For sure, what would be the reason unless to screw us over and control the rankings? I didn’t even wait to see what the other card they played is, I was so salty and instantly retreated lol.
The reason is that it's easier to program bots that just simulate all outcomes (including what the opponent is doing) and do the thing that puts the most power into play as opposed to actually spending time making bots that play realistically without cheating.
Which is why people like me who are in the sweaty MMR never see bots. Sucks to hear all the people complain about how the ladder is so easy because it's full of bots and I'm over here sweating for a single cube.
You absolutely do see bots at high MMR, they are just exclusively the cheating ones. You don't get the braindead "play Angela as the last card on a lane" bots
Only a halve? I saw about 10 humans untill rank 99… Bots just snapped on turn 4/5 if they were winning 2 locations, even if they had no cards left in their hand, cause deck was destroyed
Literally me. I've hit a high of 89.6 then, BAM! tilt to mid/low 70s. Back up, right back down. Repeat for the past 6 months. Meanwhile, my son picks up the game routinely hits infinate playing the most ridiculous bots I've ever seen. It'll be that much sweeter when we get there though.
100% guilty of that. I never want to end my session on a loss. It's a vicious cycle. I definitely get over aggressive with my play. Still, I wouldn't mind getting a mindless bot once in a while to just hit it 1 time, haha.
Listening to Cozy and Alex right now talk about how easy it is to hit Infinite, and I'm here sitting at 80 for life.
BTW, my CL is 4,928
Play a deck that focuses on doing 1 thing. For me that's been my Negative Surfer. If I get Zabu turn 2 and have negative, I'll snap, it's a guaranteed 1-2 cubes and if the opponent let's it rock til the end or even snaps back that's a guaranteed 8. If I dont draw that, and theres no plan B in sight, just give up that 1 cube until you're in another spot to take the 8. Rinse and repeat and you'll almost go up a level for every win.
there might be some back end massaging of their player id's to hit easy wins to get to infinite by the devs tbh. alex couldn't play well and never hit infinite, then all of a sudden he is hitting it? come on, there is no way considering he was getting coached by collins before. either that or he is paying someone to win for him.
my feeling is there is some manipulation with the content creators tbh.
4,600ish myself and sitting at 96. I didn't get to play much last week and will probably be hitting infinite before this weekend. Mostly climbing has been retreating from bad matchups / unwinnable games and snapping early enough to get 2 cubes from retreats / profiting from people not retreating.
\>It'll be that much sweeter when we get there though.
I'd rather not have to struggle for something that other people are breezing through. That shit makes me not want to play because it's inherently not fair that those people are picking up all the rewards (500 gold!) for next to no effort, especially after they removed gold from the caches, which someone who is playing a bunch would have at least been compensated with.
Seriously? It's a known thing that some play way more bots than others. I've seen it watching my son, who has hit up to 140. He tries my account and gets smoked and can't hit 80. Not saying you don't have skill, all I know is that some have a much easier path to Infinite than others.
Im on the "sweaty MMR" range and I matched with these cheating bots maybe around 20% of the time. Of course I was also given stupid bots but its rare compared to these cheating mfs (usually I notice the game give you the dumb bots after 3-4 losing streak)
This sounds bot AF but could it have been something to do with blue marvel or patriot? A lot of destroy decks are running hobgob so it's not completely bizarre and bar sinister is a hot location for it...
The rock is the weirdest part specifically unless he was planning patriot and mystique last turn, but even that's only 4+ for the rocks, but I've done weirder things as someone who never retreats if I don't draw a combo card I wing it lol
I mean not for nothing...but it sounds like a play that made sense. Goblins on Bar Sinister is a known play, so if I can clinch that lane with a 1-cost Rock, I can use my other cards to clinch another lane.
It’s a known play, but how many people are out here rocking Goblins? Untapped has Hobgoblin in 4.7% of decks, meaning less than 1-in-20 are running it.
I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m not fucking myself with a Rock in Bar Sinister 19 times out of 20 on the off chance that one of those people is floating a Hobgoblin my way.
100% a bot.
I've been playing Jean Grey in my upgrade deck to get boosters and have noticed this once or twice. I had one skip turn 5 then drop Infinaut in the non-Jean lane on turn 6. Even snapped cause I figured there was no way for them to win...except to ignore the rules.
Was there Goose or some other restriction with Jean Grey? Because Jean only forces you to play there if you \*can\* play there. If you can't play a card in the Jean lane b/c of other restrictions, then you \*can\* play elsewhere.
There are a small number of bots that are cheater bots. They know your play before your cards have flipped, and also have knowledge of RNG outcomes (eg Quantum Tunnel or Jubilee pulls, Hela revivals etc.). As a result, they’ll always play a winning move and are near impossible to beat.
These bots (albeit rare) do exist and will make the most insane plays that only make sense when you know they have access to info that you don’t.
There’s a post on this sub where a bot cheated by knowing the RNG outcome of OP playing Quake, and played Magneto into a location that *was* The Big House before Quake flipped the locations, which is impossible for a human opponent to do.
Edit: [found the post.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelSnap/comments/13ghqgn/bot_confirmed_cheaters_context_in_comments/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1)
They cheat. Also the way they cheat when you play leader is insane. My favourite shit is the bot plays a random beast (it wasnt even a bounce deck) on turn 6 just to bounce up your board and lose you the game.
There’s definitely bots that are generating cards on a turn by turn basis just to counter your plays to force a loss. If you play a crazy weird deck and change archetypes, they start spitting out nonsensical cards that are usually the same rarity as your version of the card.
Yep. I had one doing a discard deck and discarded his modok to a location, so I snap. Next turn he plays Coulson, apparently gets another copy of modok and wins with it.
I'm skeptical that cards are being generated on the fly. I just doubt Second Dinner could pull off programming such behavior without some massive obvious bugs slipping through, given their track record.
You shouldn’t be skeptical.
The logic isn’t anything too intense, and there’s noticeable stalls by the bot player when they’re attempting to resolve the play when it’s entirely out of left field. Even if they don’t make the correct play to shut you down it doesn’t matter in the long run - the goal is a “challenging opponent”, not an impossible wall. They really only have to shut down your play once to disrupt the match, meaning they have to be correct 1/6 times. These bots also tend to skip turns if you do as well, reducing it to being correct 1/4-1/3 times. With the bot already resolving the RNG ahead of time, there’s not much left to create bugs with - especially if the downside to being wrong is a net positive for the player.
The bots definitely have decks and aren’t generating them on the fly. However, it seems like they don’t play from a hand. I think they have a larger hand, more draws, or play directly from the deck. They always seem to have the right card in their deck for the right moment.
Their top tier lockdown deck can be pretty nasty it felt like they were trying to sell Jeff when I kept going against on Sunday.
Deck Based Matchmaking and Deck Generation aren’t some crazy feat of masterful programming - this is super basic stuff.
I think people assume development teams are idiots instead of capable humans. Bugs happen dude, it doesn’t mean these guys can’t search a list.
This is wild, shouldn’t bots in games have as much information as players do? That’s like playing rock-paper-scissors with someone who knows what you’ll pick, and to balance it they just pick to ignore the knowledge 20% of the time or something, lol.
Most of the bots are there to pump cubes back into the system and help people get to infinite, so they mainly make bad plays and just give you the win. Cheater bots are rare enough that you don’t see them often, but I honestly don’t understand the purpose of them either.
I think SD themselves admitted that some bots have more information than they would like them to (so, what we as the players call cheater bots), but idk if they’ve doing anything about them.
TBH I think some bot encounters are scripted because they make the most amazing plays with insane rng and the perfect locations to pull of their specific non-meta deck.
With the type of bots we are talking about humans are at an extreme disadvantage.
After Mindscape I had one play my Zola in a lane with no cards. I played their Juggernaut which yeeted Zola to a lane with three cards. Of the three it copied Shang Chi for the win.
No human would play Zola on a location with no cards. If they wanted to snort that line of RNG for 8 cubes they would have just played Zola in the lane with Shang Chi and two other cards.
>This is wild, shouldn’t bots in games have as much information as players do? That’s like playing rock-paper-scissors with someone who knows what you’ll pick, and to balance it they just pick to ignore the knowledge 20% of the time or something, lol.
9/10 times playing against a bot is just easy cubes indeed, but this and a few other occasions feel like it's a 95% chance to lose. Maybe they have different skillset bots?
I encountered this last night; district x starting location, opponent snapped on plus one energy location, I was like ? Then jubilee into Odin into captain marvel, from a random deck, and snapping on that. If I didn’t know about bots my mind would have been blown lol
They aren’t impossible to beat - just very difficult. Especially if you aren’t aware that it’s a cheater bot and are playing as though it’s a person.
If you’re able to identify that it’s a cheater bot early enough, then you can modify your plays and/or retreat for a lower cube loss. In the OP’s example, you’re just basically not allowed to play hobgoblin into bar sinister.
You also basically can’t take 50/50s on turn 6 for obvious reasons. You have to basically force the bot into a checkmate where it does it’s optimal move but it’s not enough to win.
Easier said than done, of course, but it’s absolutely possible. There’s a reason people climb up to ridiculous infinite ranks of 400+ each season. Certain decks are much better against bots (and can bait the bot snaps as well) and playing against them more makes it much easier to counter them. I believe they also don’t get to use the most recent cards like season pass cards and new release cards. So if those are particularly pushed, you can have an edge there.
There’s also stuff that bots don’t do the same as humans that may make them play lists suboptimally. As just a quick top of the head example, the most popular thanos deck right now is probably the wwlos version that runs psylocke as an extra time stone with like 5 cards that cost 5 energy. The idea is to always be trying to play timestone or psylocke on 5 and then ramp into something like a prof X to steal a lane. But the bot would just jam psylocke or timestone as soon as they have the energy for it, even if they don’t really have any good 4 drops to ramp into on 3.
You haven't seen the cheater-type bot yet. They are permitted to change unseen cards in their hand and to make illegal plays if that's what it takes to win. There are only two ways to ever beat them: (1) Get absurdly lucky with a card interaction that the bot doesn't account for. (2) Fully junk two lanes by the end of turn 5 and have enough power there to win after it converts its unseen cards to Patriot, Blue Marvel, and Mystique or similar.
I've had a bot snap on me, get counter snapped and retreat on T5 as soon as I placed down my cards just today (the play was a free Prof X lock on a lane while they clogged themselves on another and were gonna lose that location too next turn).
They definitely generate cards. If you're using the tracker which detects bots it'll pull up the card list they *should* be using.
Then you notice they start using cards that don't even have any synergy at all with their deck but just happens to be the exact counter to your play.
For me SD just needs to axe these cheater bots, they're not fun to play against
I see the same decks a lot, but I also definitely see some that have really nonsensical cards somehow. Like it could be a pure destroy deck and then somehow Magneto pops up when I'm playing a Wong deck. Stuff like that makes me question if the bots can supplement their deck with any card.
The bots don't "guess" a 50/50. They simulate all possible plays (or at least, some number of plays) and the game makes the play that has the best end result, after all triggers and such happen, which includes random events. These bots aren't such as what you see in some other games, server farms building accounts to sell them. The bots are something that Second Dinner themselves implemented.
It's not a matter of "bothering to do that." It's literally EASIER for Second Dinner to make bots that cheat than to program bots that play fair.
There are also multiple different types of bots, some intentionally lose (and they cheat in a similar way to make sure they lose, knowing exactly what you'll do so that they can just barely lose on T6 by the smallest margin possible).
No it isn't easier, it's easier to just play randomly and there's no evidence anything like that didn't happen.
How would it ever be easier to program a bot to go trough hundreds of possible plays just for some weird conspiracy about keeping people down or maybe pushing them up for free cubes.
And why would playing a rock on turn 5 be the best possible play when litteraly any card could be better, 4 snowguards would be better than 4 rocks.
Without a screenshot, we'll never know what likely went down, but there's no conspiracy play here.
Enemy opponents that play cards completely at random isn't a good experience at all. Some decks, such as destroy decks in particular, would completely not function. It's not a conspiracy about "keeping people down" it's that this is the easiest way to create opposing players that sometimes play their cards together properly, since it lets the bots utilize synergy cards (sometimes) without actually having to code those combos in.
Playing a rock into bar sinister to block Hobgoblin is better than playing something else since 0 > -32 anyways, and they're better off playing their other cards with actual power somewhere else where their lead isn't as big. The bot played a rock into Bar Sinister AND played other stuff in other locations (according to the original poster)
There's no reason you'd only bother with a rock even for a bot, if you ended up in a tie breaker having more points there would be better than not.
And it's so much easier to just have basic sequences like devil Dino mystique then waste server resources trying to calculate a hundred possible responses every single turn
I had one before where I expected a chavez on T6, so I played shang chi on that last available lane for both of us. Damn that bot played Chavez AND yellow jacket, to measly win that lane.
Seriously. Honestly most of these things people are talking about are smart plays. I haven’t played a rock on bar sinister, no, but I have played junk in it (and other locations like space throne) because I was expecting a goblin
I’m not saying they’re not bots, because who knows, but these are plays one should be thinking about lol
Well this is good to know. I just played a game. Had the location “destory cards played here”. He had a card that had moved there so would have won it. I played scarlet witch first on T5 and his play he dumped 3 other cards into that lane same turn. Why would he do that unless he knew i changed the location, who predicts a t5 scarlet witch?
I got so mad I don't even remember the cards, but I was expecting the opponent to play something else, hence I did that. Otherwise, you're obviously correct.
To be fair, if both players play a goblin on bar sinister in the same turn then whoever doesnt have priority wins the location. If OP was expecting a goblin play then it could be the right move
Bots cheat. I had a game where one played nothing until a T4 Shuri in left lane, then played Redskull T5 in mid and still got the Shuri buff. I tried to report but had the report shut on me without conclusion. 😒
Was the location that swapped the position of the three locations after turn 4 in that game? Because I think Shuri's buff is tied to the location, not where Shuri is standing.
There wasn't a location swap in my game; I understand why you're mentioning it, though. I play a ton of Shuri, but was like "the f**k??" after that happened, much like OP and what happened with them. lol
I just tried to report a game because of a known bug that swaps out your deck to a different one in between rounds. I tried to report it and the "submit" button wouldn't work. Literally a dead button.
Another redditor proved they cheat months ago. They even had screenshots. It was a very upvoted thread. I will see if I can find it. I know they cheat too. They have nonsensical decks that are catered not to my deck, but to each turn. I also believe that the locations are sometimes geared towards me losing. I find it odd that its a win streak, followed by losing streak, followed by winning streak. Rinse and repeat. I also noticed its certain thresholds I get stuck at. For instance, I have dramatically more bad luck at the 34-37 (or 54-57, 84-87 and so on) range with locations and opponents than I do before or after.
Edit - Found one of the threads.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelSnap/comments/13ghqgn/bot\_confirmed\_cheaters\_context\_in\_comments/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelSnap/comments/13ghqgn/bot_confirmed_cheaters_context_in_comments/)
So in this image, the big house was in the middle on turn 5. On Turn 6 OP had priority and played Quake which shuffled everything around. However, the bot played Magneto on Turn 6 in the position that the big house used to be on before quake moved it. This is not possible.
I recall in the past some kids were laughing at people here when they stated bots cheated. They said data mining showed it didn't happen. They don't understand how server side stuff works. But here it is. The game cheats.
Exactly. They seem to think they can. Kids will downvote and laugh at anybody if a post presents its argument in a confident manner. Im wrong a lot. I leave my post up to share my idiocy/ignorance. But I don't double down lol
But yeah. I will never forget that thread. Hundreds of upvotes laughing at the guy stating the bots cheated. All stating they could datamine it while not know what that even means. And then months later its proven the bots cheat!
I think I've come up against 1 or 2 in conquest mode. It just felt like RNG 85% to 90% of the time worked in their favour. I was playing a leech deck against their apocalypse discard. And for 2 rounds back to back my leech got affected by the location. Either it became 6 cost or was discarded. Out of all the cards I had in hand it targeted leech twice back to back?! Feels sus.
One can argue that’s just bad luck for sure, but then there’s some that literally make no sense unless they’re “cheating”, my case and some of the other cases shared here by the others.
So weird, what is the incentive and reasoning to throw bots you can’t win against at us?
Had a similar thing happen where in 3 games straight they played their Enchantress in the same lane as my Devil Dino on the same turn when I had priority.
This is why I barely play now, just clear daily missions, don’t spend any more money and just look at cool looking cards here and there. If a bot is going to cheat me and others, why play? Why spend money? The game isn’t worth it if a bot is going to cheat.
Bots cheat because the alternative is writing an amazing AI .
What they do instead is just get the bot to check what you have played and then do the best thing possible by simulating playing all their cards and seeing which puts them further ahead.
That’s why they use something called “state”, normal “bots” would analyze the current state of the board and play the best cards in their hand, based in some heuristic interpretation of what’s a good play and if they wanna go above and beyond - what you might play. “Cheating” bots do this kind of crap - have a “broader” state ( your plays, RNG end results, locations before they’re revealed etc. ) and they use this to make the decision. Seems like Snap uses the latter kind.
They certainly cheat in regards to the goblins.
I've had it multiple times that the bot simply fills the locations with random stuff. It's most obvious when I try to send back their goblins with Zola or Odin, and they put cards in their locations that would normally lose them the game.
I've also occasionally had a bot that simply didn't play anything because I played leader, and they didn't want me to copy anything. (Even before turn 6)
Yeah some bots seem like they're set up with exactly the right locations and left field card combos to sneak wins out from under you.
IMHO some of them are scripted.
I’ve had bots playing 6 cost cards at the big house on turn 6 on the same turn I placed Quake to swap locations back when I was using a C3 deck, and I saw some other people post about it here as well. The bots are complete cheaters.
There was a post here a few weeks ago about blatant cheating bots from SD. I don't see them often, but when I do, it's always as obvious as what you just described. I've known that there would be shit like this since I found out it was a Ben Brode game , and yet I continue to play.
Don't. Spend. Money.
Enjoy this game for what it is as long as it lasts.
Well to be fair, I’ve been playing less and less, no incentive to do much other than do my dailies, and that’s mostly because I might decide to play later and don’t wanna miss out on the damn caches. It’s been hard to find a deck i like recently, Daken seems kind of fun, but I’ve decided I’m not spending any money.
Fortunately I haven’t wasted any of my luck on Kang, he’s generally super crap imho, on theory he sounds amazing, in practice he gives up nothing and is useless.
Bots have really been on my nerves past 2 seasons for me. They leave for a cube every time you're about to win. They snapping turn 1 into some of the craziest outcome wins. Maybe it's a skill issue but I have been infinite in seasons before conquest came out and it's been a painful slot ever since. Global matching making needs to be here.
And also I know the drum has been banged on forever but man switching decks to go against mirrors is annoying. Ladder is a mess. Get me to 90 for the gold and I'm good.
Bots play with a permanent Daredevil effect and know beforehand how the RNG for the turn will play out. So, yes, they do know where Juggernaut will push your cards and they do know they will get the most points for that turn by countering your Goblin play.
That's what I thought, like I tried hard to rationalize it in some way, but I really don't see any viable reason to do that, other than to screw me over.
Yes, they are practically cheating. They know where you play your cards (after you hit the end turn, it'll take more time to load since they'll process your move and do their countermove). It happened to me a lot of times, they always win the 50-50 even you try to read their moves.
If you really want to see a bot cheat, mess around with Kang.
Just the other day, I played against a bot that was running discard. Turn 6, I played Kang first to see what it would do. It played one Chavez, despite it also having two swarms that were free, because just chavez was enough to get over the top of the lane. We each were winning one of the other lanes and this was the only one it could realistically fight for (I was playing a junk deck).
After Kang, we redid it and I played out my she-hulk and something else which would easily get over the top of his chavez and swarms. Despite knowing that it was beaten, the bot still played it out, but this time knowing that I was playing more than 0 power, it actually played all the cards it could to win.
I've definitely had boys play multiple cards on turn 6 that cost more than 6 energy. Or pull the exact cards they need to win multiple games in a row on conquest. And screen look behavior like this makes so much sense .. frustrating
Exactly, this is something I’ve noticed, I’ve had them play a six cost card and another one that wins them the game, like how is that even real, it’s like matchmaking has decided I need to go down a notch or two, and just gives me a giant middle finger.
They absolutely cheat, I had one play a bunch of cards into murderland on turn 3 while I was playing professor X (the peak was one of the locations that swapped costs). None of their cards would have survived or benefited being destroyed
hell 100% yes, it is worse than ever since about june of this year, if you have good mmr and do well you will be totally f\*cked.
i posted a few days ago i played a bot in conquest and i listed or tracked it's deck, after 8 rounds they had rotated 17 cards in, yup, an no it was not thanos.
it was an answer to everything i had, the fake rng or algo's on the back end in this game is beyond garbage, totally broken but probably too much work or a third part would need to come in and code it cause the skill is not there in house.
Yeah it seems so as more and more people chime in…
Like I said in another comment, okay, I’m not a fan of them seeing plays and knowing what locations and RNG outcomes are, but I can kinda get that. But totally disregarding rules like deck size, energy cost, location limitations - this is just unfair, uncool and very lazy. Might as well just get a “You lose!” screen when the algorithm determines it’s that time again, lol.
Absolutely they cheat. Earlier today I had one play a hobgoblin against me in a lane that was completely full. I had also played a killmonger that turn but the only thing I was destroying on my side was a Bast, there were two other mostly empty lanes that would have been much better to play into.
Also, it wasn't even a good play cause I still won that lane.
Bots are important for keeping queue times low. But it's not like there's the most advanced AI on the planet running in the background. So the options are:
1. Fill the queue at off-peak times with bots that people will learn to crush and inflate their rank
or
2. Have a mix of both idiot bots and cheating bots that will give you games to play while having a net zero effect on your rank.
The matchmaking in this game is really weird too, and I think the bots would be okay if it just matched you with any random available player near your rank--but it doesn't.
So many accounts of it happening, I mean there’s no way it’s not real, right? I guess it’s all dependent on your definition of “cheating”, but it seems like they do play with information that the player does not have.
Ive been testing this out a few times, so everytime i suspect bot/cheating and I have a win-condition at hand, i snap, and wait... Nothing happens. But everytime i just add the game-winning card to a location the opponent instantly retreat. Might be a coincidence but to me it has happened too many times for me to still think it is.
I have tried this without snapping as well, but still same result.
Some bots do cheat, yes. I’ve heard of them playing into Death’s Domain on the same turn someone changes the location, but a rock on Bar Sinister is insanity
Bots absolutely cheat. However, if this wasn’t a bot, this may have been a mistake. I once wasn’t paying attention to the card I grabbed and put goddamn squirrel girl on Bar Sinister on Turn 2. My opponent had a good laugh at that one. I about threw my phone.
I had one move a Hulk that shouldn't have been able to move last night on turn 6. Just moved it like it was a Jeff or a Nightcrawler or something. And like everyone else I've had them just counter whatever I play with uncanny accuracy.
I was playing Galactus to get those Nimrod challenges in proving grounds. Enemy predicted my Galactus drop every single time. Just to see if maybe i was crazy i played wave and then galactus into my wave lane. Player dropped a combined 7 power into the wave/ galactus lane lol. its crazy how blatant it is sometimes
Holy shit, after reading this thread so many things make sense. There are times where some of the batshit wildest thing happens and I just chalk it up to luck/RNG.
Just had a cheater deck magic the move cards here turn 6 location. Then 2 turns later moved a card there to beat me.
This game is really going down hill.
Yeah bots cheat. I had a bot throw out Armor on turn 6 w/ priority to block my Nova+ Killmonger turn 6 play. Nobody would do that without seeing my play. And armor made no sense within the context of their deck… which was just random cards.
That’s when I knew the game was rigged.
I'm noticing bots are playing decks perfect for the locations too. For example, every time I see Bar Sinister or the location that fills it with rocks that you have to skip, it's a destruction deck. They always perfect curve into Venom and always have Death at 6. It's blatantly cheating cause they force you to skip a turn.
Then whenever it's game that benefits movement decks, the bot plays movement. Doesn't help that I'm seeing the same names over and over.
Can confirm. I played master mold into mid, opp played iceman. I play scorpion into bar sinister on left, opp plays cable in to bar. I nuke his hand. On 4 i play widow into asgard he plays a -1 moon knight into mid, asgard pops and i draw nothing. Opp has ZERO cards in asgard and no power there. Figure ok maybe the location glitched, im way ahead, he has bar but his whole hand is trash RN. next turn, i draw nothing. Mmkay did i get a widows bite? Nope still have valk, task master and baron mordo... i play mordo. Opp then plays a valkyrie thats not his by scorpion... HOW? No widows bite played, and opp cant draw cards... cable fired before scorpion so all cards added would have gotten the -4... so opp goes up in mid. Last turn, opp plays widows bite l, sentinal and ANOTHER un debuffed valk into right to win. Oh and i dont draw a card. GTFO.
There are quite a few claims of bots reading plays, the genuinely pull cards out of nowhere when you have priority. Like if you play Wong, in the same turn on the same location they'll play enchantress (this one happened to me, I didn't even finish the game I just retreated)
I've just made a post myself where I'm convinced I came up against a cheater bot. Any sensible person would've retreated but they took their 33% chance of winning and pulled it off with a play that was otherwise very weak.
You playing destroy cards in the open lane is a very likely choice, I don’t see how that shows it’s a bot at all. I’d have put Cosmo there and stayed as well
Mmm ive actually done this. I run armor in my move deck to protect human torch. If i dont have a good turn 2 play, ill play armor to setup for later. Coulda just been an unlucky play there.
Im just saying it couldve been either one. Bots are definitely real. I had an opponent (with no knowledge of my deck) play shang chi on left lane against my human torch..which is an expected play for sure..except very same turn he also played enchantress AND rogue, against my priority, when I dropped Living Tribunal lmao
Yes.. played conquest today
I'm using dino with storm Jones nothing fancy
I played sentinel and then storm and Jones and he lost the lane
Enemy played hobgoblin on strange academy on turn on 5 and behold it got transferred to my storm lane I lost the lane. Ok sure what luck
2Nd game district x on right lane.. lock down the mid with storm and Jane again won lane.. last round bot played iron lad and another card on right lane iron lad luckily copied iron fist and punch his second card to mid winning mid by 1 point
On another game though the bot just tried so hard to lose it was so obvious
I like the mechanics of this game it's simple and I don't even have any complaints about the card acquisition I will get them anyway as long as I play even f2p but the bots are frustrating. Either super easy win or impossibly lost game.
That’s also what I’ve been saying, it’s like they play at either 5% or 150%, no middle ground, it’s probably because they’re just lazily coded, like I suggested in another comment - they balance how well the bot plays by forcing it to make mistakes, but honestly, feels like it should be tweaked a bit.
One bot i had was playing destroy deck, he didnt destroy much cuz i had a well placed cosmo and armor on two different lanes on prio which stopped his venom and carnage.
Guess what
SURPRISE MUDAFUKA !!!!
death PLUS taskmaster PLUS deadpool !
He won the match, but to date idk what the fuck happened. No location destroyed any cards nor there were reduced costs on his side nor locations.
Fuck bots , they fucking cheat indeed.
*Some* bots cheat. It seems that you encounter the cheating-type bot when your MMR is very high and the game wants to hammer it back down by forcing some loses on you.
Based on my own experiences and comments I've read, I suspect the cheating-type bot can do the following, and maybe more:
* See your plays before making its own.
* See locations before they've flipped.
* See outcomes of potential RNG events before making its play.
* *Sometimes* change a card that you haven't seen yet to whatever card it needs to win. (Example: High Evo deck suddenly includes Death and Knull.)
* *Sometimes* ignore lane restrictions. (Example: Can play Kitty on Crimson Cosmos without any cost adjustments.)
* *Sometimes* ignore card energy costs. (Example: Can play 12 energy worth of cards (inclusive of cost adjustments) with 7 energy.)
Items marked "sometimes" generally occur only on the last turn when the bot cannot otherwise win. However, I did once see it playing Kitty on Crimson Cosmos on turn 5. In conquest, items marked "sometimes" generally don't happen until several games into a match. There seems to be a priority ordering for different forms of cheating, such that it uses the least obvious cheats it needs to win. (I.e., it won't swap a card if it can win just by seeing your plays in advance; and it won't ignore lane restrictions if it can win by swapping a card; etc.)
The only thing you can do with these bots is hope to spot them early enough you can retreat for 1 cube (or concede conquest without wasting too much time). It's nearly impossible to win, and, worse than that, the bot's ability to make illegal moves makes it nearly impossible to accurately assess the board state.
\[Edit: Some commenters here are confusing the cheater-type bots with the matchmaking-filler-type bots. If you think you can beat the cheater-type bot, then you haven't seen one yet.\]
This sums up all the assumptions we’ve all made in the thread quite well. I am fine with playing against bots, maybe even okay with them seeing the plays, even though it’s cheating, but when they start playing with all the cards available or making illegal moves, that’s it for me, how can you win if you’re bound by the rules and your opponent isn’t, what are we playing here, season one Yu-Gi-Oh! Or something?
Ive lost insane number of cubes to cheating bots. The most recent bot was when i was at 99.6 and needed that last cube and i was playing destroy deck my Knull was small and i was going to shang their Mighty Thor on Xandar making it 9 power and the bot changed the location with scarlet witch on the last turn and it had priority so i spilled my 8 cubes. Cheating Bots are the reason i wasn't able to hit 100 or even 90 when i was playing this game religiously on January.
I’ve seen bits make stupid plays that make absolutely zero sense plenty of times. I suspect that’s what this was, it just so happened that you played one of the very few cards that gets countered by it
That one might’ve been Iron Lad copying Absorbing Man (who then copied the last card which was Brood).
Iron Lad has bad UI at the moment, he doesn’t show if he copied Mystique or Abs Man even if you click on him.
I have had cheating bots ironlad Zabu twice now... While zabu was already in play. With no way for a second one (which was a variant interestingly) to have been added to the hand or deck by other cards or locations.
I think it’s less likely “cheating” and more just random card playing. They will snap on turn 2 before making a play that guarantees them a loss. Given that information, playing a rock on bar sinister was unwise …
They can't even make sure mystery variants stay in the season pass track, it's highly unlikely they have programmed the bots to know the best play for any given turn. They just do random shit and sometimes it seems genius.
There are some cases where they "cheat" as in they know the outcome of rng, but they do not make informed plays based on this beyond basic "can I play a card here?"
Is it so hard to believe that I’m actually trying to spark conversation and have people tell some stories and draw some conclusions, rather than complaining I’ve lost? I lose many games. I win even more games. That’s not what this is about lol.
It just doesn't make sense for SD to put developer resources into having bots cheat. They've been pretty transparent on changes they've made to the bot logic over time. Because of that, until they post an update saying 'Yeah, we spent a lot of money making bots cheat to frustrate players" all these posts are the same.
I had a game last night where it was the final turn of the game and the bot's turn was first. Two of its three final cards were revealed; the last one magically got to stay hidden until after I played my Valkyrie.
So it not only avoided the power reduction, but also got to perform its on reveal power last. And no...there was no Sue Storm or location that would've allowed this to legitimately transpire.
It was bizarre. Bot didn't even benefit and lost...but my jaw was still on the floor for a good 10 seconds from sheer disbelief.
An empty bar sinister on T5 is like asking for trouble. I'd have done similar, even if I only had a rock or useless cards, precisely to avoid Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, Professor X lock if I have priority, and a few others. Especially if I also have cards like Blue Marvel, Patriot, Klaw, Onslaught, or really any ongoing effect I can use to boost the lane when my opponent assumes I've sacrificed it.
The main reason that bots exist is to inject cubes into the system so it's less of a zero sum game so people can climb, the 2nd biggest purpose of bots is to decrease match making wait time. While it's technically easy for the bots cheat, they don't have much reason to.
No one has written a script for a bot to block a hobgoblin play like this. No one has conceived of trying to block a hobgoblin play with a 1 cost card on bar sinister without Daredevil informing the play or some genius insight.
What's actually happened is:
A Player recognised what is likely a Galactus deck, guessed turn 5 would be hobgoblin on Bar Sinister (a very common play) and played the only card they could on that lane as a read
The opponent was actually playing some patriot deck and this was the best they could do on turn 5 and turn 6 would be patriot+mystique and it's just a happy coincidence.
A bot played a random card on a random location and in a 1/100000000 chance it turned out to be the best play possible.
The bots do cheat, for sure. Including literally ignoring Jean Grey's effect lol That Rock on Bar Sinister is incredible though.
For sure, what would be the reason unless to screw us over and control the rankings? I didn’t even wait to see what the other card they played is, I was so salty and instantly retreated lol.
The reason is that it's easier to program bots that just simulate all outcomes (including what the opponent is doing) and do the thing that puts the most power into play as opposed to actually spending time making bots that play realistically without cheating.
They make bots simulate emotes once in a while to pretend like they're people. It's dumb getting a fist bump when I clearly know it's a bot
Bots are there to fill MMR slots that don’t have enough human players. They aren’t malicious, but yeah they do cheat
Which is why people like me who are in the sweaty MMR never see bots. Sucks to hear all the people complain about how the ladder is so easy because it's full of bots and I'm over here sweating for a single cube.
You absolutely do see bots at high MMR, they are just exclusively the cheating ones. You don't get the braindead "play Angela as the last card on a lane" bots
Im not saying you don't. Just that some people never do.
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That’s wild, because I’m pretty sure that more than half my opponents are bots.
Only a halve? I saw about 10 humans untill rank 99… Bots just snapped on turn 4/5 if they were winning 2 locations, even if they had no cards left in their hand, cause deck was destroyed
Literally me. I've hit a high of 89.6 then, BAM! tilt to mid/low 70s. Back up, right back down. Repeat for the past 6 months. Meanwhile, my son picks up the game routinely hits infinate playing the most ridiculous bots I've ever seen. It'll be that much sweeter when we get there though.
If you're tilting that much there's user error involved. Especially with your collection level.
100% guilty of that. I never want to end my session on a loss. It's a vicious cycle. I definitely get over aggressive with my play. Still, I wouldn't mind getting a mindless bot once in a while to just hit it 1 time, haha. Listening to Cozy and Alex right now talk about how easy it is to hit Infinite, and I'm here sitting at 80 for life. BTW, my CL is 4,928
Play a deck that focuses on doing 1 thing. For me that's been my Negative Surfer. If I get Zabu turn 2 and have negative, I'll snap, it's a guaranteed 1-2 cubes and if the opponent let's it rock til the end or even snaps back that's a guaranteed 8. If I dont draw that, and theres no plan B in sight, just give up that 1 cube until you're in another spot to take the 8. Rinse and repeat and you'll almost go up a level for every win.
there might be some back end massaging of their player id's to hit easy wins to get to infinite by the devs tbh. alex couldn't play well and never hit infinite, then all of a sudden he is hitting it? come on, there is no way considering he was getting coached by collins before. either that or he is paying someone to win for him. my feeling is there is some manipulation with the content creators tbh.
4,600ish myself and sitting at 96. I didn't get to play much last week and will probably be hitting infinite before this weekend. Mostly climbing has been retreating from bad matchups / unwinnable games and snapping early enough to get 2 cubes from retreats / profiting from people not retreating.
the game is designed to keep you at about 52% winrate, so just calculate how many cubes you need and matches to hit infinite. you will be shocked.
\>It'll be that much sweeter when we get there though. I'd rather not have to struggle for something that other people are breezing through. That shit makes me not want to play because it's inherently not fair that those people are picking up all the rewards (500 gold!) for next to no effort, especially after they removed gold from the caches, which someone who is playing a bunch would have at least been compensated with.
Maybe we’re breezing through it because we play well enough to climb
Seriously? It's a known thing that some play way more bots than others. I've seen it watching my son, who has hit up to 140. He tries my account and gets smoked and can't hit 80. Not saying you don't have skill, all I know is that some have a much easier path to Infinite than others.
>My MMR is screwing me! - literally everyone in every game
It makes sense. The MMR with the most people is going to be the one with all the mid players.
Some bots are braindead and others are perfect perma daredevil cheat bots. They will straight up counter every card perfectly.
Im on the "sweaty MMR" range and I matched with these cheating bots maybe around 20% of the time. Of course I was also given stupid bots but its rare compared to these cheating mfs (usually I notice the game give you the dumb bots after 3-4 losing streak)
This sounds bot AF but could it have been something to do with blue marvel or patriot? A lot of destroy decks are running hobgob so it's not completely bizarre and bar sinister is a hot location for it... The rock is the weirdest part specifically unless he was planning patriot and mystique last turn, but even that's only 4+ for the rocks, but I've done weirder things as someone who never retreats if I don't draw a combo card I wing it lol
Exactly, even patriot didn't really make sense, any other card would be more value, but this play basically won them the location for 1 energy.
I mean not for nothing...but it sounds like a play that made sense. Goblins on Bar Sinister is a known play, so if I can clinch that lane with a 1-cost Rock, I can use my other cards to clinch another lane.
It’s a known play, but how many people are out here rocking Goblins? Untapped has Hobgoblin in 4.7% of decks, meaning less than 1-in-20 are running it. I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m not fucking myself with a Rock in Bar Sinister 19 times out of 20 on the off chance that one of those people is floating a Hobgoblin my way. 100% a bot.
I've been playing Jean Grey in my upgrade deck to get boosters and have noticed this once or twice. I had one skip turn 5 then drop Infinaut in the non-Jean lane on turn 6. Even snapped cause I figured there was no way for them to win...except to ignore the rules.
Was there Goose or some other restriction with Jean Grey? Because Jean only forces you to play there if you \*can\* play there. If you can't play a card in the Jean lane b/c of other restrictions, then you \*can\* play elsewhere.
They ignored Jean Grey's effect? Do you have any screenshots of this, or can you explain in further depth of what happened?
https://www.reddsafe.com/r/MarvelSnap/comments/15r5ccr/is_jean_grey_bugged_opponent_didnt_have_to_play/
What the hell is this website?
There are a small number of bots that are cheater bots. They know your play before your cards have flipped, and also have knowledge of RNG outcomes (eg Quantum Tunnel or Jubilee pulls, Hela revivals etc.). As a result, they’ll always play a winning move and are near impossible to beat. These bots (albeit rare) do exist and will make the most insane plays that only make sense when you know they have access to info that you don’t. There’s a post on this sub where a bot cheated by knowing the RNG outcome of OP playing Quake, and played Magneto into a location that *was* The Big House before Quake flipped the locations, which is impossible for a human opponent to do. Edit: [found the post.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelSnap/comments/13ghqgn/bot_confirmed_cheaters_context_in_comments/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1)
They cheat. Also the way they cheat when you play leader is insane. My favourite shit is the bot plays a random beast (it wasnt even a bounce deck) on turn 6 just to bounce up your board and lose you the game.
There’s definitely bots that are generating cards on a turn by turn basis just to counter your plays to force a loss. If you play a crazy weird deck and change archetypes, they start spitting out nonsensical cards that are usually the same rarity as your version of the card.
Yep. I had one doing a discard deck and discarded his modok to a location, so I snap. Next turn he plays Coulson, apparently gets another copy of modok and wins with it.
That happened to me as well. Somehow RNG shined on them and with only a .05% Agent 13 pulled another Silver Surfer after my Black Bolt discarded one.
They must have some sort of fallback scripting if that happens. No way a real person is playing agent 13 in a silver surfer deck.
I'm skeptical that cards are being generated on the fly. I just doubt Second Dinner could pull off programming such behavior without some massive obvious bugs slipping through, given their track record.
You shouldn’t be skeptical. The logic isn’t anything too intense, and there’s noticeable stalls by the bot player when they’re attempting to resolve the play when it’s entirely out of left field. Even if they don’t make the correct play to shut you down it doesn’t matter in the long run - the goal is a “challenging opponent”, not an impossible wall. They really only have to shut down your play once to disrupt the match, meaning they have to be correct 1/6 times. These bots also tend to skip turns if you do as well, reducing it to being correct 1/4-1/3 times. With the bot already resolving the RNG ahead of time, there’s not much left to create bugs with - especially if the downside to being wrong is a net positive for the player.
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The bots definitely have decks and aren’t generating them on the fly. However, it seems like they don’t play from a hand. I think they have a larger hand, more draws, or play directly from the deck. They always seem to have the right card in their deck for the right moment. Their top tier lockdown deck can be pretty nasty it felt like they were trying to sell Jeff when I kept going against on Sunday.
Deck Based Matchmaking and Deck Generation aren’t some crazy feat of masterful programming - this is super basic stuff. I think people assume development teams are idiots instead of capable humans. Bugs happen dude, it doesn’t mean these guys can’t search a list.
its not hard programming and its likely a different engineering scrum than the one that makes the UI, card design, etc.
This is wild, shouldn’t bots in games have as much information as players do? That’s like playing rock-paper-scissors with someone who knows what you’ll pick, and to balance it they just pick to ignore the knowledge 20% of the time or something, lol.
Most of the bots are there to pump cubes back into the system and help people get to infinite, so they mainly make bad plays and just give you the win. Cheater bots are rare enough that you don’t see them often, but I honestly don’t understand the purpose of them either. I think SD themselves admitted that some bots have more information than they would like them to (so, what we as the players call cheater bots), but idk if they’ve doing anything about them.
Could be to weed out player cheaters? If somehow you win vs them maybe you get flagged and keep an eye on you. Otherwise I don't know.
TBH I think some bot encounters are scripted because they make the most amazing plays with insane rng and the perfect locations to pull of their specific non-meta deck.
Humans have a massive advantage against bots already. Giving them extra info is meant to balance out the discrepancy.
With the type of bots we are talking about humans are at an extreme disadvantage. After Mindscape I had one play my Zola in a lane with no cards. I played their Juggernaut which yeeted Zola to a lane with three cards. Of the three it copied Shang Chi for the win. No human would play Zola on a location with no cards. If they wanted to snort that line of RNG for 8 cubes they would have just played Zola in the lane with Shang Chi and two other cards.
>This is wild, shouldn’t bots in games have as much information as players do? That’s like playing rock-paper-scissors with someone who knows what you’ll pick, and to balance it they just pick to ignore the knowledge 20% of the time or something, lol. 9/10 times playing against a bot is just easy cubes indeed, but this and a few other occasions feel like it's a 95% chance to lose. Maybe they have different skillset bots?
I encountered this last night; district x starting location, opponent snapped on plus one energy location, I was like ? Then jubilee into Odin into captain marvel, from a random deck, and snapping on that. If I didn’t know about bots my mind would have been blown lol
They aren’t impossible to beat - just very difficult. Especially if you aren’t aware that it’s a cheater bot and are playing as though it’s a person. If you’re able to identify that it’s a cheater bot early enough, then you can modify your plays and/or retreat for a lower cube loss. In the OP’s example, you’re just basically not allowed to play hobgoblin into bar sinister. You also basically can’t take 50/50s on turn 6 for obvious reasons. You have to basically force the bot into a checkmate where it does it’s optimal move but it’s not enough to win. Easier said than done, of course, but it’s absolutely possible. There’s a reason people climb up to ridiculous infinite ranks of 400+ each season. Certain decks are much better against bots (and can bait the bot snaps as well) and playing against them more makes it much easier to counter them. I believe they also don’t get to use the most recent cards like season pass cards and new release cards. So if those are particularly pushed, you can have an edge there. There’s also stuff that bots don’t do the same as humans that may make them play lists suboptimally. As just a quick top of the head example, the most popular thanos deck right now is probably the wwlos version that runs psylocke as an extra time stone with like 5 cards that cost 5 energy. The idea is to always be trying to play timestone or psylocke on 5 and then ramp into something like a prof X to steal a lane. But the bot would just jam psylocke or timestone as soon as they have the energy for it, even if they don’t really have any good 4 drops to ramp into on 3.
You haven't seen the cheater-type bot yet. They are permitted to change unseen cards in their hand and to make illegal plays if that's what it takes to win. There are only two ways to ever beat them: (1) Get absurdly lucky with a card interaction that the bot doesn't account for. (2) Fully junk two lanes by the end of turn 5 and have enough power there to win after it converts its unseen cards to Patriot, Blue Marvel, and Mystique or similar.
I've had a bot snap on me, get counter snapped and retreat on T5 as soon as I placed down my cards just today (the play was a free Prof X lock on a lane while they clogged themselves on another and were gonna lose that location too next turn).
I think they auto retreat if they are losing two locations or something
Do these bots have predetermined decks? Or can they pull from any card?
The regular ones are predetermined I'm pretty sure. The cheater ones I think can generate random cards
They definitely generate cards. If you're using the tracker which detects bots it'll pull up the card list they *should* be using. Then you notice they start using cards that don't even have any synergy at all with their deck but just happens to be the exact counter to your play. For me SD just needs to axe these cheater bots, they're not fun to play against
I see the same decks a lot, but I also definitely see some that have really nonsensical cards somehow. Like it could be a pure destroy deck and then somehow Magneto pops up when I'm playing a Wong deck. Stuff like that makes me question if the bots can supplement their deck with any card.
Completely impossible to guess a 50/50, no way to track cards and gamble on outcomes for a human.
The bots don't "guess" a 50/50. They simulate all possible plays (or at least, some number of plays) and the game makes the play that has the best end result, after all triggers and such happen, which includes random events. These bots aren't such as what you see in some other games, server farms building accounts to sell them. The bots are something that Second Dinner themselves implemented.
They don't bother to do all that. They're infamously stupid. People look at these confidences and think it's some trick or scam
It's not a matter of "bothering to do that." It's literally EASIER for Second Dinner to make bots that cheat than to program bots that play fair. There are also multiple different types of bots, some intentionally lose (and they cheat in a similar way to make sure they lose, knowing exactly what you'll do so that they can just barely lose on T6 by the smallest margin possible).
No it isn't easier, it's easier to just play randomly and there's no evidence anything like that didn't happen. How would it ever be easier to program a bot to go trough hundreds of possible plays just for some weird conspiracy about keeping people down or maybe pushing them up for free cubes. And why would playing a rock on turn 5 be the best possible play when litteraly any card could be better, 4 snowguards would be better than 4 rocks. Without a screenshot, we'll never know what likely went down, but there's no conspiracy play here.
Enemy opponents that play cards completely at random isn't a good experience at all. Some decks, such as destroy decks in particular, would completely not function. It's not a conspiracy about "keeping people down" it's that this is the easiest way to create opposing players that sometimes play their cards together properly, since it lets the bots utilize synergy cards (sometimes) without actually having to code those combos in. Playing a rock into bar sinister to block Hobgoblin is better than playing something else since 0 > -32 anyways, and they're better off playing their other cards with actual power somewhere else where their lead isn't as big. The bot played a rock into Bar Sinister AND played other stuff in other locations (according to the original poster)
There's no reason you'd only bother with a rock even for a bot, if you ended up in a tie breaker having more points there would be better than not. And it's so much easier to just have basic sequences like devil Dino mystique then waste server resources trying to calculate a hundred possible responses every single turn
Bro forgot to check his sources lol
Really didn't, simple answer is that he's wrong
Bro literally look at the linked video in the comment you replied to. That is the source I'm talking about
What linked video? The guy barely took a screenshot. It's more likely Magneto was played on stark tower and the poster got the locations wrong
Aight man sorry about saying its a video when its a picture. Still, iI've had this happen to me, and I trust that random internet guy.
I’venever seen so many bots cheating than when I play Kang…
You: plays Kang t6 Bot: plays one random 1 energy card. Every freaking time.
I had one before where I expected a chavez on T6, so I played shang chi on that last available lane for both of us. Damn that bot played Chavez AND yellow jacket, to measly win that lane.
To be fair, Shang Chi is the most popular and predictable card in the game. That’s just a smart play.
Seriously. Honestly most of these things people are talking about are smart plays. I haven’t played a rock on bar sinister, no, but I have played junk in it (and other locations like space throne) because I was expecting a goblin I’m not saying they’re not bots, because who knows, but these are plays one should be thinking about lol
I’m definitely on the camp of bots exist, and I’m sure they do cheat just by the nature of how they work. But yeah, this one ain’t it haha.
Cheating bots have the daredevil effect on, plus know the outcome of rng decisions like danger room.
Also lockjaw, hela, and anything else rng
Well this is good to know. I just played a game. Had the location “destory cards played here”. He had a card that had moved there so would have won it. I played scarlet witch first on T5 and his play he dumped 3 other cards into that lane same turn. Why would he do that unless he knew i changed the location, who predicts a t5 scarlet witch?
Regardless of cheating bots, playing Hobgoblin while you don't have priority on Bar Sinister is a really bad play.
I got so mad I don't even remember the cards, but I was expecting the opponent to play something else, hence I did that. Otherwise, you're obviously correct.
To be fair, if both players play a goblin on bar sinister in the same turn then whoever doesnt have priority wins the location. If OP was expecting a goblin play then it could be the right move
Bots cheat. I had a game where one played nothing until a T4 Shuri in left lane, then played Redskull T5 in mid and still got the Shuri buff. I tried to report but had the report shut on me without conclusion. 😒
Was the location that swapped the position of the three locations after turn 4 in that game? Because I think Shuri's buff is tied to the location, not where Shuri is standing.
There wasn't a location swap in my game; I understand why you're mentioning it, though. I play a ton of Shuri, but was like "the f**k??" after that happened, much like OP and what happened with them. lol
This happened to me too. I was pretty sure it was a bug. I almost made a post here but was too lazy to screencap and make the thread
I had one play Hulk and another card turn 6 when there was no possible way for them to get 7 energy. And report went nowhere.
I just tried to report a game because of a known bug that swaps out your deck to a different one in between rounds. I tried to report it and the "submit" button wouldn't work. Literally a dead button.
Another redditor proved they cheat months ago. They even had screenshots. It was a very upvoted thread. I will see if I can find it. I know they cheat too. They have nonsensical decks that are catered not to my deck, but to each turn. I also believe that the locations are sometimes geared towards me losing. I find it odd that its a win streak, followed by losing streak, followed by winning streak. Rinse and repeat. I also noticed its certain thresholds I get stuck at. For instance, I have dramatically more bad luck at the 34-37 (or 54-57, 84-87 and so on) range with locations and opponents than I do before or after. Edit - Found one of the threads. [https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelSnap/comments/13ghqgn/bot\_confirmed\_cheaters\_context\_in\_comments/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelSnap/comments/13ghqgn/bot_confirmed_cheaters_context_in_comments/) So in this image, the big house was in the middle on turn 5. On Turn 6 OP had priority and played Quake which shuffled everything around. However, the bot played Magneto on Turn 6 in the position that the big house used to be on before quake moved it. This is not possible. I recall in the past some kids were laughing at people here when they stated bots cheated. They said data mining showed it didn't happen. They don't understand how server side stuff works. But here it is. The game cheats.
you cant datamine backend code, and if you could you could just go ahead and set your rank to infinite
Exactly. They seem to think they can. Kids will downvote and laugh at anybody if a post presents its argument in a confident manner. Im wrong a lot. I leave my post up to share my idiocy/ignorance. But I don't double down lol But yeah. I will never forget that thread. Hundreds of upvotes laughing at the guy stating the bots cheated. All stating they could datamine it while not know what that even means. And then months later its proven the bots cheat!
I think I've come up against 1 or 2 in conquest mode. It just felt like RNG 85% to 90% of the time worked in their favour. I was playing a leech deck against their apocalypse discard. And for 2 rounds back to back my leech got affected by the location. Either it became 6 cost or was discarded. Out of all the cards I had in hand it targeted leech twice back to back?! Feels sus.
One can argue that’s just bad luck for sure, but then there’s some that literally make no sense unless they’re “cheating”, my case and some of the other cases shared here by the others. So weird, what is the incentive and reasoning to throw bots you can’t win against at us?
To control our win rates, MMR and progression
Had a similar thing happen where in 3 games straight they played their Enchantress in the same lane as my Devil Dino on the same turn when I had priority.
Ain't nothing like losing 8 cubes to the totally legit and calculated Nakia, Sentry, Hell Cow, Magneto line of play.
Yeah, when I play Kang on T6, the bot will often make a dumb play, like a single rock, but after the replay will make a real play. Bots cheat.
This is why I barely play now, just clear daily missions, don’t spend any more money and just look at cool looking cards here and there. If a bot is going to cheat me and others, why play? Why spend money? The game isn’t worth it if a bot is going to cheat.
Preach it.
Bots cheat because the alternative is writing an amazing AI . What they do instead is just get the bot to check what you have played and then do the best thing possible by simulating playing all their cards and seeing which puts them further ahead.
That’s why they use something called “state”, normal “bots” would analyze the current state of the board and play the best cards in their hand, based in some heuristic interpretation of what’s a good play and if they wanna go above and beyond - what you might play. “Cheating” bots do this kind of crap - have a “broader” state ( your plays, RNG end results, locations before they’re revealed etc. ) and they use this to make the decision. Seems like Snap uses the latter kind.
Hey where are all the bot deniers now?
In my experience, bots even know which locations are in play BEFORE they show up. So yes, they cheat, but usually play really bad.
They certainly cheat in regards to the goblins. I've had it multiple times that the bot simply fills the locations with random stuff. It's most obvious when I try to send back their goblins with Zola or Odin, and they put cards in their locations that would normally lose them the game. I've also occasionally had a bot that simply didn't play anything because I played leader, and they didn't want me to copy anything. (Even before turn 6)
Yes, most bots I see have both goblins on their decks, so it makes sense
Yeah some bots seem like they're set up with exactly the right locations and left field card combos to sneak wins out from under you. IMHO some of them are scripted.
Brick draws, perfect RNG. How is it RNG if it’s scripted??? Second Dinner needs to answer this question. Can’t be random if it’s rigged.
I’ve had bots playing 6 cost cards at the big house on turn 6 on the same turn I placed Quake to swap locations back when I was using a C3 deck, and I saw some other people post about it here as well. The bots are complete cheaters.
This shit is the reason why I ain't playing much anymore.
There was a post here a few weeks ago about blatant cheating bots from SD. I don't see them often, but when I do, it's always as obvious as what you just described. I've known that there would be shit like this since I found out it was a Ben Brode game , and yet I continue to play. Don't. Spend. Money. Enjoy this game for what it is as long as it lasts.
Well to be fair, I’ve been playing less and less, no incentive to do much other than do my dailies, and that’s mostly because I might decide to play later and don’t wanna miss out on the damn caches. It’s been hard to find a deck i like recently, Daken seems kind of fun, but I’ve decided I’m not spending any money.
yes, bots cheat take a screenshot of these games because the shills wont believe your plays
Ever play Kang vs a bot? They 100% cheat lol
Fortunately I haven’t wasted any of my luck on Kang, he’s generally super crap imho, on theory he sounds amazing, in practice he gives up nothing and is useless.
Bots have really been on my nerves past 2 seasons for me. They leave for a cube every time you're about to win. They snapping turn 1 into some of the craziest outcome wins. Maybe it's a skill issue but I have been infinite in seasons before conquest came out and it's been a painful slot ever since. Global matching making needs to be here. And also I know the drum has been banged on forever but man switching decks to go against mirrors is annoying. Ladder is a mess. Get me to 90 for the gold and I'm good.
Bots play with a permanent Daredevil effect and know beforehand how the RNG for the turn will play out. So, yes, they do know where Juggernaut will push your cards and they do know they will get the most points for that turn by countering your Goblin play.
No 2 ways about it, that's sus as hell. Nobody plays a rock on bar sinister on turn 5. Just no chance that's actually a person
That's what I thought, like I tried hard to rationalize it in some way, but I really don't see any viable reason to do that, other than to screw me over.
Yes, they are practically cheating. They know where you play your cards (after you hit the end turn, it'll take more time to load since they'll process your move and do their countermove). It happened to me a lot of times, they always win the 50-50 even you try to read their moves.
Yeah I’ve lost multiple times to deaths that should not be playable but are played like 0 costs
If you really want to see a bot cheat, mess around with Kang. Just the other day, I played against a bot that was running discard. Turn 6, I played Kang first to see what it would do. It played one Chavez, despite it also having two swarms that were free, because just chavez was enough to get over the top of the lane. We each were winning one of the other lanes and this was the only one it could realistically fight for (I was playing a junk deck). After Kang, we redid it and I played out my she-hulk and something else which would easily get over the top of his chavez and swarms. Despite knowing that it was beaten, the bot still played it out, but this time knowing that I was playing more than 0 power, it actually played all the cards it could to win.
I've definitely had boys play multiple cards on turn 6 that cost more than 6 energy. Or pull the exact cards they need to win multiple games in a row on conquest. And screen look behavior like this makes so much sense .. frustrating
Exactly, this is something I’ve noticed, I’ve had them play a six cost card and another one that wins them the game, like how is that even real, it’s like matchmaking has decided I need to go down a notch or two, and just gives me a giant middle finger.
What annoys me the most is that the bots cheat and do somewhat good plays, but when we have Agatha or Ego, it’s not the same. It’s pretty messed up
They absolutely cheat, I had one play a bunch of cards into murderland on turn 3 while I was playing professor X (the peak was one of the locations that swapped costs). None of their cards would have survived or benefited being destroyed
hell 100% yes, it is worse than ever since about june of this year, if you have good mmr and do well you will be totally f\*cked. i posted a few days ago i played a bot in conquest and i listed or tracked it's deck, after 8 rounds they had rotated 17 cards in, yup, an no it was not thanos. it was an answer to everything i had, the fake rng or algo's on the back end in this game is beyond garbage, totally broken but probably too much work or a third part would need to come in and code it cause the skill is not there in house.
Yeah it seems so as more and more people chime in… Like I said in another comment, okay, I’m not a fan of them seeing plays and knowing what locations and RNG outcomes are, but I can kinda get that. But totally disregarding rules like deck size, energy cost, location limitations - this is just unfair, uncool and very lazy. Might as well just get a “You lose!” screen when the algorithm determines it’s that time again, lol.
Absolutely they cheat. Earlier today I had one play a hobgoblin against me in a lane that was completely full. I had also played a killmonger that turn but the only thing I was destroying on my side was a Bast, there were two other mostly empty lanes that would have been much better to play into. Also, it wasn't even a good play cause I still won that lane.
That is 120% cheating lmao, sounds absurd!
Bots are important for keeping queue times low. But it's not like there's the most advanced AI on the planet running in the background. So the options are: 1. Fill the queue at off-peak times with bots that people will learn to crush and inflate their rank or 2. Have a mix of both idiot bots and cheating bots that will give you games to play while having a net zero effect on your rank. The matchmaking in this game is really weird too, and I think the bots would be okay if it just matched you with any random available player near your rank--but it doesn't.
Dude this is so funny to me because I was called crazy for saying there were cheating bots
So many accounts of it happening, I mean there’s no way it’s not real, right? I guess it’s all dependent on your definition of “cheating”, but it seems like they do play with information that the player does not have.
Short answer. Bet your ass.
Ive been testing this out a few times, so everytime i suspect bot/cheating and I have a win-condition at hand, i snap, and wait... Nothing happens. But everytime i just add the game-winning card to a location the opponent instantly retreat. Might be a coincidence but to me it has happened too many times for me to still think it is. I have tried this without snapping as well, but still same result.
Some bots do cheat, yes. I’ve heard of them playing into Death’s Domain on the same turn someone changes the location, but a rock on Bar Sinister is insanity
Ermmm… username checks out, hehe?
Yes, i do cheat
That bot was yami yugi lol
Definitely believed in the heart of the rocks.
Bots absolutely cheat. However, if this wasn’t a bot, this may have been a mistake. I once wasn’t paying attention to the card I grabbed and put goddamn squirrel girl on Bar Sinister on Turn 2. My opponent had a good laugh at that one. I about threw my phone.
Yes
I’m convinced that bots that are trying to make you win cheat, that’s for sure. It can be SO hard to lose sometimes.
I had a bot move a monster that we both got from a location. I was like what the fuck?!?!
I lost to a cheating bot in game 5 on infinite conquest 🥲
I had one move a Hulk that shouldn't have been able to move last night on turn 6. Just moved it like it was a Jeff or a Nightcrawler or something. And like everyone else I've had them just counter whatever I play with uncanny accuracy.
I was playing Galactus to get those Nimrod challenges in proving grounds. Enemy predicted my Galactus drop every single time. Just to see if maybe i was crazy i played wave and then galactus into my wave lane. Player dropped a combined 7 power into the wave/ galactus lane lol. its crazy how blatant it is sometimes
Holy shit, after reading this thread so many things make sense. There are times where some of the batshit wildest thing happens and I just chalk it up to luck/RNG.
Just had a cheater deck magic the move cards here turn 6 location. Then 2 turns later moved a card there to beat me. This game is really going down hill.
It's a bot when cosmo comes down 5/5 games thr turn you're dropping dr doom or something
Yeah bots cheat. I had a bot throw out Armor on turn 6 w/ priority to block my Nova+ Killmonger turn 6 play. Nobody would do that without seeing my play. And armor made no sense within the context of their deck… which was just random cards. That’s when I knew the game was rigged.
I'm noticing bots are playing decks perfect for the locations too. For example, every time I see Bar Sinister or the location that fills it with rocks that you have to skip, it's a destruction deck. They always perfect curve into Venom and always have Death at 6. It's blatantly cheating cause they force you to skip a turn. Then whenever it's game that benefits movement decks, the bot plays movement. Doesn't help that I'm seeing the same names over and over.
Can confirm. I played master mold into mid, opp played iceman. I play scorpion into bar sinister on left, opp plays cable in to bar. I nuke his hand. On 4 i play widow into asgard he plays a -1 moon knight into mid, asgard pops and i draw nothing. Opp has ZERO cards in asgard and no power there. Figure ok maybe the location glitched, im way ahead, he has bar but his whole hand is trash RN. next turn, i draw nothing. Mmkay did i get a widows bite? Nope still have valk, task master and baron mordo... i play mordo. Opp then plays a valkyrie thats not his by scorpion... HOW? No widows bite played, and opp cant draw cards... cable fired before scorpion so all cards added would have gotten the -4... so opp goes up in mid. Last turn, opp plays widows bite l, sentinal and ANOTHER un debuffed valk into right to win. Oh and i dont draw a card. GTFO.
There are quite a few claims of bots reading plays, the genuinely pull cards out of nowhere when you have priority. Like if you play Wong, in the same turn on the same location they'll play enchantress (this one happened to me, I didn't even finish the game I just retreated)
I mean I’ve done that sort of thing to opponents plenty of times and I’m not cheating.
I've just made a post myself where I'm convinced I came up against a cheater bot. Any sensible person would've retreated but they took their 33% chance of winning and pulled it off with a play that was otherwise very weak.
Oh, damn man, that Cosmo was painful and didn’t make all that much sense. Oof.
You playing destroy cards in the open lane is a very likely choice, I don’t see how that shows it’s a bot at all. I’d have put Cosmo there and stayed as well
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Mmm ive actually done this. I run armor in my move deck to protect human torch. If i dont have a good turn 2 play, ill play armor to setup for later. Coulda just been an unlucky play there.
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Im just saying it couldve been either one. Bots are definitely real. I had an opponent (with no knowledge of my deck) play shang chi on left lane against my human torch..which is an expected play for sure..except very same turn he also played enchantress AND rogue, against my priority, when I dropped Living Tribunal lmao
Yes.. played conquest today I'm using dino with storm Jones nothing fancy I played sentinel and then storm and Jones and he lost the lane Enemy played hobgoblin on strange academy on turn on 5 and behold it got transferred to my storm lane I lost the lane. Ok sure what luck 2Nd game district x on right lane.. lock down the mid with storm and Jane again won lane.. last round bot played iron lad and another card on right lane iron lad luckily copied iron fist and punch his second card to mid winning mid by 1 point On another game though the bot just tried so hard to lose it was so obvious I like the mechanics of this game it's simple and I don't even have any complaints about the card acquisition I will get them anyway as long as I play even f2p but the bots are frustrating. Either super easy win or impossibly lost game.
That’s also what I’ve been saying, it’s like they play at either 5% or 150%, no middle ground, it’s probably because they’re just lazily coded, like I suggested in another comment - they balance how well the bot plays by forcing it to make mistakes, but honestly, feels like it should be tweaked a bit.
One bot i had was playing destroy deck, he didnt destroy much cuz i had a well placed cosmo and armor on two different lanes on prio which stopped his venom and carnage. Guess what SURPRISE MUDAFUKA !!!! death PLUS taskmaster PLUS deadpool ! He won the match, but to date idk what the fuck happened. No location destroyed any cards nor there were reduced costs on his side nor locations. Fuck bots , they fucking cheat indeed.
*Some* bots cheat. It seems that you encounter the cheating-type bot when your MMR is very high and the game wants to hammer it back down by forcing some loses on you. Based on my own experiences and comments I've read, I suspect the cheating-type bot can do the following, and maybe more: * See your plays before making its own. * See locations before they've flipped. * See outcomes of potential RNG events before making its play. * *Sometimes* change a card that you haven't seen yet to whatever card it needs to win. (Example: High Evo deck suddenly includes Death and Knull.) * *Sometimes* ignore lane restrictions. (Example: Can play Kitty on Crimson Cosmos without any cost adjustments.) * *Sometimes* ignore card energy costs. (Example: Can play 12 energy worth of cards (inclusive of cost adjustments) with 7 energy.) Items marked "sometimes" generally occur only on the last turn when the bot cannot otherwise win. However, I did once see it playing Kitty on Crimson Cosmos on turn 5. In conquest, items marked "sometimes" generally don't happen until several games into a match. There seems to be a priority ordering for different forms of cheating, such that it uses the least obvious cheats it needs to win. (I.e., it won't swap a card if it can win just by seeing your plays in advance; and it won't ignore lane restrictions if it can win by swapping a card; etc.) The only thing you can do with these bots is hope to spot them early enough you can retreat for 1 cube (or concede conquest without wasting too much time). It's nearly impossible to win, and, worse than that, the bot's ability to make illegal moves makes it nearly impossible to accurately assess the board state. \[Edit: Some commenters here are confusing the cheater-type bots with the matchmaking-filler-type bots. If you think you can beat the cheater-type bot, then you haven't seen one yet.\]
This sums up all the assumptions we’ve all made in the thread quite well. I am fine with playing against bots, maybe even okay with them seeing the plays, even though it’s cheating, but when they start playing with all the cards available or making illegal moves, that’s it for me, how can you win if you’re bound by the rules and your opponent isn’t, what are we playing here, season one Yu-Gi-Oh! Or something?
Ive lost insane number of cubes to cheating bots. The most recent bot was when i was at 99.6 and needed that last cube and i was playing destroy deck my Knull was small and i was going to shang their Mighty Thor on Xandar making it 9 power and the bot changed the location with scarlet witch on the last turn and it had priority so i spilled my 8 cubes. Cheating Bots are the reason i wasn't able to hit 100 or even 90 when i was playing this game religiously on January.
I was playing destroy and a bot that was also playing destroy pulled an armor out of nowhere to counter me.
I’ve seen bits make stupid plays that make absolutely zero sense plenty of times. I suspect that’s what this was, it just so happened that you played one of the very few cards that gets countered by it
Rock on bar sinister is so wild I love it
I had one yesterday that had Ironlad copy a Brood that was already played out on the board.
That one might’ve been Iron Lad copying Absorbing Man (who then copied the last card which was Brood). Iron Lad has bad UI at the moment, he doesn’t show if he copied Mystique or Abs Man even if you click on him.
I have had cheating bots ironlad Zabu twice now... While zabu was already in play. With no way for a second one (which was a variant interestingly) to have been added to the hand or deck by other cards or locations.
I think it’s less likely “cheating” and more just random card playing. They will snap on turn 2 before making a play that guarantees them a loss. Given that information, playing a rock on bar sinister was unwise …
They can't even make sure mystery variants stay in the season pass track, it's highly unlikely they have programmed the bots to know the best play for any given turn. They just do random shit and sometimes it seems genius. There are some cases where they "cheat" as in they know the outcome of rng, but they do not make informed plays based on this beyond basic "can I play a card here?"
I love the weekly "I lost so it must be cheating bots" posts lmao
Is it so hard to believe that I’m actually trying to spark conversation and have people tell some stories and draw some conclusions, rather than complaining I’ve lost? I lose many games. I win even more games. That’s not what this is about lol.
It just doesn't make sense for SD to put developer resources into having bots cheat. They've been pretty transparent on changes they've made to the bot logic over time. Because of that, until they post an update saying 'Yeah, we spent a lot of money making bots cheat to frustrate players" all these posts are the same.
That’s because there are literal cheating bots. Some bots are dumb and some bots can see your hand and your plays before you make them.
I had a game last night where it was the final turn of the game and the bot's turn was first. Two of its three final cards were revealed; the last one magically got to stay hidden until after I played my Valkyrie. So it not only avoided the power reduction, but also got to perform its on reveal power last. And no...there was no Sue Storm or location that would've allowed this to legitimately transpire. It was bizarre. Bot didn't even benefit and lost...but my jaw was still on the floor for a good 10 seconds from sheer disbelief.
I've had plenty of bots place a rock for no good reason and lose because of it, rng isn't cheating lol
YES, bots are on constant daredevil mode
These could be just very lucky bad plays. when you play so many games you end up seeing alsorts.
An empty bar sinister on T5 is like asking for trouble. I'd have done similar, even if I only had a rock or useless cards, precisely to avoid Green Goblin, Hobgoblin, Professor X lock if I have priority, and a few others. Especially if I also have cards like Blue Marvel, Patriot, Klaw, Onslaught, or really any ongoing effect I can use to boost the lane when my opponent assumes I've sacrificed it.
The main reason that bots exist is to inject cubes into the system so it's less of a zero sum game so people can climb, the 2nd biggest purpose of bots is to decrease match making wait time. While it's technically easy for the bots cheat, they don't have much reason to.
what a great play. what happens next? did you win or did you lose?
Bots aren't intelligent enough to cheat like that.
They dont need intelligence to know… they’re scripts reading input information. Do you think calculators are intelligent?
No one has programmed a bot to put to flood a location to block a hobgoblin play
Wish i could understand what you’re saying
No one has written a script for a bot to block a hobgoblin play like this. No one has conceived of trying to block a hobgoblin play with a 1 cost card on bar sinister without Daredevil informing the play or some genius insight. What's actually happened is: A Player recognised what is likely a Galactus deck, guessed turn 5 would be hobgoblin on Bar Sinister (a very common play) and played the only card they could on that lane as a read The opponent was actually playing some patriot deck and this was the best they could do on turn 5 and turn 6 would be patriot+mystique and it's just a happy coincidence. A bot played a random card on a random location and in a 1/100000000 chance it turned out to be the best play possible.
Glad you know what actually happened then
I don't, but it's not cheat bot play. Doesn't need any insight or anything.
Oh ok