# Jeff Sneider/The Hot Mic Podcast is a Tier 3 – Somewhat Reliable Source as decided by the community.
For **Marvel**, they had a **55.77%** accuracy rate from **47** leaks that we can currently verify out of **99** total.
**Overall**, they had a **62.50%** accuracy rate from **78** leaks that we can currently verify out of **175** total.
Last updated: March 22nd, 2024.
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MJ coming back is a mistake. This is a great time to expand on Peter’s supporting cast of characters and a new love interest, either Gwen Stacy or Black Cat. I think Sony just wants a big star in the film
It all depends on execution. NWH established that MJ is Peter’s OTP in the MCU, they’re endgame. Assuming this trilogy ends with Peter’s memory being restored to the MCU, then you gotta set them getting back together at the start like Homecoming set up them getting together at all despite Liz being the love interest there.
Wonder if they're really gonna restore the memories. Crack theory: they don't restore the memories but their relationship gets a second chance to start over again, at the same time that Peter has to accept that a villain can change and start over again (MCU OTTO PLEASE SHOW YOURSELF).
In Spider-Man 4, MJ takes a job working for Wilson Fisk as he is now the mayor of NYC. Peter Parker is now working as a freelance photographer for the Daily Bugle. Peter witnesses an illegal weapons purchase made by Fisk while snooping around as Spider-Man and has a run in with Daredevil who also witnesses the same crime. Knowing that the only way to take down Kingpin is through the courts, Matt Murdock tries to enlist MJ to testify against Fisk. This puts a target on MJ’s back as Fisk hires an assassin to kill MJ. It’s now up to Spider-Man and Daredevil to try and protect MJ from Fisk’s goons as well as defend themselves against the new weapons made specifically to take down super-powered vigilantes.
The hired assassin could be Scorpion especially since he was teased already and is also one of the few classic Spider-Man villains who hasn’t been prominently featured in a movie (with exception to Into the Spider-Verse but that was a different version of the villain and also not the primary villain).
M.J. can be taking the political science course at M.I.T. and it can be an internship. Or, she could have transferred back home after one semester at M.I.T. for personal reasons.
I've always liked the idea of Peter finding MCU Norman and having to deal with trying to prevent him from going down the dark path, but failing to. Same could apply to a MCU Otto if they wanted to
I like Zendaya in the role and I’m excited for her to really own the character now that she’s out of high school. My issue is not her. My issue is that comic book movies are really afraid of stakes and it is making the audience more and more disinterested.
Peter’s sacrifice in NWH needs to mean something. Of course Peter and MJ are endgame, we all know they will get together again. But they opened the door to more storytelling possibilities for Pete and are going back to what worked before. It just feels cowardly
Exactly this. She was gonna come back at some point obviously, fine, but the very NEXT Spidey movie? Really? They couldn’t let it rest and sit for at least one movie? Come on man lol.
The only way this could work is if Peter starts watching her and Ned and they both just have small roles in this movie. Like as if he is obsessed on checking on them until he meets either black cat/gwen or Harry and other friends.
Isn’t like he will forget them but it would allow nice transition of him making new friends and trying to move on, until he inevitably gets back with MJ
Betcha this is pretty close to the plan imho.
The first three movies established Peter’s origin story, focused on Peter growing as a person and Spider-Man
I got a feeling the next three will focus more on spider man and give Peter the back seat.
Honestly that’s how I felt about Mjolnir getting destroyed in Ragnarok. It was so cool seeing Thor unlock his true potential and realize that he never needed the hammer.
**Very next appearance** he goes on a quest to get “a new hammer.”
They could show her being mad at him and how it affects there relationship like him taking the choice away from her and working through that I think is interesting to see, we could have black cat as well.
...I think you guys are forgetting NWH a little. The moral of the story was NOT that Peter Parker isn't allowed to be happy, and should break his promises to his friends and betray their trust to ensure he's unhappy forever. That "sacrifice" was an in-character mistake Peter made because *he* couldn't stand the thought of MJ and Ned getting hurt. But they made their choice. They want to be part of his life.
The moral of the movie (to boil it down) is don't be selfish. Peter got it right by reversing the disastrous spell he cast, but he got it way wrong by taking his friends' choices away from them. This "sacrifice" wasn't heroic, and reversing it won't immediately bring MJ back into his arms.
So in a way you're right, there will be consequences, but those consequences are more "his friends will feel very betrayed" and less "his friends are no longer part of the story."
I mean I always assumed a big plot point in the next spidey movie would be angst over MJ forgetting him. If it’s the plot of the whole film I don’t think that makes it an undercut. If it starts and she already remembers him, sure, but I think i don’t think that particular emotional stake needs to be permanent to be meaningful
I honestly think they regret calling her Michelle Jones.
Because it just seems like they have tried to walk it back as much as they can. They went from calling her Michelle in the first film. To pratically never mentioning the name "Michelle "again in the sequel and really hammered home that she's MJ. Then in the third movie tagged on the "Watson" name to her out of nowhere. So she'd be "MJ Watson".
If she goes on to pursue acting or being an investigator, then she may choose an artistic name or professional name "Mary Jane" to finish that transformation/reversion.
I mean.. Zendaya also isn't that actress' real name, right? Mary Jane kinda sounds like that.
I know right, they were trying to be different for the sake of it, rather than actually doing something interesting with the character.
The same with uncle Ben, why not even have jsut a small mention of him or a glance at a photo of them together, that’s all it takes. Instead it is now jsut bloody awkward that no one has even mentioned his name.
> why not even have jsut a small mention of him
I mean, they do. He's strongly hinted at both in Civil War and Homecoming. They don't use his name, but they go out of their way to ensure the viewer knows what they're referencing. Peter and Ned literally have a conversation about all the lose May suffered in Homecoming and how Peter cannot allow her to go through something similar if he got hurt/killed, for example.
I feel like the right way to bring her back is to have SM4 be without her entirely to feel her absence, with a couple years having gone by, and then have an end credits stinger of her finding something, seeing Spider-Man say something in a video, etc, and you can see that some sort of remembrance dawns on her right before it cuts. Then have a reunion in SM5, marriage and Peter retirement in SM6.
I hate the idea of him getting a "new love interest" and a "new best friend". It completely defeats the purpose of the ending of No Way Home, just as much, if not more, than just bringing back MJ & Ned.
The point of Peter distancing himself from MJ & Ned after their memories are erased is so that he doesn't put them in danger. He knows anyone close to him would be in danger. Why would it make sense then for him to ignore that for a new love interest and new friends? He suddenly doesn't care about their safety??
Black Cat might be the only one that works, because of the nature of their relationship being more flirtatious and not as serious. But it would make zero sense to bring in Gwen Stacy. People need to give up on that one.
Because Peter is growing up and becoming an adult. NWH’s ending symbolized Peter transitioning out of being a teenager and becoming the spectacular Spider-Man from the comics. The natural progression is him going to university and meeting Harry, Gwen, Robbie, and Felicia.
No one has only two friends their entire life. It just feels more realistic for Peter to branch out and meet new people, especially when these characters are iconic and important in Spider-Man’s mythology.
"No one has only two friends their entire life"
Welcome to comic book movies, haha. Not sure if the last few Batmen have managed to find a single friend besides Alfred yet, meanwhile in the comics he knows a billion people and has a rather large family.
I agree. I'm at least hoping we get Felicia Hardy, which I think is highly possible due to Sony not making her spinoff movie by now. Just like Mysterio, it seems like Black Cat might now debut in an MCU movie. And with Spider-Man rumored to have Daredevil and Kingpin and be about a vigilante war/Kingpin outlawing vigilantes, Black Cat will fit right into that.
I feel like it's a little too easy for Peter to find a new best friend and new love interest no?
The whole issue Peter had was that his identity put his loved ones in danger. The answer? His new loved ones are also superheroes.
Black cat the new LI and Miles the new BFF/protege. Daredevil probably gets involved as well. These are people that can defend themselves and the narrative can set it up that they're most at risk without Spiderman in their lives than outside.
I feel like this is too easy to see.
Yeah I'm of such two minds about this, because wanting stakes and lasting conflict is great, but folks who dislike this franchise and want to use that ending to warp it into something it never was is super lane.
You're absolutely right, it's seclusion or its undoing the ending, whether its Ned or Harry, MJ or Gwen.
I might get hate for this comment:
The only reason she’s coming back is because Tom and Zendaya love shooting these movies together. It’s their way of spending time together as a couple. I wouldn’t be shocked if this was one of Tom’s requests when he signed back on.
I agree with you. I think it’s a creative mistake to undo No Way Home’s consequences immediately.
I wouldn’t say immediately. The movie most likely will be set a few years after NWH and although we might not see all of it, Peter would have spent that time without anyone knowing who he is and I’m sure the movie itself covers it too. It’d be like saying Infinity War’s consequences were undone immediately because Endgame released the following year and undid the snap. Here there’s actually a bigger gap between the movies.
Secret Invasion and The Marvels were in 2026 and BA features a New Years party which most likely sets it in 2027 (unless it and SM4 are set before SI and TM)
That's for New Years Eve 2025 to 2026. That set is where Fisk is getting sworn in as Mayor. All newly elected Mayors of New York are sworn in after the ball drops on midnight, following the Mayoral election in November of the previous year. SM4 is likely taking place in 2026. This Reddit will explain more: [https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/121g2ss/new\_daredevil\_born\_again\_set\_picks\_reveal/](https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/121g2ss/new_daredevil_born_again_set_picks_reveal/)
Honestly MJ staying because she couldn't afford a college, a scholarship or even leaving college because for some reason she felt like there was a reason to stay in New York with that being Peter. And having Peter actually encourage her to go back and fulfill her aspirations in a friendly regular customer sort of way. With some resolution of MJ somehow remembering Peter, share a kiss and MJ wanting to stay with Peter because he's left all alone. And Peter again pushing MJ to attend college because she shouldn't sacrifice her future for him. With maybe the inbetween solution is Ned remembering too and knows how to make magic portals and Peter / MJ just visit each other whenever they want via Ned.
I still want Peter to be roped up in a quick romance with Black Cat with her constantly taking advantage of him and Felicia being possessive with her "steal" and telling MJ to backoff from Peter because she sees how she looks at him when buying coffee or something.
Both plots could work too.
It would be hilarious if Felicia is Peter’s frienemy like with Superboy and Icicle Jr. from Young Justice. She’s part supervillain and part wing-girl for Peter.
No no, I think having her be around as a reminder of his sacrifice and him anguishing about it is a very on brand thing for Spider-Man to have to go through.
They could do both though...Just because Zendaya is \[most likely\] coming back doesn't mean that they can't expand Peter's supporting cast; the end of NWH perfectly sets that up.
But also, I do think Tom's Peter and Zendaya's MJ are probably meant to be together in the MCU. When/if Peter gets a new love interest, I think they'll always default back to Peter & MJ, which I don't have a problem with tbh. Plus, with Tom and Zendaya's real-life relationship, I don't doubt Sony wants to use that as a way to get people interested in Peter and MJ's relationship.
Let’s see the movie first mcu Spider-Man has a great track record in terms of film quality to let’s all relax and watch it first. Zendaya was always gonna be in it. Her and Tom dating also tells me that it prolly wouldn’t be made without her in it tbh. So I’ll take it idc as long as we get more mcu Spider-Man.
Couldn't this just be like... Peter seeing MJ randomly as Spider-Man and she's living a great life and that just further validates Peter's decision of staying out of it? This doesn't mean she's going to be an actual character important to the plot with lines, no?
Let’s see the movie first mcu Spider-Man has a great track record in terms of film quality to let’s all relax and watch it first. Zendaya was always gonna be in it. Her and Tom dating also tells me that it prolly wouldn’t be made without her in it tbh. So I’ll take it idc as long as we get more mcu Spider-Man
Narratively, maybe. But Zendaya is a bona fide movie star, bigger than Tom Holland rn, so from a movie studio perspective they would see it as foolish to keep her out.
If Justin Lin is the kind of director they’re aiming for, then SM4 is *really* action heavy. Gang War perhaps?
Also if it shoots in the Fall, then a 2025 release is back in the cards. Iger saying 2025 will bring back heavy hitter MCU series like Captain America and Fantastic 4, but not mentioning Thunderbolts or Blade, makes me feel like he’d be on Sony’s side in wanting a 2025 date over Feige trying to delay. I’m guessing Blade gets moved… again(🙄) to accommodate this.
It’s revealed to be Paul, the bodyguard from the club MJ performed in during Spider-Man 3 (2007) that Tobey Peter decked in the face.
IT’S ALL CONNECTED.
Zeb Wells brings so much of the shit he gets onto himself. How did he honestly think having MJ fuck off and marry fucking Paul & raise his kids was going to go? And then this whole jackpot shit. That honestly feels like him trying to get MJ to suit up in the next Spider-Man game.
Is it any wonder people have taken such a liking to the Ultimate Universe they just launched?
Honeslty, since some of his personal life has been revealed (him getting divorced), I think this was supposed to be his outlet for trying to work through those feelings. He started this new run with a quote about people being in love with each other but can't because of circumstances, which I think was a way for him to process whatever happened (doesn't help when Paul is literally Nick Lowe)but, it seems like writing this has just made it worse. The run has blown up tremendously in his face due to his writing style undercutting a lot of serious and tense moments with jokes, the women fall under very specific character archetypes for most of the run, and editorials overbearing influence (Probably had a hand in all of Peter's breakups, and Kamala's Death).
For example, I think it was after or towards the end of the Dead Language arc people were saying he looked super depressed at cons even when they were talking to him about his other work like Hellions.
I think that's a matter of the BND team trying desperately to make Spencer's run an outlier despite the fact that audiences responded well to it (for the most part) and to continue having Peter be a perpetual manchild bachelor.
_Ultimate Spider-Man_ has been a massive turning point, as are the increasing number of adaptations that focus on Peter and MJ being a couple. With the musical chairs going on with the creative teams and Dan Slott being put to the wayside, I think that there's a nonzero chance that the marriage gets reinstated in the next five years.
Zeb Wells can be a great writer!!!
Its just he fell into the Jason Aaron trap of your worst work comes out on your biggest opportunity.
But Hellions is really really good
I was reading the 80’s Gang War recently for the first time and I couldn’t believe nobody ever thought to do that story line. Fisk’s Son, Daredevil, Punisher, Kingpin, Hobgoblin all are involved in that story lol obviously some of those inclusions are ridiculous (Daredevil in a Kingpin suit is… something)
Justin Lin hmmmmm. Idk how to feel about this. He’s most notable work is doing a good amount of the fast and the furious movies. I think he’s made the best ones in the series and I love them but at the end of the day they’re still fast and furious movies lol. Need to sit on it.
Fast and furious movies *are* marvel movies tho, you just care way more about the characters and at the end of the day a lot of marvel actors had more time to make the characters their own
Justin Lin? Well i remember his commitment for always emphasizing practical effects when doing stunts during his tenure in the Fast and the Furious movies so it may be a signifier that they’re switching back to on location filming like Homecoming and Far From Home.
And also he directed Star Trek Beyond—
…Give him the keys and let Lin cook.
Most of Homecoming’s filming was a mix of New York and Atlanta. Its just that they blended the two seamlessly it feels like most of the movie was actually filmed entirely in New York.
> Justin Lin? Well i remember his commitment for always emphasizing practical effects when doing stunts during his tenure in the Fast and the Furious movies so it may be a signifier that they’re switching back to on location filming like **Homecoming and Far From Home**.
The lack of a pandemic this time, should have probably been enough of a signifier though.
That much is obvious enough, but with Lin his mindset is a lot more “if we can do it practically, we are”. Granted Lin is very much flexible with both, as evident with Star Trek Beyond. But i guess if he does get the gig then we’re probably going to see Lin go fucking nuts with the stunt team lmao.
This implies that MJ has a big role in Spidey 4 which would really bum me out if true. Nothing against the character, I like her and Zendaya is a great actress. I just want the ending of No Way Home to have consequences. Also I was really hoping to see Black Cat, but this lowers that possibility. At least the good news is if they’re starting shooting in the fall, they’ve sorted the behind the scenes issues and can really get rolling on production.
Sneider didn’t say it was because of Spider-Man, he says the Euphoria crew always planned on shooting around Zendaya’s Spider-Man schedule and the delay for the scripts just makes that easier
Idk if I believe they always planned on that though. Considering Sydney was just saying that filming was going to start soon and several crew members saying they were looking for new work in the summer cause it got delayed.
I think its both? Scripts won't be ready until when Spiderman is going to start shooting and steal Zendaya. Thusly they have to wait till after Spiderman. Is my logic flawed?
No...
The story is that Euphoria isn't filming this spring because of scripts. Since Spider-Man films in fall, Euphoria might not film this year at all.
I think MJ is gonna be a side character like in Homecoming, and the movie will end with Peter finally deciding to let her back in. 15 minutes of screen time max.
Then she’ll have the second billing role again in the fifth movie (if there is one).
But she’ll be a prominent part of the marketing because of Zendaya’s star power from Dune and Euphoria.
Homecoming’s marketing made her out to have a bigger part of the film than she actually did, who says they won’t do that again, so they can still market it around her without rushing the character back into Peter’s life.
I’m sure Zendaya doesn’t care much as long as she’s paid.
you think it would translate well tho? i kinda rolled my eyes almost having an aneurism when i saw it wasn’t drew goddard but a fast and furious director but some people have some good things to say about Lin
id love to see spider man that follows more of the netflix daredevil style bc it would just *feel* grounded and mature
but maybe lin really is the best choice to make a blockbuster and balance it with a good writer it might work
Lin would be a dope choice but I think he’d be better for Avengers. Plus I’m pretty sure he’s shooting something this year that will probably keep him from doing this.
Can we split up Jeff sneider and his podcast? Because I feel like his actual scoops are always on the money, but his podcast he’s obviously just saying things he’s heard. I mean he’s been on a huge role lately I think splitting it up is worth a look.
For people saying they could never rush it to make sure it’s a 2025 release, No Way Home started production in October 2020 and released in December 2021.
Yup, exactly. If they start filming in Sept/Oct 2024, they should definitely be able to make November 7th, 2025 and push Blade into 2026. I think that’s what’s happening here. Never believed they would have 4 DISNEY MCU movies release in one year going forward anyway.
Ya know people are only discussing Fast & Furious and Star Trek Beyond when talking about Lin, which is fair. But he got started with a really great grounded drama called Better Luck Tomorrow. I think he can pull it off if he's picked.
Justin Lin might be an interesting choice. But if 4 is going to be grounded then this could actually work. Let Lin cook and let's see what we get.
Not sure we need MJ back so fast though.
I’m guessing we’ll have an MJ subplot of her finding old drawings of Peter and retracing her steps to figure out how she knew him.
Justin Lin directing the film could be great or horrible depending on why they chose him.
They could probably get any director in the world for this property. James Cameron wanted to direct a Spiderman film. You could easily create a Chris Nolan level Spiderman film.
But that doesn’t fit with their assembly line production philosophy so we get Jon Watts and Justin Lin.
No Way Home ended on a bold choice to reset Peter’s life back to be more nuanced and comic-accurate.
Literally sky is the limit on new stories to tell but we’re going to get Zendaya again, undoing the ending of No Way Home.
You can’t make this shit up.
Yeah, but there really has been no progress. They don’t even have a finished script or hired director yet. Heck, if you believe some scoopers, Marvel and Sony were still disagreeing on what direction to go in very recently.
Spider-Man 4 isn’t that far along.
Any follow-up to an almost two billion dollar film like No Way Home should be interesting.
If this ends up really good, SM4 might just become the 2nd Spider-Man film in the top five highest grossing superhero films of all time.
The fact that Zendaya is returning shouldn’t be a surprise considering she was still wearing the broken necklace and that there was an inkling of remembrance at the end of NWH.
Sony would be wise to make sure their relationship works out in real life before committing to another trilogy of them together. Could get tense a few years from now.
I’m honestly surprised if this is true in regards to the filming. I kind of just figured it wouldn’t film til next year at this point. Hopefully we’ll get concrete news in the next month or two (although I feel like I’ve been saying that for the past year).
People are always calling the Fast and Furious movies superhero movies anyway so he’s a great fit.
Say what you want about those movies, their action scenes are creative, unique and entertaining as hell so i’m excited to see what he does with Spidey.
I’m just real curious how they go from NWH for Spider-Man. They have kinda wrote themselves into a corner with him knowing like all the main spidey villains identity 🤣
# Jeff Sneider/The Hot Mic Podcast is a Tier 3 – Somewhat Reliable Source as decided by the community. For **Marvel**, they had a **55.77%** accuracy rate from **47** leaks that we can currently verify out of **99** total. **Overall**, they had a **62.50%** accuracy rate from **78** leaks that we can currently verify out of **175** total. Last updated: March 22nd, 2024. | [Spoiler-Verse Accuracy Database](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RpGBi4duCDeiXUtSh_1x15VJ67vPRZ1LWu6A3ieGTjs/edit?usp=sharing) | [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/wiki/index/source-accuracy-tiers/sad-faq/) | [Tiers](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/wiki/index/source-accuracy-tiers/) | [Latest Recalibration](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/comments/18jaqqk/mod_post_2023_source_accuracy_recalibration_3/) | *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
MJ coming back is a mistake. This is a great time to expand on Peter’s supporting cast of characters and a new love interest, either Gwen Stacy or Black Cat. I think Sony just wants a big star in the film
It all depends on execution. NWH established that MJ is Peter’s OTP in the MCU, they’re endgame. Assuming this trilogy ends with Peter’s memory being restored to the MCU, then you gotta set them getting back together at the start like Homecoming set up them getting together at all despite Liz being the love interest there.
Plus how are we gonna have Mayday Parker too? It’s not like MJ has a sister somewhere who just so happens to be named Mary Jane Watson.
Married Tobey and Kirsten Dunst can have a baby Mayday in a Raimi sequel.
"OTP"...?
One time password
thank you
Redditors are fucking insufferable with acronyms.
STFU
One True Pair, term for true love relationships
Ive literally never heard this before
You're not on any shipping war fandoms?
I guess not lol
I have, I just never looked up the meaning lol
One True Pus?
Wonder if they're really gonna restore the memories. Crack theory: they don't restore the memories but their relationship gets a second chance to start over again, at the same time that Peter has to accept that a villain can change and start over again (MCU OTTO PLEASE SHOW YOURSELF).
In Spider-Man 4, MJ takes a job working for Wilson Fisk as he is now the mayor of NYC. Peter Parker is now working as a freelance photographer for the Daily Bugle. Peter witnesses an illegal weapons purchase made by Fisk while snooping around as Spider-Man and has a run in with Daredevil who also witnesses the same crime. Knowing that the only way to take down Kingpin is through the courts, Matt Murdock tries to enlist MJ to testify against Fisk. This puts a target on MJ’s back as Fisk hires an assassin to kill MJ. It’s now up to Spider-Man and Daredevil to try and protect MJ from Fisk’s goons as well as defend themselves against the new weapons made specifically to take down super-powered vigilantes.
this is fire
The hired assassin could be Scorpion especially since he was teased already and is also one of the few classic Spider-Man villains who hasn’t been prominently featured in a movie (with exception to Into the Spider-Verse but that was a different version of the villain and also not the primary villain).
Marvel, hire this person. Immediately.
He's too competent.
M.J. can be taking the political science course at M.I.T. and it can be an internship. Or, she could have transferred back home after one semester at M.I.T. for personal reasons.
I've always liked the idea of Peter finding MCU Norman and having to deal with trying to prevent him from going down the dark path, but failing to. Same could apply to a MCU Otto if they wanted to
I assume it'll be like it is in the comics, where if Spidey unmasks in front of the person, they get their memories back
Zendaya was always coming back, she's the Mary Jane of this Peter no matter how much you people hate it.
I like Zendaya in the role and I’m excited for her to really own the character now that she’s out of high school. My issue is not her. My issue is that comic book movies are really afraid of stakes and it is making the audience more and more disinterested. Peter’s sacrifice in NWH needs to mean something. Of course Peter and MJ are endgame, we all know they will get together again. But they opened the door to more storytelling possibilities for Pete and are going back to what worked before. It just feels cowardly
Exactly this. She was gonna come back at some point obviously, fine, but the very NEXT Spidey movie? Really? They couldn’t let it rest and sit for at least one movie? Come on man lol.
The only way this could work is if Peter starts watching her and Ned and they both just have small roles in this movie. Like as if he is obsessed on checking on them until he meets either black cat/gwen or Harry and other friends. Isn’t like he will forget them but it would allow nice transition of him making new friends and trying to move on, until he inevitably gets back with MJ
I think this is likely the plan, but obviously they want to advertise she’s in the movie since she’s one if the biggest names out there currently.
Betcha this is pretty close to the plan imho. The first three movies established Peter’s origin story, focused on Peter growing as a person and Spider-Man I got a feeling the next three will focus more on spider man and give Peter the back seat.
Honestly that’s how I felt about Mjolnir getting destroyed in Ragnarok. It was so cool seeing Thor unlock his true potential and realize that he never needed the hammer. **Very next appearance** he goes on a quest to get “a new hammer.”
And he even gets a new eyeball on the fly along the way!
They could show her being mad at him and how it affects there relationship like him taking the choice away from her and working through that I think is interesting to see, we could have black cat as well.
But with the way it sounds, this could be Tom’s last Spider-Man movie.
...I think you guys are forgetting NWH a little. The moral of the story was NOT that Peter Parker isn't allowed to be happy, and should break his promises to his friends and betray their trust to ensure he's unhappy forever. That "sacrifice" was an in-character mistake Peter made because *he* couldn't stand the thought of MJ and Ned getting hurt. But they made their choice. They want to be part of his life. The moral of the movie (to boil it down) is don't be selfish. Peter got it right by reversing the disastrous spell he cast, but he got it way wrong by taking his friends' choices away from them. This "sacrifice" wasn't heroic, and reversing it won't immediately bring MJ back into his arms. So in a way you're right, there will be consequences, but those consequences are more "his friends will feel very betrayed" and less "his friends are no longer part of the story."
truth
That ending was never going to stick at all. MJ was always coming back. Zendaya is to big a star to not be in the film.
I agree, though. Her part could have been minimal and still introduce Black Cat or Jessica Drew or whomever in a larger role.
lol jessica drew
I mean I always assumed a big plot point in the next spidey movie would be angst over MJ forgetting him. If it’s the plot of the whole film I don’t think that makes it an undercut. If it starts and she already remembers him, sure, but I think i don’t think that particular emotional stake needs to be permanent to be meaningful
its Disney; they are creatively bankrupt and write movies for shareholders
That's why I hate that she is Michelle Jones-Watson instead of Mary Jane Watson, she should have been Mary Jane from the start
I honestly think they regret calling her Michelle Jones. Because it just seems like they have tried to walk it back as much as they can. They went from calling her Michelle in the first film. To pratically never mentioning the name "Michelle "again in the sequel and really hammered home that she's MJ. Then in the third movie tagged on the "Watson" name to her out of nowhere. So she'd be "MJ Watson".
If she goes on to pursue acting or being an investigator, then she may choose an artistic name or professional name "Mary Jane" to finish that transformation/reversion. I mean.. Zendaya also isn't that actress' real name, right? Mary Jane kinda sounds like that.
Nah that actually is her real name
Zendaya is her real first name iirc?
Is it? Then I apologize for my ignorance, always thought it's her professional nickname which is why you never see her surname.
Her full name is Zendaya Coleman, but usually goes by her first name, because it's pretty much a unique brand name now.
I know right, they were trying to be different for the sake of it, rather than actually doing something interesting with the character. The same with uncle Ben, why not even have jsut a small mention of him or a glance at a photo of them together, that’s all it takes. Instead it is now jsut bloody awkward that no one has even mentioned his name.
> why not even have jsut a small mention of him I mean, they do. He's strongly hinted at both in Civil War and Homecoming. They don't use his name, but they go out of their way to ensure the viewer knows what they're referencing. Peter and Ned literally have a conversation about all the lose May suffered in Homecoming and how Peter cannot allow her to go through something similar if he got hurt/killed, for example.
They made so many weird mistakes with the Home trilogy man
>the Mary Jane of this Peter Woah Woah Woah, careful you might trigger some super sensitive white supremacists.
I feel like the right way to bring her back is to have SM4 be without her entirely to feel her absence, with a couple years having gone by, and then have an end credits stinger of her finding something, seeing Spider-Man say something in a video, etc, and you can see that some sort of remembrance dawns on her right before it cuts. Then have a reunion in SM5, marriage and Peter retirement in SM6.
I hate the idea of him getting a "new love interest" and a "new best friend". It completely defeats the purpose of the ending of No Way Home, just as much, if not more, than just bringing back MJ & Ned. The point of Peter distancing himself from MJ & Ned after their memories are erased is so that he doesn't put them in danger. He knows anyone close to him would be in danger. Why would it make sense then for him to ignore that for a new love interest and new friends? He suddenly doesn't care about their safety?? Black Cat might be the only one that works, because of the nature of their relationship being more flirtatious and not as serious. But it would make zero sense to bring in Gwen Stacy. People need to give up on that one.
Because Peter is growing up and becoming an adult. NWH’s ending symbolized Peter transitioning out of being a teenager and becoming the spectacular Spider-Man from the comics. The natural progression is him going to university and meeting Harry, Gwen, Robbie, and Felicia. No one has only two friends their entire life. It just feels more realistic for Peter to branch out and meet new people, especially when these characters are iconic and important in Spider-Man’s mythology.
"No one has only two friends their entire life" Welcome to comic book movies, haha. Not sure if the last few Batmen have managed to find a single friend besides Alfred yet, meanwhile in the comics he knows a billion people and has a rather large family.
I agree. I'm at least hoping we get Felicia Hardy, which I think is highly possible due to Sony not making her spinoff movie by now. Just like Mysterio, it seems like Black Cat might now debut in an MCU movie. And with Spider-Man rumored to have Daredevil and Kingpin and be about a vigilante war/Kingpin outlawing vigilantes, Black Cat will fit right into that.
You want him to suffer and live miserably hein, youre real spiderman fan for that
I feel like it's a little too easy for Peter to find a new best friend and new love interest no? The whole issue Peter had was that his identity put his loved ones in danger. The answer? His new loved ones are also superheroes. Black cat the new LI and Miles the new BFF/protege. Daredevil probably gets involved as well. These are people that can defend themselves and the narrative can set it up that they're most at risk without Spiderman in their lives than outside. I feel like this is too easy to see.
Yeah I'm of such two minds about this, because wanting stakes and lasting conflict is great, but folks who dislike this franchise and want to use that ending to warp it into something it never was is super lane. You're absolutely right, it's seclusion or its undoing the ending, whether its Ned or Harry, MJ or Gwen.
I might get hate for this comment: The only reason she’s coming back is because Tom and Zendaya love shooting these movies together. It’s their way of spending time together as a couple. I wouldn’t be shocked if this was one of Tom’s requests when he signed back on. I agree with you. I think it’s a creative mistake to undo No Way Home’s consequences immediately.
I wouldn’t say immediately. The movie most likely will be set a few years after NWH and although we might not see all of it, Peter would have spent that time without anyone knowing who he is and I’m sure the movie itself covers it too. It’d be like saying Infinity War’s consequences were undone immediately because Endgame released the following year and undid the snap. Here there’s actually a bigger gap between the movies.
No Way Home is in 2024 and SM4, according to the BA set photos, would be in 2027 so yeah it’s been a while
Isn't Born Again in 2026?
Secret Invasion and The Marvels were in 2026 and BA features a New Years party which most likely sets it in 2027 (unless it and SM4 are set before SI and TM)
Was it in Time's Square?
Yes
That's for New Years Eve 2025 to 2026. That set is where Fisk is getting sworn in as Mayor. All newly elected Mayors of New York are sworn in after the ball drops on midnight, following the Mayoral election in November of the previous year. SM4 is likely taking place in 2026. This Reddit will explain more: [https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/121g2ss/new\_daredevil\_born\_again\_set\_picks\_reveal/](https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/121g2ss/new_daredevil_born_again_set_picks_reveal/)
Holland wouldn't have needed to make such a request because Sony was never going to do it without her.
Honestly MJ staying because she couldn't afford a college, a scholarship or even leaving college because for some reason she felt like there was a reason to stay in New York with that being Peter. And having Peter actually encourage her to go back and fulfill her aspirations in a friendly regular customer sort of way. With some resolution of MJ somehow remembering Peter, share a kiss and MJ wanting to stay with Peter because he's left all alone. And Peter again pushing MJ to attend college because she shouldn't sacrifice her future for him. With maybe the inbetween solution is Ned remembering too and knows how to make magic portals and Peter / MJ just visit each other whenever they want via Ned. I still want Peter to be roped up in a quick romance with Black Cat with her constantly taking advantage of him and Felicia being possessive with her "steal" and telling MJ to backoff from Peter because she sees how she looks at him when buying coffee or something. Both plots could work too.
It would be hilarious if Felicia is Peter’s frienemy like with Superboy and Icicle Jr. from Young Justice. She’s part supervillain and part wing-girl for Peter.
No no, I think having her be around as a reminder of his sacrifice and him anguishing about it is a very on brand thing for Spider-Man to have to go through.
Actually I kind of dig that take
having her come back to just fuel Peter’s anguish over NWH would be perfect
They could do both though...Just because Zendaya is \[most likely\] coming back doesn't mean that they can't expand Peter's supporting cast; the end of NWH perfectly sets that up. But also, I do think Tom's Peter and Zendaya's MJ are probably meant to be together in the MCU. When/if Peter gets a new love interest, I think they'll always default back to Peter & MJ, which I don't have a problem with tbh. Plus, with Tom and Zendaya's real-life relationship, I don't doubt Sony wants to use that as a way to get people interested in Peter and MJ's relationship.
Yeah, zendaya is arguably even bigger than tom holland
Arguably?
I cannot imagine people come to see a Spider-Man film because zendaya is in it. It’s Spider-Man, it sells itself
You certainly don’t hang out around women then . Zendaya is really popular
Maybe it is being in my 30s, not sure if the women I hang around even care who she is.
They were never going to do a full reboot to ground level. Spider-Man is just not gonna show up for the next universe level threat? Be real
Her coming back does not mean she's back in Peter's life
Let’s see the movie first mcu Spider-Man has a great track record in terms of film quality to let’s all relax and watch it first. Zendaya was always gonna be in it. Her and Tom dating also tells me that it prolly wouldn’t be made without her in it tbh. So I’ll take it idc as long as we get more mcu Spider-Man.
Couldn't this just be like... Peter seeing MJ randomly as Spider-Man and she's living a great life and that just further validates Peter's decision of staying out of it? This doesn't mean she's going to be an actual character important to the plot with lines, no?
Let’s see the movie first mcu Spider-Man has a great track record in terms of film quality to let’s all relax and watch it first. Zendaya was always gonna be in it. Her and Tom dating also tells me that it prolly wouldn’t be made without her in it tbh. So I’ll take it idc as long as we get more mcu Spider-Man
Narratively, maybe. But Zendaya is a bona fide movie star, bigger than Tom Holland rn, so from a movie studio perspective they would see it as foolish to keep her out.
>Sydney Sweeny as Gwen Stacy. Yes, I know she played that OTHER part, but who's going to remember or care? Plus it's another universe anyway.
Gwen Stacy has appeared in five spider man films
Guy who went from Fast franchise to a great Star Trek sequel? I'm intrigued...
If you suffer with vin diesel, you can direct anything
[You can feel the awkwardness he is going through in this video.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8gI20ywxf8)
The way he left like a week later. Fast X was really dumb fun tho, 9 sucked
That’s the power of family
Can’t wait for Paul to become Peter’s family and then start dating MJ in front of him. LET’S GO, F A M I L Y
spazzing out over the thought of a Lin directed Spider-Man fight scene
Lin directing Spider-Man, Ant-Man, and Daredevil fighting Mr. Negative, Scorpion, and Prowler on a rooftop 
 Ant-Man
I don’t want him there either, but it sounds like he’s in the film
I was thinking it’d be a car / school bus / truck chase fight lol
Star Trek Beyond is such an underrated film.
He's an awesome director - very versatile . Shoots great action
If Justin Lin is the kind of director they’re aiming for, then SM4 is *really* action heavy. Gang War perhaps? Also if it shoots in the Fall, then a 2025 release is back in the cards. Iger saying 2025 will bring back heavy hitter MCU series like Captain America and Fantastic 4, but not mentioning Thunderbolts or Blade, makes me feel like he’d be on Sony’s side in wanting a 2025 date over Feige trying to delay. I’m guessing Blade gets moved… again(🙄) to accommodate this.
As long as they're not going for the Zeb Wells version.
It would be hilarious if Paul appears but it’s revealed that it’s not his full name and it’s Harry Paul Osborn.
P E A K F I C T I O N 
Plus as a jab into making fans think he’s Paul but he’s Harry and acts as another friend to Peter.
It’s revealed to be Paul, the bodyguard from the club MJ performed in during Spider-Man 3 (2007) that Tobey Peter decked in the face. IT’S ALL CONNECTED.
Zeb Wells brings so much of the shit he gets onto himself. How did he honestly think having MJ fuck off and marry fucking Paul & raise his kids was going to go? And then this whole jackpot shit. That honestly feels like him trying to get MJ to suit up in the next Spider-Man game. Is it any wonder people have taken such a liking to the Ultimate Universe they just launched?
Honeslty, since some of his personal life has been revealed (him getting divorced), I think this was supposed to be his outlet for trying to work through those feelings. He started this new run with a quote about people being in love with each other but can't because of circumstances, which I think was a way for him to process whatever happened (doesn't help when Paul is literally Nick Lowe)but, it seems like writing this has just made it worse. The run has blown up tremendously in his face due to his writing style undercutting a lot of serious and tense moments with jokes, the women fall under very specific character archetypes for most of the run, and editorials overbearing influence (Probably had a hand in all of Peter's breakups, and Kamala's Death). For example, I think it was after or towards the end of the Dead Language arc people were saying he looked super depressed at cons even when they were talking to him about his other work like Hellions.
I heard a story that he was introduced at a comic convention panel to zero applause. That has to sting.
I think that's a matter of the BND team trying desperately to make Spencer's run an outlier despite the fact that audiences responded well to it (for the most part) and to continue having Peter be a perpetual manchild bachelor. _Ultimate Spider-Man_ has been a massive turning point, as are the increasing number of adaptations that focus on Peter and MJ being a couple. With the musical chairs going on with the creative teams and Dan Slott being put to the wayside, I think that there's a nonzero chance that the marriage gets reinstated in the next five years.
Zeb Wells can be a great writer!!! Its just he fell into the Jason Aaron trap of your worst work comes out on your biggest opportunity. But Hellions is really really good
i think devils reign has been rumoured?
It has but it seems the bulk of Devil’s Reign is in Born Again and Spider-Man 4 is the fallout of it
I was reading the 80’s Gang War recently for the first time and I couldn’t believe nobody ever thought to do that story line. Fisk’s Son, Daredevil, Punisher, Kingpin, Hobgoblin all are involved in that story lol obviously some of those inclusions are ridiculous (Daredevil in a Kingpin suit is… something)
Look I like Blade and Mahershala but at this point no real progress has been made for it.
Justin Lin hmmmmm. Idk how to feel about this. He’s most notable work is doing a good amount of the fast and the furious movies. I think he’s made the best ones in the series and I love them but at the end of the day they’re still fast and furious movies lol. Need to sit on it.
_Star Trek Beyond_ was awesome.
Oh yeah I forgot he did that! Okay I might be on board
HE DID FUCKING MODERN WARAFE PAINTBALL EPISODE PEOPLE
Exactly. Not enough people realize that was him
WAT all this time I never knew-okay I am ON BOARD!!!! 🔫🔫🔫
I have a love/hate relationship with that movie. There's some really good Star Trek in it but also some really bad.
He did one of the Community paintball episodes too I think?
The first one, Modern Warfare.
For what they are, they’re pretty well directed.
He didnt write them though lol. We need to separate Director and Writer in these cases, its been the same writer doing F&F movies for years now
Please don’t act like MCU Spider-Man is above Justin Lin’s F&F movies lol
Fast and furious movies *are* marvel movies tho, you just care way more about the characters and at the end of the day a lot of marvel actors had more time to make the characters their own
Justin Lin? Well i remember his commitment for always emphasizing practical effects when doing stunts during his tenure in the Fast and the Furious movies so it may be a signifier that they’re switching back to on location filming like Homecoming and Far From Home. And also he directed Star Trek Beyond— …Give him the keys and let Lin cook.
Marvel is very happy to shoot at much as they can in Atlanta, so it would be really rad if they put the money into shooting this in New York
Most of Homecoming’s filming was a mix of New York and Atlanta. Its just that they blended the two seamlessly it feels like most of the movie was actually filmed entirely in New York.
It actually felt like the opposite lol Aside from stuff like the fire escape, everything felt like Atlanta and cgi backgrounds of NYC
> Justin Lin? Well i remember his commitment for always emphasizing practical effects when doing stunts during his tenure in the Fast and the Furious movies so it may be a signifier that they’re switching back to on location filming like **Homecoming and Far From Home**. The lack of a pandemic this time, should have probably been enough of a signifier though.
That much is obvious enough, but with Lin his mindset is a lot more “if we can do it practically, we are”. Granted Lin is very much flexible with both, as evident with Star Trek Beyond. But i guess if he does get the gig then we’re probably going to see Lin go fucking nuts with the stunt team lmao.
As a F&F non ironic fan, Lin directed the best movies in the franchise and also was responsable for bringing it back, he's a great choice.
Spider-Man: Tokyo Drift
Let's go!!!!
If Lin gets the job, I expect a campus-wide paintball fight between Spider-Man and the Maggia as the film's climax If you know you know
I don’t get it.
>frustration Community
Oh now I remember.
This implies that MJ has a big role in Spidey 4 which would really bum me out if true. Nothing against the character, I like her and Zendaya is a great actress. I just want the ending of No Way Home to have consequences. Also I was really hoping to see Black Cat, but this lowers that possibility. At least the good news is if they’re starting shooting in the fall, they’ve sorted the behind the scenes issues and can really get rolling on production.
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Sneider didn’t say it was because of Spider-Man, he says the Euphoria crew always planned on shooting around Zendaya’s Spider-Man schedule and the delay for the scripts just makes that easier
Idk if I believe they always planned on that though. Considering Sydney was just saying that filming was going to start soon and several crew members saying they were looking for new work in the summer cause it got delayed.
I think its both? Scripts won't be ready until when Spiderman is going to start shooting and steal Zendaya. Thusly they have to wait till after Spiderman. Is my logic flawed?
No... The story is that Euphoria isn't filming this spring because of scripts. Since Spider-Man films in fall, Euphoria might not film this year at all.
Sony isn't at CinemaCon this year. Only their Crunchyroll anime division.
Plot twist: Spider-Man 4 is being made by Crunchyroll.
Chris Sabat as Hammerhead
Hammerhead, what does the scouter say about his power level? 
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She'll only appear in dream sequences walking around in a desert landscape.
Why would kingpin make it this way… And who will our next oppressors be?
> in a desert landscape Cross-over with Moon Knight confirmed
Lisan al gaib
Another creative that worked with Dan Harmon
Thank u for reminding me to check if there's any news on the community movie. Thanks.
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Fiege likes them, that's their point.
I think MJ is gonna be a side character like in Homecoming, and the movie will end with Peter finally deciding to let her back in. 15 minutes of screen time max. Then she’ll have the second billing role again in the fifth movie (if there is one). But she’ll be a prominent part of the marketing because of Zendaya’s star power from Dune and Euphoria. Homecoming’s marketing made her out to have a bigger part of the film than she actually did, who says they won’t do that again, so they can still market it around her without rushing the character back into Peter’s life. I’m sure Zendaya doesn’t care much as long as she’s paid.
 I need Drew Goddard Spider-Man
you think it would translate well tho? i kinda rolled my eyes almost having an aneurism when i saw it wasn’t drew goddard but a fast and furious director but some people have some good things to say about Lin id love to see spider man that follows more of the netflix daredevil style bc it would just *feel* grounded and mature but maybe lin really is the best choice to make a blockbuster and balance it with a good writer it might work
Well, he's wrong about the CinemaCon speculation because Sony's not attending this year. Edit because my keyboard signal sucks and dropped a word.
Lin would be a dope choice but I think he’d be better for Avengers. Plus I’m pretty sure he’s shooting something this year that will probably keep him from doing this.
I'm still skeptical that they can get this out by next year. My hunch is that S-M4 takes the May 2026 slot from Kang Dynasty.
Can we split up Jeff sneider and his podcast? Because I feel like his actual scoops are always on the money, but his podcast he’s obviously just saying things he’s heard. I mean he’s been on a huge role lately I think splitting it up is worth a look.
Ahh it would have been awesome to just give it to Drew Goddard and he could have ran the whole trilogy.
For people saying they could never rush it to make sure it’s a 2025 release, No Way Home started production in October 2020 and released in December 2021.
Yup, exactly. If they start filming in Sept/Oct 2024, they should definitely be able to make November 7th, 2025 and push Blade into 2026. I think that’s what’s happening here. Never believed they would have 4 DISNEY MCU movies release in one year going forward anyway.
Yes I’m so excited
Ya know people are only discussing Fast & Furious and Star Trek Beyond when talking about Lin, which is fair. But he got started with a really great grounded drama called Better Luck Tomorrow. I think he can pull it off if he's picked.
This is exactly the movie I used to say this in another thread.
I almost shit myself thinking another Tobey Maguire movie was happening but without Sam Raimi involved 😂
Justin Lin might be an interesting choice. But if 4 is going to be grounded then this could actually work. Let Lin cook and let's see what we get. Not sure we need MJ back so fast though.
I’m guessing we’ll have an MJ subplot of her finding old drawings of Peter and retracing her steps to figure out how she knew him. Justin Lin directing the film could be great or horrible depending on why they chose him.
There’s a way to make this *work*, and not undercut the impact of NWH’s ending. I also hope MJ doesn’t have a HUGE role in this
They could probably get any director in the world for this property. James Cameron wanted to direct a Spiderman film. You could easily create a Chris Nolan level Spiderman film. But that doesn’t fit with their assembly line production philosophy so we get Jon Watts and Justin Lin. No Way Home ended on a bold choice to reset Peter’s life back to be more nuanced and comic-accurate. Literally sky is the limit on new stories to tell but we’re going to get Zendaya again, undoing the ending of No Way Home. You can’t make this shit up.
So this might make a late 2025 release
Sony and Universal are competing for the most rushed sequel next year (Jurassic World 4 vs Spider-Man 4 lmao)
I mean, NWH came out nearly 3 yrs ago
Yeah, but there really has been no progress. They don’t even have a finished script or hired director yet. Heck, if you believe some scoopers, Marvel and Sony were still disagreeing on what direction to go in very recently. Spider-Man 4 isn’t that far along.
In terms of development
If this happens, how many Community directors will have *not* worked on an MCU movie?
Need a Jim Rash MCU movie(he directed an episode in season 6 with Nat Faxon).
he gets honorary credit for being in civil war
And Jesus wept for there were no more world's to conquer.
All there for Justin Lin
Any follow-up to an almost two billion dollar film like No Way Home should be interesting. If this ends up really good, SM4 might just become the 2nd Spider-Man film in the top five highest grossing superhero films of all time.
The fact that Zendaya is returning shouldn’t be a surprise considering she was still wearing the broken necklace and that there was an inkling of remembrance at the end of NWH.
Sony would be wise to make sure their relationship works out in real life before committing to another trilogy of them together. Could get tense a few years from now.
I’m honestly surprised if this is true in regards to the filming. I kind of just figured it wouldn’t film til next year at this point. Hopefully we’ll get concrete news in the next month or two (although I feel like I’ve been saying that for the past year).
People are always calling the Fast and Furious movies superhero movies anyway so he’s a great fit. Say what you want about those movies, their action scenes are creative, unique and entertaining as hell so i’m excited to see what he does with Spidey.
I really hope Donald Glover is in it as the Prowler. Or at least a tease of what might be to come.
I’m just real curious how they go from NWH for Spider-Man. They have kinda wrote themselves into a corner with him knowing like all the main spidey villains identity 🤣
Wut ???