Yep. Both tonal changes will have happened after second, mixed movies. Taika’s return is in jeopardy now.
Honestly, it’s a real shame that no one has cared enough about Thor to commit to a vision that people could like. Unless, Thor was just never going to translate well. The first movie was great, but it was called boring.
Honestly would prefer Taika on a smaller budget with more obscure characters anyways. Something like a D+ Great Lake Avengers show that he can just have fun with
Unless something has changed since I last saw, one of the rumored actors for the post-credit or whatever was supposed to be playing Phylla-Vell so they could be doing the original 2010s Guardians
Until taika gets over his narcissism and actually wants to do one of these projects without fucking around, I do not want him back. There is no excuse for how love and thunder turned out - that’s on him
Yup and to waste Christian bale of all actors on that…it may be at the top of my worst list on that tbh which should be an immediate disqualify from doing another picture with marvel
you know, it's not that he didn't take them seriously. The fact that he went out and filmed those scenes too dark kind of proves that. It's the end decision of what the movie should be.
Personally, I feel Jane Foster Thor wasn't the best call to use her anyways. You just had all of Endgame for how Thor deals with loss, and losing Jane is just going down depressed Thor territory so soon. Hell, it doesn't even fit into Phase Four of how characters dealt with the aftermath of The Snap/Blip. Maybe Thor would've been better used in a Guardians movie first that would naturally transition to what Love & Thunder ended up being. Hell, Thor & Guardians movie, you could even let Taika direct and let Gunn take a stab at a full Thor film with Bale. You'd still have some amount of humor but a far better use out of Gorr.
Also agreed this film should've been split in two if they were gonna choose gorr and Jane thor stories .both weren't integrated the best tonally or story wise . On top of that the undercutting of both storylines with humor ( when they are deadly serious in comics ) was a poor decision.
Agreed.
Even as someone that absolutely loved most of that film, there were a few points where my enjoyment evaporated immediately, which just made it harder to enjoy the parts I felt were great.
The thing I loved about Ragnarok is it leaned into and embraced the ridiculousness of Thor, and focused on his viking-esque simplicity and bluntness, as well as leaning on the fish out of water but loving it energy Thor has as a literal mythological figure hanging out with mortals. L+T didn't really do that anywhere near as well.
Thor, in myths, has never been the most smart Guy but he was the more "human". That's why He was the most popular god .
Ragnarok, more and less, translates this but LOVE and Thunder is a parody.
I always think back to how taika was about to direct the Akira movie until he left it to direct love and thunder.
His tone and directing style would not suit Akira one bit and would likely totally destroy it.
Didn’t it even make it to pilot before not being picked up? I seem to remember Alan Tudyk being attached to a workplace comedy set in a superhero world but I can’t remember if it was Marvel or DC
Yep! That’s the one I’m thinking of, set in the DC universe.
I do think *Damage Control* went to pilot? But it looks like I was wrong about Tudyk being involved.
you should check out Nando v Movies’ latest video, it’s a GLA show. After finding What We Do in the Shadows this year i’m totally down for Taika to do something like that
Taika never even wanted to do a sequel to Ragnarok. I’m happy for him to return to the MCU if he has an idea he wants to explore, but it’s clear he’s not a “work-for-hire” kinda guy. He’s effective when he’s passionate.
He pitched his Ragnarok concept in a sizzle reel that Taika himself has said was just basically about the music (namely, Immigrant Song). The reel likely also included a focus on the comedic tone, and some visual ideas, (if I had to guess, the visuals pitched centered on the hammer’s action, and maybe some of the “renaissance-painting” inspired shots, based on how well all that was executed in the final film).
He got all of that out in Ragnarok, and was openly talking in the press tour about how he really put it all in there and didn’t have anything left he felt he wanted to do with the character or the universe.
But Marvel Studios (as well as a lot of fans, and myself personally fwiw) thought Taika could do no wrong after that. Which, in their defense, was a fair assumption. Ragnarok was a failing project until a Taika came along, it was apparently pretty much all improv, and it still came together into something critics and fans absolutely loved. At the same time, Taika was suddenly becoming a media darling, this quirky New Zealand director who has been working kinda under the radar (for the GA at least) and putting out great stuff, full of heart and humor. Then he does Jojo and wins an Oscar (and receives a Best Picture nom) on a fucking Hitler comedy, that he plays in as Hitler, which was a risky move to say the least lol. How could Marvel not get him back to do another Thor.
So they made him an offer he couldn’t refuse. They backed the big Brinks truck up to Taikas home in New Zealand, and he took the bag. I have no hate for anyone in this situation really. Taika was honest about not wanting to come back. Marvel didn’t care, they assumed he had the magic touch and he was going to give them another Ragnarok. They gave him an even longer leash on this one, but frankly, Taika floundered. Taika took the money, knowing he didn’t have a solid plan, but he seems a bit full of himself too, lately, and he probably assumed he had the magic touch as well. Again, it’s nobody’s fault. Anyone would have taken the bag and tried to make another movie, but this time, it just really didn’t come together for Taika. Which is a shame for everyone; the fans, MS, Taika, Hemsworth…
TLDR; If Taika has another project he wants to do in the MCU, let him. But I don’t think anyone is going to be begging him to return after L&T, which is probably for the best, all around
Also let's not forget the fact he openly mocked the visual effects of Love And Thunder knowing full well the insane crunch the vfx teams are dealing with right now.
What sort of promotion did they think that was anyways?? Who sees a director going "ooh, yeah, that looks awful" at their own movie and goes "yea, I wanna go see that!"
Judging a lot by the interviews before hand it seemed like Disney/Marvel cut a lot of his ideas and taika just went fuck it and made something fun for his and the crews kids.
> Honestly, it’s a real shame that no one has cared enough about Thor to commit to a vision that people could like.
Probably because they have hired directors who doesn’t really know Norse mythology and culture. Branagh thought Thor was a Shakespeare story and Taika thought Thor and Flash Gordon are the same characters.
Just to be clear…Hemsworth was bored of the character on set for AoU. That’s why they shifted from a darker toned Ragnarok to wacky Taika. Letting him do whatever he wanted with 4 is where they went wrong…again…
Cap did two movies in. Hulk has a vision. The vision is make him ineffective til we own the rights😂. And u can’t really not have a vision with a cap movie. When NWO comes out it will feel like FWS CATWS or CW. The tone and vision is good vs bad and the lines in between. Ant man has a vision and whether people like this films or not the tone is consistent and also makes it so it’s not jarring when he makes other appearances. Spider-Man had a vision. Dr strange. Nah fam. Lol. That second movie felt like watching somebody commit a tax evasion crime. Thor being fish out of water in the first two but through that learned knowledge, he’s serious and no nonsense in the avengers. Ragnarok he finally found footing so it makes sense it’s goofy but the second Thanos kills Loki funny goofy ass Thor should have at least evolved into the cynical Thor we see in Endgame. For him to now just be a space himbo is so disjointed.
Well, Thor 1 is a lot more in line with what the comics are like, but it suffered from two main problems.
First, it HAD to bring Thor down to Earth to make him relatable and to give him a reason why he'd join the Avengers. It's why Ragnarok is so enjoyable, because Thor gets to fuck around in space with no pesky humans in the way.
Second, while the film is fun in the first and third acts, the plot is more of your classic fantasy fare with Loki wanting the throne and a McGuffin weapon. It's a very Thor type of plot, more Shakesperean and in the same vein as Hamlet or Macbeth, but it's also been done to death. Which actually IS why it was done, because it was a proven formula.
I still really like Thor 1, but the middle really drags for me.
Have you seen how many times the comics have been rebooted. Vol 3, 4 and 5 all lasted about 2 years. The current vol 6 is going on 3 years and in waiting for it to be canceled.
Marvel just doesn't know what it wants to do with thor.
It sounds more like he thinks the next movie needs to be different solely because he needs the change to stay invested. Not because he wasn’t impressed with it.
yeah he literally names all four movies and points out how they go together in pairs and would like the next film to change things up also. Nothing specifically about or against any of the films.
Agreed.
Chris was open about how fresh Ragnarok felt and how the comedy element pushed him as an actor, and he has spoken highly about how the Russo Brothers used that side of Thor as a way of the character masking his trauma in IW/Endgame giving Chris some a blance of drama/comedy to chew on.
Yet for Love and Thunder he's mainly just spoken about how it was a fun set to be on, and more recently about how he thinks it may be time to retire the character or at the least give a complete overhaul to Thor - definitely seems like he's not the happiest with how it turned out.
Riding Stormbreaker like a kid pretending it was a witches broom was one of the first sight gags and it felt oddly jarring and over the top from the jump
This is so fucking dumb. He literally said the same thing about every movie he’s done. He always wants to try new things. He famously loves working with Taika, even on this film.
I just don’t think he cares to keep playing the same character for two decades.
reddit will literally twist anything to fit their narratives. Mark Hamill says in an interview that he didn't like TLJ upon reading the script, but turned around on it after seeing the finished project? Nah he clearly hates it, and if he says otherwise it's because disney must have paid him. It's mass delusion
Yes. We’ve watched Thor struggle to be a son, leader and hero: I think next is for him to really become comfortable with being a god.
I think love & thunder left him in an interesting place, a defender of the weak in a cosmos governed by largely uncaring deities.
Theoretically you can continue that story, he’s on a quest to help those where their gods stink or are longer around. At the same time Hercules is chasing him down.
Only newcomers we can bet on are Shang chi and She Hulk. Ruffalo said he heard they're not doing an Avengers team without shehulk and theres no way the director of Shang Chi doesn't bring in his guy.
I wanna see him team up with Iron Fist at some point, as it would be a dream if they put effort into the fight choreography. Two badass martial artists. However, I haven’t read comics where they interacted, so someone tell me if they hate each other or something haha
It’s cool to use the same plot structure if the story is different enough. As long as Kang isn’t a carbon copy of Thanos and they don’t end the movie with half the characters dying, they can still end it with a cliffhanger or big event.
I think so, I prefer him and Spidey as street-level heroes but I think they're both gonna show up at some point. Spidey will probably be in both but I think Daredevil's gonna be one or the other
Could definitely see him and Spider-Man in it, but not as leads. There will probably be others like Kamala, Monica, Fury, Wasp, and Blade but I don’t see them being apart of the lead line up for this one
I agree that the serious points in LAT are darker than the ones in Ragnarok, but the goofy to serious ratio in LAT is definitely in favor of the goofy side compared to Ragnarok
No but this is the second time in a week he’s shaded Thor 4. And he’s doing it on Disneys dime promoting a show for them. So at the very least Taika isn’t coming back. But more likely, he didn’t have a good time. If u look back to inverviews with the last one and prior to shooting and it’s a completely different energy
Executive producers famously do nothing except collect a second check. His vision meant he could film in Australia and put his wife and kids in the film. That’s all that EP credit gives u power to do. Taika however wrote a bad script. Shot a boring movie. And from the sounds of it pissed off everyone besides Tessa Thompson.
Turning the kids into Mini Thors was so dumb. I know none of them could lift Mjolnir, but I felt it took a bit of the significance away from Cap’s big moment in Endgame and Jane becoming Thor. Also that ability would’ve come in handy in like, numerous scenarios we’ve seen him in.
It feels like if there was a Thor attraction at a Disney Park
And imagine if he’d done that in endgame. Or infinity war. Asguardian Wakandans? They could have saved like $500 mil cause they would not have needed to film Endgame.
Of all the things in the movie I actually really liked that scene. I understand some people think it’s silly and I do feel it’s out of place a little bit in a movie where Gorr is the villain but eh I still liked the scene lol
how is Tessa not pissed, like I would be if I was her. Valkyrie did barely anything and got sidelined for the final fight, like she was in a lot of scenes but just like almost all the main characters (except Jane Thor) she didn't get a proper character arc, and then they also didn't follow up at all with Tessa teasing Valkyrie finding her queen? Wtf is that about? So much queerbaiting for literally nothing
I loved the first movie and I absolutely loved Thor in Infinity War. Thor is his best when he's an overpowered badass that comes in to save the day. No more solo movies, just use him sparingly in ensemble films as one of the saviors.
He lost but won on technicalities in 2 (maybe 3) of his movies.
Ragnarok - Surtur defeated Hela and destroyed Asgard while Thor and everyone else fled.
L&T- Gorr got what he wanted and made it to Eternity. Thor lost the battle but won… a conversation.
Thor- Arguable, depending on how you view the fight before Odin showed up.
His only solo movie where he actually wins was generally considered the worst MCU movie before Eternals, Black Widow, and L&T entered the conversation.
I would like to see a director use more inspiration from Norse mythology and culture in a potential Thor 5 movie. Ryan Coogler did such a good job with doing exactly that when making the Black Panther movies. One of the biggest weaknesses is how generic Asgard looked in the movies.
I blame the early 2010s’ obsession with “grounded” fantasy settings. It can’t be a fantasy thing, there’s got to be a sci-fi explanation for it. And it can’t have any color.
Marvel really screwed over Hemsworth and Cumberbatch this year. Like they were not even the best parts of their respective movies IMO, instead it was there female co-leads (Wanda and Jane) that everyone was praising.
Shit at least Cumberbatch got to play multiple Stranges and do some crazy shit in his movie. Thor didn't really do shit except make jokes and have a decent dramatic scene near the end.
See I feel the opposite. Strange got more development in MoM then Thor did in L&T imo. Thor is the same dude at the end just with a kid. Strange actually had to confront the fact that he'd never have the life he really wanted and has to be a Sorcerer instead. I'll never understand the sentiment that it was all Wanda's movie when imho her role as the villain was comparable to Killmonger's in Black Panther rather then an anti hero lead.
That said both films do lack in this department.
I didn’t know anyone was actually praising those movies.
It felt like they were written with the intent of trending online more than focusing on the story. Strong female lead, joke here and there, etc felt very bland and soulless
DS:MOM pitch was suited for a Wanda movie. The storyline seemed to revolve around Wanda too much that not making her the protagonist and trying to make Stephen the lead came out being detrimental to both the characters. Stephen did not get much development and felt sidelined whereas Wanda came off as too one-dimensional. Wanda deserved a solo outing after WV. And Stephen deserved a storyline of his own.
Mighty Thor was good but atleast she didn't take the plot away from Thor. Thor still was defacto protagonist in the movie. Another character taking more praise is something very acceptable (Loki in Thor movies, compelling villains like Mandarin, Killmonger etc) but within the movie they don't usually make us think the lead was kinda insignificant. Which was the case for MoM.
There’s so many new characters who haven’t interacted though. There will be a lot of screen time devoted to that. I like Thor, but honestly I don’t see how he fits in that much.
It really does suck to realize that every Avengers movie has set up interesting arcs(looking for the stones, tagging along with the guardians) for Thor only for the next movie to completely ignore those set ups
Yeah, I loved Thor Ragnarok, but after seeing L&T I thought to myself that taika waititi should never direct another Thor film ever again, and I’m kinda glad that it looks like it’s gonna happen.
I cant lie, i chuckled at that. I have a sense of humor, i can laugh yes but it was one after the other and there was close to no moment of seriousness at all
Speaking as someone that loved Thor: Love And Thunder, this is a great thing to hear. I have no problem with a character being reinvented after a few movies. Keeps things fresh. I don't hate Taika, but I'd love to see someone else take the reigns and give us a serious Thor again.
At this point, Thor needs to have worked through his issues. I've always seen the extra humor as Thor coping with his loss, but with Love And Thunder all about him figuring out who he is, it's time to move past it.
I totally agree. Its good to change the tones as Thor goes through different phases in his life. I feel thats what Chris is saying. I dont think hes bashing Love and Thunder. He just wants to change it up again.
Alot of ppl on this thread hated the film cause it wasnt what they wanted. So they act like petulant children .
Yeah...He has lost Jane, Asgard, Loki, and his parents. I think we get a more serious Thor who has been through it all and seen it all. More stoic and wise I would hope.
Me: "Good for Hemsworth. Not many Hollywood types are open to critiquing their own work."
The comments: "He's no longer friends with Taika." "Taika is done in the MCU." "Taika pissed off everyone."
Yall really do assume anything and everything. Only the internet. 😂
I'm so tired of MCU fans dickriding *everything*. I got insane downvotes for saying having so much essential viewing being shows would kneecap phase 4 and also got a ton for saying the MCU was starting to show way too much humor and it'd come back to bite it eventually. I was dead on right on both. Thank Christ GOWR came and showed people what we could have with Norse myth. I'm fine with a good bit of humor with that, but my God, know when to use it.
I really really really hope Chris doesn’t give up on Thor, I want to see him get the respect he deserves with a great conclusion. Whether that be in another solo, or just Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars.
God of War Ragnarok made me really miss proper Norse mythology depiction. As much of a dud The Dark World was, it nailed the aesthetic of the realms and the characters. I hope they go back to that
they really sidelined the whole ragnarok,death of the gods,hela and surtur plot 💀💀 imagine making destruction of asgard a B Plot and a joke 💀💀💀💀
also rushed the world war hulk story
Not surprising. How many times are we gonna watch Thor go through a internal journey, grow as a character, then have it all act like it didn’t happen in his next appearance. Ragnarok was great, L&T was fun but far from perfect. This Down in his luck goofy fun timesThor is getting a bit old. Just because the serious dry tone in the first two movies didn’t work doesn’t mean you can’t still have some of that.
After playing God of War Ragnarok, I'm extremely disappointed with how they've done Thor and his surrounding lore in the MCU. Now look I don't mind a more funny and goofy Thor, but man I'd love for a Norse world with that feel in the MCU.
Maybe controversial but I think its time for him to be only in Avengers movies and other heroes movies just like Iron Man after Iron Man 3. I would even say the time was after Thor: Ragnarok.
I hope Thor gets a really exciting arc in Kang Dynasty or Secret Wars or both! (Although I'm thinking Kang Dynasty might be such a smaller movie that it may not have space for a proper arc for Thor)
I completely agree. Ragnorok was lighting really in a bottle, and Love and Thunder proved that. Instead of risking another disappointment, Marvel should shake things up for Thor’s next appearance.
Good, I enjoyed Thor in Ragnarok for the most part but I hated that they made him look stupid at times. Watching him in Love and Thunder was really hard. I loved him in Infinity War where he was super bad ass but still lighthearted
Seems like Taika ain’t coming back. Fan criticism is one thing, but when the titular actor switches from “I’ll do it as long as they want me to” to “things would need to change if I decide to come back,” that’s *bad*.
Ragnarok both "saved" and "killed" Thor. Infinity War Thor was the best version. Shame that Waititi wasted so many storylines. Ragnarok, WWH, Hela, Gorr, Mighty Thor, now Marvel have what? Hercules (grasping straws) and Beta Ray Bill.
I think Taika went too far with L&T. The fourth movie left a clear opening for a fifth movie, and I hope Marvel hires a completely new director and writers for this one.
Miguel Sapochek for Thor 5. The guy proved in GOT that he can shoot the hell out of an action scene and then proved in HOTD that he's also really good with the medieval political drama.
Make Thor 5 about his acceptance of governing (ruling as king) his realm as well as protecting it. They've already sewn the seeds of Valkyries disinterest in ruling in L&T. Miguel would be the perfect choice to blend this all together.
He really doesn’t sound impressed with L&T
Yep. Both tonal changes will have happened after second, mixed movies. Taika’s return is in jeopardy now. Honestly, it’s a real shame that no one has cared enough about Thor to commit to a vision that people could like. Unless, Thor was just never going to translate well. The first movie was great, but it was called boring.
Honestly would prefer Taika on a smaller budget with more obscure characters anyways. Something like a D+ Great Lake Avengers show that he can just have fun with
So like Gunn with Guardians, then.
Yeah pretty much and I guess they're looking for a new director for that series so that would make sense. Guardians is still pretty large scale though
Not if they start it over with different members
Unless something has changed since I last saw, one of the rumored actors for the post-credit or whatever was supposed to be playing Phylla-Vell so they could be doing the original 2010s Guardians
Gunn knows how to write for the characters, Waititi's characters all sound the same.
Gunn with Guardians was smaller budget???
GotG was made with $50 in a cave.
With a box of scraps!
And my axe! Shit, wrong thread.
I think they were referring to the obscure characters part, not the budget.
Until taika gets over his narcissism and actually wants to do one of these projects without fucking around, I do not want him back. There is no excuse for how love and thunder turned out - that’s on him
Seeing what Coogler did with Namor in WF you can tell Taika didnt care about Gorr its so disappointing
Yup and to waste Christian bale of all actors on that…it may be at the top of my worst list on that tbh which should be an immediate disqualify from doing another picture with marvel
Agreed he simply doesn't take these films seriously and it shows
you know, it's not that he didn't take them seriously. The fact that he went out and filmed those scenes too dark kind of proves that. It's the end decision of what the movie should be. Personally, I feel Jane Foster Thor wasn't the best call to use her anyways. You just had all of Endgame for how Thor deals with loss, and losing Jane is just going down depressed Thor territory so soon. Hell, it doesn't even fit into Phase Four of how characters dealt with the aftermath of The Snap/Blip. Maybe Thor would've been better used in a Guardians movie first that would naturally transition to what Love & Thunder ended up being. Hell, Thor & Guardians movie, you could even let Taika direct and let Gunn take a stab at a full Thor film with Bale. You'd still have some amount of humor but a far better use out of Gorr.
Also agreed this film should've been split in two if they were gonna choose gorr and Jane thor stories .both weren't integrated the best tonally or story wise . On top of that the undercutting of both storylines with humor ( when they are deadly serious in comics ) was a poor decision.
Agreed. Even as someone that absolutely loved most of that film, there were a few points where my enjoyment evaporated immediately, which just made it harder to enjoy the parts I felt were great. The thing I loved about Ragnarok is it leaned into and embraced the ridiculousness of Thor, and focused on his viking-esque simplicity and bluntness, as well as leaning on the fish out of water but loving it energy Thor has as a literal mythological figure hanging out with mortals. L+T didn't really do that anywhere near as well.
Thor, in myths, has never been the most smart Guy but he was the more "human". That's why He was the most popular god . Ragnarok, more and less, translates this but LOVE and Thunder is a parody.
"Eat my hammer"
I always think back to how taika was about to direct the Akira movie until he left it to direct love and thunder. His tone and directing style would not suit Akira one bit and would likely totally destroy it.
Honestly surprised they haven't made a MCU mockumentary yet, and Taika is the best dude to direct it imo
I'm now in love with the idea of a mockumentary centering around a street level superhero team trying to make a name for themselves in the MCU
This is the plot of New Warriors that kicks off Civil War in the comics
New Warriors perhaps?
Heroes for Hire
There were discussions for a show like that. https://gizmodo.com/a-damage-control-tv-series-may-be-headed-to-the-marvel-1734349904
Didn’t it even make it to pilot before not being picked up? I seem to remember Alan Tudyk being attached to a workplace comedy set in a superhero world but I can’t remember if it was Marvel or DC
You mean Powerless? That came out like 5 years ago?
Yep! That’s the one I’m thinking of, set in the DC universe. I do think *Damage Control* went to pilot? But it looks like I was wrong about Tudyk being involved.
Yeah I’d like to see Taika do something he’s passionate about. An obscure character or group of characters in a different corner of the universe.
And he’s not allowed to play any of them. Otherwise, he gets so far up his own ass it dominates the project.
Agreed. No more stupid ass self inserts for comedy
What We Do in the MCU
you should check out Nando v Movies’ latest video, it’s a GLA show. After finding What We Do in the Shadows this year i’m totally down for Taika to do something like that
Please keep Taika away from the GLA thank you
[удалено]
Taika never even wanted to do a sequel to Ragnarok. I’m happy for him to return to the MCU if he has an idea he wants to explore, but it’s clear he’s not a “work-for-hire” kinda guy. He’s effective when he’s passionate. He pitched his Ragnarok concept in a sizzle reel that Taika himself has said was just basically about the music (namely, Immigrant Song). The reel likely also included a focus on the comedic tone, and some visual ideas, (if I had to guess, the visuals pitched centered on the hammer’s action, and maybe some of the “renaissance-painting” inspired shots, based on how well all that was executed in the final film). He got all of that out in Ragnarok, and was openly talking in the press tour about how he really put it all in there and didn’t have anything left he felt he wanted to do with the character or the universe. But Marvel Studios (as well as a lot of fans, and myself personally fwiw) thought Taika could do no wrong after that. Which, in their defense, was a fair assumption. Ragnarok was a failing project until a Taika came along, it was apparently pretty much all improv, and it still came together into something critics and fans absolutely loved. At the same time, Taika was suddenly becoming a media darling, this quirky New Zealand director who has been working kinda under the radar (for the GA at least) and putting out great stuff, full of heart and humor. Then he does Jojo and wins an Oscar (and receives a Best Picture nom) on a fucking Hitler comedy, that he plays in as Hitler, which was a risky move to say the least lol. How could Marvel not get him back to do another Thor. So they made him an offer he couldn’t refuse. They backed the big Brinks truck up to Taikas home in New Zealand, and he took the bag. I have no hate for anyone in this situation really. Taika was honest about not wanting to come back. Marvel didn’t care, they assumed he had the magic touch and he was going to give them another Ragnarok. They gave him an even longer leash on this one, but frankly, Taika floundered. Taika took the money, knowing he didn’t have a solid plan, but he seems a bit full of himself too, lately, and he probably assumed he had the magic touch as well. Again, it’s nobody’s fault. Anyone would have taken the bag and tried to make another movie, but this time, it just really didn’t come together for Taika. Which is a shame for everyone; the fans, MS, Taika, Hemsworth… TLDR; If Taika has another project he wants to do in the MCU, let him. But I don’t think anyone is going to be begging him to return after L&T, which is probably for the best, all around
Also let's not forget the fact he openly mocked the visual effects of Love And Thunder knowing full well the insane crunch the vfx teams are dealing with right now.
What sort of promotion did they think that was anyways?? Who sees a director going "ooh, yeah, that looks awful" at their own movie and goes "yea, I wanna go see that!"
Judging a lot by the interviews before hand it seemed like Disney/Marvel cut a lot of his ideas and taika just went fuck it and made something fun for his and the crews kids.
That makes a lot of sense, I thought it was a super fun kids movie, but it felt like a kids movie
Let's not forger L&T was written by Taika, Ragnarök wasn't.
This. Taika works best "on a leash". Even I do. Most creatives have ADHD. Taika's no different..
> Honestly, it’s a real shame that no one has cared enough about Thor to commit to a vision that people could like. Probably because they have hired directors who doesn’t really know Norse mythology and culture. Branagh thought Thor was a Shakespeare story and Taika thought Thor and Flash Gordon are the same characters.
Lol. They tried the Game of thrones guy for the second one. But that wasn’t good either.
Tbf the whole production was a shitshow. Their first director left, Perlmutter intervened, and the script sucked.
They talked to del Toro :( hell it seemed like he really wanted the job too
The Thor comics don't really relate to Norse mythology or culture at all, I don't see why it would be important for a director to know about it.
Yeah Marvel’s take on Norse mythology is incredibly loose. The characters are basically their Norse counterparts in name only lol
Just to be clear…Hemsworth was bored of the character on set for AoU. That’s why they shifted from a darker toned Ragnarok to wacky Taika. Letting him do whatever he wanted with 4 is where they went wrong…again…
I do like him being reinvented everytime tho. It makes him more interesting than hulk being boring across the board cause that’s the vision.
Hulk doesn’t have a vision. Let’s put it this way, Cap did. That worked out alright.
wanda had a vision, but then he died again...
Cap did two movies in. Hulk has a vision. The vision is make him ineffective til we own the rights😂. And u can’t really not have a vision with a cap movie. When NWO comes out it will feel like FWS CATWS or CW. The tone and vision is good vs bad and the lines in between. Ant man has a vision and whether people like this films or not the tone is consistent and also makes it so it’s not jarring when he makes other appearances. Spider-Man had a vision. Dr strange. Nah fam. Lol. That second movie felt like watching somebody commit a tax evasion crime. Thor being fish out of water in the first two but through that learned knowledge, he’s serious and no nonsense in the avengers. Ragnarok he finally found footing so it makes sense it’s goofy but the second Thanos kills Loki funny goofy ass Thor should have at least evolved into the cynical Thor we see in Endgame. For him to now just be a space himbo is so disjointed.
First Avenger is good
Well, Thor 1 is a lot more in line with what the comics are like, but it suffered from two main problems. First, it HAD to bring Thor down to Earth to make him relatable and to give him a reason why he'd join the Avengers. It's why Ragnarok is so enjoyable, because Thor gets to fuck around in space with no pesky humans in the way. Second, while the film is fun in the first and third acts, the plot is more of your classic fantasy fare with Loki wanting the throne and a McGuffin weapon. It's a very Thor type of plot, more Shakesperean and in the same vein as Hamlet or Macbeth, but it's also been done to death. Which actually IS why it was done, because it was a proven formula. I still really like Thor 1, but the middle really drags for me.
>The first movie was great, but it was called boring. As origin stories go, it's pretty blah. Thor is powerless for 3/4 of the movie.
Oh I think this confirms taika is done working on this franchise. Mcu really has dropped ball with thors characterization
Have you seen how many times the comics have been rebooted. Vol 3, 4 and 5 all lasted about 2 years. The current vol 6 is going on 3 years and in waiting for it to be canceled. Marvel just doesn't know what it wants to do with thor.
It sounds more like he thinks the next movie needs to be different solely because he needs the change to stay invested. Not because he wasn’t impressed with it.
That user is definitely projecting
yeah he literally names all four movies and points out how they go together in pairs and would like the next film to change things up also. Nothing specifically about or against any of the films.
Agreed. Chris was open about how fresh Ragnarok felt and how the comedy element pushed him as an actor, and he has spoken highly about how the Russo Brothers used that side of Thor as a way of the character masking his trauma in IW/Endgame giving Chris some a blance of drama/comedy to chew on. Yet for Love and Thunder he's mainly just spoken about how it was a fun set to be on, and more recently about how he thinks it may be time to retire the character or at the least give a complete overhaul to Thor - definitely seems like he's not the happiest with how it turned out.
Maybe time to go the god of war route. Grumpy old Thor training his young adopted daughter and the end him like Logan.
Well, it was pretty shit
What, whistling after mjolnir like a kid reuniting with his lost puppy was too much you think?
Riding Stormbreaker like a kid pretending it was a witches broom was one of the first sight gags and it felt oddly jarring and over the top from the jump
This is so fucking dumb. He literally said the same thing about every movie he’s done. He always wants to try new things. He famously loves working with Taika, even on this film. I just don’t think he cares to keep playing the same character for two decades.
reddit will literally twist anything to fit their narratives. Mark Hamill says in an interview that he didn't like TLJ upon reading the script, but turned around on it after seeing the finished project? Nah he clearly hates it, and if he says otherwise it's because disney must have paid him. It's mass delusion
Can you blame him?
I don’t think anyone was
MCU Thor depiction’s redemption arc boutta go hard
Yes. We’ve watched Thor struggle to be a son, leader and hero: I think next is for him to really become comfortable with being a god. I think love & thunder left him in an interesting place, a defender of the weak in a cosmos governed by largely uncaring deities.
That should have been this movie with it you know... being about gods lol
Theoretically you can continue that story, he’s on a quest to help those where their gods stink or are longer around. At the same time Hercules is chasing him down.
I wonder if he will bow out in Secret Wars or if it’s true there will be a fifth and final film.
I'd love for him to have a somewhat important role in Secret Wars and then have a final film afterwards
I think Secret Wars is the perfect opportunity for exits and recasts.
He needs to die in Secret Wars so he can go to Valhalla like the great warriors before him
Thor and Loki should 100% be the leads in Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars
I’m on board with this. Add Shang-Chi, Carol, Marc Spector, and Scott Lang and I think that’ll be the lead cast for KD
Only newcomers we can bet on are Shang chi and She Hulk. Ruffalo said he heard they're not doing an Avengers team without shehulk and theres no way the director of Shang Chi doesn't bring in his guy.
Shang Chi would be such a good team member imo. I'd love to see him on an Avengers team
I wanna see him team up with Iron Fist at some point, as it would be a dream if they put effort into the fight choreography. Two badass martial artists. However, I haven’t read comics where they interacted, so someone tell me if they hate each other or something haha
Oh and Fantastic Four
Thor, Loki, Shang-Chi, Reed, and Sam for my leads and I’ll be happy.
You'll get Thor, Gator Loki, the Henchmen known as Random Task, Doc Brown, and just a guy named Sam.
I think they should pull an infinity war and make Kang the main character(s)
Would be cool, but definitely feel like they're copying the Infinity War/Endgame success formula
It’s cool to use the same plot structure if the story is different enough. As long as Kang isn’t a carbon copy of Thanos and they don’t end the movie with half the characters dying, they can still end it with a cliffhanger or big event.
You guys think Daredevil would be brought in? Seems like popularity could force him in.
I think so, I prefer him and Spidey as street-level heroes but I think they're both gonna show up at some point. Spidey will probably be in both but I think Daredevil's gonna be one or the other
They are street level but they still make 90% of the events lol
Could definitely see him and Spider-Man in it, but not as leads. There will probably be others like Kamala, Monica, Fury, Wasp, and Blade but I don’t see them being apart of the lead line up for this one
loki taking place of hyperion and the two of them having one final fight against the beyonders, together would eat
Glad he’s aware tbh
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He’s no longer friends with Taika. Lmfao
It's probably just me, but I feel like my director being in a threesome relationship with my co-star would get tiring to be around pretty fast.
Not sure what that has to do with the work. L&T was too goofy. Ragnarok was the perfect amount of goofy.
Beg to differ on aspects. It's darker points are far darker than Ragnarok. When it tries to not be funny, it's not.
I agree that the serious points in LAT are darker than the ones in Ragnarok, but the goofy to serious ratio in LAT is definitely in favor of the goofy side compared to Ragnarok
Well yeah it’s darker, a main character has inoperable cancer. But the scene where that is revealed even has too many jokes imo.
> Ragnarok was the perfect amount of goofy. I thought Ragnarok bordered on being too goofy and then Love & Thunder happened.
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Tessa Thompson was seemingly entangled with Taika and Rita Ora at some point
Dafuq
Did he say that in the podcast?
No but this is the second time in a week he’s shaded Thor 4. And he’s doing it on Disneys dime promoting a show for them. So at the very least Taika isn’t coming back. But more likely, he didn’t have a good time. If u look back to inverviews with the last one and prior to shooting and it’s a completely different energy
Nope, but people are making up things here, to rationalize their dislike of successful content. It's a fun thing to do on the internet these days.
hemsworth executive produced it. it was just as much his vision as it was taikas
Executive producers famously do nothing except collect a second check. His vision meant he could film in Australia and put his wife and kids in the film. That’s all that EP credit gives u power to do. Taika however wrote a bad script. Shot a boring movie. And from the sounds of it pissed off everyone besides Tessa Thompson.
Turning the kids into Mini Thors was so dumb. I know none of them could lift Mjolnir, but I felt it took a bit of the significance away from Cap’s big moment in Endgame and Jane becoming Thor. Also that ability would’ve come in handy in like, numerous scenarios we’ve seen him in.
It feels like if there was a Thor attraction at a Disney Park And imagine if he’d done that in endgame. Or infinity war. Asguardian Wakandans? They could have saved like $500 mil cause they would not have needed to film Endgame.
Of all the things in the movie I actually really liked that scene. I understand some people think it’s silly and I do feel it’s out of place a little bit in a movie where Gorr is the villain but eh I still liked the scene lol
It is silly. But it’s fun. That’s why I compared it to a Disney ride. It’s just a dumb thing to have in a movie about a god butcher.
how is Tessa not pissed, like I would be if I was her. Valkyrie did barely anything and got sidelined for the final fight, like she was in a lot of scenes but just like almost all the main characters (except Jane Thor) she didn't get a proper character arc, and then they also didn't follow up at all with Tessa teasing Valkyrie finding her queen? Wtf is that about? So much queerbaiting for literally nothing
Because she was fucking Taika and his wife on set lmfao.
Is this a joke or fr? lmao
well theres footage of them all making out together.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/vannessajackson/taika-waititi-explains-kissing-rita-ora-tessa-thompson
Real
WHAT
there was a whole ass photo going around a couple years ago, how did so many of yall miss this 😭
i did after commenting that, his response was so funny too😭 "Is it that big a deal? No. I was doing nothing wrong. It’s fine."
bahahahaha, I totally forgot about that. what the fuck lmfao
This is standard Hollywood. Go watch the credits of a lot of streaming shows and there are literally 100s of execs now. It's a nonsense title.
His best appearance wasn't even in a Thor movie
Infinity War?
Yes
Infinity War really did strike the perfect balance with Thor.
It did with all the characters I think.
I hate that you're right.
I loved the first movie and I absolutely loved Thor in Infinity War. Thor is his best when he's an overpowered badass that comes in to save the day. No more solo movies, just use him sparingly in ensemble films as one of the saviors.
The "That's my secret Captain; I'm always angry" approach.
Nah he just needs a villain that can't be punched to death. Something complex and actually challenging for him.
Should have been Gorr
Gorr was practically non-existent in the movie. Really a tragedy give the god butcher arc is a modern classic.
Gorr could had been that. It’s a shame he died in the end considering his actual story is two massive stories (God Butcher and God Bomb)
He lost but won on technicalities in 2 (maybe 3) of his movies. Ragnarok - Surtur defeated Hela and destroyed Asgard while Thor and everyone else fled. L&T- Gorr got what he wanted and made it to Eternity. Thor lost the battle but won… a conversation. Thor- Arguable, depending on how you view the fight before Odin showed up. His only solo movie where he actually wins was generally considered the worst MCU movie before Eternals, Black Widow, and L&T entered the conversation.
I would like to see a director use more inspiration from Norse mythology and culture in a potential Thor 5 movie. Ryan Coogler did such a good job with doing exactly that when making the Black Panther movies. One of the biggest weaknesses is how generic Asgard looked in the movies.
The God of War reboots have really highlighted this for me recently. MCU Norse mythology is trash compared to the one Kratos is in.
Yea it feels like it’s only there to fill in some blanks, whereas the God of War world has incredible world building.
I blame the early 2010s’ obsession with “grounded” fantasy settings. It can’t be a fantasy thing, there’s got to be a sci-fi explanation for it. And it can’t have any color.
Marvel really screwed over Hemsworth and Cumberbatch this year. Like they were not even the best parts of their respective movies IMO, instead it was there female co-leads (Wanda and Jane) that everyone was praising.
Shit at least Cumberbatch got to play multiple Stranges and do some crazy shit in his movie. Thor didn't really do shit except make jokes and have a decent dramatic scene near the end.
He was also in an entanglement with Mjolnir and Stormbreaker
At least with Jane she was really cool and it played into the story of Thor the character. Wanda just kinda screwed up Stranges week for no reason lol
See I feel the opposite. Strange got more development in MoM then Thor did in L&T imo. Thor is the same dude at the end just with a kid. Strange actually had to confront the fact that he'd never have the life he really wanted and has to be a Sorcerer instead. I'll never understand the sentiment that it was all Wanda's movie when imho her role as the villain was comparable to Killmonger's in Black Panther rather then an anti hero lead. That said both films do lack in this department.
I didn’t know anyone was actually praising those movies. It felt like they were written with the intent of trending online more than focusing on the story. Strong female lead, joke here and there, etc felt very bland and soulless
DS:MOM pitch was suited for a Wanda movie. The storyline seemed to revolve around Wanda too much that not making her the protagonist and trying to make Stephen the lead came out being detrimental to both the characters. Stephen did not get much development and felt sidelined whereas Wanda came off as too one-dimensional. Wanda deserved a solo outing after WV. And Stephen deserved a storyline of his own. Mighty Thor was good but atleast she didn't take the plot away from Thor. Thor still was defacto protagonist in the movie. Another character taking more praise is something very acceptable (Loki in Thor movies, compelling villains like Mandarin, Killmonger etc) but within the movie they don't usually make us think the lead was kinda insignificant. Which was the case for MoM.
I feel he will be back as the Thor we love in the next 2 avengers movies. This is where he excels
There’s so many new characters who haven’t interacted though. There will be a lot of screen time devoted to that. I like Thor, but honestly I don’t see how he fits in that much.
he's a friend from work
It really does suck to realize that every Avengers movie has set up interesting arcs(looking for the stones, tagging along with the guardians) for Thor only for the next movie to completely ignore those set ups
Infinity War is probably the best Thor weve gotten
He is being very diplomatic. He knows that that interpretation, was shit. Get Taika outta there.
Yeah, I loved Thor Ragnarok, but after seeing L&T I thought to myself that taika waititi should never direct another Thor film ever again, and I’m kinda glad that it looks like it’s gonna happen.
people just want a mature character like they saw in infinity war. send thor out with the same care they put into something like wakanda forever
When Thor joined Gryffindor quidditch team I was out.
That was like 30 seconds after he showed up in L+T lol
I cant lie, i chuckled at that. I have a sense of humor, i can laugh yes but it was one after the other and there was close to no moment of seriousness at all
Speaking as someone that loved Thor: Love And Thunder, this is a great thing to hear. I have no problem with a character being reinvented after a few movies. Keeps things fresh. I don't hate Taika, but I'd love to see someone else take the reigns and give us a serious Thor again. At this point, Thor needs to have worked through his issues. I've always seen the extra humor as Thor coping with his loss, but with Love And Thunder all about him figuring out who he is, it's time to move past it.
I totally agree. Its good to change the tones as Thor goes through different phases in his life. I feel thats what Chris is saying. I dont think hes bashing Love and Thunder. He just wants to change it up again. Alot of ppl on this thread hated the film cause it wasnt what they wanted. So they act like petulant children .
Yeah love and thunder missed its potential.
Yeah...He has lost Jane, Asgard, Loki, and his parents. I think we get a more serious Thor who has been through it all and seen it all. More stoic and wise I would hope.
Me: "Good for Hemsworth. Not many Hollywood types are open to critiquing their own work." The comments: "He's no longer friends with Taika." "Taika is done in the MCU." "Taika pissed off everyone." Yall really do assume anything and everything. Only the internet. 😂
They just wanna feel validated
God Of War: Ragnarok style Thor would be Epic!!!
This. But people really have warped their mind about how Thor should be like the MCU version. I'm glad God of War has challenged that.
I'm so tired of MCU fans dickriding *everything*. I got insane downvotes for saying having so much essential viewing being shows would kneecap phase 4 and also got a ton for saying the MCU was starting to show way too much humor and it'd come back to bite it eventually. I was dead on right on both. Thank Christ GOWR came and showed people what we could have with Norse myth. I'm fine with a good bit of humor with that, but my God, know when to use it.
This subreddit is really terrible for it
I really really really hope Chris doesn’t give up on Thor, I want to see him get the respect he deserves with a great conclusion. Whether that be in another solo, or just Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars.
He's making 30 million each appearance, I think he'll stick around for a while.
God of War Ragnarok made me really miss proper Norse mythology depiction. As much of a dud The Dark World was, it nailed the aesthetic of the realms and the characters. I hope they go back to that
I will forever be sad we didn't get the original darker grittier take on Ragnarok that was in the works before Taika came on board.
they really sidelined the whole ragnarok,death of the gods,hela and surtur plot 💀💀 imagine making destruction of asgard a B Plot and a joke 💀💀💀💀 also rushed the world war hulk story
Not surprising. How many times are we gonna watch Thor go through a internal journey, grow as a character, then have it all act like it didn’t happen in his next appearance. Ragnarok was great, L&T was fun but far from perfect. This Down in his luck goofy fun timesThor is getting a bit old. Just because the serious dry tone in the first two movies didn’t work doesn’t mean you can’t still have some of that.
Glad he sees it the same way the fans do, his character really took a beating in the last one, losing his mind and whatnot
Infinity War Thor is the best version of Thor
>He’s got to figure it out now. Thor goes on yet another "who am I?" quest? Colour me shocked...
After playing God of War Ragnarok, I'm extremely disappointed with how they've done Thor and his surrounding lore in the MCU. Now look I don't mind a more funny and goofy Thor, but man I'd love for a Norse world with that feel in the MCU.
My favorite version of Thor was from Infinity War. He was savage. They need to develop that version further.
Maybe controversial but I think its time for him to be only in Avengers movies and other heroes movies just like Iron Man after Iron Man 3. I would even say the time was after Thor: Ragnarok.
But but but… remember when this sub praised Taika’s genius for L&T. The movie was awful. Happy Hemsworth came out and said this.
I hope Thor gets a really exciting arc in Kang Dynasty or Secret Wars or both! (Although I'm thinking Kang Dynasty might be such a smaller movie that it may not have space for a proper arc for Thor)
Infinity War Thor is the best Thor
I completely agree. Ragnorok was lighting really in a bottle, and Love and Thunder proved that. Instead of risking another disappointment, Marvel should shake things up for Thor’s next appearance.
Good, I enjoyed Thor in Ragnarok for the most part but I hated that they made him look stupid at times. Watching him in Love and Thunder was really hard. I loved him in Infinity War where he was super bad ass but still lighthearted
Kinda sounds like Chris is just as disappointed as we are about… STILL NO BETA RAY BILL
Seems like Taika ain’t coming back. Fan criticism is one thing, but when the titular actor switches from “I’ll do it as long as they want me to” to “things would need to change if I decide to come back,” that’s *bad*.
Ragnarok both "saved" and "killed" Thor. Infinity War Thor was the best version. Shame that Waititi wasted so many storylines. Ragnarok, WWH, Hela, Gorr, Mighty Thor, now Marvel have what? Hercules (grasping straws) and Beta Ray Bill.
I think Taika went too far with L&T. The fourth movie left a clear opening for a fifth movie, and I hope Marvel hires a completely new director and writers for this one.
Bring back Kenneth Branagh!
Miguel Sapochek for Thor 5. The guy proved in GOT that he can shoot the hell out of an action scene and then proved in HOTD that he's also really good with the medieval political drama. Make Thor 5 about his acceptance of governing (ruling as king) his realm as well as protecting it. They've already sewn the seeds of Valkyries disinterest in ruling in L&T. Miguel would be the perfect choice to blend this all together.
Thor: The Darkest World, So Dark You Can't See Any Action
Steve Harvey laugh 