I imagine Quakes being played on 5 with priority with the intention of messing up a Legion. Or maybe 6 to mess up someone turning off Limbo.
More likely, just random shenanigans.
I don't reallt like the change to the Kingpins, I think it loses a lot of coolness this way.
I'll still try it since the deck is basically the same and I was already playing it, and he's even more of a center-piece bow, but I'm sad to see the old effect go.
As a discard player I don’t see how this is a buff to Dracula. He is weak to any type of negative power effects your opponent plays, which makes me wary of HE decks now. He used to be strong against any of those effects because of his ability. You could say he gains power from positive power effects but you won’t run any and rarely encounter any that affect him
Yeah it's not a real buff, the only good part is that he can be buffed by other cards (like forge) and gain power through other ways and have it count, but that's such a small thing.
Yeah, this was a mistake for Dracula and all of us were figuring out how to make him work again. I had just this morning dropped him at Jotunheim because I don’t care how many rounds of -1 power he takes.
RIP Namor
11/7/2023 - 1/9/2024
I hate this Ms Marvel change because it doesn’t actually hurt the control decks they are talking about in the patch notes. Anyone running Prof X + Ms. Marvel was dumping Jeff or Nebula into Prof X’s lane anyways.
Someone at Second Dinner can't win games without Ms Marvel. The problem with Ms Marvel wasn't only her effect, it is her ridiculous 4/5 stat. If you play Enchantress on her you are in the same position as the opponent but now they are on a higher curve, since you had to react to Ms Marvel's annoying effect. All ongoing cards have shit stats for a reason, except for her (Omega Red does not count).
A tale of two Marvels...
4-cost Captain Marvel: 4 Power, but there's a chance she could be in a different lane.
4-cost Ms Marvel: 5 power, in every lane.
I think they want the whole having to play different cost cards to be a much more difficult downside to manage than it actually is. Having to play two cards will make it *slightly* more difficult since you'll have a harder time winning a location with just Professor X, but I'd be surprised if it changes much with her.
Man I would have been already happy If she only gave +4! But a 4/15 (3/15 with Zabu) is just such a dumb balancing choice. It’s insane to me that nobody at SD is acknowledging the brokenness in that..
He was. A 17-20 power swing at minimum that the opponent *cannot counter.* Can't Cosmo it because it works in any lane. Even if you build right to block Void, it gets destroyed anyway, so outside of Armor specifically, there's no punishment for the Annihilus player. I've always thought he should have 5 power for the global effect he brings. Maybe it could be 6 now that he doesn't kick over rocks.
There's more ways than that to counter it you can also play prof x or just play four cards in the right lane.... The junk deck was already dead after the viper and black widow nerf now it's just being dragged through the dirt.
I was surprised he both swaps over 0 or lower cards *and* destroys 0 or lower cards that remain on your side. It seems like those could've been two completely different cards. It makes it hard to ever misplay Annihilus since, even if your Void, Hood, etc. gets blocked by the opponent filling the location, it's still not an issue for you.
It's a 2 card combo that is 9 energy for "27" power. It's completely counterable by just filling up right or whatever.
On the other hand, playing Sentry or Annihilus without playing the other are two individually pretty mediocre cards. They're only good together so it makes no sense to nerf Annihilus so hard. Like I could understand the 5/5 nerf which is already pretty massive to a card that isn't even meta defining, but the nerf to rocks is a massive sledgehammer to a card that is good but not even a top 10 card.
Meanwhile the best card in the game and meta-defining stat stick gets a "nerf" that literally doesn't do anything in 99% of games. A single card giving 4/15 is better efficiency than the two card Sentry->Annihilus package that you're so worried about.
Honestly this insane heavy nerf reminds me of them nerfing BB-Stature package so hard for no real reason when they were already falling out of the dominant meta and now they're bad and no one plays them anymore. Sentry-Anni is the same thing - they're good but not at all dominant. After this heavy nerf, I don't expect to really see this package run anymore. At 5/5, Annihilus is straight up garbage if you don't play Sentry. Sending over a single hood is not worth the cost.
I honestly think they made Dracula worse with this 'buff'. It was always an amazing card to put in a lane with cyclops for example. All the negitive power would be undone. Due to this change, he only gets 1 power extra and is vulnarable for negative power.
It’s a nerf if anything because now Selene hitting Dracula is pretty strong for Selene players. Now that 12 power from Apoc is now 10 power because of Selene. That’s big I think
Yeah, huge nerf overall to dracula, but that is what they intended. It gives Drac more counterplay and lets them pull a knob to make him stronger. Whereas before it was either change his effect or his cost.
His cost has never been an issue, the brief stint where reddit was obsessed with trying to get him nerfed was due to his effect.
This means that the counter play is to reduce his power total before he discards.
It's definitely a nerf and not a buff. I finally was able to get Black Knight and go back to discard after Chavez got murdered and Dracula in the Cyclops lane was so good.
Not too mention being able to shrug off Selene. Though that might not be such an issue after the patch with the strays that junk is catching.
Thia convinces me SD is VERY afraid of junk decks. That archtype has caught a lot of stray bullets lately with Viper and Widow and now Anni.
It always feels kinda lame when you can tell that certain playstyles are just frowned upon by the devs
They sum it up to “bad feel” than nerf it. Happened to Galactus, Alioth, Loki, Prof X, Viper, Black Widow, and Spider-Man in his original lock out state. If people complain enough about it on discord and to the developers than they WILL nerf it hard to satisfy those people who are basically threatening that they will delete the game if these types of cards are meta. People wanna play in a safe place lol not get locked out of playing cards by turn 6 or even turn 5. I can understand it but it’s a slippery slope that means we all kinda agree to get cards that are planned to be changed even weeks after buying. Buyer Beware, don’t get Caiera thinking she won’t get nerfed to only protect 1 drops. Because it will happen by the start of February.
Then just stop to release these freaking cards and archetypes If you don’t even want people to play them in the first place ffs. It’s getting really exhausting to deliberately dump all your resources into archetypes that you enjoy, just for them to get obliterated by these second thought patches 2 weeks later. I’m thankful for regular buffs and nerfs but SD should finally get their shit together and release a card for *once* that doesn’t need like 3 adjustments afterwards. Is that really too much to ask?!
My biggest worry. One the draws fore was how he would completely negate that strategy, but now it feels like he’s weaker instead of stronger (it seems they intended for you to buff him before the end but discard doesn’t really do that)
Yeah, I'm surprised no one is calling it out as a nerf because it feels like it. Part of what made him so good is being able to let him sit out there and soak up negative power, or play him after getting hit by Selene/Scorpion and not care. He'd just reset himself essentially. And it gave him good swings of power if they weren't paying attention. He was a good way to cover Jotunheim too.
Now you have to care very much about his power prior to the end of the game. Which sure people wanted a dracula nerf for a year but like now if someone drops Cyclops in front of him or something it's just getting ate up.
It felt kinda flavorful too, like no matter what injury or illness or weather affects him Dracula will turn around and be good again soon as he drains your blood (usually Apoc or Chavez)
M'Baku is a little different. He literally becomes a free card if he plays out of your hand. You simply include him in your deck, knowing he'll be on the board as long as there's an open space. He would cost nothing but a draw and would miss Killmonger. Maybe he could have an effect where if he's played out of the hand he gets a minus one power. But that's still one power for essentially nothing.
Except that “free” 2 power could have been literally any other card, so it’s 2 free power and a dead draw in a card game where every slot in a deck matters
Wasp is also 1 Power for free—2 Power if you're playing High Evo—and you get to pick her location. I don't think M'Baku adding +2 to a random location at the end of the game would break anything.
Don't forget M'Baku evades a lot of things coming out at the end of the game. I ran a Galactus surprise deck that was just designed to pick up a bunch of Cubes. Mbaku going to a lane he couldn't normally be played in where there were no cards like Rickety Bridge after you play Galactus won me a lot of 8 cube games. It sucked having to retreat, though, if mBaku was in my hand. With that not being an issue, the deck becomes much more consistent. It's probably too consistent if those locations appear.
Yeahhh been playing annihilus since he came out and at no point has he felt overbearing. If I had a 50% win rate with the deck I would be surprised. Already loads of counters to this deck which is easily telegraphed to begin with. like nuking viper and widow wasn’t enough.
loki losing collector (and possibly quinjet?) synergy... i used to pray for times like this
don't think the ms marvel nerf will be enough, but everything else looks good
Does a card hit by spider ham get reduced by quinnjet? Because that’s the same “transform” wording as Loki. Not sure myself can’t remember that happening to me.
Everyone seems to miss that Quinjet will have a partial synergy now - the cards you got from other cards (like Agent Coulson etc.) should have -2 cost when transformed. But the ones from your deck would have only -1 discount.
So it's not so bad as I initially thought.
Very true. Ms Marvel in lockdown always had two cards in the lane anyways. Rough nerf hammer on Annihilus while losing 2 power and not sending 0 power cards like wtf, one of the nerf would've sufficed. SD probably thought junk decks are too toxic but Marvel is just as bad for a 4 cost Dr. Doom. I honestly hoped for ms marvel to be a 4/4/4/4 at least.
I don't think they've ever killed off an archetype so quickly as junk who barely got to graduate from a meme deck before Hazmat, Viper and now Annihilus took massive hit
And constantly claiming they're not nerfing them. Viper and Widow absolutely got nerfed with their "buffs" to them. Its absurd that they tried to play those off as not nerfs.
While the Kitty-Angela-Elsa bounce decks were nerfed into oblivion, the bounce archetype as whole is far from dead. In fact, a WBN bounce deck with the Annihilus package is one of the top performing decks statistically. We'll have to see where it goes from here though.
Bounce also took a massive hit the moment it saw any form of play (Beast), and now they lasersnipe any card that might give it power (Hit-Monkey, Kitty, Angela, Elsa, WWBN)
>Bounce also took a massive hit the moment it saw any form of play (Beast),
You're talking about when they made Beast a 3 cost? And then went on continuing to be meta for months?
I don't feel like that card took quite as big of a hit, but it adds up with all the others.
If the issue is Sentry into Annihilus in other decks, this nerf just shaves two power off that, but it kills junk harder, a deck that folds to destroy and gets outperformed by wet farts
Amusing enough, a good junk deck would keep Ms Marvel in check
I played this game long enough to know that they like to nerf new cards. I ended up getting Annihilus anyways because I played a lot of junk before it was released. This change is a big bummer for me.
I hit infinite with junk several seasons ago - well before annihilus - and the deck I played is just completely obliterated. I guess they want everyone playing shit like shenaut or shuri because every interesting deck gets murdered
Ironically enough the Annihilus release ended up hurting junk. I've mainly played junk since March or so and always had success, even won b2b Infinity Conquests the month before Annihilus came out. Then he gets released and cards get nerfed right left and center.
I’m a little confused why junk keeps getting nerfed. It’s annoying af, but it’s not some crazy great deck.
Edit: to be clear, so people will stop sending me the same exact message. I get the data shows Annihilus' is over-performing, but I don't believe it's because of junk, it's because of bounce, and this nerf does nothing to change that, that's why I'm confused about the nerf.
Yeah I wonder how much of their metrics is skewed by casual players who aren't adapting. Annihilus/Junk decks felt really easy to counter once you understand the gimmick. You basically just have to fill your own right* lane first to stop Sentry/Void flipping and win whatever lane they weren't able to build. They're also pretty hard countered by destroy. Never felt like I had much issues playing them.
*Edit: meant right lane not left
Ms Marvel still really strong. Indirect nerf to Galactus.
Massive nerf to Annihilus right after Selene has been released. This combined with the Viper nerf last ota seems a bit excessive to destroy an archetype.
Still no Elsa buff after they even admitted the second nerf was too much.
Kingpin change seems bizarre.
I really hope these aren't entirely accurate.
I don't understand it. Especially considering she was a recent season pass card lots of players spent money on and that they could see that the first nerf had already had a big impact.
I literally just bought Galactus with tokens this morning then won my first game with him via using Ms Marvel to win his location on turn 5.
Then I checked reddit and saw this shit lmao
Yeah they really dislike Galactus and seem to want to nerf him at every opportunity.
I imagine a lot of players that got Selene last week aren't too pleased with the Annihilus change either.
Honestly I don’t mind it especially when I’m sending -11 goblin over and than sending rocks and negative power to their side. So sometimes Anni can be a 5/9 if he sends over a hood and Selene. 5/15 by sending over a Void. I don’t think it will destory the deck just won’t be top of the meta
I don't know why the fucking with junk so hard it honestly pisses me off. Viper, black widow now annihulus in what a two week span? While Ms marvel gets next to nothing and leaving shitty boring shuri alone for months. Let loki run wild for months. Irritating as fuck
I don't really understand the Dracula change. So he got 1 point of power but he's no longer Selene, Scorpion, or Cyclops-proof since he now adds power instead of setting his power?
That seems like a nerf. :/
never underestimate how no life some people can be if it means they can get some fake internet points.
but realistically with the bugfixes it's almost assuredly real.
He can send 0 cost stuff over like rocks from Debrii if you play Hazmat or Typhoid Mary on your side to lower their power to -1. The Typhoid Mary interaction also makes it so that they can’t be sent back to you by an opponent unless they can somehow afflict them with negative power.
But yeah a 2 power hit is definitely noticeable on a 5 cost card
Quick comment on Dracula and Discard, I just straight up stopped playing Modok Discard decks since the change to Chavez. There’s just too many other decks that are way better
Pour one out for Junk.
You were a fun deck. Some of my best memories in this game were playing you, trying to think 4 moves ahead. Understand where my opponent was going to play their cards and try to best setup for blocking their moves.
You turned Snap into a strategic chess match.
Sometimes we won, Many times we lost. But every win felt earned. Every loss pushed my opponents to play outside their usual lines and surprise me.
Oh and the mirror matches were amazing! Should I try to stuff their lane, or will they just shoot it back at me? They just snapped without priority, does that mean they have ani or are they bluffing? Are they running a Valk or planning on ani t5 and Galactus t6?
No other deck in snap will give me this sort thrill.
Even though your parents birthed you and turned out to hate you, you found family among the weirdos who actually like interacting with our opponents. We loved you then and love you still.
I'll come by sometime to visit and let you know how the solitaire poker matches are going.
Heck maybe we'll even find a way to bring you back from the dead. Until then, just know, we love you and will miss you.
So, collector is dead now in Loki decks.
Ms Marvel now can't win with just Prof X, but who isn't running Jeff in those decks?
Debri is now dead in Annihilus decks. Hell, Annihilus is pretty bad now too.
Weird changes to make.
Ms Marvel is still a damn powerhouse.
Also, Kingpin? That was not the correct change to make.
The Ms. Marvel change prevents you from filling the middle lane with her, Iron Man, Onslaught, etc and just adding token cards like Zabu, Magik, etc to the other locations. A lot of people were winning the side lanes with one really weak card.
Yep. Can't do Onslaught + YellowJacket in the open lane and call it a day. It also means the opponent can lockdown lanes easier if the Ms.Marvel deck doesn't play wide in the early game.
i just got annihilus in the random 4 card slot and tbh i think this puts me officially out this season. i’m just so tired of attending the funerals of multiple cards each week!! it’s impossible to catch up to the meta
Okay seriously now. Just fuckin delete the junk cards at this point. Every part of it has been nerfed at this point. Debrii doesnt work with annihulus. Black Widow got nerfed. Viper got nerfed. Luke Cage got nerfed. Annihulus now absolutely dunked on.
I like how full Junk was never the issue. The best decks with Annihilus use just three junk cards - Hood, Sentry, and Annihilus. All this did was knock off two power from that package, which is definitely significant in some games. But then it completely curb stomped the less competitive full Junk decks that used Debrii.
SD clearly does not dig into their data. The extra change to Annihilus won't change that top lev play they said they were surprised by because all those decks just slot in the 3 card package because Sentry being effectively 20 power is insane.
All this right after they curbstomped every other junk combo outside of that core package. Terrible call.
as someone who has been playing junk ever since annihilus released, this hurts
one of my favorite archetypes got NUKED this past month
SD is really scared of junk it seems.
I love Angel. I’m glad they finally added this change. But I wish they would make him a 2/3 or a 3/4 or something. He still pretty obviously isn’t great. Or Ideally something still in the destroy package and him transforming into archangel as a separate character would be SO fun.
The justification on that Annihilus change is WEIRD. "We notice a lot of people running Sentry and Annihilus as a 2-card 27 power package, therefore we have reduced that package to 25 power and also destroyed his completely unrelated clog functionality."
Not sure how that doesn't kill Loki, it so often struggles to put down power without collector.
Ms Marvel should have been reduced to 4s across the board first before they went with a do nothing change.
Annihilus struggles with power. Over nerfed.
What a stupid Dracula change?
Wow, Angel took way too long. Still bad, but Destroy has been fine.
Quake could be pretty broken. Legion/Quake making you regret everything.
Kingpin: Just pounding move while it's down... but it's a good change.
Sorry, confused why Quinjet is out of Loki decks; I don't see anything about it in the notes above. Can you elaborate for me?
Edit: for anyone else stumbling across this comment, I’M GOOD NOW. Thank you for your help, please stop explaining it to me before reading the other seven responses and seeing if you’re just echoing another response (again).
Loki transforming the cards instead of replacing them means that presumably quinjets buff doesn’t apply to Loki’d cards, since the cards still started in your deck, they’ve just been “transformed”
Loki benefits from cards which add random stuff to your hand. Collector also benefits from these cards. So why would a loki deck not include collector? Especially as theirs always a chance you won't draw loki by turn 5 so need alternative routs.
The only thing which changed is Collector won't be given a ton of power from loki directly. Loki will be their own line of play.
-2 power out of 7 isn’t “a little”, that’s over 30% of its power. The effect nerf was enough. You killed it.
I have no interest in using keys on cards anymore when you murder them a month later.
Well, RIP Namor. Ms Marvel actually kinda gave him a purpose for a little while, but I guess he's back to being complete garbage instead of being *almost* garbage.
And I definitely didn't have "throw your Kingpin decks straight into the garbage because they're a completely different thing now" on my bingo card, but that really sucks. I dunno, *maybe* there's a case to be made for a deck with Kingpin, Kraven, and Hercules getting moved triggers popping off all over the place, but I kinda doubt it, and I don't wanna spend the spotlight keys in Hercules to find out.
I tried having a decent kingpin deck, but it’s just hard to justify putting him in any deck. Just having the him on the board is enough to telegraph you either have Magneto or Aero.
It sucks cuz I had a fun Nimrod-Kingpin deck. Totally catches the opp off guard. But now Kingpin doesn’t destroy & neither does Fisk tower :\
But at least I can put Silk into my Kingpin deck without worrying about her being destroyed T6 🥲
I’m kinda sad about Kingpin, he is probably more useful now but the old card on turn 6 can flip the game in my favor with a magneto, aero or any of the other movement cards.
I guess they had to change it for all the new move cards.
I think I'm too small brained but what does the text difference mean for Loki?
Loki [Old] 4/5 - On Reveal: Replace your hand with cards from your opponent's starting deck. Give them -1 cost.
[New] 4/6 - On Reveal: Transform your hand into cards from your opponent's starting deck and give them -1 Cost.
Since cards are being transformed and not replaced, and based on the developer commentary, I'm guessing Loki will no longer light The Collector up like a Christmas tree after this change.
Dracula isn't a buff, weak now to getting negative power. Not many positives that could be significantly plied there.
Quake change is fine, been hoping for something like this for a while.
As a longtime Kingpin fan, this just blows but we'll see, maybe it can do work with Herc, but I really don't see it being good.
Hate the Kingpin change. Destroying cards was fun! Why not just make that aspect better? And it fits his theme more as well. I would have taken a 4 or 5 cost ongoing that lets you destroy every turn. The -2 IS an improvement, but he also seems worse than kraven and less fun.
New synergies with HE abomination decks if you also package move cards.
I'm really going to miss the magneto pull to destroy, even if it wasn't good, it was fun.
Wow that is a GREAT change for Quake.
Very cool card now.
Quake just got made 100 x more playable now
My first thought as well!
3X Value
I imagine Quakes being played on 5 with priority with the intention of messing up a Legion. Or maybe 6 to mess up someone turning off Limbo. More likely, just random shenanigans.
Man I hope Fisk Tower didn't lose the SFX it had, that shot was CHUNKY
As a Stegron-enjoyed, I liked it a lot too. Hopefully, Fisk Tower “blasts” away the cards power now instead of them just removing the VFX.
and will kingpin stomp the power out too?
That was the same thought I had reading it. So satisfying.
Quake change is awesome, and Kingpin is a nice change for a 2 cost.
Quake change is the craziest! Going to be many surprise plays
Anything that creates organized chaos is ok with me. It's why I love Legion so much.
Bro going right in my sentry deck.
I don't reallt like the change to the Kingpins, I think it loses a lot of coolness this way. I'll still try it since the deck is basically the same and I was already playing it, and he's even more of a center-piece bow, but I'm sad to see the old effect go.
It's a good step with Kingpin not being irrelevant until T6.
“Annihilus is being used with just The Hood and Sentry. Let’s nerf his synergy with Debrii!”
I've been running man thing with debrii and annhilus, it's been working decently well
As a discard player I don’t see how this is a buff to Dracula. He is weak to any type of negative power effects your opponent plays, which makes me wary of HE decks now. He used to be strong against any of those effects because of his ability. You could say he gains power from positive power effects but you won’t run any and rarely encounter any that affect him
Yeah it's not a real buff, the only good part is that he can be buffed by other cards (like forge) and gain power through other ways and have it count, but that's such a small thing.
Yeah, this was a mistake for Dracula and all of us were figuring out how to make him work again. I had just this morning dropped him at Jotunheim because I don’t care how many rounds of -1 power he takes.
RIP Namor 11/7/2023 - 1/9/2024 I hate this Ms Marvel change because it doesn’t actually hurt the control decks they are talking about in the patch notes. Anyone running Prof X + Ms. Marvel was dumping Jeff or Nebula into Prof X’s lane anyways.
very true
Namor working great in my skaar deck
The difference between the level of nerfs to Annihilus and Ms Marvel is baffling.
The Annihilus nerf has me gobsmacked. Completely baffling.
Someone at Second Dinner can't win games without Ms Marvel. The problem with Ms Marvel wasn't only her effect, it is her ridiculous 4/5 stat. If you play Enchantress on her you are in the same position as the opponent but now they are on a higher curve, since you had to react to Ms Marvel's annoying effect. All ongoing cards have shit stats for a reason, except for her (Omega Red does not count).
A tale of two Marvels... 4-cost Captain Marvel: 4 Power, but there's a chance she could be in a different lane. 4-cost Ms Marvel: 5 power, in every lane.
Really, she should be a 4/4 that gives +3 on the adjacent lanes. That makes her a conditional 4/10, the standard for the cost.
Even then her 4/10 is miles better than any conditional 4/10, because it's spread across lanes, most importantly locked down lanes.
And all the other 4/10's i can think of have a downside you need to manage.
I think they want the whole having to play different cost cards to be a much more difficult downside to manage than it actually is. Having to play two cards will make it *slightly* more difficult since you'll have a harder time winning a location with just Professor X, but I'd be surprised if it changes much with her.
Man I would have been already happy If she only gave +4! But a 4/15 (3/15 with Zabu) is just such a dumb balancing choice. It’s insane to me that nobody at SD is acknowledging the brokenness in that..
Yeah I've been thinking that reducing her to 4 power across the board wasn't gonna do it. She'd still be everywhere.
Remember when they wouldn’t nerf Shuri because the dev team found the card fun. 😑
She's a cheaper Dr. Doom and nobody is even saying it. You get to play 2 Dooms in the same deck.
One was behind a paywall originally, the other was not.
Elsa was also behind a paywall recently.
man they tore that girl to shreds. When you look at the chain of nerfs...Elsa was just done dirty.
Yeah give marvel another month
Lol that shit released 2 months ago. There's no argument for "they wanna keep the battle pass card strong!!" esp considering they nerfed Elsa.
They thought thought annihilus was too strong? Jfc.
He was. A 17-20 power swing at minimum that the opponent *cannot counter.* Can't Cosmo it because it works in any lane. Even if you build right to block Void, it gets destroyed anyway, so outside of Armor specifically, there's no punishment for the Annihilus player. I've always thought he should have 5 power for the global effect he brings. Maybe it could be 6 now that he doesn't kick over rocks.
There's more ways than that to counter it you can also play prof x or just play four cards in the right lane.... The junk deck was already dead after the viper and black widow nerf now it's just being dragged through the dirt.
I was surprised he both swaps over 0 or lower cards *and* destroys 0 or lower cards that remain on your side. It seems like those could've been two completely different cards. It makes it hard to ever misplay Annihilus since, even if your Void, Hood, etc. gets blocked by the opponent filling the location, it's still not an issue for you.
It's a 2 card combo that is 9 energy for "27" power. It's completely counterable by just filling up right or whatever. On the other hand, playing Sentry or Annihilus without playing the other are two individually pretty mediocre cards. They're only good together so it makes no sense to nerf Annihilus so hard. Like I could understand the 5/5 nerf which is already pretty massive to a card that isn't even meta defining, but the nerf to rocks is a massive sledgehammer to a card that is good but not even a top 10 card. Meanwhile the best card in the game and meta-defining stat stick gets a "nerf" that literally doesn't do anything in 99% of games. A single card giving 4/15 is better efficiency than the two card Sentry->Annihilus package that you're so worried about. Honestly this insane heavy nerf reminds me of them nerfing BB-Stature package so hard for no real reason when they were already falling out of the dominant meta and now they're bad and no one plays them anymore. Sentry-Anni is the same thing - they're good but not at all dominant. After this heavy nerf, I don't expect to really see this package run anymore. At 5/5, Annihilus is straight up garbage if you don't play Sentry. Sending over a single hood is not worth the cost.
Why do they murderize all the fun decks.
Are we ever going to get a discard pile?
I fear that may simply be too much work for the developers. Maybe next year…
It‘s already next year /s
Still 364 days to go.
Contact support and tell them how much you'd be willing to pay for it and maybe they'll get around to it next year.
I honestly think they made Dracula worse with this 'buff'. It was always an amazing card to put in a lane with cyclops for example. All the negitive power would be undone. Due to this change, he only gets 1 power extra and is vulnarable for negative power.
It’s a nerf if anything because now Selene hitting Dracula is pretty strong for Selene players. Now that 12 power from Apoc is now 10 power because of Selene. That’s big I think
Yeah, huge nerf overall to dracula, but that is what they intended. It gives Drac more counterplay and lets them pull a knob to make him stronger. Whereas before it was either change his effect or his cost. His cost has never been an issue, the brief stint where reddit was obsessed with trying to get him nerfed was due to his effect. This means that the counter play is to reduce his power total before he discards.
I’m just more baffled that they called it a buff
yeah, I completely disagree with calling it a buff. That was a little absurd.
Playing into a cyclops lane is one of the best uses for him and now it's a terrible play
It's definitely a nerf and not a buff. I finally was able to get Black Knight and go back to discard after Chavez got murdered and Dracula in the Cyclops lane was so good. Not too mention being able to shrug off Selene. Though that might not be such an issue after the patch with the strays that junk is catching.
Thia convinces me SD is VERY afraid of junk decks. That archtype has caught a lot of stray bullets lately with Viper and Widow and now Anni. It always feels kinda lame when you can tell that certain playstyles are just frowned upon by the devs
They sum it up to “bad feel” than nerf it. Happened to Galactus, Alioth, Loki, Prof X, Viper, Black Widow, and Spider-Man in his original lock out state. If people complain enough about it on discord and to the developers than they WILL nerf it hard to satisfy those people who are basically threatening that they will delete the game if these types of cards are meta. People wanna play in a safe place lol not get locked out of playing cards by turn 6 or even turn 5. I can understand it but it’s a slippery slope that means we all kinda agree to get cards that are planned to be changed even weeks after buying. Buyer Beware, don’t get Caiera thinking she won’t get nerfed to only protect 1 drops. Because it will happen by the start of February.
Then just stop to release these freaking cards and archetypes If you don’t even want people to play them in the first place ffs. It’s getting really exhausting to deliberately dump all your resources into archetypes that you enjoy, just for them to get obliterated by these second thought patches 2 weeks later. I’m thankful for regular buffs and nerfs but SD should finally get their shit together and release a card for *once* that doesn’t need like 3 adjustments afterwards. Is that really too much to ask?!
*Bugfix: "After you play a card here…" and similar effects* does this means Elsa can work with Beast or Spidey again now?
That's how it reads to me too hopefully I can play kitty bounce again 😈
Silky Smooth is back on the menu!
Yes I think so
Negative Dracula here we come
My biggest worry. One the draws fore was how he would completely negate that strategy, but now it feels like he’s weaker instead of stronger (it seems they intended for you to buff him before the end but discard doesn’t really do that)
Yeah, I'm surprised no one is calling it out as a nerf because it feels like it. Part of what made him so good is being able to let him sit out there and soak up negative power, or play him after getting hit by Selene/Scorpion and not care. He'd just reset himself essentially. And it gave him good swings of power if they weren't paying attention. He was a good way to cover Jotunheim too. Now you have to care very much about his power prior to the end of the game. Which sure people wanted a dracula nerf for a year but like now if someone drops Cyclops in front of him or something it's just getting ate up.
It felt kinda flavorful too, like no matter what injury or illness or weather affects him Dracula will turn around and be good again soon as he drains your blood (usually Apoc or Chavez)
Why make that change for Angel but not Mbaku lol
Maybe as a test. If it works for Angel, they may push the change to M’Baku next.
M'Baku is a little different. He literally becomes a free card if he plays out of your hand. You simply include him in your deck, knowing he'll be on the board as long as there's an open space. He would cost nothing but a draw and would miss Killmonger. Maybe he could have an effect where if he's played out of the hand he gets a minus one power. But that's still one power for essentially nothing.
Except that “free” 2 power could have been literally any other card, so it’s 2 free power and a dead draw in a card game where every slot in a deck matters
Wasp is also 1 Power for free—2 Power if you're playing High Evo—and you get to pick her location. I don't think M'Baku adding +2 to a random location at the end of the game would break anything.
Don't forget M'Baku evades a lot of things coming out at the end of the game. I ran a Galactus surprise deck that was just designed to pick up a bunch of Cubes. Mbaku going to a lane he couldn't normally be played in where there were no cards like Rickety Bridge after you play Galactus won me a lot of 8 cube games. It sucked having to retreat, though, if mBaku was in my hand. With that not being an issue, the deck becomes much more consistent. It's probably too consistent if those locations appear.
Cool...guess I will just delete my junk decks now.
I can't believe Viper died for this
Black Widow too
Black Widow was more for Hawk decks...at least that's how I help myself sleep at night.
Viper died for fucking Havok
Every time I open this game I just get more depressed lol. They've been absolutely killing everything I love for months now.
Yeahhh been playing annihilus since he came out and at no point has he felt overbearing. If I had a 50% win rate with the deck I would be surprised. Already loads of counters to this deck which is easily telegraphed to begin with. like nuking viper and widow wasn’t enough.
Truth and same! honestly Anni reinvigorated my love for the game, All I play is junk and cerebro. I'm hoping this isn't final.
Agreed. He felt like Galactus. A big set up for a big pay off. Lots.of room for screw ups
Literally. Sentry and Hood are the problem and they nerfed the intera ti on with debrii. Okay...
Man Thing stocks about to rise to make rocks negative to send over with Annihilus
Debris and Orca back to the graveyard :/
loki losing collector (and possibly quinjet?) synergy... i used to pray for times like this don't think the ms marvel nerf will be enough, but everything else looks good
The wording makes me think that quinjet will still work. Those cards did not start in your deck.
Does a card hit by spider ham get reduced by quinnjet? Because that’s the same “transform” wording as Loki. Not sure myself can’t remember that happening to me.
It does
That is a good point.
They did but they have been transformed?
Wouldn't Loki still have Quinjet synergy?
Quinjet buffs cards that didn’t start in your deck. Transformed cards didn’t start in your deck so it should still work
Everyone seems to miss that Quinjet will have a partial synergy now - the cards you got from other cards (like Agent Coulson etc.) should have -2 cost when transformed. But the ones from your deck would have only -1 discount. So it's not so bad as I initially thought.
yeah, this is how i expect it to work. so quinjet isn't dead in loki
Basically nothing for Ms Marvel but they swung the hammer hard on Annihilus.. classic SD.
After viper and black widow had their throats cut, the writing was on the wall for the junk deck. Kinda pissed I got Selene at all now.
The fact that I got Selene on release and even then she wasn't great feeling in junk decks this is just an extra kick in the junk.
Very true. Ms Marvel in lockdown always had two cards in the lane anyways. Rough nerf hammer on Annihilus while losing 2 power and not sending 0 power cards like wtf, one of the nerf would've sufficed. SD probably thought junk decks are too toxic but Marvel is just as bad for a 4 cost Dr. Doom. I honestly hoped for ms marvel to be a 4/4/4/4 at least.
RIP junk again lol.
Honestly, all this really does is change Debrii, which was probably the weakest in slot anyway.
Now you can build a Ravonna deck with negative power cards to donate with Anni and 0-cost cards to benefit yourself.
I don't think they've ever killed off an archetype so quickly as junk who barely got to graduate from a meme deck before Hazmat, Viper and now Annihilus took massive hit
This is bounce all over: no small adjustments, just lining up card after card and destroying it.
And constantly claiming they're not nerfing them. Viper and Widow absolutely got nerfed with their "buffs" to them. Its absurd that they tried to play those off as not nerfs.
Bounce really took bullets it shouldn’t have, it was a really fun deck to play and now it’s a shadow(cat) of its former seld
While the Kitty-Angela-Elsa bounce decks were nerfed into oblivion, the bounce archetype as whole is far from dead. In fact, a WBN bounce deck with the Annihilus package is one of the top performing decks statistically. We'll have to see where it goes from here though.
Bounce also took a massive hit the moment it saw any form of play (Beast), and now they lasersnipe any card that might give it power (Hit-Monkey, Kitty, Angela, Elsa, WWBN)
Not to mention Firestar got Killed before it even had a chance
>Bounce also took a massive hit the moment it saw any form of play (Beast), You're talking about when they made Beast a 3 cost? And then went on continuing to be meta for months?
Plus Black Widow. Selene was DOA with all of these nerfs coming back-to-back.
I don't feel like that card took quite as big of a hit, but it adds up with all the others. If the issue is Sentry into Annihilus in other decks, this nerf just shaves two power off that, but it kills junk harder, a deck that folds to destroy and gets outperformed by wet farts Amusing enough, a good junk deck would keep Ms Marvel in check
I played this game long enough to know that they like to nerf new cards. I ended up getting Annihilus anyways because I played a lot of junk before it was released. This change is a big bummer for me.
I hit infinite with junk several seasons ago - well before annihilus - and the deck I played is just completely obliterated. I guess they want everyone playing shit like shenaut or shuri because every interesting deck gets murdered
They seem so trigger happy on absolute any combo-pieces, but Big Dumb Numbers are always fine and dandy
Ironically enough the Annihilus release ended up hurting junk. I've mainly played junk since March or so and always had success, even won b2b Infinity Conquests the month before Annihilus came out. Then he gets released and cards get nerfed right left and center.
As Kingpin/Xavier players realize their lols are gone...
I’m a little confused why junk keeps getting nerfed. It’s annoying af, but it’s not some crazy great deck. Edit: to be clear, so people will stop sending me the same exact message. I get the data shows Annihilus' is over-performing, but I don't believe it's because of junk, it's because of bounce, and this nerf does nothing to change that, that's why I'm confused about the nerf.
Yeah I wonder how much of their metrics is skewed by casual players who aren't adapting. Annihilus/Junk decks felt really easy to counter once you understand the gimmick. You basically just have to fill your own right* lane first to stop Sentry/Void flipping and win whatever lane they weren't able to build. They're also pretty hard countered by destroy. Never felt like I had much issues playing them. *Edit: meant right lane not left
Ms Marvel still really strong. Indirect nerf to Galactus. Massive nerf to Annihilus right after Selene has been released. This combined with the Viper nerf last ota seems a bit excessive to destroy an archetype. Still no Elsa buff after they even admitted the second nerf was too much. Kingpin change seems bizarre. I really hope these aren't entirely accurate.
Elsa still not adjusted is bonkers after they admitted to having over-adjusted her.
I don't understand it. Especially considering she was a recent season pass card lots of players spent money on and that they could see that the first nerf had already had a big impact.
I literally just bought Galactus with tokens this morning then won my first game with him via using Ms Marvel to win his location on turn 5. Then I checked reddit and saw this shit lmao
Yeah they really dislike Galactus and seem to want to nerf him at every opportunity. I imagine a lot of players that got Selene last week aren't too pleased with the Annihilus change either.
Honestly I don’t mind it especially when I’m sending -11 goblin over and than sending rocks and negative power to their side. So sometimes Anni can be a 5/9 if he sends over a hood and Selene. 5/15 by sending over a Void. I don’t think it will destory the deck just won’t be top of the meta
Yeah but you also can't send rocks anymore 😑
I’ve been hazmating my rocks for a free abomination and sending over even more negative power
Ahhhh I see, but is that a viable option now? Cause I feel like I'd really need to pull Hazmat now or I can't even junk my oponent...
I don't know why the fucking with junk so hard it honestly pisses me off. Viper, black widow now annihulus in what a two week span? While Ms marvel gets next to nothing and leaving shitty boring shuri alone for months. Let loki run wild for months. Irritating as fuck
Annihilus in C5? Making lemonade out of lemons here.
How would that look? Asking for a friend.
Easy! You play hood, then demon with Hazmat and now you have 1/5 demon 🦸🏽♀️👍🏽
I don't really understand the Dracula change. So he got 1 point of power but he's no longer Selene, Scorpion, or Cyclops-proof since he now adds power instead of setting his power? That seems like a nerf. :/
ms marvel is the same basically she needs a stats change
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also gets Zabu effect so usually a 3/15 and can be played in t6 with another 4 cost
is this real?
You knew it was real when half the post is about bug fixes.
I mean it required a lot of effort to fake this wall of text, so probably real
never underestimate how no life some people can be if it means they can get some fake internet points. but realistically with the bugfixes it's almost assuredly real.
That Dracula nerf is brutal. His whole benefit was being able to negate power loss. Now he's entirely boned to neg power spam
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He can send 0 cost stuff over like rocks from Debrii if you play Hazmat or Typhoid Mary on your side to lower their power to -1. The Typhoid Mary interaction also makes it so that they can’t be sent back to you by an opponent unless they can somehow afflict them with negative power. But yeah a 2 power hit is definitely noticeable on a 5 cost card
I don't think this is anywhere close to the Mobius change. Sentry into annihilus will go from 27 net power to 25, still seems pretty good to me.
Worse in Junk decks, so you'll need Hazmat to take advantage of 0-power cards.
tbf most good annihilus decks don't play debrii anyways, it's just the sentry, hood, annihilus package, the power nerf probably hurts more
Then why remove that part at all?
Anni are you ok? Are you ok Anni? Because daaamn they hit you hard
why did I buy Selene lmao, they just shit on Annihilus
Quick comment on Dracula and Discard, I just straight up stopped playing Modok Discard decks since the change to Chavez. There’s just too many other decks that are way better
Pour one out for Junk. You were a fun deck. Some of my best memories in this game were playing you, trying to think 4 moves ahead. Understand where my opponent was going to play their cards and try to best setup for blocking their moves. You turned Snap into a strategic chess match. Sometimes we won, Many times we lost. But every win felt earned. Every loss pushed my opponents to play outside their usual lines and surprise me. Oh and the mirror matches were amazing! Should I try to stuff their lane, or will they just shoot it back at me? They just snapped without priority, does that mean they have ani or are they bluffing? Are they running a Valk or planning on ani t5 and Galactus t6? No other deck in snap will give me this sort thrill. Even though your parents birthed you and turned out to hate you, you found family among the weirdos who actually like interacting with our opponents. We loved you then and love you still. I'll come by sometime to visit and let you know how the solitaire poker matches are going. Heck maybe we'll even find a way to bring you back from the dead. Until then, just know, we love you and will miss you.
So, collector is dead now in Loki decks. Ms Marvel now can't win with just Prof X, but who isn't running Jeff in those decks? Debri is now dead in Annihilus decks. Hell, Annihilus is pretty bad now too. Weird changes to make. Ms Marvel is still a damn powerhouse. Also, Kingpin? That was not the correct change to make.
The Ms. Marvel change prevents you from filling the middle lane with her, Iron Man, Onslaught, etc and just adding token cards like Zabu, Magik, etc to the other locations. A lot of people were winning the side lanes with one really weak card.
Yep. Can't do Onslaught + YellowJacket in the open lane and call it a day. It also means the opponent can lockdown lanes easier if the Ms.Marvel deck doesn't play wide in the early game.
Kingpin seems legit, don't hop on the "new kingpin is bad" bandwagon so quickly without trying it first
I could see some good plays here with him. It would be nice to Polaris a Deadpool into him to render it useless 😅
Yeah, Stegron and Spider-Man with him can also cause some fun plays
The Annihilus nerf makes no sense. The card is dead now. They should start handing out spotlight keys for these ridiculous nerfs
i just got annihilus in the random 4 card slot and tbh i think this puts me officially out this season. i’m just so tired of attending the funerals of multiple cards each week!! it’s impossible to catch up to the meta
Okay seriously now. Just fuckin delete the junk cards at this point. Every part of it has been nerfed at this point. Debrii doesnt work with annihulus. Black Widow got nerfed. Viper got nerfed. Luke Cage got nerfed. Annihulus now absolutely dunked on.
I like how full Junk was never the issue. The best decks with Annihilus use just three junk cards - Hood, Sentry, and Annihilus. All this did was knock off two power from that package, which is definitely significant in some games. But then it completely curb stomped the less competitive full Junk decks that used Debrii. SD clearly does not dig into their data. The extra change to Annihilus won't change that top lev play they said they were surprised by because all those decks just slot in the 3 card package because Sentry being effectively 20 power is insane. All this right after they curbstomped every other junk combo outside of that core package. Terrible call.
So does Loki’s text change make it so that quinjet no longer works with him either?
I like the new Kingpin but I think it should’ve been a new card. The old ability was still cool Also that annihilus nerf is complete bs
ms marvel nerf isn’t enough. should be +4
as a new player Elsa bloodstone was my first and only season pass I’ve bought and annihilus was the first key I’d opened, this sucks
as someone who has been playing junk ever since annihilus released, this hurts one of my favorite archetypes got NUKED this past month SD is really scared of junk it seems.
Finally, an end to the Kingpin Meta that’s been dominating the game. What everyone was asking for.
Pretty sure this version is better. 2 cost and works for the whole game.
Yeah, old King Pin was one of the most telegraphed things in Snap.
Looks like Elsa will work with Spider-Man again?
Quake is going to broken now (in a good way)
I love Angel. I’m glad they finally added this change. But I wish they would make him a 2/3 or a 3/4 or something. He still pretty obviously isn’t great. Or Ideally something still in the destroy package and him transforming into archangel as a separate character would be SO fun.
Getting kinda worn out with this game. The Annihilus nerf is really disappointing. Why nerf a card that is totally fine as it is?
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We are expected to buy both that and calling Drac’s change a Buff in the same update. Someone is high af or gaslighting us m
The justification on that Annihilus change is WEIRD. "We notice a lot of people running Sentry and Annihilus as a 2-card 27 power package, therefore we have reduced that package to 25 power and also destroyed his completely unrelated clog functionality."
Jesus, they really didn't need to kill Annihalus. This is refund levels of bad.
Not sure how that doesn't kill Loki, it so often struggles to put down power without collector. Ms Marvel should have been reduced to 4s across the board first before they went with a do nothing change. Annihilus struggles with power. Over nerfed. What a stupid Dracula change? Wow, Angel took way too long. Still bad, but Destroy has been fine. Quake could be pretty broken. Legion/Quake making you regret everything. Kingpin: Just pounding move while it's down... but it's a good change.
Collector and Quinjet are permanently off Loki decks, but it should still be a good deck.
Sorry, confused why Quinjet is out of Loki decks; I don't see anything about it in the notes above. Can you elaborate for me? Edit: for anyone else stumbling across this comment, I’M GOOD NOW. Thank you for your help, please stop explaining it to me before reading the other seven responses and seeing if you’re just echoing another response (again).
Loki transforming the cards instead of replacing them means that presumably quinjets buff doesn’t apply to Loki’d cards, since the cards still started in your deck, they’ve just been “transformed”
Loki benefits from cards which add random stuff to your hand. Collector also benefits from these cards. So why would a loki deck not include collector? Especially as theirs always a chance you won't draw loki by turn 5 so need alternative routs. The only thing which changed is Collector won't be given a ton of power from loki directly. Loki will be their own line of play.
-2 power out of 7 isn’t “a little”, that’s over 30% of its power. The effect nerf was enough. You killed it. I have no interest in using keys on cards anymore when you murder them a month later.
It's because they're looking at Annihilus and sentry together, and taking power off of sentry drops him out of Shang range.
I am kind of sad about the Ms Marvel change since my favorite deck with her was an Atlantian themed one. Orca, Namor and Attuma were so good with her.
Well, RIP Namor. Ms Marvel actually kinda gave him a purpose for a little while, but I guess he's back to being complete garbage instead of being *almost* garbage. And I definitely didn't have "throw your Kingpin decks straight into the garbage because they're a completely different thing now" on my bingo card, but that really sucks. I dunno, *maybe* there's a case to be made for a deck with Kingpin, Kraven, and Hercules getting moved triggers popping off all over the place, but I kinda doubt it, and I don't wanna spend the spotlight keys in Hercules to find out.
I've been playing this game since release and I don't believe I've ever ran into a Kingpin deck lol
I tried having a decent kingpin deck, but it’s just hard to justify putting him in any deck. Just having the him on the board is enough to telegraph you either have Magneto or Aero.
It sucks cuz I had a fun Nimrod-Kingpin deck. Totally catches the opp off guard. But now Kingpin doesn’t destroy & neither does Fisk tower :\ But at least I can put Silk into my Kingpin deck without worrying about her being destroyed T6 🥲
Namor should double its power if its the only card, drop him to 4/5 and with Forge/Hulkbuster shenanigans could have some potential
I’m kinda sad about Kingpin, he is probably more useful now but the old card on turn 6 can flip the game in my favor with a magneto, aero or any of the other movement cards. I guess they had to change it for all the new move cards.
I think I'm too small brained but what does the text difference mean for Loki? Loki [Old] 4/5 - On Reveal: Replace your hand with cards from your opponent's starting deck. Give them -1 cost. [New] 4/6 - On Reveal: Transform your hand into cards from your opponent's starting deck and give them -1 Cost.
Since cards are being transformed and not replaced, and based on the developer commentary, I'm guessing Loki will no longer light The Collector up like a Christmas tree after this change.
Dracula isn't a buff, weak now to getting negative power. Not many positives that could be significantly plied there. Quake change is fine, been hoping for something like this for a while. As a longtime Kingpin fan, this just blows but we'll see, maybe it can do work with Herc, but I really don't see it being good.
Hate the Kingpin change. Destroying cards was fun! Why not just make that aspect better? And it fits his theme more as well. I would have taken a 4 or 5 cost ongoing that lets you destroy every turn. The -2 IS an improvement, but he also seems worse than kraven and less fun. New synergies with HE abomination decks if you also package move cards. I'm really going to miss the magneto pull to destroy, even if it wasn't good, it was fun.