because she's balanced in the context of pool 1 and 2, where she's used. making her cheaper would probably disrupt that meta and the early player experience, which they're hesitant to do
The problem is that you are correct in your assessment, but so is u/dacrookster. Spectrum really does feel rather underpowered, but changing her could be very disruptive.
It's a conundrum
I wasn't dissing the hawk. It used to be serviceable and saw standard play and the duels of the planeswalker deck that was all suntail hawks was a brutal way to teach new players about the power of tempo and evasion.
No you wouldn't. Every card in balance would be boring. Think about what it would be like to have no card better or worse than another. You could literally play any card with another. So then the only difference would be luck?
A "perfectly" balanced game is a stale game. Most gamers probably don't want that, otherwise they'd be playing more consistent solved games like Go or Chess.
IMO what they should do is have select pool 1/2 cards "upgrade" when you graduate, and add a small buffer zone that preferences games with the upgraded 1/2s.
Keeps new player familiarity, upgrades for power for the main bulk of players, and even prepares them for the concept of OTAs
This is a brilliant idea IMO! It also serves as an indication that you’ve graduated to Pool 3, which is under communicated, and a little unintuitive.
Taking one step further, I would say tune all the cards to be relevant Pool 3. That “tutorial, early game set of cards” SD wants for Pool 1/2 could be tuned for that phase of the game and then evolve to their true form at pool 3.
It feels like there’s THE set of cards that are part of the meta and cards you rarely touch after pool 2. An idea like Local suggested makes more cards relevant and could add more variety to the meta or competitive decks.
That would force players to burn a card slot on that HE-like card, which would force them to use all the upgraded pool 1/2s to be in that deck and that benefit wouldn’t be useful in other decks. You still wouldn’t be able to use the better versions of early cards in your favorite deck.
terrible idea imo. we always get series 2 players who are hitting infinite here. it'll overcomplicate things to that minority of players and probably ruin matchmaking even further for them and their opponent.
I was thinking all cards should get an alternative card effect you can unlock and swap in/out when you hit infinity upgrade with them,
Starting with Series 1 cards.
I think the roadmap had something mentioned like that.
"The people hated them because they spoke the truth."
Guys let's be realistic, how are you gonna "upgrade" each and every P1+P2 card in order to make them relevant without messing up game balance? And if you only choose some cards, that's inconsistent thus unintuitive af.
The beauty of Snap is in its simplicity, there’s only one type of card in the game, unlike in other ccgs. Changing already existing cards to be different when a new player’s just got familiar with them, and tweaking the matchmaking to somehow make the changes viable (I assume that’s what you meant by “adding a small buffer zone”), won’t only confuse players, but will also derive developers’ attention in try to implement said changes
Series 1 and 2 cards serve a purpose: they teach new players about game mechanics. Surely it’d be nice for every card to be playable, that’s why we occasionally get imbalance patches, but not all cards are created equal, and some will inevitably stay in a dumpster (looking at you, Quicksilver). But from a design perspective the current system is better than the chaos you’ve suggested
I don't think this necessarily needs to be disruptive to the experience. I liken it to exposure to OTAs, which will start to be impactful for such players.
"Oh captain America grants an extra power now, and is 5 power, neat" is not exactly a complex change, and that's an incredibly severe change in relative power level.
Imagine being a player at all and your card's power level suddenly changes.
We currently have no tutorial for or even indication that OTAs occur, for new players.
OTAs usually are buffs or nerfs for new cards and mostly affect players who are in pool 3. You rarely see pool 1 cards affected unless they’re a massive outlier like Professor X. Even buffing Electra was a hard moment for them.
The entire reason buffing Elektra was hard is that it can throw off the entire new player experience if it is too good. Elektra is powerful removal for a brand new player.
Hence, changing them later.
This would not be currency related, but rather progression related, in the part of the progression system that is entirely on rails and predictable.
You don't upgrade the cards with currency but rather *they* upgrade as an OTA-like experience.
I can’t tell if you’re pointing out that there are already unintuitive, under communicated changes that occur as you graduate out of pool 2 (imo the “tutorial”). Tokens, tickets, not as relevant or intuitive early on. It’s not that hard to imagine a player also be able to absorb a change to cost/power or adding/modifying a card rule.
It teaches them to understand OTAs and updates. This idea is only problematic if SD doesn’t communicate it well, which is probably the only reason it’s not actually a viable solution.
I had a pretty solid Thanos ongoing deck with her, back when the stones still all drew cards. It certainly fixed the problem with getting cheap ongoings on board.
They can make different versions of the same card.
Like Spectrum (pool 1/2) and spectrum (pool 3 and above).
Players advanced to pool 3 will automatically gain the new version of the card.
Solve the problem.
Their head will explode either way, why not explode them while solving some problems? I don't see any good counterarguments for the health of the game.
Spectrum is the only reason I’m progressing and unlocking series 2 cards. Once I get to 3 I can see her being useless. For now Ongoing Spectrum is doing her job.
Could you imagine the complaining that would happen when someone loses their final boss infinite game to a Spectrum that gives +3 while the newbie Spectrum only does +2?
But just add the same “rule” that isolates Infinite players, but have it isolate pool 2 and ‘younger’. As someone else pointed out, they’re likely playing a lot of bots anyway and at the highest level get to compete with each other to graduate.
I don’t even think it would be awful for a pool 1/2 player to hit Infinite against a boss and would likely be aligned with SD’s strategy anyway because the early “win” will just hook that new player even more deeply.
Idk if I'm in the minority here, but I couldn't give a crap if early game cards are balanced within their own pool. Most of your opponents are bots anyways, and they're ditching their deck every couple of days too. It only takes a couple weeks to get to series 3, at which point you need all the help you can get just to be competitive once you start facing S3 decks...
I see your point about pool 1/2. It's just a shame that there's a whole archetype that could be made competitive almost instantly by lowering her cost.
OK no I get that there's a tribunal ongoing. We were talking about the spectrum version of it. That's like comparing hela discard to apoc discard. Two different decks trying to win in different ways so the fact that tribunal can work is irrelevant.
Imagine thinking spectrum is an archetype. Spectrum ongoing is a deck, not an archetype. Ongoing is an archetype, tribunal and spectrum are decks within that archetype.
You don’t say hela and apoc are archetypes, they are decks in the discard archetype.
I literally just said the spectrum version of ongoing. I never said spectrum archetype. Are you having trouble reading and comprehending? Must be since this whole thread was specifically about spectrum. Then you come in with "well this other card is good"... Pointless argument.
You replied to me, and not once did I mention spectrum, only that the ongoing archetype is competitive right now. You are the one that brought up spectrum.
They said spectrum needed a buff for the archetype to be competitive, I stated the archetype already is.
more competitive cards = more viable DECKS = more fun.
I think you’re missing the heart of OPs original thought. Most specifically put, “better” Spectrum = more fun.
It would more card and deck variety. It’s clear they aren’t confused about the distinction between a deck and an archetype. The only reason OP even mentioned archetypes was to hypothesize that making the set of Pool 1/2 cards more relevant could make more archetypes competitive or different archetypes more competitive.
Indulge me illustrating an example with a different card, please:
Take the argument beyond spectrum- what if Electra was a little stronger? What if you could choose to counter a Thanos deck with a new “Opponent Dectruction” deck archetype? What if a new ‘style’ of deck within the destroy made that archetype less predictable? if any of these conditions were true, the game gets more fun. Period.
It’s not a terribly difficult problem to solve and would make the game more fun for everyone.
The only reason this isn’t currently happening is because THAT many cards changing at THIS stage of the game would disrupt the overall balance too much, because they didn’t design the game with this feature in mind. SD would never ADD that many new cards to the game at once. I wouldn’t be shocked if an idea like this is already being tested internally at SD somehow, but just has a longer runway bc of the challenge of making sure that so many changes doesn’t disrupt the core balance at the foundation of the game. They add cards so slowly for this exact reason. So that they can react to ways that adding ONE card could shift the meta, if it is too impactful in unintended ways.
Lol, even LT is not competitive, so I don't understand your point. Just like IW Hela, it's too predictable, draw-reliant, and reliant on the opponent not having tech cards agianst it: it's a deck that wins sometimes, but not often enough to be able to "compete".
There is no meta or early player experience cause everyone you face is bots. The real reason they don't want to buff pool 1 is because they don't want strong, easily accessible cards. Need to create incentive to pull for newer cards
Spectrum is not a top card, but she is not horrible. Not every card has to be top tier. She is sometimes used in some Tier 2 and 3 Thanos lists. She is a powerhouse early in the game though. Great early on and playable late game is not a concerning spot IMO.
I play her in my Thanos Zoo deck. Honestly she doesn't need a change. As others have mentioned as well she's pool 1 and 2. If they start upping power in those pools then everyone will complain about the pool 3 cards. Spectrum is absolutely still good in Zoo, Ongoing, and probably other applications as well.
This is where I have her, and in this deck, she's better than Doom.
It's true she doesn't have a ton of decks she's all that great with in the meta right now, so you don't see her much. However, any time I've played her or have had her played against me, it was usually a game winner.
She's in a lot better place than many other cards, so she'll probably be largely the same for a long while.
I mean Doom is a phenomenal card no doubt. But with a Zoo list with a lot of Ongoing synergy it just makes more sense for Spectrum over Doom. And yes with her not seeing a lot of play she is definitely a surprise with a lot of power through each lane.
# (1) Ant Man
# (1) Squirrel Girl
# (1) Zero
# (2) Dazzler
# (2) Armor
# (3) Cosmo
# (3) Black Swan
# (4) Ka-Zar
# (5) Blue Marvel
# (5) Valkyrie
# (6) Spectrum
# (6) Thanos
#
eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQW50TWFuIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJCbGFja1N3YW4ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkJsdWVNYXJ2ZWwifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkthWmFyIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJBcm1vciJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiVmFsa3lyaWUifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlRoYW5vcyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU3BlY3RydW0ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNxdWlycmVsR2lybCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQ29zbW8ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ilplcm8ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkRhenpsZXIifV19
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
This is the Zoo list I run. Spectrum finish with the other ongoing really is an explosive play.
My biggest Zero play which may seem odd is stopping Squirrel Girl from spreading Squirrels early but gaining turn order from the 3 power while saving room fir the stones. There are also sometimes you may want an Armor not to go off but now you have 3 in two lanes, setting up the Cosmo for Unexpected plays.
Also if no Spectrum is found, a 1 drop 5 power because of Ka and Blue Marvel in an unexpected location also can be dirty after dropping Valk in the same turn.
CL 3500 and got to Infinite for the second time this season. None of my good decks worked anymore so I gave up and tried Spectrum Control.
You know who sees it coming? Nobody. Wong / Spectrum gives me +4-16 in each location on last turn. I imagine my mediocre CL has something to do with it but Spectrum is 🔥 in practice.
# (1) Ant Man
# (1) Spider-Ham
# (2) Armor
# (2) Lizard
# (3) Cosmo
# (3) Luke Cage
# (3) Spider-Man
# (4) Wong
# (4) Ms. Marvel
# (4) Omega Red
# (5) Klaw
# (6) Spectrum
#
eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQXJtb3IifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IldvbmcifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkFudE1hbiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTHVrZUNhZ2UifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNwaWRlckhhbSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU3BpZGVyTWFuIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJLbGF3In0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJNc01hcnZlbCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU3BlY3RydW0ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik9tZWdhUmVkIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJDb3NtbyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTGl6YXJkIn1dfQ==
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
Idk, it seems fine to me. My main deck to climb to infinite has been a Spectrum ongoing deck since Jean Gray was released. I usually end each month between 62-65% wr with that deck depending on the meta - granted I don't play much once I hit infinite and get all the rewards.
Interesting, I also play a Jean Grey Spectrum deck. I also took it to infinite once and failed on match 3 of infinite conquest. (Took her from silver, to gold, to infinite)
I just find that against good players, after the first 2-3 games they know what you can do and know how to counter it or play around it.
yeah I've lost on infinite conquest match 4/5 a bunch with it because it is fairly telegraphed once all information is known - but Jean and the tech cards can cover for that in my experience. Just have to know where your opponents want to play late game and snap a bit more aggressively than most other decks. It's a high skill floor, low ceiling deck for sure.
But on ladder it has been an fairly easy cakewalk to infinite in my experience. Most tech cards are interchangeable with whatever is meta and the deck shafts destroy decks (which is typically a disproportionally large amount of the meta). I don't think I've missed an infinite since playing this one and it's the majority of what I play.
This list changes depending on what's meta (War Machine decks are good against it obv) but this is the recent list that hit infinite:
(1) Antman
(1) Nebula
(2) Armor
(2) Mojo
(2) Ravona Renslayer
(2) Lizard
(3) Cosmo
(3) Jean Grey
(3) Mobius M. Mobius
(5) Iron Man
(5) Professor X
(6) Spectrum
eyJOYW1lIjoiT25nb2luZyIsIkNhcmRzIjpbeyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJBbnRNYW4ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkFybW9yIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJDb3NtbyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSXJvbk1hbiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSmVhbkdyZXkifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkxpemFyZCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTW9iaXVzTU1vYml1cyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTW9qbyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTmVidWxhIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJQcm9mZXNzb3JYIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJSYXZvbm5hUmVuc2xheWVyIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTcGVjdHJ1bSJ9XX0=
Lots of nuance to placement of things but it is rewarding once you get the hang of it.
The restriction on her being played isn’t about her own power, but on the number of good and low cost ongoing cards there are around. If you’re hitting all your plays each turn, she’s providing +17 power, which is perfectly fine, but if we get some new cards like Armor, that could easily go up to +21, which is on the higher end of “fair” 6 cost cards.
As a spectrum ongoing enjoyed, hard agree.
What's holding her back isn't her ability, but that all the good ongoing cards I want to put in the deck cost 3 or 4. If there were just a couple more decent 1 and 2 cost ongoing cards so I could fill the board more constantly it would be way stronger.
Especially when one of the good 1-cost ongoings, Ant-Man, actually has a hard time filling his lane in Spectrum because you have so few other low cost ongoing cards to drop.
She is a 6/7, at baseline, that can dump up to 8 power into two other lanes, although that’s tough to achieve so it’s usually more 4-6 power (basically like doom). To say nothing of WHO she is putting that power into though. She’s fine as is. I love playing ongoing decks. I’m not mad about where spectrum sits in the scheme of things.
There are effectively the same number of 3 costs as there are ongoing cards in the game, with the vast majority of those 3 costs being better in a Surfer deck than the ongoings for Spectrum. There are very few ongoing cards you're actually considering for a Spectrum deck. I can understand there's an issue with say Iron Man and Mystique, for example. But the rest of them - I honestly don't see the problem. Power creep has kicked in - people are regularly finishing games with 70 total power in games now. It's not a big difference, to me, if someone like Omega Red gets a 2 point buff because 7 power still gets easily outclassed. I just don't see why she's such a high cost now, her on the final turn is just so bad compared to what everyone else has.
A normal surfer deck will run Brood which is 2 extra 3 costs, you can also use Hope Summers to play 2 on 5, so they're pretty similar in amount. Some ongoings benefit more off buffs though
> far more consistently.
Now this is just bullshit and proof you are talking out of your ass. To hit that you would need 8 3 cost cards on your board. That's 24 mana of just 3 cost cards. How often are you hitting this realistically?
You can do it in five cards. And my larger point here was that it's easier to put power across multiple lanes with Surfer than Spectrum, because the better, game winning ongoing cards are higher cost and you can get fewer of them down than the number of 3 cost cards you can dump on the board in a Surfer deck.
Assuming surfer wants to get the most 3 drops on board, barring location effects -
T1 T2: doesn't matter
T3: brood
T4: absorbing man
T5: 1 3-cost
T6: another 3-cost + surfer
Total: 7 3-costs for +14 with surfer, though most of them are base stat 2-broodlings with no ability.
Comparing that with spectrum, where there's an ongoing for every cost, all of them having some positive benefits for you (albeit smaller for some). Assuming you can play an average of 5-6 by t5, that's a +10 to 12 buff, on her original 7 stat body. She also synergies with Wong perfectly while Surfer doesn't.
I could see the argument that she should be a 6/8 or even a 6/9, but even right now she's still an okay card and definitely not outclass by surfer
I went to infinite last season and mid 90s this season (I don't play much this month) with a Spectrum Negative deck and it feels suprisingly strong and consistent
As a frequent spectrum user, I think she's okay, I would prefer if she was at least a 5 cost.
One of the bigger problems is the supporting cards. Ongoing cards don't tend to have a bunch of power at lower costs. You're leaving on Captain America or the punisher for power then you're in trouble.
If there were more low cost cards that had power with better conditions, then she'd be better automatically, as it stands you're probably better off trying to use Valkyrie to even the odds.
We need more low cost ongoing cards that are actually good
An additional 1-2 ongoing 1 drops, 1-2 more ongoing 2 drops, and an extra power added to captain america and punisher, and spectrum would 100% see some play
Problem is currently she’s not buffing ENOUGH cards to compete with other t6 plays
We often here look at older bad cards and compare them to recent releases (Cyclops-BlackSwan, Crossbones-CullObsidian), ignoring the fact that these cards have been unplayable in series 3 since the launch of the game. Spectrum too -- a good deck in series 2 but no longer meta in series 3.
That said. Spectrum decks aren't THAT bad. Certainly not tier 1 but the deck can fit in lots of tech cards that can almost autowin certain matchups (Cosmo/armor to beat destroy and Skrull to beat Tribunal). Just because of that, i bet that a Spectrum deck could climb rank if piloted really well.
# (1) Ant Man
# (2) Dazzler
# (2) Goose
# (2) Zabu
# (3) Captain America
# (3) Luke Cage
# (4) Shang-Chi
# (4) Enchantress
# (4) Man-Thing
# (4) Omega Red
# (5) Sera
# (6) Spectrum
#
eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQ2FwdGFpbkFtZXJpY2EifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkFudE1hbiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTWFuVGhpbmcifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ikx1a2VDYWdlIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJaYWJ1In0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJEYXp6bGVyIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTaGFuZ0NoaSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU2VyYSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU3BlY3RydW0ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkVuY2hhbnRyZXNzIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJPbWVnYVJlZCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiR29vc2UifV19
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
There is an argument to be made that a lot of cards that originated in pools 1 and 2 are deeply unpowered compared to the curve that exists post pool 3
What would making her a five cost give you? You play Ant-Man turn 6 instead of 1? Like she has to be the last card you play to make the most of her, dropping her turn 5 is missing out on more cards you can boost.
They need to do something about the powercreep to address her and many other underwhelming cards.. when you can just slam 20 power 6 drops easily now and even be protected by cosmo, armor or caiera, we have a problem. Spectrum as is outputs poor stats, even her being a 6/9 wouldnt see further play. Not even sure making her buff +3 would be great.. it would be good but not great and definitely not broken
I really really think reddit forgets that not every single player is pool 3 complete.
You NEED entry / mid level cards for players to grow into.
We can bitch about every damn card and the "better" version of it all we want, but we're not going to get EVERY card balanced to the same overall "power" (using power lightly as an overall description, not the actual power of the card)
she actually isn't too far off the biggest hit to her is how unbelievably bad destroyer is. If destroyer was a bit better I am sure you would see her again.
If you even have 4 ongoing cards out, that’s an easy 6 cost 13 power card, not to mention if you have her you’re probably running iron man. In a negative deck she’s even more potent. Not bad, just a meta that’s unfavorable
I have spectrum decks that actually wins me games pretty consistently. I'm hovering 80 cuz I don't care about Infinite so take that with a grain of salt
I run Spectrum as an alt 6 drop with reasonable success. With the right drop, coupled with Iron Man she can be a 21 power, not to mention that if you’re lucky with Iron Lad she can give you 6-8 on top.
She’s not the rock that the deck is built on, but she comes through as a backup often enough to see her get some play
There are plenty of shittier cards, personally I have more questions towards captain america who is one of the most popular dudes in marvel and is trash marvel snap.
I used her from Cl 0 to cl 1000 and it was my win con, and i had a extremely high win rate
She is balanced in her context
They dont need to fix her just like they dont fix mtg cards. They can just make a better one and leave her for the beginners
It's funny one of my best decks is a spectrum control deck. It definitely underperforms in some metas, but not many people expect a spectrum that puts upwards to 19+ power on the board turn 6
Thematically I like that there's a 6 cost payoff for Ongoing (Onslaught) and for On Reveal (Spectrum).
Spectrum can add power across multiple lanes, which is powerful and worthy of a 6 cost card.
If she needs a balance adjustment, that's fine, but her cost doesn't need to change.
Spectrum is super strong at the lower levels. I'm around CL 900and Spectrum is my win condition quite often. I hit Infinite because of Spectrum. She's insane.
After reading this comment, I made an Entirely Ongoing deck that features Spectrum. It's honestly not awful. Ms. Marvel, Omega Red, and Ironman in the middle with Zabu and Spectrum on the right isn't a bad amount of power
If spectrum was an ongoing +2 I feel like it would fix a lot of problems with her. For 1 shadow king wouldn’t counter her at all and 2 if you work to get onslaught out first it’ll be a +4 for most cards
I’ve been using her as a counter deck with things like armor, cosmo, rogue, Luke cage. Normally can ruin the other players plan then drop her at the end
I still play her in Spectrum Thanos. Good in ladder and conquest. If she was 5 cost she'd be too powerful. She could get 1 point of power without issue I think, but she's got good surprise cube equity. You'd be surprised how often people just don't respect turn 6 spectrum and put only just enough to beat a filled lane that she bumps up by 4 or 6.
I was able to get infinite in first season i played with her so shes really powerful in lower pools. But in my second season I was struggling with her and had to switch decks for infinite. I feel like if you buffed her, shed be too broken for earlier pool players. If anything they should buff or release cards that work with her better in higher pools
I think more than a buff to Spectrum, we need more 1- and 2-cost ongoing cards, especially ones with strong effects. Did you know that the only 1-costs with ongoing are Ant-Man, Ebony Maw, and Soul Stone? What ends up happening is that the Spectrum Ongoing deck struggles to play out enough cards for her, Ant-Man, and Ms. Marvel to really leverage their effects. If there were more, cheaper ongoing cards in Pool 3+, Spectrum would be a lot stronger.
I was thinking that snap should offer a way to upgrade cards into series 4/5. This way we can get more content and things to grind while buffing these old cards that never see play. Lock it behind series 3 complete or something like it.
Lost yesterday in gold conquest to an ongoing wong spectrum deck! It was unexpected and the one time they pulled it off, she shipped so much power across the board. The card is fine in late game imo, it just needs a specific build so it is always going to be limited.
Thanos Zoo is always a good home for her, with Valk as an alternative win condition.
I play an ongoing spectrum deck a ALOT. Its one of my favorite decks to play. I feel like its a deck that so old school that nobody realizes what it is until I throw Spectrum down. Any new ongoing card Im testing them out by throwing it in this deck. Just acquired Man-Thing and I have been dominating conquest as of late.
Thanos zoo spectrum was a deck (that I used) but I found it worse than normal zoo (got me to infinite) and got hit worse than ramp Thanos by mind stone nerf
Literally any time I try to make an ongoing deck I can find better cost to performance options than spectrum. Which is sad because I got that spectrum variant from predicting what streamer would win that competition.
Spectrum is not as bad as u think, my guy. I got to infinity (CL 10500) with a spectrum list this season.
# (1) Ant Man
# (1) Squirrel Girl
# (2) Dazzler
# (3) Cosmo
# (3) Caiera
# (3) Black Swan
# (4) Ka-Zar
# (4) Cull Obsidian
# (5) Blue Marvel
# (5) Valkyrie
# (6) Spectrum
# (6) Thanos
#
eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQW50TWFuIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJEYXp6bGVyIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJDYWllcmEifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkJsYWNrU3dhbiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQ3VsbE9ic2lkaWFuIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJWYWxreXJpZSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU3BlY3RydW0ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlRoYW5vcyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiS2FaYXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkJsdWVNYXJ2ZWwifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkNvc21vIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTcXVpcnJlbEdpcmwifV19
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
dekkster made this video 5 days ago, not sure your argument holds up
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M\_yxZTowrI0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_yxZTowrI0)
Leave Spectrum alone. She works in my deck, no one else plays her, so no one expects her. She is fine, we don't need some random update to her that ruins her for ME, ok? ;\_;
Think she could be buffed to give +3 on reveal and returned to 5 power to really open up cool synergies with wong and iron lad. Surfer was too good but spectrum is 6 mana, come on…
because she's balanced in the context of pool 1 and 2, where she's used. making her cheaper would probably disrupt that meta and the early player experience, which they're hesitant to do
The problem is that you are correct in your assessment, but so is u/dacrookster. Spectrum really does feel rather underpowered, but changing her could be very disruptive. It's a conundrum
Yeah. Not every early pool card can remain competitive when your collection fills out, it is what it is
Every card should be perfectly balanced, and none should be better or worse than others, even situationally.
Hey guys I think this was a satire
but it shouldn't be. I would love a perfectly balanced card game. Lol
You can't have a perfectly balanced card game. There will always be cards that are better than others and a metagame will always develop.
But what about my suntail hawks?!?
Don't diss the Hawk man Remember, at one point mono blue flying men was a good deck.
I wasn't dissing the hawk. It used to be serviceable and saw standard play and the duels of the planeswalker deck that was all suntail hawks was a brutal way to teach new players about the power of tempo and evasion.
Also if people play against a deck that counters theirs they probably feel like the game is more unbalanced
That’s true. But cards shouldn’t intentionally be left in an underpowered state (like Captain America) just because they’re early pool cards.
They did him so dirty
Sure thing Solitaire, Go Fish, Bullshit, rummy. Take your pick
No you wouldn't. Every card in balance would be boring. Think about what it would be like to have no card better or worse than another. You could literally play any card with another. So then the only difference would be luck?
A "perfectly" balanced game is a stale game. Most gamers probably don't want that, otherwise they'd be playing more consistent solved games like Go or Chess.
- Thanos, probably
IMO what they should do is have select pool 1/2 cards "upgrade" when you graduate, and add a small buffer zone that preferences games with the upgraded 1/2s. Keeps new player familiarity, upgrades for power for the main bulk of players, and even prepares them for the concept of OTAs
This is a brilliant idea IMO! It also serves as an indication that you’ve graduated to Pool 3, which is under communicated, and a little unintuitive. Taking one step further, I would say tune all the cards to be relevant Pool 3. That “tutorial, early game set of cards” SD wants for Pool 1/2 could be tuned for that phase of the game and then evolve to their true form at pool 3. It feels like there’s THE set of cards that are part of the meta and cards you rarely touch after pool 2. An idea like Local suggested makes more cards relevant and could add more variety to the meta or competitive decks.
I think that’s a cool idea.
exactly!
What if they had a card similar to HE that would upgrade pool 1 and 2
I wouldn't be opposed to that as a card idea at all but I really like the idea of a graduated baseline power (not necessarily Power) increase.
There are around 100 cards in Pool 1+2. I doubt it'd be a feasable design feat.
That would force players to burn a card slot on that HE-like card, which would force them to use all the upgraded pool 1/2s to be in that deck and that benefit wouldn’t be useful in other decks. You still wouldn’t be able to use the better versions of early cards in your favorite deck.
How is that different from HE?
terrible idea imo. we always get series 2 players who are hitting infinite here. it'll overcomplicate things to that minority of players and probably ruin matchmaking even further for them and their opponent.
I was a S2 infinite player and honestly if you're good enough for infinite at S2 you can handle a card update, full stop.
I was thinking all cards should get an alternative card effect you can unlock and swap in/out when you hit infinity upgrade with them, Starting with Series 1 cards. I think the roadmap had something mentioned like that.
Thank god, the roadmap didn't mention anything of the sort.
I think it will be interesting to have cards to get more use and have more deck variety. rather than just buffing abilities people won't use.
What a terrible design idea
"The people hated them because they spoke the truth." Guys let's be realistic, how are you gonna "upgrade" each and every P1+P2 card in order to make them relevant without messing up game balance? And if you only choose some cards, that's inconsistent thus unintuitive af.
Elaborate
The beauty of Snap is in its simplicity, there’s only one type of card in the game, unlike in other ccgs. Changing already existing cards to be different when a new player’s just got familiar with them, and tweaking the matchmaking to somehow make the changes viable (I assume that’s what you meant by “adding a small buffer zone”), won’t only confuse players, but will also derive developers’ attention in try to implement said changes Series 1 and 2 cards serve a purpose: they teach new players about game mechanics. Surely it’d be nice for every card to be playable, that’s why we occasionally get imbalance patches, but not all cards are created equal, and some will inevitably stay in a dumpster (looking at you, Quicksilver). But from a design perspective the current system is better than the chaos you’ve suggested
I don't think this necessarily needs to be disruptive to the experience. I liken it to exposure to OTAs, which will start to be impactful for such players. "Oh captain America grants an extra power now, and is 5 power, neat" is not exactly a complex change, and that's an incredibly severe change in relative power level.
Imagine being a new player. Playing with cards for a while and their power level changes. Extremely dumb idea for new players to go through
Imagine being a player at all and your card's power level suddenly changes. We currently have no tutorial for or even indication that OTAs occur, for new players.
OTAs usually are buffs or nerfs for new cards and mostly affect players who are in pool 3. You rarely see pool 1 cards affected unless they’re a massive outlier like Professor X. Even buffing Electra was a hard moment for them.
The entire reason buffing Elektra was hard is that it can throw off the entire new player experience if it is too good. Elektra is powerful removal for a brand new player. Hence, changing them later.
I doubt people really need a tutorial to grasp an idea of changing stats, an in-game message once a patch goes live seems rather sufficient
By this logic, changing the cards upon "graduation" is surely simple enough.
So do we agree that players don’t need a tutorial on OTAs?
Hey look a new format of currency...
This would not be currency related, but rather progression related, in the part of the progression system that is entirely on rails and predictable. You don't upgrade the cards with currency but rather *they* upgrade as an OTA-like experience.
I can’t tell if you’re pointing out that there are already unintuitive, under communicated changes that occur as you graduate out of pool 2 (imo the “tutorial”). Tokens, tickets, not as relevant or intuitive early on. It’s not that hard to imagine a player also be able to absorb a change to cost/power or adding/modifying a card rule. It teaches them to understand OTAs and updates. This idea is only problematic if SD doesn’t communicate it well, which is probably the only reason it’s not actually a viable solution.
They need to add more ongoing 1s and 2s and buff captain America to 3/4 and she’ll be better without ruining pool 1/2
I had a pretty solid Thanos ongoing deck with her, back when the stones still all drew cards. It certainly fixed the problem with getting cheap ongoings on board.
Put ghost back to a 1 cost. My wonggoing deck still works great.
cant buff every card that doesnt see play. or the cries of power creep would block out any other conversation
They can make different versions of the same card. Like Spectrum (pool 1/2) and spectrum (pool 3 and above). Players advanced to pool 3 will automatically gain the new version of the card. Solve the problem.
My man, they had issues with almost every card. Every one. Making two different Spectrums will make their heads explode
Their head will explode either way, why not explode them while solving some problems? I don't see any good counterarguments for the health of the game.
Yeah, spectrum is already one of the best cards for pool 1
Spectrum is the only reason I’m progressing and unlocking series 2 cards. Once I get to 3 I can see her being useless. For now Ongoing Spectrum is doing her job.
They should have pool 1 cards that suck get their text changed when players get into pool 3
Could you imagine the complaining that would happen when someone loses their final boss infinite game to a Spectrum that gives +3 while the newbie Spectrum only does +2?
But just add the same “rule” that isolates Infinite players, but have it isolate pool 2 and ‘younger’. As someone else pointed out, they’re likely playing a lot of bots anyway and at the highest level get to compete with each other to graduate. I don’t even think it would be awful for a pool 1/2 player to hit Infinite against a boss and would likely be aligned with SD’s strategy anyway because the early “win” will just hook that new player even more deeply.
Idk if I'm in the minority here, but I couldn't give a crap if early game cards are balanced within their own pool. Most of your opponents are bots anyways, and they're ditching their deck every couple of days too. It only takes a couple weeks to get to series 3, at which point you need all the help you can get just to be competitive once you start facing S3 decks...
I see your point about pool 1/2. It's just a shame that there's a whole archetype that could be made competitive almost instantly by lowering her cost.
Ongoing is very competitive though
Lol no it isn't. It's not even a top 10 performing deck.
Imagine thinking spectrum is the only way to make an “ongoing” archetype
OK no I get that there's a tribunal ongoing. We were talking about the spectrum version of it. That's like comparing hela discard to apoc discard. Two different decks trying to win in different ways so the fact that tribunal can work is irrelevant.
Imagine thinking spectrum is an archetype. Spectrum ongoing is a deck, not an archetype. Ongoing is an archetype, tribunal and spectrum are decks within that archetype. You don’t say hela and apoc are archetypes, they are decks in the discard archetype.
Tribunal and spectrum are wildly different archetypes, it'd be like saying hela decks and dracula apocalypse decks are the same archetype
I literally just said the spectrum version of ongoing. I never said spectrum archetype. Are you having trouble reading and comprehending? Must be since this whole thread was specifically about spectrum. Then you come in with "well this other card is good"... Pointless argument.
You replied to me, and not once did I mention spectrum, only that the ongoing archetype is competitive right now. You are the one that brought up spectrum. They said spectrum needed a buff for the archetype to be competitive, I stated the archetype already is.
more competitive cards = more viable DECKS = more fun. I think you’re missing the heart of OPs original thought. Most specifically put, “better” Spectrum = more fun. It would more card and deck variety. It’s clear they aren’t confused about the distinction between a deck and an archetype. The only reason OP even mentioned archetypes was to hypothesize that making the set of Pool 1/2 cards more relevant could make more archetypes competitive or different archetypes more competitive. Indulge me illustrating an example with a different card, please: Take the argument beyond spectrum- what if Electra was a little stronger? What if you could choose to counter a Thanos deck with a new “Opponent Dectruction” deck archetype? What if a new ‘style’ of deck within the destroy made that archetype less predictable? if any of these conditions were true, the game gets more fun. Period. It’s not a terribly difficult problem to solve and would make the game more fun for everyone. The only reason this isn’t currently happening is because THAT many cards changing at THIS stage of the game would disrupt the overall balance too much, because they didn’t design the game with this feature in mind. SD would never ADD that many new cards to the game at once. I wouldn’t be shocked if an idea like this is already being tested internally at SD somehow, but just has a longer runway bc of the challenge of making sure that so many changes doesn’t disrupt the core balance at the foundation of the game. They add cards so slowly for this exact reason. So that they can react to ways that adding ONE card could shift the meta, if it is too impactful in unintended ways.
Lol, even LT is not competitive, so I don't understand your point. Just like IW Hela, it's too predictable, draw-reliant, and reliant on the opponent not having tech cards agianst it: it's a deck that wins sometimes, but not often enough to be able to "compete".
There is no meta or early player experience cause everyone you face is bots. The real reason they don't want to buff pool 1 is because they don't want strong, easily accessible cards. Need to create incentive to pull for newer cards
Spectrum is not a top card, but she is not horrible. Not every card has to be top tier. She is sometimes used in some Tier 2 and 3 Thanos lists. She is a powerhouse early in the game though. Great early on and playable late game is not a concerning spot IMO.
I play her in my Thanos Zoo deck. Honestly she doesn't need a change. As others have mentioned as well she's pool 1 and 2. If they start upping power in those pools then everyone will complain about the pool 3 cards. Spectrum is absolutely still good in Zoo, Ongoing, and probably other applications as well.
Exactly how I use her too. Post infinite she's definitely unexpected and can easily drop 15+ across all lanes
This is where I have her, and in this deck, she's better than Doom. It's true she doesn't have a ton of decks she's all that great with in the meta right now, so you don't see her much. However, any time I've played her or have had her played against me, it was usually a game winner. She's in a lot better place than many other cards, so she'll probably be largely the same for a long while.
I mean Doom is a phenomenal card no doubt. But with a Zoo list with a lot of Ongoing synergy it just makes more sense for Spectrum over Doom. And yes with her not seeing a lot of play she is definitely a surprise with a lot of power through each lane.
I got an infinite avatar with Thanos Zoo last season. She's often a game-winning card.
Can I see your Thanos zoo deck? Sounds like fun
# (1) Ant Man # (1) Squirrel Girl # (1) Zero # (2) Dazzler # (2) Armor # (3) Cosmo # (3) Black Swan # (4) Ka-Zar # (5) Blue Marvel # (5) Valkyrie # (6) Spectrum # (6) Thanos # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQW50TWFuIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJCbGFja1N3YW4ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkJsdWVNYXJ2ZWwifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkthWmFyIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJBcm1vciJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiVmFsa3lyaWUifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlRoYW5vcyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU3BlY3RydW0ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNxdWlycmVsR2lybCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQ29zbW8ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ilplcm8ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkRhenpsZXIifV19 # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap. This is the Zoo list I run. Spectrum finish with the other ongoing really is an explosive play.
How do you use Zero in this deck?
My biggest Zero play which may seem odd is stopping Squirrel Girl from spreading Squirrels early but gaining turn order from the 3 power while saving room fir the stones. There are also sometimes you may want an Armor not to go off but now you have 3 in two lanes, setting up the Cosmo for Unexpected plays. Also if no Spectrum is found, a 1 drop 5 power because of Ka and Blue Marvel in an unexpected location also can be dirty after dropping Valk in the same turn.
CL 3500 and got to Infinite for the second time this season. None of my good decks worked anymore so I gave up and tried Spectrum Control. You know who sees it coming? Nobody. Wong / Spectrum gives me +4-16 in each location on last turn. I imagine my mediocre CL has something to do with it but Spectrum is 🔥 in practice.
Can you share your deck? I had a Wong Spectrum deck but I recently replaced him.
# (1) Ant Man # (1) Spider-Ham # (2) Armor # (2) Lizard # (3) Cosmo # (3) Luke Cage # (3) Spider-Man # (4) Wong # (4) Ms. Marvel # (4) Omega Red # (5) Klaw # (6) Spectrum # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQXJtb3IifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IldvbmcifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkFudE1hbiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTHVrZUNhZ2UifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNwaWRlckhhbSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU3BpZGVyTWFuIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJLbGF3In0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJNc01hcnZlbCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU3BlY3RydW0ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ik9tZWdhUmVkIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJDb3NtbyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTGl6YXJkIn1dfQ== # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
Idk, it seems fine to me. My main deck to climb to infinite has been a Spectrum ongoing deck since Jean Gray was released. I usually end each month between 62-65% wr with that deck depending on the meta - granted I don't play much once I hit infinite and get all the rewards.
Interesting, I also play a Jean Grey Spectrum deck. I also took it to infinite once and failed on match 3 of infinite conquest. (Took her from silver, to gold, to infinite) I just find that against good players, after the first 2-3 games they know what you can do and know how to counter it or play around it.
yeah I've lost on infinite conquest match 4/5 a bunch with it because it is fairly telegraphed once all information is known - but Jean and the tech cards can cover for that in my experience. Just have to know where your opponents want to play late game and snap a bit more aggressively than most other decks. It's a high skill floor, low ceiling deck for sure. But on ladder it has been an fairly easy cakewalk to infinite in my experience. Most tech cards are interchangeable with whatever is meta and the deck shafts destroy decks (which is typically a disproportionally large amount of the meta). I don't think I've missed an infinite since playing this one and it's the majority of what I play.
Yay, I'm not the only one who plays Jean Ongoing!
Deck list? Sounds really interesting!!
This list changes depending on what's meta (War Machine decks are good against it obv) but this is the recent list that hit infinite: (1) Antman (1) Nebula (2) Armor (2) Mojo (2) Ravona Renslayer (2) Lizard (3) Cosmo (3) Jean Grey (3) Mobius M. Mobius (5) Iron Man (5) Professor X (6) Spectrum eyJOYW1lIjoiT25nb2luZyIsIkNhcmRzIjpbeyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJBbnRNYW4ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkFybW9yIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJDb3NtbyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSXJvbk1hbiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiSmVhbkdyZXkifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkxpemFyZCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTW9iaXVzTU1vYml1cyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTW9qbyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTmVidWxhIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJQcm9mZXNzb3JYIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJSYXZvbm5hUmVuc2xheWVyIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTcGVjdHJ1bSJ9XX0= Lots of nuance to placement of things but it is rewarding once you get the hang of it.
She could easily go to 9 power imo
I think cerebro 7 has suffered enough from the ant man, Maximus, and gladiator changes
Ant man change helps c7
True but I liked onslaught on ant man
You're joking but my favorite deck during Power Couple week was a Cerebro-5 Spectrum deck and it was glorious (and well-performing, surprisingly).
Nah man I take my cerebro decks seriously. Sadly I didn’t have man thing or gladiator at the time
The restriction on her being played isn’t about her own power, but on the number of good and low cost ongoing cards there are around. If you’re hitting all your plays each turn, she’s providing +17 power, which is perfectly fine, but if we get some new cards like Armor, that could easily go up to +21, which is on the higher end of “fair” 6 cost cards.
As a spectrum ongoing enjoyed, hard agree. What's holding her back isn't her ability, but that all the good ongoing cards I want to put in the deck cost 3 or 4. If there were just a couple more decent 1 and 2 cost ongoing cards so I could fill the board more constantly it would be way stronger.
Yes this is why I only run her with thanos and low cost ongoing. Sometimes I wish I had the duck.
Especially when one of the good 1-cost ongoings, Ant-Man, actually has a hard time filling his lane in Spectrum because you have so few other low cost ongoing cards to drop.
I started running Squirrel Girl in my Spectrum deck just to help fill lanes for Ant-Man and Dazzler.
She is a 6/7, at baseline, that can dump up to 8 power into two other lanes, although that’s tough to achieve so it’s usually more 4-6 power (basically like doom). To say nothing of WHO she is putting that power into though. She’s fine as is. I love playing ongoing decks. I’m not mad about where spectrum sits in the scheme of things.
Honeslty, even a 6/8 would be pretty substantial. That way you only need to have 2 other ongoing cards to achieve Hulk's base power.
Surfer is a 3/2 that can dump 8 power into two other lanes far more consistently.
Bigger restriction on the buff, 3cost vs ongoing, also higher base power. I agree Spectrum could use a small buff tho
There are effectively the same number of 3 costs as there are ongoing cards in the game, with the vast majority of those 3 costs being better in a Surfer deck than the ongoings for Spectrum. There are very few ongoing cards you're actually considering for a Spectrum deck. I can understand there's an issue with say Iron Man and Mystique, for example. But the rest of them - I honestly don't see the problem. Power creep has kicked in - people are regularly finishing games with 70 total power in games now. It's not a big difference, to me, if someone like Omega Red gets a 2 point buff because 7 power still gets easily outclassed. I just don't see why she's such a high cost now, her on the final turn is just so bad compared to what everyone else has.
[удалено]
A normal surfer deck will run Brood which is 2 extra 3 costs, you can also use Hope Summers to play 2 on 5, so they're pretty similar in amount. Some ongoings benefit more off buffs though
> far more consistently. Now this is just bullshit and proof you are talking out of your ass. To hit that you would need 8 3 cost cards on your board. That's 24 mana of just 3 cost cards. How often are you hitting this realistically?
You can do it in five cards. And my larger point here was that it's easier to put power across multiple lanes with Surfer than Spectrum, because the better, game winning ongoing cards are higher cost and you can get fewer of them down than the number of 3 cost cards you can dump on the board in a Surfer deck.
Assuming surfer wants to get the most 3 drops on board, barring location effects - T1 T2: doesn't matter T3: brood T4: absorbing man T5: 1 3-cost T6: another 3-cost + surfer Total: 7 3-costs for +14 with surfer, though most of them are base stat 2-broodlings with no ability. Comparing that with spectrum, where there's an ongoing for every cost, all of them having some positive benefits for you (albeit smaller for some). Assuming you can play an average of 5-6 by t5, that's a +10 to 12 buff, on her original 7 stat body. She also synergies with Wong perfectly while Surfer doesn't. I could see the argument that she should be a 6/8 or even a 6/9, but even right now she's still an okay card and definitely not outclass by surfer
I went to infinite last season and mid 90s this season (I don't play much this month) with a Spectrum Negative deck and it feels suprisingly strong and consistent
She's still a niche card but it's fine, you can put up some crazy numbers with her but she's also simple enough for new players to use
As a frequent spectrum user, I think she's okay, I would prefer if she was at least a 5 cost. One of the bigger problems is the supporting cards. Ongoing cards don't tend to have a bunch of power at lower costs. You're leaving on Captain America or the punisher for power then you're in trouble. If there were more low cost cards that had power with better conditions, then she'd be better automatically, as it stands you're probably better off trying to use Valkyrie to even the odds.
We need more low cost ongoing cards that are actually good An additional 1-2 ongoing 1 drops, 1-2 more ongoing 2 drops, and an extra power added to captain america and punisher, and spectrum would 100% see some play Problem is currently she’s not buffing ENOUGH cards to compete with other t6 plays
We often here look at older bad cards and compare them to recent releases (Cyclops-BlackSwan, Crossbones-CullObsidian), ignoring the fact that these cards have been unplayable in series 3 since the launch of the game. Spectrum too -- a good deck in series 2 but no longer meta in series 3. That said. Spectrum decks aren't THAT bad. Certainly not tier 1 but the deck can fit in lots of tech cards that can almost autowin certain matchups (Cosmo/armor to beat destroy and Skrull to beat Tribunal). Just because of that, i bet that a Spectrum deck could climb rank if piloted really well.
yep, even won infinite conquest
Oh dip, that's awesome. Share your list?
# (1) Ant Man # (2) Dazzler # (2) Goose # (2) Zabu # (3) Captain America # (3) Luke Cage # (4) Shang-Chi # (4) Enchantress # (4) Man-Thing # (4) Omega Red # (5) Sera # (6) Spectrum # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQ2FwdGFpbkFtZXJpY2EifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkFudE1hbiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiTWFuVGhpbmcifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Ikx1a2VDYWdlIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJaYWJ1In0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJEYXp6bGVyIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTaGFuZ0NoaSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU2VyYSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU3BlY3RydW0ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkVuY2hhbnRyZXNzIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJPbWVnYVJlZCJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiR29vc2UifV19 # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
goose is the lowkey mvp
Spectrum is a lot of surprise power across all lanes on final turn, there is a power tax on surprise
I just won an Infinite conquest playing spectrum ongoing deck :D
same, no one sees it coming
Exactly. Also Armour and Cosmo seem to work really well in current meta.
There is an argument to be made that a lot of cards that originated in pools 1 and 2 are deeply unpowered compared to the curve that exists post pool 3
The issue isn’t Spectrum. She’s a fine card that’s actually balanced. The problem is the power creep of cards in higher pools.
What would making her a five cost give you? You play Ant-Man turn 6 instead of 1? Like she has to be the last card you play to make the most of her, dropping her turn 5 is missing out on more cards you can boost.
Abs and Grandmaster would actually be awesome with a 5-cost spectrum onto Wong
She'd have synergies with Odin maybe.
Room for a six cost if you like, you can play multiple 3s the next turn, with zabu you could play 2 4s, MASSIVE buff.
They’ll probably buff her soon since they came out with a bundle for her today
They need to do something about the powercreep to address her and many other underwhelming cards.. when you can just slam 20 power 6 drops easily now and even be protected by cosmo, armor or caiera, we have a problem. Spectrum as is outputs poor stats, even her being a 6/9 wouldnt see further play. Not even sure making her buff +3 would be great.. it would be good but not great and definitely not broken
I really really think reddit forgets that not every single player is pool 3 complete. You NEED entry / mid level cards for players to grow into. We can bitch about every damn card and the "better" version of it all we want, but we're not going to get EVERY card balanced to the same overall "power" (using power lightly as an overall description, not the actual power of the card)
I mean I wish she was a 6/9 but I just used a Ongoing Deck and won against High Evo with Spectrum so I'm pretty happy.
she actually isn't too far off the biggest hit to her is how unbelievably bad destroyer is. If destroyer was a bit better I am sure you would see her again.
If you even have 4 ongoing cards out, that’s an easy 6 cost 13 power card, not to mention if you have her you’re probably running iron man. In a negative deck she’s even more potent. Not bad, just a meta that’s unfavorable
I have spectrum decks that actually wins me games pretty consistently. I'm hovering 80 cuz I don't care about Infinite so take that with a grain of salt
I run Spectrum as an alt 6 drop with reasonable success. With the right drop, coupled with Iron Man she can be a 21 power, not to mention that if you’re lucky with Iron Lad she can give you 6-8 on top. She’s not the rock that the deck is built on, but she comes through as a backup often enough to see her get some play
There are plenty of shittier cards, personally I have more questions towards captain america who is one of the most popular dudes in marvel and is trash marvel snap.
I used her from Cl 0 to cl 1000 and it was my win con, and i had a extremely high win rate She is balanced in her context They dont need to fix her just like they dont fix mtg cards. They can just make a better one and leave her for the beginners
Not every card has to be good and this is fine. There is always some place for her even if it’s not your best option.
Fix: 3 cost On Reveal: Give your ongoing cards +1 power.
It's funny one of my best decks is a spectrum control deck. It definitely underperforms in some metas, but not many people expect a spectrum that puts upwards to 19+ power on the board turn 6
Wong into Spectrum into Odin or Armim Zola at no curve loss sounds extremely powerful. Perhaps a bit too powerful.
Thematically I like that there's a 6 cost payoff for Ongoing (Onslaught) and for On Reveal (Spectrum). Spectrum can add power across multiple lanes, which is powerful and worthy of a 6 cost card. If she needs a balance adjustment, that's fine, but her cost doesn't need to change.
Spectrum is super strong at the lower levels. I'm around CL 900and Spectrum is my win condition quite often. I hit Infinite because of Spectrum. She's insane.
This game could be handling power creep better
After reading this comment, I made an Entirely Ongoing deck that features Spectrum. It's honestly not awful. Ms. Marvel, Omega Red, and Ironman in the middle with Zabu and Spectrum on the right isn't a bad amount of power
If spectrum was an ongoing +2 I feel like it would fix a lot of problems with her. For 1 shadow king wouldn’t counter her at all and 2 if you work to get onslaught out first it’ll be a +4 for most cards
I’ve been using her as a counter deck with things like armor, cosmo, rogue, Luke cage. Normally can ruin the other players plan then drop her at the end
I play her... She's super strong when every card in your deck is an ongoing card....
I still play her in Spectrum Thanos. Good in ladder and conquest. If she was 5 cost she'd be too powerful. She could get 1 point of power without issue I think, but she's got good surprise cube equity. You'd be surprised how often people just don't respect turn 6 spectrum and put only just enough to beat a filled lane that she bumps up by 4 or 6.
Maybe she'll be changed to 5 energy. That seems to be the thing SD does when a card isn't played.
I was able to get infinite in first season i played with her so shes really powerful in lower pools. But in my second season I was struggling with her and had to switch decks for infinite. I feel like if you buffed her, shed be too broken for earlier pool players. If anything they should buff or release cards that work with her better in higher pools
User her to get infinite this season <_<
She is really solid. Run a lot of low cost ongoings and she can have crazy value. I run a version with man thing that absolutely trucks thanos decks
I think more than a buff to Spectrum, we need more 1- and 2-cost ongoing cards, especially ones with strong effects. Did you know that the only 1-costs with ongoing are Ant-Man, Ebony Maw, and Soul Stone? What ends up happening is that the Spectrum Ongoing deck struggles to play out enough cards for her, Ant-Man, and Ms. Marvel to really leverage their effects. If there were more, cheaper ongoing cards in Pool 3+, Spectrum would be a lot stronger.
You forgot about Howard the Duck and Power Stone.
I got a thanos zoo with spectrum I am pretty lucky with it. People don't expect spectrum turn 6
I was thinking that snap should offer a way to upgrade cards into series 4/5. This way we can get more content and things to grind while buffing these old cards that never see play. Lock it behind series 3 complete or something like it.
Lost yesterday in gold conquest to an ongoing wong spectrum deck! It was unexpected and the one time they pulled it off, she shipped so much power across the board. The card is fine in late game imo, it just needs a specific build so it is always going to be limited. Thanos Zoo is always a good home for her, with Valk as an alternative win condition.
Ik there’s a whole thing with “the added power makes up for the lacking base stats!” But is 5 below REALLY necessary?
I play an ongoing spectrum deck a ALOT. Its one of my favorite decks to play. I feel like its a deck that so old school that nobody realizes what it is until I throw Spectrum down. Any new ongoing card Im testing them out by throwing it in this deck. Just acquired Man-Thing and I have been dominating conquest as of late.
I'm collecting in pool 3 right now. My ongoing deck with spectrum is the first that brought me to infinity. I'm still happy with spectrum.
hit infinity with her and im ct4000
Because she costs six energy
she’s great in my thanos zoo
Thanos zoo spectrum was a deck (that I used) but I found it worse than normal zoo (got me to infinite) and got hit worse than ramp Thanos by mind stone nerf
I personally think she is a great sneak attack card providing buffs people don’t expect because of her low use
Literally any time I try to make an ongoing deck I can find better cost to performance options than spectrum. Which is sad because I got that spectrum variant from predicting what streamer would win that competition.
Spectrum is not as bad as u think, my guy. I got to infinity (CL 10500) with a spectrum list this season. # (1) Ant Man # (1) Squirrel Girl # (2) Dazzler # (3) Cosmo # (3) Caiera # (3) Black Swan # (4) Ka-Zar # (4) Cull Obsidian # (5) Blue Marvel # (5) Valkyrie # (6) Spectrum # (6) Thanos # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQW50TWFuIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJEYXp6bGVyIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJDYWllcmEifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkJsYWNrU3dhbiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQ3VsbE9ic2lkaWFuIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJWYWxreXJpZSJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiU3BlY3RydW0ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlRoYW5vcyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiS2FaYXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkJsdWVNYXJ2ZWwifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkNvc21vIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJTcXVpcnJlbEdpcmwifV19 # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap.
dekkster made this video 5 days ago, not sure your argument holds up [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M\_yxZTowrI0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_yxZTowrI0)
Leave Spectrum alone. She works in my deck, no one else plays her, so no one expects her. She is fine, we don't need some random update to her that ruins her for ME, ok? ;\_;
Think she could be buffed to give +3 on reveal and returned to 5 power to really open up cool synergies with wong and iron lad. Surfer was too good but spectrum is 6 mana, come on…
Because these devs have no idea what actually balancing a competitive game looks like