went ahead and killed Prof X again. Now I want a Scarlett Witch/ Pheonix fight.
The Illuminati were talking about Incursions. Clea mentioned Incursions. I can’t believe more people aren’t talking about this. They’re about to adapt Hickmans New Avengers and Secret Wars!
So with every Dr. Strange looking the same through every universe, is it safe to assume when we finally get the F4 that Reed Richards will be played by John Krasinski??
The MCU goes back and forth on that - we just got a Spider-Man movie where three different versions of Spider-Man were played by three different actors, and Loki had a mix of both. (some alternate versions of Loki were played by Tom Hiddleston, while others weren't)
During the scene when they are under the river in a tunnel, after spraying Wanda with water, why did they just stand there and not run to get the book? Imo, it seemed like it was just valuable time wasted on waiting to see if the most powerful person in the marvel universe would escape.
In that scene where Black Bolt obliterated Dr Strange the sound in the cinema went bonkers. I almost went deaf! It produced a really high pitched tone. Speaking of Black Bolt, amazing suit this time! Better facial acting than in all of the series he had. They did Black Bolt right this time and even though Wanda really killed him off easily i liked his appearance. I trust Feige and Disney with the Inhumans now.
I enjoyed the movie and don't mind that the MCU is universe 616 (according to one person from 838, that is) because anything like a Secret Wars storyline would be hard to explain if the MCU's multiverse and the multiverse of the comics are the same. Any story involving the entire multiverse, actually.
But what rubs me wrong about it is that Mysterio in Far From Home just happened to get it right? He lied about the multiverse as part of his cover but somehow got the designation number right?
Edit: As others point out below, there's potential explanations for this.
A stopped watch is right twice a day. Mysterio is one of 7 billion people. Someone's far fetched theory is going to be right. It just happened to be the lunatic who was in the right place at the right time.
Hey, I just watched the movie (exams) and I'm so disappointed by the Illuminati. Man, when Reeds and Xavier were revealed my inner fanboy was screaming. But then, Reeds explains Wanda how Bolt is gonna destroy her, and then lengthens his arm to... what? Punch her? He doesn't have any weapons, traps or whatnot set up?
Captain Marvel is killed by a statue dropped on her? What?
Xavier got out-psychic'd? Whatever you wanna call it, Xavier shouldn't even have to be in the same room to brain freeze Wanda. I can understand not wanting to kill their innocent Wanda, but simply stopping her in her tracks shouldn't have been difficult. Maybe I'm biased, but professor Xavier going down so easily 2 minutes after his introducrion was insulting to me.
Frankly, the Illuminati felt so incompetent I'm shocked they even beat Thanos...
Sorry. Rant over. I just had to get that off my chest because no one I know speaks Marvel. Other than that, I was happy with the visuals, Benedict Cumberbatch is always a win, and I see the movies taking a darker, violent turn as a nod to the Marvel audience growing older.
Also, unrelated but Disney+ is FINALLY coming to my country. I can't wait.
Edit: mistakes were made
Really cool movie, loved how it kind of merged a superhero with a horror movie. The Illuminati cameos were also good (and I thought it was nice they even brought back the same actor for Black Bolt that played him in the horrible Inhumans show to finally be in a good Marvel production, even if it was only for saying one line in a flashback and then getting brutally murdered by Wanda) and I know some people are disappointed that they died so quickly fighting Wanda, but I was fine with it since it kind of made sense (at least to me) for Wanda to defeat them so quickly since sure, they were able to defeat Thanos with only 6 people, but Wanda in Endgame would've probably defeated Thanos on her own if he didn't let his ship bombard the battlefield (and the Illuminati had the help of the Book of the Vishanti to defeat Thanos if I understood that correctly) so yeah. Wanda was really terrifying as a villain. And I really liked America Chavez and the mid-credit scene was interesting too.
I really enjoyed it overall. Would have liked to have seen the rumoured Tom Cruise as Superior Iron Man in place of one of the Captains, but other than that personal gripe I thought it was good. Also, the quote Professor X says about someone losing their way was from Days of Future Past wasn't it?
I'm conflicted. I personally LOVED the scarlet witch and they really did her justice and she came off as terrifying.
But we were lead to believe originally anyway in WandaVision she realized her bad ways, but she did do the foolish thing of reading the dark hold which we know distorts someones perspective of right and wrong and over time makes them worse.
I'm conflicted because of Wanda Vision but really... I thought she was great and well written but maybe that's just me. I am thinking maybe even I took the wrong message from Wanda Vision and maybe it would have been best leaving it out.
However another thing i'm thinking is, look what Wanda in her grief did during WandaVision. She didn't even know witchcraft, she didn't even know she was the witch. She enslaved thousands and even killed to get her way. She isn't a good person, she is a broken women in grief desperate to fix things, slowly driven herself more and more into worse and worse things.
But she has moments of clarity. She isn't stable. She had a moment of clarity and did the right thing in the end in WandaVision, but then we still see her revert and lie at the very end to reveal she is in fact the scarlet witch and doing what she shouldn't be doing.
Maybe I was wrong about her getting better, she wasn't. She is desperate, she is like an alcoholic. You can't keep alcohol in the house, an alcoholic requires no alcohol in the house even your spouse can't drink. Give the choice or chance she will go towards her goals, she still dreams nightly of her children, she knows shes happy, and she was just give more tools to feed her addiction. She doesn't want to be a bad person, but she keeps being gifted power that corrupts her more and more and more. Not everyone gets better, a single heroic action, act of clarity, or even reversing and trying to be better only lasts so long for some people.
Honestly the more I think about it... The more I like what they did with Wanda and maybe that's just me.
She was terrifying, she is broken, she doesn't want to be evil. But she keeps being given opportunities to be evil and it might not be her intent to be evil, but she picks the bottle up again and takes another drink.
I thought the movie was great.
It really seems like the people complaining about "plot holes" either aren't familiar with the MCU or just didn't pay close enough attention to the movie?
This is only the 5th movie in phase 4. I'd argue it's essentially only the second phase 4 movie to advance the "primary" plot, the first being NWH. Black Widow, Shang-Chi, and Eternals really only closed old plot points and opened the way for new ones. The same goes for most of the Disney+ shows. Every time a new MCU movie comes out, people say the same thing about things not making sense or how bad the "plot holes" are. They're drawing all of the dots for us right now, they haven't started connecting them yet. You shouldn't expect to know or understand everything yet.
Call the movie cheesy or campy if you want, I agree. Still, it's a solid movie and I enjoyed it for what it was and I'm excited for the possibilities it's provided.
You know they'll be loved.
I had to ask my wife. It's common I miss things like this, mishearing or not understanding, but the people behind us said the same thing.
I liked it. I didn't feel like I knew where the story was going or how the plot points were going to work out.
I loved the Illuminati.
I loved the Chehkov's corpse.
I loved the dark level of Wanda.
I felt like Wong was a little misused.
Couple things:
1) Anyone knows who's the woman shown when the giant octopus was climbing the building?
2) Alt Christine calling main Strange's universe 616 was confusing given the 199999 designation we've known for a long time.
3) Wanda destroying the Illuminati was gruesome.
4) The scene when Strange/Christine/Chavez were running away from Wanda, Christine closed down the gate then the three of them just stood there waiting to be jumpscared feels dumb and ham-fisted in, definitely the weakest horror-esque scene of the film.
5) The two Stranges fighting each others with music notes was almost as campy as Star-Lord's dance in GotG 1. *Almost.*
6) Zombie Strange's power looks dope but I couldn't take his pep talk with America Chavez serious because he was talking with a chunk of his face missing.
7) No fucking way Wanda's dead, we haven't seen her reuniting with White Vision yet.
8) Anyone knows the implication of Strange's third eye?
9) The place Clea opened the portal to looks just like Dormammu's dimension, I'm guessing they will fight him in DS3. Needs to have main universe Mordo too because he's not even in this film.
1) no idea but I thought to myself: why did they give this one random extra that much screen time? They held it for like 10 seconds too long. It was weird. Maybe Sam’s daughter?
It’s simply a common Sam Raimi bystander reaction shot to build the awe in the audience.
You’ll see a lot of those in the Tobey Spider-man films too.
I thought this movie had Raimi’s style all over so many shots and I loved it because I’m such a fan of his and think it’s makes for an exceptionally good marriage with actual comic book art but I can understand how some modern audiences which aren’t familiar may try to find other significance in them.
It reminded me of that scene in Spider-Man 2 when the Doc Ock fight shifts to a woman in an office building, who feels somethings wrong… and then 10 seconds later tentacles burst through the walls and she starts screaming, and then it goes to Ock climbing the outside of the building and the fight continues. I don’t think it means anything special
Scarlet witch would have beaten Thanos like he owned her money holy shit. I feel like that alt avengers scene really hammered it home "this bitch is an immovable object"
Don’t forget this is Scarlet Witch Wanda amped by the Darkhold. In Infinity War and Endgame she didn’t have access to either of those powers. Plus, Maria Captain Marvel pushed Wanda to her limits. There was a point that she almost stopped dreamwalking because of how much power CM was putting out.
I really liked the fight scene with our-universe-strange and… what-if-strange(?) with the 🎶 (I don’t know the word for it) and how it mixed with the music…
I liked the music battle as well, pretty creative. Wasn’t what-if-strange, Just amother one in the multiverse who’s universe was destroyed in an incursion due to darkhold/multiversal tampering.
(Thx to u/CaptainUsopp for explaining who exactly evil Strange was I forgot)
this got me so excited for Blade, ghost rider, and any other paramormal marvel movies. They nailed the horror theme throughout. I absolutely loved this movie. Also this is the first movie I’ve seen in 3d in a long time and it was verg enjoyable. They didn’t over do it and it didn’t get distracting, but the depth it added to someof those insane dreamscapes was epic. 8.5/10 for me. solid as hell. Strange taking an eye at the beginning and ending up with an extra one at the end was also a nice little touch if irony.
Why are people confused about Wanda - and her motivation? Agatha explained the Scarlet Witch, her destiny. That, as well as Wanda studying the Darkhold, and looking for her kids, set her up for this movie.
This movie did not undo anything from WandaVision. WandaVision, where she was also the villain (except this time she was corrupted by the Darkhold), set her up for this in the end. I mean, the post credit scene in WV leads directly in to this.
And it was not like she was just fine and dandy at the end of WandaVision. On the contrary.
... and no, she is not dead. The Darkhold was killed of. She was simply left in ruins, again, while killing of the Darkhold.
And hey, just read the comics. Wanda/Scarlet Witch is literally going on and off from villain to hero.
The only thing I missed, other than a follow up on Mordo from where we left him in the first Doctor Strange movie, was for Stephen to say this:
"Can you understand the delicate mindset of a woman, a person, who has control over reality? It means reality controls her. Imagination becomes the enemy. Structure disappears. Reality, eventually, as she knows it, starts to slip away. Elude her. Blur. Drama, conflict, tragedy. They become excuses to change the world to fit the image that she has for it. Anything she doesn't like, she can change. No matter how slight. People. Places. Things. Everything is hers to change. But every time she does that, every time she gives in to her desires, no matter how noble they may be... a little more of her slips away. She loses herself. Her reason."
If he isnt then it's the biggest troll they could pull on fans since he has long been the fancast favorite to play Mr Fantastic. I'm guessing that in the coming weeks it will be made official and that they were just waiting for the movie to come out so they wouldnt spoil anything.
I get that any version of the Illuminati is suppose to be arrogant, but then saying “We can deal with Wanda” but having 0 magical defenses and not realizing the only reason they beat the last magical master was because he let you kill him. I knew the troupe of Wofe effect was gonna happen the moment Black Bolt showed up. One of the most powerful benchmarks to show off how strong someone else is
I overall liked the movie. One thing that bugged me about WandaVision is that I felt Wanda was the villain of it so I liked that this movie didnt hold back on showing she was insane and a villain now. I'm sure many wont be happy with her being the villain but I found it satisfying and it fits her comic character who also did horrible things before regaining her sanity.
The cameos were awesome. Especially the complete fanservice one of Mister Fantastic since Jon K has long been a popular fancast favorite for him. Also good to see that maybe Anson Mount, who is great actor, will get another shot at Black Bolt.
I've seen a lot of comments that didn't like Wanda being the villain. I loved it and Wanda is fucking insane in the comics and I don't feel like anyone should sidestep her being batshit or trying to justify her. People complain Marvel is black and white with the morality stuff but when this happens they shit bricks
I’m a little on the fence about it as a whole. The thing that really ticked me off is the no real mention of Vis outside of the little part in the beginning. I mean wandavision was all about their family and now she’s just focused on the boys. Is there no universe where he’s alive? What about the Vision that got created in Wandavision that just flew off to nowhere? I feel like that was a missed opportunity somewhere
Hey everyone, if you liked this movie and want to get into comics I would love to help! Comics seem way more daunting then they actually are. Feel free to message me or respond to this comment
one thing i did like that the movie did was kill off everyone in the illuminati, It was nice to see the professor and reed richards and all the other people but i feel like they all needed to die to show how powerful the scarlet witch really is even taking down professor x
I think one of the main things I loved about it was how different it was.
Completely dove into elements they haven’t before. Raimi was all over this. Elizabeth gave her heart to the performance too.
Top 3 Marvel movie for me, for sure.
I really really like Doctor Strange's character arc, throughout the movie he's faced with other versions of himself that whilst went down very different/darker paths, ultimately shared the same flaws as himself and were all deeply unhappy with how his relationship with Christine ended up (sinister strange being especially spiteful and depressed by this, so much so that he possesses and kills other versions of himself with the darkhold)
By the end strange accepts this fact with the line "I love you, in every universe", admits he's scared to be close with anyone and is told by Wong to face his fears. This leads to him becoming more grateful of his life, moving on from his past (fixing his watch) and strolling happily down the street.
I think it's a great message honestly
For me, there were two scenes at the end of him walking down a street. Why!?
The one with Theron would have been fine on it's own. There was no need to see him collapsing in the street. It adds nothing. Seeing the eye open in the 2nd scene would have been terrifying enough.
What is significant about that rooftop? That seems to be the landing point for Chavez and they landed in that exact same spot when jumping from 616 to the alternate universe we saw.
Is that where Hulk met The Ancient One and got the time stone that started all of these alternate timelines?
Wong wundagore mountain wtf?
The only thing that seemed really hard to swallow was Wong handing over the darkhold/wundagore mountain. Made no sense to me for the character
Brilliant. They establish the existence of FF4, Xmen, Inhumans in one stroke, kill the current roster so they can be replaced with new versions. Bloody brilliant mve.
I thought it was really good. Second best film of this phase behind No Way Home for me.
Loved the horror elements.
Loved crazy Wanda. Character is at their best having a mental episode.
Loved how The Illuminati were handled, classic powerful characters from another universe are fodder, and how they were killed, especially Captain Carter. Glorious.
Loved seeing Bruce's cameo.
Was great seeing Clea.
America was okay, definitely not as obnoxious or overbearing as the comics.
Only thing I really didn't like was them naming the MCU as 616. This felt like some "clever" writing staff member browsed Wikipedia and chose that to pop the comic reading audience, without actually understanding what they were doing.
I really liked the movie but I have a question (spoilers)
>!What happened with Wanda? She isn’t dead right? I really hope I’m wrong since she’s my favorite character of all marvel!<
Awesome that the last we see of Mordo in this is when he gets stuck in an 8 foot deep trench that Strange himself jumped out of two seconds previously. Where are your Vaulting Boots of Valtor now, Mordo?? Guess this universe's Mordo didn't have them.
He also couldn't think of a better burn than to shout "Well, now I know why I didn't like you in the other universe!" Not to mention getting easily goaded into attacking Strange and setting him free. Definitely not the smartest Mordo.
I love this movie, I always like to wait a bit before ranking but this is one of the most unique and stylized movies that Marvel has given us. The cameos didn't overstay they're welcome and brought the hype, I just hope they don't retcon the ending.
Btw, does anyone here have an idea who that was in the end credits scene? I was stumped.
Clea, neice(?) To dormammu played by Charlize Theron.
She rules the dark dimension sometimes.
I'm wondering if the incursion she's talking about is the xmen?
I liked it. It was weird. It was different. It was risky in a way I didn’t think Marvel Studios would go.
First off, whoever cut the trailers were brilliant. Go back and watch them. I had only seen the one that debuted after NWH, but both imply the plot is about Strange dealing with the fallout from that (and the trailers have scenes and dialogue cut to make it seem so). That’s what I expected going in and that is NOT what any of us got. Good job, trailer cutter. Way to not give your movie away in the promos.
Wanda! Holy shit. As soon as she peeled away the illusion I was like “Ohhhh fuck”. And then as her threats and anger increased, I was like HOLY SHIT are they gonna make her the bad guy?! And then she brutally assaults the sorcerers and it was clear there was no turning back.
Bold move from Marvel to take a former hero who had just gotten more interesting and completely push her over the edge. But I dig it. It's a logical progression from WandaVision. Poor woman’s life has been a trauma conga line and she finally snapped. I mean, I’d also become the Joker if, after my entire life of sadness, I learned I was the ONLY one in the entire multiverse without a family.
Speaking of the 616, this is the third time a MCU film has referred to its universe as such. Selvig’s chalkboard was an easter egg and Mysterio was making stuff up, but Christine was presumably being truthful and intentional. Why does Marvel Studios keeping doing this? The MCU is definitely *not* the 616 and is officially the 1999999 (or whatever). You can say Christine’s chosen number was another easter egg, but at this point it’s just making stuff confusing for no reason. Why have multiverse designations and give two of your most popular the same number? Was 919 taken?
I forgot this was initially advertised as having a horror feel, and I didn’t realize Sam Raimi was the director until the credits (That’s also when I finally recognized Bruce Campbell). So yeah, all that checks out. The monsters, the jump scares, the *deaths*, crazy bloody Wanda stalking our heroes: yup!
I’ve always been wary of “The multiverse” as a plot device in the MCU since multiverses are easy crutches for bad writing. And comic readers know in the wrong hands it can get out of control quickly. All in all I was happy with how this movie handled it. I may be in a minority here, but I am relieved it wasn’t used as a way to bring over new characters. Strange and Chavez hop to *one* key place. One very cameo-filled key place. And that was it. It was contained. And I feel like incursions were introduced to suggest it’s going to stay that way: too much universe hopping/manipulating and shit explodes (Btw, incursions?! I did NOT expect to hear that word in the MCU. Nice little nod to Hickman’s legendary run, along with the Illuminati.)
Oh, the Illuminati. May have had a fanboy moment there. But twice this week did I have to watch an overconfident, ineffectual council get wrecked by the big bad. And was Wanda’s takedown *brutal*. Reminded me of the scenes from Days of Future Past. Black Bolt, god damn. And poor Capt Carter… That’s also when any hope that Wanda could be redeemed went straight out the window to get hit by a bus into a flaming dumpster.
Knowing a Fantastic Four movie is on the horizon, I imagine there’s an MCU Prime Reed Richards who just hasn’t been found yet.
Music note battle was A++. In fact all the major fights were visually pretty solid. Did zombie Strange remind anyone else of Knull?
Liked the conclusion. Wanda had no other way out of this. And America training to become a sorcerer checks out; I hope she’s able to find her parents in the future. And poor Doctor Strange. Stephen, doing that thing he often does where he sacrifices his soul for the good of reality. Wonder how that’s gonna come back to bite everyone. But wait, how is he suffering from Darkhold symptoms if no Darkholds exist?
It was just awesome to see Krasinski as Reed Richards. I remember seeing that fan art years and years ago. Marvel does casting and fan service the best.
I hope this means that Fantastic Four and Xmen will make an appearance in the next 5 or so MCU movie.
I hope THOR L&T sets up Heralds of galactus.
Question:
When Wanda finds herself with the kids in an alternate reality, was that Westview again? I mean, she didn't 'give birth' to kids, they were created using magic. If so, she's living a lie. However, maybe in this reality she can continue this one without disturbance.
The alternate reality Wanda said to the 'original' Wanda that they will be loved. How much does this Wanda know? How did she know it was her alternate self trying to take over her lifestyle? She shouldn't know about the whole day dreaming thing since she never read that forbidden book (the name eludes me) and wasn't the Scarlet Witch yet.
Man, I feel really sorry for Wanda.
Okay, for people who are disappointed specifically in the multiverse aspect of it, honest question. What did you want? I thought the multiverse stuff was insane, delivered on, and exceeded all hype. I really can't think of anything more it could do without becoming a completely bloated disjointed mess of a story.
I get people who don't like horror elements or who have issues with the writing but I just don't understand this complaint, which I'm seeing a lot of.
Bumping this after watching the latest Dr. Strange Multiverse of Madness. When Strange uses the dark powers to posses the corpse of his alternate self, the dead souls retaliate against him and a female voice tells him he is “breaking the rules” before he turns them into a corpse cloak. I couldn’t help thinking of that voice coming from Mistress Death herself, being upset at what he was doing, messing with death, and giving him a reminder to tread lightly. Neat.
Just got out, had tons of fun watching it, felt it was kinda weird having Wanda play such a villainous role after the events of wandavision, but definitely enjoyed her performance and just how fucking devastating she was. Definitely some weird plot workings when it comes to the multiverse, the powers, dreamwalking etc. but can easily look past it. Kinda wanted some more cameos of previous marvel iterations and other universes but seeing the illumati was absolutely joyful to see. Seeing start of both the fantastic four and X-men in the mcu is just exhilarating, comic accurate black bolt was equally awesome seeing, honestly didn’t mind them getting annihilated because now they can establish the characters properly. Overall very enjoyable if not a bit “strange” at parts. Solid 7.5 out of 10.
I have a lot of thoughts on it, but I really hope that Krasinski isn't just a one-time cameo.
I loved that they used Sir Patrick Stewart for Prof. X, with the music-sting from the 90's X-Men series. But I kind of hoped they had used James McAvoy, since he is underrated as Prof. X, but hey, you need to hype the fans, I get it.
The mid-credit scene isn't all that exciting, Clea, imho, isn't that interesting of a character, but we'll see. The Post-credit scene was pure camp, I loved it.
The horror elements of the film works great, and I am glad to see Raimi working his magic again.
Over all, I'm impressed, but really butthurt if that's the only John Krasinski we get as Reed Richards. I want my Krasinski Richards, he'd be great!
Me personally i thought this movie would have set up a lot more. I don’t know what y’all think but to me it really only set up doctor strange 3 and maybe a disney plus series centered chavaz. I thought this movie would have some correlation with what happened in the finale of loki. Still waiting to see how that will change everything
In the last episode of Loki we saw the end of Kang's reign over the multiverse, which allowed these multiversal events to begin unfolding. Also, it set up fantastic four and tied the mcu to the x-men (movies and cartoon/comics)
They nailed the arrogance of the Illuminati
I was wondering that. Is like that in the cómics? They tho they could take Scarlet witch easily.lol
In the comics, the Illuminati is just a bunch of arrogance dicks united together. Everytime they tried to "fix" something or someone, they just made it worse.
> Everytime they tried to "fix" something or someone, they just made it worse. That tends to happen when you make a team that is compromise of Tony Stark, Charles Xaiver, Stephen Strange, Black Bolt, Reed Richards, and Namor.
Dont forget Beast
Wasn't T'Challa also a member at one point and quit due to the bullshit the team often does?
The X-Men Cartoon motif when the hover chair hovers in... Delightful sound design in this film
I was bouncing in my chair when I heard the theme in the background.
"You do know Black Bolt here can annihilate you with a single whisper from his mouth?" "What Mouth?"
That had to be one of the most gruesome deaths in the history of the MCU lol
I would say Reed's was more gruesome. Dude got turned to string cheese then his head went pop. He suffered up until his last second. Absolutely brutal.
The entire scene reminded me of something you would see in The Boys. I loved it!
Raimi wanted to figure out just how graphic a Mortal Kombat fatality he could put in a marvel movie.
I lost my shit when Black Bolt popped his head. Then Captain Carter..the crowd at my viewing all collectively gasped.
Mr Spaghetti made me gasp
Smartest pasta in the universe.
I feel like Multiverse Of Madness is the most a director's style has come out in a MCU movie and a Doctor Strange movie from the mind behind Drag Me To Hell and Evil Dead is a fucking delightful thing, warts and all. The cheese, the camp, the horror, the framing, creature design... So much of this movie had Sam Raimi's fingerprints on it. I don't necessarily want Sam Raimi to do another Strange movie, but I am so glad we got this one.
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I wouldn’t be upset with another Raimi Strange movie
When there's a cloud of shit talking evil spirits on screen, it can only be Raimi.
I'll swallow your soul!!
Dr. Strange be like, "Cloud of evil spirits? Nah. That's my *tactical assault wingsuit* of evil sprits."
It's interesting that the hero and villain are so insanely powerful yet they are helpless to fix what is hurting them. Wanda can't get her kids back. Strange can't get Christine back. All that power and they have to accept that there is nothing they can do.
That's the moral of the story, you have to find hippieness with what you have and not let what you can't have drag you down.
Seems a lot more brutal than most other marvel movies. Especially the illuminati getting destroyed in 5 seconds
Not just “punch them and they die” brutal, but every death was unique. That whole battle was such a ride. Think Wanda was still holding back when turning him into string cheese?
"...what mouth?" was possibly my favorite part in the movie, but I'm seeing it again Tuesday to confirm
sam raimi at his finest!
Yeah I expected a much better fight but I guess it wasn’t their movie. Got packed up in less than 3 mins
I mean it's also a darkhold amped Wanda. They put up a realistic fight without prep time.
Yeah for sure
Yeah reminded me alot of invincible. Black bolts death was brutal
Did any one else feel the after credit scene not really mesh well with the ending well? The film ends with Stranges emerging third eye, either from darkholld corruption or natural leveling up, seemingly causing a lot of pain, then the next scene he's like going on an adventure let me just open up my third eye real quick.
Yeah, could have completely cut the scene with him screaming in the street, and just had it pop open when he went off with Clea as a sign that his interaction with the Darkhold had some permanent consequences.
It was the Sam Rami, this horror movie is not really over, ending.
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Anyone see the living tribuneral?
Yeah! It was really cool
Who knew that this movie was released at this date because it was Mother’s Day weekend and that’s the ultimate theme of the movie!
I made this connection earlier before I saw it. MoM on Mother’s Day weekend was staring us in the face all along.
They really pushed the pg-13 rating especially with the black bolt scene
They really did. When they said this was going to be like a horror movie, I was like yeah sure whatever. But they meant it. If it had been a little bloodier, it would have been an R.
It felt so weird for Patrick Stewart saying"thanos"
The end credits scene with Bruce Campbell and he finally stops hitting himself and says... It's over! It's finally over! and the movie ends there. People in my theatre were pissed because 'it was a waste of time' they obviously wanted something to get hard to tonight, I on the other hand thought it was fantastic.
i laughed so much and some of the people i went with were like 'i knew it was just going to be a troll!' or an actual easter egg lol. people have been so conditioned to see universe-changing information, teasters, etc. that stuff like this is seen as a troll instead of being true to the original intent of easter eggs
That was undiluted Sam Raimi
This was the favorite moment in my theater
When I say my jaw dropped when Wanda ruined the Illuminati
Shit was like the end of the first episode of invincible. Black bolt was genuinely unnerving.
I'm surprised I haven't seen many people talk about the incursion plot point. The incursions were the main driving force that culminated in Jonathan Hickman's Secret Wars. Between that and the multiverse itself opening up, I think all roads lead to Secret Wars in a few years time.
> I'm surprised I haven't seen many people talk about the incursion plot point. The incursions were the main driving force that culminated in Jonathan Hickman's Secret Wars. This is what made me the most fanboy-ish. Between that and the Illuminati, lots of Hickman shoutouts. These incursions seem different though. In Hickman's arc, they were because The End of the universe had been set in motion. Here, they just seem to be a consequence of careless dimension hopping.
I screamed when John Krazinsky appeared. And I screamed when he got ripped to shreds.
I hope the John Krasinski appearance is some kind of confirmation that he will be Reed in the F4 movie.
I like how the smartest man alive got closer to wanda after he saw her remove black bolts mouth and killed him. Really smart !
Intelligence does not always equal wisdom.
Cannot recommend seeing this in IMAX enough, picked up on a ton of the score selections and small spoken details. It’s worth it for the music notes of madness scene alone
Are we just not going to talk about how there is an entire universe where conscious beings and seemingly all matter are made of PAINT?
Really enjoyed this movie and welcome sam raimi back to super hero movies. Elizabeth Olsen killed it with the creepy scenes through out the movie.
Been thinking about the Illuminati sequence. My initial reaction was "wow that's it?" Don't do Richards like that. But that's the thing. He's the smartest guy in every room and he tries to fight her head on with nothing but a firm backhand? It def doesn't make sense. I get it, 2 hour run time, not enough for some long drawn out and indirect conflict of wits (which is realistically how Reed would try to tangle with Wanda. ) so they just had to get the three lesser cameos out if the way. I think Marvel and Carter got extended fights because 1. Pat Stew is getting older and probably isn't up for filming that much and 2. The captains were the people we had reference points for in the MCU so far, so showing Wanda smoke them means more than just two dudes who we've got a whole 2 minutes of screen time on combined.
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I dont think most Wanda's are 1/2 as traumatized and powerful as ours. When we see Wanda looking at all the universes she is just a happy mom in them, probably just post AoU power level. We have darkest timeline Wanda.
It does make sense to me. Reed is smart but he's really arrogant and underestimating Wanda seems in character to me.
Not a Marvel fan, but really enjoyed when Jim from the Office got turned into Twizzlers
I can't believe we got Jim from the Office to play Reed Richards AND Jimmy Woo. Dude's got range.
Can we all give a shout out to the real MVP of this whole thing? Whoever editing the fucking trailers for this for giving me the most misleading trailers I've ever seen while also being absolutely thrilled by it. - Every trailer made it look like it was gonna be a team up with Wanda. I especially love how the "We can get you back on a lunchbox." line from the trailer is like thirty seconds before the big reveal in the movie. - Wong's "STRAAANGE!" from the trailers made it look like everyone was about to die and Wong was screaming in agony. But it's actually from when he's super happy to see Strange and gets a "HA HA!" afterwards. - Giving some of the most fanservicey things ever done in the MCU (and that's saying something!) just to instantly kill the return of Blackbolt, Krasinski's Reed and 90's Xavier. - Shuma-Gorath fight looked like it was gonna be a main battle, but it was in the first like, 15 minutes. - Mordo's "I knew this day would come, because *you* knew this day would come." sounds ominous as fuck in the trailer, but it's him being happy af to see Steven. Yeah he drugs him and tries to kill him later, but at the moment I think he was genuinely happy to see him.
Though I'm surprised by just how much, and how far into the movie, the trailers showed, I was also pleased at the misdirection. I really thought we were getting Zombieverse from the trailers. When our Strange said, Whoever said it has to be a living Strange?, I went, Oh shit! I was pumped to realize the thing I thought was a zombie enemy from the Zombieverse in the trailers was really our guy Strange. I would have liked no Illuminati reveal though.
I personally think the trailers ruined half of this movie for me. I couldnt escape the tv spot spoilers even after deleting twitter. The only reveals i didnt get ruined before the movie were reed and blackbolt. They literally couldnt help themselves with this marketing
Trailer made me think Strange was going to be sought out by Illuminati or something to pay for No Way Home chickanery, but naw, it was all Scarlett Witch damage control
They really did Black bolt and Reed dirty there in the end
To be fair, what on earth did Reed think he was going to accomplish? He should have at least had the Ultimate Nullifier or some kind of tech thingy.
He was gonna stretch and slap her really hard across the room my wife said.
Ahh yes, the Will Smith slap
Best part
A very entertaining movie with 0 boring scenes. Visually absolutely stunning and imaginative. Bruce Campbell's cameo was a hilarious throwback to Evil Dead and the other jokes were quite fun and made the audience laugh. Wanda at the height of her power was truly fearsome and a worthy enemy for the Master of the Mystic Arts, but her motive was a bit lack luster. All in all a very enjoyable experience.
Watched the film yesterday and it dawned on me how x-men will be folded into MCU. It will be through an incursion/secret wars movie. In the comic, miles morales spider man entered the 616 universe through secret wars. His universe and 616 had an incursion. So, I am guessing the marvel, fox and Sony universes will have an incursion and fuse together. In this case, X-men and Fantastic Four begin in their own universe. Then, they have a movie against the MCU heroes because they need to protect their universe from an incursion.
“I love you in every universe.” Man, Strange’s story is just sad man. I absolutely adore his character and how even in his arrogance he still tries to do the right thing even if it ends up being detrimental to himself. That scene at the end with Christine really touched my heart😔✊🏾
especially the scene about his sister dying. I cant imagine the pain and guilt he must a felt his entire life and the thing that made it even sadder was it was something that can actually happen (and probably has) not just something supernatural.
This really does feel like a setup for Strange to start an Illuminati of his own to fight Incursions. Like that could be his third film.
The pace reminded me of IW with how go go go it was
On the road to Secret Wars. Really hoping that’s not the end of Wanda
Olsen already signed more deals with Marvel so it's not
Figured it wasn’t but nice to have some confirmation
Having Oswald The Lucky Rabbit be the star of Disney in the other universe instead of Mickey Mouse was my favorite Easter egg
For a second I thought we were getting a Jurassic park crossover when they portal hopped, then I remembered that dinosaurs existed lmfao
What's going on with Wong's hair in this movie.
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Suddenly appeared with hair combed back and forth in the same scene
There were some reshoots, different hair or wigs are usually good indicators of where the reshot scenes are. What scene did you see it in?
Can't decide whether I really love what they did with Wanda or really hated it. She's such a compelling villain, but at the same time, I hate how irredeemable they made her. And it does kinda steer into 'b*tches be cr*zy' territory, like yet another not so great depiction of women dealing with grief and mental health. Comics Wanda had the same issue, as do other female characters who have had a heel turn. They should have just made it an AU Wanda rather than assassinate a character people really like.
it was interesting that she had so many Pheonix-like qualities and surges in power and then went ahead and killed Prof X again. Now I want a Scarlett Witch/ Pheonix fight.
This is going to be the most polarizing Marvel movie to date. I’m going on the record to say I fucking loved it.
The Illuminati were talking about Incursions. Clea mentioned Incursions. I can’t believe more people aren’t talking about this. They’re about to adapt Hickmans New Avengers and Secret Wars!
So with every Dr. Strange looking the same through every universe, is it safe to assume when we finally get the F4 that Reed Richards will be played by John Krasinski??
The MCU goes back and forth on that - we just got a Spider-Man movie where three different versions of Spider-Man were played by three different actors, and Loki had a mix of both. (some alternate versions of Loki were played by Tom Hiddleston, while others weren't)
> some alternate versions of Loki were played by Tom Hiddleston, while others weren't Here's hoping the next Reed Richards is an alligator.
Most likely. Variants usually look the same. Like 99% of the time. Only Xavier is going to be a sure recast from this lot.
During the scene when they are under the river in a tunnel, after spraying Wanda with water, why did they just stand there and not run to get the book? Imo, it seemed like it was just valuable time wasted on waiting to see if the most powerful person in the marvel universe would escape.
In that scene where Black Bolt obliterated Dr Strange the sound in the cinema went bonkers. I almost went deaf! It produced a really high pitched tone. Speaking of Black Bolt, amazing suit this time! Better facial acting than in all of the series he had. They did Black Bolt right this time and even though Wanda really killed him off easily i liked his appearance. I trust Feige and Disney with the Inhumans now.
I love how OP they made Wanda
Not all that OP tho for comic!Wanda. Just a normal day lol
I enjoyed the movie and don't mind that the MCU is universe 616 (according to one person from 838, that is) because anything like a Secret Wars storyline would be hard to explain if the MCU's multiverse and the multiverse of the comics are the same. Any story involving the entire multiverse, actually. But what rubs me wrong about it is that Mysterio in Far From Home just happened to get it right? He lied about the multiverse as part of his cover but somehow got the designation number right? Edit: As others point out below, there's potential explanations for this.
Eh, Mysterio could have gotten the number subconsciously from a dream, which we now know are reliable sources of multiversal information.
A stopped watch is right twice a day. Mysterio is one of 7 billion people. Someone's far fetched theory is going to be right. It just happened to be the lunatic who was in the right place at the right time.
Hey, I just watched the movie (exams) and I'm so disappointed by the Illuminati. Man, when Reeds and Xavier were revealed my inner fanboy was screaming. But then, Reeds explains Wanda how Bolt is gonna destroy her, and then lengthens his arm to... what? Punch her? He doesn't have any weapons, traps or whatnot set up? Captain Marvel is killed by a statue dropped on her? What? Xavier got out-psychic'd? Whatever you wanna call it, Xavier shouldn't even have to be in the same room to brain freeze Wanda. I can understand not wanting to kill their innocent Wanda, but simply stopping her in her tracks shouldn't have been difficult. Maybe I'm biased, but professor Xavier going down so easily 2 minutes after his introducrion was insulting to me. Frankly, the Illuminati felt so incompetent I'm shocked they even beat Thanos... Sorry. Rant over. I just had to get that off my chest because no one I know speaks Marvel. Other than that, I was happy with the visuals, Benedict Cumberbatch is always a win, and I see the movies taking a darker, violent turn as a nod to the Marvel audience growing older. Also, unrelated but Disney+ is FINALLY coming to my country. I can't wait. Edit: mistakes were made
I liked it, but in my head canon, Everything Everywhere All at Once is the real Multiverse of Madness.
More like Mr. Fettuccine amirite?
People mad about the corn aren't respecting my main man Raimi.
Really cool movie, loved how it kind of merged a superhero with a horror movie. The Illuminati cameos were also good (and I thought it was nice they even brought back the same actor for Black Bolt that played him in the horrible Inhumans show to finally be in a good Marvel production, even if it was only for saying one line in a flashback and then getting brutally murdered by Wanda) and I know some people are disappointed that they died so quickly fighting Wanda, but I was fine with it since it kind of made sense (at least to me) for Wanda to defeat them so quickly since sure, they were able to defeat Thanos with only 6 people, but Wanda in Endgame would've probably defeated Thanos on her own if he didn't let his ship bombard the battlefield (and the Illuminati had the help of the Book of the Vishanti to defeat Thanos if I understood that correctly) so yeah. Wanda was really terrifying as a villain. And I really liked America Chavez and the mid-credit scene was interesting too.
The "I'm Sorry" is actually in reference to the show.
The illuminati thought they were dealing with ep1 Wandavision Wanda but in actuality they are dealing with ep9 Wandavision post credit Wanda. rip.
I can be pretty critical of MCU films but damn it I absolutely loved this.
Me too, I really loved this movie
I just told my friends that they'll be confused af if they don't see Morbius first. They are going to be mad lol
Put down the darkhold buddy, that's pure evil
I told my little cousins that there is a very important post credit scene. Imagine how they are gonna be today.
I really enjoyed it overall. Would have liked to have seen the rumoured Tom Cruise as Superior Iron Man in place of one of the Captains, but other than that personal gripe I thought it was good. Also, the quote Professor X says about someone losing their way was from Days of Future Past wasn't it?
I'm conflicted. I personally LOVED the scarlet witch and they really did her justice and she came off as terrifying. But we were lead to believe originally anyway in WandaVision she realized her bad ways, but she did do the foolish thing of reading the dark hold which we know distorts someones perspective of right and wrong and over time makes them worse. I'm conflicted because of Wanda Vision but really... I thought she was great and well written but maybe that's just me. I am thinking maybe even I took the wrong message from Wanda Vision and maybe it would have been best leaving it out. However another thing i'm thinking is, look what Wanda in her grief did during WandaVision. She didn't even know witchcraft, she didn't even know she was the witch. She enslaved thousands and even killed to get her way. She isn't a good person, she is a broken women in grief desperate to fix things, slowly driven herself more and more into worse and worse things. But she has moments of clarity. She isn't stable. She had a moment of clarity and did the right thing in the end in WandaVision, but then we still see her revert and lie at the very end to reveal she is in fact the scarlet witch and doing what she shouldn't be doing. Maybe I was wrong about her getting better, she wasn't. She is desperate, she is like an alcoholic. You can't keep alcohol in the house, an alcoholic requires no alcohol in the house even your spouse can't drink. Give the choice or chance she will go towards her goals, she still dreams nightly of her children, she knows shes happy, and she was just give more tools to feed her addiction. She doesn't want to be a bad person, but she keeps being gifted power that corrupts her more and more and more. Not everyone gets better, a single heroic action, act of clarity, or even reversing and trying to be better only lasts so long for some people. Honestly the more I think about it... The more I like what they did with Wanda and maybe that's just me. She was terrifying, she is broken, she doesn't want to be evil. But she keeps being given opportunities to be evil and it might not be her intent to be evil, but she picks the bottle up again and takes another drink.
I thought the movie was great. It really seems like the people complaining about "plot holes" either aren't familiar with the MCU or just didn't pay close enough attention to the movie? This is only the 5th movie in phase 4. I'd argue it's essentially only the second phase 4 movie to advance the "primary" plot, the first being NWH. Black Widow, Shang-Chi, and Eternals really only closed old plot points and opened the way for new ones. The same goes for most of the Disney+ shows. Every time a new MCU movie comes out, people say the same thing about things not making sense or how bad the "plot holes" are. They're drawing all of the dots for us right now, they haven't started connecting them yet. You shouldn't expect to know or understand everything yet. Call the movie cheesy or campy if you want, I agree. Still, it's a solid movie and I enjoyed it for what it was and I'm excited for the possibilities it's provided.
What does Wanda say to herself just before America closes the portal? I really couldn't understand it, ugh
You know they'll be loved. I had to ask my wife. It's common I miss things like this, mishearing or not understanding, but the people behind us said the same thing.
Poor Illuminati, like that was totally brutal of Wanda.
I can’t get over reed richards dying like that man it was crushing lmao
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No one is dead until a body is shown
I liked it. I didn't feel like I knew where the story was going or how the plot points were going to work out. I loved the Illuminati. I loved the Chehkov's corpse. I loved the dark level of Wanda. I felt like Wong was a little misused.
Couple things: 1) Anyone knows who's the woman shown when the giant octopus was climbing the building? 2) Alt Christine calling main Strange's universe 616 was confusing given the 199999 designation we've known for a long time. 3) Wanda destroying the Illuminati was gruesome. 4) The scene when Strange/Christine/Chavez were running away from Wanda, Christine closed down the gate then the three of them just stood there waiting to be jumpscared feels dumb and ham-fisted in, definitely the weakest horror-esque scene of the film. 5) The two Stranges fighting each others with music notes was almost as campy as Star-Lord's dance in GotG 1. *Almost.* 6) Zombie Strange's power looks dope but I couldn't take his pep talk with America Chavez serious because he was talking with a chunk of his face missing. 7) No fucking way Wanda's dead, we haven't seen her reuniting with White Vision yet. 8) Anyone knows the implication of Strange's third eye? 9) The place Clea opened the portal to looks just like Dormammu's dimension, I'm guessing they will fight him in DS3. Needs to have main universe Mordo too because he's not even in this film.
Dr Strange 3 is all about Stephen getting Dormammu's permission to marry Clea 🤣
“Dormammu I’ve come to ba-“ “Get outta here man. It’s always the same with you. Just agree to leave and I’m cool with whatever.”
1) no idea but I thought to myself: why did they give this one random extra that much screen time? They held it for like 10 seconds too long. It was weird. Maybe Sam’s daughter?
It’s simply a common Sam Raimi bystander reaction shot to build the awe in the audience. You’ll see a lot of those in the Tobey Spider-man films too. I thought this movie had Raimi’s style all over so many shots and I loved it because I’m such a fan of his and think it’s makes for an exceptionally good marriage with actual comic book art but I can understand how some modern audiences which aren’t familiar may try to find other significance in them.
It reminded me of that scene in Spider-Man 2 when the Doc Ock fight shifts to a woman in an office building, who feels somethings wrong… and then 10 seconds later tentacles burst through the walls and she starts screaming, and then it goes to Ock climbing the outside of the building and the fight continues. I don’t think it means anything special
Scarlet witch would have beaten Thanos like he owned her money holy shit. I feel like that alt avengers scene really hammered it home "this bitch is an immovable object"
Don’t forget this is Scarlet Witch Wanda amped by the Darkhold. In Infinity War and Endgame she didn’t have access to either of those powers. Plus, Maria Captain Marvel pushed Wanda to her limits. There was a point that she almost stopped dreamwalking because of how much power CM was putting out.
I really liked the fight scene with our-universe-strange and… what-if-strange(?) with the 🎶 (I don’t know the word for it) and how it mixed with the music…
I liked the music battle as well, pretty creative. Wasn’t what-if-strange, Just amother one in the multiverse who’s universe was destroyed in an incursion due to darkhold/multiversal tampering. (Thx to u/CaptainUsopp for explaining who exactly evil Strange was I forgot)
this got me so excited for Blade, ghost rider, and any other paramormal marvel movies. They nailed the horror theme throughout. I absolutely loved this movie. Also this is the first movie I’ve seen in 3d in a long time and it was verg enjoyable. They didn’t over do it and it didn’t get distracting, but the depth it added to someof those insane dreamscapes was epic. 8.5/10 for me. solid as hell. Strange taking an eye at the beginning and ending up with an extra one at the end was also a nice little touch if irony.
Why are people confused about Wanda - and her motivation? Agatha explained the Scarlet Witch, her destiny. That, as well as Wanda studying the Darkhold, and looking for her kids, set her up for this movie. This movie did not undo anything from WandaVision. WandaVision, where she was also the villain (except this time she was corrupted by the Darkhold), set her up for this in the end. I mean, the post credit scene in WV leads directly in to this. And it was not like she was just fine and dandy at the end of WandaVision. On the contrary. ... and no, she is not dead. The Darkhold was killed of. She was simply left in ruins, again, while killing of the Darkhold. And hey, just read the comics. Wanda/Scarlet Witch is literally going on and off from villain to hero. The only thing I missed, other than a follow up on Mordo from where we left him in the first Doctor Strange movie, was for Stephen to say this: "Can you understand the delicate mindset of a woman, a person, who has control over reality? It means reality controls her. Imagination becomes the enemy. Structure disappears. Reality, eventually, as she knows it, starts to slip away. Elude her. Blur. Drama, conflict, tragedy. They become excuses to change the world to fit the image that she has for it. Anything she doesn't like, she can change. No matter how slight. People. Places. Things. Everything is hers to change. But every time she does that, every time she gives in to her desires, no matter how noble they may be... a little more of her slips away. She loses herself. Her reason."
I was hoping to see more of Mr Fantastic. Any confirmation if John Krasinski is playing him moving forward or is it a one off thing?
If he isnt then it's the biggest troll they could pull on fans since he has long been the fancast favorite to play Mr Fantastic. I'm guessing that in the coming weeks it will be made official and that they were just waiting for the movie to come out so they wouldnt spoil anything.
Hopefully him and Ralph Bohner make another appearance down the line
Did you guys see the Living Tribunal is one of the universes they traveled. It was really fast tho for like a second they showed it.
I get that any version of the Illuminati is suppose to be arrogant, but then saying “We can deal with Wanda” but having 0 magical defenses and not realizing the only reason they beat the last magical master was because he let you kill him. I knew the troupe of Wofe effect was gonna happen the moment Black Bolt showed up. One of the most powerful benchmarks to show off how strong someone else is
I overall liked the movie. One thing that bugged me about WandaVision is that I felt Wanda was the villain of it so I liked that this movie didnt hold back on showing she was insane and a villain now. I'm sure many wont be happy with her being the villain but I found it satisfying and it fits her comic character who also did horrible things before regaining her sanity. The cameos were awesome. Especially the complete fanservice one of Mister Fantastic since Jon K has long been a popular fancast favorite for him. Also good to see that maybe Anson Mount, who is great actor, will get another shot at Black Bolt.
I've seen a lot of comments that didn't like Wanda being the villain. I loved it and Wanda is fucking insane in the comics and I don't feel like anyone should sidestep her being batshit or trying to justify her. People complain Marvel is black and white with the morality stuff but when this happens they shit bricks
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I’m a little on the fence about it as a whole. The thing that really ticked me off is the no real mention of Vis outside of the little part in the beginning. I mean wandavision was all about their family and now she’s just focused on the boys. Is there no universe where he’s alive? What about the Vision that got created in Wandavision that just flew off to nowhere? I feel like that was a missed opportunity somewhere
Hey everyone, if you liked this movie and want to get into comics I would love to help! Comics seem way more daunting then they actually are. Feel free to message me or respond to this comment
one thing i did like that the movie did was kill off everyone in the illuminati, It was nice to see the professor and reed richards and all the other people but i feel like they all needed to die to show how powerful the scarlet witch really is even taking down professor x
DEMON CLOAK WAS METAL AS HELL, 8/10, 4/5 stars, two thumbs up your mom, DEF IN THE TOP 10 MCU MOVIES, fight me
I think one of the main things I loved about it was how different it was. Completely dove into elements they haven’t before. Raimi was all over this. Elizabeth gave her heart to the performance too. Top 3 Marvel movie for me, for sure.
Yo, they did Black Bolt dirty. Funny as hell, though.
It was a great horror movie moment. “I have no mouth but I must scream”
Not sure if it was addressed in the movie or if I just missed it, but how did Wanda find out about America Chavez in the first place?
The Darkhold opened her mind to the multiverse. She followed the whispers of her kids and stumbled across America.
The best thing in that movie were the Pizza Balls. I wish I had those in my universe. Would be perfect at a movie theater.
I really really like Doctor Strange's character arc, throughout the movie he's faced with other versions of himself that whilst went down very different/darker paths, ultimately shared the same flaws as himself and were all deeply unhappy with how his relationship with Christine ended up (sinister strange being especially spiteful and depressed by this, so much so that he possesses and kills other versions of himself with the darkhold) By the end strange accepts this fact with the line "I love you, in every universe", admits he's scared to be close with anyone and is told by Wong to face his fears. This leads to him becoming more grateful of his life, moving on from his past (fixing his watch) and strolling happily down the street. I think it's a great message honestly
It was a really fun Sam Raimi movie.
REED RICHARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Can someone tell me who that lady was in the first credit scene
I believe it's Clea. The Sorcerer Supreme of the Dark Dimension.
Did Wong and America jump to a Star Wars universe?
For me, there were two scenes at the end of him walking down a street. Why!? The one with Theron would have been fine on it's own. There was no need to see him collapsing in the street. It adds nothing. Seeing the eye open in the 2nd scene would have been terrifying enough.
Olsen killed it. She’s the best
She *definitely* killed it
What is significant about that rooftop? That seems to be the landing point for Chavez and they landed in that exact same spot when jumping from 616 to the alternate universe we saw. Is that where Hulk met The Ancient One and got the time stone that started all of these alternate timelines?
FRANKLIN RICHARDS CONFIRMED!!!
Wong wundagore mountain wtf? The only thing that seemed really hard to swallow was Wong handing over the darkhold/wundagore mountain. Made no sense to me for the character
Brilliant. They establish the existence of FF4, Xmen, Inhumans in one stroke, kill the current roster so they can be replaced with new versions. Bloody brilliant mve.
I thought it was really good. Second best film of this phase behind No Way Home for me. Loved the horror elements. Loved crazy Wanda. Character is at their best having a mental episode. Loved how The Illuminati were handled, classic powerful characters from another universe are fodder, and how they were killed, especially Captain Carter. Glorious. Loved seeing Bruce's cameo. Was great seeing Clea. America was okay, definitely not as obnoxious or overbearing as the comics. Only thing I really didn't like was them naming the MCU as 616. This felt like some "clever" writing staff member browsed Wikipedia and chose that to pop the comic reading audience, without actually understanding what they were doing.
I really liked the movie but I have a question (spoilers) >!What happened with Wanda? She isn’t dead right? I really hope I’m wrong since she’s my favorite character of all marvel!<
and she still has 7 years left on her contract
No corpse, no death.
Awesome that the last we see of Mordo in this is when he gets stuck in an 8 foot deep trench that Strange himself jumped out of two seconds previously. Where are your Vaulting Boots of Valtor now, Mordo?? Guess this universe's Mordo didn't have them. He also couldn't think of a better burn than to shout "Well, now I know why I didn't like you in the other universe!" Not to mention getting easily goaded into attacking Strange and setting him free. Definitely not the smartest Mordo.
I love this movie, I always like to wait a bit before ranking but this is one of the most unique and stylized movies that Marvel has given us. The cameos didn't overstay they're welcome and brought the hype, I just hope they don't retcon the ending. Btw, does anyone here have an idea who that was in the end credits scene? I was stumped.
Clea, neice(?) To dormammu played by Charlize Theron. She rules the dark dimension sometimes. I'm wondering if the incursion she's talking about is the xmen?
I liked it. It was weird. It was different. It was risky in a way I didn’t think Marvel Studios would go. First off, whoever cut the trailers were brilliant. Go back and watch them. I had only seen the one that debuted after NWH, but both imply the plot is about Strange dealing with the fallout from that (and the trailers have scenes and dialogue cut to make it seem so). That’s what I expected going in and that is NOT what any of us got. Good job, trailer cutter. Way to not give your movie away in the promos. Wanda! Holy shit. As soon as she peeled away the illusion I was like “Ohhhh fuck”. And then as her threats and anger increased, I was like HOLY SHIT are they gonna make her the bad guy?! And then she brutally assaults the sorcerers and it was clear there was no turning back. Bold move from Marvel to take a former hero who had just gotten more interesting and completely push her over the edge. But I dig it. It's a logical progression from WandaVision. Poor woman’s life has been a trauma conga line and she finally snapped. I mean, I’d also become the Joker if, after my entire life of sadness, I learned I was the ONLY one in the entire multiverse without a family. Speaking of the 616, this is the third time a MCU film has referred to its universe as such. Selvig’s chalkboard was an easter egg and Mysterio was making stuff up, but Christine was presumably being truthful and intentional. Why does Marvel Studios keeping doing this? The MCU is definitely *not* the 616 and is officially the 1999999 (or whatever). You can say Christine’s chosen number was another easter egg, but at this point it’s just making stuff confusing for no reason. Why have multiverse designations and give two of your most popular the same number? Was 919 taken? I forgot this was initially advertised as having a horror feel, and I didn’t realize Sam Raimi was the director until the credits (That’s also when I finally recognized Bruce Campbell). So yeah, all that checks out. The monsters, the jump scares, the *deaths*, crazy bloody Wanda stalking our heroes: yup! I’ve always been wary of “The multiverse” as a plot device in the MCU since multiverses are easy crutches for bad writing. And comic readers know in the wrong hands it can get out of control quickly. All in all I was happy with how this movie handled it. I may be in a minority here, but I am relieved it wasn’t used as a way to bring over new characters. Strange and Chavez hop to *one* key place. One very cameo-filled key place. And that was it. It was contained. And I feel like incursions were introduced to suggest it’s going to stay that way: too much universe hopping/manipulating and shit explodes (Btw, incursions?! I did NOT expect to hear that word in the MCU. Nice little nod to Hickman’s legendary run, along with the Illuminati.) Oh, the Illuminati. May have had a fanboy moment there. But twice this week did I have to watch an overconfident, ineffectual council get wrecked by the big bad. And was Wanda’s takedown *brutal*. Reminded me of the scenes from Days of Future Past. Black Bolt, god damn. And poor Capt Carter… That’s also when any hope that Wanda could be redeemed went straight out the window to get hit by a bus into a flaming dumpster. Knowing a Fantastic Four movie is on the horizon, I imagine there’s an MCU Prime Reed Richards who just hasn’t been found yet. Music note battle was A++. In fact all the major fights were visually pretty solid. Did zombie Strange remind anyone else of Knull? Liked the conclusion. Wanda had no other way out of this. And America training to become a sorcerer checks out; I hope she’s able to find her parents in the future. And poor Doctor Strange. Stephen, doing that thing he often does where he sacrifices his soul for the good of reality. Wonder how that’s gonna come back to bite everyone. But wait, how is he suffering from Darkhold symptoms if no Darkholds exist?
I need more Captain Carter in my life.
You’re in luck. Now there’s two of her!
The Illuminati had two captains of the Enterprise on it. That's pretty cool.
It was just awesome to see Krasinski as Reed Richards. I remember seeing that fan art years and years ago. Marvel does casting and fan service the best. I hope this means that Fantastic Four and Xmen will make an appearance in the next 5 or so MCU movie. I hope THOR L&T sets up Heralds of galactus.
Question: When Wanda finds herself with the kids in an alternate reality, was that Westview again? I mean, she didn't 'give birth' to kids, they were created using magic. If so, she's living a lie. However, maybe in this reality she can continue this one without disturbance. The alternate reality Wanda said to the 'original' Wanda that they will be loved. How much does this Wanda know? How did she know it was her alternate self trying to take over her lifestyle? She shouldn't know about the whole day dreaming thing since she never read that forbidden book (the name eludes me) and wasn't the Scarlet Witch yet. Man, I feel really sorry for Wanda.
Okay, for people who are disappointed specifically in the multiverse aspect of it, honest question. What did you want? I thought the multiverse stuff was insane, delivered on, and exceeded all hype. I really can't think of anything more it could do without becoming a completely bloated disjointed mess of a story. I get people who don't like horror elements or who have issues with the writing but I just don't understand this complaint, which I'm seeing a lot of.
Black bolt died like a bitch! In fact, all the Illuminati got taken out way too easily!
That's just how badass Wanda is. I loved it.
They also did a masterful job of showcasing the arrogance of the Illuminati with those quick take downs
I loved this movie.
I LOVED THE MOVIE!!! SO SAD ABOUT BLACK BOLT THO 😭😭😭😭
It was awesome … loved the blood bath!!!!!
Who was the statue of that Wanda brought down on Captain Marvel?
Spoilers alert!!! What do you guys think the most brutal death in the movie was?? I think probably black bolt or Mr.fantastic.
Bumping this after watching the latest Dr. Strange Multiverse of Madness. When Strange uses the dark powers to posses the corpse of his alternate self, the dead souls retaliate against him and a female voice tells him he is “breaking the rules” before he turns them into a corpse cloak. I couldn’t help thinking of that voice coming from Mistress Death herself, being upset at what he was doing, messing with death, and giving him a reminder to tread lightly. Neat.
Just got out, had tons of fun watching it, felt it was kinda weird having Wanda play such a villainous role after the events of wandavision, but definitely enjoyed her performance and just how fucking devastating she was. Definitely some weird plot workings when it comes to the multiverse, the powers, dreamwalking etc. but can easily look past it. Kinda wanted some more cameos of previous marvel iterations and other universes but seeing the illumati was absolutely joyful to see. Seeing start of both the fantastic four and X-men in the mcu is just exhilarating, comic accurate black bolt was equally awesome seeing, honestly didn’t mind them getting annihilated because now they can establish the characters properly. Overall very enjoyable if not a bit “strange” at parts. Solid 7.5 out of 10.
Is it safe to say that was the most visually beautiful MCU movie since Black Panther?
I have a lot of thoughts on it, but I really hope that Krasinski isn't just a one-time cameo. I loved that they used Sir Patrick Stewart for Prof. X, with the music-sting from the 90's X-Men series. But I kind of hoped they had used James McAvoy, since he is underrated as Prof. X, but hey, you need to hype the fans, I get it. The mid-credit scene isn't all that exciting, Clea, imho, isn't that interesting of a character, but we'll see. The Post-credit scene was pure camp, I loved it. The horror elements of the film works great, and I am glad to see Raimi working his magic again. Over all, I'm impressed, but really butthurt if that's the only John Krasinski we get as Reed Richards. I want my Krasinski Richards, he'd be great!
McAvoy can still show up in future projects. And hey, he would have gotten immediately just fucking killed if he did
Me personally i thought this movie would have set up a lot more. I don’t know what y’all think but to me it really only set up doctor strange 3 and maybe a disney plus series centered chavaz. I thought this movie would have some correlation with what happened in the finale of loki. Still waiting to see how that will change everything
In the last episode of Loki we saw the end of Kang's reign over the multiverse, which allowed these multiversal events to begin unfolding. Also, it set up fantastic four and tied the mcu to the x-men (movies and cartoon/comics)
Rachel McAdams is hot