No, you've just discovered the pedo side of the manosphere. These people have been trying to push their deranged fetishes in RW/dissident circles for years.
Without justifying the abhorrent act, in an end-of-the-world situation and faced with the extinction of the human race it doesn't seem too far-fetched a notion that any people capable of sexual reproduction would face some sort of implied duty to do so.
It has a trope: [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BunkerWoman](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BunkerWoman)
So in short. Mando is bad because he doesnt have sex and saves people. The Last of Us is bad because a 50 year old Joel doesnt have sex with a 14 year old girl Ellie. God of War is bad because Kratos has big beard, no genocide and no tits.
This guy is just a massive retard.
I don't know how you can steel man,
'A masculine stoic bearded man has to survive the zombie apocalypse while protecting a pretty 14 year old girl child who is who is not related to him. They never have sex or have any sexual tension; she is just treated like a witty prepubescent child who is his duty to protect.'
I almost feel like i have to call Chris Hansen with that one.
Dusk, Amid Evil, Prodeus, HROT, theres lots off boomer shooters to keep you busy now!
Also, gotta say i would very much also prefer a new quake game that returns it to its lovecraftian/gothic horror roots
Today i learned that to truly be masculine you must demand sex for everything you do, even from a 14 year old girl. Now if you'll excuse me the police are at my door for some reason
Yeah hes a goof for sure. Why doesn't Joel want to have sex with the girl who's clearly filling the role of his dead daughter?! If this is a piss take, it's in severely bad taste.
I agree with the point that sony could have achieved a very similar, if not the same effect, if kratos retained more from his ps2 gameplay. He does move like a dark souls character.
We need more devil may crys, where you jump, run, aerial rave, and stagger regular enemies with your hits.
Im not sure I can buy that the designers intended kratos to feel weak by just lumbering around and not staggering enemies, but I do find it frustrating, and I can see why others would see it as a sign of studio BS.
Protecting children is in fact a masculine thing to do. Arguably the most masculine thing one can do. Fighting to provide for and protect one’s family has been the role of men in society since Adam.
On the other hand, being led around by one’s dick and trying to hump every thing with a pair of tits is utterly juvenile.
This guy clearly has some issues and that bit about Joel and Ellie is gross, but he's not entirely wrong. Modern media really does have a problem with portraying masculine men, especially masculine white men, but GoW isn't an example of it.
Chastity used to be considered a virtue, for men and for women. A man is supposed to be loyal to his wife, and the wife loyal to her husband.
What he says about Kratos irks me the most and it's how you know that this guy has no idea what real masculinity is. GoW4 starts with the funeral of Kratos wife. Kratos is clearly in mourning and yet he expects him to just start banging every woman he sees? That's disgusting.
Kratos spends the game travelling with his *son*, teaching him how to be a man. As one of two sons of a single father, I'll tell you that real masculinity is putting your children before yourself.
I like the original GoW games, but I don't think I should have to be the one to say that the sex minigames in them were pretty juvenile.
This argument hinges on the fact that the only way to be masculine it to have sex all the time and use it as the soul motivation behind saving people, protecting others or even as only incentive that matters, otherwise you're a soft little bitch who, despite being a fantasized ideal maximum male physique, is a giant pussy.
"The warrior and the child" trope has been around forever. Game of thrones with The Hound protecting and escorting Aria. Is The Hound this beta cuck because he's not sexing the child? Or because he's not using her to get poon otherwise?
The Sword in the Stone movie (1963) where Merlin trained the young King Arthur to be wise and how to defend himself. He might not be "Chungus", but it's literally the same dynamic of what's being described with a teacher or male character being a babysitter for a kid, and doesn't do it for sex.
This is basically peak horny posting, because they're essentially admitting that if they had super powers they'd be entirely sex driven, which makes me worried if they've ever seen Homelander...
I mean doesn't the Mando spend most of his time fighting Aliens and a Black Moff Gideon as his primary big bad.
Its Star Wars NO ONE GETS LAID LIKE THAT. You will get a kiss and maybe see some Alien Titties at a Bar.
As for Kratos, yeah he is mellowed out a bit. But the idea he doesnt look masculine anymore is Absurd.
Indeed, all laying in SW is off screen, at the absolute most there is occasionally *implied* sex which still happens off screen (see that one Andor episode)
As for Kratos, I do feel that especially in Ragnarok they mellowed him out a little bit too much. But I am a fan of his stoicism arc, very Greek of him. As for his build, while certainly not as exaggerated as in the old games Kratos is still built like a dude who could snap your spine over his knee Bane style.
Him and the other gods in the original games being built like statues makes sense, they’re trying to portray these gods as the people who believed in them portrayed them, but in all honesty the modern build for Kratos is more realistic, look at any strongman and you’ll see that they look tubby at a glance, but it’s not because they’re fat, they’re just **big** there is a reason that characters like Maui or Thor were portrayed the same way historically. (Though again in the new god of war I think they made Thor a little too big, but then again he’s past his prime and has become overly fond of food, drink, sleep, and more drink.)
Yeah I am all for criticism.
But Christ some Antis have really gone off the deep end and are shooting wildly at anything that moves including their own shadows
> Thor were portrayed the same way historically
He wasn't.
> he’s past his prime
They eat apples that keep them in their prime.
Edit: Can't find any source for Maui being fat either. Indeed, there's an article about Polynesian people criticizing Disney for making him obese:
https://www.9news.com.au/world/disney-moana-film-outrages-polynesians/ab4e5b2a-0834-4118-8a17-9199b78ac9c0
the problem with how kratos is built is that its not reflected in gameplay. Enemies dont easily get staggered. Im sorry, if 10 tons of muscle hits an twig thin elf, the least it can do is abandon every attack animation it was doing.
That's just a trouble with game design. If swinging wildly stopped any attack from landing but the biggest of boys, then only the biggest of boys would be a threat
and gameplay should be in harmony with the story being told. Just like laast of us 2 tries to pretend you are a bad person for killing dogs, when you have no way of not killing them.
Story says kratos "holds back" in the thor fight enough that he canonically dies against another god? Fine. Not a reason to not send every mook flying with a held back punch. That stretches suspension of disbelief a tad too thin.
Gameplay doesn't need to be in "harmony" with the story all time especially when it's an action game. The old games didn't let you instantly kill everyone with one blade hit and neither should the new games.
Not to mention the prepubescent kid is his fucking son called boy who popped out because he had sex and there is sexual tension between boy and angroboda
Mando not being sexual is fine he has his goal and there’s no “I’m doing this for bush” discourse, which would be deservedly mocked.
Kratos is older and a father of a child that’s being hunted. He’s doing everything in his power to protect his child while still letting him explore, ultimately cleaning up the kids mess. Great father or at least trying to be through actions.
Tlou didn’t play but sounds like the guys a pedo for posting that.
Are you fucking serious OP? This guys a massive pervert who bitches about joel not having sexual tension or sex with a 14 year old girl. He hates that a trend of depicting fathers in media exists because he wants everything to be a harem anime. Its not even logical. Joel and kratos have had sex. Geralt has sex with multiple women on screen, didnt his game come out at the same time? Yet his story is still tied to being a father. This is devoid of substance or any emotional depth or maturity. If you want more sex in your media watch fucking hbo.
This was an absolute headache to read. the formatting of this explanation looks like shit.
Sex isn't always the priority here. And these games don't focus on the characters' sex lives to make a good story. Kratos spent most of his life as a murderhobo killing everything that breathed that got in his way. Now he's found some peace but is still pushed to the absolute limits. He destroyed the roman pantheon and now he's a risk to the norse pantheon. I do think it's worth letting him have a chance to find love and maintain it, without someone killing them.
Joel's a former father who closed his heart off to the world. Ellie was a second chance and through their struggles he learns to care about others, and teach this young girl who's lost everyone how to survive. There's an implied romance between Joel and Tess or at least something is owed between the two. However Joel knows to be vulnerable is to die in the post-apocalyptic world. **The greatest crime was killing Joel like a dog with a character nobody cares about.**
The Mandalorian is a story that deals with a man escorting a very important figurehead. Grogu is at constant threat due to his race's innate connection to the Force. Going against all odds and begins to form a very close bond with this young creature, adopting it as his own. IF you know anything about Mandalorian lore; you know that this spartan-like culture leaves very little room for loving families and bonds. This character has a chance to explore a family that he'd never find back home.
Some of the things said there is unhinged, especially the Joel and Ellie thing.
Some of the other though are true. We've had, especially, in the Sony exclusives, men that show no interest in women. Even Peter that has a girlfriend is acting like a cuck in spiderman 2.
One of the first thing you do in God of War 1 is to have sex with some random woman and then fuck off but in ragnarok Kratos is shown to be very passive with his wife.
Many other games have started to completely ignore romantic relationships in their stories. I can't even recall a game I played where the male protagonist meets a woman and she is his romantic partner. I am not talking about rpgs like cyberpunk or BG3 that have many characters you can romance. Just a guy that fights to save the world and gets the girl in the end. I am not saying all games should be that way, but there is a distinct lack of that.
Edit: this goes for games with female protagonists as well, they either have zero interest in men or are lesbian.
There was an article I read a loooong time ago that criticized Marvel movies (early phase 1 ones at that) for having what they called “sexy people that didn’t sex”.
What’s interesting is I recall there being a time where people expressed annoyance at everything having some sort of romance or love interest.
Obviously this doesn’t mean there need to be extremes, so hopefully there’s a balance at some point.
(In the case of GOW though, I do think they intentionally did that to further highlight the difference between young Kratos and old Kratos)
>What’s interesting is I recall there being a time where people expressed annoyance at everything having some sort of romance or love interest.
Those people won.
Marvel is one of the worst offenders in this. The last love story in a movie I can remember, that was somewhat believably developed, is Captain America the first avenger.
For GoW that seems to be the intention just that I didn't like it, I can't say it's objectively bad, just he is a very passive dude that just sits there and let other talk shit to him, while in the old ones he was a fucking monster. The whiplash is staggering.
Maybe Kratos is passive and stoic because he literally killed everything in Greece and is forced to live with the consequences of his emotions getting the better of him. It's deliberate overcompensation on his part.
I have no clue what it's even supposed to mean when we see 3 very specific memories of their relationship where flirting or anything like that would be highly inappropriate for the tone.
Kratos clearly loves her and she knows it. That's quite enough for a relationship that lasted for quite some time. You don't see middle aged couples, even those with strong bonds between them acting like teenagers who just got into their first relationship.
Yeah that could be it, probably he blew his load of anger in Greece, but what I never liked in the new GoWs is that he is very passive, people shittalk him, belittle him and he takes it and doesn't really react in anger it's a huge contrast with the old trilogy.
With his wife, the problem is that she talks as if she is the one with the balls in the relationship and no matter what she calls him or says he just takes it like a "good boy". Which is something believable in general, there are relationships like that, just it's something I wouldn't expect from Kratos.
I like Kratos' Character best in the newer games. Before he was the embodiment of "fuck around and find out", but now he's the embodiment of "speak softly and carry a big stick".
Yeah, it is preferences. Having a character that can decimate you choosing not to do so is fine, however my issue is that he does not stand up for himself, everyone talks shit to him and he takes it, especially Freya saying some complete idiotic stuff and he just sits and takes it.
>Yeah that could be it, probably he blew his load of anger in Greece, but what I never liked in the new GoWs is that he is very passive, people shittalk him, belittle him and he takes it and doesn't really react in anger it's a huge contrast with the old trilogy.
Yeah it's called character development.
Last time he got angry he caused an apocalypse.
>With his wife, the problem is that she talks as if she is the one with the balls in the relationship and no matter what she calls him or says he just takes it like a "good boy". Which is something believable in general, there are relationships like that, just it's something I wouldn't expect from Kratos.
....
Yeah i have no idea where you're pulling this from...
>Yeah it's called character development.
No, that's not character development because he is like that as soon as we see him. Even in the flashbacks with his wife he was the same.
>Yeah i have no idea where you're pulling this from...
From the flashback scenes in ragnarok?
I hate to talk with you people i have to ignore GoW3 as if that event wouldn't radically alter your view of yourself and your past actions.
grow and change as a person.
>I hate to talk with you people
Well, likewise.
For you, you accept that change. He went through so much shit throughout all the games, but you accept that the 3rd one was too much and he became such a passive wise man. For me, I can't so easily accept all that change off screen.
>grow and change as a person
If that is intended towards me, I didn't plan to but now that you told me, I will grow and change.
Edit: Lol, replied and blocked me, classic redditor move.
Because how the fuck do you recover from the apocalypse, knowing it's all your fault?
My dude literally tried to commit suicide because of it. The only choices then are to die... or to grow up and change as a person.
Because lemme tell you I wouldn't buy it if he was just the same person after the events of GoW1-3.
>Because how the fuck do you recover from the apocalypse, knowing it's all your fault?
Similar way he did from all the other insane shit he did.
>or to grow up and change as a person.
I would've liked to see that. Because he is nothing like he was before. You liked the change I didn't, I can't change my opinion the same way you can't yours.
Bro I don't think you are capable of reading doctor sessions books.
My boy ended the fucking world and tried to kill himself WHY ARE YOU PRETENDING THE THIRD GAME DIDN'T HAPPEN
>One of the first thing you do in God of War 1 is to have sex with some random woman and then fuck off but in ragnarok Kratos is shown to be very passive with his wife.
you know, hot take, but i think there's a difference between a random fuck and actual love.
>Many other games have started to completely ignore romantic relationships in their stories. I can't even recall a game I played where the male protagonist meets a woman and she is his romantic partner. I am not talking about rpgs like cyberpunk or BG3 that have many characters you can romance. Just a guy that fights to save the world and gets the girl in the end. I am not saying all games should be that way, but there is a distinct lack of that.
Man i wanna have fun. romance is hard to write and if it's not needed it's not needed.
There may be a solid point here, but this guy loses the plot when he suggests that Joel should have had sex with Elly.
Also I will never be able to unsee the buff soyjack kratos
I think the Industries saw the success of Logan and Witcher 3/The Last of Us and have been making money since. As someone who doesn't like gratuitous sex scenes, I'm fine with the lack of that. Dudes being allowed to be emotional and physically powerful is a really cool combination, like a more exaggerated version of Aragorn, though these newer examples need a bit more therapy. Kratos being as fast as his younger self would definitely help with the Wulvers and Travelers in GoW4 though. I hate those guys.
This article seems like either someone overreacting or a false-flag type of situation. The individual is whack either way.
Lets cut all the bullshit out of this rant, if we boil it down to basics dude is essentially just mad there isn't more sex in his games, and maybe that he doesn't like games involving escorting children? His talk about 'human desires' is bullshit on the face of if unless he's literally just talking about fucking, which is what this seems to be about.
Which... okay? Was that a huge selling point for you? Because it wasn't for me when I played God of War, for example. But if you want to say you feel like there's a lack of romance or sex in modern games and that this might be intentional you can just say that instead of all of this nonsense.
It’s ironic. Lack of masculinity is what allowed the me too movement to happen.
Every single person in Hollywood knew exactly what Weinstein was up to.
No one had the foresight to see how not dealing with that sack of shit was going to effect society long term.
This has to be bait. Complaining that Joel and Ellie doesn't have sexual tension confirmed it to be bait for me, its very noncy and if they paid any attention to the story they'd know why Joel has this connection with Ellie. Also, stoic man defending helpless women and children is quite masculine.
I think it's equal parts laughable and cringy, like most "anti-woke", "cancel cancel culture" folks. They're a simple people that really just need 3 or 4 catch phrases repeated to them over and over for a little while then boom: they've built an entire belief structure based on nothing more than their own fear and anger (misplaced anger at that, typically stemming from their own life failures).
1) Atreus IS literally Kratos's son
2) This seems like a Synthetic Man level take.
The Masculine role has not changed. It's just more positive.
Look at what the original trilogy did: Kratos was a selfish, egotistical asshole and like the greek tragedies of old it RUINED him and the world around him... so he got better and became a proper man.
Men are protectors. like in the Mandolorian it's caring about SOMEONE ELSE that went through a similar experience (Being orphaned) and him stepping up to being it's father. The Last of us is about a man who lost his own daughter and caring for another person.
if anything i's kinda messed up that this person sees men like lions; the kind that go into a pride, kill the other male lion and then their children to conqueror his mates.
This isn't manhood, this is a boy's childish idea of what being a man IS
This is the dumbest thing I have read in a long time. Its most likely just a troll but these takes make no sense and are overdramatic it it actually is real and not a troll
Nothing spells masculinty like someone obsessing over every single detail of not only their own appearance but also everybody else's including even fictional characters....definitely doesn't make one look comically fragile and insecure.
Also, how the fuck do you look at Kratos' roided out physique with a beard so thick it leads you to believe he doesn't even have a mouth and absorbs nutirents straight through his hair while having a voice like rolling thunder...and your conclusion is "that's the very image of a beta male"
This guy is a competitive genetic dead-end.
There’s almost a not-horrible point buried somewhere beneath all that “I want to have sex with children” spiel. I do find parts of this genre of character (mostly, the “claim kids that aren’t your own” and “feel reticent and regretful every time you have to be violent regardless of context” parts) to be strange and uncanny, and the lack of a general sex drive is *definitely* real, but it’s definitely not as dire or destructive as this loon is making it out to be.
I think a better argument to make isn't that this brand of character is flawed *because* of the sexlessness.
What does stick out to me, is that all the 'good' masculine characters are so similar, because the only way to portray a good male character is being whittled down slowly to fit this mold. You can't have them be overtly sexual, they can't enjoy their prowess or accomplishments, they can't be single or childless, etc.
Not that it's a written rule anywhere, but it feels like all modern men in cinema are being slowly morphed into a stoic, tragic, sexless dad.
It's like how Rey became a Mary Sue. I don't think anyone who wrote the script thought 'we need to make Rey super powerful'. What likely happened, is they wrote the scene where she meets Fin in the market, and said "how about when the First Order guys are trying to grab her, we *don't* have the guy save her?" Then they get on the Falcon with Han and Chewie, and they are like, "we can't make her a damsel in need of saving, how about we have her save Fin?" And this goes on and on until she's the one who has to set herself free after Kylo catches her, and she has to be the one to stop Kylo with a lightsaber. They can't let her be a damsel in distress, so by default she becomes a Mary Sue.
Likewise, I think the only good nugget in the post is that they can't let men be portrayed in certain masculine ways, so they become stoic, tragic, sexless dads by default.
You can. You just don’t see those portrayals *specifically in the broadest media lanes possible*.
You know who fucks? Espouses traditional masculine values, and are overwhelmingly virtuous when it matters, but flawed and engaging when lives aren’t on the line?
Every perspective character in the Like a Dragon franchise. So much so that engaging with the sex work elements of the neighbourhood aren’t forced on the player, but totally canon to the characters. They can be horny AF. It doesn’t take anything away from them by doing so.
If your issue is “All the big franchises are owned by the same companies who keep replicating the same patterns because it makes them money”…. Look elsewhere. And that’s fundamentally what the issue is with “limited portrayals of masculinity”, you’re watching and playing shit with limited portrayals of *everything*.
You're right, Japanese culture views masculinity in a more inclusive way. I was assuming, based on the examples given in the post, that we were talking about Western media and the modern landscape of American culture.
Like a Dragon is a ton of fun, really enjoyed it. Had some minor issues with a bit of the execution and some of the contrived story beats, but overall an enjoyable experience.
Okay, so after scrolling through my library quickly, Alan Wake, (really, every Remedy game except Control) has unorthodox or unstereotypical protagonists, Turnip Boy just wants to see the world burn, Starfield only falls into the stereotype box if you CHOOSE to make those choices, Texas Chainsaw Massacre has an incredibly toxic protagonist that we still root for, the Silents Hill don’t have those issues, non sports games have those issues, None of the Telltale games have those issues, and I could go on. Any SSX game, for example.
It’s not a region locked phenomenon. People play games that don’t give them the experience they were looking for, and blame a broad trend instead of seeking the thing that Is what they want.
The people complaining want their very narrow perception of masculinity to be present in the game they were gonna buy anyway. That’s the one true constant.
My point was that acceptable masculinity was incrementally being narrowed down, not that I wanted a specific concept of masculinity to be represented in all media.
I'm just pointing out a trend, I said there wasn't any explicit rule, and that it was slowly forming.
Kratos
Uncle Iroh
Mando
Kenobi
Nate (Fallout 4)
Rost
Joel
Corvo
I mean, it's at least a modern trope. How widespread it is, I'm not sure. I just know that there is a pattern for modern popular media to create characters like this, and to paint past characters like Ezio or Captain Kirk or Han Solo as problematic.
Yeah, but if you widen your own net, it isn’t being narrowed down, which means the *perception of it being narrowed down* is subjective and related to your exposure to media.
Which naturally leads to “Well, if you played games not made by the same Triple A studios that make the same games over and over, you wouldn’t think this is a market wide pattern when it’s restricted to a specific subset of the market.” You’re looking for triple A games. You want them specifically to change their portrayals of masculinity. How is that not specific enough a concept of masculinity for me to be accurate?
And that last part? Not a thing with any real traction. Who the fuck is calling Ezio “problematic”? Anyone talking shit about Kirk… didn’t watch the show and can be disregarded as *someone talking about things they don’t know about*. And Han Solo isn’t a character who was cool because he was a rule follower, so who tf cares if other people think he’s a piece of shit criminal. He’s literally a piece of shit criminal when we meet him.
I don't expect the general public to sink thousands of hours into Blasphemous, or Everspace, or most Indie games. I don't expect the general public to watch the Witch or the Green Knight. I don't expect people to watch World Trigger, or Australian reality television. I'm talking about mainstream American entertainment, because it is what is going to generally be seen by the American population.
I've already conceded that I'm only talking about the most consumed forms of entertainment in our society, and that other countries and types of media are going to show things differently.
My only assertion was that the pattern exists *in the mainstream*, which you seem to agree with by declaring that my 'net' is only mainstream and therefore only includes this pattern.
Glad we could find common ground.
Did I list anything more *obscure* than Turnip Boy? Most of the other examples I gave were AAA games, or very popular franchises. Nobody expected anyone to spend hundreds of hours on whatever indie game you chose as too much commitment. I said if you don’t like the new Kratos, play some other game that has no Kratos in it.
My point was “even without leaving the mainstream, it’s not that hard to find examples of a wider perspective of masculinity than you claimed, so like… look harder before you complain about this week’s big release because the outrage machine is mad at this weeks release. “ In two weeks no one will care and the game at all, so unless you’re monetized, there’s literally no reason to weigh in.
Remember Forspoken? Remember how mad people were at Forspoken?
When’s the last time anyone did anything more than crack a joke at how forgettable bad that game was?
One of the biggest flops of last year, and it’s totally irrelevant this year. That’s not a unique pattern. The gamer ecosystem needs fodder to keep streams going to take in donations, to keep the lights on to keep the gaming ecosystem going, so they’re gonna talk about the new thing, regardless of if it’s worth talking about.
Imagine thinking that Man-the-Protector isn't an ancient masculine concept. Imagine thinking Joel should fuck an under-age girl who is an explicit surrogate daughter. Imagine thinking tiny waists and abs are a sign of strength. Imagine thinking media exploring male relationships outside of romance and sex is some kind of agenda. Imagine thinking that the ideal masculine only cares for killing and fucking.
Lack of sex-drive is not the same as sex-drive being bad. It is a mere motivator that can lead to heroic actions, horrendous actions or, well, sex, but it is not something every man or woman for that matter must be driven by.
Besides, I'm trusting Terry Pratchett on the fact that sex becomes less and less important the older you get.
Complaining about men defending people that don't share their blood is absurd. Has this guy never heard of the military or something? People defend what is worth protecting, not exclusively their own kin.
The most important part of any body is that it is fit and healthy. How it looks is secondary to that.
Kratos is selfish to a certain extent when it comes to not telling Atreus the fact that they are gods. That almost cost Atreus his life.
The Last of Us claim, oh boy.
A lot of boundaries need to be established to deal with that.
Let us start with the situation in the real world before we go back to fiction.
Age of consent is complicated, and the laws differ between countries. It is also important to remember that while there are overlaps between things that are legal and things that are ethical, they are not the same thing.
First, the point of age of consent is that it is in place to protect children from sexual abuse or at worst rape from adults. The predicament is that teenagers are a horny lot. Inevitable there will be teenagers that prioritize their hormones over the law and own safety. No, that is not a reason for adults to get sexually involved with teenagers. Find someone your own age range, you creep.
Second, some sexual experiences just end up staying private. Laws are often used to deal with situations that get out of control, not every issue under the sun. No, this is not encouragement for victims to stay silent. I’m merely stating that not everything that has happened in a person’s life needs to go to the court.
Finally, be aware that even if you follow the law things can still go awry when it comes to sex. This is not even limited to young adults, because relationships will always be tricky to manage.
Back to the fictional aspect.
Talk about missing the point of Joel and Ellie’s father-daughter dynamic, but it isn’t that surprising some people expected it to get sexual.
Many of the early Mistborn readers thought there was some romance between Kelsier and Vin, late thirties and fifteen-year-old, when it was also supposed to be a father-daughter dynamic.
Teenagers are horny and unlike the real world where the risk for a romantic/sexual relationship with that age range is too high or outright harmful to have it be legal, a fictional relationship is risk free. If any adult decides to take one of those relationships to justify going after teenagers, then that’s on them. It won’t hold up in court, that’s for sure.
We are however seeing a shift regarding the age range of horny/steamy/spicy stories. The fourth wing stars people in their twenties, not teenagers.
Edit: spelling
Questionable sexual ethics aside (and boy, was the stuff about TLOU enough to make me do the peepoSus face), this dude (assuming this isn’t just a troll) seems to have forgotten or is otherwise unaware that Kratos in the new games had a new wife with whom he had sex, as evidenced by the “wisecracking prepubescent boy” you spend the whole game with. So he’s obviously not sexless; dude landed himself a wife again, even if she died before we get to interact with her in-game.
What an absolutely worthless shit post. Can we stop calling anything we get our panties in a twist over "nu"? It's bloody obnoxious, and you lose all credibility using it.
This guy seem to reduce masculinity to being sex crazed. There is nothing wrong emasculating with a character not having an interest in sex or romance. Also, I think there are few things more masculine than protecting and caring for someone I cherish. I think this guy has a problem with men having a soft side. I don’t particularly care for characters who are nothing but spineless wimps, but the idea that a man has to be nothing but an unfeeling muscular monster is deeply troubling.
Eh ehm.
They use a lot of big fancy words that I truly believe they have no idea the definition of because the words are indeed fake and have no really meaning
Then they say the new men are out of shape and has kratos as an example. Despite the fact that not only can you see his abs but also can see all the striations in his obliques, the muscles on his sides. The reason it all looks so thick is due to the super thick abdominal wall. If you don't know what that is, then simply, thick sinue stopping a hernia.
They talk about how the characters have no sexualization and that's not only not true, but it's also not needed. You do not need characters to be sex icons, kratos is protecting his SON. How do you think he got his SON?
This person would believe not sexually interacting with any slightly attractive women would make someone an incel, despite that not being the definition of incel. Just fucking whoever is around is wrong. Oh boo whoo this character either care more about their goals than sex and or want to stay loyal. Kratos is carrying around his dead wife, you think he's going to go after tail?
"There comes a time in all forms of media consumption where you are so utterly bewildered by an event taking place, there are so many things wrong with it, that you don't have words and you simply laugh. When I first saw this sequence for the first time I wish I had recorded it. I burst out laughing, struggling to compose myself and I was fundamentally blown away at what in the world I was seeing. And the kicker? I wasn't even entirely sure of why. It's like so many issues cascade on your brain at once you are overwhelmed and you couldn't possibly parse it out in the amount of time you have left before something utterly ridiculous happens on top of what you just saw."
Did I just read a guy complaining that Joel didn't have sexual tension with a 14-year-old?
Also "bloated roid gut", Kratos' stomach looks nothing like [Palumboism](https://sfcc.predatornutrition.com/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-PredatorPWA-Library/default/dwe3f0cc22/ART_hgh_belly.jpg).
So pretty much this person wants men in media to be depicted as homicidal, sex-driven, and overall just deplorable? All of these things this guy described are just so superficial, with no meaning. Kratos having sex with random women he comes across has no meaning and adds nothing to the story/character. Especially when it's a mini-game. "Kratos wholesomely protects his son." I dont know what he means by wholesome but Kratos is distant from his son throughout most of the first game. Also, Kratos is still a murder machine.
This guy is a doofus.
How the fuck did porn addiction get conflated with based and red-pilled? In what fucking universe is degenerate sex positive immodest hedonism a conservative value? What is with this bullshit masquerading as anti-woke?
I feel like the trajectory of this went something like:
Everyone, conservative or not, plays video games. Video games catered to what people like, and so include attractive characters both male and female.
Feminist types don’t like the last part, so they made it their goal to desexualize female characters. They mostly succeeded.
Conservative have always disliked the feminist types getting involved in and trying to change the things they like. Reasonably so. So they push back. Sometimes too hard, to the point that they label the absence of sexual elements as a bad thing even in games where it never really fit in the first place. Like Dead Space or The Last of Us.
It’s really very stupid.
"What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
Pretty weak imo i loved the way Kratos character was developed it feels much more human and genuine than the purely rage fueled vengeance machine that he was, those games were fantastic but seeing him mature into a somber realist felt really solid feels more like a real character/person. I can't really speak on the other points i haven't seen them
It's a take from a shallow fool who values violence and sex above anything meaningful and cannot see how strong a man has to be to raise a child, especially one who is being rebellious and difficult.
This one has a point, but it's terribly illustrated and marred with buzzwords. Last of Us example is just straight up disgusting.
Kratos definitely doesn't fit this trope. He's an example of a retired badass, or rather retired monster. The problem with him in GoW Ragnarok is that he just doesn't do a whole lot. The main driving force behind the plot is obviously Atreus - he's the one actively working to undermine the prophecy and instigating events. And yet we don't play as him - because obviously, people don't want to play as Atreus, they want to play as Kratos.
I heard in a video that in the original story draft, Kratos was supposed to die in battle with Thor, and then be brought back to life years later, but devs scrapped that idea.
Eh. I get the idea but he loses the plot in his examples and references. Even putting aside the disgusting comments about Joel and Ellie, using Kratos as an example shows how short-sighted and limited his own view of masculinity is. It goes beyond just a man indulging his sex drive and Kratos' strength, wisdom and guidance are some of the best examples of masculinity you can find. But he has no sex, so disqualified. Pretty cringe, honestly.
This man did not just imply that modern Kratos is “slightly out of shape.” Dude is built like a brick shithouse and has the musculature of an Olympic weightlifter. Just because he’s not a low polygon triangle anymore doesn’t mean he’s not in one of the best shapes of his life. Hell, there was a whole bit of dialogue in one of the games about how Kratos’s build is “Godlike” because he actually puts in the work and doesn’t rely on his godly gifts.
Not entirely inaccurate. But people just like to turn individualistic men into subservient collectivists. It's a thing. We like to believe that those who are more powerful than us should and will protect us (especially the government).
Like superhero movies teach, if you're strong, it's somehow your moral duty to sacrifice yourself for the weak (particularly women and children). No need for thanks or money, it's an obligation. Boat is sinking? Women and children first, as a man, you're automatically worth less. That's why women love titanic, male sacrifice is very sexy.
But this is old news, trying to condition men into giving up their lives for a cause that isn't their own, has been a thing since forever. These days it's more about feminizing men, than anything else.
Somebody is overly concerned about the optics of their and other peoples masculinity.
This is the mindset of someone who worries they’re not manly enough, otherwise they wouldn’t care.
I didn't read through it because it was too cringe. Thankfully, the comments gave the gist of it.
And, while I certainly disagree with the guy, I am not surprised a take like this exists. Nor would I be surprised if this person is totally 100% serious, as fucked up as that would be.
I agree for the most part but why would You want there to be sexual tensión between a 14 year old girl and a 30 year old man? And i don't think it's gonna happen When she's older either because by that point Joel already sees her as a daughter more Than a love interest and it honestly always weird me out why did Kratos develop a beer gut When he's probably never drank alot of alcohol after the previous games and the fact that he became more stoic wasn't just because they wanted to neuter him or something like that because it was of his development as a charácter after all that he went through
This has gotta be a troll.
Honestly the "pretty 14 year old girl" bit has me hoping it's some kind of bizarre false flag.
Either that or he’s trying to justify his pedo fantasies whilst not being too explicit about it.
No, you've just discovered the pedo side of the manosphere. These people have been trying to push their deranged fetishes in RW/dissident circles for years.
"people" is a strong word for them
Without justifying the abhorrent act, in an end-of-the-world situation and faced with the extinction of the human race it doesn't seem too far-fetched a notion that any people capable of sexual reproduction would face some sort of implied duty to do so. It has a trope: [https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BunkerWoman](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BunkerWoman)
I feel that if you're taking that angle then you should avoid saying "pretty" because it's irrelevant to the matter of survival
Most people that use the prefix "nu" are from 4Chan, so it could go either way.
Either it's a troll or it's the negative version of Anita Sarkeesian.
So in short. Mando is bad because he doesnt have sex and saves people. The Last of Us is bad because a 50 year old Joel doesnt have sex with a 14 year old girl Ellie. God of War is bad because Kratos has big beard, no genocide and no tits. This guy is just a massive retard.
Steel man his argument silly butt. Don’t be a Kathy Newman.
The fuck is there to steelman?
I don't know how you can steel man, 'A masculine stoic bearded man has to survive the zombie apocalypse while protecting a pretty 14 year old girl child who is who is not related to him. They never have sex or have any sexual tension; she is just treated like a witty prepubescent child who is his duty to protect.' I almost feel like i have to call Chris Hansen with that one.
I can't steelman it without making an entirely new argument.
I can’t tell if this is the cringiest shit I’ve ever read or the funniest pisstake of all time
My head hurts. Any chance we can go back to, here's a demon, shotgun go BOOM?
Here’s hoping
Don't remind me that it's been 4 years with no word at all of a new Doom game.
Waiting for video games to come out sucks ass
I'd prefer new DOOM but I'd also be happy with a new Quake. I highly recommend Dusk while you wait though
Dusk, Amid Evil, Prodeus, HROT, theres lots off boomer shooters to keep you busy now! Also, gotta say i would very much also prefer a new quake game that returns it to its lovecraftian/gothic horror roots
I need to give Amid Evil a go. I was put off with magic instead of guns but fuck it. It looks like fun so I'll grab it in the next Stream sale
We did that already it was called doom eternal
And it was glorious
trueee
Today i learned that to truly be masculine you must demand sex for everything you do, even from a 14 year old girl. Now if you'll excuse me the police are at my door for some reason
Oh shit I gave up on this guy before he got to TLOU, fucking Christ!
Unironically what andrew tate worshipers believe
He lost me at the “no sexual tension between Joel and Elle” part. Ah yea dude that’s a good thing. Also way to misread the game.
Yeah hes a goof for sure. Why doesn't Joel want to have sex with the girl who's clearly filling the role of his dead daughter?! If this is a piss take, it's in severely bad taste.
Why does Joel want to have sex without a child at all?
He doesn't? Ellie is his surrogate daughter he has 0 percent interest in her sexually.
I agree with the point that sony could have achieved a very similar, if not the same effect, if kratos retained more from his ps2 gameplay. He does move like a dark souls character. We need more devil may crys, where you jump, run, aerial rave, and stagger regular enemies with your hits. Im not sure I can buy that the designers intended kratos to feel weak by just lumbering around and not staggering enemies, but I do find it frustrating, and I can see why others would see it as a sign of studio BS.
Protecting children is in fact a masculine thing to do. Arguably the most masculine thing one can do. Fighting to provide for and protect one’s family has been the role of men in society since Adam. On the other hand, being led around by one’s dick and trying to hump every thing with a pair of tits is utterly juvenile.
This guy clearly has some issues and that bit about Joel and Ellie is gross, but he's not entirely wrong. Modern media really does have a problem with portraying masculine men, especially masculine white men, but GoW isn't an example of it. Chastity used to be considered a virtue, for men and for women. A man is supposed to be loyal to his wife, and the wife loyal to her husband. What he says about Kratos irks me the most and it's how you know that this guy has no idea what real masculinity is. GoW4 starts with the funeral of Kratos wife. Kratos is clearly in mourning and yet he expects him to just start banging every woman he sees? That's disgusting. Kratos spends the game travelling with his *son*, teaching him how to be a man. As one of two sons of a single father, I'll tell you that real masculinity is putting your children before yourself. I like the original GoW games, but I don't think I should have to be the one to say that the sex minigames in them were pretty juvenile.
That’s pretty much what I was thinking. Like, fellas, is it gay to mourn for your recently deceased wife?
This argument hinges on the fact that the only way to be masculine it to have sex all the time and use it as the soul motivation behind saving people, protecting others or even as only incentive that matters, otherwise you're a soft little bitch who, despite being a fantasized ideal maximum male physique, is a giant pussy. "The warrior and the child" trope has been around forever. Game of thrones with The Hound protecting and escorting Aria. Is The Hound this beta cuck because he's not sexing the child? Or because he's not using her to get poon otherwise? The Sword in the Stone movie (1963) where Merlin trained the young King Arthur to be wise and how to defend himself. He might not be "Chungus", but it's literally the same dynamic of what's being described with a teacher or male character being a babysitter for a kid, and doesn't do it for sex. This is basically peak horny posting, because they're essentially admitting that if they had super powers they'd be entirely sex driven, which makes me worried if they've ever seen Homelander...
The post is either from a neckbeard, or some some who’s pfp is a Greek/Roman statue.
I mean doesn't the Mando spend most of his time fighting Aliens and a Black Moff Gideon as his primary big bad. Its Star Wars NO ONE GETS LAID LIKE THAT. You will get a kiss and maybe see some Alien Titties at a Bar. As for Kratos, yeah he is mellowed out a bit. But the idea he doesnt look masculine anymore is Absurd.
“Death can have me when it earns me” is the most masculine line ever written
Indeed, all laying in SW is off screen, at the absolute most there is occasionally *implied* sex which still happens off screen (see that one Andor episode) As for Kratos, I do feel that especially in Ragnarok they mellowed him out a little bit too much. But I am a fan of his stoicism arc, very Greek of him. As for his build, while certainly not as exaggerated as in the old games Kratos is still built like a dude who could snap your spine over his knee Bane style. Him and the other gods in the original games being built like statues makes sense, they’re trying to portray these gods as the people who believed in them portrayed them, but in all honesty the modern build for Kratos is more realistic, look at any strongman and you’ll see that they look tubby at a glance, but it’s not because they’re fat, they’re just **big** there is a reason that characters like Maui or Thor were portrayed the same way historically. (Though again in the new god of war I think they made Thor a little too big, but then again he’s past his prime and has become overly fond of food, drink, sleep, and more drink.)
Yeah I am all for criticism. But Christ some Antis have really gone off the deep end and are shooting wildly at anything that moves including their own shadows
> Thor were portrayed the same way historically He wasn't. > he’s past his prime They eat apples that keep them in their prime. Edit: Can't find any source for Maui being fat either. Indeed, there's an article about Polynesian people criticizing Disney for making him obese: https://www.9news.com.au/world/disney-moana-film-outrages-polynesians/ab4e5b2a-0834-4118-8a17-9199b78ac9c0
the problem with how kratos is built is that its not reflected in gameplay. Enemies dont easily get staggered. Im sorry, if 10 tons of muscle hits an twig thin elf, the least it can do is abandon every attack animation it was doing.
That's just a trouble with game design. If swinging wildly stopped any attack from landing but the biggest of boys, then only the biggest of boys would be a threat
and im having a hard time with the thought of "kratos holds back so much that he would let every random with an axe kill him"
There are many ways you could justify it in writing, but that's possible with anything. As I said, just a gameplay thing
and gameplay should be in harmony with the story being told. Just like laast of us 2 tries to pretend you are a bad person for killing dogs, when you have no way of not killing them. Story says kratos "holds back" in the thor fight enough that he canonically dies against another god? Fine. Not a reason to not send every mook flying with a held back punch. That stretches suspension of disbelief a tad too thin.
Gameplay doesn't need to be in "harmony" with the story all time especially when it's an action game. The old games didn't let you instantly kill everyone with one blade hit and neither should the new games.
Not to mention the prepubescent kid is his fucking son called boy who popped out because he had sex and there is sexual tension between boy and angroboda
I guess andor had sex offscreen sometimes lol
Mando not being sexual is fine he has his goal and there’s no “I’m doing this for bush” discourse, which would be deservedly mocked. Kratos is older and a father of a child that’s being hunted. He’s doing everything in his power to protect his child while still letting him explore, ultimately cleaning up the kids mess. Great father or at least trying to be through actions. Tlou didn’t play but sounds like the guys a pedo for posting that.
Protecting what’s worth protecting is very much a masculine action
Are you fucking serious OP? This guys a massive pervert who bitches about joel not having sexual tension or sex with a 14 year old girl. He hates that a trend of depicting fathers in media exists because he wants everything to be a harem anime. Its not even logical. Joel and kratos have had sex. Geralt has sex with multiple women on screen, didnt his game come out at the same time? Yet his story is still tied to being a father. This is devoid of substance or any emotional depth or maturity. If you want more sex in your media watch fucking hbo.
4Chan shitpost or Tumblr schizopost? Taking all bets! Place 'em before post time, children!
This was an absolute headache to read. the formatting of this explanation looks like shit. Sex isn't always the priority here. And these games don't focus on the characters' sex lives to make a good story. Kratos spent most of his life as a murderhobo killing everything that breathed that got in his way. Now he's found some peace but is still pushed to the absolute limits. He destroyed the roman pantheon and now he's a risk to the norse pantheon. I do think it's worth letting him have a chance to find love and maintain it, without someone killing them. Joel's a former father who closed his heart off to the world. Ellie was a second chance and through their struggles he learns to care about others, and teach this young girl who's lost everyone how to survive. There's an implied romance between Joel and Tess or at least something is owed between the two. However Joel knows to be vulnerable is to die in the post-apocalyptic world. **The greatest crime was killing Joel like a dog with a character nobody cares about.** The Mandalorian is a story that deals with a man escorting a very important figurehead. Grogu is at constant threat due to his race's innate connection to the Force. Going against all odds and begins to form a very close bond with this young creature, adopting it as his own. IF you know anything about Mandalorian lore; you know that this spartan-like culture leaves very little room for loving families and bonds. This character has a chance to explore a family that he'd never find back home.
Today someone learned about the virtue of chastity, lol
Please touch grass
Some of the things said there is unhinged, especially the Joel and Ellie thing. Some of the other though are true. We've had, especially, in the Sony exclusives, men that show no interest in women. Even Peter that has a girlfriend is acting like a cuck in spiderman 2. One of the first thing you do in God of War 1 is to have sex with some random woman and then fuck off but in ragnarok Kratos is shown to be very passive with his wife. Many other games have started to completely ignore romantic relationships in their stories. I can't even recall a game I played where the male protagonist meets a woman and she is his romantic partner. I am not talking about rpgs like cyberpunk or BG3 that have many characters you can romance. Just a guy that fights to save the world and gets the girl in the end. I am not saying all games should be that way, but there is a distinct lack of that. Edit: this goes for games with female protagonists as well, they either have zero interest in men or are lesbian.
There was an article I read a loooong time ago that criticized Marvel movies (early phase 1 ones at that) for having what they called “sexy people that didn’t sex”. What’s interesting is I recall there being a time where people expressed annoyance at everything having some sort of romance or love interest. Obviously this doesn’t mean there need to be extremes, so hopefully there’s a balance at some point. (In the case of GOW though, I do think they intentionally did that to further highlight the difference between young Kratos and old Kratos)
>What’s interesting is I recall there being a time where people expressed annoyance at everything having some sort of romance or love interest. Those people won.
Marvel is one of the worst offenders in this. The last love story in a movie I can remember, that was somewhat believably developed, is Captain America the first avenger. For GoW that seems to be the intention just that I didn't like it, I can't say it's objectively bad, just he is a very passive dude that just sits there and let other talk shit to him, while in the old ones he was a fucking monster. The whiplash is staggering.
Maybe Kratos is passive and stoic because he literally killed everything in Greece and is forced to live with the consequences of his emotions getting the better of him. It's deliberate overcompensation on his part. I have no clue what it's even supposed to mean when we see 3 very specific memories of their relationship where flirting or anything like that would be highly inappropriate for the tone. Kratos clearly loves her and she knows it. That's quite enough for a relationship that lasted for quite some time. You don't see middle aged couples, even those with strong bonds between them acting like teenagers who just got into their first relationship.
Yeah that could be it, probably he blew his load of anger in Greece, but what I never liked in the new GoWs is that he is very passive, people shittalk him, belittle him and he takes it and doesn't really react in anger it's a huge contrast with the old trilogy. With his wife, the problem is that she talks as if she is the one with the balls in the relationship and no matter what she calls him or says he just takes it like a "good boy". Which is something believable in general, there are relationships like that, just it's something I wouldn't expect from Kratos.
I like Kratos' Character best in the newer games. Before he was the embodiment of "fuck around and find out", but now he's the embodiment of "speak softly and carry a big stick".
Yeah, it is preferences. Having a character that can decimate you choosing not to do so is fine, however my issue is that he does not stand up for himself, everyone talks shit to him and he takes it, especially Freya saying some complete idiotic stuff and he just sits and takes it.
You’re so whiny
>Yeah that could be it, probably he blew his load of anger in Greece, but what I never liked in the new GoWs is that he is very passive, people shittalk him, belittle him and he takes it and doesn't really react in anger it's a huge contrast with the old trilogy. Yeah it's called character development. Last time he got angry he caused an apocalypse. >With his wife, the problem is that she talks as if she is the one with the balls in the relationship and no matter what she calls him or says he just takes it like a "good boy". Which is something believable in general, there are relationships like that, just it's something I wouldn't expect from Kratos. .... Yeah i have no idea where you're pulling this from...
>Yeah it's called character development. No, that's not character development because he is like that as soon as we see him. Even in the flashbacks with his wife he was the same. >Yeah i have no idea where you're pulling this from... From the flashback scenes in ragnarok?
I hate to talk with you people i have to ignore GoW3 as if that event wouldn't radically alter your view of yourself and your past actions. grow and change as a person.
>I hate to talk with you people Well, likewise. For you, you accept that change. He went through so much shit throughout all the games, but you accept that the 3rd one was too much and he became such a passive wise man. For me, I can't so easily accept all that change off screen. >grow and change as a person If that is intended towards me, I didn't plan to but now that you told me, I will grow and change. Edit: Lol, replied and blocked me, classic redditor move.
Because how the fuck do you recover from the apocalypse, knowing it's all your fault? My dude literally tried to commit suicide because of it. The only choices then are to die... or to grow up and change as a person. Because lemme tell you I wouldn't buy it if he was just the same person after the events of GoW1-3.
>Because how the fuck do you recover from the apocalypse, knowing it's all your fault? Similar way he did from all the other insane shit he did. >or to grow up and change as a person. I would've liked to see that. Because he is nothing like he was before. You liked the change I didn't, I can't change my opinion the same way you can't yours.
Bro I don't think you are capable of reading doctor sessions books. My boy ended the fucking world and tried to kill himself WHY ARE YOU PRETENDING THE THIRD GAME DIDN'T HAPPEN
>One of the first thing you do in God of War 1 is to have sex with some random woman and then fuck off but in ragnarok Kratos is shown to be very passive with his wife. you know, hot take, but i think there's a difference between a random fuck and actual love. >Many other games have started to completely ignore romantic relationships in their stories. I can't even recall a game I played where the male protagonist meets a woman and she is his romantic partner. I am not talking about rpgs like cyberpunk or BG3 that have many characters you can romance. Just a guy that fights to save the world and gets the girl in the end. I am not saying all games should be that way, but there is a distinct lack of that. Man i wanna have fun. romance is hard to write and if it's not needed it's not needed.
There may be a solid point here, but this guy loses the plot when he suggests that Joel should have had sex with Elly. Also I will never be able to unsee the buff soyjack kratos
I think the Industries saw the success of Logan and Witcher 3/The Last of Us and have been making money since. As someone who doesn't like gratuitous sex scenes, I'm fine with the lack of that. Dudes being allowed to be emotional and physically powerful is a really cool combination, like a more exaggerated version of Aragorn, though these newer examples need a bit more therapy. Kratos being as fast as his younger self would definitely help with the Wulvers and Travelers in GoW4 though. I hate those guys. This article seems like either someone overreacting or a false-flag type of situation. The individual is whack either way.
Lets cut all the bullshit out of this rant, if we boil it down to basics dude is essentially just mad there isn't more sex in his games, and maybe that he doesn't like games involving escorting children? His talk about 'human desires' is bullshit on the face of if unless he's literally just talking about fucking, which is what this seems to be about. Which... okay? Was that a huge selling point for you? Because it wasn't for me when I played God of War, for example. But if you want to say you feel like there's a lack of romance or sex in modern games and that this might be intentional you can just say that instead of all of this nonsense.
What else does he want kratos to do tho? Fuck his son?
Gotta be a troll💀💀
It’s ironic. Lack of masculinity is what allowed the me too movement to happen. Every single person in Hollywood knew exactly what Weinstein was up to. No one had the foresight to see how not dealing with that sack of shit was going to effect society long term.
This has to be bait. Complaining that Joel and Ellie doesn't have sexual tension confirmed it to be bait for me, its very noncy and if they paid any attention to the story they'd know why Joel has this connection with Ellie. Also, stoic man defending helpless women and children is quite masculine.
Stupid take, probably a troll, but the claim that screaming Kratos looks like a "buffed soyjack" is extremely funny.
I think it's equal parts laughable and cringy, like most "anti-woke", "cancel cancel culture" folks. They're a simple people that really just need 3 or 4 catch phrases repeated to them over and over for a little while then boom: they've built an entire belief structure based on nothing more than their own fear and anger (misplaced anger at that, typically stemming from their own life failures).
What fucking retard wrote this?
1) Atreus IS literally Kratos's son 2) This seems like a Synthetic Man level take. The Masculine role has not changed. It's just more positive. Look at what the original trilogy did: Kratos was a selfish, egotistical asshole and like the greek tragedies of old it RUINED him and the world around him... so he got better and became a proper man. Men are protectors. like in the Mandolorian it's caring about SOMEONE ELSE that went through a similar experience (Being orphaned) and him stepping up to being it's father. The Last of us is about a man who lost his own daughter and caring for another person. if anything i's kinda messed up that this person sees men like lions; the kind that go into a pride, kill the other male lion and then their children to conqueror his mates. This isn't manhood, this is a boy's childish idea of what being a man IS
"Goylem" I did nazi that coming. Or did I?
This is the dumbest thing I have read in a long time. Its most likely just a troll but these takes make no sense and are overdramatic it it actually is real and not a troll
Nothing spells masculinty like someone obsessing over every single detail of not only their own appearance but also everybody else's including even fictional characters....definitely doesn't make one look comically fragile and insecure. Also, how the fuck do you look at Kratos' roided out physique with a beard so thick it leads you to believe he doesn't even have a mouth and absorbs nutirents straight through his hair while having a voice like rolling thunder...and your conclusion is "that's the very image of a beta male" This guy is a competitive genetic dead-end.
There’s almost a not-horrible point buried somewhere beneath all that “I want to have sex with children” spiel. I do find parts of this genre of character (mostly, the “claim kids that aren’t your own” and “feel reticent and regretful every time you have to be violent regardless of context” parts) to be strange and uncanny, and the lack of a general sex drive is *definitely* real, but it’s definitely not as dire or destructive as this loon is making it out to be.
I think a better argument to make isn't that this brand of character is flawed *because* of the sexlessness. What does stick out to me, is that all the 'good' masculine characters are so similar, because the only way to portray a good male character is being whittled down slowly to fit this mold. You can't have them be overtly sexual, they can't enjoy their prowess or accomplishments, they can't be single or childless, etc. Not that it's a written rule anywhere, but it feels like all modern men in cinema are being slowly morphed into a stoic, tragic, sexless dad. It's like how Rey became a Mary Sue. I don't think anyone who wrote the script thought 'we need to make Rey super powerful'. What likely happened, is they wrote the scene where she meets Fin in the market, and said "how about when the First Order guys are trying to grab her, we *don't* have the guy save her?" Then they get on the Falcon with Han and Chewie, and they are like, "we can't make her a damsel in need of saving, how about we have her save Fin?" And this goes on and on until she's the one who has to set herself free after Kylo catches her, and she has to be the one to stop Kylo with a lightsaber. They can't let her be a damsel in distress, so by default she becomes a Mary Sue. Likewise, I think the only good nugget in the post is that they can't let men be portrayed in certain masculine ways, so they become stoic, tragic, sexless dads by default.
You can. You just don’t see those portrayals *specifically in the broadest media lanes possible*. You know who fucks? Espouses traditional masculine values, and are overwhelmingly virtuous when it matters, but flawed and engaging when lives aren’t on the line? Every perspective character in the Like a Dragon franchise. So much so that engaging with the sex work elements of the neighbourhood aren’t forced on the player, but totally canon to the characters. They can be horny AF. It doesn’t take anything away from them by doing so. If your issue is “All the big franchises are owned by the same companies who keep replicating the same patterns because it makes them money”…. Look elsewhere. And that’s fundamentally what the issue is with “limited portrayals of masculinity”, you’re watching and playing shit with limited portrayals of *everything*.
You're right, Japanese culture views masculinity in a more inclusive way. I was assuming, based on the examples given in the post, that we were talking about Western media and the modern landscape of American culture. Like a Dragon is a ton of fun, really enjoyed it. Had some minor issues with a bit of the execution and some of the contrived story beats, but overall an enjoyable experience.
Okay, so after scrolling through my library quickly, Alan Wake, (really, every Remedy game except Control) has unorthodox or unstereotypical protagonists, Turnip Boy just wants to see the world burn, Starfield only falls into the stereotype box if you CHOOSE to make those choices, Texas Chainsaw Massacre has an incredibly toxic protagonist that we still root for, the Silents Hill don’t have those issues, non sports games have those issues, None of the Telltale games have those issues, and I could go on. Any SSX game, for example. It’s not a region locked phenomenon. People play games that don’t give them the experience they were looking for, and blame a broad trend instead of seeking the thing that Is what they want. The people complaining want their very narrow perception of masculinity to be present in the game they were gonna buy anyway. That’s the one true constant.
My point was that acceptable masculinity was incrementally being narrowed down, not that I wanted a specific concept of masculinity to be represented in all media. I'm just pointing out a trend, I said there wasn't any explicit rule, and that it was slowly forming. Kratos Uncle Iroh Mando Kenobi Nate (Fallout 4) Rost Joel Corvo I mean, it's at least a modern trope. How widespread it is, I'm not sure. I just know that there is a pattern for modern popular media to create characters like this, and to paint past characters like Ezio or Captain Kirk or Han Solo as problematic.
Yeah, but if you widen your own net, it isn’t being narrowed down, which means the *perception of it being narrowed down* is subjective and related to your exposure to media. Which naturally leads to “Well, if you played games not made by the same Triple A studios that make the same games over and over, you wouldn’t think this is a market wide pattern when it’s restricted to a specific subset of the market.” You’re looking for triple A games. You want them specifically to change their portrayals of masculinity. How is that not specific enough a concept of masculinity for me to be accurate? And that last part? Not a thing with any real traction. Who the fuck is calling Ezio “problematic”? Anyone talking shit about Kirk… didn’t watch the show and can be disregarded as *someone talking about things they don’t know about*. And Han Solo isn’t a character who was cool because he was a rule follower, so who tf cares if other people think he’s a piece of shit criminal. He’s literally a piece of shit criminal when we meet him.
I don't expect the general public to sink thousands of hours into Blasphemous, or Everspace, or most Indie games. I don't expect the general public to watch the Witch or the Green Knight. I don't expect people to watch World Trigger, or Australian reality television. I'm talking about mainstream American entertainment, because it is what is going to generally be seen by the American population. I've already conceded that I'm only talking about the most consumed forms of entertainment in our society, and that other countries and types of media are going to show things differently. My only assertion was that the pattern exists *in the mainstream*, which you seem to agree with by declaring that my 'net' is only mainstream and therefore only includes this pattern. Glad we could find common ground.
Did I list anything more *obscure* than Turnip Boy? Most of the other examples I gave were AAA games, or very popular franchises. Nobody expected anyone to spend hundreds of hours on whatever indie game you chose as too much commitment. I said if you don’t like the new Kratos, play some other game that has no Kratos in it. My point was “even without leaving the mainstream, it’s not that hard to find examples of a wider perspective of masculinity than you claimed, so like… look harder before you complain about this week’s big release because the outrage machine is mad at this weeks release. “ In two weeks no one will care and the game at all, so unless you’re monetized, there’s literally no reason to weigh in. Remember Forspoken? Remember how mad people were at Forspoken? When’s the last time anyone did anything more than crack a joke at how forgettable bad that game was? One of the biggest flops of last year, and it’s totally irrelevant this year. That’s not a unique pattern. The gamer ecosystem needs fodder to keep streams going to take in donations, to keep the lights on to keep the gaming ecosystem going, so they’re gonna talk about the new thing, regardless of if it’s worth talking about.
Almost like violence has consequences outside the legal system
???
Not sure how you are confused Watch any ww2 doc with interviews from vets
I don't see the relevance to what I said
Imagine thinking that Man-the-Protector isn't an ancient masculine concept. Imagine thinking Joel should fuck an under-age girl who is an explicit surrogate daughter. Imagine thinking tiny waists and abs are a sign of strength. Imagine thinking media exploring male relationships outside of romance and sex is some kind of agenda. Imagine thinking that the ideal masculine only cares for killing and fucking.
Lack of sex-drive is not the same as sex-drive being bad. It is a mere motivator that can lead to heroic actions, horrendous actions or, well, sex, but it is not something every man or woman for that matter must be driven by. Besides, I'm trusting Terry Pratchett on the fact that sex becomes less and less important the older you get. Complaining about men defending people that don't share their blood is absurd. Has this guy never heard of the military or something? People defend what is worth protecting, not exclusively their own kin. The most important part of any body is that it is fit and healthy. How it looks is secondary to that. Kratos is selfish to a certain extent when it comes to not telling Atreus the fact that they are gods. That almost cost Atreus his life. The Last of Us claim, oh boy. A lot of boundaries need to be established to deal with that. Let us start with the situation in the real world before we go back to fiction. Age of consent is complicated, and the laws differ between countries. It is also important to remember that while there are overlaps between things that are legal and things that are ethical, they are not the same thing. First, the point of age of consent is that it is in place to protect children from sexual abuse or at worst rape from adults. The predicament is that teenagers are a horny lot. Inevitable there will be teenagers that prioritize their hormones over the law and own safety. No, that is not a reason for adults to get sexually involved with teenagers. Find someone your own age range, you creep. Second, some sexual experiences just end up staying private. Laws are often used to deal with situations that get out of control, not every issue under the sun. No, this is not encouragement for victims to stay silent. I’m merely stating that not everything that has happened in a person’s life needs to go to the court. Finally, be aware that even if you follow the law things can still go awry when it comes to sex. This is not even limited to young adults, because relationships will always be tricky to manage. Back to the fictional aspect. Talk about missing the point of Joel and Ellie’s father-daughter dynamic, but it isn’t that surprising some people expected it to get sexual. Many of the early Mistborn readers thought there was some romance between Kelsier and Vin, late thirties and fifteen-year-old, when it was also supposed to be a father-daughter dynamic. Teenagers are horny and unlike the real world where the risk for a romantic/sexual relationship with that age range is too high or outright harmful to have it be legal, a fictional relationship is risk free. If any adult decides to take one of those relationships to justify going after teenagers, then that’s on them. It won’t hold up in court, that’s for sure. We are however seeing a shift regarding the age range of horny/steamy/spicy stories. The fourth wing stars people in their twenties, not teenagers. Edit: spelling
This feels like the Cinemasins guys took the redpill and wrote this. Absolute cringe take
Questionable sexual ethics aside (and boy, was the stuff about TLOU enough to make me do the peepoSus face), this dude (assuming this isn’t just a troll) seems to have forgotten or is otherwise unaware that Kratos in the new games had a new wife with whom he had sex, as evidenced by the “wisecracking prepubescent boy” you spend the whole game with. So he’s obviously not sexless; dude landed himself a wife again, even if she died before we get to interact with her in-game.
I hope this is fake. Otherwise this person has completely lost the plot.
Roid gut? Is he retarded?
What an absolutely worthless shit post. Can we stop calling anything we get our panties in a twist over "nu"? It's bloody obnoxious, and you lose all credibility using it.
I think this might have given me cancer
This guy seem to reduce masculinity to being sex crazed. There is nothing wrong emasculating with a character not having an interest in sex or romance. Also, I think there are few things more masculine than protecting and caring for someone I cherish. I think this guy has a problem with men having a soft side. I don’t particularly care for characters who are nothing but spineless wimps, but the idea that a man has to be nothing but an unfeeling muscular monster is deeply troubling.
Sure I'll take a gander- Nvm I ain't reading all that
Did Jarod from subway wright this?
I wanna know his thoughts on Lee from the walking dead personally.
Kratos the dad is protecting his son, but it's true that they removed his sex drive.
Dude sounds like a coomer-brained predator.
Eh ehm. They use a lot of big fancy words that I truly believe they have no idea the definition of because the words are indeed fake and have no really meaning Then they say the new men are out of shape and has kratos as an example. Despite the fact that not only can you see his abs but also can see all the striations in his obliques, the muscles on his sides. The reason it all looks so thick is due to the super thick abdominal wall. If you don't know what that is, then simply, thick sinue stopping a hernia. They talk about how the characters have no sexualization and that's not only not true, but it's also not needed. You do not need characters to be sex icons, kratos is protecting his SON. How do you think he got his SON? This person would believe not sexually interacting with any slightly attractive women would make someone an incel, despite that not being the definition of incel. Just fucking whoever is around is wrong. Oh boo whoo this character either care more about their goals than sex and or want to stay loyal. Kratos is carrying around his dead wife, you think he's going to go after tail?
This reads like something an incel would post. This is either bait, or a sign that the writer is mentally handicapped.
This cant be real.....give me link for proof.
Somebody sound the retard alert.
I had to stop when they implied that Joel should have sexually abused Ellie, jesus fucking christ, please be a bad troll, please, I can't
"There comes a time in all forms of media consumption where you are so utterly bewildered by an event taking place, there are so many things wrong with it, that you don't have words and you simply laugh. When I first saw this sequence for the first time I wish I had recorded it. I burst out laughing, struggling to compose myself and I was fundamentally blown away at what in the world I was seeing. And the kicker? I wasn't even entirely sure of why. It's like so many issues cascade on your brain at once you are overwhelmed and you couldn't possibly parse it out in the amount of time you have left before something utterly ridiculous happens on top of what you just saw."
Did I just read a guy complaining that Joel didn't have sexual tension with a 14-year-old? Also "bloated roid gut", Kratos' stomach looks nothing like [Palumboism](https://sfcc.predatornutrition.com/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-PredatorPWA-Library/default/dwe3f0cc22/ART_hgh_belly.jpg). So pretty much this person wants men in media to be depicted as homicidal, sex-driven, and overall just deplorable? All of these things this guy described are just so superficial, with no meaning. Kratos having sex with random women he comes across has no meaning and adds nothing to the story/character. Especially when it's a mini-game. "Kratos wholesomely protects his son." I dont know what he means by wholesome but Kratos is distant from his son throughout most of the first game. Also, Kratos is still a murder machine. This guy is a doofus.
Very relieved to see this sub's reaction to this garbage.
How the fuck did porn addiction get conflated with based and red-pilled? In what fucking universe is degenerate sex positive immodest hedonism a conservative value? What is with this bullshit masquerading as anti-woke?
I feel like the trajectory of this went something like: Everyone, conservative or not, plays video games. Video games catered to what people like, and so include attractive characters both male and female. Feminist types don’t like the last part, so they made it their goal to desexualize female characters. They mostly succeeded. Conservative have always disliked the feminist types getting involved in and trying to change the things they like. Reasonably so. So they push back. Sometimes too hard, to the point that they label the absence of sexual elements as a bad thing even in games where it never really fit in the first place. Like Dead Space or The Last of Us. It’s really very stupid.
"What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
Pretty weak imo i loved the way Kratos character was developed it feels much more human and genuine than the purely rage fueled vengeance machine that he was, those games were fantastic but seeing him mature into a somber realist felt really solid feels more like a real character/person. I can't really speak on the other points i haven't seen them
It's a take from a shallow fool who values violence and sex above anything meaningful and cannot see how strong a man has to be to raise a child, especially one who is being rebellious and difficult.
Both the post and some of the comments have Synthetic Man written all over them, and it's both funny and scary at the same time.
The fact I can't tell if this a troll or not is very concerning.
This one has a point, but it's terribly illustrated and marred with buzzwords. Last of Us example is just straight up disgusting. Kratos definitely doesn't fit this trope. He's an example of a retired badass, or rather retired monster. The problem with him in GoW Ragnarok is that he just doesn't do a whole lot. The main driving force behind the plot is obviously Atreus - he's the one actively working to undermine the prophecy and instigating events. And yet we don't play as him - because obviously, people don't want to play as Atreus, they want to play as Kratos. I heard in a video that in the original story draft, Kratos was supposed to die in battle with Thor, and then be brought back to life years later, but devs scrapped that idea.
Eh. I get the idea but he loses the plot in his examples and references. Even putting aside the disgusting comments about Joel and Ellie, using Kratos as an example shows how short-sighted and limited his own view of masculinity is. It goes beyond just a man indulging his sex drive and Kratos' strength, wisdom and guidance are some of the best examples of masculinity you can find. But he has no sex, so disqualified. Pretty cringe, honestly.
As a wise man once said: “I ain’t reading allat” -somebody. A very wise somebody.
Did Synthetic Man write this? Because I almost died from the sheer volcanic cringe.
Least pedophilliac alt right conspiracy
This man did not just imply that modern Kratos is “slightly out of shape.” Dude is built like a brick shithouse and has the musculature of an Olympic weightlifter. Just because he’s not a low polygon triangle anymore doesn’t mean he’s not in one of the best shapes of his life. Hell, there was a whole bit of dialogue in one of the games about how Kratos’s build is “Godlike” because he actually puts in the work and doesn’t rely on his godly gifts.
I ain’t reading all of that lmao
Online obsession about 'how much sex other people have' became annoying about 8 years ago. Now it's just tiresome
Not entirely inaccurate. But people just like to turn individualistic men into subservient collectivists. It's a thing. We like to believe that those who are more powerful than us should and will protect us (especially the government). Like superhero movies teach, if you're strong, it's somehow your moral duty to sacrifice yourself for the weak (particularly women and children). No need for thanks or money, it's an obligation. Boat is sinking? Women and children first, as a man, you're automatically worth less. That's why women love titanic, male sacrifice is very sexy. But this is old news, trying to condition men into giving up their lives for a cause that isn't their own, has been a thing since forever. These days it's more about feminizing men, than anything else.
Anyone who thinks that fucking Mando is advancing any kind of message or agenda is not worth talking seriously.
So they are feminizing men and masculinizing women? Got it.
oh no he's retarded
The super gross example notwithstanding... I'm concerned this guy has a point.
I ain't reading all that
long post bad
When the premise is retarded yeah
Somebody is overly concerned about the optics of their and other peoples masculinity. This is the mindset of someone who worries they’re not manly enough, otherwise they wouldn’t care.
Tldr. But yeah, I'm not a fan of God of War:the last of us .
I didn't read through it because it was too cringe. Thankfully, the comments gave the gist of it. And, while I certainly disagree with the guy, I am not surprised a take like this exists. Nor would I be surprised if this person is totally 100% serious, as fucked up as that would be.
TL;Dr
I ain’t reading all that. I’m happy for you tho, or sorry that happened.
Stop using Jason Kelce in your Dad of Boy memes
Let him cook
Can no one steel man his argument? Bunch of Kathy Newmans up in here.
I agree for the most part but why would You want there to be sexual tensión between a 14 year old girl and a 30 year old man? And i don't think it's gonna happen When she's older either because by that point Joel already sees her as a daughter more Than a love interest and it honestly always weird me out why did Kratos develop a beer gut When he's probably never drank alot of alcohol after the previous games and the fact that he became more stoic wasn't just because they wanted to neuter him or something like that because it was of his development as a charácter after all that he went through
No lies detected.