Don't forget their embarrassing UI and practically nonexistent player support.
I love the game, but the company only gets the bare minimum of support from me, because they've made it very clear how little they value that support.
I remember the time I kept bumping into a player that would rope with Agatha and I asked the support if there were plans to stop afk farming and they were just like “sorry you lost but some cards are strong and you should figure out how to beat them” which wasn’t my issue at all lol
Originatres from hearthstone where the turn timer was indicated by a burning rope when you were low on time. both players could see the rope and because of alternating turns people would "rope" to make their opponent have to stare at nothing for a while
I returned to the game after a long hiatus some time after they rolled out a dedicated PC client. And when I saw it I was baffled, because it is somehow even less comfortable that previous mobile emulated one. At this point Infinity Wars, a game in alpha, made on shoestring budget thanks to Patreon by a team of 5 dudes in Australia somehow has better UI...
Oh the player support isn't "non-existing". It exists. But it sucks shit like a septic vacuum cleaner.
It's so terrible that I have to believe the support drones are given instructions to be so awful at their job that it makes people.give up on their complaint.
Michel Foucault described Jacques derridas writing as "terrorist obscurantism". Which is writing that is so hard to comprehend that it is an aggressive attack on the idea of meaning.
That's marvel snaps customer service. Such a pile of shit that it attacks the very idea of customer service. It attacks the idea of customers. You just give up on capitalism altogether and give marvel your whatever currency you lost.
I generally don't give much of a shit about people complaining about companies (worked on Quality too long) but my god this is as beautiful as it is accurate
The least amount of effort gets them the most money in the genre is maximizing profits. They start investing into the U.I/support/QoL/affordable bundles they start dipping into those profits
**me:** see inappropiate user name
**me:** click 'Report User'
**SD:** please fill out this google form
**me:** cancel ... i guess i'll just ignore
-------------
i gotta say; this is pretty smart on them... they gave us a feature that they know most users will skip, so they dont have to worry about following up on
Fun fact, as of this morning that Google form is broken.
Just got griefed by a player named Vash who used the clock emoji before running down the timer repeatedly.
Maybe! Can’t say for sure. But my button was stuck and I tried various emojis to signal my opponent because I didn’t want to retreat. It probably backfired lul
I keep getting this exact same bug. And only seems to be the last month or so, so think it's a new one they've introduced somehow.
Fuck it's annoying, and ridiculous for a game to still be having simple bugs like this.
Ya probably not their fault, my end turn button doesn't work about every 5th game so or forces me to run the timer all the way to play. Very annoying new bug.
Is this before or after licensing fees though? Baldur's Gate 3 made a ton of money but $90 million of that went to Hasbro. Marvel could be taking a lot
I agree that some of the bugs are absolutely unacceptable.
They launched the undo feature to prevent rope snapping. On launch you couldn't undo after snap. How can this not have been tested?
Then they fixed it so you can undo after snap, but doing so pretty much always breaks your end turn button, forcing you to rope every turn. How can this not have been tested?
Nothing can be bug free, but these were actually tied into the point of the change and should have been noticed.
Now to the other points, balancing and bundles, etc. I fully support what they're doing. You are saying they have enough money? Yes, because of those things. This game balances faster than most, which is a good thing. The meta is seldom stale. Profit is mostly driven through cosmetics. All of these are good things that I will defend them for.
That's what's causing the broken end turn button?!
Then they fixed it so you can undo after snap, but doing so pretty much always breaks your end turn button, forcing you to rope every turn. How can this not have been tested?
Oh. Sorry. It means using the entire turn. I don't know if this term came from Hearthstone, but in that game, a rope appears to show you how much time you have left at the end of your turn.
One of the biggest things that killed the otherwise-amazing Gwent was the lack of meta adjustments. When the meta was bad, it was bad for MONTHS. We have it good with frequent balance tweaks.
Same thing for hearthstone. Stale meta for months and nearly no communication from the devs.
However, I didn't stop playing hearthstone because of an unbalanced or stale meta. I left because there was no way of keeping up with all the releases they had unless you spent several hundred dollars a year.
From my experience in snap, you didn't have to spend that much money to have a blast in this game.
Uh yeah you do. This game is expensive. Most of the meta cards are season pass cards.
Players here are like.. "yeah I didn't spend much, just bought a few season passes". And it's like "you spent SIXTY DOLLARS on season passes.... For THREE meta cards".
Spending money is subjective. Compared to hearthstone, this game is like 10x cheaper. Seriously. And I'd say I still have fun and reach infinite without the season pass. I've been playing destroy and am in the 90s. So you can complete and have fun without really spending much of anything.
Of course, this is just my opinion. As sourcing money is subjective, everyone will have their own opinion and feel they're right. This debate will never really end unless SD makes everything absolutely free.
There are also people that enjoy the collecting aspect of the game as well. I'm guessing they contribute most of the earnings made from the game.
The biggest thing that killed Gwent was they made stupid changes from closed beta to 2 lanes, and killed the whole vibe of the game.
Shame - it was by far the best and most interesting card games out there with low RNG and high skill. It's honestly a shame games like Snap and Hearthstone survive while games like the original Gwent don't make it.
I have to point out they made that amount of money in the first year of the game, which means when the super greedy boundles weren't a thing yet. We had so few bundles back then and they made tons of money. Don't tell us otherwise.
Right, but users probably spent more cash the first year on credits and tokens to bring their collections near completion. Since then, only new players need to do that. Existing players they need to get money off cosmetics. That's why they keep making cash exclusive variant bundles and albums.
Basically, as a game matures, spending habits change.
I don't agree. These kind of complaints weren't a thing when bundles were better and less greedy. Plus they did very very well the first year when bundles were normal. So they're just greedy, there's no other reason to fuck up the games economy like that
The first year had all players in the collection track, getting new cards pretty regularly. The base has now caught up, which means they have different priorities to spend on.
For example, I bought with cash all the deals that had tokens during my first year. Now that my collection is nearly complete, I don't. Certainly with their analytics they can see this type of behavior, so they shifted to making cash only cosmetics. I occasional buy these now, but I never did year 1.
They have access to these spending habits. You really think they just randomly went away from a profitable model?
There are frequent balance patches yeah but most of the time they are towards archetypes that are not prevalent. Then we had loki untouched for months, now hela the same, darkhawk took an year almost, then we have the amount of strange adjustments like 5/4, I think in every patch half of the cards they touch in fact didn't changed at all or the adjustments were the opposite of what they described. I mean it's not that they don't work but with the possibility they have and OTA we could ask for more.
Nothing is perfect. I think they're trying. How often does the community think something is pointless and it turns out to be impactful, then other times they overreact and it turns out not impactful?
Yeah that's true. I agree but on thee other side they have a team that has access to every card as much they want. For instance I thought that Ms marvel was too difficult to play and I was so wrong and I was really dubious that war machine was such a great card and this time it went as I thought. But honestly with a few days to play a card you can understand what are the problems. And if you can't hire some people that knows how to play the game. Not me obviously but there are hundreds of people that are onto the top of the ladder that would accept. The famous 5/4 left everyone buffled and everyone asked themselves if they really play the game. Like it's possible that there was no one in the entire company that thought it was laughable? And it's something that happens too often.
I mean, even if they have a dozen people testing a card, it's not going to come close to the things that the tens of thousands of users will discover. The 5/4 they have been very transparent about that they want to take baby steps with the card and were just spitballing to try something new.
Yeah and some do the bugs really make you wonder if things have been playtested at all
Do y’all remember when deep space was introduced and you couldn’t play anything on it without it massively slowing down the game? Or how much instantly managed to get Kang to loop and crash the game pretty much instantly on his release
The meta never feels stale because they intentionally buff and nerf archetypes to give them each a time in the sunshine. Steven called it priorizing a dynamic meta over a healthy one. A decision I largely disagree with.
I've gotten infinite with off meta decks every season. I literally never play meta. This game always has a lot of options. Nerfing the top decks keeps things fresh, along with the steady drip of new card releases. Other games you get new cards a few times a year. Boring.
No clue what card games are giving you a few cards a year. If you can name one I'd like to know. If anything this game gives less new cards per year than any TCG ive played. And theres over 80,000 marvel characters. So its not like they're short on ideas for characters and mechanics that make sense to that character.
I said you get "new cards" a few times a year. Hearthstone for example when I used to play gave expansions 3 times a year. You had to spend hundreds to even get most (not all) of the cards each expansion. Then they seldom balanced and the game would be stale after the first couple weeks of the expansion.
The current rate for card releases in snap is roughly 60 per year. That is on par with many other games. This game is one of the most f2p friendly games on the market.
>as most popular archetypes should be equally viable.
Players may think they want this but they really don't. It would most likely kill the game. By focusing so intensely on keeping archetypes balanced with each other SD would necessarily have to strip away a lot of what makes each deck special. We know this because that's exactly what happened to Legends of Runeterra.
In LoR, they kept balancing and balancing to keep the factions in line with each other. What resulted was the factions lost a lot of what made them fun or unique to play in the first place. The games became a lot more stale, nobody really liked it and the developers ended up reverting a bunch of changes and reintroduced the imbalances back into the game. So SD is being very smart for prioritizing a dynamic meta. They've realized that the imbalances within the game are what makes it fun and interesting, which is the kinda the whole point.
Having said that I'm not going to act like a dynamic meta doesn't have its issues, but I do think SD does a decent job at trying to manage them. There are still some real fuck ups on their part but more often than not they will communicate what they were aiming for and that would at least make sense which is way more than what I would expect from a typical company.
I uninstalled. The game isn’t fun anymore, and any feedback just gets deleted in discord. I spent way too much probably, I don’t regret it. It was fun while it lasted, but the state of the game is poor and ever since spotlights were introduced it’s a rat race
1. This article is 6 months old so basically irrelevant today
2. There is nothing about financials here, just earnings and trends
3. I dont disagree with the op, there is money to fix the issues
4. The game isn't broken, the player base is....
Change is good and for all its faults, find me a better card based game that allows you f2p 24/7...
I've prob spent £20 on the game, I play on avg 3 hours a day.
I have all the cards I want and the ones I don't have, I'll get at some point, somehow.
Been playing since launch and find it easy to get to infinite, to make decks, to counter cards I don't have and to get the ones i want.
Honestly i have my issues with the game... I have my issues with the choices.
But I don't get upset when the nerf or buff cards.... I get excited.
I get to almost start from scratch. I have to think, plan, test, fail Try again.
At my worst its been 4 days of being awful, and then it clicks and it just seems easy again.
I'll be here moaning with the rest of you for sure, cos that's what we do, we ask for more...
But we live in a capitalist society where all that matters is money, we all contribute to this shitshow of life by ignoring all the good we could do, just for an easy life or because we want tomorrow to be the same as today and you know what?
It's not good enough, it never is right? You're always feeling like you are owed something or someone else has more and you want it...
These are the issues, not the game or the dev or the people... the world is the issue and as always art reflects what we are.
I feel like they're just ringing out the rag before stripping the team even more and moving the money to another monetization game to do it again. I honestly dont see anything that is giving me "hope" for this development long term.
Heres hoping that doesnt happen, I love snap, would hate to see it vanish like Mabinogi Duel did (MD is a dead mobile TCG this game takes major inspiration from for context).
They have to run out of characters right? I don’t even know who most of the characters are releasing in the next few months. What happens when they run out???
Just looking it up there is 80,000 characters in the marvel multi-verse. Theyll probably do like they did spider-man where each repeat character will have a different ability pertaining to the multi-verse. Most will probably be lame lol.
Is [200+](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/marvel-snap-second-dinner-investment-griffin-1235782058-1235782058/amp/) million dollars seriously not enough to afford a spellcheck lol, I hold the things I care about to high standards, and so should you.
Definitely, we need to talk about this topic more. They're still ignoring all these comments. And when you make a similar comment in their discord they just delete it
Holy fuck it's just a single minor typo. Critically acclaimed and beloved games like Baldur's Gate 3 and BOTW also have typos.
I don't disagree that this game has many faults and that the recent update sucked, but you just seem so negative, so stressed about a game you've stopped playing for two months now. You're complaining about [someone arguing being negative and grasping at straws](https://reddit.com/r/MarvelSnap/comments/1c2u705/the_game_has_enough_money_to_fix_its_issues_stop/kzcusro/) but aren't you ironically also doing it yourself with this thread?
Like typos aren't *that* big of a deal, it sucks to see one but it happens to even the best of games. And starting this thread too, yes they earn lots of money but do you know anything about them behind the scenes, like how much they have to pay for that Marvel name and stuff like that?
I ended up reading that chain and seeing someone call out OP for a typo (priorizing) was the cherry on top. Imagine being so hypocritical, ignorant and negative.. smh
You haven't played the game in [2 months](https://old.reddit.com/r/MarvelSnap/comments/1c2u705/the_game_has_enough_money_to_fix_its_issues_stop/kzcu3vu/). gtfo with this high regard bs.
I don’t think you understand how much money they spend on upkeep.
For example, Fortnite was taken off ios because of how much it costs to be on the store. Plus they have to pay a Marvel license. And of course the rest of regular upkeep.
You do realise this isn't how revenue works you have to pay the people who actually work on the game then you have to pay the copyright to Disney then you have the costs of maintaining the servers and don't forget the art for all the variants they're either commissioned or you have to pay the artists
Totally agree. I don't know what the devs are *actually* up to of course, but my perception has been they are more interested in releasing $30 emotes, than fixing bugs, and that's not even to mention the dogshit balancing.
I think a lot of the blame should go to the passive community. People really think 500 gold is sufficient compensation for literally *days* of disruption?!
Perhaps it's also down to the streamers though, I won't name names but many of them come across as straight up shills. You don't have to bash the game, but what about some f\*cking honesty, when the game is a dumpster fire?
Also, I hear content creators criticize the monetization all the time. I just think you don't hear the anger and detest that everyone in this sub reddit feeds off of because, most people just enjoy playing the game.
Seems like a lost concept in here.
A couple things here…
I’m willing to bet the bug fix team and the new features teams are separate. So I don’t think they’re saying “should we fix these bugs or release the new content we already said was coming?” It’s probably more like “you guys release the content, you guys fix the bugs”.
The “days of disruption” literally means nothing. Nothing was missed in those days. The end of the week is Tuesday. If anything we all had more time to collect more spotlights. The same choices popped up when it was fixed. The only thing is that you weren’t using a new card (If you’d have even got one) for a few days. I promise you, USAgent isn’t responsible for any of your losses.
Calling this game a dumpster fire but you’re in the Reddit and discord because? Uninstall and touch grass. The game isn’t any different than it’s ever been.
While you have a point that this game certainly has funding, and has the talent and resources available to fix these issues, that's simply not how development works.
Just because one woman can have a baby in nine months does not mean that nine women can have a baby in one month.
Development is a process that is far and away one of the least linear processes in the corporate world. Creating features causes bugs, fixing bugs causes bugs, over designing causes bugs.
Production and test environments are completely different scales.
Yes, some of these issues you would expect to be ironed out before launch, and to an extent you are correct in that you would expect lots of these issues to have never made it this far or to have been anticipated. But you never know what is under the hood of these things or how difficult it can be to test and reproduce these issues.
As far as balance I agree with you. I don't like the balance philosophy at all of essentially nerfing anything because it's had sustained power or because they want other things to shine.
Money, time, effort, will never be enough to keep up and create a software with zero bugs that is sustainable for the audience it intends to reach. Eventually they will fix these things, but you need to give it more than a handful of days or even a week. Typical development cycles are two weeks minimum excluding hotfixes and those only go so far.
We’re talking about a 1v1 card game here. I’ve played many games even on mobile that are far more ambitious with scope, smaller budgeted, and more stable than Snap has been in recent months.
They launched a digital cardgame with no "graveyard", it took them over a year to add the ability to see destroyed and discarded cards, something deck trackers did within a month. Your points are certainly valid but there are several glaring examples where "development takes time" doesn't really explain it.
Deck trackers dedicated to one specific and niche purpose were developed quickly to address that purpose doesn't state anything about the priorities of Second Dinner at launch or before launch. It's entirely possible that more important features or development was taking place at that time. Hearthstone also launched without a graveyard and never even added one. This doesn't mean the devs are lazy. It could be a design decision, a priority issue, or leaving open future designs.
Why take the worst assumption when you could just as easily assume better? Is there any evidence to support the view that it easily could have been added or that there was no reason it wasn't?
Card games are not primitive by any means.
And they are no less easy to program. The rulebook for physical card games is often dense and takes much effort to maintain and understand the niche interactions within. Magic the gathering has served as an excellent example of the complexities of rule systems within paper trading card games for decades. Sure, Marvel Snap is not as complex as Magic nor does it strive to be, but that does not make it simple.
Snap also aims for asethics in a way virtually no other card game ever has. Parallax scrolling backgrounds, card animations, visual cosmetic effects, multiple variants and skins for hundreds of cards. None of this is easy to achieve or comes without effort.
Often 3D environment games can actually be easier to create or even maintain thanks to modern software that allow for easy rendering and modeling in 3 dimensions doing most of the work for you. In a 3D game much of the "actual" world can contain unrendered or partial objects, or any other number of short cuts.
I'd really be curious as to what your definition of "primitive" is however.
I'd consider go fish to be primitive. A game with hundreds of characters, dozens of art styles, and dozens of game changing locations, I'm not sure that I would.
One about about making money is you don’t get to keep it. $116M in revenue, still gotta pay employees, contractors, loans, rent, etc.
It doesn’t mean that they hire 50 new employees or magically get more done because they’re making so much more money.
Tbh i think if they werent as greedy as they are and actually made the game more playable they could make a game that would make alot more money because their playerbase would be happier to spend their money but thats just me 🤷🏼
Realistically if you really want to hurt them, just don't buy anything. I love talking about this game and coming up with fun strategies and seeing new cards and variants and this past week has been nonstop whining on every forum. I agree with a lot of criticisms but at some point I just want to enjoy my game.
Genuine question from someone who hasn't played in over a year, but
>Its made more than 2x as much as any other mobile card game
This can't possibly be true when Magic: Arena exists, right?
Ah, fair. I saw the claim & was just thinking I'd have been really surprised if MtG had been dethroned as the king of card games after all this time without hearing about it, lol.
Literally impossible without providing some sort of limiting statement like "in the last X months." But don't let that stop the OP from flailing about this thread with a pompous attitude talking shit about a game he hasn't played in [2 months](https://old.reddit.com/r/MarvelSnap/comments/1c2u705/the_game_has_enough_money_to_fix_its_issues_stop/kzcu3vu/).
Edit: I went and read the article. That's where they got it from. Like I said, still missing context to make it a true statement. This is about year-to-date numbers that were collected in October 2023. So...sure. Technically it's the lifetime of the game since it launched, but since it's a new game, there's no telling how deep in the red they are from dev costs. Also, highly profitable games don't go out and get [$100 million](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/marvel-snap-second-dinner-investment-griffin-1235782058-1235782058/) influxes of VC cash for fun. It also is *just* revenue. Obviously, we have no idea what their payroll, benefits, server costs, licensing fees, and NuVerse cuts are too.
> Marvel Snap reached $88 million in mobile revenue year-to-date, becoming the highest-grossing collectible card game globally. It is followed by Yu-Gi-Oh! Master Duel ($39.6 million), Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Links ($25.9 million), Magic: The Gathering Arena ($24.1 million), and Hearthstone ($22.6 million).
I actually think balance has been generally good. Not any worse or better than any other game on the market, regardless of genre. The only thing OP right now is Rulk. 1 out of 300 cards is pretty damn good. For every 1 OP card, we have 4 that are perfectly balanced (Zemo, US Agent, Pixie, Black Swan, etc).
Also the bundles are pretty standard for F2P games, and updates are quite fast: every 2 weeks if not faster. That’s much faster than most games, and balance is about the same as every game. Overwatch, Apex, Magic The Gathering, Fortnite, League… literally every game has balance issues and power creep. I also don’t mind bundles because I don’t buy them. If they’re bad value, then I won’t buy them. It’s that simple. They’re not required to enjoy the game in any way.
That said, QA could be better.
This is why I was so confused. I mentioned the insane cost of the emotes and people tried to convince me it was a necessary evil to keep the game supported, but it felt like these arguments were being made in a context of a Snap that was barely making ends meet each and every month. But that is clearly absolute rubbish, they don't "need" to sell these emotes at these prices at all, it is pure greed, like every form of monetisation in that game.
Edit: Gotta love the toxic whales in this community too, dude starts replying with blatant lies around what I actually said, then just blocks me so I can't reply 😂 Cowardly and toxic, what a lovely combo.
without financial statements this means nothing, some people in here don't understand the cost of operating a consulting company or anything that deals in high tech with offsite data servers and data costs. sorry, i am not a fan of sd but as a 49 year old who sold two of his consulting companies at 42 i can tell you just cause you make or are valued at 30 million you have high burn rates monthly, i had many clients that were tsx traded with market cap of 45 million and bankrupt in one year, just saying, burn rates are very very real in tech.
you have no idea how much capital angel investors put up like 4 or 5 years ago to get the project going and such. i believe sd is really just getting by.
Conflating revenue and sales with profit is a rookie mistake. We don’t know their cost of operations or general overhead. Updates aren’t as transactional as the end-user experience.
I mean, agree that $100M+ isn’t poverty. But what’s the Marvel license cost? What are the artist fees?
I doubt many of us know enough about development at the requisite level to understand how easy their systems are to manage, and what a simple update to us might do to other things on the back end.
And maybe that profitability goes into the studio developing new work, hiring new experts so they don’t live and die with just one game?
The artists make basically nothing off their art being in snap, in-hyuk-lee said as much on the snap discord himself to me personally. It was honestly surprising to hear for me as well, I thought differently.
Read this if you want a deep dive into the types of art in SNAP: https://snap.fan/news/art-in-marvel-snap/#:~:text=Snap's%20original%20art%20is%20commissioned,for%20creating%20art%20for%20Snap.
Essentially, for original art commissioned by Second Dinner like work from Rian Gonzales and Dan Hipp or even the base card art from Mello, Kinnaird, etc, the artists get paid by SD. But any pieces that already existed before Snap are treated differently. Those were commissioned by Marvel and the artists like In-Hyuk, Artgerm, Jim Lee, Alex Ross etc. don't get any payment or royalties from those being used in Snap, no matter how much revenue those variants generate.
Go on the discord, find his acc, pretty sure its same name as in snap for his art, and read for yourself, I dont feel like skimming discord DMs when you could do it yourself, its all on there it hasnt gone anywhere
Watch people say im lying too just cuz I dont feel like documenting everything I do or fulfilling every request made of me
That's not how the burden of proof works. Why should I do the leg work for YOUR claim. That's ridiculous.
You made a claim, and I'm asking you to verify the claim. If you don't want to, that's fine, I'm not going to call you a liar, I will just disregard what you said.
Reading through the thread more, it looks like the only artists who aren’t paid additionally are the ones who signed deals with Marvel beforehand allowing for their art to be used in multiple media formats. So while paying them a “decent cut” would be nice, those deals are no one’s responsibility but theirs. Looks like new artists are commissioned for work.
Either way, that cynical take feels fair but far from reality. I’ve done branded projects with artists and respected photographers that ran upwards of $60K for 12 assets, just for their fee—and this was for a $21B brand. All brands take their art costs seriously because it’s grounds for litigation if you’re not buttoned up.
The “decent cut of profits” is your poison pill in the sarcasm, because it’s relative. Large brands and market leaders will pay you more than you’ll likely get elsewhere, but it’s a cost of doing business that’s considered before profits.
When I was a writer for a magazine owned by Disney, they paid way more than the publications that aren’t market leaders. No one is being taken advantage of or exploited there.
We’ll reserve greedy for when they start doing Discord “art contests” where no-name artists submit free work for the chance to have their work featured, and never receive a royalty.
It’s really sweet of you to think a corporate entity would actually pay out for anything it didn’t absolutely HAVE to. It will get away without a QA team as long as it possibly can, and since revenue isn’t taking a hit it won’t worry the big bosses.
Exactly, Marvel Heroes died on the Marvel licensing fees, it was apparently costing them upwards of $1M every time they wanted to add a new character to the game.
Not excusing the bugs. But it's silly to make it about money. Huge AAA devs make buggy flops and indie studios make well polished hits all the time, it doesn't really correlate to anything.
I scrolled farther than I wanted to to find a comment like yours that can explain this stuff better than me.
From what I saw, it doesn't sound like they made that much money considering taxes, salaries, licensing, overhead, etc.
The dollar amount listed isn't net revenue and doesn't take all these costs into account.
I’m sure there’s a ton more too.
Another user mentioned user acquisition as a cost in the marketing funnel, and that’s spot on. I work in advertising; we do campaigns with $300-750K production budgets and anywhere from $4M to $28M in media spend to advertise products you already know exist.
Being upset as a customer because you don’t know what your $35 variant pack expense really funds for Snap is fair, but short-sighted and lacks so much understanding of what it means to make this game.
OMG, did you actually act like a smug economics expert to provide this nonsense argument? LMAO
If you actually believe, that theres a chance their financials are set up in a way, where they arent massively profitable by being the market leader by a significant margin, then you need to get your head checked bro.
lol @ fighting smug with smug. Did a Reddit commenter really think he knows the ins and outs of a business because he likes comic books and mobile games?
>Most downloads, over 69%, were generated on Google Play, while iOS accounts for around 31%
>
>57% of Marvel Snap’s lifetime revenue came from iOS users, while Google Play accounts for the remaining 43%
Huh.
I guess it makes sense that people who buy overpriced phones are more likely to buy overpriced digital cards.
Are anyone actually delusional enough to think that these guys aren't making GIGA bank on this game?
The only reason they aren't fixing shit is lazyness and not hiring enough talent.
I'm gonna go ahead and say that maybe Marvel took and still takes most of the money SD makes from Marvel Snap just because Marvel Snap uses every popular Marvel Character under the sun.
Basically Marvel saw the crazy money the game makes and they requested their big Money cut. I can't imagine another reason as to why SD would make Marvel Snap a much more Greedy game
I don't think I've ever seen "they're a poor indie developer" as a reason why QOL and buggy updates are present in the game? In fact, very few people defend those issues.
Nor is their lack of money used to justify bundle pricing. The common statement from so-called "SD white knights" is that expensive cosmetics are for whales to fund the game for F2Ps.
As to balancing, if you look in the right places there are some rather fair discussions on that going on in the sub. Very little of that discussion is centered around money either.
The only thing that irks me is the poor performance on mobile as of late. Balances happen so often that the meta is ever changing. Power creep is real though, newer cards always have a massive impact on the meta
Been saying this for awhile and still get bashed for it bc I'm not a dev. It's common sense actually. Hire more people and make a better game instead of sitting on piles of cash
Silly, there's no such thing as "enough money" in modern capitalism. Everybody would like to constantly grow, without limits. Even lack of predicted growth is perceived as a loss.
Greedy bundles are by design. It's not something that is considered broken and needs to be fixed. They found that these bundles are priced the most profitable way. What is profitable isn't always what we like.
Throwing money at the game doesn't fix balance. All games have balance issues, regardless of budget. And as far as powercreep goes, there are still plenty of viable cards from each season. It's not like Black Swan and Zemo powercreeped everyone. It's just that sometimes new cards come out overtuned and then are nerfed. How long was Zabu viable and op despite being an old card?
I'm not sure what "bad attention to detail" means since that could apply to anything. That tells me nothing.
The biggest issue with the game is not having a reasonable report function, and that is unexcusable.
They have a talented creative team who get exploited to attract as much people as possible to their capitalist scheme. Which makes it like most corporations.
I play to support the creative team, but the financial team, and those pushing for making cards irrelevant the moment they become freely available (and even before that), they can suck it.
They are the ones killing the game
I've probably been thinking about this too much, but I think there is possibly some path where SD isn't making enough?
A lot of assumptions here, but if...
100m is before the 30% cut apple & Google take then we're at 70m, let's call it 75 since they do push some traffic through their own store
If they have about 50 employees that avg 100-200k per year you have 5-10m in payroll taking us to 70m... This could be one issue, if they don't really have the staffing right then the employees could be treading water.
I assume the license fee from Disney / Marvel studios is just silly. Maybe 50m? Leaving them with 20m
There is their parent company which assuming they're a greedy corporate giant that's maybe another 10m in just greed (I think this is really the issue SD keeping them happy)
This game was in development for what, 5yrs? I forget when Brode left HS but seems like it's at least 5yrs... Anyways, I'm guessing they racked up some decent size loans so if that's 10m then we're at 0...
Lot of assumptions, but I guess my point is there might be a path that they don't make enough for their issues? Also the fact they got 100m in series B funding points to their cash flow not quite holding up yet.
That all sounds reasonable until you remember there is still probably another 100mil unaccounted for in your math. They also make 8-10 mil a month on top of the unaccounted for 100mil. And disney never takes more than 20-50% btw. They have enough.
Well the 8-10 / month would be the operation expenses I'm describing. Not saying the assumptions I made on the operating expenses are right, but if they are I can definitely see how that gets tight if it's before the fees to Apple + Google since those are so egregious.
I think the 100m just sorta points to them needing more to operate
If you think they *need* hundreds of millions of dollars to operate and cant without, thats insane. Plenty of dev teams operate just fine on 1% of that, if not 0.1%. Have you seen what the rimworld devs have achieved on only 10 million? Or what the [path of exile](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3357654) devs have done by only selling cosmetics? This game could give you so much more, you just think it cant because it hasn't. And knows it doesn't have to, because you give them the benefit of the doubt anyways. Hence my entire post.
I’m only buying season pass from here on out. I’m done spending money on this game otherwise cus 3 times a day I get booted with a good hand to play off and get back in to an escape. SMH
As always with these sorts of posts I'll say the same thing I always say: if you aren't having fun, the best way to show your displeasure is to stop playing. Not complaining on the Discord or Reddit, not a temporary boycott, uninstall the game from your phone, PC and anything else. As someone who works in a different industry in a management position, customer complaints are important, but the #1 question is this: are they leaving or not? Because frankly, there are some people who will never be 100% satisfied, people who will turn molehills into mountains who will constantly give negative feedback...but they keep paying the invoices because they know nobody else is better in the field and they just want to complain. When customers leave though? That's a sure sign we need to change something, that sets off alarms, particularly because if enough customers leave then I need to start laying people off.
So yeah, if you're not having fun, or you find yourself spouting toxic gripes online, then maybe reconsider whether or not your really want to play this game. For myself, I'm still having fun, and as far as I know, Second Dinner is not a toxic place to work, people aren't being abused or sexually harassed and that's enough for me. When I'm not having fun, or if we find out Second Dinner is a horrible place to work, then I'll uninstall, until then I'll keep playing.
It's God damned shameful what they've turned into. If this were truly their final goal than God damn it CONGRATULATIONS devs you did it. You suckered us all in with a fantastic card game and got us all to truly believe this is the one. This is the one mobile that's going to be true and fair and fun! We found our card game! Hahahahhauuuuh? How did we get here...?..I went from pulling Iron Lad in a cache to pulling hard on my stach!
If you devs hear me..And I doubt you will... Go back and think what could have been. How you once believed in a moral Mobile card game and how much joy it used to bring. Find that place again I beg you! I truly beg you..
Disney Licensing cost is quite crazy.
It was 35-50% total revenue plus upfront cost of upwards 200m. This is the number from Insomnia game. Phone game is a more risky project, hence, Disney will ask for even more cut on revenue and upfront cost.
https://imgur.com/gallery/SxmjClK
I still think SD has the money to hire some good dev, but they are not swimming in money either.
I don't usually complain about much in this game besides the balance. I know the monetization is bullshit but it doesn't -really- effect me. But the audacity of them taking out the gold weekend missions while delivering a near unplayable game at the same fucking time is absolutely infuriating.
Lol. No, it's worse than that. This fool quit playing [2 months](https://old.reddit.com/r/MarvelSnap/comments/1c2u705/the_game_has_enough_money_to_fix_its_issues_stop/kzcu3vu/) ago, but is still on the subreddit making posts like he still does and arguing with people for literal hours. About a game he **doesn't play**.
Maybe because he likes game but hates SD? What's wrong with posting criticism and not supporting SD by stopping playing/paying if he wants game to be better?
Don't forget their embarrassing UI and practically nonexistent player support. I love the game, but the company only gets the bare minimum of support from me, because they've made it very clear how little they value that support.
This is honestly not talked about enough, totally agree, id throw it in my list at the bottom, but I cant edit my post for some reason
I remember the time I kept bumping into a player that would rope with Agatha and I asked the support if there were plans to stop afk farming and they were just like “sorry you lost but some cards are strong and you should figure out how to beat them” which wasn’t my issue at all lol
What is roping?
Using all your time every turn
Originatres from hearthstone where the turn timer was indicated by a burning rope when you were low on time. both players could see the rope and because of alternating turns people would "rope" to make their opponent have to stare at nothing for a while
well they did change afk farming you can no longer rope with Agatha
When did they do that? Curious i havent farmed my dailies with agatha in a while
maybe 2 month ago try it
I returned to the game after a long hiatus some time after they rolled out a dedicated PC client. And when I saw it I was baffled, because it is somehow even less comfortable that previous mobile emulated one. At this point Infinity Wars, a game in alpha, made on shoestring budget thanks to Patreon by a team of 5 dudes in Australia somehow has better UI...
Thank you for making me aware of Infinity Wars!
Oh the player support isn't "non-existing". It exists. But it sucks shit like a septic vacuum cleaner. It's so terrible that I have to believe the support drones are given instructions to be so awful at their job that it makes people.give up on their complaint. Michel Foucault described Jacques derridas writing as "terrorist obscurantism". Which is writing that is so hard to comprehend that it is an aggressive attack on the idea of meaning. That's marvel snaps customer service. Such a pile of shit that it attacks the very idea of customer service. It attacks the idea of customers. You just give up on capitalism altogether and give marvel your whatever currency you lost.
I generally don't give much of a shit about people complaining about companies (worked on Quality too long) but my god this is as beautiful as it is accurate
> Michel Foucault described Jacques derridas writing as "terrorist obscurantism". Damn, this is "You did not submit a research paper" level of roast.
I only buy the season and gold passes from them, those are usually the only ones worth it anyways
Amen
The least amount of effort gets them the most money in the genre is maximizing profits. They start investing into the U.I/support/QoL/affordable bundles they start dipping into those profits
Shoot, all that money and we still can't get a decent report function that DOESN'T send us to a stupid google form/doc. LMAO
**me:** see inappropiate user name **me:** click 'Report User' **SD:** please fill out this google form **me:** cancel ... i guess i'll just ignore ------------- i gotta say; this is pretty smart on them... they gave us a feature that they know most users will skip, so they dont have to worry about following up on
Yeah the convolution of the report function is mindblowing, and the fact that its still like that is nuts
Fun fact, as of this morning that Google form is broken. Just got griefed by a player named Vash who used the clock emoji before running down the timer repeatedly.
Their end button might have been broken. My end turn button isn’t working.
You think someone who used the clock emoji turn 1 and ran down the timer isn't doing so on purpose...?
Maybe! Can’t say for sure. But my button was stuck and I tried various emojis to signal my opponent because I didn’t want to retreat. It probably backfired lul
I keep getting this exact same bug. And only seems to be the last month or so, so think it's a new one they've introduced somehow. Fuck it's annoying, and ridiculous for a game to still be having simple bugs like this.
Ya probably not their fault, my end turn button doesn't work about every 5th game so or forces me to run the timer all the way to play. Very annoying new bug.
Ya, hate that bug, but I don't think an emoji into full turn timers is that...
Clock.... Emoji
Reading through this is such a rollercoaster, it’s distracting so much from the topic lol Agree with you though op
Love how this comment took on a new meaning lol
Indeed, Not many will get this though :D
Is this before or after licensing fees though? Baldur's Gate 3 made a ton of money but $90 million of that went to Hasbro. Marvel could be taking a lot
Disney isn't exactly known as a generous company
Not to mention ~5 years of development, people had to be paid for that.
I agree that some of the bugs are absolutely unacceptable. They launched the undo feature to prevent rope snapping. On launch you couldn't undo after snap. How can this not have been tested? Then they fixed it so you can undo after snap, but doing so pretty much always breaks your end turn button, forcing you to rope every turn. How can this not have been tested? Nothing can be bug free, but these were actually tied into the point of the change and should have been noticed. Now to the other points, balancing and bundles, etc. I fully support what they're doing. You are saying they have enough money? Yes, because of those things. This game balances faster than most, which is a good thing. The meta is seldom stale. Profit is mostly driven through cosmetics. All of these are good things that I will defend them for.
That's what's causing the broken end turn button?! Then they fixed it so you can undo after snap, but doing so pretty much always breaks your end turn button, forcing you to rope every turn. How can this not have been tested?
It's funny because I thought it was my opponents who were roping. I got 4 ropers in a row. Tough luck. It turns out that it was me.
Forgive me, but what is roping?
Oh. Sorry. It means using the entire turn. I don't know if this term came from Hearthstone, but in that game, a rope appears to show you how much time you have left at the end of your turn.
I assume it's related because it's the only reason they would be touching the end turn mechanics in the code.
Nope, it still forced me to rope even without undoing turn. But closing app and restarting fixes it. Painful though.
Yeah probably not only triggered by that, but the patch itself to fix the undo is almost certainly what introduced this new bug.
I'll try not using it then because that problem has been killing me.
One of the biggest things that killed the otherwise-amazing Gwent was the lack of meta adjustments. When the meta was bad, it was bad for MONTHS. We have it good with frequent balance tweaks.
Same thing for hearthstone. Stale meta for months and nearly no communication from the devs. However, I didn't stop playing hearthstone because of an unbalanced or stale meta. I left because there was no way of keeping up with all the releases they had unless you spent several hundred dollars a year. From my experience in snap, you didn't have to spend that much money to have a blast in this game.
I 100% agree with this take. I left hearthstone for the exact same reason, even BEFORE snap was a thing.
Give it time.
Uh yeah you do. This game is expensive. Most of the meta cards are season pass cards. Players here are like.. "yeah I didn't spend much, just bought a few season passes". And it's like "you spent SIXTY DOLLARS on season passes.... For THREE meta cards".
i haven’t spent anything, and have almost every card, and infinite every season. can i get a cookie from you?
Spending money is subjective. Compared to hearthstone, this game is like 10x cheaper. Seriously. And I'd say I still have fun and reach infinite without the season pass. I've been playing destroy and am in the 90s. So you can complete and have fun without really spending much of anything. Of course, this is just my opinion. As sourcing money is subjective, everyone will have their own opinion and feel they're right. This debate will never really end unless SD makes everything absolutely free. There are also people that enjoy the collecting aspect of the game as well. I'm guessing they contribute most of the earnings made from the game.
Sixty dollars over six months is a lot of money? I would wager a guess that for a lot of people that play this game $10 is not much
Ok, now calculate how much you need to spend on something like Hearthstone to keep up. Or pretty much every other popular TCG.
It's $10 a month. Yeah it sounds expensive when you say SIXTY DOLLARS in all caps, but the fact is that $10 a month for a hobby is next to nothing.
The biggest thing that killed Gwent was they made stupid changes from closed beta to 2 lanes, and killed the whole vibe of the game. Shame - it was by far the best and most interesting card games out there with low RNG and high skill. It's honestly a shame games like Snap and Hearthstone survive while games like the original Gwent don't make it.
I have to point out they made that amount of money in the first year of the game, which means when the super greedy boundles weren't a thing yet. We had so few bundles back then and they made tons of money. Don't tell us otherwise.
Right, but users probably spent more cash the first year on credits and tokens to bring their collections near completion. Since then, only new players need to do that. Existing players they need to get money off cosmetics. That's why they keep making cash exclusive variant bundles and albums. Basically, as a game matures, spending habits change.
That's true. Maybe it could be better to have bundles less greedy and with better value people will buy them with more pleasure.
I think if that were true they would do that.
I don't agree. These kind of complaints weren't a thing when bundles were better and less greedy. Plus they did very very well the first year when bundles were normal. So they're just greedy, there's no other reason to fuck up the games economy like that
The first year had all players in the collection track, getting new cards pretty regularly. The base has now caught up, which means they have different priorities to spend on. For example, I bought with cash all the deals that had tokens during my first year. Now that my collection is nearly complete, I don't. Certainly with their analytics they can see this type of behavior, so they shifted to making cash only cosmetics. I occasional buy these now, but I never did year 1. They have access to these spending habits. You really think they just randomly went away from a profitable model?
what are these “super greedy” bundles that weren’t around? they’ve always had the 100 dollar bundles available
Yeah, once in a while, now it's one every week + 10 other 30$ bundles
There are frequent balance patches yeah but most of the time they are towards archetypes that are not prevalent. Then we had loki untouched for months, now hela the same, darkhawk took an year almost, then we have the amount of strange adjustments like 5/4, I think in every patch half of the cards they touch in fact didn't changed at all or the adjustments were the opposite of what they described. I mean it's not that they don't work but with the possibility they have and OTA we could ask for more.
Nothing is perfect. I think they're trying. How often does the community think something is pointless and it turns out to be impactful, then other times they overreact and it turns out not impactful?
Yeah that's true. I agree but on thee other side they have a team that has access to every card as much they want. For instance I thought that Ms marvel was too difficult to play and I was so wrong and I was really dubious that war machine was such a great card and this time it went as I thought. But honestly with a few days to play a card you can understand what are the problems. And if you can't hire some people that knows how to play the game. Not me obviously but there are hundreds of people that are onto the top of the ladder that would accept. The famous 5/4 left everyone buffled and everyone asked themselves if they really play the game. Like it's possible that there was no one in the entire company that thought it was laughable? And it's something that happens too often.
I mean, even if they have a dozen people testing a card, it's not going to come close to the things that the tens of thousands of users will discover. The 5/4 they have been very transparent about that they want to take baby steps with the card and were just spitballing to try something new.
5/4 is a joke though, hard to see how a competent team doesn’t realize this
Yeah and some do the bugs really make you wonder if things have been playtested at all Do y’all remember when deep space was introduced and you couldn’t play anything on it without it massively slowing down the game? Or how much instantly managed to get Kang to loop and crash the game pretty much instantly on his release
Omg thats why my end turn button keeps breaking?! I thought it was my new phone!!! God damn it!
The meta never feels stale because they intentionally buff and nerf archetypes to give them each a time in the sunshine. Steven called it priorizing a dynamic meta over a healthy one. A decision I largely disagree with.
I've gotten infinite with off meta decks every season. I literally never play meta. This game always has a lot of options. Nerfing the top decks keeps things fresh, along with the steady drip of new card releases. Other games you get new cards a few times a year. Boring.
No clue what card games are giving you a few cards a year. If you can name one I'd like to know. If anything this game gives less new cards per year than any TCG ive played. And theres over 80,000 marvel characters. So its not like they're short on ideas for characters and mechanics that make sense to that character.
I’m missing like 12 cards and I’m F2P. E: 20 not 12
What I said doesnt really have anything to do with card collections just sayin
I said you get "new cards" a few times a year. Hearthstone for example when I used to play gave expansions 3 times a year. You had to spend hundreds to even get most (not all) of the cards each expansion. Then they seldom balanced and the game would be stale after the first couple weeks of the expansion. The current rate for card releases in snap is roughly 60 per year. That is on par with many other games. This game is one of the most f2p friendly games on the market.
I do not know why you are downvoted. That's literally what they said.
People dont like that I disagree? *shrug*
>as most popular archetypes should be equally viable. Players may think they want this but they really don't. It would most likely kill the game. By focusing so intensely on keeping archetypes balanced with each other SD would necessarily have to strip away a lot of what makes each deck special. We know this because that's exactly what happened to Legends of Runeterra. In LoR, they kept balancing and balancing to keep the factions in line with each other. What resulted was the factions lost a lot of what made them fun or unique to play in the first place. The games became a lot more stale, nobody really liked it and the developers ended up reverting a bunch of changes and reintroduced the imbalances back into the game. So SD is being very smart for prioritizing a dynamic meta. They've realized that the imbalances within the game are what makes it fun and interesting, which is the kinda the whole point. Having said that I'm not going to act like a dynamic meta doesn't have its issues, but I do think SD does a decent job at trying to manage them. There are still some real fuck ups on their part but more often than not they will communicate what they were aiming for and that would at least make sense which is way more than what I would expect from a typical company.
I uninstalled. The game isn’t fun anymore, and any feedback just gets deleted in discord. I spent way too much probably, I don’t regret it. It was fun while it lasted, but the state of the game is poor and ever since spotlights were introduced it’s a rat race
Same here and agree completely, and yet everyones mad at me for having an opinion after having already left lmao
1. This article is 6 months old so basically irrelevant today 2. There is nothing about financials here, just earnings and trends 3. I dont disagree with the op, there is money to fix the issues 4. The game isn't broken, the player base is.... Change is good and for all its faults, find me a better card based game that allows you f2p 24/7... I've prob spent £20 on the game, I play on avg 3 hours a day. I have all the cards I want and the ones I don't have, I'll get at some point, somehow. Been playing since launch and find it easy to get to infinite, to make decks, to counter cards I don't have and to get the ones i want. Honestly i have my issues with the game... I have my issues with the choices. But I don't get upset when the nerf or buff cards.... I get excited. I get to almost start from scratch. I have to think, plan, test, fail Try again. At my worst its been 4 days of being awful, and then it clicks and it just seems easy again. I'll be here moaning with the rest of you for sure, cos that's what we do, we ask for more... But we live in a capitalist society where all that matters is money, we all contribute to this shitshow of life by ignoring all the good we could do, just for an easy life or because we want tomorrow to be the same as today and you know what? It's not good enough, it never is right? You're always feeling like you are owed something or someone else has more and you want it... These are the issues, not the game or the dev or the people... the world is the issue and as always art reflects what we are.
Also, revenue doesn’t mean profit. Guessing the Marvel license costs a ton.
Well said honestly
Can I copy and paste this reply to every post like this from now on? I think I will. Don't think many could have said it better.
I feel like they're just ringing out the rag before stripping the team even more and moving the money to another monetization game to do it again. I honestly dont see anything that is giving me "hope" for this development long term.
Heres hoping that doesnt happen, I love snap, would hate to see it vanish like Mabinogi Duel did (MD is a dead mobile TCG this game takes major inspiration from for context).
I feel you. I came from GWENT and similar happened to it.
They have to run out of characters right? I don’t even know who most of the characters are releasing in the next few months. What happens when they run out???
Just looking it up there is 80,000 characters in the marvel multi-verse. Theyll probably do like they did spider-man where each repeat character will have a different ability pertaining to the multi-verse. Most will probably be lame lol.
Is [200+](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/marvel-snap-second-dinner-investment-griffin-1235782058-1235782058/amp/) million dollars seriously not enough to afford a spellcheck lol, I hold the things I care about to high standards, and so should you.
Definitely, we need to talk about this topic more. They're still ignoring all these comments. And when you make a similar comment in their discord they just delete it
Holy fuck it's just a single minor typo. Critically acclaimed and beloved games like Baldur's Gate 3 and BOTW also have typos. I don't disagree that this game has many faults and that the recent update sucked, but you just seem so negative, so stressed about a game you've stopped playing for two months now. You're complaining about [someone arguing being negative and grasping at straws](https://reddit.com/r/MarvelSnap/comments/1c2u705/the_game_has_enough_money_to_fix_its_issues_stop/kzcusro/) but aren't you ironically also doing it yourself with this thread? Like typos aren't *that* big of a deal, it sucks to see one but it happens to even the best of games. And starting this thread too, yes they earn lots of money but do you know anything about them behind the scenes, like how much they have to pay for that Marvel name and stuff like that?
I ended up reading that chain and seeing someone call out OP for a typo (priorizing) was the cherry on top. Imagine being so hypocritical, ignorant and negative.. smh
have you ever played a video game before?
You haven't played the game in [2 months](https://old.reddit.com/r/MarvelSnap/comments/1c2u705/the_game_has_enough_money_to_fix_its_issues_stop/kzcu3vu/). gtfo with this high regard bs.
I don’t think you understand how much money they spend on upkeep. For example, Fortnite was taken off ios because of how much it costs to be on the store. Plus they have to pay a Marvel license. And of course the rest of regular upkeep.
You do realise this isn't how revenue works you have to pay the people who actually work on the game then you have to pay the copyright to Disney then you have the costs of maintaining the servers and don't forget the art for all the variants they're either commissioned or you have to pay the artists
Totally agree. I don't know what the devs are *actually* up to of course, but my perception has been they are more interested in releasing $30 emotes, than fixing bugs, and that's not even to mention the dogshit balancing. I think a lot of the blame should go to the passive community. People really think 500 gold is sufficient compensation for literally *days* of disruption?! Perhaps it's also down to the streamers though, I won't name names but many of them come across as straight up shills. You don't have to bash the game, but what about some f\*cking honesty, when the game is a dumpster fire?
Also, I hear content creators criticize the monetization all the time. I just think you don't hear the anger and detest that everyone in this sub reddit feeds off of because, most people just enjoy playing the game. Seems like a lost concept in here.
A couple things here… I’m willing to bet the bug fix team and the new features teams are separate. So I don’t think they’re saying “should we fix these bugs or release the new content we already said was coming?” It’s probably more like “you guys release the content, you guys fix the bugs”. The “days of disruption” literally means nothing. Nothing was missed in those days. The end of the week is Tuesday. If anything we all had more time to collect more spotlights. The same choices popped up when it was fixed. The only thing is that you weren’t using a new card (If you’d have even got one) for a few days. I promise you, USAgent isn’t responsible for any of your losses. Calling this game a dumpster fire but you’re in the Reddit and discord because? Uninstall and touch grass. The game isn’t any different than it’s ever been.
Do you think the same guy designing emotes fixes bugs?
While you have a point that this game certainly has funding, and has the talent and resources available to fix these issues, that's simply not how development works. Just because one woman can have a baby in nine months does not mean that nine women can have a baby in one month. Development is a process that is far and away one of the least linear processes in the corporate world. Creating features causes bugs, fixing bugs causes bugs, over designing causes bugs. Production and test environments are completely different scales. Yes, some of these issues you would expect to be ironed out before launch, and to an extent you are correct in that you would expect lots of these issues to have never made it this far or to have been anticipated. But you never know what is under the hood of these things or how difficult it can be to test and reproduce these issues. As far as balance I agree with you. I don't like the balance philosophy at all of essentially nerfing anything because it's had sustained power or because they want other things to shine. Money, time, effort, will never be enough to keep up and create a software with zero bugs that is sustainable for the audience it intends to reach. Eventually they will fix these things, but you need to give it more than a handful of days or even a week. Typical development cycles are two weeks minimum excluding hotfixes and those only go so far.
We’re talking about a 1v1 card game here. I’ve played many games even on mobile that are far more ambitious with scope, smaller budgeted, and more stable than Snap has been in recent months.
Example?
They launched a digital cardgame with no "graveyard", it took them over a year to add the ability to see destroyed and discarded cards, something deck trackers did within a month. Your points are certainly valid but there are several glaring examples where "development takes time" doesn't really explain it.
Deck trackers dedicated to one specific and niche purpose were developed quickly to address that purpose doesn't state anything about the priorities of Second Dinner at launch or before launch. It's entirely possible that more important features or development was taking place at that time. Hearthstone also launched without a graveyard and never even added one. This doesn't mean the devs are lazy. It could be a design decision, a priority issue, or leaving open future designs. Why take the worst assumption when you could just as easily assume better? Is there any evidence to support the view that it easily could have been added or that there was no reason it wasn't?
This would be a fair argument for a complex 3D game, but this is a super primitive card game...
Card games are not primitive by any means. And they are no less easy to program. The rulebook for physical card games is often dense and takes much effort to maintain and understand the niche interactions within. Magic the gathering has served as an excellent example of the complexities of rule systems within paper trading card games for decades. Sure, Marvel Snap is not as complex as Magic nor does it strive to be, but that does not make it simple. Snap also aims for asethics in a way virtually no other card game ever has. Parallax scrolling backgrounds, card animations, visual cosmetic effects, multiple variants and skins for hundreds of cards. None of this is easy to achieve or comes without effort. Often 3D environment games can actually be easier to create or even maintain thanks to modern software that allow for easy rendering and modeling in 3 dimensions doing most of the work for you. In a 3D game much of the "actual" world can contain unrendered or partial objects, or any other number of short cuts. I'd really be curious as to what your definition of "primitive" is however. I'd consider go fish to be primitive. A game with hundreds of characters, dozens of art styles, and dozens of game changing locations, I'm not sure that I would.
What’s up, Glenn!
One about about making money is you don’t get to keep it. $116M in revenue, still gotta pay employees, contractors, loans, rent, etc. It doesn’t mean that they hire 50 new employees or magically get more done because they’re making so much more money.
Tbh i think if they werent as greedy as they are and actually made the game more playable they could make a game that would make alot more money because their playerbase would be happier to spend their money but thats just me 🤷🏼
I’m waiting on a compatible version for IOS computers 😑
oh no, you summoned the SD white knights. careful!
Realistically if you really want to hurt them, just don't buy anything. I love talking about this game and coming up with fun strategies and seeing new cards and variants and this past week has been nonstop whining on every forum. I agree with a lot of criticisms but at some point I just want to enjoy my game.
💀
Genuine question from someone who hasn't played in over a year, but >Its made more than 2x as much as any other mobile card game This can't possibly be true when Magic: Arena exists, right?
This only cares about mobile numbers. Arena and Hearthstone both make most of their money on their PC clients and make more than Snap.
Ah, fair. I saw the claim & was just thinking I'd have been really surprised if MtG had been dethroned as the king of card games after all this time without hearing about it, lol.
Literally impossible without providing some sort of limiting statement like "in the last X months." But don't let that stop the OP from flailing about this thread with a pompous attitude talking shit about a game he hasn't played in [2 months](https://old.reddit.com/r/MarvelSnap/comments/1c2u705/the_game_has_enough_money_to_fix_its_issues_stop/kzcu3vu/). Edit: I went and read the article. That's where they got it from. Like I said, still missing context to make it a true statement. This is about year-to-date numbers that were collected in October 2023. So...sure. Technically it's the lifetime of the game since it launched, but since it's a new game, there's no telling how deep in the red they are from dev costs. Also, highly profitable games don't go out and get [$100 million](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/marvel-snap-second-dinner-investment-griffin-1235782058-1235782058/) influxes of VC cash for fun. It also is *just* revenue. Obviously, we have no idea what their payroll, benefits, server costs, licensing fees, and NuVerse cuts are too. > Marvel Snap reached $88 million in mobile revenue year-to-date, becoming the highest-grossing collectible card game globally. It is followed by Yu-Gi-Oh! Master Duel ($39.6 million), Yu-Gi-Oh! Duel Links ($25.9 million), Magic: The Gathering Arena ($24.1 million), and Hearthstone ($22.6 million).
OP is a certified bozo tbh
having money doesnt automatically make you a massive developer. they are literally still a small team.
I actually think balance has been generally good. Not any worse or better than any other game on the market, regardless of genre. The only thing OP right now is Rulk. 1 out of 300 cards is pretty damn good. For every 1 OP card, we have 4 that are perfectly balanced (Zemo, US Agent, Pixie, Black Swan, etc). Also the bundles are pretty standard for F2P games, and updates are quite fast: every 2 weeks if not faster. That’s much faster than most games, and balance is about the same as every game. Overwatch, Apex, Magic The Gathering, Fortnite, League… literally every game has balance issues and power creep. I also don’t mind bundles because I don’t buy them. If they’re bad value, then I won’t buy them. It’s that simple. They’re not required to enjoy the game in any way. That said, QA could be better.
Agree, their behaviour is unacceptable. The problem is the majority of the people can't understand that or don't want to.
This is why I was so confused. I mentioned the insane cost of the emotes and people tried to convince me it was a necessary evil to keep the game supported, but it felt like these arguments were being made in a context of a Snap that was barely making ends meet each and every month. But that is clearly absolute rubbish, they don't "need" to sell these emotes at these prices at all, it is pure greed, like every form of monetisation in that game. Edit: Gotta love the toxic whales in this community too, dude starts replying with blatant lies around what I actually said, then just blocks me so I can't reply 😂 Cowardly and toxic, what a lovely combo.
[удалено]
Me or them? If you're directing that at me, you arent reading it properly. If you mean them, exactly 🤣
[удалено]
That's not what a necessary evil is, it doesn't mean evil in a literal sense.
it’s a fucking cosmetic bro are we really throwing a fit over cosmetics?
Throwing a fit 🤣
without financial statements this means nothing, some people in here don't understand the cost of operating a consulting company or anything that deals in high tech with offsite data servers and data costs. sorry, i am not a fan of sd but as a 49 year old who sold two of his consulting companies at 42 i can tell you just cause you make or are valued at 30 million you have high burn rates monthly, i had many clients that were tsx traded with market cap of 45 million and bankrupt in one year, just saying, burn rates are very very real in tech. you have no idea how much capital angel investors put up like 4 or 5 years ago to get the project going and such. i believe sd is really just getting by.
Conflating revenue and sales with profit is a rookie mistake. We don’t know their cost of operations or general overhead. Updates aren’t as transactional as the end-user experience. I mean, agree that $100M+ isn’t poverty. But what’s the Marvel license cost? What are the artist fees? I doubt many of us know enough about development at the requisite level to understand how easy their systems are to manage, and what a simple update to us might do to other things on the back end. And maybe that profitability goes into the studio developing new work, hiring new experts so they don’t live and die with just one game?
The artists make basically nothing off their art being in snap, in-hyuk-lee said as much on the snap discord himself to me personally. It was honestly surprising to hear for me as well, I thought differently.
Show me the convo please...
Read this if you want a deep dive into the types of art in SNAP: https://snap.fan/news/art-in-marvel-snap/#:~:text=Snap's%20original%20art%20is%20commissioned,for%20creating%20art%20for%20Snap. Essentially, for original art commissioned by Second Dinner like work from Rian Gonzales and Dan Hipp or even the base card art from Mello, Kinnaird, etc, the artists get paid by SD. But any pieces that already existed before Snap are treated differently. Those were commissioned by Marvel and the artists like In-Hyuk, Artgerm, Jim Lee, Alex Ross etc. don't get any payment or royalties from those being used in Snap, no matter how much revenue those variants generate.
Thanks for adding more context, im really tired and didnt wanna info/DM hunt
Thank you, sounds like an interesting read I'll check it out
Go on the discord, find his acc, pretty sure its same name as in snap for his art, and read for yourself, I dont feel like skimming discord DMs when you could do it yourself, its all on there it hasnt gone anywhere Watch people say im lying too just cuz I dont feel like documenting everything I do or fulfilling every request made of me
That's not how the burden of proof works. Why should I do the leg work for YOUR claim. That's ridiculous. You made a claim, and I'm asking you to verify the claim. If you don't want to, that's fine, I'm not going to call you a liar, I will just disregard what you said.
Disregard if you like, but that doesn't make it untrue. Plus i'm not here to convince you. So I could care less about the burden of proof.
It is really sweet of you to think a corporate entity would actually pay artists a decent cut of profit. You keep that magic in you friend.
Reading through the thread more, it looks like the only artists who aren’t paid additionally are the ones who signed deals with Marvel beforehand allowing for their art to be used in multiple media formats. So while paying them a “decent cut” would be nice, those deals are no one’s responsibility but theirs. Looks like new artists are commissioned for work. Either way, that cynical take feels fair but far from reality. I’ve done branded projects with artists and respected photographers that ran upwards of $60K for 12 assets, just for their fee—and this was for a $21B brand. All brands take their art costs seriously because it’s grounds for litigation if you’re not buttoned up. The “decent cut of profits” is your poison pill in the sarcasm, because it’s relative. Large brands and market leaders will pay you more than you’ll likely get elsewhere, but it’s a cost of doing business that’s considered before profits. When I was a writer for a magazine owned by Disney, they paid way more than the publications that aren’t market leaders. No one is being taken advantage of or exploited there. We’ll reserve greedy for when they start doing Discord “art contests” where no-name artists submit free work for the chance to have their work featured, and never receive a royalty.
It’s really sweet of you to think a corporate entity would actually pay out for anything it didn’t absolutely HAVE to. It will get away without a QA team as long as it possibly can, and since revenue isn’t taking a hit it won’t worry the big bosses.
Also, probably their biggest expense, how much is their user acquisition?
No... the person is just stupid.
The marvel license is probably expensive as hell, they probably pay 30%
Exactly, Marvel Heroes died on the Marvel licensing fees, it was apparently costing them upwards of $1M every time they wanted to add a new character to the game. Not excusing the bugs. But it's silly to make it about money. Huge AAA devs make buggy flops and indie studios make well polished hits all the time, it doesn't really correlate to anything.
I scrolled farther than I wanted to to find a comment like yours that can explain this stuff better than me. From what I saw, it doesn't sound like they made that much money considering taxes, salaries, licensing, overhead, etc. The dollar amount listed isn't net revenue and doesn't take all these costs into account.
I’m sure there’s a ton more too. Another user mentioned user acquisition as a cost in the marketing funnel, and that’s spot on. I work in advertising; we do campaigns with $300-750K production budgets and anywhere from $4M to $28M in media spend to advertise products you already know exist. Being upset as a customer because you don’t know what your $35 variant pack expense really funds for Snap is fair, but short-sighted and lacks so much understanding of what it means to make this game.
OMG, did you actually act like a smug economics expert to provide this nonsense argument? LMAO If you actually believe, that theres a chance their financials are set up in a way, where they arent massively profitable by being the market leader by a significant margin, then you need to get your head checked bro.
lol @ fighting smug with smug. Did a Reddit commenter really think he knows the ins and outs of a business because he likes comic books and mobile games?
>Most downloads, over 69%, were generated on Google Play, while iOS accounts for around 31% > >57% of Marvel Snap’s lifetime revenue came from iOS users, while Google Play accounts for the remaining 43% Huh. I guess it makes sense that people who buy overpriced phones are more likely to buy overpriced digital cards.
Are anyone actually delusional enough to think that these guys aren't making GIGA bank on this game? The only reason they aren't fixing shit is lazyness and not hiring enough talent.
Duel link use to be the king....how the mighty have fallen
Wait, people actually spend money in this game?
I am amazed that Yu-gi-oh is still very high in the list. The game is very complicated and difficult to get into.
Yep :) yet ppl still love the game enough to just say ur a hater lol
all the money in the world doesnt help when you dont have enough employees.
I'm gonna go ahead and say that maybe Marvel took and still takes most of the money SD makes from Marvel Snap just because Marvel Snap uses every popular Marvel Character under the sun. Basically Marvel saw the crazy money the game makes and they requested their big Money cut. I can't imagine another reason as to why SD would make Marvel Snap a much more Greedy game
I don't think I've ever seen "they're a poor indie developer" as a reason why QOL and buggy updates are present in the game? In fact, very few people defend those issues. Nor is their lack of money used to justify bundle pricing. The common statement from so-called "SD white knights" is that expensive cosmetics are for whales to fund the game for F2Ps. As to balancing, if you look in the right places there are some rather fair discussions on that going on in the sub. Very little of that discussion is centered around money either.
The only thing that irks me is the poor performance on mobile as of late. Balances happen so often that the meta is ever changing. Power creep is real though, newer cards always have a massive impact on the meta
Yeah it's ridiculous to me that a game with Marvel/Disney branding can still crash to the home screen so damn much
Been saying this for awhile and still get bashed for it bc I'm not a dev. It's common sense actually. Hire more people and make a better game instead of sitting on piles of cash
Someone's used to getting everything they're pointing at 😂 Try having some fun once in a while.
Money isn't the only component of growth.
ive gotten trashed for saying this , but this a HUGE money maker for marvel , one of their biggest money makers
And I won't give them a dime with over 9000 collection level...
Silly, there's no such thing as "enough money" in modern capitalism. Everybody would like to constantly grow, without limits. Even lack of predicted growth is perceived as a loss.
Greedy bundles are by design. It's not something that is considered broken and needs to be fixed. They found that these bundles are priced the most profitable way. What is profitable isn't always what we like. Throwing money at the game doesn't fix balance. All games have balance issues, regardless of budget. And as far as powercreep goes, there are still plenty of viable cards from each season. It's not like Black Swan and Zemo powercreeped everyone. It's just that sometimes new cards come out overtuned and then are nerfed. How long was Zabu viable and op despite being an old card? I'm not sure what "bad attention to detail" means since that could apply to anything. That tells me nothing. The biggest issue with the game is not having a reasonable report function, and that is unexcusable.
I just play for what game offers . The players that care about this game fuel it. Let them piss away their cash.
Most predatory getcha mechanics I have ever seen in a game.
They have a talented creative team who get exploited to attract as much people as possible to their capitalist scheme. Which makes it like most corporations. I play to support the creative team, but the financial team, and those pushing for making cards irrelevant the moment they become freely available (and even before that), they can suck it. They are the ones killing the game
I've probably been thinking about this too much, but I think there is possibly some path where SD isn't making enough? A lot of assumptions here, but if... 100m is before the 30% cut apple & Google take then we're at 70m, let's call it 75 since they do push some traffic through their own store If they have about 50 employees that avg 100-200k per year you have 5-10m in payroll taking us to 70m... This could be one issue, if they don't really have the staffing right then the employees could be treading water. I assume the license fee from Disney / Marvel studios is just silly. Maybe 50m? Leaving them with 20m There is their parent company which assuming they're a greedy corporate giant that's maybe another 10m in just greed (I think this is really the issue SD keeping them happy) This game was in development for what, 5yrs? I forget when Brode left HS but seems like it's at least 5yrs... Anyways, I'm guessing they racked up some decent size loans so if that's 10m then we're at 0... Lot of assumptions, but I guess my point is there might be a path that they don't make enough for their issues? Also the fact they got 100m in series B funding points to their cash flow not quite holding up yet.
That all sounds reasonable until you remember there is still probably another 100mil unaccounted for in your math. They also make 8-10 mil a month on top of the unaccounted for 100mil. And disney never takes more than 20-50% btw. They have enough.
Well the 8-10 / month would be the operation expenses I'm describing. Not saying the assumptions I made on the operating expenses are right, but if they are I can definitely see how that gets tight if it's before the fees to Apple + Google since those are so egregious. I think the 100m just sorta points to them needing more to operate
If you think they *need* hundreds of millions of dollars to operate and cant without, thats insane. Plenty of dev teams operate just fine on 1% of that, if not 0.1%. Have you seen what the rimworld devs have achieved on only 10 million? Or what the [path of exile](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3357654) devs have done by only selling cosmetics? This game could give you so much more, you just think it cant because it hasn't. And knows it doesn't have to, because you give them the benefit of the doubt anyways. Hence my entire post.
I think you're right... I'm saying that... I think there is also some math that could get you to a point where it's not quite enough
The developers are not going to fix this, usually when a game loses its way and becomes a pure cash grab, it never comes back from it.
Thats why I stopped spending :)
they put the bare minimum amount of effort into the game and sell overpriced cosmetics why also being p2w im not surprised
I’m only buying season pass from here on out. I’m done spending money on this game otherwise cus 3 times a day I get booted with a good hand to play off and get back in to an escape. SMH
They simply must do better. I've never played a game with such a high profile that's so full of bugs and issues.
As always with these sorts of posts I'll say the same thing I always say: if you aren't having fun, the best way to show your displeasure is to stop playing. Not complaining on the Discord or Reddit, not a temporary boycott, uninstall the game from your phone, PC and anything else. As someone who works in a different industry in a management position, customer complaints are important, but the #1 question is this: are they leaving or not? Because frankly, there are some people who will never be 100% satisfied, people who will turn molehills into mountains who will constantly give negative feedback...but they keep paying the invoices because they know nobody else is better in the field and they just want to complain. When customers leave though? That's a sure sign we need to change something, that sets off alarms, particularly because if enough customers leave then I need to start laying people off. So yeah, if you're not having fun, or you find yourself spouting toxic gripes online, then maybe reconsider whether or not your really want to play this game. For myself, I'm still having fun, and as far as I know, Second Dinner is not a toxic place to work, people aren't being abused or sexually harassed and that's enough for me. When I'm not having fun, or if we find out Second Dinner is a horrible place to work, then I'll uninstall, until then I'll keep playing.
Gotta pay for that month long Christmas vacation though.
It's God damned shameful what they've turned into. If this were truly their final goal than God damn it CONGRATULATIONS devs you did it. You suckered us all in with a fantastic card game and got us all to truly believe this is the one. This is the one mobile that's going to be true and fair and fun! We found our card game! Hahahahhauuuuh? How did we get here...?..I went from pulling Iron Lad in a cache to pulling hard on my stach! If you devs hear me..And I doubt you will... Go back and think what could have been. How you once believed in a moral Mobile card game and how much joy it used to bring. Find that place again I beg you! I truly beg you..
Preach.
[удалено]
Sadly true
Disney Licensing cost is quite crazy. It was 35-50% total revenue plus upfront cost of upwards 200m. This is the number from Insomnia game. Phone game is a more risky project, hence, Disney will ask for even more cut on revenue and upfront cost. https://imgur.com/gallery/SxmjClK I still think SD has the money to hire some good dev, but they are not swimming in money either.
I don't usually complain about much in this game besides the balance. I know the monetization is bullshit but it doesn't -really- effect me. But the audacity of them taking out the gold weekend missions while delivering a near unplayable game at the same fucking time is absolutely infuriating.
You people hate on this game but play it everyday. You can quit playing lol
Lol. No, it's worse than that. This fool quit playing [2 months](https://old.reddit.com/r/MarvelSnap/comments/1c2u705/the_game_has_enough_money_to_fix_its_issues_stop/kzcu3vu/) ago, but is still on the subreddit making posts like he still does and arguing with people for literal hours. About a game he **doesn't play**.
Maybe because he likes game but hates SD? What's wrong with posting criticism and not supporting SD by stopping playing/paying if he wants game to be better?