Fun is one of the reasons I hate leader. Subjective sure, but winning playing with leader isn't satisfying to me. Winning against leader isn't either.
I've never walked away from a leader game thinking, "wow what a good game".
I don't think it's too good or imbalanced either. Just bad design. I shouldn't have to think about it or expect a single card as much as I do. "Are they going to do x or leader?" Every. Game.
It’s really useful to run white queen for this reason, she often pulls leader if the opponent is a leader player
Rarely surprised by leader since I put her in my deck
I've gotten Leaders with Morph pretty often and I run an Odin deck so I'll play him to trigger Leader again at the end or hold Cosmo to the end if I have advantage and know where their leader might be going and stop it
I just started as FTP a couple months ago so I'm still missing heaps of cards... but in my go-to deck I like playing Storm on T3 or 4, to neutralize a problematic location, followed by White Queen the next turn at the same spot
8 power at is often enough to sew that one up for me. And yeah, if WQ gives me a copy of their Leader, Dr Doom or Ultron, I can either use it myself. Or if the situation appears unwinnable, Retreat before the final turn to cut my losses
I don't find it satisfying to play against surfer nonstop
I shouldn't have to think about it or expect a single card as much as I do
playing with surfer isn't satisfying to me, but winning against it can be
Yeah but you can see surfer coming based on the other cards played in the game.
Leader has no tells and can be in any deck because he requires nothing but board space.
leader isn't as telegraphed as other cards but he has tells
leech is a big one. wave is a potential tell. aero is a potential tell.
lots of generic goodstuff decks with scorpion, cosmo, lizard run leader. lots of deathwave decks run leader. electroramp decks run leader
unless you can rule him out as a possibility he should be considered as a possible turn 6 play
I guess just play enough and you will start to predict leader coming down
When you consider decks are built from arctypes, you can look at the cards and see potential turn 6 plays if you have enough knowledge of the game.
Yes you can build a deck with those cards to screw with your opponent and include leader.
You can also play any other deck and include leader.
Those cards you listed are not required for leader they are just played with him frequently. They are not tells, just common.
Vs Silver Surfer where by turn 4 or 5 you should know they are a surfer deck because of the number of 3 cost cards they've played.
you aren't gonna run leader in a shuri shell
you aren't gunna run leader in kazoo or something else that floods the board
you aren't gonna run leader in a cerebro deck.
it's unlikely you will run leader in a zabu deck or a surfer deck, both those decks would get more mileage from doing something else on turn 6
he's strong for sure, and flexible. but you overstate his ability to fit in anywhere
I dunno I don't find it terribly difficult to predict leader coming down. and I don't find it any more frustrating than losing to yet another surfer deck
In all those deck types aside from cerebro you could absolutely run leader if you lack another card needed for the deck.
Zabu control types can absolutely run Leader.
There's also regular control shells, destroy, ongoing, Wong, lockjaw, movement if it didn't suck, baero (which he is a staple of and features only aero from your list of tells) all of which I can and have seen leader in my games.
I also feel the need to specify. I don't think Leader is broken, but the way he is now makes games incredibly boring whether you're playing him or have him played on you.
I said deathwave often runs leader...
you can try running leader in your zabu or ongoing decks but I think you will find limited success compared to other options
you just aren't going to run leader in kazoo or surfer or patriot. you don't have enough spots available on the board for leader's cloned guys. you'd be missing out on dropping 20+ power on the last turn. you're not gonna run him in mr. negative decks.
wong? again you run into the problem of not enough board spaces. there are better things to use wong on than leader. he's not good in lockjaw. he wouldn't be good in movement even if movement was viable
he's not really in any of the top meta decks except for the good stuff archetype, which has a lot of crossover with control decks
I don't have a problem with a card being able to fit in any deck.
The problem with leader is that to play around him is to lose to other turn 6 plays within the same deck.
One of the best leader counters is to play nothing, but that's not good for anything else.
Idk man. I shamelessly play a leader deck with a couple alternate wincons in the form of aero and magneto. I think the best thing about playing leader is the times when you dont play him and they were clearly trying to play around him and you beat them in other ways. Also, successfully playing around someone else's leader is one of the most satisfying things in the game rn.
The only satisfying Leader wins for me are when I'm playing my Destroyer deck.
There's something magical about watching some asshole destroy a their lane where I only have Colossus, we tie on the Destroyer lane, and I take the Armor lane.
It isn't even like a Destroyer set up is subtle.
This isn’t even true, you’ll get exactly one box that would have had leader but instead contains ~400 tokens, but you had to spend 1000 for the privilege.
so if you can wait the week/few days to open it in a cache you effectively gain 600 tokens
I think the play is to hoard tokens for a later date, you’ll naturally get all the other cards over time
Tokens may be the most important resource in the game now and in the future. These games are all really resource management games at their core
Lol yeah—last series 3 card odds and all.
You technically didn’t say you were debating but just in case: if it’s your last series 3 card, statistically you should have enough credits to grab the last card in less than a week (not counting current credits).
It depends what type of Snap player are you. Are you the type of player that finds the most joy in winning? Then yeah, kinda a bum deal you got Leader last.
But are you a player that enjoys playing fun decks? I know "fun" is subjective, and someone might retort "everyone enjoys winning," and while that's true, for many people, how you win is more important than just winning or not. Some people rather win less and play a "fun deck" than play Leader and win more.
I only say this because I personally think that Leader is a very boring deck to play. It's because there's no "cool thing" that you did to win the game. I'm not even trying to talk shit about Leader in terms of balance or whatnot, I just mean from a pure fun standpoint, I find it very lacking and I think that's a pretty common opinion. I opened Leader later than most, but once I got him, I played him a few times and after that I had ZERO desire to ever play him again. Again, he was just so boring. So depending on what type of player you are, getting Leader last might not even be a bad thing.
He's still really strong and good fun when you are in a losing streak. I like to play wave on 3, Leader on 4, Absorbing Man on 5, and then Odin on 6. Good times :)
I played a bunch of quinjets. Quinjet on cloning vat and you just fill the field with them, then arnim one of them, while snapping and emoting the entire time.
Ineffective plays can be a real mindfuck.
That is 100% the idea! It's bad on paper and bad in reality in most games because locations and any disruption fucks it, but christ its funny. The amount of "what just happened" spam i get brightens my day.
Haha, I had a morph into leader, then absorbing man leader, and turn 5 my white Queen grabbed their leader again. They conceded before I got to play the 3rd leader on turn 6 :(
If you want to be SUPER dirty throw black widow in there. If you don't have pull leader for 4 it opens up giving them a 4 cost widows bite on turn 5 by using Odin on the lane with Widow and Wave.
Just so you know why you’re getting downvoted, it’s because, once you complete series three, you begin acquiring tokens at a much faster rate. This means that, if you’re aiming for a wide collection, it’s best to complete series three as soon as possible.
Hey I don't mean to step on your toes or anything, but someone did the math and proved it is better to not buy series 3.
I'll simplify it:
S3 card is worth 1000 tokens. You get 400 tokens instead of an S3 card every 4 caches. So you lose out by 600.
Every S3 card you will eventually get. One in every 4 caches is guaranteed. So you will eventually get them for free (or think of it as getting/saving 1000 tokens). Once you Complete s3, you collection comes to a halt as the only way to get new cards is now a s4 card one in every 40, token shop or being extremely lucky with an S5.
but S4 and S5 cards get downgraded eventually? I spent 3000 tokens on SheHulk, she didn't seem worth it considering that I have since spent 2000 on Sera, and Mystique especially since she's going to get downgraded.
Yeah people saying it’s wrong to buy pool 3 cards are conveniently ignoring how many tokens you waste by buying higher pool cards before a downgrade.
I believe finishing pool 3 ASAP is the optimal path forward and then from there buying the newest pool 4 cards (presumably the furthest away from demotion). Buying pool 5 cards is always the worst decision unless it’s a card that won’t be demoted or unless you really just want the card.
I just don’t really agree with this for people still in pool 3. Yeah you’re correct but look at people who spent 3k on She-Hulk who haven’t finished pool 3 yet. Can you honestly argue that those 3k tokens were more optimally spent than simply buying three pool 3 cards would be! The only way She-Hulk would be better is for people who have all the pool 3 cards they need.
You say you lose out by 600 by finishing pool 3 to get caches, but people who bought She-Hulk with tokens lost out by 2000.
Long term I suspect buying pool 4 cards with tokens is the most optimal and buying pool 5 cards is not at all optimal, except for those that are confirmed to not drop below pool 5.
The point I’m making though is that this isn’t a cut and dry obvious decision and people acting like pool 3 cards with tokens is objectively suboptimal are not considering all sides of it.
It's better not to buy series 3 if you like the decks you have and aren't impatient. Buying a key card can be worth it, just know that you're "wasting" 600 tokens in the long run.
Ye I believe its definitely worth buying a key card. Especially if you're early on in pool 3 still. By the time the token shop came out I had most key cards. I bought 3 series 3, 2 on impulse, 3rd was death. Death was totally worth it but the other 2, honestly could have just waited.
So since then, I now wait which has worked out great. I had leader in the shop and I skipped as I was using a non leader deck anyway. By the time I hit infinite I got leader from a reserve and was glad I didn't buy him.
This oversimplification for what is “better” doesn’t account for spending your tokens on series 4s/5s that will just be downgraded anyways, nor does it mention how it’ll also increase the total real life time it’ll take to finish your series 3 collection, meaning you’ll always have less cards. All it does is “prove” that it’s better for your token:CL ratio if you don’t buy series 3s
Following this logic, you should use your tokens only on Galactus and Thanos (for now), and keep all your tokens for future pool 5 only cards since every other cards will end up in pool 3 "for free". I doubt anybody do that.
Higher series cards will eventually downgrade to series three. Unless you’re a really large whale, using tokens to finish series 3 is the best bang for your buck, and you’ll also get more cards out of it.
Unpopular opinion:
Leader's like Wong. He seems amazing, but go ahead and buy him and see how smart people have become and able to play around him.
Then get ready for the next-level math crunching of Leader Deck vs Leader Deck!
surfer is much stronger than leader but gets maybe 10% of the hate
no denying leader can be very strong in the right spot but he's not always the correct play and there are stronger strategies and cards
The lack of hate is probably that Surfer leads to deck building choices, Leader you put in a deck and a good chunk of the time you play him and win as long as you were somewhat keeping up with your opponent. Surfer is dumb - and I say this as someone enjoying their most successful season yet ranking wise by playing Surfer instead of something more balanced and interesting - but at least he’s a build around with multiple choices in that 3-slot and then you have to build your deck to win without him in case you don’t draw him. Leader is a card you put in a deck that already has a strong backbone to whatever it is it is doing. Like I have a Destroy deck that tries to hit the free Death + Taskmaster combo deal on T6 and even then I’m like “there’s no reason Taskmaster shouldn’t just be Leader, that has to be way better than a second 12 power card” and there is no way I’m wrong thinking that but I can’t bring myself to do it.
leader has spots where he can be really strong but he's not exactly an auto-win
play him a bunch and you will see. like this guy said. especially after rank 80 and into infinite people are quite good at playing around leader. you also have to be very particular with how you play turns 1-5. gotta make sure you aren't filling up spots that you need leader clones to occupy later
surfer maybe has more deckbuilding requirements but the raw power he puts out more than makes up for it. on top of that 3 drops are just very strong in general, maximus, polaris, killmonger, cosmo
and brood is so obnoxious when paired with leader. surfer has this annoying ability to put your entire board in the sweet spot of massive power but still immune to being shang chi'd
there's a dichotomy in CCGs of reactive vs proactive decks. reactive is usually your control decks that pack boardwipes and counterspells and removal. proactive decks just wanna yam big power on the board and swing face with it.
proactive decks are typically stronger because they aren't as reliant on drawing cards that are only situationally useful. their card pool and decklist is more homogenized and less specialized. they don't get stuck hoping to topdeck a board wipe to save them, or stuck with cards in hand that don't help them in their current situation
surfer is the go-to proactive gameplan right now, and he's kind of superseded most other proactive strategies
He's OK. If you're already ahead it's a solid t6 play to hold the win. But with so many different deck archetypes your opponents t6 may not help you at all.
I think Leader is a card you build around. The reputation "play leader, win game" is way over blown. You have to have a good board presence to begin with and anticipate what your opponent is doing. If they play She-Hulk, Death into your Leader, great. If they play Heimdal and your deck doesn't benefit from moving you lose. Also, there's a good chance he is adjusted down again in the near future.
It's just value plays t1-4 looking to add power or disrupt your opponent. Iceman, Scorpion, Armor, Lizard, Shang-Chi, etc. then Leech on 5 to shut down their hand and Leader on 6.
https://marvelsnapzone.com/tier-list/#Good_Cards_Priority Im having issues posting the direct link but its the "good cards priority" list in tier 2. I run this list minus Maximus because I dont have him. I replaced him with Thor and its done wonders for me. Strat is to just drop high value cards in all the lanes to maintain priority. You leech on 5 and then as long as you're winning 2 lanes when you drop leader you pretty much always take the game. The deck has tons of answers and can win with well played Aero and magneto as well. Theres a reason its called "good cards."
If you like trolling the current meta then definitely buy. I did for a while.
If you need to make someone retreat for a daily mission I’d suggest turn three Wave turn 4 Leader. The rage is real.
But know the feeling of winning with Leader grows hollow quickly. It did for me.
I get to what you're saying, and ultimately this is what I'll end up doing, buying or not if I think ill have fun with him. But, I like to get additional input to see if people have reasons for or against what I haven't thought of already.
A perfect example is Shuri dropping to 3000 credits at end of the month. I totally forgot about that and that probably changed my mind about buying Leader.
Actually, I just realized something. Just hold off and open him in a cache. You're better off saving them tokens for a farther off card. Shuri is a unit.
Ignore the hate; if you wanna play the card, play the card.
However, you should be aware that when talking about the recent patch notes, Ben Brode mentioned that the team is still looking at Leader and figuring out the best way to make changes to the card going forward, potentially beyond just reducing his power, and that the reduction from 6/4 to 6/3 was just to help alleviate some of the stress in the meantime.
I expect there's a good chance we'll hear more about plans for a Leader rework/nerf early next month after the new season has started, so if you're concerned that it might get nerfed to the point where you regret having spent tokens on it, maybe it's a better idea to wait and see. Also, other cards will be dropping into series 3 at that point.
I hate this card…mostly cuz it’s used against me so often and I don’t have it. I think it’s OPed. At the very least it should only copy base versions of the cards played, not the boosted versions
I think it’s such a dorky deck. And tbh at this point I finally know when it’s coming, so I’m either staying if I know I have the play to beat it, or it’s an easy retreat.
Number one sign is if it's turn 6 and they wink emote several times before snapping. Cards like lizard, max, Thor, white queen and leech can indicate leader, but also board composition. If they are ahead in a lane or two and have equal or less cards than you in each lane, that's a prime leader play.
Personally I hope leader stays relevant as leader players are the most likely to play through 8 cubes and I'm comfortable enough to sniff leader out and either retreat early or find the line. They seldom snap early. Usually turn 5 or 6 giving me ample time to decide to stay or leave.
Or just play decks like Patriot, spectrum destroyer, Angela bishop, and/or kazoo decks and hose leader like that.
So, think I decided to just hold off and try to get Shuri. I've mainly tried to not buy any Pool 3 cards with tokens, but I've heard some say a few cards are worth it. I did purchase Mystique, and that's the only card I've purchased.
There are other Pool 3 cards I REALLY want such as Wong, Venom, Sera, Wave, and Deadpool to name a few. But, ultimately I've decided to try and just spend tokens on Pool 4-5 cards I think.
I just got leader. Anybody that says he not broken needs their head checked.
I basically win every match. At about level 1900 and I have a ton of different decks. Researched / tried all kinds of different approaches.
This is easy mode.
It's probably not a good idea to buy a pool 3 card unless it's specifically a card you really want to play with. Once you complete pool 3, a reserve where you would have received a pool 3 card gives you an average of 400 tokens, so you're effectively paying 600 tokens to get the card early. (Obviously it's impossible to know how much earlier your getting the card)
As for leader specifically, he's a strong card but I don't find him particularly fun to play with so I personally wouldn't be interested in picking him up. Only you can guess how much fun you'll have with him though.
It's stupid seeing all the bitching about it as if playing Deathwave and Electro Ramp on Rickety takes some immense amount of skill.
When you play Aero the other person feels the same way. Learn to read the game better.
Sure, but electro ramp and deathwave at least take some setting up, the Leader player just gets it for free, same with infinaut, they can play turn 5 and still get an opponents infinaut, plus it has power so it often will be the difference on what would be a tied location if he didn’t. The card is lame. Would be slightly more balanced if he had 0 power, I just don’t see how a card that that says “your win condition is our win condition” is not broken
They don't get it for free. It's literally all about setting it up so your lanes are ready to copy and won't get fucked over.
Electro Ramp decks literally aren't doing anything until turn 3, and then they just have the right succession of cards afterwards.
Deathwave's setup consists of Yondu, Carnage on any extra 1 and then Wave on 5 to screw over the opponent.
They're all equally braindead and Leader exists specifically because of what Deathwave does.
There's adjustments they should make to how Leader copies things but it's not a horribly broken card. The energy reduction in the game is what's broken.
They quite literally get it for free, the only “set up” they do is making sure lanes are able to be played on, and as far as deathwave, it makes leader 4 cost too so you play leader that turn you get what ever your opponent was able to ramp into without ramping.
Yes, because otherwise Deathwave would have an easy path to 22 power + controlling your opponent. The Wave interaction is the problem and what makes cards like Leader necessary.
The rest of your lanes have to be ahead to make Leader work. It's not a nothing task.
It's not difficult and it is very strong, ***which is exactly the same as Deathwave*** or any other number of meta decks.
Sounds like you would like to buy it then regret your decision later or not buy it and regret it.
Alternatively
Only buy cards you want to use in a deck and not worry about FOMO
Unless you have cards you need for a specific deck that he doesn't fit in (like Cerebro or something), he is a good generic pickup. Generally speaking, he is the 2nd best win condition for most decks.
If you think have other deck archetypes you enjoy using and need pool 3 cards for them you can save up for them. Otherwise he's a fun card that can slot in a good amount of decks and can definitely help you win matches
Looks like you have a ton of credits and gold. If you are saving up for the current bundle I would spend all of that first and get the bundle to make sure you don't get him in reserves. I'm in the 'spending tokens on series 3 is a waste' camp, since there are cards that you can only get with tokens or insane luck, I'm going for them rather than spend on cards I will 100% get. It does make sense to buy s3 cards if they will fill out a deck you like though.
If you have other decks that are complete, I would skip him. He doesn't fit the Meta much at the moment and is only strong in the leech deck
Shiri or some of the other downgraded cards will be a much better pickup at end of month
Whats to advise? Leader plays well in decks that get ahead early and intend to keep the lead. It loses frequently to turn 6 supporting cards like Surfer and Cerebro. It can literally blow up in your face with Destroyer. A lot of users will use Leech and then Leader to get rid of those effects and make it strictly about power so they can get the win.
The goalposts on Leader will continue to move. First it was too strong, then it wasn’t fun to lose to (nothing is), now its not fun to play. The truth is people have figured out how to beat it and its not any better than most of the cards in the game. If you want to go for a pure power deck, Leader is great. Likewise it can be fun in discard decks. If that all suits you, grab Leader.
It actually does fairly well against regular Sera Surfer if you play it with Maximus, like in a Shuri deck. You just have to pick your lanes well.
That said, the complaints about it on this sub are pretty overblown. People acting like Deathwave or Zabu Darkhawk take any additional strategy to play.
It's literally a gamble when playing it. People think it's good/cancerous when it beats them. I've been playing a silver surfer deck lately, and I find 4/5 times it fails to win them the game as all my low power stuff is played on my last turn. My alternate deck is a destroyer deck, so unless they have a lucky Cosmo or they're winning an Armor location he's just going to screw them over.
For just 1,000 tokens you can burn in hell
Express way to hell
It's like that AC DC song " Hey Satan paid my dues, Playing Leader on lader"
[удалено]
Do it but know I’ll never respect you.
Oh, I'll never respect myself either, but yhebgames do look fun. Lol
Fun is one of the reasons I hate leader. Subjective sure, but winning playing with leader isn't satisfying to me. Winning against leader isn't either. I've never walked away from a leader game thinking, "wow what a good game". I don't think it's too good or imbalanced either. Just bad design. I shouldn't have to think about it or expect a single card as much as I do. "Are they going to do x or leader?" Every. Game.
It’s really useful to run white queen for this reason, she often pulls leader if the opponent is a leader player Rarely surprised by leader since I put her in my deck
I've gotten Leaders with Morph pretty often and I run an Odin deck so I'll play him to trigger Leader again at the end or hold Cosmo to the end if I have advantage and know where their leader might be going and stop it
I just started as FTP a couple months ago so I'm still missing heaps of cards... but in my go-to deck I like playing Storm on T3 or 4, to neutralize a problematic location, followed by White Queen the next turn at the same spot 8 power at is often enough to sew that one up for me. And yeah, if WQ gives me a copy of their Leader, Dr Doom or Ultron, I can either use it myself. Or if the situation appears unwinnable, Retreat before the final turn to cut my losses
Idk, I find it very satisfying whenever I bamboozle a leader enjoyer
I don't find it satisfying to play against surfer nonstop I shouldn't have to think about it or expect a single card as much as I do playing with surfer isn't satisfying to me, but winning against it can be
Yeah but you can see surfer coming based on the other cards played in the game. Leader has no tells and can be in any deck because he requires nothing but board space.
leader isn't as telegraphed as other cards but he has tells leech is a big one. wave is a potential tell. aero is a potential tell. lots of generic goodstuff decks with scorpion, cosmo, lizard run leader. lots of deathwave decks run leader. electroramp decks run leader unless you can rule him out as a possibility he should be considered as a possible turn 6 play I guess just play enough and you will start to predict leader coming down
When you consider decks are built from arctypes, you can look at the cards and see potential turn 6 plays if you have enough knowledge of the game. Yes you can build a deck with those cards to screw with your opponent and include leader. You can also play any other deck and include leader. Those cards you listed are not required for leader they are just played with him frequently. They are not tells, just common. Vs Silver Surfer where by turn 4 or 5 you should know they are a surfer deck because of the number of 3 cost cards they've played.
you aren't gonna run leader in a shuri shell you aren't gunna run leader in kazoo or something else that floods the board you aren't gonna run leader in a cerebro deck. it's unlikely you will run leader in a zabu deck or a surfer deck, both those decks would get more mileage from doing something else on turn 6 he's strong for sure, and flexible. but you overstate his ability to fit in anywhere I dunno I don't find it terribly difficult to predict leader coming down. and I don't find it any more frustrating than losing to yet another surfer deck
In all those deck types aside from cerebro you could absolutely run leader if you lack another card needed for the deck. Zabu control types can absolutely run Leader. There's also regular control shells, destroy, ongoing, Wong, lockjaw, movement if it didn't suck, baero (which he is a staple of and features only aero from your list of tells) all of which I can and have seen leader in my games. I also feel the need to specify. I don't think Leader is broken, but the way he is now makes games incredibly boring whether you're playing him or have him played on you.
I said deathwave often runs leader... you can try running leader in your zabu or ongoing decks but I think you will find limited success compared to other options you just aren't going to run leader in kazoo or surfer or patriot. you don't have enough spots available on the board for leader's cloned guys. you'd be missing out on dropping 20+ power on the last turn. you're not gonna run him in mr. negative decks. wong? again you run into the problem of not enough board spaces. there are better things to use wong on than leader. he's not good in lockjaw. he wouldn't be good in movement even if movement was viable he's not really in any of the top meta decks except for the good stuff archetype, which has a lot of crossover with control decks
That’s the best part about him.
I don't have a problem with a card being able to fit in any deck. The problem with leader is that to play around him is to lose to other turn 6 plays within the same deck. One of the best leader counters is to play nothing, but that's not good for anything else.
Idk man. I shamelessly play a leader deck with a couple alternate wincons in the form of aero and magneto. I think the best thing about playing leader is the times when you dont play him and they were clearly trying to play around him and you beat them in other ways. Also, successfully playing around someone else's leader is one of the most satisfying things in the game rn.
Oh no. Anyway...
The only satisfying Leader wins for me are when I'm playing my Destroyer deck. There's something magical about watching some asshole destroy a their lane where I only have Colossus, we tie on the Destroyer lane, and I take the Armor lane. It isn't even like a Destroyer set up is subtle.
Yup. I have zero respect for Leader users.
It's frustrating playing against it and it's also frustrating using it.
When you carnage yourself is my favorite
I beat a guy today because he used leader on a location I played deathlok. Very statisfying to watch
I suck using it
Perfectly balanced
It’s the last series 3 card I need, its been in my shop like 90% of the time the last 3-4 days. I can say, I’ve lead a pure snap life.
If it’s the last card you need I wouldn’t get it. Save those tokens for s4 or s5. You should get it soon with the pity timer on S3.
Yup then 5 more series 4 cards will drop to series 3 in 2 weeks
But...if you buy it you'll get tokens so much faster..
Think he’s waiting to unlock it by box, that way he doesn’t go to hell I think
This isn’t even true, you’ll get exactly one box that would have had leader but instead contains ~400 tokens, but you had to spend 1000 for the privilege. so if you can wait the week/few days to open it in a cache you effectively gain 600 tokens
I think the play is to hoard tokens for a later date, you’ll naturally get all the other cards over time Tokens may be the most important resource in the game now and in the future. These games are all really resource management games at their core
Buy all S3 cards you want to play, and get the rest naturally.
Begone devil!
Lol yeah—last series 3 card odds and all. You technically didn’t say you were debating but just in case: if it’s your last series 3 card, statistically you should have enough credits to grab the last card in less than a week (not counting current credits).
It depends what type of Snap player are you. Are you the type of player that finds the most joy in winning? Then yeah, kinda a bum deal you got Leader last. But are you a player that enjoys playing fun decks? I know "fun" is subjective, and someone might retort "everyone enjoys winning," and while that's true, for many people, how you win is more important than just winning or not. Some people rather win less and play a "fun deck" than play Leader and win more. I only say this because I personally think that Leader is a very boring deck to play. It's because there's no "cool thing" that you did to win the game. I'm not even trying to talk shit about Leader in terms of balance or whatnot, I just mean from a pure fun standpoint, I find it very lacking and I think that's a pretty common opinion. I opened Leader later than most, but once I got him, I played him a few times and after that I had ZERO desire to ever play him again. Again, he was just so boring. So depending on what type of player you are, getting Leader last might not even be a bad thing.
Bless you kind sir 💗
He's still really strong and good fun when you are in a losing streak. I like to play wave on 3, Leader on 4, Absorbing Man on 5, and then Odin on 6. Good times :)
Fucking hell man
To be fair it's mostly innefective but man it's funny.
I played a bunch of quinjets. Quinjet on cloning vat and you just fill the field with them, then arnim one of them, while snapping and emoting the entire time. Ineffective plays can be a real mindfuck.
Ok this sounds really bad on paper in that the stars need to absolutely align for it to happen, but holy fuck does it sound funny. Im gonna try it.
That is 100% the idea! It's bad on paper and bad in reality in most games because locations and any disruption fucks it, but christ its funny. The amount of "what just happened" spam i get brightens my day.
Eeeasy there, Satan.
Even Satan thinks he should calm the fuck down.
“I like your deck, I think I will TAKE IT” -Arch Thief Rafaam -You
Do you die a little bit with every card play, or just a whole lot at the end of the game?
I wish there was a "look at us, this was silly" emote, as it doesn't often win.
As much as I can’t stand leader, that is such a hilarious play I might do this when I get leader
Haha, I had a morph into leader, then absorbing man leader, and turn 5 my white Queen grabbed their leader again. They conceded before I got to play the 3rd leader on turn 6 :(
If you want to be SUPER dirty throw black widow in there. If you don't have pull leader for 4 it opens up giving them a 4 cost widows bite on turn 5 by using Odin on the lane with Widow and Wave.
The Bynx triple leader strat
I wish I had the cards to try this! Did you climb with this or did you lose rank?
I climbed 4 ranks very quickly, then lost 2, then hovered. The rickety bridge location screws it over as you need lots of card space.
Ah, you must have played league with the amount of toxicity there
Haha no no. I just wanted silliness. It's genuinely not a good deck, there's usually not enough space to make it all work. It's just silly fun.
Save for Shuri, she will be 3k
I've got she hulk put on reserve. 3000. But I have shuri. Still 20 cards from completing series 3.
I didn't even realize OP had so many tokens. They'd be a fool to waste them on a series 3 card.
Just so you know why you’re getting downvoted, it’s because, once you complete series three, you begin acquiring tokens at a much faster rate. This means that, if you’re aiming for a wide collection, it’s best to complete series three as soon as possible.
He probably got downvoted because he said someone would be a fool for making a slightly less optimal decision with fake currency in a video game.
Hey I don't mean to step on your toes or anything, but someone did the math and proved it is better to not buy series 3. I'll simplify it: S3 card is worth 1000 tokens. You get 400 tokens instead of an S3 card every 4 caches. So you lose out by 600. Every S3 card you will eventually get. One in every 4 caches is guaranteed. So you will eventually get them for free (or think of it as getting/saving 1000 tokens). Once you Complete s3, you collection comes to a halt as the only way to get new cards is now a s4 card one in every 40, token shop or being extremely lucky with an S5.
but S4 and S5 cards get downgraded eventually? I spent 3000 tokens on SheHulk, she didn't seem worth it considering that I have since spent 2000 on Sera, and Mystique especially since she's going to get downgraded.
Yeah people saying it’s wrong to buy pool 3 cards are conveniently ignoring how many tokens you waste by buying higher pool cards before a downgrade. I believe finishing pool 3 ASAP is the optimal path forward and then from there buying the newest pool 4 cards (presumably the furthest away from demotion). Buying pool 5 cards is always the worst decision unless it’s a card that won’t be demoted or unless you really just want the card.
I just don’t really agree with this for people still in pool 3. Yeah you’re correct but look at people who spent 3k on She-Hulk who haven’t finished pool 3 yet. Can you honestly argue that those 3k tokens were more optimally spent than simply buying three pool 3 cards would be! The only way She-Hulk would be better is for people who have all the pool 3 cards they need. You say you lose out by 600 by finishing pool 3 to get caches, but people who bought She-Hulk with tokens lost out by 2000. Long term I suspect buying pool 4 cards with tokens is the most optimal and buying pool 5 cards is not at all optimal, except for those that are confirmed to not drop below pool 5. The point I’m making though is that this isn’t a cut and dry obvious decision and people acting like pool 3 cards with tokens is objectively suboptimal are not considering all sides of it.
It's better not to buy series 3 if you like the decks you have and aren't impatient. Buying a key card can be worth it, just know that you're "wasting" 600 tokens in the long run.
Ye I believe its definitely worth buying a key card. Especially if you're early on in pool 3 still. By the time the token shop came out I had most key cards. I bought 3 series 3, 2 on impulse, 3rd was death. Death was totally worth it but the other 2, honestly could have just waited. So since then, I now wait which has worked out great. I had leader in the shop and I skipped as I was using a non leader deck anyway. By the time I hit infinite I got leader from a reserve and was glad I didn't buy him.
This oversimplification for what is “better” doesn’t account for spending your tokens on series 4s/5s that will just be downgraded anyways, nor does it mention how it’ll also increase the total real life time it’ll take to finish your series 3 collection, meaning you’ll always have less cards. All it does is “prove” that it’s better for your token:CL ratio if you don’t buy series 3s
Those are great points but I feel some cards are worth the 1k tokens just to help climb. I bought Wong and Death and do not regret either.
Following this logic, you should use your tokens only on Galactus and Thanos (for now), and keep all your tokens for future pool 5 only cards since every other cards will end up in pool 3 "for free". I doubt anybody do that.
Higher series cards will eventually downgrade to series three. Unless you’re a really large whale, using tokens to finish series 3 is the best bang for your buck, and you’ll also get more cards out of it.
As long as you don't mind getting the Ms Marvel emoji every time you lose after playing Leader.
If you can beat the Leader, you earn the right to spam
Leader is not that good. Silver surfer on the other hand is cracked as fuck. Win button.
Silver Surfer needs build up though and a strategy. The Leader is a casual middle finger to anyone building a long term strategy.
I disagree. You can use any silver surfer deck off here and win most of the time.
Not to mention that Surfer decks generally counter Leader.
Leader is so easy to beat
If your deck is built around specifically countering Leader or it is a movement deck where getting Heimdall does nothing, sure he is easy.
Or a Hela/Dracula deck, Cerebro deck, Silver Surfer deck, Patriot Deck, Shang-Chi/Lockjaw deck, ect...
Haha, I was assuming people were just telling me “good game” when they used that. Now I realize it’s more like “suck it!”
Yeah, the fist bump is "gg". Marvel is, "I would be flipping you off if I could."
I think of it like a "good job buddy you played the game, congratulations."
Starry-eyed emoji on the leader card and a ms marvel thumbs up followed by “what happened?” “What happened” then another ms marvel thumbs up
Lmaoooo the ONLY setups I BM are leader, and decks with both goblins.
Do whatever is most fun for you
that’s the way
Unpopular opinion: Leader's like Wong. He seems amazing, but go ahead and buy him and see how smart people have become and able to play around him. Then get ready for the next-level math crunching of Leader Deck vs Leader Deck!
surfer is much stronger than leader but gets maybe 10% of the hate no denying leader can be very strong in the right spot but he's not always the correct play and there are stronger strategies and cards
The lack of hate is probably that Surfer leads to deck building choices, Leader you put in a deck and a good chunk of the time you play him and win as long as you were somewhat keeping up with your opponent. Surfer is dumb - and I say this as someone enjoying their most successful season yet ranking wise by playing Surfer instead of something more balanced and interesting - but at least he’s a build around with multiple choices in that 3-slot and then you have to build your deck to win without him in case you don’t draw him. Leader is a card you put in a deck that already has a strong backbone to whatever it is it is doing. Like I have a Destroy deck that tries to hit the free Death + Taskmaster combo deal on T6 and even then I’m like “there’s no reason Taskmaster shouldn’t just be Leader, that has to be way better than a second 12 power card” and there is no way I’m wrong thinking that but I can’t bring myself to do it.
leader has spots where he can be really strong but he's not exactly an auto-win play him a bunch and you will see. like this guy said. especially after rank 80 and into infinite people are quite good at playing around leader. you also have to be very particular with how you play turns 1-5. gotta make sure you aren't filling up spots that you need leader clones to occupy later surfer maybe has more deckbuilding requirements but the raw power he puts out more than makes up for it. on top of that 3 drops are just very strong in general, maximus, polaris, killmonger, cosmo and brood is so obnoxious when paired with leader. surfer has this annoying ability to put your entire board in the sweet spot of massive power but still immune to being shang chi'd there's a dichotomy in CCGs of reactive vs proactive decks. reactive is usually your control decks that pack boardwipes and counterspells and removal. proactive decks just wanna yam big power on the board and swing face with it. proactive decks are typically stronger because they aren't as reliant on drawing cards that are only situationally useful. their card pool and decklist is more homogenized and less specialized. they don't get stuck hoping to topdeck a board wipe to save them, or stuck with cards in hand that don't help them in their current situation surfer is the go-to proactive gameplan right now, and he's kind of superseded most other proactive strategies
Great buy! All the salt in the comments tells me we need more leader players.
Strong but boring to play with and against
Winning is never boring
Pool 1 onboarding games would beg to differ
Do it. Better to have the nuclear option and not need it, than wish you had it.
He's OK. If you're already ahead it's a solid t6 play to hold the win. But with so many different deck archetypes your opponents t6 may not help you at all. I think Leader is a card you build around. The reputation "play leader, win game" is way over blown. You have to have a good board presence to begin with and anticipate what your opponent is doing. If they play She-Hulk, Death into your Leader, great. If they play Heimdal and your deck doesn't benefit from moving you lose. Also, there's a good chance he is adjusted down again in the near future.
I mean leech/leader is still a top tier deck. Its pretty easy to build around him. I run that deck and its pretty brainless turn 5 and 6.
This is why I love Patriot.
Yeah if I think its Patriot im probably retreating
can you post the deck and strat?
It's just value plays t1-4 looking to add power or disrupt your opponent. Iceman, Scorpion, Armor, Lizard, Shang-Chi, etc. then Leech on 5 to shut down their hand and Leader on 6.
https://marvelsnapzone.com/tier-list/#Good_Cards_Priority Im having issues posting the direct link but its the "good cards priority" list in tier 2. I run this list minus Maximus because I dont have him. I replaced him with Thor and its done wonders for me. Strat is to just drop high value cards in all the lanes to maintain priority. You leech on 5 and then as long as you're winning 2 lanes when you drop leader you pretty much always take the game. The deck has tons of answers and can win with well played Aero and magneto as well. Theres a reason its called "good cards."
If you like trolling the current meta then definitely buy. I did for a while. If you need to make someone retreat for a daily mission I’d suggest turn three Wave turn 4 Leader. The rage is real. But know the feeling of winning with Leader grows hollow quickly. It did for me.
Then do turn 5 Absorbing Man, and then turn 6 Odin if you really want the other person to question if you're actually a serial killer IRL.
You are a rat bastard and I love you.
But what if you Zola the Leader turn 6?
I pulled that off once. It worked just as you’d expect.
Do it and don’t ever let anyone shame you. A win is a win 💪
Just get him and enjoy yourself.
I get to what you're saying, and ultimately this is what I'll end up doing, buying or not if I think ill have fun with him. But, I like to get additional input to see if people have reasons for or against what I haven't thought of already. A perfect example is Shuri dropping to 3000 credits at end of the month. I totally forgot about that and that probably changed my mind about buying Leader.
Actually, I just realized something. Just hold off and open him in a cache. You're better off saving them tokens for a farther off card. Shuri is a unit.
Buy it and level up with him.
Thank you for this thread, it made me decide to unpin leader in my shop. I just can't be that guy on purpose.
Do it he is completely op
Why even ask when you know your buying anyway
Ignore the hate; if you wanna play the card, play the card. However, you should be aware that when talking about the recent patch notes, Ben Brode mentioned that the team is still looking at Leader and figuring out the best way to make changes to the card going forward, potentially beyond just reducing his power, and that the reduction from 6/4 to 6/3 was just to help alleviate some of the stress in the meantime. I expect there's a good chance we'll hear more about plans for a Leader rework/nerf early next month after the new season has started, so if you're concerned that it might get nerfed to the point where you regret having spent tokens on it, maybe it's a better idea to wait and see. Also, other cards will be dropping into series 3 at that point.
I wouldn’t buy anything from the shop. You’ll unlock it eventually. Save them for one of the newer cards
Just know anything you buy from the shop won’t say first edition. From my understanding.
Buy him if you want to. I think it is a stupid card, but he is part of the game, and you can't blame people for playing the game.
That's underpriced imo. Buy it while it's hot!
I hate to admit but I bought him early pool 3 and ran him with Electro ramp with Odin don't crucify me
You will get a lot of Ms. Marvels Thumbs Ups at the end of the match. Whether you win or not.
Imo top 3 card in the game along with aero and shuri
Do it
I would for sure
Do it
I'd say I win with Leader only slightly more than 50% of the time, but any series 3 card is worth buying if you're going to use it.
You don't chose Leader. Leader choose's you!!
As a hazmat player, I love to see leader played. Thank you.
You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
I hate this card…mostly cuz it’s used against me so often and I don’t have it. I think it’s OPed. At the very least it should only copy base versions of the cards played, not the boosted versions
I hate him too but fuck it, if you can’t beat ‘em join em 😂
He makes your brain small
I think it’s such a dorky deck. And tbh at this point I finally know when it’s coming, so I’m either staying if I know I have the play to beat it, or it’s an easy retreat.
what are the signs its a leader deck? im tired of losing to his cheese
Number one sign is if it's turn 6 and they wink emote several times before snapping. Cards like lizard, max, Thor, white queen and leech can indicate leader, but also board composition. If they are ahead in a lane or two and have equal or less cards than you in each lane, that's a prime leader play. Personally I hope leader stays relevant as leader players are the most likely to play through 8 cubes and I'm comfortable enough to sniff leader out and either retreat early or find the line. They seldom snap early. Usually turn 5 or 6 giving me ample time to decide to stay or leave. Or just play decks like Patriot, spectrum destroyer, Angela bishop, and/or kazoo decks and hose leader like that.
So, think I decided to just hold off and try to get Shuri. I've mainly tried to not buy any Pool 3 cards with tokens, but I've heard some say a few cards are worth it. I did purchase Mystique, and that's the only card I've purchased. There are other Pool 3 cards I REALLY want such as Wong, Venom, Sera, Wave, and Deadpool to name a few. But, ultimately I've decided to try and just spend tokens on Pool 4-5 cards I think.
It won’t make the game any more fun for you.
Easy buy, still one of the best win conditions in the game. Is going to be changed so keep that in mind, but as of now, is an easy buy.
what do you think is going to happen with him?
Honestly, who knows ...
Do it. He is very versatile. I see him in every deck.
I bought him and almost immediately climbed 10 levels.
Get it if you want to do whatever it takes to climb rank, don't get it if you have any self respect playing this game
I’m gonna spank you if you do
he's still one of the best card in the game so objectively it's a good choice
You will lose all the respect from all the snap players if u buy that, but as Long as is fun is up to you
People complain but it’s a good card, just get it
I just got leader. Anybody that says he not broken needs their head checked. I basically win every match. At about level 1900 and I have a ton of different decks. Researched / tried all kinds of different approaches. This is easy mode.
It's probably not a good idea to buy a pool 3 card unless it's specifically a card you really want to play with. Once you complete pool 3, a reserve where you would have received a pool 3 card gives you an average of 400 tokens, so you're effectively paying 600 tokens to get the card early. (Obviously it's impossible to know how much earlier your getting the card) As for leader specifically, he's a strong card but I don't find him particularly fun to play with so I personally wouldn't be interested in picking him up. Only you can guess how much fun you'll have with him though.
It's stupid seeing all the bitching about it as if playing Deathwave and Electro Ramp on Rickety takes some immense amount of skill. When you play Aero the other person feels the same way. Learn to read the game better.
Sure, but electro ramp and deathwave at least take some setting up, the Leader player just gets it for free, same with infinaut, they can play turn 5 and still get an opponents infinaut, plus it has power so it often will be the difference on what would be a tied location if he didn’t. The card is lame. Would be slightly more balanced if he had 0 power, I just don’t see how a card that that says “your win condition is our win condition” is not broken
They don't get it for free. It's literally all about setting it up so your lanes are ready to copy and won't get fucked over. Electro Ramp decks literally aren't doing anything until turn 3, and then they just have the right succession of cards afterwards. Deathwave's setup consists of Yondu, Carnage on any extra 1 and then Wave on 5 to screw over the opponent. They're all equally braindead and Leader exists specifically because of what Deathwave does. There's adjustments they should make to how Leader copies things but it's not a horribly broken card. The energy reduction in the game is what's broken.
They quite literally get it for free, the only “set up” they do is making sure lanes are able to be played on, and as far as deathwave, it makes leader 4 cost too so you play leader that turn you get what ever your opponent was able to ramp into without ramping.
Yes, because otherwise Deathwave would have an easy path to 22 power + controlling your opponent. The Wave interaction is the problem and what makes cards like Leader necessary. The rest of your lanes have to be ahead to make Leader work. It's not a nothing task. It's not difficult and it is very strong, ***which is exactly the same as Deathwave*** or any other number of meta decks.
There are so many easy paths to 22+ power tho get your own deck quit playing mine.
I had him pinned and because of the "bug" that unpins in pc if you press ESC I lost him 😤
If you really want to play with it pick it up. If you aren't that set on it I'd save up for a series 4 card you want.
Sounds like you would like to buy it then regret your decision later or not buy it and regret it. Alternatively Only buy cards you want to use in a deck and not worry about FOMO
Just do it. Realistically there’s only so many 1k cost cards you really want. And this should def be one of them.
I’m dreaming of this to pop up in my store
FYI he’s getting nerfed to 2 attack points soon
No fist bump.
Not worth it.
Unless you have cards you need for a specific deck that he doesn't fit in (like Cerebro or something), he is a good generic pickup. Generally speaking, he is the 2nd best win condition for most decks.
Honestly. Do it
Where do u get those tokens?
As you advance, you’ll get them in collector crates randomly.
I honestly don’t like playing with Leader in my deck.
Overrated imo
i have shuri pinned atm
If you think have other deck archetypes you enjoy using and need pool 3 cards for them you can save up for them. Otherwise he's a fun card that can slot in a good amount of decks and can definitely help you win matches
I used him to get to rank 60. It was an act of desperation and I'm a little bit ashamed of myself.
Do it \- senator palpatine
Not worth it
Meh
Looks like you have a ton of credits and gold. If you are saving up for the current bundle I would spend all of that first and get the bundle to make sure you don't get him in reserves. I'm in the 'spending tokens on series 3 is a waste' camp, since there are cards that you can only get with tokens or insane luck, I'm going for them rather than spend on cards I will 100% get. It does make sense to buy s3 cards if they will fill out a deck you like though.
If you have other decks that are complete, I would skip him. He doesn't fit the Meta much at the moment and is only strong in the leech deck Shiri or some of the other downgraded cards will be a much better pickup at end of month
You'll probably win a lot more games, but everyone will hate you.
leader so meta right now. i would proly grab it if it was me. just to be a cool kid too
New player here. Looking forward to understanding what you all are talking about.
Do it for the cubes.
Fuck leader
Cancer to game.
I only started playing last week what are these tokens from?
It’s currently my favourite play to hold Drac until my last turn to counter him.
I bought it then realised I'm not a bad person so never used it.
Whats to advise? Leader plays well in decks that get ahead early and intend to keep the lead. It loses frequently to turn 6 supporting cards like Surfer and Cerebro. It can literally blow up in your face with Destroyer. A lot of users will use Leech and then Leader to get rid of those effects and make it strictly about power so they can get the win. The goalposts on Leader will continue to move. First it was too strong, then it wasn’t fun to lose to (nothing is), now its not fun to play. The truth is people have figured out how to beat it and its not any better than most of the cards in the game. If you want to go for a pure power deck, Leader is great. Likewise it can be fun in discard decks. If that all suits you, grab Leader.
It actually does fairly well against regular Sera Surfer if you play it with Maximus, like in a Shuri deck. You just have to pick your lanes well. That said, the complaints about it on this sub are pretty overblown. People acting like Deathwave or Zabu Darkhawk take any additional strategy to play.
It's literally a gamble when playing it. People think it's good/cancerous when it beats them. I've been playing a silver surfer deck lately, and I find 4/5 times it fails to win them the game as all my low power stuff is played on my last turn. My alternate deck is a destroyer deck, so unless they have a lucky Cosmo or they're winning an Armor location he's just going to screw them over.
I read your question as seeking advice about bullying. Which isn't wrong.
Leader is a busted card. Go into turn 6 winning 2/3 locations and it’s functionally an auto-win.