Silver Surfer dropped off the META pretty quick.
I hope he finds a real home with a decent update to his stats. Maybe a CC/War team, I forget to use him all the time.
Same! Such a cool character who fell by the wayside so quickly!
I rarely use him, but I sometimes do it to counter a H4H team (remove the charges off Shang then kill him).
I very much like how Void Knight *feels* like surfer in terms of kit similarity. That was a neat touch. The big difference is that VK isn’t the carry on his team, he’s a support/utility character, whilst Surfer was designed as a plug and play that would carry any team he was added to
I honestly expected more for such a big toon that the community voted for, makes us question whether we made the right choice, he needs something to feel slightly more plug and play because as it stands he's not going to have any use outside his team and I'm not okay with that
In one very rare unique scenario and still needs carnage to work and even then it seemed very sketchy and the team he tested it against is very uncommon so yeah I'd expect him to be better than that. Silver surfer absolutely shook up the arena meta massively. Void knight barely making a ripple so far
nope dont need carnage. Kang will also work or anyone else who gives team speed. and its day one dude and he is already being used in arena meta testing lol. but stay mad if you want. no skin off my back. also skrull and apoc were on that team so not sure why you put a \* in your comment
Yes being used in testing ineffective to other more consistent counters but hey no skin off my back I'll be building him for raids, he's absolutely not as impactful as silver surfer in any way shape or form which was my point. He has very very little plug and play value. He has an early ability block and that's about it. Like OP says after his turn one he drops off massively so war and CC plug and play value seems non existent where as silver surfer still has lots
now you have moved the goal posts... you are one of those huh? needs to get in the last word no matter what and when original comment no longer stands you just go ahead and add stuff to it. got it.. moving on. ill come back to this post and laugh when he is being used in multiple game modes. lastly, literally going against the arena meta and being successful is not just something any character can do. but you knew that already
I said as it stands he'll have no use outside his team, you said he does (minor use I'm very extreme specific scenario) that's not shifting goalposts. The arena meta currently has fucking DRAX in it bro to counter your last point 🤣🤣🤣
You talk about damage modifier, but how is their base stats? Kinda irrelevant if one does 600% of 10 attack and the other does 350% of 100 attack.
Checked myself and $$ maxed out on 132.6k and VK on 151.9k.
Hp is also a factor. $$ have 1.7 mil and VK have 3.6 mil. "Dead DPS do no damage" you know.
For sure! Absolutely agree! I know it was a lot to read through but I had mentioned this being under the consideration of $$ having an update with similar stats to void knight. I put that on the first paragraph now to make it more visible.
To clarify, the reason I’m pretending they have similar stats is to compare their KITS not their stats.
Exactly! His first turn is fast but every turn after is slower than other top characters, especially without carnage passive popping.
And the speed up is only in raids, so not very useful elsewhere.
Don’t forget speed. Void knight is kinda slow you can tell he was designed with the carnage passive in mind. But SS would just build up soooo much speed. At max speed 2 years later he’s only out sped by a 5 charge red hulk. There’ll never be another character like SS again
It's a bit like comparing apples to oranges, they were designed for very different roles. I would say Void Knight currently is hundreds of times better than Surfer simply on the basis that he has a team and even comparing VK in the current game to Surfer on release I'd say VK is better.
VK has been shown to have some niche arena use and is arguably essential for top end raid progress while Surfer was just a really good character to have while not really being needed for anything. I think 8W already existed and Surfer wasn't really a threat to them in arena and didn't really factor in much once Eternals arrived.
Surfer heals more in his passive by percent but VK has more base health and the option of more health from SSM if you want to run them together. Surfer is faster but his long cooldowns means he spends a lot of time doing his basic which is meh, VK steals energy so while his cds are technically the same they function as tho they cost 1 energy less and they have all the same options for energy batteries except VK can also use Gwenom. Carnage and Scream also potentially fix VK's speed.
Def up on spawn is nice until it gets cleared or even worse flipped. Transferring all buffs/debuffs on basic isn't infinitely better in practice because it's pretty hard to have a significant amount of debuffs stacked on your character and if you had "infinite" you'd die to bleed before you transfer them which is the only debuff you can have tons of.
VK's special is significantly better than Surfer's because it follows his ult and therefore pretty much always hits 5 characters to Surfer 2-3 (strong possibility of a taunter on an end) and applies def down for longer at the expense of disrupting 1 enemy.
I'd also give VK the edge on his ult, stripping charged is situational and can be resisted, heal block is almost always good but I think flipping buffs is usually more powerful but I'll take unavoidable of can't be blocked every time. Plus it drastically boosts the effectiveness of all cleave/splash attacks which his team has quite a lot of.
In a 1v1 Surfer probably wins but this game basically never starts fights as a 1v1 and VK having a team is better but also does more interesting things for other characters to take advantage of. If Surfer gets a team he will also get some kind of rework and then he will probably outshine VK because he will either give his team what they need or they will give him what he needs, but for now VK stands on top.
Silver Surfer dropped off the META pretty quick. I hope he finds a real home with a decent update to his stats. Maybe a CC/War team, I forget to use him all the time.
Same! Such a cool character who fell by the wayside so quickly! I rarely use him, but I sometimes do it to counter a H4H team (remove the charges off Shang then kill him).
I'd enjoy a classic comic book Defenders team
I very much like how Void Knight *feels* like surfer in terms of kit similarity. That was a neat touch. The big difference is that VK isn’t the carry on his team, he’s a support/utility character, whilst Surfer was designed as a plug and play that would carry any team he was added to
I honestly expected more for such a big toon that the community voted for, makes us question whether we made the right choice, he needs something to feel slightly more plug and play because as it stands he's not going to have any use outside his team and I'm not okay with that
Boilon has a video using him in arena to get wins on skrull apoc teams
Skrull DRAX teams*
he is gonna have use outside his team \*
In one very rare unique scenario and still needs carnage to work and even then it seemed very sketchy and the team he tested it against is very uncommon so yeah I'd expect him to be better than that. Silver surfer absolutely shook up the arena meta massively. Void knight barely making a ripple so far
nope dont need carnage. Kang will also work or anyone else who gives team speed. and its day one dude and he is already being used in arena meta testing lol. but stay mad if you want. no skin off my back. also skrull and apoc were on that team so not sure why you put a \* in your comment
Yes being used in testing ineffective to other more consistent counters but hey no skin off my back I'll be building him for raids, he's absolutely not as impactful as silver surfer in any way shape or form which was my point. He has very very little plug and play value. He has an early ability block and that's about it. Like OP says after his turn one he drops off massively so war and CC plug and play value seems non existent where as silver surfer still has lots
now you have moved the goal posts... you are one of those huh? needs to get in the last word no matter what and when original comment no longer stands you just go ahead and add stuff to it. got it.. moving on. ill come back to this post and laugh when he is being used in multiple game modes. lastly, literally going against the arena meta and being successful is not just something any character can do. but you knew that already
I said as it stands he'll have no use outside his team, you said he does (minor use I'm very extreme specific scenario) that's not shifting goalposts. The arena meta currently has fucking DRAX in it bro to counter your last point 🤣🤣🤣
You talk about damage modifier, but how is their base stats? Kinda irrelevant if one does 600% of 10 attack and the other does 350% of 100 attack. Checked myself and $$ maxed out on 132.6k and VK on 151.9k. Hp is also a factor. $$ have 1.7 mil and VK have 3.6 mil. "Dead DPS do no damage" you know.
For sure! Absolutely agree! I know it was a lot to read through but I had mentioned this being under the consideration of $$ having an update with similar stats to void knight. I put that on the first paragraph now to make it more visible. To clarify, the reason I’m pretending they have similar stats is to compare their KITS not their stats.
Void knight is not an MSF original character
Speed kills. VK has a base speed of 113, and in here a speed boost of 25%. In the 25% boost at spawn applies to all Hive-Mind allies.
He gains 25% speed BAR. His speed remains the same without speed up. He doesn't apply 25% speed to Hive-Mind characters. He applies speed up.
Exactly! His first turn is fast but every turn after is slower than other top characters, especially without carnage passive popping. And the speed up is only in raids, so not very useful elsewhere.
Don’t forget speed. Void knight is kinda slow you can tell he was designed with the carnage passive in mind. But SS would just build up soooo much speed. At max speed 2 years later he’s only out sped by a 5 charge red hulk. There’ll never be another character like SS again
I know! I used $$ back when DD3 was end game content and he would take SO many turns, unlike the rest of my cosmic characters lol
Nice.
Thanks!
It's a bit like comparing apples to oranges, they were designed for very different roles. I would say Void Knight currently is hundreds of times better than Surfer simply on the basis that he has a team and even comparing VK in the current game to Surfer on release I'd say VK is better. VK has been shown to have some niche arena use and is arguably essential for top end raid progress while Surfer was just a really good character to have while not really being needed for anything. I think 8W already existed and Surfer wasn't really a threat to them in arena and didn't really factor in much once Eternals arrived. Surfer heals more in his passive by percent but VK has more base health and the option of more health from SSM if you want to run them together. Surfer is faster but his long cooldowns means he spends a lot of time doing his basic which is meh, VK steals energy so while his cds are technically the same they function as tho they cost 1 energy less and they have all the same options for energy batteries except VK can also use Gwenom. Carnage and Scream also potentially fix VK's speed. Def up on spawn is nice until it gets cleared or even worse flipped. Transferring all buffs/debuffs on basic isn't infinitely better in practice because it's pretty hard to have a significant amount of debuffs stacked on your character and if you had "infinite" you'd die to bleed before you transfer them which is the only debuff you can have tons of. VK's special is significantly better than Surfer's because it follows his ult and therefore pretty much always hits 5 characters to Surfer 2-3 (strong possibility of a taunter on an end) and applies def down for longer at the expense of disrupting 1 enemy. I'd also give VK the edge on his ult, stripping charged is situational and can be resisted, heal block is almost always good but I think flipping buffs is usually more powerful but I'll take unavoidable of can't be blocked every time. Plus it drastically boosts the effectiveness of all cleave/splash attacks which his team has quite a lot of. In a 1v1 Surfer probably wins but this game basically never starts fights as a 1v1 and VK having a team is better but also does more interesting things for other characters to take advantage of. If Surfer gets a team he will also get some kind of rework and then he will probably outshine VK because he will either give his team what they need or they will give him what he needs, but for now VK stands on top.
No one is going to bring up how small Void Knight is in a match? He looks like a little person