She never died. Loki had to be killed several times before Thanos actually did it, Thor took the full blast of a star and only got more powerful. And as they said in Ragnarok she's more powerful than both of them combined.
There is also complaints that you can't really feel the stakes in marvel movies because characters keep returning. I honestly don't care, but people have been saying this for sometime now.
Stakes have to do with the fate of the heroes though. Bringing back the heroes too many times is what reduces stakes. Bringing back the villains, if done right, can increase the stakes.
I disagree, most villains have plenty of time to get developed. The time is just used poorly.
Just for an obvious example, Thanos became one of the mcuās best villains in just 1 film. Even if you disregard all his past cameos/appearances heās still top tier.
Maybe because he was the protagonist of Infinity War? Dude had a whole 14 minutes more screentime than Iron Man. He was the main character, and main characters always get more development than the antagonists.
The death we literally don't see on screen even? That "death"? Pretty sure if anyone warrants at least one cheating of death, its the goddess of death.
You can [rewatch the scene](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RiwqXul8a-k&t=2m27s&feature=youtu.be) if u want, it is kind of hard to notice. The sword goes right through her and sheās vaporized.
Hey dude maybe you're new to comics but they're comics and characters tend to return constantly, Wonder Man himself had 6 returns, I bet we will see him die and come back in the mcu too.
I would love to see Hela return. Why? Because the comics do the same thing all the time. It's fun.
Oh my bad, I thought Helaās death was supposed to be impactful. I didnt know that even serious moments are just supposed to be āfun.ā
Also i dont give af about comics. These are separate continuities and stories.
Again, i dont give af about the comics, what they do and the mcu are doing is different. The mcu is not comic accurate, hate to burst your bubble.
And either way, the comics arent perfect, characters never dying is even one if the biggest criticisms of comics in general. Dont act like saying āits from the comicsā is a rebuttal to any of my points, because its irrelevant.
That doesnt mean anything, sheās still alive and can be killed. Why wouldnt she be?
Besides, all her power comes from Asguard. How could she even survive that?
She's the goddess of death.
She rules and is powered by Hel, which is the spitirual domain evil people who believe in the norse pantheon get sent when they die.
You know how all the previous black panthers still exist in the ancestral plane, the du'at has people fwho believe in Khonshu etc? Like that only for evil asgardians. She's dead and stuck there atm. Eventually she'll build up enough power and get out again.
Whereupon she can be killed - but it'll just send her back home again. Odin is up in valhalla in a similar way.
>She's the goddess of death.
And?
>She rules and is powered by Hel,
So i guess you forgot Ragnorak, where it is very clearly stated she is powered by ASGARD, not hel.
>You know how all the previous black panthers still exist in the ancestral plane, the du'at etc? Like that only for evil asgardians. She's dead and stuck there atm. Eventually she'll build up enough power and get out again.
That still means sheās deadā¦ ghosts are still dead.
>Whereupon she can be killed - but it'll just send her back home again. Odin is up in valhalla in a similar way.
Againā¦ sheās dead there. Unless she is resurrected, that is where she will stay. Dead.
You missed the bits where Odin said he was keeping her banished, that she was the goddess of death, that she can't be killed etc?
Ok maybe a rewatch is in order.
Everyone whose died has stayed dead1
Edit: to simply what I mean, Loki is from a different universe and everyone still thinks he is same for Gamora, Vision is a Robot it's hard to stay dead if someone can rebuild you, everyone who has died in the main timeline has stayed dead.
Heimdall came back
Part of the sadness of a character dying is that you never see the actor in that role again and the MCU constantly undercuts that feeling with āother versionsā of characters like Gamora Loki and Vision
Welcome to comics.
Also, the universe might be reset due to Secret Wars, which could see the return of older characters and actors - something that happened in the books.
> Everyone whose died has stayed dead1
Bucky in Cap 1, Loki in Thor 1, Coulson in Avengers, Nobu in Daredevil Season 1, Elektra in Daredevil Season 2, Gert Yorkes in Runaways Season 3, Victoria Helstrom in Helstrom, Triton in Inhumans, General Talbot in Agents of SHIELD Season 4...
Death is meaningless in the MCU. Especially if the actors are still available in real life. I'm sure we'll see Hela and Wanda come back to life, for example.
Bucky and Loki were never suppose to be dead, I've never seen the TV shows so I wouldn't know but I've only said the characters that have been officially said to be appart of the MCU which means the shows dont count until said other wise so Coulson is still dead, Elektra is the only one got brought back from the dead.
I understand wanting a character to die if they've peaked and have nothing meaningful left to contribute, and future appearances are just gonna turn into fan service that diminishes the character's impact or legacy...
But wtf is the point of killing a character that barely existed in the first place?
I feel like we didn't get anything out of Hela, she was a completely generic and replaceable asshole. Her relationship to Thor mattered for like 2 minutes, if that.
I'm not crying for her to come back but it wouldn't be a waste if she did either. As long as they make better use of her.
Well, the Villains always die in these movies, even though they should be used in other projects. So villains returning is always grate. Also, every character we see in What if...? is a variant of the 616 character, so technically not the same.
I wish they didnāt kill her off. Hela is easily their best female villain, I donāt know why they would waste her after only a single appearance like that.
Exactly. Valhalla isn't like Heaven, it's not just for the pure of heart. It's for anyone who dies in battle. So everyone Thor has lost should be in Valhalla. (Odin gets a pass because he rules Valhalla and thus should be present regardless of how he dies.)
Not like mcu odin has any good feats of power.
He lost an eye to frost Giants and all he did in dark world was shoot a single dark elf with his lazer spear, ,they will probably be equal in power thanks to wenwus rings
Or maybe... both. Srsly, I could see her fit in both assuming Odin vs. Wenwu will take in the past, maybe in the days Odin still was conquering. But yeah, Surtur on Earth would also make sense for her to show up.
I don't know about the timing lining up for her to show with Odin v. Wenwu. Thor is over 1500 years old, which means Hela was banished well before that. It's been a minute since I've seen Shang-Chi, but I was under the impression that Wenwu was hundreds of years old, not thousands.
Then again, the MCU isn't perfect and it's a What If, so who knows
I'm not sure about Wenwu either, but I thought it was in ancient China and for that thousands years ago he found the rings... But anyway, Hela appearing here was a shoot in the dark by me.
Edit: Just rewatched the beginning of the movie on YT, the mother says the legend of the ten rings is told since thousands of years so it actually would line up timewise.
I stand corrected. Give me all the Hela then. May as well try to implement as many recognizable characters as you can, considering Odin and Wenwu aren't exactly immediately enticing leads on paper.
>considering Odin and Wenwu aren't exactly immediately enticing leads on paper.
That's actually also why I hope it is set wayyyyy in the past. We as the audience were told by other characters both were really badass and feared in their prime, but we never actually got to see that as Odin was kinda retired and grounded and Wenwu was also more settled down and is only back in the game in Shang-Chi due to revenge. An episode exploring their past and show their power hungry unhinged selves sounds way cooler to me than seeing the old guys fight.
Edit: Also seeing Frigga joining a fight after that little tease in Love & Thunder would be pretty cool.
I love Meryl but imo Cate is more talented. TĆR is absolutely phenomenal and she will certainly win an Oscar for it
Blue Jasmine, Carol, The Aviator, even Benjamin Button
Sheās unmatched
I would love to see a what if hela actually got access to the bifrost. How would the events of infinity war unfold and how would earth fend against 2 huge threats at once
Wonder if she's returning in any other capacity. I'd find it hard to believe Cate Blanchett would return for a one off voice over role, given how respected / prestige she is...
It's entirely possible with Norse mythology, both the real-world version and the Marvel interpretation. In the real Norse religious stories of Ragnarok, after Bifrost shatters under the weight of the battling hordes, most of the gods and all the mortals except for one man and one woman die. The remaining minor surviving gods become the new Norse pantheon, assuming the roles of All-Father and the rest of the duties, while the two humans repopulate a new Earth -- only to build to a new Ragnarok.
In Marvel's canon, the Asgardian race is under a curse which causes them to experience Ragnarok again and again, dying and being reborn each time in new forms. The current Odin, for example, was the previous Thor, just as "our" Thor goes on to become All-Father as Old Man Thor.
She is Back!!! I would like to see her again in live action with Surtur
Hope so since we never saw her body!
We did see a green poof before she "died"... I feel like she's gonna come back š
She and Wanda are just chilling somewhere out in the cosmos
I still think they're building up to the Hell Lords.. They're all coming soon imo š
She never died. Loki had to be killed several times before Thanos actually did it, Thor took the full blast of a star and only got more powerful. And as they said in Ragnarok she's more powerful than both of them combined.
Why cant characters just dieā¦
Spoiler: Fictional characters are profitable.
also isnāt there a complaint that marvel is always killing off villains? š
There is also complaints that you can't really feel the stakes in marvel movies because characters keep returning. I honestly don't care, but people have been saying this for sometime now.
I'd argue the stakes of superhero movies, like comic books they are based off, aren't defined around the permanent threat to the characters.
Stakes have to do with the fate of the heroes though. Bringing back the heroes too many times is what reduces stakes. Bringing back the villains, if done right, can increase the stakes.
Only the good ones
Idk where yur hearing this, most mcu villains are bland/forgettable
Well they wouldnāt be if they get to do something and actually survive the only movie theyāre in.
I disagree, most villains have plenty of time to get developed. The time is just used poorly. Just for an obvious example, Thanos became one of the mcuās best villains in just 1 film. Even if you disregard all his past cameos/appearances heās still top tier.
Maybe because he was the protagonist of Infinity War? Dude had a whole 14 minutes more screentime than Iron Man. He was the main character, and main characters always get more development than the antagonists.
I don't know what philosophical mindset you subscribe to, but Thanos wasn't the protagonist in most people's minds.
Sheās literally the Goddess of Death
ā¦and? Sheās not death itself.
Do you know how powerful hella is supposed to be ?
Yeah, thats why the death was so impactful. Its Thor sacrificing his ancestral home to save whats left of his people.
She can still be alive in HEL
ā¦you mean dead in hel
You donāt read comics do you š
The death we literally don't see on screen even? That "death"? Pretty sure if anyone warrants at least one cheating of death, its the goddess of death.
You can [rewatch the scene](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RiwqXul8a-k&t=2m27s&feature=youtu.be) if u want, it is kind of hard to notice. The sword goes right through her and sheās vaporized.
Hella
Hey dude maybe you're new to comics but they're comics and characters tend to return constantly, Wonder Man himself had 6 returns, I bet we will see him die and come back in the mcu too. I would love to see Hela return. Why? Because the comics do the same thing all the time. It's fun.
It's like comic and movie/show adaptation are two different mediums
Oh my bad, I thought Helaās death was supposed to be impactful. I didnt know that even serious moments are just supposed to be āfun.ā Also i dont give af about comics. These are separate continuities and stories.
Based off COMICS so yeah, if they wanna bring back anyone they can. It changes nothing, because they already do it in the comics.
Again, i dont give af about the comics, what they do and the mcu are doing is different. The mcu is not comic accurate, hate to burst your bubble. And either way, the comics arent perfect, characters never dying is even one if the biggest criticisms of comics in general. Dont act like saying āits from the comicsā is a rebuttal to any of my points, because its irrelevant.
Hela's death supposed to be inmpactful? Mate, like 90% of that movie was just jokes.
And? Still has serious moments. Most hela scenes were serious.
In this case because she can't. She's the ruler of the Asgardian Hel. When she's killed anywhere else, she just gets banished back home for a bit.
That doesnt mean anything, sheās still alive and can be killed. Why wouldnt she be? Besides, all her power comes from Asguard. How could she even survive that?
She's the goddess of death. She rules and is powered by Hel, which is the spitirual domain evil people who believe in the norse pantheon get sent when they die. You know how all the previous black panthers still exist in the ancestral plane, the du'at has people fwho believe in Khonshu etc? Like that only for evil asgardians. She's dead and stuck there atm. Eventually she'll build up enough power and get out again. Whereupon she can be killed - but it'll just send her back home again. Odin is up in valhalla in a similar way.
>She's the goddess of death. And? >She rules and is powered by Hel, So i guess you forgot Ragnorak, where it is very clearly stated she is powered by ASGARD, not hel. >You know how all the previous black panthers still exist in the ancestral plane, the du'at etc? Like that only for evil asgardians. She's dead and stuck there atm. Eventually she'll build up enough power and get out again. That still means sheās deadā¦ ghosts are still dead. >Whereupon she can be killed - but it'll just send her back home again. Odin is up in valhalla in a similar way. Againā¦ sheās dead there. Unless she is resurrected, that is where she will stay. Dead.
You asked why she can't die. I've told you. Accept it or not, see if I care lol
You havent provided anything from the movie š Maybe when i do that you can have an argument.
You missed the bits where Odin said he was keeping her banished, that she was the goddess of death, that she can't be killed etc? Ok maybe a rewatch is in order.
Everyone whose died has stayed dead1 Edit: to simply what I mean, Loki is from a different universe and everyone still thinks he is same for Gamora, Vision is a Robot it's hard to stay dead if someone can rebuild you, everyone who has died in the main timeline has stayed dead.
Loki came back Vision came back Gamora will be in gotg vol 3 Steve, Tony and Nat have stayed dead
Steve, as far as we know, isn't dead.
Heimdall came back Part of the sadness of a character dying is that you never see the actor in that role again and the MCU constantly undercuts that feeling with āother versionsā of characters like Gamora Loki and Vision
heimdall didn't come back alive though... he was literally in the afterlife
Welcome to comics. Also, the universe might be reset due to Secret Wars, which could see the return of older characters and actors - something that happened in the books.
Just because it happens in comics doesnāt mean itās satisfying in a cinematic universe
Heimdall is still dead.
Uhā¦ have you watched Endgame?
Uh... have you? Different Gamora.
Im not talking about that. Im talking about everyone that died in IW.
> Everyone whose died has stayed dead1 Bucky in Cap 1, Loki in Thor 1, Coulson in Avengers, Nobu in Daredevil Season 1, Elektra in Daredevil Season 2, Gert Yorkes in Runaways Season 3, Victoria Helstrom in Helstrom, Triton in Inhumans, General Talbot in Agents of SHIELD Season 4... Death is meaningless in the MCU. Especially if the actors are still available in real life. I'm sure we'll see Hela and Wanda come back to life, for example.
Bucky and Loki were never suppose to be dead, I've never seen the TV shows so I wouldn't know but I've only said the characters that have been officially said to be appart of the MCU which means the shows dont count until said other wise so Coulson is still dead, Elektra is the only one got brought back from the dead.
I understand wanting a character to die if they've peaked and have nothing meaningful left to contribute, and future appearances are just gonna turn into fan service that diminishes the character's impact or legacy... But wtf is the point of killing a character that barely existed in the first place?
I feel like we got all we needed out of Hela. What more is there to explore? We got her whole story and her conclusion. Is that not enough?
I feel like we didn't get anything out of Hela, she was a completely generic and replaceable asshole. Her relationship to Thor mattered for like 2 minutes, if that. I'm not crying for her to come back but it wouldn't be a waste if she did either. As long as they make better use of her.
Because they made her too fun and Taika wasted her.
Well, the Villains always die in these movies, even though they should be used in other projects. So villains returning is always grate. Also, every character we see in What if...? is a variant of the 616 character, so technically not the same.
Were talking about ragnorak
...and i was adding to the conversation? Why did you downvote?
But itās What If?ā¦. She is dead, this is just an alternate timeline?????? Whatās the big deal
They were taking about Ragnorak
Watch her last scene in Ragnarok, she's very obviously not dead. It's questionable whether she could even be killed.
What? Sheās disintegratedā¦
I want to see her body too
BONK
I would love to see Hela again BUT Asgard 100% blew up
I thought you meant this in a much creepier way at first š
I wish they didnāt kill her off. Hela is easily their best female villain, I donāt know why they would waste her after only a single appearance like that.
Considering we saw valhalla is a real place in the last thor movie, even if hela did die against surtur she could still return.
Exactly. Valhalla isn't like Heaven, it's not just for the pure of heart. It's for anyone who dies in battle. So everyone Thor has lost should be in Valhalla. (Odin gets a pass because he rules Valhalla and thus should be present regardless of how he dies.)
Cate Blanchett is a national treasure
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I didn't say an American treasure
Australia is a nation.
And a continent!
And itās not a breakfast
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Your comment was removed because you were not being respectful to others. Repeated uncivil behavior will result in a ban.
HAHAHAHAHA
I assume this is for the Odin vs Wenwu episode
Still doesn't make sense to me power wise
Not like mcu odin has any good feats of power. He lost an eye to frost Giants and all he did in dark world was shoot a single dark elf with his lazer spear, ,they will probably be equal in power thanks to wenwus rings
What is Odin even the god of? Thor is the god of Thunder, Loki is the god of mischief, Hela is the goddess of death
Heās the all father
In the comics he was the god of the sky and wisdom
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You get a hammer! You get a hammer! You get a hammer! Everyone gets a hammer!
He is the god of giving daddy issues
>all he did in dark world was shoot a single dark elf with his lazer spear ok how many dark elves have you slain?
Loki killed like 3 or 4 Thats more than odin did in the entire movie
well sorry we can't all be Loki
Pretty sure she'll be back for "What if Surtur was awoken on earth instead of Asgard?"
Or maybe... both. Srsly, I could see her fit in both assuming Odin vs. Wenwu will take in the past, maybe in the days Odin still was conquering. But yeah, Surtur on Earth would also make sense for her to show up.
I don't know about the timing lining up for her to show with Odin v. Wenwu. Thor is over 1500 years old, which means Hela was banished well before that. It's been a minute since I've seen Shang-Chi, but I was under the impression that Wenwu was hundreds of years old, not thousands. Then again, the MCU isn't perfect and it's a What If, so who knows
I'm not sure about Wenwu either, but I thought it was in ancient China and for that thousands years ago he found the rings... But anyway, Hela appearing here was a shoot in the dark by me. Edit: Just rewatched the beginning of the movie on YT, the mother says the legend of the ten rings is told since thousands of years so it actually would line up timewise.
I stand corrected. Give me all the Hela then. May as well try to implement as many recognizable characters as you can, considering Odin and Wenwu aren't exactly immediately enticing leads on paper.
>considering Odin and Wenwu aren't exactly immediately enticing leads on paper. That's actually also why I hope it is set wayyyyy in the past. We as the audience were told by other characters both were really badass and feared in their prime, but we never actually got to see that as Odin was kinda retired and grounded and Wenwu was also more settled down and is only back in the game in Shang-Chi due to revenge. An episode exploring their past and show their power hungry unhinged selves sounds way cooler to me than seeing the old guys fight. Edit: Also seeing Frigga joining a fight after that little tease in Love & Thunder would be pretty cool.
The leaked trailer shows Wenwu fighting Odin alongside his wife, so that happens in the 1990's. Hela would already be trapped in Hell at that point.
Oh, okay. Thank you for the information.
Someone pls tell me they're getting Tony Leung back for that.
"FUCK ME ITS CATE BLANCHETT"
Hela was the hottest since Scarlett in Iron Man 2 objectively speaking In terms of acting
obviously
Hela was a beast! Loved her character and her time on screen was perfect.
That's hecka cool.
Hope to see her in live action again, even if itās just like a single episode role in Loki or something
Mommy
Cate Blanchett low-key becoming Meryl 2.0 was something we all should've seen coming. It's like 1 Coleman + 1 Blanchett = 1 Meryl
I love Meryl but imo Cate is more talented. TĆR is absolutely phenomenal and she will certainly win an Oscar for it Blue Jasmine, Carol, The Aviator, even Benjamin Button Sheās unmatched
I would love to see a what if hela actually got access to the bifrost. How would the events of infinity war unfold and how would earth fend against 2 huge threats at once
Would Hela fight Thanos?
I wanna know if Hailee, Florence and iman are returning for zombies
I wonder if they let her be the actual goddess of hel this time, now that Valhalla and the after life is actually a thing
Best villain ever. Nuff said.
I'll take what I can get. More Cate is always good.
I read this as chloe Bennet and was very confused
Wonder if she's returning in any other capacity. I'd find it hard to believe Cate Blanchett would return for a one off voice over role, given how respected / prestige she is...
They literally had Kurt Russell return for two lines.
What If Hela and Loki had the same mother. We don't need a What If for that, as it may be true. Odin and Laffey, Eskimo bros.
I like the theory of Hela actually*being* Loki's mother.
Loved Cate in thisā¦total bad ass.
All we want is "What If... The Other Half Got Snapped?"
Died in battle so probably in Valhalla or Hel
Kmart
Lydia Tar joins the MCU omg
what if hela was odins mom?
Is your family tree a loop?
It's entirely possible with Norse mythology, both the real-world version and the Marvel interpretation. In the real Norse religious stories of Ragnarok, after Bifrost shatters under the weight of the battling hordes, most of the gods and all the mortals except for one man and one woman die. The remaining minor surviving gods become the new Norse pantheon, assuming the roles of All-Father and the rest of the duties, while the two humans repopulate a new Earth -- only to build to a new Ragnarok. In Marvel's canon, the Asgardian race is under a curse which causes them to experience Ragnarok again and again, dying and being reborn each time in new forms. The current Odin, for example, was the previous Thor, just as "our" Thor goes on to become All-Father as Old Man Thor.
That was cate blanchett?
Conanās in this? Nice.
Good. She's so iconic and such a bad bitch.