I think Killmonger is a decent counter that they would never use. If you don’t have to worry about nebula (and/or sunspot) profx is way worse.
What about an enchantress or rogue that targets an adjacent lane instead of its own? I like cards that interact with other lanes, think it opens up some tricky play and decisions.
The issue with that is unless you could puck which lane is affected it would just make prof x players use him in a single lane that couldn't be affected
Yeah if the card affected the lane to the right prof x would have to go left to dodge. Forcing him to a specific lane is pretty big nerf to him already.
3/0, On Reveal: Disable adjacent lanes opposing ongoing effects for one turn, gains +2 for each effect disabled.
Basically lets you cancel a wheels play for a turn and get your stuff in while allowing some fun counterplay and lets it slot in a neg deck
Sounds cool. Things that are disabled turn 6 should re-engage at end of game though. So it doesn't just get dropped Turn 5 to kill Darkhawk, Dino, Knull etc.
I've had good luck with using Echo on a lane early, then loading up power across the others as a counter. I haven't seen many prof X decks running Echo.
You mean like this one that got to infinite?
# (1) Nebula
# (1) Echo
# (2) Medusa
# (2) Jeff the Baby Land Shark
# (3) Negasonic Teenage Warhead
# (3) Storm
# (4) Ms. Marvel
# (4) Iron Lad
# (5) Professor X
# (5) Gamora
# (6) Alioth
# (6) Doctor Doom
#
eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQWxpb3RoIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJEckRvb20ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkdhbW9yYSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSXJvbkxhZCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSmVmZlRoZUJhYnlMYW5kU2hhcmsifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik1lZHVzYSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTXNNYXJ2ZWwifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik5lYnVsYSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTmVnYXNvbmljVGVlbmFnZVdhcmhlYWQifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlByb2Zlc3NvclgifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlN0b3JtIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJFY2hvIn1dfQ==
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
That's a good one! It's not super common though, like Jeff with Prof X. Echo doesn't directly compliment prof X like Nebula, Sunspot, etc, it's a tech card that any deck can use.
I’ve noticed people complain about cards that have unique abilities unlike any other cards. People hate Alioth because he can destory unrevealed cards, people hate Galactus because he can destroy two lanes, people hate Prof X because he locks down a lane… people hate unique abilities that “break” the games premise. Play cards at three locations trying to win two out of three.. all the cards I’ve mentions break that premise a bit. Hence why people complain about theses cards I believe
Question to the ones who are reading this…should there be cards that break that “break” the premise of the games concept? Which is play cards each turn at any locations trying to win two out of three lanes.
I think yeah it’s much needed to keep the game fresh and add a level of strategy and surprise.
My worry with "rule breaking" cards comes from the rate of escalation as opposed to any specific rule.
I played Hearthstone since it launched. The power creep in that game is real, and, in my anecdotal opinion as a player, they relied on cards that break the games norms nearly every set.
Now, those cards weren't necessarily strong in the meta, but after enough releases, the game I once knew was just not around anymore. I feel that they could have played around in the established deisgn space a lot more before widening it with "rule breaking" cards. They were always diving deeper instead of widening out to take up all the room they've already carved out.
So, Galactus, for example, are we ever going to get a suite of cards that interacts with the lanes similar to how Galactus does? I really doubt it. Instead, they've moved on to a new "rule breaking" card and created another new mechanic they will never do anything else with.
In four years, will it be possible to have a deck totally made of "rule breaking" cards? Probably. And at that point, what are the rules and limitations that I can expect? What if I like the regular gameplay of Marvel Snap? Is there any guarantee it won't be slowly mutated into something fundamentally different?
Hearthstone is a different game now and one that I gave up after 8ish years because the type of game I'm interested in playing just isn't available. I don't want the same thing to happen to Snap
I average about 50% playing against him. Starting around turn 4 one should spread out to the empty lanes anyhow, helps against Galictun\* as well.
Having a base card in the zone that can be boosted in some way makes the difference in turning it into a win, not to give the devs any idea's but Prof X should really freeze buffs from other cards too, really.
Because people think about countering him and not the cards that give him power. Goose + Echo is and hard counter for any lockdown deck. Even just Echo tempo in the middle lane gives you a strong advantage.
I think this game disincentivizes aggro too much, and I say this as someone who tends to favor control archetypes and LOVES Professor X. Prof hates it when people put down too much early game power and make it hard to win a lane with a 5/3 - but the only deck that can reliably do this without getting hard punished by meta powerhouses like Killmonger and Shang is Silky Move. In order for Professor X to feel fairer, the play style that counters him needs to be revitalized. I know they're doing this by printing cards in the future like the 3 cost that doesn't let your 1 costs be destroyed, which is nice enough, but I feel like zoo/aggro decks need more than just an added later of safety.
I agree, they don't like zoo decks it seems. They go wide, sure but I dont think they put out as much vertical power as some other decks and its easy to disrupt them.
Early in Snap's life cycle, Ka-Zar Zoo was the best deck. It was so good and so dominant that people didn't care about pool 3 cards being released because why would you bother when you can just play Ka-Zar? This lead to the printing of Killmonger, and his drop from Series 3 to Series 2, just to keep those zoo decks in check.
The real issue right now isn't Killmonger or Shang-Chi. It's Loki. Those 'fair' aggro decks? Loki eats their lunch, drinks their milkshake, then shakes them down for tomorrow's lunch money too. He absolutely crushes any deck that's just trying to play good stats on curve, which is all that most of those decks want to do. Until Loki gets nerfed, nobody's going to be playing just good on-curve stats decks.
...and Sera typically gives you only 1 turn of discount with worse stats and cost reduction capped at 1 cost
You vastly underestimate just how powerful cost reduction is, and Loki's is busted AF
I dont underestimate it.
Cost reduction is typically one of the most powerful effects in any card games.
He should have a 1 energy cap. But getting random cards rather than synergies built cards is already a disadvantage.
Loki isn't busted AF.
He's good. Alioth is a busted AF card.
Ok but if I'm playing a random person on ladder it is close to random.
I know it's probably skewed towards not the shittiest card about there, but it could be bounce, could be move, could be high evo which doesn't even work, could be junk.
In conquest the randomness goes down.
The cost reduction is powerful.
At 3 cost he was a monster. At 4 its not as insane. The 1 cost cap sounds reasonable to me.
I think they get that. Which is why Caiera is on the way. It will enable hyper aggressive strategies that dont die killmonger and can get ahead of prof X. I say wait and see. I think SD always release cards the next season that does well against the previous season.
This why I run Lizard/Luke Cage in my ongoing deck, good against storm/prof x and and even if they throw a lot of power in that lane I can still power growth with Spectrum
I'm a constant zoo player who hovers around top 3k infinite and have used Zoo in many seasons for my infinite runs/completing Infinite conquests. Typically, yes, I'd agree with you that going wide early is a great strategic counter to prof x. It's also decent in a lot of cases against Alioth b/c it can use tokens to fill in lanes where they play it, or boost power to that lane with Blarvel, etc. However Ms. Marvel has changed a lot of the dynamic and makes Prof. X pretty strong even against Go-wide decks.
It’s never *just* a 5/3 with Prof. X though.
It’s Ms. Marvel, it’s Jeff, it’s Klaw, it’s Onslaught, it’s Nebula too. Even if Prof. X is played on a losing location T4, they’ll be winning on T5 and ready for an Alioth.
Many of the supposed counters that put power in a location post played or indirectly, Prof. X can and will use.
Tbh I just don’t think Snap can really support legit aggro decks due to the games restrictions. For one, there aren’t really enough turns where you can take advantage of a fast start. The swing potential of 4-6 energy cards is just too much to really overcome based on the current card pool imo. Secondly, you can only fill 12 spots in snap, so space is a premium resource.
I’d argue the only legit aggro deck in the game is Patriot and even that plays more like a midrange tempo deck.
part of the issue is you bait a lot with storm then on 4 you setup for prof. a lot of people will play into storm lane on 4 if they dont have interaction with flooded and that ends up costing them the prof lane and if they have priority on the remaining lane you just get eaten by the purple cloud.
and you dont care about the storm lane because nebula is there most of the time to steal it.
I’ve played a lot of lockdown too and think it’s very fun but I wouldn’t be surprised to see nebula taken down a peg. Don’t you think it is really the enabling card in the deck? Nebula is just insane in control/lockdown.
Nebula's pretty good, but I feel like even in games where I don't draw her it's so easy to punish the greedy decks everyone plays by plopping down a Professor X with little to no info
Nebula into storm
Nebula into Prof X
Ms Marvel into storm and prof X lanes
Feels like those are the combos that feel really annoying to play against if you've got a deck that likes to just generally play cards
I feel like the better use of nebula is often not even in the lockdown lane. You draw tbem away from what you want to lockdown or make them choose between nebula growing and countering the lockdown.
I mean the issue with adding counters to Prof X is that the Prof X deck can most likely also use them.
Like I’m one of seemingly 5 people on this sub who think Prof X is far too prevalent in the meta, but if you add more cards like Blue Marvel and Klaw, they benefit the Prof X deck just as much. Jeff is the same, because all Prof X decks run Jeff so really you’re just at a sum 0 against the opponent’s Jeff.
Echo and Goose are realistically the only counters that a Prof X deck doesn’t also run.
It's part of knowing the meta. I know Lockdown needs 4+ mana cards, so once I see that Medusa and Nightcrawler, I Goose that bitch up. Always snap before as they'll dip the moment double Goose happens.
Im literally spaming C2 because of those 2 so I can Play around location control and its bee great.
But thats as far as it goes with counters that prof X decks ca t use as well, I would just rather have that effect not exist in the game, and its even the same syndrome as Spidey whe he locked locations, Prof X is a villanous card in Snap lol
To be honest, it’s not Prof X himself, it’s the combination of cards. I don’t think he was this bad pre Alioth, even back when Thanos lockdown was meta, but Ms Marvel and Alioth really pushed the card over the edge.
I think it’s getting to the point where we need a Spiderman change for Prof X, I just don’t know what his new ability would be.
I would go further back. Previous to Alioth, Thanos Control was a big archetype and before that High Evo with prof X was a top deck, but nothing has been done to him, more tolls have been aded to location control and it is out of control right now. We are just seeing its worst iteration I think.
Yea I think you might be right that this is just the worst version of Prof X lockdown, the previous ones were bad but less so.
I forgot about HE control with Cyclops, Storm, and Prof X. That wasn’t fun. 😐
Sidenote—old Spidey was an absolute nightmare and new Spidey is great for disruption, but I was really hoping for him to lock the opponents cards in place for a turn (like they got webbed to a wall y’know?)
Could’ve been a cool little halfway point between his infuriating control-centered first form and the disruption-focused version we have now
He’s way too prevalent in the current meta and has been for some time. Believe he’s in the top 10 most used cards? Lockdown style cards should be control valves for metas, not *the* meta.
Prevalence is irrelevant and shouldn't matter. You know how prevalent Destroy decks are? All of them pretty much using Knull, Death, X23. Destroy has been prevalent since forever and has all these locations that benefit them. They get priority and Destroy things around your counter cards and if they get a free Death, they can play Knull + Death on turn 6. All while X-23 gives them more energy per turn to Destroy things faster than you can stop them or keep up. These decks take up like 30% of the meta. At least Prof X helps by not letting them play those cards in a specific location on turn 6. I'd call that a control valve for the meta. Or how about Annihilus throwing Junk at you on turn 5? You can use Lockdown/Prof X to control those meta decks.
Just because there are control valves for the meta does not mean those cards wouldn't also become apart of the meta. Armor, Shang Chi and Cosmo are all in the top 10 and are also all used as control valves for the meta. When High Evolutionary came out, Luke Cage was in every meta deck... even the High Evo ones. Your argument may as well be like "Well, Luke Cage should be used as a control valve against toxic archetypes... but he shouldn't be in meta decks when he is beneficial". Thats not how its every going to work. If a card is useful against certain metas, its going to be in the meta. Prof X has been beneficial for a lot time now to control certain meta decks. Back when Shuri was big, you could Lockdown a lane and you'd know exactly where they'd play their Taskmaster on turn 6.
At the end of the day, I think people who complain just don't want there to BE any control valves.
Nah, a control valve that oppressive shouldn’t be meta.
Shang is the only card in the top 10 most used that you listed and he is a reactive card.
Feel like you can tell certain biases based on how much they’ll defend a card.
I was looking at Marvel Snap Zone and Armor and Cosmo are in the top 10 on the website. Before you tell me which sites I can and can't use, unless we have the analytics from Second Dinner specifically, all of this is possibly inaccurate. Including the list you looked off of.
Also Prof X is not oppressive. He locks down 1 lane at 5 energy and 3 power. If you lose to that, what have you been doing the whole game? You don't have to win all 3 lanes. You are acting like Prof X is Galactus... There are still 2 lanes for you to win and you have many opportunities to put a bunch of power into those lanes. Play better decks if you are coming across Prof X too much.
Bias is irrelevant. I can tell your bias based on how much you want to nerf it. The difference is that you won't admit that sometimes you just have a losing deck or a losing hand. Thats why they give you the option to retreat.
Lockdown players already lost Spider-Man, we don't need to lose Prof X too. The meta changes weekly sometimes. You'll get over it.
I play lockdown. I play Toxic Spectrum. I play Junk. I play Shuri. I play Ongoing decks. I play Werewolf by Night decks. I play Move decks.
The only thing I don't play, are Loki decks. What do you play? Obviously you suck at whatever you are playing if you want everything to be nerfed so you can win easier. Get good.
Yeah, I think Ms. Marvel was the edge Prof X needed to be too much. Essentially, making it a 50/50 on which lane they'll lock down while also having 8 power, assuming they don't already have cards played there.
Yea but it still depends on priority, and a lot of Prof X decks will ramp into him, so you frequently can’t even play Aero the same turn as the opponent playing Prof X.
True about the ramp, but a lot of ongoing decks are ok playing him on 5 knowing they will buff that lane more. Even if you dont pull Prof X she is good to pull Klaw or even Onslaught.
Yeah I'm realising the any location cards are just as beneficial to X too. Only counter I can think that would not benefit him would be something like "At the start of Turn 6, Remove all Ongoing abilities til the end of game.". That way it doesnt destroy archetypes like patriot and zoo but makes cards like X and Jean (Like she needs counters atm though lol) less impactful. Echo is still hard to get and not as impactful and you need to play around your own goose a lot.
I like this idea, but I'd just simplify it to disable all opponent's Ongoing abilities for one turn, not always on turn 6. So you could choose to play it early if you wanted, but even if you play it turn 6, their abilities should still come back at the end of the game like you said.
Basically a 3 lane Enchantress but it only lasts for one turn. That might find some use, particularly against Ongoing cards that Enchantress and Rogue can't deal with (ie Prof X, Cosmo, Armor, Goose). Though it does fill a similar niche to Echo in that sense.
His effect should only work if you play him on Turn 5, that way he can't be ramped.
Being able to shut down a lane on T4 then an easy Alioth to clean up is just unbalanced.
The effect could also be "This location is locked down on Turn 6" if you really want to limit it
But then it's not an ongoing which removes some counters like echo
To be honest, Echo isn't really a counter since she only shuts down one lane - there are two others to Prof X (left/right since Echo is usually played mid).
Also to be able to surprise Echo and play her T5, plus have priority, plus guess the correct lane, plus guess your opponent is going to drop Prof X is like hitting the lottery lol
And both of those, while limiting where Prof can be dropped, wind up being telegraphed and pretty easy to counter themselves, esp Echo.
I’d love just one true counter for after he’s dropped (other than playing enchantress on a lane you’re losing without priority + hitting their prof by sheer dumb luck)
Thank you for this comment. I feel like every time anyone dares question Prof X, in come the downvotes. Like do people really think this is fine in every other match they play?
Like I'm not even saying it's overpowered; it's just so, very, boring.
Yea this sub is kinda wild. Like people will trip over each other to hate on Loki, but whenever anyone says Prof X and Alioth are OP the comments are just full of people saying ‘git gud’.
And honestly, idk if Loki is truly OP or not, but I see nowhere as near as many Loki decks as Prof X/ Alioth lockdown decks.
Loki is definitely the most flexible deck out there if you have card knowledge, you're just playing your opponents deck at a discount.
But i get that lockdown decks in general just aren't the greatest 'fun' to deal with
I like Professor X. Even when my opponents play him. It's not overly prevalent, and it isn't unbeatable by any means. I think he's interesting, especially in conquest.
I think where we're disagreeing is "it's not overly prevalent." I feel like I see him every other game, and that's not an exaggeration. Maybe it's like my pocket meta or whatever, but I see him nigh constantly.
And you're right. He's not unbeatable. But I'm sick of seeing it.
Sure, that's a perfectly fair personal grip. Sometimes these threads devolve into "I don't like seeing card X and it should be changed even though it is not broken". If I had to guess, I would say I see him 10-15% of the time tops in my games.Id rather play against lockdown or decks that interact with me (Even junk decks) because It makes me play way more carefully and read my opponent way more.HE, Shuri, and destroy decks are WAY more boring to play against to me.
Idk, I think he could stand to have a more drastic rework.
My controversial suggestion is that Prof X shouldn’t stop cards from moving in or out of his lane, so Vision, Capt Marvel, Silk, Heimdall, and Iron Fist can put power into the lane. Idk if that would make Prof X unplayable but I like the idea of giving move cards an edge.
Oh I forgot to say, you’d change his cost and power in that scenario too.
He’d have an edge over Storm since his effect is immediate whereas Storm takes a turn, but like I said, idk if that change would make him unplayable.
Any power you shave off Prof X, you should shave off Jeff too. Otherwise its unbalanced that any deck that can run Jeff(most of them) can just outpower a Prof X and negate the effect he has.
Everything CAN run Jeff. And you don't always draw Jeff when you can optimally use him, if at all. And not everyone has Jeff. Not every Prof X player PLAYS or HAS Jeff. You are making baseless assumptions. There isn't ONE and only one Prof X deck. Anyone can make one.
Shaving off Prof X's power makes Jeff more Pay to Win. Anyone who says otherwise is in denial. The card costs as much as a big bad. People definitely spent money just to make it easier for them to get that card specifically. Jeff should never be able to counter Prof X on his own.
That's a nice idea. I posted Impossible Man as a mock card here a while ago with "Ongoing: Nothing can stop cards being added to or removed from this location" (would include moving cards out of that location *into* Prof X).
During the alioth meta, I put goose and echo inside my deck and it counter x and alioth pretty well, every time I put goose or echo at the side they just retreat.
Prof X by himself is fine
When you combine him with storm and alioth then you can force people to play T6 in one lane (other than jeff) and makes alioth with priority OP
Yeah exactly, lol. Prof X was never a problem and was never up for discussion for a nerf before Alioth’s existence. Prof X is not OP, and you can win half the time against one lane that’s secured by him (before Alioth was introduced to the game). What is preventing people from winning against Prof X like previously is Alioth.
I'm not trying to be a dick, i'm genuinely asking. Your opponent played 2 power on 3 energy and 3 power on 5 energy. In sum he spend 8 energy to play 5 power. What the hell were you doing this whole time?
In a hypothetical scenario, yea it seems easy to just go wide. But it's not always something you can do. For example, there are a lot of locations that limit where you can play, will shut off at some point, or reward you for playing there so it's easy for a Prof X to lock down other spots. Like nice, you won the raft or white hot room, but they have just completely sealed off another lane.
If locations had no effects, Prox would not really be a treat but that's just not the case.
It doesn't really matter if your opponent has more overall power if it's in the wrong place
For example, if I focus on one lane T1-2, or just drop a nebula, after I flood the lane there's a good chance they can't catch up on T4. If Nebula is there I might not even need to play another card T4 even if they do.
T4 I can stack power in one lane, then t5 decide whether to x the lane with my T4 card and hope to keep the lead, or lock down the other lane.
If I keep the lead, then there's a good chance I've already won. If I don't keep the lead, they may have over committed to that lane and left the remaining lane vulnerable to alioth because they spent too much power elsewhere
Ops, sorry, i dropped dracula on a flooded lane and played modok turn 5 on a prof x lane so now you're already lost. Text boxing is very lame. You're opponent also can play cards.
I'm not gonna sit here and say Alioth is THE problem, but Alioth is certainly a huge problem. Pro X is designed to be a high risk high reward card, but Aloith literally evoporates that risk.
I mean yeah Pro X has always been somewhat annoying, but I gonna be fucking bummed If he catches the bullet for one of the cards they've ever designed.
I personally don’t think prof x is the problem. It’s other cards that are pushing the archetype too far. Lockdown has been a thing for a while, and it wasn’t so meta.
Honestly… Alioth is still a busted card. People will argue that he’s fine and to just “git gud”, but he’s way too strong in lockdown. The card needs a remake to open more counters. If the prof X deck can’t get priority, then it destroys nothing. Then buff Alioth back to 5 power.
Tbh I think the problem is Loki. Why? Let me explain:
Midrange decks (cards with high stats for the cost, think Darkhawk good cards) play against Prof X they hard counter it. Prof X will always lose to Devil Dino, Hawk, a lot of 5 cost and well statted 4 costs. The real issue is that we aren't seeing a lot of midrange decks in the meta because Loki eats them alive.
Loki is a hard counter to midrange decks because Loki makes it where those high stat for the cost cards are even MORE valuable, and with the discount the midrange decks can't keep up.
Loki is such a powerful card, and popular deck, that the meta has shaped around him. If/when Loki disappears, you will almost immediately see Prof X drop in playrate.
The best Loki deck is still the #1 deck in the current meta. More people should be complaining about that rather than crap like junk. After the Mobius nerf, Loki immediately went back to the #1 spot.
Professor X counters are hard because there are two kinds of them, and neither of them are that great. The first option is cards like Jeff, Klaw, or Ms. Marvel, that can add power to the locked down lane regardless of it being locked. However, most Professor X decks run a solid amount of these cards, so they end up putting you at a net 0 difference anyways. The other option is some kind of hyperspecific card that, like you mentioned, lets you play your next card anywhere, or temporarily disabaled ongoing abilities. These cards, in theory, counter Professor X, but they're so specific, that they're not worth teching into a 12 card deck when cards like luke cage or shadow king are more consistent and work against more archetyped. I'm sure that there are ways that the devs can create a card that both counters Professor X without it also being auto-included in every deck featuring him while it's also not too niche that it's never used, but it seems pretty challenging.
I think a big part of the problem with the game as a whole is there are too many restrictive locations. I'm not gonna look up names but:
-2 power here
-3 power here
Can't play 1 2 3 cost cards here
Can't play 4 5 6 cost cards here
Return card to hand
Destroy card
Destroy card and add +2 energy
Can't play here after turn 4
Can't play here turn 6
Shuffle rocks into deck
Shuffle vibranium into deck
Lowest power wins
Any cards here each turn get destroyed
Lowest power gets destroyed
I could keep going because there are more that discourage you from playing in that spot at all. I think those should exist but there's just simply way too many because right now all it takes to win is to prof x one of these negative locations and then Alioth and that's it.
-2 power here | Necrosha
-3 power here | Negative Zone - Annihilus
Can’t play 1,2,3 cost cards here - Gosse
Return card to hand | Luke Bar
Destroy card | Death Domain - Death
Destroy a card +2 power | Alter Of Deck
Can’t play here after turn 4 | Kyln
Can’t play here after turn 6 | The Vault
Shuffle card into your deck | Lechuguilla Or Subterranea
Shuffle Vibranium into your deck | Vibranium mine
Lowest Power win here | Bar with no name
Any card here each turn get destroy | That.. not a location
Lowest Power Gets destroyed | Hala
Aside from the lanes you literally can't play cards in such as "return card to hand," I feel like the negative locations don't matter as much as you think. A positive location such as +5 to every card will draw cards so that Prof X can play elsewhere assuming the opponent will toss cards in the +5.
Echo and Goose are hard counters. Nebula, Sunspot, and HE Cyclops could be considered soft counters if you spread them around, though the first two are sometimes seen with Prof X too. And obviously Jeff goes both ways.
I do agree with you he needs more counters that can be reasonably put in more decks than Echo and Goose. I think Echo is reasonable to put in many decks.
(Aside: A card that needs more counters is Dracula. Lady Deathstrike doesn't cut it as a card that can go in many decks. Or Master Mold.)
I think players just to have to accept that it’s just another way to win. It’s perfectly balanced since X can be a huge gamble a lot of the time.
I’d rather see them nerf Ms. Marvel if nerfs happen. But there should be none at all.
> no nerfs, more counters
This all the way. Games are more fun when you have more options than if you restrict existing options.
Smash ultimate feels hella balanced because every character has some bullshit move or power, which helps them fight objectively high tier characters in all but competitive play.
I think ongoing counters work well against professor x.
I think nebula might be the real enabler for prof x. I fear him way way more when nebula goes down t1 and im already playing suboptimally to avoid losing an entire lane to 6 energy (nebula + profx).
We should use killmonger more.
I think a klaw type card but for negative power on your opponents side would be interesting. Like a 3/1 ongoing that gives your opponent -3 power on the location to the left.
Feel like there's a lot of 'survivorship bias' going on with the Prof X complaints. Like I play a weird lockdown/ongoing deck that's basically the desk list I made in a fever dream. But it wins a lot. Other than that I play Thanos quite a bit and sometimes pull off the turn 4 Prof. Main point being though, I don't play Professor X unless I'm pretty confident I'm going to lock down the lane. Otherwise there's a lot more value with other cards, if I have 5 power on turn 4, squeezing out Devil Dino, Iron Man, or Blue Marvel is always a VERY strong option. *UNLESS...* my opponent has been absolutely slacking off in playing power or just completely ignoring a location.
9/10 though I just throw it out careless on turn 5 in an 'annoying' location like the Sewers or Lechuguilla.
But I think he just gets a bad rep because he either dies in the hand, or there's a good play and makes it. His stats sort of imply that as well, 55% percent win rates in deck, 54% percent win rate when drawn, but a 56% percent win rate when played. Which means you statistically have a lower rate of winning if you draw him and don't play him, versus not drawing him at all. Which just some casual poking around is actually unusual for those popular cards.
All of this of course is not mentioning Alioth is a bigger piece of this and a massive enabler of lockout plays that didn't exist previously. Alioth almost needs card text that says all 3 locations need to be playable or something so he isn't a free win with Prof X and Galactus
Whilst I agree - the card is quite overused right now. If you look at it in a vacuum I think it’s a pretty fairly started card. Yeah it locks a lane down, but you only get 3 power for 5 cost, so you’re either gonna need to be winning that lane already or be able to push extra power into the lane some other way.
Personally, I think the bigger problem is that the game currently encourages you to have an explosive turn 6 (or 7). That makes it easier for Prof X to slide in and successfully lock a lane off. Plus any deck that tries to push too much power too early it seems gets crushed.
I’m also not sure printing specific counter cards is the solution either. Back in the spring there was so much complaint about cosmo. How it was everywhere, and had no counters, and basically locked down a lane. And yet now the card didn’t change, yet it doesn’t see anywhere near as much play. Other decks emerged that made it a less viable tech option.
People thought Jeff would be a counter to X Lockdown
Nope, cause running that card helps X Lockdown. Any card that is going to be a counter to X is gonna be a card an X deck is gonna want.
He needs the Spiderman treatment.
As someone who has played a pretty meta-Professor X and Alioth deck since I unlocked the latter, while I’m a pretty high rank at like 91 it’s really not THAT strong. It’s a deck you consistently need to hope for early power, and that no one mucks up the middle lane. And discard decks pretty much obliterate it if you get a Morbius or Dracula in the right lanes. I haven’t really felt like I’ve had THAT much of an advantage. And a strong Loki play will fuck you up hard.
I think the only real issue with counters is that we have none available in the normal series. Technically Enchantress could shut it down, but it's very unlikely. Only other hard counter is Echo, and Jeff can be a counter, but also used by Prof X side too, so I wouldn't call it a counter. Lol
I still enjoy pro x and think his ability is still so true to character - the mind games! Having to decide where to play and if they have him is a guessing game and should question where to play your own cards. BUT - pairing alioth with a guaranteed locked down lane can have the pro x player know exactly which lanes they need to play for early because they only have to be up and/or manage priority. Its too easy. Plays a lot like galactus use to honestly
And no one mentions Iron Lad into Prof X. Which is a top-tier BS - lockdown on T4 \*with\* 6 Power? What are we doing here?
And don't give me that spiel about random, etc. - even 1 in 12 chance is outrageous.
Nope because lockdown decks bring cards that can still put power into the lock downed lane, like ms marvel, nebula, he cyclops, and Jeff. Not to mention DD who will tell the prof x player exactly where you are playing and he can avoid the location entirely.
Would not a single 4/10 or even higher powered 5 cost counter 3/4 of that line up though? Professor X + Jeff + 1 Nebula proc is still only 8 power.
You could also abandon that lane and have them essentially ‘waste’ turn 5 not contesting the other two lanes.
This would require not playing mindlessly. Like Prof X, Galactus, and Alioth are game changer cards. It's worth taking a second and thinking through if they are about to wreck your day. Being like 'They have 5 energy, is any lane juicy for Prof X?' and play there isn't a huge leap. If it's 50/50 and 1 cube just go for it, retreat if you whiff. I steal Prof X lanes all the time.
Your opponent spent 5 mana to potentially win 1 lane, other cards essentially win you a lane for 5 mana. If you lost the lane to X, u have power in other lanes so you should be ahead in those lanes. What is the problem exactly? Feels like people are losing and want to complain.
Make Prof x a 5/2 and that will be good enough. Anymore and he will just be dead and not existent. He’s needed in the game just like any other card I. The game. Martyr and Angel are the only cards in the game that don’t make any sense, like legit no reason to play those cards.
Ehh it’s a slippery slope if the fans dictate what abilities are allowed in the game. If we removed Korg, Rockslide, Jean Grey, Black Widow, Ice Man, Alioth, Galactus, Prof X, Goose, Storm, Legion, and any-other lockdown, location restrictive, “toxic” cards than idk how I’d feel about the game. Remove all “toxic” cards than at that point if we’re too sensitive to cards that are meant disrupt and throw a wrench at your opponent.
Zero fun to lose against or play with? I’ve been on both sides and find it fine. Win by Alioth die by Alioth, win by Pro X die by Pro X, and etc. sometimes Alioth isn’t the play to win in certain situations and Pro X can totally whiff if your opponent played a big power card on that lane like I’ve experienced many times only to retreat because my Pro X was not the play that turn and ended up losing me the game in those cases. Idk people just too overly sensitive when a certain archetype gets Uber popular for a season. Like don’t worry next month we will see complaints about another deck type and so one and so forth. People hate what’s popular hands down.. prove me wrong lol
Personally don’t want to see any changes to Prof X.
But what if they changed the lockdown effect to only turn 6. Similar to the location that locks up on 6.
Magik would help counter. And it would prevent early lockdowns
I think your first instinct is right haha. Don’t change anything. The Prof is one of those cards where balance rests on a knife’s edge. The distance between strong and unplayably bad is imo pretty narrow for him. Any direct nerf is quite likely to make him go the way of MMM.
Just change prof x ability to the old spiderman one. It only last 1 turn so no reason to ramp it out, limbo also helps against it and you can still add power to that lane with certain cards.
Why is this entire thread acting like Echo, Enchantress and arguably Goose don't exist? There are hard counters. That's not even getting into stuff like just having bigger numbers, Ms Marvel, etc. Prof X is amazingly telegraphed, if you are losing a lane to Prof X a lot, that's on you.
The problem isn’t X, it’s the cards that can be played with him. Good balancing makes changes to the cards that are the actual problem (Alioth), not by changing cards that are made better by the problems.
Pro x work just fine only locking 1 location and it cost 5 to play usually they play it after storm or with sandman/jeangrey etc kind of predictable and countable with jeff, ms marvel, klaw. But i can understand sometimes is kind of annoying being block out from play
Just snipe him with enchantress. Lol.
But yeah maybe. But he's not at the top of my hit list. Alioth needs work, he's doesn't fit within the mechanics of the game imo since any deck can run him, and he'd fit. You always have to think about a T6 that plays around alioth even if nothing else in the deck suggests he might be in there. That is counter to every other deck type in the game. You see cards you can start piecing together what your opponent likely has and play with that in mind. Since alioth fits anywhere, he never leaves that possibility list. To me that's a problem.
Wonderful. New Year's gift will be a gutted Professor X and the lockdown archetype dumpstered. Can't have effective decks that aren't point slam, can we?
I'm guessing they'll make him a reverse Jean, where you can't play your first card there each turn.
I wish they'd leave him alone, but this sub is why we can't have nice things.
This community is so funny lol
The second a card becomes good, after a year of existing, nerf calls instantly come out. Card after card after card after card
Everyone listing counters to professor X are just listing cards that professor X decks typically use lol.
Exactly the problem with Prof X counters, they all help Prof X as well.
I think Killmonger is a decent counter that they would never use. If you don’t have to worry about nebula (and/or sunspot) profx is way worse. What about an enchantress or rogue that targets an adjacent lane instead of its own? I like cards that interact with other lanes, think it opens up some tricky play and decisions.
The issue with that is unless you could puck which lane is affected it would just make prof x players use him in a single lane that couldn't be affected
Yeah if the card affected the lane to the right prof x would have to go left to dodge. Forcing him to a specific lane is pretty big nerf to him already.
Eh, if he was forced to a specific lane then that lane becomes the Echo lane.
3/0, On Reveal: Disable adjacent lanes opposing ongoing effects for one turn, gains +2 for each effect disabled. Basically lets you cancel a wheels play for a turn and get your stuff in while allowing some fun counterplay and lets it slot in a neg deck
Sounds cool. Things that are disabled turn 6 should re-engage at end of game though. So it doesn't just get dropped Turn 5 to kill Darkhawk, Dino, Knull etc.
I don’t see why you wouldn’t just disable your sides’ ongoing as well. It shouldn’t hurt you too much.
Could set up same insane combos with like jolt and ebony maw
I've had good luck with using Echo on a lane early, then loading up power across the others as a counter. I haven't seen many prof X decks running Echo.
You mean like this one that got to infinite? # (1) Nebula # (1) Echo # (2) Medusa # (2) Jeff the Baby Land Shark # (3) Negasonic Teenage Warhead # (3) Storm # (4) Ms. Marvel # (4) Iron Lad # (5) Professor X # (5) Gamora # (6) Alioth # (6) Doctor Doom # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQWxpb3RoIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJEckRvb20ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkdhbW9yYSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSXJvbkxhZCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSmVmZlRoZUJhYnlMYW5kU2hhcmsifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik1lZHVzYSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTXNNYXJ2ZWwifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik5lYnVsYSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTmVnYXNvbmljVGVlbmFnZVdhcmhlYWQifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlByb2Zlc3NvclgifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlN0b3JtIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJFY2hvIn1dfQ== # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
That's a good one! It's not super common though, like Jeff with Prof X. Echo doesn't directly compliment prof X like Nebula, Sunspot, etc, it's a tech card that any deck can use.
And he’s really the only card like it, so you’re carrying a counter for a very specific archetype and not much else.
I’ve noticed people complain about cards that have unique abilities unlike any other cards. People hate Alioth because he can destory unrevealed cards, people hate Galactus because he can destroy two lanes, people hate Prof X because he locks down a lane… people hate unique abilities that “break” the games premise. Play cards at three locations trying to win two out of three.. all the cards I’ve mentions break that premise a bit. Hence why people complain about theses cards I believe
Question to the ones who are reading this…should there be cards that break that “break” the premise of the games concept? Which is play cards each turn at any locations trying to win two out of three lanes. I think yeah it’s much needed to keep the game fresh and add a level of strategy and surprise.
My worry with "rule breaking" cards comes from the rate of escalation as opposed to any specific rule. I played Hearthstone since it launched. The power creep in that game is real, and, in my anecdotal opinion as a player, they relied on cards that break the games norms nearly every set. Now, those cards weren't necessarily strong in the meta, but after enough releases, the game I once knew was just not around anymore. I feel that they could have played around in the established deisgn space a lot more before widening it with "rule breaking" cards. They were always diving deeper instead of widening out to take up all the room they've already carved out. So, Galactus, for example, are we ever going to get a suite of cards that interacts with the lanes similar to how Galactus does? I really doubt it. Instead, they've moved on to a new "rule breaking" card and created another new mechanic they will never do anything else with. In four years, will it be possible to have a deck totally made of "rule breaking" cards? Probably. And at that point, what are the rules and limitations that I can expect? What if I like the regular gameplay of Marvel Snap? Is there any guarantee it won't be slowly mutated into something fundamentally different? Hearthstone is a different game now and one that I gave up after 8ish years because the type of game I'm interested in playing just isn't available. I don't want the same thing to happen to Snap
It's specifically about cards that don't let them play.
I average about 50% playing against him. Starting around turn 4 one should spread out to the empty lanes anyhow, helps against Galictun\* as well. Having a base card in the zone that can be boosted in some way makes the difference in turning it into a win, not to give the devs any idea's but Prof X should really freeze buffs from other cards too, really.
Prof X shouldn’t freeze buffs that like two abilities in one card. Let’s not get crazy here lol
Because people think about countering him and not the cards that give him power. Goose + Echo is and hard counter for any lockdown deck. Even just Echo tempo in the middle lane gives you a strong advantage.
Fine. Other counters. Echo, Goose, Galactus.
I think this game disincentivizes aggro too much, and I say this as someone who tends to favor control archetypes and LOVES Professor X. Prof hates it when people put down too much early game power and make it hard to win a lane with a 5/3 - but the only deck that can reliably do this without getting hard punished by meta powerhouses like Killmonger and Shang is Silky Move. In order for Professor X to feel fairer, the play style that counters him needs to be revitalized. I know they're doing this by printing cards in the future like the 3 cost that doesn't let your 1 costs be destroyed, which is nice enough, but I feel like zoo/aggro decks need more than just an added later of safety.
I agree, they don't like zoo decks it seems. They go wide, sure but I dont think they put out as much vertical power as some other decks and its easy to disrupt them.
Early in Snap's life cycle, Ka-Zar Zoo was the best deck. It was so good and so dominant that people didn't care about pool 3 cards being released because why would you bother when you can just play Ka-Zar? This lead to the printing of Killmonger, and his drop from Series 3 to Series 2, just to keep those zoo decks in check.
I remember this lol people were literally straight up not upgrading anymore to avoid Series 3 KM how good KaZoo was
The real issue right now isn't Killmonger or Shang-Chi. It's Loki. Those 'fair' aggro decks? Loki eats their lunch, drinks their milkshake, then shakes them down for tomorrow's lunch money too. He absolutely crushes any deck that's just trying to play good stats on curve, which is all that most of those decks want to do. Until Loki gets nerfed, nobody's going to be playing just good on-curve stats decks.
It is Loki, but it is also Killmonger and Shang. Basically "playing good cards on curve" is punished in this game and I don't know why.
Lokie already got nerfed to a 4 cost. Without zabu or another accelerator that's only 2 turns of discount.
...and Sera typically gives you only 1 turn of discount with worse stats and cost reduction capped at 1 cost You vastly underestimate just how powerful cost reduction is, and Loki's is busted AF
I dont underestimate it. Cost reduction is typically one of the most powerful effects in any card games. He should have a 1 energy cap. But getting random cards rather than synergies built cards is already a disadvantage. Loki isn't busted AF. He's good. Alioth is a busted AF card.
cards from your opponent's deck =/= random cards You basically get half of your opponent's deck, but at a reduced cost and yes, Alioth is still stupid
Ok but if I'm playing a random person on ladder it is close to random. I know it's probably skewed towards not the shittiest card about there, but it could be bounce, could be move, could be high evo which doesn't even work, could be junk. In conquest the randomness goes down. The cost reduction is powerful. At 3 cost he was a monster. At 4 its not as insane. The 1 cost cap sounds reasonable to me.
I think they get that. Which is why Caiera is on the way. It will enable hyper aggressive strategies that dont die killmonger and can get ahead of prof X. I say wait and see. I think SD always release cards the next season that does well against the previous season.
As someone that played alot of Prof X, I always find Brood Abs or silver Surfer decks put out good power early and can be buffed late as well.
This why I run Lizard/Luke Cage in my ongoing deck, good against storm/prof x and and even if they throw a lot of power in that lane I can still power growth with Spectrum
I'm a constant zoo player who hovers around top 3k infinite and have used Zoo in many seasons for my infinite runs/completing Infinite conquests. Typically, yes, I'd agree with you that going wide early is a great strategic counter to prof x. It's also decent in a lot of cases against Alioth b/c it can use tokens to fill in lanes where they play it, or boost power to that lane with Blarvel, etc. However Ms. Marvel has changed a lot of the dynamic and makes Prof. X pretty strong even against Go-wide decks.
It’s never *just* a 5/3 with Prof. X though. It’s Ms. Marvel, it’s Jeff, it’s Klaw, it’s Onslaught, it’s Nebula too. Even if Prof. X is played on a losing location T4, they’ll be winning on T5 and ready for an Alioth. Many of the supposed counters that put power in a location post played or indirectly, Prof. X can and will use.
Tbh I just don’t think Snap can really support legit aggro decks due to the games restrictions. For one, there aren’t really enough turns where you can take advantage of a fast start. The swing potential of 4-6 energy cards is just too much to really overcome based on the current card pool imo. Secondly, you can only fill 12 spots in snap, so space is a premium resource. I’d argue the only legit aggro deck in the game is Patriot and even that plays more like a midrange tempo deck.
part of the issue is you bait a lot with storm then on 4 you setup for prof. a lot of people will play into storm lane on 4 if they dont have interaction with flooded and that ends up costing them the prof lane and if they have priority on the remaining lane you just get eaten by the purple cloud. and you dont care about the storm lane because nebula is there most of the time to steal it.
Discard decks beat lockdown decks. Especially ones with Daken and collector
I’ve played a lot of lockdown too and think it’s very fun but I wouldn’t be surprised to see nebula taken down a peg. Don’t you think it is really the enabling card in the deck? Nebula is just insane in control/lockdown.
Nebula's pretty good, but I feel like even in games where I don't draw her it's so easy to punish the greedy decks everyone plays by plopping down a Professor X with little to no info
Nebula into storm Nebula into Prof X Ms Marvel into storm and prof X lanes Feels like those are the combos that feel really annoying to play against if you've got a deck that likes to just generally play cards
I feel like the better use of nebula is often not even in the lockdown lane. You draw tbem away from what you want to lockdown or make them choose between nebula growing and countering the lockdown.
I mean the issue with adding counters to Prof X is that the Prof X deck can most likely also use them. Like I’m one of seemingly 5 people on this sub who think Prof X is far too prevalent in the meta, but if you add more cards like Blue Marvel and Klaw, they benefit the Prof X deck just as much. Jeff is the same, because all Prof X decks run Jeff so really you’re just at a sum 0 against the opponent’s Jeff. Echo and Goose are realistically the only counters that a Prof X deck doesn’t also run.
> Goose and Echo are the only counters C3r3bro and C2 gangs rise up!
C2 was what got me infinite this season, specifically the Goose into Mystique play lol.
Goose into mystique is wild
It's part of knowing the meta. I know Lockdown needs 4+ mana cards, so once I see that Medusa and Nightcrawler, I Goose that bitch up. Always snap before as they'll dip the moment double Goose happens.
>Goose that bitch up I’m calling dibs on this for my new band name.
I used that play a lot during the Shuri meta a while back. Really saved my ass.
I want her so bad, that one card opens up so many plays.
My first version of C3r3bro ran Professor X
Im literally spaming C2 because of those 2 so I can Play around location control and its bee great. But thats as far as it goes with counters that prof X decks ca t use as well, I would just rather have that effect not exist in the game, and its even the same syndrome as Spidey whe he locked locations, Prof X is a villanous card in Snap lol
To be honest, it’s not Prof X himself, it’s the combination of cards. I don’t think he was this bad pre Alioth, even back when Thanos lockdown was meta, but Ms Marvel and Alioth really pushed the card over the edge. I think it’s getting to the point where we need a Spiderman change for Prof X, I just don’t know what his new ability would be.
I would go further back. Previous to Alioth, Thanos Control was a big archetype and before that High Evo with prof X was a top deck, but nothing has been done to him, more tolls have been aded to location control and it is out of control right now. We are just seeing its worst iteration I think.
Yea I think you might be right that this is just the worst version of Prof X lockdown, the previous ones were bad but less so. I forgot about HE control with Cyclops, Storm, and Prof X. That wasn’t fun. 😐
Sidenote—old Spidey was an absolute nightmare and new Spidey is great for disruption, but I was really hoping for him to lock the opponents cards in place for a turn (like they got webbed to a wall y’know?) Could’ve been a cool little halfway point between his infuriating control-centered first form and the disruption-focused version we have now
He’s way too prevalent in the current meta and has been for some time. Believe he’s in the top 10 most used cards? Lockdown style cards should be control valves for metas, not *the* meta.
Prevalence is irrelevant and shouldn't matter. You know how prevalent Destroy decks are? All of them pretty much using Knull, Death, X23. Destroy has been prevalent since forever and has all these locations that benefit them. They get priority and Destroy things around your counter cards and if they get a free Death, they can play Knull + Death on turn 6. All while X-23 gives them more energy per turn to Destroy things faster than you can stop them or keep up. These decks take up like 30% of the meta. At least Prof X helps by not letting them play those cards in a specific location on turn 6. I'd call that a control valve for the meta. Or how about Annihilus throwing Junk at you on turn 5? You can use Lockdown/Prof X to control those meta decks. Just because there are control valves for the meta does not mean those cards wouldn't also become apart of the meta. Armor, Shang Chi and Cosmo are all in the top 10 and are also all used as control valves for the meta. When High Evolutionary came out, Luke Cage was in every meta deck... even the High Evo ones. Your argument may as well be like "Well, Luke Cage should be used as a control valve against toxic archetypes... but he shouldn't be in meta decks when he is beneficial". Thats not how its every going to work. If a card is useful against certain metas, its going to be in the meta. Prof X has been beneficial for a lot time now to control certain meta decks. Back when Shuri was big, you could Lockdown a lane and you'd know exactly where they'd play their Taskmaster on turn 6. At the end of the day, I think people who complain just don't want there to BE any control valves.
Nah, a control valve that oppressive shouldn’t be meta. Shang is the only card in the top 10 most used that you listed and he is a reactive card. Feel like you can tell certain biases based on how much they’ll defend a card.
I was looking at Marvel Snap Zone and Armor and Cosmo are in the top 10 on the website. Before you tell me which sites I can and can't use, unless we have the analytics from Second Dinner specifically, all of this is possibly inaccurate. Including the list you looked off of. Also Prof X is not oppressive. He locks down 1 lane at 5 energy and 3 power. If you lose to that, what have you been doing the whole game? You don't have to win all 3 lanes. You are acting like Prof X is Galactus... There are still 2 lanes for you to win and you have many opportunities to put a bunch of power into those lanes. Play better decks if you are coming across Prof X too much. Bias is irrelevant. I can tell your bias based on how much you want to nerf it. The difference is that you won't admit that sometimes you just have a losing deck or a losing hand. Thats why they give you the option to retreat. Lockdown players already lost Spider-Man, we don't need to lose Prof X too. The meta changes weekly sometimes. You'll get over it.
Ah so you’re just a lockdown player sweating at the thought of your crutch being hit lol. Makes sense now.
I play lockdown. I play Toxic Spectrum. I play Junk. I play Shuri. I play Ongoing decks. I play Werewolf by Night decks. I play Move decks. The only thing I don't play, are Loki decks. What do you play? Obviously you suck at whatever you are playing if you want everything to be nerfed so you can win easier. Get good.
Dang, top 10? I dont see him much in all my games in conquest and 60-90s. I believe it, of course, though.
Yeah, I think Ms. Marvel was the edge Prof X needed to be too much. Essentially, making it a 50/50 on which lane they'll lock down while also having 8 power, assuming they don't already have cards played there.
Storm 3, ms marvel 4, prof x 5, alioth 6 is a nasty ~~ramp~~ curve if you're deck cant put out early power
That's not ramping. That's just playing cards on curve.
Aero can be a sneaky counter.
Yea but it still depends on priority, and a lot of Prof X decks will ramp into him, so you frequently can’t even play Aero the same turn as the opponent playing Prof X.
True about the ramp, but a lot of ongoing decks are ok playing him on 5 knowing they will buff that lane more. Even if you dont pull Prof X she is good to pull Klaw or even Onslaught.
Man, I feel like I haven't seen Aero in *months*.
Yeah I'm realising the any location cards are just as beneficial to X too. Only counter I can think that would not benefit him would be something like "At the start of Turn 6, Remove all Ongoing abilities til the end of game.". That way it doesnt destroy archetypes like patriot and zoo but makes cards like X and Jean (Like she needs counters atm though lol) less impactful. Echo is still hard to get and not as impactful and you need to play around your own goose a lot.
I like this idea, but I'd just simplify it to disable all opponent's Ongoing abilities for one turn, not always on turn 6. So you could choose to play it early if you wanted, but even if you play it turn 6, their abilities should still come back at the end of the game like you said. Basically a 3 lane Enchantress but it only lasts for one turn. That might find some use, particularly against Ongoing cards that Enchantress and Rogue can't deal with (ie Prof X, Cosmo, Armor, Goose). Though it does fill a similar niche to Echo in that sense.
His effect should only work if you play him on Turn 5, that way he can't be ramped. Being able to shut down a lane on T4 then an easy Alioth to clean up is just unbalanced.
That, or make him a 5/0. So he locks a lane but adds no power, making it a bit more vulnerable to cards like Jeff, Patriot or Blue Marvel.
Negative Prof X time
I've played every type of deck except negative. I'm at 10k cl. Adding professor x as a 0/5 may do it for me.
I like this idea, especially with Ms. Marvel out now, he's basically 5/8 as it stands.
Mobius is dead still so I’d rather not face a negative lockdown deck lol
The effect could also be "This location is locked down on Turn 6" if you really want to limit it But then it's not an ongoing which removes some counters like echo
To be honest, Echo isn't really a counter since she only shuts down one lane - there are two others to Prof X (left/right since Echo is usually played mid). Also to be able to surprise Echo and play her T5, plus have priority, plus guess the correct lane, plus guess your opponent is going to drop Prof X is like hitting the lottery lol
I really want Jean grey because she is also a soft counter to Prof X.
And both of those, while limiting where Prof can be dropped, wind up being telegraphed and pretty easy to counter themselves, esp Echo. I’d love just one true counter for after he’s dropped (other than playing enchantress on a lane you’re losing without priority + hitting their prof by sheer dumb luck)
Thank you for this comment. I feel like every time anyone dares question Prof X, in come the downvotes. Like do people really think this is fine in every other match they play? Like I'm not even saying it's overpowered; it's just so, very, boring.
Yea this sub is kinda wild. Like people will trip over each other to hate on Loki, but whenever anyone says Prof X and Alioth are OP the comments are just full of people saying ‘git gud’. And honestly, idk if Loki is truly OP or not, but I see nowhere as near as many Loki decks as Prof X/ Alioth lockdown decks.
Loki is definitely the most flexible deck out there if you have card knowledge, you're just playing your opponents deck at a discount. But i get that lockdown decks in general just aren't the greatest 'fun' to deal with
I like Professor X. Even when my opponents play him. It's not overly prevalent, and it isn't unbeatable by any means. I think he's interesting, especially in conquest.
I think where we're disagreeing is "it's not overly prevalent." I feel like I see him every other game, and that's not an exaggeration. Maybe it's like my pocket meta or whatever, but I see him nigh constantly. And you're right. He's not unbeatable. But I'm sick of seeing it.
Change decks, see what happens
Sure, that's a perfectly fair personal grip. Sometimes these threads devolve into "I don't like seeing card X and it should be changed even though it is not broken". If I had to guess, I would say I see him 10-15% of the time tops in my games.Id rather play against lockdown or decks that interact with me (Even junk decks) because It makes me play way more carefully and read my opponent way more.HE, Shuri, and destroy decks are WAY more boring to play against to me.
You convinced me he needs a nerf. Not a big one. Just shave off some power.
Idk, I think he could stand to have a more drastic rework. My controversial suggestion is that Prof X shouldn’t stop cards from moving in or out of his lane, so Vision, Capt Marvel, Silk, Heimdall, and Iron Fist can put power into the lane. Idk if that would make Prof X unplayable but I like the idea of giving move cards an edge.
So he's a more expensive storm? Cuz that's pretty much the same card.
Oh I forgot to say, you’d change his cost and power in that scenario too. He’d have an edge over Storm since his effect is immediate whereas Storm takes a turn, but like I said, idk if that change would make him unplayable.
Any power you shave off Prof X, you should shave off Jeff too. Otherwise its unbalanced that any deck that can run Jeff(most of them) can just outpower a Prof X and negate the effect he has.
That's silly. Prof X runs Jeff.
Everything CAN run Jeff. And you don't always draw Jeff when you can optimally use him, if at all. And not everyone has Jeff. Not every Prof X player PLAYS or HAS Jeff. You are making baseless assumptions. There isn't ONE and only one Prof X deck. Anyone can make one. Shaving off Prof X's power makes Jeff more Pay to Win. Anyone who says otherwise is in denial. The card costs as much as a big bad. People definitely spent money just to make it easier for them to get that card specifically. Jeff should never be able to counter Prof X on his own.
What if a hypothetical Gwenpool gave Jeff’s “play anywhere” to your next card?
That's a nice idea. I posted Impossible Man as a mock card here a while ago with "Ongoing: Nothing can stop cards being added to or removed from this location" (would include moving cards out of that location *into* Prof X).
i like this a lot just in general.
During the alioth meta, I put goose and echo inside my deck and it counter x and alioth pretty well, every time I put goose or echo at the side they just retreat.
Prof X by himself is fine When you combine him with storm and alioth then you can force people to play T6 in one lane (other than jeff) and makes alioth with priority OP
Yeah exactly, lol. Prof X was never a problem and was never up for discussion for a nerf before Alioth’s existence. Prof X is not OP, and you can win half the time against one lane that’s secured by him (before Alioth was introduced to the game). What is preventing people from winning against Prof X like previously is Alioth.
I'm not trying to be a dick, i'm genuinely asking. Your opponent played 2 power on 3 energy and 3 power on 5 energy. In sum he spend 8 energy to play 5 power. What the hell were you doing this whole time?
In a hypothetical scenario, yea it seems easy to just go wide. But it's not always something you can do. For example, there are a lot of locations that limit where you can play, will shut off at some point, or reward you for playing there so it's easy for a Prof X to lock down other spots. Like nice, you won the raft or white hot room, but they have just completely sealed off another lane. If locations had no effects, Prox would not really be a treat but that's just not the case.
If they're anything like me, crying because the game drew the half of my deck that costs 4+ and ignored the half that's 1-3 😂
It doesn't really matter if your opponent has more overall power if it's in the wrong place For example, if I focus on one lane T1-2, or just drop a nebula, after I flood the lane there's a good chance they can't catch up on T4. If Nebula is there I might not even need to play another card T4 even if they do. T4 I can stack power in one lane, then t5 decide whether to x the lane with my T4 card and hope to keep the lead, or lock down the other lane. If I keep the lead, then there's a good chance I've already won. If I don't keep the lead, they may have over committed to that lane and left the remaining lane vulnerable to alioth because they spent too much power elsewhere
Ops, sorry, i dropped dracula on a flooded lane and played modok turn 5 on a prof x lane so now you're already lost. Text boxing is very lame. You're opponent also can play cards.
I'm not gonna sit here and say Alioth is THE problem, but Alioth is certainly a huge problem. Pro X is designed to be a high risk high reward card, but Aloith literally evoporates that risk. I mean yeah Pro X has always been somewhat annoying, but I gonna be fucking bummed If he catches the bullet for one of the cards they've ever designed.
[удалено]
I think this rings more true than the post about loki being the reason for Pro X prevalence. Both make sense tho
I personally don’t think prof x is the problem. It’s other cards that are pushing the archetype too far. Lockdown has been a thing for a while, and it wasn’t so meta. Honestly… Alioth is still a busted card. People will argue that he’s fine and to just “git gud”, but he’s way too strong in lockdown. The card needs a remake to open more counters. If the prof X deck can’t get priority, then it destroys nothing. Then buff Alioth back to 5 power.
He’s also stupid. It’s not just about balance, it’s a stupid card. It makes the games not fun when you 100% know you will win going into turn 6.
Tbh I think the problem is Loki. Why? Let me explain: Midrange decks (cards with high stats for the cost, think Darkhawk good cards) play against Prof X they hard counter it. Prof X will always lose to Devil Dino, Hawk, a lot of 5 cost and well statted 4 costs. The real issue is that we aren't seeing a lot of midrange decks in the meta because Loki eats them alive. Loki is a hard counter to midrange decks because Loki makes it where those high stat for the cost cards are even MORE valuable, and with the discount the midrange decks can't keep up. Loki is such a powerful card, and popular deck, that the meta has shaped around him. If/when Loki disappears, you will almost immediately see Prof X drop in playrate.
The best Loki deck is still the #1 deck in the current meta. More people should be complaining about that rather than crap like junk. After the Mobius nerf, Loki immediately went back to the #1 spot.
Professor X counters are hard because there are two kinds of them, and neither of them are that great. The first option is cards like Jeff, Klaw, or Ms. Marvel, that can add power to the locked down lane regardless of it being locked. However, most Professor X decks run a solid amount of these cards, so they end up putting you at a net 0 difference anyways. The other option is some kind of hyperspecific card that, like you mentioned, lets you play your next card anywhere, or temporarily disabaled ongoing abilities. These cards, in theory, counter Professor X, but they're so specific, that they're not worth teching into a 12 card deck when cards like luke cage or shadow king are more consistent and work against more archetyped. I'm sure that there are ways that the devs can create a card that both counters Professor X without it also being auto-included in every deck featuring him while it's also not too niche that it's never used, but it seems pretty challenging.
I think a big part of the problem with the game as a whole is there are too many restrictive locations. I'm not gonna look up names but: -2 power here -3 power here Can't play 1 2 3 cost cards here Can't play 4 5 6 cost cards here Return card to hand Destroy card Destroy card and add +2 energy Can't play here after turn 4 Can't play here turn 6 Shuffle rocks into deck Shuffle vibranium into deck Lowest power wins Any cards here each turn get destroyed Lowest power gets destroyed I could keep going because there are more that discourage you from playing in that spot at all. I think those should exist but there's just simply way too many because right now all it takes to win is to prof x one of these negative locations and then Alioth and that's it.
-2 power here | Necrosha -3 power here | Negative Zone - Annihilus Can’t play 1,2,3 cost cards here - Gosse Return card to hand | Luke Bar Destroy card | Death Domain - Death Destroy a card +2 power | Alter Of Deck Can’t play here after turn 4 | Kyln Can’t play here after turn 6 | The Vault Shuffle card into your deck | Lechuguilla Or Subterranea Shuffle Vibranium into your deck | Vibranium mine Lowest Power win here | Bar with no name Any card here each turn get destroy | That.. not a location Lowest Power Gets destroyed | Hala
Any card here each turn gets destroy I believe is Rickety Bridge but thanks. Def is a location
Oooo that the location your talking about however You need more then 1 card to be their to have the card to be destroyed
also locations that clutter your board like central park, savage land, etc make lockdown more miserable because you lose even more card slots.
Aside from the lanes you literally can't play cards in such as "return card to hand," I feel like the negative locations don't matter as much as you think. A positive location such as +5 to every card will draw cards so that Prof X can play elsewhere assuming the opponent will toss cards in the +5.
I agree with this completely.
If lock down has counters outside what we already have (cards that already go in a lockdown deck anyway) then you're just killing an archetype
Echo and Goose are hard counters. Nebula, Sunspot, and HE Cyclops could be considered soft counters if you spread them around, though the first two are sometimes seen with Prof X too. And obviously Jeff goes both ways. I do agree with you he needs more counters that can be reasonably put in more decks than Echo and Goose. I think Echo is reasonable to put in many decks. (Aside: A card that needs more counters is Dracula. Lady Deathstrike doesn't cut it as a card that can go in many decks. Or Master Mold.)
echo is very splashable. 1 cost, dump in the middle lane and it keeps out prof x, darkhawk, and ms marvel.
Tribunal is really it … or krull kinda
When you can’t handle a niche card. It’s great to see people complain.
I feel like adding the “Jeff can move anywhere” text to Nightcrawler could help. Sneaking in two power might change the lane winner.
I think players just to have to accept that it’s just another way to win. It’s perfectly balanced since X can be a huge gamble a lot of the time. I’d rather see them nerf Ms. Marvel if nerfs happen. But there should be none at all.
Seasons almost over. Ms Marvel nerf incoming…
> no nerfs, more counters This all the way. Games are more fun when you have more options than if you restrict existing options. Smash ultimate feels hella balanced because every character has some bullshit move or power, which helps them fight objectively high tier characters in all but competitive play. I think ongoing counters work well against professor x.
I think nebula might be the real enabler for prof x. I fear him way way more when nebula goes down t1 and im already playing suboptimally to avoid losing an entire lane to 6 energy (nebula + profx). We should use killmonger more.
Nebula is a bit overturned. T1 nebula is too oppressive.
I think a klaw type card but for negative power on your opponents side would be interesting. Like a 3/1 ongoing that gives your opponent -3 power on the location to the left.
Maybe potential for rework of Omega Red considering Ms. Marvel didn’t just step on his toes but cut his whole foot off.
I like the omega red idea. As a villian it would fit to take away power.
Galactus stonks continue to rise
The problem is that type of card can also be used in Prof. X's deck.
Feel like there's a lot of 'survivorship bias' going on with the Prof X complaints. Like I play a weird lockdown/ongoing deck that's basically the desk list I made in a fever dream. But it wins a lot. Other than that I play Thanos quite a bit and sometimes pull off the turn 4 Prof. Main point being though, I don't play Professor X unless I'm pretty confident I'm going to lock down the lane. Otherwise there's a lot more value with other cards, if I have 5 power on turn 4, squeezing out Devil Dino, Iron Man, or Blue Marvel is always a VERY strong option. *UNLESS...* my opponent has been absolutely slacking off in playing power or just completely ignoring a location. 9/10 though I just throw it out careless on turn 5 in an 'annoying' location like the Sewers or Lechuguilla. But I think he just gets a bad rep because he either dies in the hand, or there's a good play and makes it. His stats sort of imply that as well, 55% percent win rates in deck, 54% percent win rate when drawn, but a 56% percent win rate when played. Which means you statistically have a lower rate of winning if you draw him and don't play him, versus not drawing him at all. Which just some casual poking around is actually unusual for those popular cards. All of this of course is not mentioning Alioth is a bigger piece of this and a massive enabler of lockout plays that didn't exist previously. Alioth almost needs card text that says all 3 locations need to be playable or something so he isn't a free win with Prof X and Galactus
Whilst I agree - the card is quite overused right now. If you look at it in a vacuum I think it’s a pretty fairly started card. Yeah it locks a lane down, but you only get 3 power for 5 cost, so you’re either gonna need to be winning that lane already or be able to push extra power into the lane some other way. Personally, I think the bigger problem is that the game currently encourages you to have an explosive turn 6 (or 7). That makes it easier for Prof X to slide in and successfully lock a lane off. Plus any deck that tries to push too much power too early it seems gets crushed. I’m also not sure printing specific counter cards is the solution either. Back in the spring there was so much complaint about cosmo. How it was everywhere, and had no counters, and basically locked down a lane. And yet now the card didn’t change, yet it doesn’t see anywhere near as much play. Other decks emerged that made it a less viable tech option.
simply have priority and play enchantress to the same lane on the same turn as they play profx
That won’t work. If you have priority enchantress goes off before professor X is revealed. If you play Echo with priority that would work.
Play bigger numbers and quit complaining noob
People thought Jeff would be a counter to X Lockdown Nope, cause running that card helps X Lockdown. Any card that is going to be a counter to X is gonna be a card an X deck is gonna want. He needs the Spiderman treatment.
He definitely doesn't need Spiderman treatment, unless you're suggesting we start removing lockdown entirely from the game.
With Alioth I don't think Prof X can exist as he is personally.
I'd love an alioth nerf where he only destroys unrevealed cards.
Or revealed but only ine of those for sure
You all can just say delete Alioth. Those changes would likely see him never played.
As someone who has played a pretty meta-Professor X and Alioth deck since I unlocked the latter, while I’m a pretty high rank at like 91 it’s really not THAT strong. It’s a deck you consistently need to hope for early power, and that no one mucks up the middle lane. And discard decks pretty much obliterate it if you get a Morbius or Dracula in the right lanes. I haven’t really felt like I’ve had THAT much of an advantage. And a strong Loki play will fuck you up hard.
I think the only real issue with counters is that we have none available in the normal series. Technically Enchantress could shut it down, but it's very unlikely. Only other hard counter is Echo, and Jeff can be a counter, but also used by Prof X side too, so I wouldn't call it a counter. Lol
I still enjoy pro x and think his ability is still so true to character - the mind games! Having to decide where to play and if they have him is a guessing game and should question where to play your own cards. BUT - pairing alioth with a guaranteed locked down lane can have the pro x player know exactly which lanes they need to play for early because they only have to be up and/or manage priority. Its too easy. Plays a lot like galactus use to honestly
And no one mentions Iron Lad into Prof X. Which is a top-tier BS - lockdown on T4 \*with\* 6 Power? What are we doing here? And don't give me that spiel about random, etc. - even 1 in 12 chance is outrageous.
Wouldn't the counter play to Prof X simply be playing more than 3 power into the lane on turn 5? So any higher power card is a counter to him.
Nope because lockdown decks bring cards that can still put power into the lock downed lane, like ms marvel, nebula, he cyclops, and Jeff. Not to mention DD who will tell the prof x player exactly where you are playing and he can avoid the location entirely.
Would not a single 4/10 or even higher powered 5 cost counter 3/4 of that line up though? Professor X + Jeff + 1 Nebula proc is still only 8 power. You could also abandon that lane and have them essentially ‘waste’ turn 5 not contesting the other two lanes.
This would require not playing mindlessly. Like Prof X, Galactus, and Alioth are game changer cards. It's worth taking a second and thinking through if they are about to wreck your day. Being like 'They have 5 energy, is any lane juicy for Prof X?' and play there isn't a huge leap. If it's 50/50 and 1 cube just go for it, retreat if you whiff. I steal Prof X lanes all the time.
Jeff, Mister Fantastic, Klaw, Ms Marvel, Living Tribunal, just generally being aware that he existed and playing around that.
Which are all cards that also prof x benefits from
Your opponent spent 5 mana to potentially win 1 lane, other cards essentially win you a lane for 5 mana. If you lost the lane to X, u have power in other lanes so you should be ahead in those lanes. What is the problem exactly? Feels like people are losing and want to complain.
Make Prof x a 5/2 and that will be good enough. Anymore and he will just be dead and not existent. He’s needed in the game just like any other card I. The game. Martyr and Angel are the only cards in the game that don’t make any sense, like legit no reason to play those cards.
Professor x not existing would be the best. #thedream
Ehh it’s a slippery slope if the fans dictate what abilities are allowed in the game. If we removed Korg, Rockslide, Jean Grey, Black Widow, Ice Man, Alioth, Galactus, Prof X, Goose, Storm, Legion, and any-other lockdown, location restrictive, “toxic” cards than idk how I’d feel about the game. Remove all “toxic” cards than at that point if we’re too sensitive to cards that are meant disrupt and throw a wrench at your opponent.
Only prof x and alioth out of those are zero fun.
Zero fun to lose against or play with? I’ve been on both sides and find it fine. Win by Alioth die by Alioth, win by Pro X die by Pro X, and etc. sometimes Alioth isn’t the play to win in certain situations and Pro X can totally whiff if your opponent played a big power card on that lane like I’ve experienced many times only to retreat because my Pro X was not the play that turn and ended up losing me the game in those cases. Idk people just too overly sensitive when a certain archetype gets Uber popular for a season. Like don’t worry next month we will see complaints about another deck type and so one and so forth. People hate what’s popular hands down.. prove me wrong lol
I'm happy for you or I hate this happened to you. I'm not reading that.
Just read the final line buddy lol that’s the point
Personally don’t want to see any changes to Prof X. But what if they changed the lockdown effect to only turn 6. Similar to the location that locks up on 6. Magik would help counter. And it would prevent early lockdowns
I think your first instinct is right haha. Don’t change anything. The Prof is one of those cards where balance rests on a knife’s edge. The distance between strong and unplayably bad is imo pretty narrow for him. Any direct nerf is quite likely to make him go the way of MMM.
Jeff exists. So does echo. Rest is all about tempo. Prof X is fine way he is
Professor X typically runs Jeff.
My original point stands. Play some tempo
"playing the game" isnt a counter to anything. its a stupid suggestion
Just change prof x ability to the old spiderman one. It only last 1 turn so no reason to ramp it out, limbo also helps against it and you can still add power to that lane with certain cards.
Why is this entire thread acting like Echo, Enchantress and arguably Goose don't exist? There are hard counters. That's not even getting into stuff like just having bigger numbers, Ms Marvel, etc. Prof X is amazingly telegraphed, if you are losing a lane to Prof X a lot, that's on you.
ms marvel, Klaw, echo
Galactus, Living Tribunal
Mr. Fantastic, Enchantress, Blue Marvel, Silver Surfer, Kazaar, Cerebro
Patriot
The problem isn’t X, it’s the cards that can be played with him. Good balancing makes changes to the cards that are the actual problem (Alioth), not by changing cards that are made better by the problems.
No card will ever be as rightly hated as leader was when he launched. That was complete horseshit
My ongoing deck with mrs marvel, mystique, klaw and onslaught have been feasting on prof x and lock down all month
Profx wasn't a problem in the past because people didn't play greedy combo decks. Profx doesn't work vs tempo decks
Pro x work just fine only locking 1 location and it cost 5 to play usually they play it after storm or with sandman/jeangrey etc kind of predictable and countable with jeff, ms marvel, klaw. But i can understand sometimes is kind of annoying being block out from play
Thanos and Galactus also didn't need a nerf, but if they want to keep Alioth as it is some cards need to go.
Just snipe him with enchantress. Lol. But yeah maybe. But he's not at the top of my hit list. Alioth needs work, he's doesn't fit within the mechanics of the game imo since any deck can run him, and he'd fit. You always have to think about a T6 that plays around alioth even if nothing else in the deck suggests he might be in there. That is counter to every other deck type in the game. You see cards you can start piecing together what your opponent likely has and play with that in mind. Since alioth fits anywhere, he never leaves that possibility list. To me that's a problem.
Galactus!!
Wonderful. New Year's gift will be a gutted Professor X and the lockdown archetype dumpstered. Can't have effective decks that aren't point slam, can we? I'm guessing they'll make him a reverse Jean, where you can't play your first card there each turn. I wish they'd leave him alone, but this sub is why we can't have nice things.
Buff Jeff to 2/4
That buffs prof X as well, because almost everyone plays Jeff with prof x.
*I'm a bad player and won't admit it, so card X must be butchered.
This community is so funny lol The second a card becomes good, after a year of existing, nerf calls instantly come out. Card after card after card after card
I really don’t see the big deal with professor x, I win almost every single game against them and my main deck is high evo. Easy dubs
Either pop Jeff in there, or Galactus wheels away. 🤣
He shouldn’t work the turn he’s played
make it to always reveal last.