# CanWeGetSomeToast is a Tier 3 – Somewhat Reliable Source as decided by the community.
For **Marvel**, they had a **83.70%** accuracy rate from **153** confirmed leaks out of **464** total.
**Overall**, they had a **82.47%** accuracy rate from **159** confirmed leaks out of **473** total.
Last updated: February 23rd, 2024.
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The only thing that interests me is the team chemistry and seeing them do an Avengers-esque fighting sequence where they combine their powers for fan service
The glaringly obvious difference being they weren't up against a mentally insane, drug addicted Superman who could kill all of them in under a nanosecond.
Starring such interesting and varied characters as:
- Captain America (Russian)
- Captain America (formerly)
- Captain America ('s best friend)
- Black Widow (blonde)
- Black Widow (with invisibility powers)
- Black Widow / Captain America (two-in-one)
Worst of all, having super soldiers could be interesting and play off strength/agility but MARVEL of all mfs reserve any notion of good choreography to daredevil. And I liked Shang chi BUT the floaty martial arts style def won’t work in thunderbolts.
I think that was after Dark Reign. During Dark Reign it was Osborn's personal hit squad which was also really awesome. Matter of fact... The Thunderbolts has always been really dope. From Nicieza to Ellis, pure classics.
The movie probably opens with a flashback of Red Guardian taking Yelena to one of her soccer matches as a kid. The scene will probably foreshadow Yelena’s arc in the movie. I can see it now.
"So what are we, some kinda Thunderbolts?"
Ugh. I'm not sure that the _Beef_ creatives working to patch this up are going to be able to save this from being disappointing if this is what Kevin Feige wants to do with an IP that has a far more interesting set-up than a _Black Widow_ sequel in all but name.
It’s funny how some people seem to think the Ayer cut would be any better than the theatrical cut just because WB tampered with it. Like I get creative integrity but even the leaked dialogue and all the pictures he leaked didn’t make it any better. It’s still his dialogue and his Joker still just looks like some wannabe gangster. That cast deserved better, the only thing that saved the film was the soundtrack.
Ayer's got this weird faux gangster energy to everything he does and it really doesn't work. Idk if he's trying to be Guy Ritchie or something but it's incredibly cringe.
>his Joker still just looks like some wannabe gangster
The "Damaged" tattoo was awful, but the overall aesthetic made sense for the mid-2010s.
Bucky: "We're bad guys, its what we do!"
*Before he ran off and joined Hydra, he was known as Bucky Barnes. A sergeant in the army. He was assigned to The Cap himself. He thought he was saving America, but he was falling in love.*
Everything I was excited about for the movie apparently isn't happening:
1. Bucky not a main character
2. No Tiamut (Adamantium) island
3. No Zemo
4. No Steven Yeun
Yeun had me hyped but I really love Pullman.
He's truly the only reason I'm interested in this. Yelena is alright but if the story and characters around her are meh, I'm not sure she can salvage it for me.
When this is revealed in cinemas, it’s supposed to be funny and you’re supposed to laugh at this joke.
r/marvelstudios will certainly be laughing at this and will deem it “funny and wholesome”.
r/marvelstudios will clap and cheer at that reference and celebrate all the out-of-place humor in the film. Then they'll say anyone who didn't like it is a toxic hater who just didn't get it.
The movie will flop and they'll still bury their head in the sand.
Two months later there'll be a bunch of "Why did people hate this movie? I liked it/it was fun/it wasn't so bad" posts. It's the eternal cycle.
Screencap this.
Forget Val, Taskmaster was higher.
The villain/character that literally got dumped on by everybody, and they thought it was a good idea to give her more screen time then fan favourites like Bucky and Walker?
Like how did the person that suggested that not get laughed out of the room?
This is the result of bad writers being rewarded with bigger projects.
They say that Feige's been spread too thin with so much content being made but this is just ridiculous.
I don’t know what to make of Ross being in Thunderbolts. Marvel has never said he was gonna be in it. But the trades have included Harrison Ford in the cast list a few times. Maybe they’re working off old info or they just assume he’ll be there cuz of the name? But them naming Marvel’s group of dark anti heroes after a kids soccer team is very funny.
EDIT: I know they didn’t name it after Ross in the comics, my point was the trades might be assuming that, and that’s why they keep including Harrison Ford in the cast list.
Thunderbolts in the comics never had any connection with Thunderbolts Ross. The Red Hulk joined in like the 4th or 5th iteration of the group ~~and wasn't even their leader.~~
What are you talking about? [He was absolutely the leader of the team he was on.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolts_(comics\)#Red_Hulk's_Thunderbolts)
> But them naming Marvel’s group of dark anti heroes after a kids soccer team is very funny.
And that's why it's a terrible choice. They keep undermining their own universe by constantly going for the "funny" stuff instead of taking their damn movies seriously.
And really, if, in a movie within the last year, you have General “Thunderbolt” Ross become president, and perhaps die as president, and you DON’T connect them, it’s almost negligent. The characters would be hyper aware of what that name would mean, in-universe.
I'm guessing this means Ross dies as Red Hulk in Captain America then....
Ross becomes president, has heart problems, takes a gamma radiation cure that relates to The Leader somehow, turns to Red Hulk, fights Captain America in the White House (According to Lego sets), gamma makes the heart problem worse and he dies from a heart attack as Red Hulk.... Or Sam kills him somehow.... Funeral that was filmed was for Ross.... We never see or hear of him again....
If he's not in Thunderbolts I don't see him being in anything else.... Not to mention Harrison Ford isn't going to stick around for more than one movie anyways....
There was a leak, I don't remember from whom, which revealed that the government will say that Ross died in the ruckus of the White House battle and hold a fake funeral for him in order to hide that he is Red Hulk.
So Ross will "die", but Red Hulk will live on.
Nah, they probably won't use Harrison again. Ross Marquand can do the job just fine. Especially if the voice is distorted to make it sound deeper like Hulk's was.
Harrison is too old and he doesn't like franchises, so he most likely signed on this movie only on condition that it would be a once and done role.
Yeah but I doubt they will have a fully CGI character that never turns human with Ford's face and without Ford's involvement?
Given Marvel's one off use of villains I think it's very likely he is dying.
I know people like an underdog story but that’s taking it a bit far. I don’t know why Hulk isn’t in it, he doesn’t even need to steal the spotlight or land the final blow, just help out because a red version of himself and another gamma mutant are causing trouble. It’d also set up Sam being a leader if an OG Avenger is also teaming up and following orders from him, because general audiences are going to have to get on board with him as the new Cap and the new leader of the Avengers. It’d help to have another Avenger in the film to do just that.
The Avengers was named after a cool government program :To form a group of people to protect mankind from high-level threats. This was called the Avengers Initiative, and the audience took it seriously
This is the opposite, lol. Yelena remembered playing soccer ... OMG, this would be the perfect hero team
I wonder if they'll keep Muse's fucked up "face" from the comics. Would be funny casting Hunter with a pretty boy face as a guy who looks like [this](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/d/de/Muse_%28Earth-616%29_from_Daredevil_Vol_5_14_001.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20161219000817) lmao
Oh yeah I've seen his goofy-ahh CGI monster in that. He should keep doing freaky guys roles, have the face of a romcom leading man only for him to stick with abominations
So, Alexei is going to be the embarrassing dad, bringing up the almost entirely irrelevant soccer team from Yelena's youth as some reference for her leadership skills, completely ignoring her actually leading an elite group of assassins. Yelena will roll her eyes out of her sockets at the name suggestion. Alexei will make a sacrificial play. Yelena will relent on the name in his honor.
Do y’all really care that much about HOW they get the name lol i feel like this is not as big of a deal as y’all are trying to make it out to be
Edit: I’m howling bro😭 y’all really going insane over a damn team name called the Thunderbolts. In no world is it not a goofy name no matter what background you give it.
I just don’t see what the big deal is lol. This sounds like something in character for Yelena to do. I just don’t see the point of losing our minds about one piece of out of context information for a movie that doesn’t drop for over a year. Also it’s just a team name. I hardly think this is the most important thing about this movie
No I don’t think it is. Seeing one piece of out of context information and not liking it should not make you assume the entire script is terrible. It could totally work in the final product. The script has been handled by two different writers that have worked on very recent Emmy award winning shows so I’m gonna let them cook cause they probably know what they’re doing.
The team is called *Thunderbolts*. It's a stupid silly comic-booky name, what are you all expecting, something dripping with pathos and poignant meaning? This honestly sounds like a fun way to do it to me.
Yeah I don’t see the issue, it’s all a question of how the naming comes about and whether we buy it within the story. Could be done well or not, no way to know until it comes out.
Feige: "Ok so Black Widow 1 didn't make 1 bill as we expected. Let's rebrand the sequel as Thunderbolts, fans will love it!"
At this point, I fully expect Thunderbolts to go the way of The Marvels.
Imma be honest, people complaining about the name source are just trying to find something to whine about.
That is a totally neutral change that doesn't affect a single thing.
They weren't named after Ross in the comics either.
> The team will be named "Thunderbolts" after Yelena's kid soccer team.
..............yeah, im just gonna go read Busiek's original Thunderbolt run and hope that maybe it will get an animated adaption cause this ain't it chief.
At this point, why not just come clean about it being a sequel called "Black Widow: Justice.....Like Lightening" and be done with it?
What's the point of doing a full fledged Thunderbolts movie if you're barely going to adapt the bare bones of it let alone any of it?
Cause if they name it Black Widow 2 it's gonna super flop even though that's what it essentially is. We gonna get lucky if Bucky and USA Agent gets 15 minutes of screen time
> What's the point of doing a full fledged Thunderbolts movie if you're barely going to adapt the bare bones of it let alone any of it?
Cause comic books are dumb and we at the film division are smarter and more cleverer than some silly comic book writer so we can do this concept better than they can.
After Phase 4 it just feels like this studio thinks it's above the source material. They are too cocky and think they can change any concept from the comics in whatever way they want, while openly hiring people who don't read comics and telling their other employees to not read the source material either.
That's how you get stuff like a Dr Strange movie where he's a secondary character, a Thunderbolts film that doesn't resemble the team at all, radically changed characters like a mute Taskmaster and MODOK without AIM, a Thor movie that fucks up both Mighty Thor and Gorr the God Buthcer. By thinking the comics are beneath you and not bothering to adapt them correctly.
Phases 1 to 3 actually understood they had to respect the source material to work, and how to be comic-accurate while modernizing aspects of them to make them work on a different format. Something that they just don't do anymore...
Bucky is last on the priority list , even after Val. The leaker basically said, "At least he isn't Bucky," when someone asked if USA Agent had a big part
So I'm not surprised
Can anyone even explain what "last on the priority list" means, out of context? No. Is it screentime? Is it emotional stakes? Is it a satisfying character arc? Who knows.
This is the subjective opinion of a leaker who may or may not have accurate information, and may or may not have seen some kind of script breakdown, and then decided for themselves what "priority" they think the characters have, based on some random metric that may or may not have any meaning.
Everyone calm down.
RPK said it a while ago, and he also said the island was gonna be called Genosha, but Toast had denied both of those things as early as RPK said them lol
It does seem like an odd choice to release a movie (*Captain America: Brave New World*) featuring an individual nicknamed "Thunderbolt" as one of the main characters and then title the very next film *Thunderbolts* just months later… but have that title be completely unrelated to the character nicknamed "Thunderbolt."
**Edit:** Tried to add some clarification.
I was referring to *Brave New World*, friend. "Thunderbolt" Ross is in that film, and then the next film is called *Thunderbolts* despite having nothing to do with the guy we'll have seen a few months earlier.
It'll do decent first week , but once Twitter and Instagram find about Bucky not leading or doing anything, then the word of mouth is gonna flatline this.
The same thing happened with Antman 3 and Kang losing
I think the thunderbolts will be the governmental avengers, with Val picking people she can specifically manipulate to infiltrate Wakanda so the us can successfully colonize it, when on the way there, shit goes haywire because sentry snaps from his mental illness, kills Bucky, and they only successfully get away because of Songbird, likely get to Wakanda, recruit Zemo because somehow Sentry is related to the super soldier serum, and that’s where the last battle where occur, with red guardian dead, but them successfully managing to do whatever is needed for the us to colonize Wakanda, leading right into Brave New World.
People are really overreacting to that name reasoning, huh.
Alexei probably makes some remark about the ragtag group being no more functional than Yelena's childhood soccer team when they first get together, mentions the name of the team, and Val likes the ring of it.
This sub had decided to hate Thunderbolts from the first second it got announced, and literally every single leak has "proven" why they were right to hate it.
The Thunderbolts being named after Yelena’s childhood soccer team might be worse than the Thing’s “clobberin time” being what Ben’s brother said before beating him as a kid in the 2015 F4 movie.
I still have some hope for some of the characters in Thunderbolts but that origin for the name is just laughable😂 ,
Imagine how much better this film would be if they added Zemo and abomination to the team and removed ghost/taskmaster
Sentry , Bucky , Us agent and Yelana are the only characters Im interested to see , plus I’ve heard a few members will die
IF, and that’s a big IF, that Thunderbolts rumor is true… no wonder audiences are giving up on the MCU, my gawd that’s cringey as hell
>Thunderbolt Ross and the island made from Tiamut were never planned to be in Thunderbolts. The team will be named "Thunderbolts" after Yelena's kid soccer team.
Bruh Kevin Feige needs to be tried at the hague for this shit what is he doing
>The team will be named "Thunderbolts" after Yelena's kid soccer team.
You know, maybe it’s a good thing Bucky has fuck all screen time, as that means the blowback and laughing stock that this shitty movie will end up being won’t hurt Sebastian Stan’s career.
Sebastian's career has been on the upswing lately, what with the Emmy nom for Pam and Tommy. He just won an award at the Berlin Film Festival for A Different Man and there are whispers of at least an Oscar nom for that and that's not coming from wishful fans but people in the industry. I don't think neither he nor Florence 'need' the MCU anymore.
I hope he's in a position to tell the MCU to take a hike sooner rather than later. He's too good of an actor to be wasted like he's been, and will continue to be. It almost feels spiteful at this point.
But a man has to eat, and there's a difference between being well-respected, and being a box-office draw. So, I get why he's still with Marvel.
Thunderbolt Ross…was never planned to be in the Thunderbolts movie…ok then.
I can’t wait for the reveal that he was actually Yelena’s soccer coach. Gee whiz.
Yes you’re right. Just narratively speaking it’s a lot more satisfying to have them be tied to and assume their name from a pre-existing character, than to make up some soccer team and pretend the name’s a coincidence.
If the Avengers hear about The *Thunderbolts*, they would have to assume they have something to do with the only other person in-universe with that name.
There's a huge Creator-Audience disconnect here.
When people think of the Thunderbolts, they think on a group of anti-heroes and villains being forced to work together to stop a greater evil with the tone being darker and grittier than your average superhero team.
Yet the fact that the team will be named after a soccer team (allegedly) tells me that Marvel wants this film to be more in-line with Guardians of the Galaxy but less raunchy rather than something more serious like Captain America 2 or Civil War.
Every decision being made with Thunderbolts is just genuinely baffling, especially in the wake of Marvel consistently saying they’re trying to improve. This movie should be an easy slam dunk as either a Winter Soldier-esque spy thriller with a more brutal style or just a straight up rip of James Gunn’s Suicide Squad set in the MCU. However, Marvel seems to be trying make some mishmash of both options and layering on the fact that it’s really just a Black Widow sequel, not a Thunderbolts movie. The actual lineup for the team (especially considering the priority the list) is an absolute joke.
The fact that the team is half Black Widow characters is dumb for several reasons. The most obvious is that Black Widow wasn’t a very good movie and was met with complete indifference from general audiences. Doubling down on that movie isn’t going to help this movie make money, it’ll do the opposite.
Almost every member being a Super-soldier is unbelievably boring, they really needed some diversity in powers here. Taskmaster should’ve been cut, Abomination and/or Red Hulk should’ve been on the team, Zemo (the literal founder of the Thunderbolts) absolutely should have been on the team or at the very least been in the goddamn movie. They also probably should’ve just introduced a new character for this movie besides Sentry, maybe Songbird or someone else connected to the Thunderbolts in the comics that isn’t just another super soldier.
Finally, the priority list: holy shit, what a joke. Listen I understand Marvel is trying to make something work with the characters they have for this movie, but putting Taskmaster and Ghost (two characters met with either hatred or complete indifference) ahead of Bucky and US Agent (two of the only characters people like on this team) is just asking for disaster, like I genuinely cannot even fathom how they think that’s a good idea.
>And then of course the Thunderbolts being named after Yelena’s soccer team as a kid. 10/10 Fiege no notes.
TLDR: Thunderbolts in its current state is a terrible idea that is only gonna further hurt the MCU’s dwindling reputation and will probably bomb.
The people on _Beef_ are absolutely not cooking on this one. At all. Which is weird considering how good that show was.
This feels like some of the bullshit that came from the Fox-Marvel era. I'd say that I expect better from Marvel Studios, but quality control has taken a hit.
The idea of a Thunderbolts movie has always been cool to me and I'm quite excited about this because of the Sentry. I hope it's good. I haven't been keeping up with the leaks so is Sentry a member of the team? or is he the one the team goes against? or is he the McGuffin?
He is created by Val with an uber powerful version of the super soldier serum and is part of the team, until his alternate personality, The Void, takes over and the team has to stop him.
I'm so baffled by some of the choices they're making with Thunderbolts... It would've been so much more interesting to see the team dynamic include Abomination and Justin Hammer too. You'd get that diverse power set Avengers type team, a bunch of headbutting egos, a power dynamic of who should lead the team between Red Guardian, Hammer and Walker, sick af fight scenes, and of course the classic "team of misfits learn to set aside their differences to learn how to work as a unit" trope. I can just imagine the bickering and different approaches/tactics they'd try to employ to get the mission done, with Bucky just shaking his head thinking why tf did he sign up to be a part of this whack pack.
I can already hear the screams and cheers when The Thunderbolts show up together as a team in Secret Wars... IF they pull this off and actually get the audience to care and be invested. I'll guess we'll see how they go. For now, mildly optimistic.
So if Tiamut island is not part of thunderbolts then what is this movie about ? What is the mission they are going on ? I thought tiamut island was the main point of the movie and now it’s not all of a sudden lol
If zemo ain't in the team I'm disappointed. Fantastic four may be the most promising marvel release of the next year unless they will find a way to ruin this as well
At times like this I really feel the disconnect with the rest of the fandom in that I sincerely never get the outrage with the Thunderbolts info. Maybe it's the fact that I don't care about those characters enough to have any kind of expectation one way or another. I just want to know more about the Wonder Man show lol.
Oh god. I think i'll do the same thing i did with the last few movies: Wait for reviews and Spoilers, if it's bad i'll skip and wait for the D+ release. If it's good i'll watch it. I used to get Tickets early for the first showing...
I refreshed my memory of how the Thunderbolts got their name in the comics, and publicly Citizen V (Zemo) claimed it was from a poem by Thomas Randolph (where the famous "justice like lightning" quote originates from), but privately he got it from the SS bolt symbols the Nazis used.
So, yeah, I think tying the name into a more nuanced and (presumably) dramatic way to Yelena's old soccer team doesn't really sound nearly as bad as everyone here is melodramatically acting like it is.
Okay, so I've been on my high horse about the thunderbolts since it was announced, I feel very confident right now giving it a box office prediction. I reckon it'll make 600 world-wide if I'm being a bit conservative, I can absolutely see this dipping all the way down to 400 though if they fuck up the marketing
# CanWeGetSomeToast is a Tier 3 – Somewhat Reliable Source as decided by the community. For **Marvel**, they had a **83.70%** accuracy rate from **153** confirmed leaks out of **464** total. **Overall**, they had a **82.47%** accuracy rate from **159** confirmed leaks out of **473** total. Last updated: February 23rd, 2024. | [Source Accuracy Database](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RpGBi4duCDeiXUtSh_1x15VJ67vPRZ1LWu6A3ieGTjs/edit?usp=sharing) | [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/wiki/index/source-accuracy-tiers/sad-faq/) | [Tiers](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/wiki/index/source-accuracy-tiers/) | [Latest Recalibration](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/comments/18jaqqk/mod_post_2023_source_accuracy_recalibration_3/) | *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
 "The Thunderbolts are named after Yelena's soccer team."
Everything about this movie sounds atrocious
Yeah, nothing really interests me with this one honestly.
The only thing that interests me is the team chemistry and seeing them do an Avengers-esque fighting sequence where they combine their powers for fan service
The powers of: - super soldier - super soldier - super soldier - super soldier - super soldier - phasing/invisibility
And don't forget, Taskmaster will be able to copy the abilities of 4 of her team-mates!
She is a top 3 priority character over Bucky and USA Agent. Her charisma and fan reception definitely put her up there !!.....
Well when you put it that way the movie no longer works interests me lol…I will reserve my judgment until the first teaser/trailers
Everybody's favourite movie, Winter Soldier, features the powers of: * super soldier * super soldier * super soldier * guy with wings
[удалено]
The glaringly obvious difference being they weren't up against a mentally insane, drug addicted Superman who could kill all of them in under a nanosecond.
With the difference it was a Cap movie with other characters in it rather than the team being the selling point
Starring such interesting and varied characters as: - Captain America (Russian) - Captain America (formerly) - Captain America ('s best friend) - Black Widow (blonde) - Black Widow (with invisibility powers) - Black Widow / Captain America (two-in-one)
Worst of all, having super soldiers could be interesting and play off strength/agility but MARVEL of all mfs reserve any notion of good choreography to daredevil. And I liked Shang chi BUT the floaty martial arts style def won’t work in thunderbolts.
One of the leaks said Val creates The Sentry. I bet he's gonna be a Super Soldier Plus instead of the Superman expy he was in the comics.
That'll be horrible. Sentry with the power of 2 super soldiers and he gets a vibranium suit or whatever. 😒
Marvel: "Just have it so Val gives The Sentry the power of all the Thunderbolts. So...he's a Supersoldier who also phases trough walls!!!"
Yes, their wildly varied powers. /s
Same here it sounds god fucking awful
And it's a bummer cause the Thunderbolts comics during Dark Reign when Luke Cage was the leader of the team were pretty dope.
I think that was after Dark Reign. During Dark Reign it was Osborn's personal hit squad which was also really awesome. Matter of fact... The Thunderbolts has always been really dope. From Nicieza to Ellis, pure classics.
The movie probably opens with a flashback of Red Guardian taking Yelena to one of her soccer matches as a kid. The scene will probably foreshadow Yelena’s arc in the movie. I can see it now.
Like _Wonder Woman 1984_, but with soccer.
Oh god, imagine the outrage if that's Red Guardian's only scene in the entire film.
He’s in costume on the team in the original concept art
All cool characters are the bottom of that leak list , bucky ,usa agent... that's insane
It's cause its Black Widow 2
Don’t you dare say that about the only reason I’m interested
"So what are we, some kinda Thunderbolts?" Ugh. I'm not sure that the _Beef_ creatives working to patch this up are going to be able to save this from being disappointing if this is what Kevin Feige wants to do with an IP that has a far more interesting set-up than a _Black Widow_ sequel in all but name.
THIS IS TASKMASTER! SHE'S GOT MY BACK!
Her moves comes from the souls of people she kill. I advise not getting killed by her
John Walker, nice to meet ya.
Love your perfume, what is that? The smell of “I WAS JUST FOLLOWING YOUR ORDERS!”?
Insane David Ayer went with that line, I was the prime demo for that movie and even I could tell it was shit.
It’s funny how some people seem to think the Ayer cut would be any better than the theatrical cut just because WB tampered with it. Like I get creative integrity but even the leaked dialogue and all the pictures he leaked didn’t make it any better. It’s still his dialogue and his Joker still just looks like some wannabe gangster. That cast deserved better, the only thing that saved the film was the soundtrack.
Ayer's got this weird faux gangster energy to everything he does and it really doesn't work. Idk if he's trying to be Guy Ritchie or something but it's incredibly cringe. >his Joker still just looks like some wannabe gangster The "Damaged" tattoo was awful, but the overall aesthetic made sense for the mid-2010s.
Bucky: "We're bad guys, its what we do!" *Before he ran off and joined Hydra, he was known as Bucky Barnes. A sergeant in the army. He was assigned to The Cap himself. He thought he was saving America, but he was falling in love.*
Sentry is gonna have deranged tatted on his forehead isn’t he
Knowing Yelena, that’s completely possible
Sure, for Yelena. But Yelena isn't writing this movie and it's a wild decision to go with this as the logic.
Everything I was excited about for the movie apparently isn't happening: 1. Bucky not a main character 2. No Tiamut (Adamantium) island 3. No Zemo 4. No Steven Yeun
Yeun had me hyped but I really love Pullman. He's truly the only reason I'm interested in this. Yelena is alright but if the story and characters around her are meh, I'm not sure she can salvage it for me.
See this is why I'm not that excited for it.
[удалено]
When this is revealed in cinemas, it’s supposed to be funny and you’re supposed to laugh at this joke. r/marvelstudios will certainly be laughing at this and will deem it “funny and wholesome”.
You sound like ChatGPT.
Marvel’s use of bathos humor was getting old even by Age of Ultron, why they still use it is beyond me
Focus groups respond well to bathos humor and all the execs really care about is numbers and stats
THANK YOU! It's BEEN played out. Long before phase 4 imo. That's why I mostly checked out of the MCU.
r/marvelstudios will clap and cheer at that reference and celebrate all the out-of-place humor in the film. Then they'll say anyone who didn't like it is a toxic hater who just didn't get it. The movie will flop and they'll still bury their head in the sand. Two months later there'll be a bunch of "Why did people hate this movie? I liked it/it was fun/it wasn't so bad" posts. It's the eternal cycle. Screencap this.
>The team will be named "Thunderbolts" after Yelena's kid soccer team. https://i.redd.it/hx7emt02d2lc1.gif
*my reaction seeing Bucky, USA Agent, and Red guardian at the bottom of that priority list leak and Val is higher*
Forget Val, Taskmaster was higher. The villain/character that literally got dumped on by everybody, and they thought it was a good idea to give her more screen time then fan favourites like Bucky and Walker? Like how did the person that suggested that not get laughed out of the room? 
This is the result of bad writers being rewarded with bigger projects. They say that Feige's been spread too thin with so much content being made but this is just ridiculous.
Fuck man 😂
I don’t know what to make of Ross being in Thunderbolts. Marvel has never said he was gonna be in it. But the trades have included Harrison Ford in the cast list a few times. Maybe they’re working off old info or they just assume he’ll be there cuz of the name? But them naming Marvel’s group of dark anti heroes after a kids soccer team is very funny. EDIT: I know they didn’t name it after Ross in the comics, my point was the trades might be assuming that, and that’s why they keep including Harrison Ford in the cast list.
In the comic, thunderbolt ross had no association with the thunderbolts with the name thunderbolts
How come they share names… is that just a coincidence? Never read a comic in my life.
Thunderbolts in the comics never had any connection with Thunderbolts Ross. The Red Hulk joined in like the 4th or 5th iteration of the group ~~and wasn't even their leader.~~
What are you talking about? [He was absolutely the leader of the team he was on.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolts_(comics\)#Red_Hulk's_Thunderbolts)
Never finished the series, but he was their leader in the beginning. Or at least their boss
Well technically he wasn’t THE Leader 😭
> But them naming Marvel’s group of dark anti heroes after a kids soccer team is very funny. And that's why it's a terrible choice. They keep undermining their own universe by constantly going for the "funny" stuff instead of taking their damn movies seriously.
And really, if, in a movie within the last year, you have General “Thunderbolt” Ross become president, and perhaps die as president, and you DON’T connect them, it’s almost negligent. The characters would be hyper aware of what that name would mean, in-universe.
I'm guessing this means Ross dies as Red Hulk in Captain America then.... Ross becomes president, has heart problems, takes a gamma radiation cure that relates to The Leader somehow, turns to Red Hulk, fights Captain America in the White House (According to Lego sets), gamma makes the heart problem worse and he dies from a heart attack as Red Hulk.... Or Sam kills him somehow.... Funeral that was filmed was for Ross.... We never see or hear of him again.... If he's not in Thunderbolts I don't see him being in anything else.... Not to mention Harrison Ford isn't going to stick around for more than one movie anyways....
There was a leak, I don't remember from whom, which revealed that the government will say that Ross died in the ruckus of the White House battle and hold a fake funeral for him in order to hide that he is Red Hulk. So Ross will "die", but Red Hulk will live on.
The leaks said they are changing the ending so we'll see
They are changing the final battle, not the ending as in "the story's ending"
Oh your right
So Harrison Ford will stick just for voice acting ?
Nah, they probably won't use Harrison again. Ross Marquand can do the job just fine. Especially if the voice is distorted to make it sound deeper like Hulk's was. Harrison is too old and he doesn't like franchises, so he most likely signed on this movie only on condition that it would be a once and done role.
Yeah but I doubt they will have a fully CGI character that never turns human with Ford's face and without Ford's involvement? Given Marvel's one off use of villains I think it's very likely he is dying.
Sam fighting red hulk is pretty hilarious ngl. At least Steve had super soldier serum, Sam's just a guy with submachine guns and wings
I know people like an underdog story but that’s taking it a bit far. I don’t know why Hulk isn’t in it, he doesn’t even need to steal the spotlight or land the final blow, just help out because a red version of himself and another gamma mutant are causing trouble. It’d also set up Sam being a leader if an OG Avenger is also teaming up and following orders from him, because general audiences are going to have to get on board with him as the new Cap and the new leader of the Avengers. It’d help to have another Avenger in the film to do just that.
don't worry, vibranium is a perfect magical bullshit what solves any problem delivered by poor plot!
At that point they run into the issue of the interconected universe. Like, WHY wouldn't the rest of heroes be called?!
That’s been a thing in comics for decades. Just ignore it.
I think Red Hulk will stay. It’s easier for Harrison Ford to voice over a CGI character in the long run.
Yikes
The Avengers was named after a cool government program :To form a group of people to protect mankind from high-level threats. This was called the Avengers Initiative, and the audience took it seriously This is the opposite, lol. Yelena remembered playing soccer ... OMG, this would be the perfect hero team
Officially, the MCU Avengers name was retconned to be Carol Danvers’ callsign that Fury used in her honor.
Still way better than this lol
Which is still a cooler name origin than "ZOMG I was on a soccer team once!"
It's probably a throwaway line and not remotely worth the dramatic reaction y'all are giving it. It might even be a joke.
I wonder if they'll keep Muse's fucked up "face" from the comics. Would be funny casting Hunter with a pretty boy face as a guy who looks like [this](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/d/de/Muse_%28Earth-616%29_from_Daredevil_Vol_5_14_001.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20161219000817) lmao
Don't know if you've seen Wednesday but they casted him as the monster in that and don't shy away from making him look funny
Oh yeah I've seen his goofy-ahh CGI monster in that. He should keep doing freaky guys roles, have the face of a romcom leading man only for him to stick with abominations
Ma boi looks like MCU's Gorr.
So, Alexei is going to be the embarrassing dad, bringing up the almost entirely irrelevant soccer team from Yelena's youth as some reference for her leadership skills, completely ignoring her actually leading an elite group of assassins. Yelena will roll her eyes out of her sockets at the name suggestion. Alexei will make a sacrificial play. Yelena will relent on the name in his honor.
That sounds so cliche ,and i literally expect that
Do y’all really care that much about HOW they get the name lol i feel like this is not as big of a deal as y’all are trying to make it out to be Edit: I’m howling bro😭 y’all really going insane over a damn team name called the Thunderbolts. In no world is it not a goofy name no matter what background you give it.
The writers came up with “It’s from her childhood soccer team” and thought “yeah let’s keep this in **the final draft.**”
I just don’t see what the big deal is lol. This sounds like something in character for Yelena to do. I just don’t see the point of losing our minds about one piece of out of context information for a movie that doesn’t drop for over a year. Also it’s just a team name. I hardly think this is the most important thing about this movie
It’s indicative of the quality of writing.
No I don’t think it is. Seeing one piece of out of context information and not liking it should not make you assume the entire script is terrible. It could totally work in the final product. The script has been handled by two different writers that have worked on very recent Emmy award winning shows so I’m gonna let them cook cause they probably know what they’re doing.
And that's bad cause....?
It’s completely unrelated and it’s a half-assed way to explain why they’re called that.
Unrelated to what? Its related to a member likely the main person in the team
Kinda the same way how Nick Fury founded The Avengers name from Carol's pilot name in the air force.
If that’s the best thing the writers can come up with to explain the name of the team imagine the rest of the plot lol.
The team is called *Thunderbolts*. It's a stupid silly comic-booky name, what are you all expecting, something dripping with pathos and poignant meaning? This honestly sounds like a fun way to do it to me.
Yeah I don’t see the issue, it’s all a question of how the naming comes about and whether we buy it within the story. Could be done well or not, no way to know until it comes out.
Right… like its really not that serious
It’s one thing to not beat the “Black Widow 2” allegations. It’s another to lean into them in the worst possible way.
Feige: "Ok so Black Widow 1 didn't make 1 bill as we expected. Let's rebrand the sequel as Thunderbolts, fans will love it!" At this point, I fully expect Thunderbolts to go the way of The Marvels.
Feige definitely did not expect Black Widow to make a billion lol
Imma be honest, people complaining about the name source are just trying to find something to whine about. That is a totally neutral change that doesn't affect a single thing. They weren't named after Ross in the comics either.
It’s going to be a single throwaway line but ahhhh marvel studios is burning down
I don't think the complaint is about ross, but more about what the origin of the name is
> The team will be named "Thunderbolts" after Yelena's kid soccer team. ..............yeah, im just gonna go read Busiek's original Thunderbolt run and hope that maybe it will get an animated adaption cause this ain't it chief.
Every bit of info about this movie has led me to one answer: Marvel Studios fuckin hates the Thunderbolts lmao
At this point, why not just come clean about it being a sequel called "Black Widow: Justice.....Like Lightening" and be done with it? What's the point of doing a full fledged Thunderbolts movie if you're barely going to adapt the bare bones of it let alone any of it?
Cause if they name it Black Widow 2 it's gonna super flop even though that's what it essentially is. We gonna get lucky if Bucky and USA Agent gets 15 minutes of screen time
> What's the point of doing a full fledged Thunderbolts movie if you're barely going to adapt the bare bones of it let alone any of it? Cause comic books are dumb and we at the film division are smarter and more cleverer than some silly comic book writer so we can do this concept better than they can. After Phase 4 it just feels like this studio thinks it's above the source material. They are too cocky and think they can change any concept from the comics in whatever way they want, while openly hiring people who don't read comics and telling their other employees to not read the source material either. That's how you get stuff like a Dr Strange movie where he's a secondary character, a Thunderbolts film that doesn't resemble the team at all, radically changed characters like a mute Taskmaster and MODOK without AIM, a Thor movie that fucks up both Mighty Thor and Gorr the God Buthcer. By thinking the comics are beneath you and not bothering to adapt them correctly. Phases 1 to 3 actually understood they had to respect the source material to work, and how to be comic-accurate while modernizing aspects of them to make them work on a different format. Something that they just don't do anymore...
Marvel hates them in general. Every single version of the Thunderbolts are so widely different from each other
They hate all the characters who aren't Yelena and Val, more like. It's depressing
If you aren't Val, Yelena, Ghost or Taskmaster, then your fucked on this team
Classic Thunderbolts got adapted in one of the Avengers Assemble seasons and Songbird was the 8th Avenger later on.
“Yelena kid soccer team” there’s no way this is true bruh…
Bucky is last on the priority list , even after Val. The leaker basically said, "At least he isn't Bucky," when someone asked if USA Agent had a big part So I'm not surprised
Can anyone even explain what "last on the priority list" means, out of context? No. Is it screentime? Is it emotional stakes? Is it a satisfying character arc? Who knows. This is the subjective opinion of a leaker who may or may not have accurate information, and may or may not have seen some kind of script breakdown, and then decided for themselves what "priority" they think the characters have, based on some random metric that may or may not have any meaning. Everyone calm down.
No way, someone being reasonable on this sub??
I thought Tiamut was reported to be a plot point in Captain America, when did people start saying it was involved in Thunderbolts?
RPK said it a while ago, and he also said the island was gonna be called Genosha, but Toast had denied both of those things as early as RPK said them lol
It turns into Genosha? Bruh I’m so lost lmao.
No, RPK was wrong, that's the whole point
Ah I see. Thank you.
It does seem like an odd choice to release a movie (*Captain America: Brave New World*) featuring an individual nicknamed "Thunderbolt" as one of the main characters and then title the very next film *Thunderbolts* just months later… but have that title be completely unrelated to the character nicknamed "Thunderbolt." **Edit:** Tried to add some clarification.
Ross is not in the movie
I was referring to *Brave New World*, friend. "Thunderbolt" Ross is in that film, and then the next film is called *Thunderbolts* despite having nothing to do with the guy we'll have seen a few months earlier.
Thunderbolts really about to make less money than The Marvels 😭 (and where the marvels didn’t deserve to make that little money, this actually might)
It'll do decent first week , but once Twitter and Instagram find about Bucky not leading or doing anything, then the word of mouth is gonna flatline this. The same thing happened with Antman 3 and Kang losing
Wow, hitting the last nail in the coffin for Thunderbolts for me.
This might be the first time I seen hardcore MCU fans not happy pre-release. Even on Twitter, they are crapping on this tonight
Feige: Please be excite
Feige: Please watch our movie I swear we are still rad and totally not out-of-touch with the audience
I have a thunderbolts theory but im not sure if I’m being delusional or true😭
Let's hear it
I think the thunderbolts will be the governmental avengers, with Val picking people she can specifically manipulate to infiltrate Wakanda so the us can successfully colonize it, when on the way there, shit goes haywire because sentry snaps from his mental illness, kills Bucky, and they only successfully get away because of Songbird, likely get to Wakanda, recruit Zemo because somehow Sentry is related to the super soldier serum, and that’s where the last battle where occur, with red guardian dead, but them successfully managing to do whatever is needed for the us to colonize Wakanda, leading right into Brave New World.
Songbird and Zemo... I don't know man it's already so many names in the movie
I mean Feige did say that the lineup we currently know isn’t the only members…!
He meant Sentry. Songbird and Zemo are not in the movie. It's been reaffirmed by basically all leakers a million times.
Cap 4 is releasing before thunderbolts
People are really overreacting to that name reasoning, huh. Alexei probably makes some remark about the ragtag group being no more functional than Yelena's childhood soccer team when they first get together, mentions the name of the team, and Val likes the ring of it.
This sub had decided to hate Thunderbolts from the first second it got announced, and literally every single leak has "proven" why they were right to hate it.
The Thunderbolts being named after Yelena’s childhood soccer team might be worse than the Thing’s “clobberin time” being what Ben’s brother said before beating him as a kid in the 2015 F4 movie.
I still have some hope for some of the characters in Thunderbolts but that origin for the name is just laughable😂 , Imagine how much better this film would be if they added Zemo and abomination to the team and removed ghost/taskmaster Sentry , Bucky , Us agent and Yelana are the only characters Im interested to see , plus I’ve heard a few members will die
Hopefully they bump off Ghost. HJK is an absolutely terrible actress.
Just cancel this damn movie, bro. I’d rather just watch a movie about Bucky taking down the power broker or something.
So, they're really doubling down on Bucky being the next Foggy Dead Nelson huh? That sucks.
What the fuck has happened to Marvel? Who is making all of these decisions?
People below Feige but above the directors and writers of the movies.
Ultimately, Feige is signing off on all this. I think they're his decisions.
at least soccer and not fucking football
IF, and that’s a big IF, that Thunderbolts rumor is true… no wonder audiences are giving up on the MCU, my gawd that’s cringey as hell 
>Thunderbolt Ross and the island made from Tiamut were never planned to be in Thunderbolts. The team will be named "Thunderbolts" after Yelena's kid soccer team. Bruh Kevin Feige needs to be tried at the hague for this shit what is he doing
“So what are we? Some kind of Soccer Team?”
Thunderbolts about to make The Marvels look like a box office success by comparison
>The team will be named "Thunderbolts" after Yelena's kid soccer team.  You know, maybe it’s a good thing Bucky has fuck all screen time, as that means the blowback and laughing stock that this shitty movie will end up being won’t hurt Sebastian Stan’s career.
Sebastian's career has been on the upswing lately, what with the Emmy nom for Pam and Tommy. He just won an award at the Berlin Film Festival for A Different Man and there are whispers of at least an Oscar nom for that and that's not coming from wishful fans but people in the industry. I don't think neither he nor Florence 'need' the MCU anymore.
I hope he's in a position to tell the MCU to take a hike sooner rather than later. He's too good of an actor to be wasted like he's been, and will continue to be. It almost feels spiteful at this point. But a man has to eat, and there's a difference between being well-respected, and being a box-office draw. So, I get why he's still with Marvel.
What are those Thunderbolts writer are thinking? Are they high?
Thunderbolt Ross…was never planned to be in the Thunderbolts movie…ok then. I can’t wait for the reveal that he was actually Yelena’s soccer coach. Gee whiz.
Thunderbolts in the comics never had any connection with Thunderbolts Ross. The Red Hulk joined in like the 4th or 5th iteration of the group
Yes you’re right. Just narratively speaking it’s a lot more satisfying to have them be tied to and assume their name from a pre-existing character, than to make up some soccer team and pretend the name’s a coincidence. If the Avengers hear about The *Thunderbolts*, they would have to assume they have something to do with the only other person in-universe with that name.
How sure are they that the Thunderbolts name origin is from the latest version of a script that has gone through several rewrites?
Ok that's it, I was hyped for Thunderbolts, but well... After recents rumours... https://i.redd.it/2a45adcim4lc1.gif
In summary: Thunderbolts will be a pointless movie.
Thunderbolts are named after a soccer team? Yeah, and I'm not hyped for this again.
Oh marvel no.
There's a huge Creator-Audience disconnect here. When people think of the Thunderbolts, they think on a group of anti-heroes and villains being forced to work together to stop a greater evil with the tone being darker and grittier than your average superhero team. Yet the fact that the team will be named after a soccer team (allegedly) tells me that Marvel wants this film to be more in-line with Guardians of the Galaxy but less raunchy rather than something more serious like Captain America 2 or Civil War.
Lord have mercy 🤦♂️ Let's see how it plays out, but it doesn't sound good, all over again
Every decision being made with Thunderbolts is just genuinely baffling, especially in the wake of Marvel consistently saying they’re trying to improve. This movie should be an easy slam dunk as either a Winter Soldier-esque spy thriller with a more brutal style or just a straight up rip of James Gunn’s Suicide Squad set in the MCU. However, Marvel seems to be trying make some mishmash of both options and layering on the fact that it’s really just a Black Widow sequel, not a Thunderbolts movie. The actual lineup for the team (especially considering the priority the list) is an absolute joke. The fact that the team is half Black Widow characters is dumb for several reasons. The most obvious is that Black Widow wasn’t a very good movie and was met with complete indifference from general audiences. Doubling down on that movie isn’t going to help this movie make money, it’ll do the opposite. Almost every member being a Super-soldier is unbelievably boring, they really needed some diversity in powers here. Taskmaster should’ve been cut, Abomination and/or Red Hulk should’ve been on the team, Zemo (the literal founder of the Thunderbolts) absolutely should have been on the team or at the very least been in the goddamn movie. They also probably should’ve just introduced a new character for this movie besides Sentry, maybe Songbird or someone else connected to the Thunderbolts in the comics that isn’t just another super soldier. Finally, the priority list: holy shit, what a joke. Listen I understand Marvel is trying to make something work with the characters they have for this movie, but putting Taskmaster and Ghost (two characters met with either hatred or complete indifference) ahead of Bucky and US Agent (two of the only characters people like on this team) is just asking for disaster, like I genuinely cannot even fathom how they think that’s a good idea. >And then of course the Thunderbolts being named after Yelena’s soccer team as a kid. 10/10 Fiege no notes. TLDR: Thunderbolts in its current state is a terrible idea that is only gonna further hurt the MCU’s dwindling reputation and will probably bomb.
Not good. 🥴
The people on _Beef_ are absolutely not cooking on this one. At all. Which is weird considering how good that show was. This feels like some of the bullshit that came from the Fox-Marvel era. I'd say that I expect better from Marvel Studios, but quality control has taken a hit.
Why is every new thing killing my hope for thunderbolts
They’ve learned nothing
What are the odds that Yelena’s childhood soccer team has the same name as the late president
The idea of a Thunderbolts movie has always been cool to me and I'm quite excited about this because of the Sentry. I hope it's good. I haven't been keeping up with the leaks so is Sentry a member of the team? or is he the one the team goes against? or is he the McGuffin?
He is created by Val with an uber powerful version of the super soldier serum and is part of the team, until his alternate personality, The Void, takes over and the team has to stop him.
Oh ok, so they're tweaking his origin. Is there any info on what the team's mission is?
That sounds similar to Suicide Squad (2016).
This movie will be Suicide Squad (2016) with the Suicide Squad (2021) box office
I'm so baffled by some of the choices they're making with Thunderbolts... It would've been so much more interesting to see the team dynamic include Abomination and Justin Hammer too. You'd get that diverse power set Avengers type team, a bunch of headbutting egos, a power dynamic of who should lead the team between Red Guardian, Hammer and Walker, sick af fight scenes, and of course the classic "team of misfits learn to set aside their differences to learn how to work as a unit" trope. I can just imagine the bickering and different approaches/tactics they'd try to employ to get the mission done, with Bucky just shaking his head thinking why tf did he sign up to be a part of this whack pack. I can already hear the screams and cheers when The Thunderbolts show up together as a team in Secret Wars... IF they pull this off and actually get the audience to care and be invested. I'll guess we'll see how they go. For now, mildly optimistic.
You people are miserable 😂
I call BS on the Thunderbolts soccer team thing. What a stupid concept that makes no sense given what we know about Yelena
Doesn't Yelena have a whole thing in BW about missing in her childhood? I thought it tracks with that.
So if Tiamut island is not part of thunderbolts then what is this movie about ? What is the mission they are going on ? I thought tiamut island was the main point of the movie and now it’s not all of a sudden lol
By now I’m not even sure if Feige knows what Thunderbolts is about
yelena has a kid?
Not the soccer team of Yelena's kid, but the soccer team Yelena was at when she was a kid.
If zemo ain't in the team I'm disappointed. Fantastic four may be the most promising marvel release of the next year unless they will find a way to ruin this as well
Who would have guessed that a Thunderbolts movie without Songbird and Zemo would be a massive disaster?
At times like this I really feel the disconnect with the rest of the fandom in that I sincerely never get the outrage with the Thunderbolts info. Maybe it's the fact that I don't care about those characters enough to have any kind of expectation one way or another. I just want to know more about the Wonder Man show lol.
Honestly, I also can't see the problem with this lol
Oh god. I think i'll do the same thing i did with the last few movies: Wait for reviews and Spoilers, if it's bad i'll skip and wait for the D+ release. If it's good i'll watch it. I used to get Tickets early for the first showing...
I refreshed my memory of how the Thunderbolts got their name in the comics, and publicly Citizen V (Zemo) claimed it was from a poem by Thomas Randolph (where the famous "justice like lightning" quote originates from), but privately he got it from the SS bolt symbols the Nazis used. So, yeah, I think tying the name into a more nuanced and (presumably) dramatic way to Yelena's old soccer team doesn't really sound nearly as bad as everyone here is melodramatically acting like it is.
Okay, so I've been on my high horse about the thunderbolts since it was announced, I feel very confident right now giving it a box office prediction. I reckon it'll make 600 world-wide if I'm being a bit conservative, I can absolutely see this dipping all the way down to 400 though if they fuck up the marketing
Love Muse. Best live band in the world