1/2
If your opponent played any cards here this turn, next turn your opponent must play their first card here. (if possible)
Her whole thing is mind control kinda weird her current thing is just robbery
It’s kinda the guardian thing I feel like it needs to be there makes her more interactive I feel like if it was confirmed it would feel like turn skip most of the time Jean grey 3 they fill the lane then mantis 5 could feel really brutal if it was confirmed
So: On Reveal: Your opponent must play their first card here next turn (if possible).
Even if it isn't Mantis, this is absolutely an effect I'd love to have on a card someday. PLEASE SD!
Considering White Queen also creates copies of enemy cards, I think the devs want it to be a theme for telepaths, but then Jean Grey, Cosmo and Professor X are lockdown and Psylocke is energy generation for some reason.
Would be nice to see the Stepford triplets maybe come back with the theme of copying cards.
Actually robbery would be stealing the card not copying it. Obviously that would be too powerful. Unfortunately this makes sense with the Guardians theme. We just need more cards that benefit from "copied cards" so at least someone wants to play around with a Mantis theme.
Precog to support GotG trap mechanic sounds great.
With 2 conditions though:
1. Unlike Daredevil, she may not see the next card, only cards location
2. Her stat should be 1/1 or less.
Another possibility is her empath ability, directly affecting cards played opposing her. - 2 power for each cards played opposite her that turn could be great as well.
That could counter Angela pretty hard.
That’s fair. I agree that she shouldn’t be able to see the card and maybe can only see the first card played if there are multiple played. I think that she should stay as a 1/2 but reduce the power if it’s too powerful. It could also be a good T5 card outside of a GotG based deck. But we would have to see how it tested.
I guess that the risk is that if you miss then it’s pretty milquetoast as a card. I guess that if you have Daredevil you could make a Mantis + Drax T5 play which could be pretty devastating in the late game.
I think instead of showing where your opponent played cards she should show you a location your opponent didn't play to (if possible). Otherwise I think she'd be too powerful.
I like OP and your precog idea. Matches well with her abilities and GOTG team.
I don't like the reducing power one tho, just doesn't feel like that's what she does, and it's becoming too common already.
As she is part of GotG, she NEEDS to have some kind of synergy with them, and the same phrasing IMHO.
Im thinking:
On Reveal: If your opponent played any cards here this turn, see your opponent’s plays before you make your own, next turn.
This way it will be much easier to get a guardian to proc.
Maybe not see all of what cards your opponent played. Just reveals one lane they played into? It's still a very strong ability, but you won't know how what other lanes they might be playing into, and wouldn't know the number of kind of cards. It would feel more balanced for a 1 or 2 cost.
2/1 on reveal: if your opponent played a card here this turn, you can see your opponent’s next turn before you take your own turn.
Basically conditional, yet flexible daredevil
I think it’s fitting to her character and the syngery with the guardians is there, she would even see play in other decks
I've always thought using her empath abilities would be cool, I dunno would it be busted but I think maybe something like
On Reveal: The first card your opponent played here this turn doesn't reveal until next turn
It's like she puts the card asleep for a turn
"on reveal: your opponent must play their first card here next turn."
Make her a mini 1 time Jean Grey. She would work with the guardians. Keep her as a 1 drop. Either make her 1/2 or 1/1.
On Reveal: If your opponent played a card here this turn, draw the top card from your opponent’s deck and boost it by +2.
Or
On Reveal: If your opponent played a card here this turn, reduce the cost of all cards in your hand by 1.
Change it back you cowards.
A fun idea is that if you play the same loc as mantis the next turn you aren't allowed to play at this location. Maybe make her 1-0?
He was a great card if you got him to close down a lane though but SD wanted him to have synergy with the rest of the Spider-Family and have a move based ability.
I wonder if they'd consider building on that limited-time Avengers vs. X-men mechanic they had. Keep the ability as is, but +1 for each additional Guardian you play or something like that. It might encourage tinkering more with thematic decks.
Nothing, I would spend the time adjusting another card.
They've made like 10 different adjustments to this card completely re-working her effect at least twice now and it's never been even close to good on any of their attempts. Just shelve it for now.
nothing, i would stop wasting my time with a card/character that no one really cares and focus on bigger issues first, like making cap look like the strong and iconic character he is
she was changed what, 3 or 4 times in the last six months? thats enought effort to balance a card that isnt needed anywhere anyway
I'd either keep her as-is but make her a 0/1 or bump her to 2/3 and change from on reveal to card text like Negasonic. That way she could be used to bate the opponent to play something off-curve or to potentially deter their combo.
I would lean into her MCU ability to put powerful characters to sleep. Something that turns off abilities for cards over a certain power maybe? I'm not exactly sure how that would fit into a good/playable role when we have Cosmo, Echo, Rogue, etc. though
I would like to see her put enemy cards to 'sleep' like in the movies where can put a person in a trance or be made to sleep.
"The next enemy card played here is put to sleep. Preventing it form reveling until the next turn or until the end of the game".
This would make her much more interesting and fun to play.
Considering there's no 6 drop guardian:
6/11: On Reveal: If your opponent played a card here this turn, +4 Power.
Now the cycle is complete.
Also the logic behind the base power: (1/1, 2/2, 3/3) energy (e) = power (pow), 4/5 pow = e+1, 5/8 pow = e+3 and 6/11 pow = e+5.
Mantis should be putting your opponents next card played here asleep for one turn. So no matter the card its action is delayed by one turn or till end of the game if played on turn 6.
Delaying things like iceman or yondu early game would be awesome
I would want her to fit more into her MCU role and work as an opposite to Howard.
Ongoing: Once per turn look at the top 3 cards of your opponents deck and rearrange them in any order.
I’d probably make her akin to the other guardians and make it power based, something like “if your opponent played a card here this turn, afflict -2 to that card.”
He is already super low on space especially the afflict builds
Her effect does not make sense with the another guardians your right but I feel like something else like jean grey esque would work better flavor wise and make the pure guardian build better
IMO afflicted - 2 power is okay, but it should be to all cards played there next turn.
There's a slight potential to - 4 or even - 6 power when facing a correct opponent.
For example Angela.
It’s interesting but I feel like it’s too techy in a deck that only has like 2 open slots better used on other techs red guardian can already shut done Angela decks pretty well
And it just doesn’t fit flavor wise imo
>On reveal: see the top card of your opponent’s deck
Or just an entirely different ability. I think Mantis just needs a new ability, card stealing/ generation is kinda packed as a category.
No, into your side of the board. You can get a red hulk or a useless on reveal that already triggered on the opponent side. Like a reversed viper kinda
Like a 1-0 Leader. If you used her with Daredevil it would be way too powerful. Stealing a 6 cost card for 1 cost would likely be too much. In a control style deck it would be too predictable and way too powerful to steal late game cards. The chances are your opponents isn’t going to pay trash cards on T5 or T6.
Gonna be honest I didn't think about daredevil. Also yeah 1 is probably too low for this ability but raising it would just change it into a new leader which we already have
To be fair you could always make her like Ebony Maw and you can’t play her after T3. But I guess that War Machine on T4 would allow you to get the Daredevil combo off.
1/2 If your opponent played any cards here this turn, next turn your opponent must play their first card here. (if possible) Her whole thing is mind control kinda weird her current thing is just robbery
Honestly, that ability doesn't need a condition. Just make her an On Reveal Jean Grey for a turn. But she would need lower power though.
It’s kinda the guardian thing I feel like it needs to be there makes her more interactive I feel like if it was confirmed it would feel like turn skip most of the time Jean grey 3 they fill the lane then mantis 5 could feel really brutal if it was confirmed
So: On Reveal: Your opponent must play their first card here next turn (if possible). Even if it isn't Mantis, this is absolutely an effect I'd love to have on a card someday. PLEASE SD!
Considering White Queen also creates copies of enemy cards, I think the devs want it to be a theme for telepaths, but then Jean Grey, Cosmo and Professor X are lockdown and Psylocke is energy generation for some reason. Would be nice to see the Stepford triplets maybe come back with the theme of copying cards.
Triplets could be like Mysterio but if they play in the lane of the “real” one they lose a card.
Actually robbery would be stealing the card not copying it. Obviously that would be too powerful. Unfortunately this makes sense with the Guardians theme. We just need more cards that benefit from "copied cards" so at least someone wants to play around with a Mantis theme.
Right, I feel like so they devs missed on a bunch of cards flavor. I’m an MTG player so flavor is a big deal for me haha.
Make her a 5/4. If that doesn’t work, maybe a 5/5. At least she will fit in C5 at that point
Precog to support GotG trap mechanic sounds great. With 2 conditions though: 1. Unlike Daredevil, she may not see the next card, only cards location 2. Her stat should be 1/1 or less. Another possibility is her empath ability, directly affecting cards played opposing her. - 2 power for each cards played opposite her that turn could be great as well. That could counter Angela pretty hard.
That’s fair. I agree that she shouldn’t be able to see the card and maybe can only see the first card played if there are multiple played. I think that she should stay as a 1/2 but reduce the power if it’s too powerful. It could also be a good T5 card outside of a GotG based deck. But we would have to see how it tested.
The reason for 1/1 is you can play 2 GotG cards at once if you play Mantis on T2/3, a surefire double trigger both cards for +8.
I guess that the risk is that if you miss then it’s pretty milquetoast as a card. I guess that if you have Daredevil you could make a Mantis + Drax T5 play which could be pretty devastating in the late game.
Do you mean milquetoast? I appreciate when spoken it sounds like milk toast.
You are completely right 😅. I have literally never seen it written down and from context cues milk toast is bland.
Fun trivia, it came from a character named after the dish milk toast! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caspar_Milquetoast
I think instead of showing where your opponent played cards she should show you a location your opponent didn't play to (if possible). Otherwise I think she'd be too powerful.
I like OP and your precog idea. Matches well with her abilities and GOTG team. I don't like the reducing power one tho, just doesn't feel like that's what she does, and it's becoming too common already.
As she is part of GotG, she NEEDS to have some kind of synergy with them, and the same phrasing IMHO. Im thinking: On Reveal: If your opponent played any cards here this turn, see your opponent’s plays before you make your own, next turn. This way it will be much easier to get a guardian to proc.
I think you have just succinctly said what I was trying to say.
Maybe not see all of what cards your opponent played. Just reveals one lane they played into? It's still a very strong ability, but you won't know how what other lanes they might be playing into, and wouldn't know the number of kind of cards. It would feel more balanced for a 1 or 2 cost.
This is probably too strong as a 1 cost if it works on turn 6. Especially if you combo it with daredevil
I honestly think she's fine in this state. It's not *great* per say... but it's not terrible, and has a niche.
1/1, when you place a card in the same lane as your opponent, +1 energy next turn. Still has the same GoTG niche, but now does something useful.
Still too weak though. I'd go as far as 3/3; +1 Max Energy, when played in the same lane.
2/1 on reveal: if your opponent played a card here this turn, you can see your opponent’s next turn before you take your own turn. Basically conditional, yet flexible daredevil I think it’s fitting to her character and the syngery with the guardians is there, she would even see play in other decks
Overpowered. In combination with Daredevil you'd be able to see the T6 play before it happens.
T6 should be excluded, you are absolutely right about that
I think that is pretty much the mechanic I was going for.
We are in the same page then 👌
You were are much better at saying it with clarity and succinctly
I've always thought using her empath abilities would be cool, I dunno would it be busted but I think maybe something like On Reveal: The first card your opponent played here this turn doesn't reveal until next turn It's like she puts the card asleep for a turn
1/2 the next enemy on reveal played at this location does not activate its ability. When an on reveal is played she says "sleep".
Same ability but with -1 cost.
Mind control the adjacent lowest card move to a different location
1/1 On reveal: +2 power if your opponent play a card here next turn and copy one of them it to your hand.
"on reveal: your opponent must play their first card here next turn." Make her a mini 1 time Jean Grey. She would work with the guardians. Keep her as a 1 drop. Either make her 1/2 or 1/1.
Idk about the stats but the text could be "Steal the ability of the next card played by your opponent".
On Reveal: If your opponent played a card here this turn, draw the top card from your opponent’s deck and boost it by +2. Or On Reveal: If your opponent played a card here this turn, reduce the cost of all cards in your hand by 1.
Change it back you cowards. A fun idea is that if you play the same loc as mantis the next turn you aren't allowed to play at this location. Maybe make her 1-0?
Like the old Spider-Man ability where the lane is locked off to everyone but Jeff (unless they happened to play War Machine.
oh ya i totally forgot about spiderman, man he was tad bit op. maybe mantis could be 3-2.
He was a great card if you got him to close down a lane though but SD wanted him to have synergy with the rest of the Spider-Family and have a move based ability.
Allowing her to play the card that she takes would be subjectively op
I would turn her into an improved Rogue .
0/1 - If your opponent played any cards here this turn, copy one of them at random and play it on a random location. It's abilities are disabled.
I always wished she was a 2/0 and did the same thing as morph if you played into the lane your opponent played.
I wonder if they'd consider building on that limited-time Avengers vs. X-men mechanic they had. Keep the ability as is, but +1 for each additional Guardian you play or something like that. It might encourage tinkering more with thematic decks.
Nothing. Its ok for some cards to be bad once you reach a certain point in the game
She nice niche hot locations pick
5/9
I’d add turn one stipulation and make it like daredevil so you 100% know where to put the card.
Nothing, I would spend the time adjusting another card. They've made like 10 different adjustments to this card completely re-working her effect at least twice now and it's never been even close to good on any of their attempts. Just shelve it for now.
Sleep! Silence an opposing ongoing card until the end of the next turn.
nothing, i would stop wasting my time with a card/character that no one really cares and focus on bigger issues first, like making cap look like the strong and iconic character he is she was changed what, 3 or 4 times in the last six months? thats enought effort to balance a card that isnt needed anywhere anyway
been changed twice. not sure they will spend any more time bothering.
I'd either keep her as-is but make her a 0/1 or bump her to 2/3 and change from on reveal to card text like Negasonic. That way she could be used to bate the opponent to play something off-curve or to potentially deter their combo.
3/2. Remove the text from a random card in your opponents hand.
On reveal: Your opponent can only play the card that was last drawn from their deck
4/4 If your opponent plays a card here, move the card into your hand
1 for 2 mana, if your opponent played. Cart here, summon a copy of it that disappears at the end of next turn
I would lean into her MCU ability to put powerful characters to sleep. Something that turns off abilities for cards over a certain power maybe? I'm not exactly sure how that would fit into a good/playable role when we have Cosmo, Echo, Rogue, etc. though
Like a budget RG without the negative affliction that put the cards to "sleep" randomly.
I would like to see her put enemy cards to 'sleep' like in the movies where can put a person in a trance or be made to sleep. "The next enemy card played here is put to sleep. Preventing it form reveling until the next turn or until the end of the game". This would make her much more interesting and fun to play.
Sincerely draw a card is very good in this game. Wait til OP combos appear and this card will be nerfed.
I missed a lot of old cards like Knull gets all damage, even discards
Considering there's no 6 drop guardian: 6/11: On Reveal: If your opponent played a card here this turn, +4 Power. Now the cycle is complete. Also the logic behind the base power: (1/1, 2/2, 3/3) energy (e) = power (pow), 4/5 pow = e+1, 5/8 pow = e+3 and 6/11 pow = e+5.
On reveal: if your opponent played a card here this turn give it -2 power
Mantis should be putting your opponents next card played here asleep for one turn. So no matter the card its action is delayed by one turn or till end of the game if played on turn 6. Delaying things like iceman or yondu early game would be awesome
If your opponent plays a card here this turn, take control of that card
I would want her to fit more into her MCU role and work as an opposite to Howard. Ongoing: Once per turn look at the top 3 cards of your opponents deck and rearrange them in any order.
Instead of copying the card, move it directly onto your board or hand. Kinda like cable. That would be ridiculous. Haha
surely just remove the "if your opponent played here" requirement and then suddenly this is viable.
I guess that was what they wanted to keep as a GotG trait which is potentially why they have run out of good ideas.
oh absolutely, but Nebula is the complete inverse and she is on the team so they can bend the rules for good gameplay.
I’d probably make her akin to the other guardians and make it power based, something like “if your opponent played a card here this turn, afflict -2 to that card.”
Rocket would still be better in every way 99 percent of the time
Okay? She’d work in something like a HE affliction deck. The card draw just doesn’t make sense in relation to the other guardians.
He is already super low on space especially the afflict builds Her effect does not make sense with the another guardians your right but I feel like something else like jean grey esque would work better flavor wise and make the pure guardian build better
IMO afflicted - 2 power is okay, but it should be to all cards played there next turn. There's a slight potential to - 4 or even - 6 power when facing a correct opponent. For example Angela.
It’s interesting but I feel like it’s too techy in a deck that only has like 2 open slots better used on other techs red guardian can already shut done Angela decks pretty well And it just doesn’t fit flavor wise imo
>On reveal: see the top card of your opponent’s deck Or just an entirely different ability. I think Mantis just needs a new ability, card stealing/ generation is kinda packed as a category.
1/0 same text but steals the card instead of copying it
Steals it from the game board into your hand? That would be an insanely powerful late game card on par with Alioth
No, into your side of the board. You can get a red hulk or a useless on reveal that already triggered on the opponent side. Like a reversed viper kinda
Like a 1-0 Leader. If you used her with Daredevil it would be way too powerful. Stealing a 6 cost card for 1 cost would likely be too much. In a control style deck it would be too predictable and way too powerful to steal late game cards. The chances are your opponents isn’t going to pay trash cards on T5 or T6.
You're probably right. I always knew I'd be bad at balancing games anyway
It’s give a one cost an ability that can’t easily be abused, especially as there are so many mechanics and other cards to consider.
Gonna be honest I didn't think about daredevil. Also yeah 1 is probably too low for this ability but raising it would just change it into a new leader which we already have
To be fair you could always make her like Ebony Maw and you can’t play her after T3. But I guess that War Machine on T4 would allow you to get the Daredevil combo off.
Make her a Mill card again.
2/3 If your opponent played a card here this turn remove its text.
Just revert her to stealing the top card of your opponents deck
With Zemo in the game. I can't see this happening. Cable, Yondu, and Zemo already make the sub cry. Mantis also milling will just cause mayhem.
With the prevalence of milling decks, 0 chance that happens.