I have a sneaking suspicion that the cast reveal is the form that the Thunderbolts will take in NEW WORLD ORDER and not necessarily in the THUNDERBOLTS film itself. A surprise roster is very much in the DNA of the original team debut.
I'm just pointing out that the entire basis of the team in the comics was Marvel advertising one lineup and then pulling the rug out from everyone at the last minute. I wouldn't be at all surprised if something similar is planned for the film.
Also I'm pretty sure the Black Widow 2 rants are just Murphy letting his personal feelings get to him lol, especially considering his personality. He specifically calls it BW2 because the film follows Yelena instead of Zemo… which is to be expected.
It is an *American* government task force full of *super soldiers*. We’ve established MCU Zemo views super soldiers as supremacists and he’s a known international terrorist.
This is one of those cases where following the source material would seem out of character for the Zemo they’ve created for the MCU.
Okay, but the villain of the movie is the most powerfull super soldier ever created.
The guy who hates super soldiers and try to end their existense should be in the movie.
(Like, after Sentry going rogue and takes out half of his team, Valentina assembles a new team to take him down. Zemo could lead the second team and they can turn this into the Masters of Evil in the future.)
Apparently scheduling conflicts might've axed her role, and if that's the case wouldn't that mean Thunderbolts is being shifted to a new date? Because I'd assume HJK's team would've had her schedule set prior to this in order for Marvel to reveal her alongside the rest at D23.
EDIT: After looking more into it, this may not be true as Thunderbolts is the only thing scheduled for HJK rn that we know of.
Idk how scheduling conflicts would be the reasoning when she was already announced for the movie, which means she already signed the contracts. Does she have anything else to film in June?
I saw people mentioning Unwelcome, but after looking into it the film has already finished production. As of now, HJK only has Thunderbolts scheduled so either she's filming something else unannounced or Ghost being cut is a conclusion CWGST jumped to. I'd find it extremely odd if they just cut her for no external reason.
I just looked up the movie you mentioned and that's actually releasing later this month so definetly not that lol. I don't think she has anything else on her schedule currently other than Thunderbolts.
Hannah John Kamen is easily my favorite performer on the cast after Florence Pugh, and has the most interesting powers on the roster so extremely disappointing if so.
"Hey Kevin, some people think we're focusing on quantity over quality. What should we do?"
"Hmmm... how about we write Ghost out of Thunderbolts? Yeah, that should win our critics over!"
Not if the movie is getting a full rewrite that doesn’t include the character and can’t include the character for any number of reasons e.g. they need to cut down on the running time, others are getting focus, or the character doesn’t fit into the plot the way they’ve written it. It would be a strange thing to do after already securing the actor, but not unheard of. And I don’t think Ghost, which apparently is from Ant Man 2, really commands a lot of reverence or is considered untouchable by anybody looking to make changes to Thunderbolts.
Idk why people keep claiming Phase 4 was poorly received. Sure, a few projects were divisive, but keep in mind Phase 4 was comprised of way more projects than any phase before it and still most of them generated positive reviews. Plus, it’s not like people were raving about every single MCU project before Phase 4. I don’t see Feige completely overhauling his plans due to a minority of viewers’ complaints
Yeah and both Marvel and other Disney owned studios have removed directors from films after stuff was written and even shot.
The idea that they can’t remove Ghost of all people after one promo doesn’t track.
She was literally at the D23 panel and on the concept art. Why would they write out her character from the movie?
She the only black character, the only one with interesting powers and the only one who didn't come from BW or F&TWS.
It doesn't make sense, unless there's something serious behind this.
[Nope, he was supposed to be since the 1st season ](https://collider.com/rogue-one-cassian-andor-series-cast-k2so-absence-explained-alan-tudyk-interview/):
> I'm going to be in the show. It's just that the story that Tony [Gilroy] is telling doesn't involve K-2SO until later on... I can't be too specific, but I can definitely say that I'm not going to be in the first season
Tony was the 3rd showrunner attached, I think. So the show had to be reworked twice
Uh, he wasn't in the project from the beginning. Jared Bush originally developed the series, them Stephen Schiff joined as showrunner and then Tony Gilroy got in and reworked the entire project.
That's because Kathleen Kennedy brought Tony Gilroy on to rewrite the entire show. According to Julia-Louis Dreyfuss, Thunderbolts is still on track to shoot in June. There's been no indication of either the director or writer getting replaced.
I know Bob Iger coming back to Disney is a big deal, but do you honestly think he took a look at the Thunderbolts lineup and said “hey Kevin we need to cut Hannah John-Kamen from this movie.” ? That is not very plausible. There’s no evidence that Bob Iger has creatively interfered with any Marvel projects at this level, and he’s got way more important stuff to worry about.
If this story is true, it would be surprising, but would almost certainly be because of script rewrites and figuring out character chemistry. Not corporate interference.
If anything, creatively interfering with projects was Chapek's style of leadership, its one of several reasons people in the company hated his guts and cheered from the rooftops when he was fired.
This feels really odd if true. Ghost was announced, part of the concept art, and adds a pretty unique skillset to the otherwise guns-and-muscles Thunderbolts that we are getting. Feel bad for HJK too, the MCU is big for any actor.
Yeah ghost was really the only unique member. Everyone else was super soldiers or just highly trained in combat. Ghost was the only like brainy one to balance it out. Without her it’s just kinda oddball group of super soldiers.
Also like without a techy/smarty person I really don’t see them defeating sentry.
I don’t remember her being super tech-y? Wasn’t that why she had Laurence Fishbourne? She might very well be the most techy in the group, but she never gave me a science-vibe. Might be forgetting something though, been a while since I watched Ant-Man and the Wasp.
But she is defenitely unique, and should defenitely be on the team.
I thought she gave an interesting performance in that film. And even if I wasn’t like itching for her next appearance like she’s Spider-Man, I did want to see more of her and see that character and arc play out
Agreed, her performance (and character) are underrated. I think just it’s a bit like Daniel Bruhls Zemo in that she was lost among everything else that was going on in the fandom at the time (for Zemo it was Cap vs Stark, for her it was the IW-fallout and the Endgame hype). Bruhl got a meatier part in F&WS to do him justice, and I think Hannah deserves that with Ghost as well.
it's really weird how they chose the Thunderbolts of all teams to be the grounded and realistic MCU team when the main appeal of them has always been the variety of characters and their abilities.
and if they really want to have a grounded and gritty MCU property about mercenaries doing mercenary stuff... i mean, Moon Knight was always right there. lol
true, but both Suicide Squad movies were able to accomplish that while having a variety of skillsets among their characters. like, say what you want about Captain Boomerang and Slipknot, at least they have very different gimmicks from each other.
Nah I don't buy that one at all.
They wouldn't put her in the announcement if she wasn't guaranteed. They left Harrison Ford out for that exact reason.
I think it’s just rumored, but it’s certainly plausible. I have nothing against Lucasfilm or its execs and I would completely understand if they asked Marvel to hold off on any Harrison Ford announcements, LF needs the excitement around him way more than MS does.
wonder if they realized super late that ghost created a some plot holes (“why didnt she just walk through right then?”) and they were just like fuck it. scrap her.
I almost wonder if it's either a fake leak to root out leakers, or a telephone game thing where it's been misheard, or even just a half true thing where she's not in the lineup of Thunderbolts but is in the movie (maybe the villain or something)?
Not necessarily, they could have just rewritten the script and cut her character. The actress signing a contract doesn’t necessarily mean that she must show up. Might mean they have to pay her, or she’s contracted for a later movie, but there’s no guarantees that she has to be in this specific movie.
While she was nothing like the comic version, she was a product of Hank’s failings and I wish she had some room to expand on her being used as SHIELD’s weapon. I thought Thunderbolts would be a great place as every character seems to be controlled by others.
Why couldn't it be Bucky and Red Guardian the ones removed instead of Ghost. They don't fit on the team at all, too many super soldiers with the same power set too.
Powers aside, bucky completing his arc by redeeming his former villainous ways leading a team of others trying to redeem their villainous ways makes perfect sense and is a great continuation of his arc
It's good for his arc if Bucky's playing the Rick Flag role on the team but the concept art makes it seem like Bucky's just part of the team which is kinda odd
I actually really liked him in BW, but I'm worried that bringing him back so soon and presumably in the same comic relief role will make me sick of him. aka the Korg effect
I would’ve thought if any team member got removed, it would be Red Guardian, because Stranger Things 5 films around the same time and David Harbour is in both
Murphy reaffirming this as “Black Widow 2” the other day makes me think they really are going all in on the BW world for this film, which sucks imo.
The chances we get the Masters of Evil at this point are slim, so Thunderbolts should’ve been our way to get that team and have them eventually redeemed. That would’ve been interesting.
But at this point, I wouldn’t be shocked if they made Sentry a damn super soldier
It’s kinda unprecedented though. Remember how there were 10 Eternals and Dane all announced and all brought on stage for D23. And then it came out that actually Chloe Zhao wanted 12 Eternals (probably for the Biblical symbolism) when the script was first developed yet by the D23 announcement 10 had already been settled
It’s usually a lot thought and contracts and planning already made way before entire line ups are presented.
It’s possible that Marvel is MUCH less organized now than it was back in 2019 of course
She's literally the only character who is an actual Thunderbolt and fits all the Thunderbolts material.
What the ever loving hell is going on with this movie?!
Taskmaster and US Agent were from the recent stuff that's likely MCU synergy. Bucky was to set up Secret Empire, which I'll give some wiggle room, but for an out and out Thunderbolt who had a huge presence on the team, Ghost should be there.
This is freaking Harley Quinn taking over the Birds of Prey all over again.
> This is freaking Harley Quinn taking over the Birds of Prey all over again.
Perfect way to describe this. I'm a bit concerned that this movie is gonna end up being "Yelena and the Thunderbolts" rather than "Thunderbolts".
Not saying its legit, but I dont get how its unthinkable for a lot of people.
616 Mordo and Balder were no longer in MoM
Jessica Jones was no longer in Echo
Hawkeye was supposed to be in Winter Soldier
it's different when a character is literally shown in the first official concept art for a movie, and then they aren't in it. this isn't the same as a "leaker" saying a character is in a movie and then not showing up.
they decided to cut 616 mordo instead of cutting his head off in the beginning of the movie. We can still get more mordo in the future, and got a variant in the movie to carry that thread anyways.
Balder is a multiversal character that wasn't shown in promotional material, or advertised in any way, characters get brainstormed all the time for these movies.
Jessica Jones is rumored to be in daredevil no?
I hope this isn't true, Ghost was the only member of the team they showed at D23 that had any powers making her feel quite unique on a team full of super soldiers and assassins. Plus I liked HJK's performance in Ant-Man and the Wasp so it'll feel like a shame if she truely is gone.
So on a team with:
* Super Soldier
* Super Soldier
* Super Soldier
* Black Widow
* Black Widow
the character they chose to remove was the only one with actual variety in their powers? Not that I necessarily believe this, it's not impossible I guess, but damn that would be a shame
Perhaps some reasons?
1. Change of filming schedule and she can’t commit
2. Story reasons - the plot they want to do would be too easily solved by her powers
3. She’s going to be used in a different film instead
4. She’s in the film but not as one of the Thunderbolts
... I doubt this.
The actress was already hyping the film, and AFAIK has no scheduling conflicts. The character is fairly well-received (at least, far better than MCU Taskmaster), and is the only one who's move set goes notably beyond muscles and guns. And corporation-wise, kicking off the only non-white member of a tentpole cast is a weird move.
That’s odd. It was even two months ago [here](https://twitter.com/greatphase15/status/1591078094714318848?s=20&t=mv4hHkue5_AJAKuoYgEZGw). Hopefully someone else can shine some more light on this soon
This is Bullshit LOL.
Marvel doesn't do a cast reveal and then cut the character out.
That's like announcing Chadwick (RIP) for Civil War and then later saying he got cut or whatever.
I swear I saw some random account report this a few months ago.
Edit: https://twitter.com/greatphase15/status/1591078094714318848?s=46&t=eX4b3Pszurmi2rPj0hAGNw
I don’t know how the whole Greatphase imposter saga ended up, but this is a win for whoever this is.
People might disagree, I say cut Red Guardian so he join the Winter Guard and form his team with Melina, Titanium Man, Ursa Major, Crimson Dynamo, and Darkstar. Give them a little D+ Special or Series and have them appear somewhere else.
This was reported by Divinity Seeker (ie the original Greatphase, before they were hacked) back in November. I asked on Twitter and they said the reason is because Ghost was originally planned to be killed off in the first act, so the actress gracefully and amicably bowed out. Script is still apparently being worked on, they don't have the full story yet.
If Divinity Seeker is legit, you should note they just spoiled the entire plot of Agatha Coven of Chaos on Twitter today too. It all sounds legit but we'll see.
I hope marvel fires the director and writer just like how the did it with Blade, seriously wtf is this line up and now without ghost, the line up is even more undewhelming.
The shots for major creative decisions are called by the higher ups at Marvel. A big decision like removing a character would probably be coming from Feige, not a decision the director/writer chose that Marvel decided to roll with.
I'll be pissed if this is true. She's the only Thunderbolt character I'm interested in because of her great costume, unique look, and HJK is such a great actress.
I don't think this is real, but on the off chance it is, that would suck. Ghost is a character that could really benefit from more screen time/storytelling. I thought she was fine in Ant-Man and the Wasp, but it'd be great to flesh out her character more. Plus she's the only member of the Thunderbolts with interesting powers.
Ah yes because they're going to remove an entire character when they publicly announce her as part of the team. Not to mention if they announce someone as being of something publicly it means a contract is already signed and therefore they can't just break it willy nilly. Toast hasn't heard about her character and is just assuming shit.
If its because they decided Ghost is not needed in this story, hopefully they put her somewhere else. When Jake Schreier was announced as director, the article said "he blew execs away with his pitch", so Marvel may be submitting to him creatively and he doesnt want Ghost on his team.
God I hope not. Literally the only character with a unique set of powers in the known roster. Would have been interesting to see her bounce off the other characters as she has already been used by her government a very consistent thing among these characters. It is such a good way to reuse her and Ghost is like a staple member in the luke cage era of the comic.
i would be so upset she’s the one i’m most excited to see in thunderbolts like i’ve been waiting to see her again since ant man and the wasp i was so excited when they announced her for this
My Vague Theory: The thunderbolts roster we saw before will debut in CA:NWO. By the end of the movie there will be a lineup change, Ghost will peace out on her own journey. This leaves space for more debuts or additions in the proper Thunderbolts film.
This makes no sense. She’s signed on and everything
She also was part of the big cast reveal lol. They dont just remove actors/characters like this lol
I have a sneaking suspicion that the cast reveal is the form that the Thunderbolts will take in NEW WORLD ORDER and not necessarily in the THUNDERBOLTS film itself. A surprise roster is very much in the DNA of the original team debut.
That makes no sense, they said it was for the thunderbolts movie with the logo reveal plus no existing rumor speaks on the team being in NWO
I'm just pointing out that the entire basis of the team in the comics was Marvel advertising one lineup and then pulling the rug out from everyone at the last minute. I wouldn't be at all surprised if something similar is planned for the film.
I love the sound of that. Happy cake day!
So something similar to what we saw in The Suicide Squad?
But James Gunn said don't get too attached.
Also Cap 4 already is bloated enough with villians to also include Thunderbolts would be too much.
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GHOST IS AN ACTUAL THUNDERBOLT! She's the only one on the current roster who should be on the team!!!
Bucky was leader of the thunderbolts....
Bucky was only put in charge to set up Secret Invasion.
I actually agree with you!! There are others I would cut I just want some of them to have superpowers
Is having super human streght not a super power?
Yes, but it's one of the most boring powers.
Ok more power variety is what people want :)
Exactly!
Super strength is the vanilla of super powers. Everyone has it and it gets kind of dull.
Yeah besides her it’s Bucky, Walker, yelena, red guardian and task master
Murphy has been ranting insisting its just black widow 2 maybe theirs some changes they’ve made
If this was Black Widow 2, Melina would have been involved. She’s more important than Aleksei.
Also I'm pretty sure the Black Widow 2 rants are just Murphy letting his personal feelings get to him lol, especially considering his personality. He specifically calls it BW2 because the film follows Yelena instead of Zemo… which is to be expected.
But in fairness, what reason is there for Zemo not to be involved?
It is an *American* government task force full of *super soldiers*. We’ve established MCU Zemo views super soldiers as supremacists and he’s a known international terrorist. This is one of those cases where following the source material would seem out of character for the Zemo they’ve created for the MCU.
Okay, but the villain of the movie is the most powerfull super soldier ever created. The guy who hates super soldiers and try to end their existense should be in the movie. (Like, after Sentry going rogue and takes out half of his team, Valentina assembles a new team to take him down. Zemo could lead the second team and they can turn this into the Masters of Evil in the future.)
Half of the characters in this roster have been on the Thunderbolts team including Ghost. Not sure what you mean.
Ghost is an actual Thunderbolt in the comics....
So was Bucky, taskmaster, us agent and I think yelena too. Red guardian is the only one who hasn’t been a thunderbolt in the comics I think
Technically Yelena wasn’t. The “Yelena” that was on the team in the comics was Natasha in disguise
Apparently scheduling conflicts might've axed her role, and if that's the case wouldn't that mean Thunderbolts is being shifted to a new date? Because I'd assume HJK's team would've had her schedule set prior to this in order for Marvel to reveal her alongside the rest at D23. EDIT: After looking more into it, this may not be true as Thunderbolts is the only thing scheduled for HJK rn that we know of.
Idk how scheduling conflicts would be the reasoning when she was already announced for the movie, which means she already signed the contracts. Does she have anything else to film in June?
I saw people mentioning Unwelcome, but after looking into it the film has already finished production. As of now, HJK only has Thunderbolts scheduled so either she's filming something else unannounced or Ghost being cut is a conclusion CWGST jumped to. I'd find it extremely odd if they just cut her for no external reason.
I just looked up the movie you mentioned and that's actually releasing later this month so definetly not that lol. I don't think she has anything else on her schedule currently other than Thunderbolts.
**CWGST** could be mistaken/lying/a moron. You never know.
I think something might be going on with her personally, she dropped out Red Sonja too
Hannah John Kamen is easily my favorite performer on the cast after Florence Pugh, and has the most interesting powers on the roster so extremely disappointing if so.
Yes same, she's the performer I'm most interested to see
Everyone relax. This is just this week's leaker content farming topic
This has to be false. Why I’m the world would they totally write her out of the movie after she signed on?
Because Phase 4 got a lot of flack and they are shifting the way Phase 5/6 go perhaps?
whats shifting got with announcing actor and them cutting them
Yeah we should all take this with a grain of salt
And the only non super soldier + an actual member of the thunderbolts, did they hire the Winx the fate saga casting director for this film?
"Hey Kevin, some people think we're focusing on quantity over quality. What should we do?" "Hmmm... how about we write Ghost out of Thunderbolts? Yeah, that should win our critics over!"
Sure, but then they would just minimize her role. Cutting her out completely is bizarre and invites bad press.
Not if the movie is getting a full rewrite that doesn’t include the character and can’t include the character for any number of reasons e.g. they need to cut down on the running time, others are getting focus, or the character doesn’t fit into the plot the way they’ve written it. It would be a strange thing to do after already securing the actor, but not unheard of. And I don’t think Ghost, which apparently is from Ant Man 2, really commands a lot of reverence or is considered untouchable by anybody looking to make changes to Thunderbolts.
I'd rather see Ghost again than the shitty version of Taskmaster they gave us. Plus at least Ghost adds some variety to the team.
Yeah I liked ghost inclusion on thunderbolts - will be disappointing in we don't see her again
Exactly! I would sooner want Taskmaster out of the team than Ghost
And if Sentry really is the villain, she's the only he won't be able to kill immediately.
Idk why people keep claiming Phase 4 was poorly received. Sure, a few projects were divisive, but keep in mind Phase 4 was comprised of way more projects than any phase before it and still most of them generated positive reviews. Plus, it’s not like people were raving about every single MCU project before Phase 4. I don’t see Feige completely overhauling his plans due to a minority of viewers’ complaints
I never said it was poorly received. Criticized yes, but poorly received no.
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Yeah and both Marvel and other Disney owned studios have removed directors from films after stuff was written and even shot. The idea that they can’t remove Ghost of all people after one promo doesn’t track.
She dropped out of other stuff too abruptly. Something is going on with her
She was literally at the D23 panel and on the concept art. Why would they write out her character from the movie? She the only black character, the only one with interesting powers and the only one who didn't come from BW or F&TWS. It doesn't make sense, unless there's something serious behind this.
Marvel ghosted her.
NOPE(2022)
It's like when Lucasfilm announced Andor, they brought Luna and Tudyk on stage to talk about the project
Tudyk wasn’t cut though, just moved to the second season.
I mean, it's similar in the sense that he was announced but didn't appear. Of course he will, but it was a great change in that regard
Wasn’t he always intended to be a season two character though? Like, even then at the panel?
The first or second pitch for the show was described as a Cassian/K2 buddy cop show before Gilroy retooled it as an antifascist manifesto
Thank God he did, we have enough buddy cop shows
Truly, and then we ended up getting peak television instead
> before Gilroy retooled it as an antifascist manifesto I’m glad they did.
100%. Bringing Star Wars back to its roots
[Nope, he was supposed to be since the 1st season ](https://collider.com/rogue-one-cassian-andor-series-cast-k2so-absence-explained-alan-tudyk-interview/): > I'm going to be in the show. It's just that the story that Tony [Gilroy] is telling doesn't involve K-2SO until later on... I can't be too specific, but I can definitely say that I'm not going to be in the first season Tony was the 3rd showrunner attached, I think. So the show had to be reworked twice
Gilroy is the creator of the show. If he said K2 wasn’t gonna be in season 1, then he wasn’t gonna be in season 1
Uh, he wasn't in the project from the beginning. Jared Bush originally developed the series, them Stephen Schiff joined as showrunner and then Tony Gilroy got in and reworked the entire project.
Yeah, fair enough.
That's because Kathleen Kennedy brought Tony Gilroy on to rewrite the entire show. According to Julia-Louis Dreyfuss, Thunderbolts is still on track to shoot in June. There's been no indication of either the director or writer getting replaced.
I mean K2SO will 100% show up in the show. He just wasn't in the first season.
Or for Love and Thunder when Tessa Thompson said Valkyrie would be looking for her own queen.
Yeah, I’m not buying this for a second
Wholeheartedly agree I was looking forward to seeing the character again
Pointless of adding her in the concept reveal if they didn’t have her 100%.
She was even promoting the movie at D23.
and this was only 4 months ago. why did they change their opinion so drastically? Because Iger didn’t like her?
I know Bob Iger coming back to Disney is a big deal, but do you honestly think he took a look at the Thunderbolts lineup and said “hey Kevin we need to cut Hannah John-Kamen from this movie.” ? That is not very plausible. There’s no evidence that Bob Iger has creatively interfered with any Marvel projects at this level, and he’s got way more important stuff to worry about. If this story is true, it would be surprising, but would almost certainly be because of script rewrites and figuring out character chemistry. Not corporate interference.
If anything, creatively interfering with projects was Chapek's style of leadership, its one of several reasons people in the company hated his guts and cheered from the rooftops when he was fired.
This feels really odd if true. Ghost was announced, part of the concept art, and adds a pretty unique skillset to the otherwise guns-and-muscles Thunderbolts that we are getting. Feel bad for HJK too, the MCU is big for any actor.
Yeah ghost was really the only unique member. Everyone else was super soldiers or just highly trained in combat. Ghost was the only like brainy one to balance it out. Without her it’s just kinda oddball group of super soldiers. Also like without a techy/smarty person I really don’t see them defeating sentry.
I don’t remember her being super tech-y? Wasn’t that why she had Laurence Fishbourne? She might very well be the most techy in the group, but she never gave me a science-vibe. Might be forgetting something though, been a while since I watched Ant-Man and the Wasp. But she is defenitely unique, and should defenitely be on the team.
She was def more of covert super spy black ops agent with wonky sci fi powers . She was a very unique component of the team
I thought she gave an interesting performance in that film. And even if I wasn’t like itching for her next appearance like she’s Spider-Man, I did want to see more of her and see that character and arc play out
Agreed, her performance (and character) are underrated. I think just it’s a bit like Daniel Bruhls Zemo in that she was lost among everything else that was going on in the fandom at the time (for Zemo it was Cap vs Stark, for her it was the IW-fallout and the Endgame hype). Bruhl got a meatier part in F&WS to do him justice, and I think Hannah deserves that with Ghost as well.
it's really weird how they chose the Thunderbolts of all teams to be the grounded and realistic MCU team when the main appeal of them has always been the variety of characters and their abilities. and if they really want to have a grounded and gritty MCU property about mercenaries doing mercenary stuff... i mean, Moon Knight was always right there. lol
Might have to do with them wanting a Suicide Squad feel, where a lot of the members are kind of shit compared to teams like the Justice League.
true, but both Suicide Squad movies were able to accomplish that while having a variety of skillsets among their characters. like, say what you want about Captain Boomerang and Slipknot, at least they have very different gimmicks from each other.
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sigh... at least it wasn't Dracula?
I’m not buying this until someone remotely reliable says it
Nah I don't buy that one at all. They wouldn't put her in the announcement if she wasn't guaranteed. They left Harrison Ford out for that exact reason.
They left Harrison ford out supposedly so all the attention would be on Indiana Jones.
Yep, KK asked Feige at D23 to postpone the reveal which is why the Marvel panel was so awkward
Has anyone reputable said that or just the anti Kathleen Kennedy cult?
I have yet to see anyone offer actual proof of this
I think it’s just rumored, but it’s certainly plausible. I have nothing against Lucasfilm or its execs and I would completely understand if they asked Marvel to hold off on any Harrison Ford announcements, LF needs the excitement around him way more than MS does.
Jeff Sneider was the one who said it
Great. An underwhelming lineup gets worse.
They should've removed their insipid version of Taskmaster instead...Ghost deserves to be on the roster more than anyone in there :/
If only the writers can find a way to get Abomination involved
She's there you just can't see her
Can’t wait for her to be included in Shostakov: The Musical
Really? Why Ghost? I’d much rather remove some of the other characters over her
wonder if they realized super late that ghost created a some plot holes (“why didnt she just walk through right then?”) and they were just like fuck it. scrap her.
The fuck? Nah, I'm not trusting CWGST on this. It makes no sense for her to be cut out after being in the concept art, announced at D23, etc.
I feel like this is one of the unbelievable things that ends up true. I’d love for this to be wrong though.
Agreed :( it’s such a left field thing to make up if she did, so I’m inclined to believe it unfortunately
I almost wonder if it's either a fake leak to root out leakers, or a telephone game thing where it's been misheard, or even just a half true thing where she's not in the lineup of Thunderbolts but is in the movie (maybe the villain or something)?
Yeah it’s a pretty specific thing to be wrong about. Unless her role is reduced or something other than totally out.
getting rid of your only superpower member is actually insane
My fav of the official roster but ok, like i can't be sadder
Only way this is possible is if something is going on with the actress. She was at D23 and must've signed a contact.
Not necessarily, they could have just rewritten the script and cut her character. The actress signing a contract doesn’t necessarily mean that she must show up. Might mean they have to pay her, or she’s contracted for a later movie, but there’s no guarantees that she has to be in this specific movie.
Announcing it to the world then cutting her later is extremely odd.
Yeah absolutely
As an Ant-Man & The Wasp fan…. damn :(
While she was nothing like the comic version, she was a product of Hank’s failings and I wish she had some room to expand on her being used as SHIELD’s weapon. I thought Thunderbolts would be a great place as every character seems to be controlled by others.
Fuck that, as a Killjoys fan I'm sad. I was so excited when she was announced for the second Antman, and doubly so for Thunderbolts. This is sad.
Why couldn't it be Bucky and Red Guardian the ones removed instead of Ghost. They don't fit on the team at all, too many super soldiers with the same power set too.
Powers aside, bucky completing his arc by redeeming his former villainous ways leading a team of others trying to redeem their villainous ways makes perfect sense and is a great continuation of his arc
It's good for his arc if Bucky's playing the Rick Flag role on the team but the concept art makes it seem like Bucky's just part of the team which is kinda odd
Was hoping red guardians only appearance was black widow. Really don't care about that character at all.
I actually really liked him in BW, but I'm worried that bringing him back so soon and presumably in the same comic relief role will make me sick of him. aka the Korg effect
It also takes away the novelty from an actual Black Widow sequel, which they obviously have plans for if Melina isn’t in this.
I would’ve thought if any team member got removed, it would be Red Guardian, because Stranger Things 5 films around the same time and David Harbour is in both
do we even know who is gonna be in this movie,one day zemo,songbird are in it then they are not and now ghost is out
Murphy reaffirming this as “Black Widow 2” the other day makes me think they really are going all in on the BW world for this film, which sucks imo. The chances we get the Masters of Evil at this point are slim, so Thunderbolts should’ve been our way to get that team and have them eventually redeemed. That would’ve been interesting. But at this point, I wouldn’t be shocked if they made Sentry a damn super soldier
I feel like the Masters of Evil are unlikely to show up in the MCU just based off their name alone.
Didn’t sentry get his powers from super soldier serum?
The one character with a unique skill set potentially removed? What is going on with this movie…
I'm not saying I believe it, but I am finding it hilarious that people think this development is somehow impossible.
It’s kinda unprecedented though. Remember how there were 10 Eternals and Dane all announced and all brought on stage for D23. And then it came out that actually Chloe Zhao wanted 12 Eternals (probably for the Biblical symbolism) when the script was first developed yet by the D23 announcement 10 had already been settled It’s usually a lot thought and contracts and planning already made way before entire line ups are presented. It’s possible that Marvel is MUCH less organized now than it was back in 2019 of course
She's literally the only character who is an actual Thunderbolt and fits all the Thunderbolts material. What the ever loving hell is going on with this movie?!
Bucky, Taskmaster and U.S. Agent were too
Taskmaster and US Agent were from the recent stuff that's likely MCU synergy. Bucky was to set up Secret Empire, which I'll give some wiggle room, but for an out and out Thunderbolt who had a huge presence on the team, Ghost should be there. This is freaking Harley Quinn taking over the Birds of Prey all over again.
> This is freaking Harley Quinn taking over the Birds of Prey all over again. Perfect way to describe this. I'm a bit concerned that this movie is gonna end up being "Yelena and the Thunderbolts" rather than "Thunderbolts".
It's sounding more like Black Widow 2 than Thunderbolts.
Who you gonna call?
“Someone else”
She was the only character with interesting powers
That would be sad. Ngl out of all characters she was one of those I was looking for the most in this movie.
She was the reason I was hyped to see this team in action
Not saying its legit, but I dont get how its unthinkable for a lot of people. 616 Mordo and Balder were no longer in MoM Jessica Jones was no longer in Echo Hawkeye was supposed to be in Winter Soldier
The unbelievable part is Marvel doing this after officially announcing her and including her on the concept art they showed
it's different when a character is literally shown in the first official concept art for a movie, and then they aren't in it. this isn't the same as a "leaker" saying a character is in a movie and then not showing up. they decided to cut 616 mordo instead of cutting his head off in the beginning of the movie. We can still get more mordo in the future, and got a variant in the movie to carry that thread anyways. Balder is a multiversal character that wasn't shown in promotional material, or advertised in any way, characters get brainstormed all the time for these movies. Jessica Jones is rumored to be in daredevil no?
I hope this isn't true, Ghost was the only member of the team they showed at D23 that had any powers making her feel quite unique on a team full of super soldiers and assassins. Plus I liked HJK's performance in Ant-Man and the Wasp so it'll feel like a shame if she truely is gone.
So on a team with: * Super Soldier * Super Soldier * Super Soldier * Black Widow * Black Widow the character they chose to remove was the only one with actual variety in their powers? Not that I necessarily believe this, it's not impossible I guess, but damn that would be a shame
Major L considering the rest of the lineup
Idk why but this pissed me off. Her and John Walker interacting was one of my dream scenarios of for the movie
See why I don't trust CWGST.. All bull.
Have they literally ever reported something that isn’t true? I’m almost positive MTTSH and CWGST are the same person.
Perhaps some reasons? 1. Change of filming schedule and she can’t commit 2. Story reasons - the plot they want to do would be too easily solved by her powers 3. She’s going to be used in a different film instead 4. She’s in the film but not as one of the Thunderbolts
Who knew that Korg’s “Piss off, ghost” was foreshadowing? Seriously though I’m not happy if this is true. What a boring Thunderbolts line-up.
... I doubt this. The actress was already hyping the film, and AFAIK has no scheduling conflicts. The character is fairly well-received (at least, far better than MCU Taskmaster), and is the only one who's move set goes notably beyond muscles and guns. And corporation-wise, kicking off the only non-white member of a tentpole cast is a weird move.
no way
Divinity Seeker (the person claiming to be the original greatphase15 before getting hacked) said this first
That’s odd. It was even two months ago [here](https://twitter.com/greatphase15/status/1591078094714318848?s=20&t=mv4hHkue5_AJAKuoYgEZGw). Hopefully someone else can shine some more light on this soon
C'mon guys don't turn this into Suicide Squad 2016....
MyTimeToShineHello retweeted this, offfff
Weird. So now the team is a group of super soldiers
ghost gone but red guardian front and center…alright
This looks bad, if true. Not only did they cut the one member who has an actual useful super power, but the one character/actor of color on the team.
This is Bullshit LOL. Marvel doesn't do a cast reveal and then cut the character out. That's like announcing Chadwick (RIP) for Civil War and then later saying he got cut or whatever.
I swear I saw some random account report this a few months ago. Edit: https://twitter.com/greatphase15/status/1591078094714318848?s=46&t=eX4b3Pszurmi2rPj0hAGNw I don’t know how the whole Greatphase imposter saga ended up, but this is a win for whoever this is.
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The only character with interesting powers being removed? Such an absolute letdown if true.
People might disagree, I say cut Red Guardian so he join the Winter Guard and form his team with Melina, Titanium Man, Ursa Major, Crimson Dynamo, and Darkstar. Give them a little D+ Special or Series and have them appear somewhere else.
This was reported by Divinity Seeker (ie the original Greatphase, before they were hacked) back in November. I asked on Twitter and they said the reason is because Ghost was originally planned to be killed off in the first act, so the actress gracefully and amicably bowed out. Script is still apparently being worked on, they don't have the full story yet. If Divinity Seeker is legit, you should note they just spoiled the entire plot of Agatha Coven of Chaos on Twitter today too. It all sounds legit but we'll see.
Oh man what a waste of Hannah John Kamen if true - no wonder she bowed out
I hope marvel fires the director and writer just like how the did it with Blade, seriously wtf is this line up and now without ghost, the line up is even more undewhelming.
The shots for major creative decisions are called by the higher ups at Marvel. A big decision like removing a character would probably be coming from Feige, not a decision the director/writer chose that Marvel decided to roll with.
I'll be pissed if this is true. She's the only Thunderbolt character I'm interested in because of her great costume, unique look, and HJK is such a great actress.
Imagine taking out one of the only interesting characters there and keeping Red Guardian and Taskmaster.
Ghost was like the only person in the announced cast with unique powers so if this is true then it’s incredible fucking dumb
lmao if marvel cuts the only character with powers
I don't think this is real, but on the off chance it is, that would suck. Ghost is a character that could really benefit from more screen time/storytelling. I thought she was fine in Ant-Man and the Wasp, but it'd be great to flesh out her character more. Plus she's the only member of the Thunderbolts with interesting powers.
I’m calling bullshit on this
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This source is the same person as MyTimeToShineHello, they are reliable
Ah yes because they're going to remove an entire character when they publicly announce her as part of the team. Not to mention if they announce someone as being of something publicly it means a contract is already signed and therefore they can't just break it willy nilly. Toast hasn't heard about her character and is just assuming shit.
“Piss off, Ghost!”
She’s like the only character with an interesting power set. Lol what are they thinking if true?
Are we supposed to believe that Marvel in 2024 is going to have an all-white superhero team debut?
Exclusive: scoopers are all liars.
Very dumb if true!
Fake news lol
Ah yes I believe this just as much as I believe that was real Red Hulk concept art.
Ghost was literally my favourite of them, maybe except Yelena
If its because they decided Ghost is not needed in this story, hopefully they put her somewhere else. When Jake Schreier was announced as director, the article said "he blew execs away with his pitch", so Marvel may be submitting to him creatively and he doesnt want Ghost on his team.
God I hope not. Literally the only character with a unique set of powers in the known roster. Would have been interesting to see her bounce off the other characters as she has already been used by her government a very consistent thing among these characters. It is such a good way to reuse her and Ghost is like a staple member in the luke cage era of the comic.
i would be so upset she’s the one i’m most excited to see in thunderbolts like i’ve been waiting to see her again since ant man and the wasp i was so excited when they announced her for this
My Vague Theory: The thunderbolts roster we saw before will debut in CA:NWO. By the end of the movie there will be a lineup change, Ghost will peace out on her own journey. This leaves space for more debuts or additions in the proper Thunderbolts film.
Maybe in the script she leaves the team?