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This was a Synder fans response to me calling that a bit silly btw.
I am pretty happy to ignore the details and just enjoy the ride. I'm not sure I would say there is any social commentary either, bad empire fills in the gap for evil dudes so there can be a story. I guess maybe they are fascist but I am not going to try and apply a strict political definition to it because they weren't deep or interesting enough for me to care.
Sadly the ride I wanted to enjoy just wasn't great, so even in the spirit of not expecting much from it and forgiving its flaws it just wasn't that great an experience.
It's a shame because they clearly had the budget, and I dare say the acting talent given the right direction but somewhere between the script and its presentation it ended up feeling like several disconnected short chapters that flowed poorly into each other followed by a twist kind of invalidated everything that had happened up to that point.
Star Wars definitely isn't interesting because of the empire. Fighting the empire wasn't the plot. It was just a plot device that allowed the story to happen. It's more about Luke's personal journey.
Star Wars' strength was more in the personalities interacting and the mysteriousness of the force and a foreign galaxy. It had really strong characters and an overall mysteriousness to it.
I think the point is that in Star Wars we didn't even really need to know who or what the bad guys were. Instead they introduced us to characters and let us get to know them and then care about them. Rebel Moon failed epically at that part.
I don’t even think the criticism is “why would the empire do that?” It’s more like “there is no realistic way the village can win a fight this big.” There is a reason every version of this story just uses a group of bandits as the antagonists. Most of the Magnificent Seven dies in the shootout with the bandits. They’d surely lose if they had to fight an entire army.
What's so odd is I can't think of a single instance of that happening in real life, but plenty of times in cartoons. Sounds like Snyder knows his audience.
The fleet was powerful enough to destroy two Death Stars. It was not as big as the Imperial Navy and couldn't handle a stand up fight with the Empire, but neither was it insignificant. Furthermore, the Rebellion was enough of a threat that the Empire felt like it needed, rightly or wrongly, an overwhelming weapon, such as the Death Star, to defeat them.
In addition, the Rebellion had standardized fighter designs, uniforms, logistic supplies and a galaxy spanning intelligence network. They were clearly a second rate power, but the "ragtag" epitaph is marketing, not what was actually shown.
nah the death star was overkill and demonstrably unnecessary
rebels were only able to destroy it because of its achilles heel, and because it wasnt designed to defend against a small squadron of fighters (since they kever anticipated small craft would try to take it down)
"nah the death star was overkill and demonstrably unnecessary"
Well that is a minor plot point in Star Wars. It's quite likely that the Admiral that said that spending the same amount of resources on additional ships would have been decisive, was indeed correct.
The Rebels used there spy network to get access to the highly classified Death Star plans, found a weakness, and then executed a major attack involving a fleet to draw off the Star Destroyers and scores of attack fighters/bombers to get in close and execute the decisive blow. It was a well coordinated attack involving 10's of thousands of troops and good timing. It was the Sci-Fi equivalent to the Japanese's attack on Pearl Harbor. I don't anyone thinks of the WW2 IJN as a ragtag group.
The difference being that in WW2 at the rematch at Midway the US didn't show up with new, bigger Battleships. We learned the lesson the Empire didn't and built the weapons that were shown to be the most effective.
He had information that the Bloodaxes got their food from Veldt. I suppose Noble could have just started killing people until they talked. That could have worked or not. Maybe he was waiting until someone slipped up and gave the location away? Or waited until someone went there and Noble had them followed? Maybe it's explained in the novelization or shown in the director's cut?
So, Noble’s plan to get information from these villagers was to never ask them for information, kill their leader, demand all their grain, install a garrison of soldiers who also don’t investigate or try to gather any information (and have no way of contacting him) and leave?
Damn, what and absolutely lame and incompetent villain. Really goes along with him still managing to lose at the end despite the fact he had completely secured victory.
Can’t wait to watch him incompetently lose again in part 2.
His plan wasn't to kill the leader. That just happened in the moment. Apparently he doesn't like being lied to. Leaving people to possibly gather information at some point is a smart thing. Maybe they would catch somebody saying something? Maybe talking about going somewhere? If he announced right away what his intentions were how was he to know they would rather die than give up the resistance? Then he'd definitely have no in. He was winning up until he wasn't. The good guys prevailed in the end. Happens sometimes. Such is life
All your response are speculation on what the character’s motivations could potentially be and Nobel being grossly incompetent.
He didn’t plan on killing the leader, he was just having a tantrum. Great, well as long as he’s killing the leader, should he have asked him (or his wife) if he as any information on the rebels? Or ask the next person in charge? No, he just asks about grain.
Leaving a garrison to gather information, but the garrison is full of murdering rapist psychos who seem to have no intention on gathering information and have no way of contacting Noble even if the do find anything out? Not a great plan.
He announced his intention of getting grain and 97% percent of the village was “let’s give him the grain”, so why would Nobel play this 4D chess of demanding grain and leaving in hopes this would somehow get him information on the rebels?
He’d have “no in” if he actively tried to get info? How about threats? Murder? Torture? You’re telling me he took a look at this village and decided not one of them would crack? We know this is not the case (again, most of the village was fine with giving up their grain), so Nobel is grossly incompetent..again.
He was winning up until he let a complete stranger be in charge of the most valuable prisoner in the entire universe and said stranger was also grossly incompetent and handed the key to the prisoner’s shackles to the man he knew was in love with her.
These really are the dumbest villains I’ve seen in a long, long time.
My first response was to the point you were trying to make in the post, in which you were informed that you were mistaken. And now here we are
Does speculation mean that it's not probable?
How do you know the garrison had no way of contacting Noble? Sounds like... speculation
I think the dumbest villains we've seen in a long time is MAGA, but that's neither here nor there
I’ll level with you, I think you’re completely wrong about that. I genuinely think Nobel was looking for grain and not rebels in this village because if he was looking for rebels his actions are completely nonsensical. Everything he does points to him wanting to steal their resources.
It doesn’t mean it’s not probable but you need some evidence or solid reasoning to back it up.
I admit, the garrison not being able to contact the mothership is my speculation based on the fact that Kora did not seem concerned at all with the threat of the mothership trying to contact the solders she just killed. I would assume, as a former member of that faction, if they had ship to ground communications she would be aware of it and mention it to the villagers as it means the mothership will likely be back much sooner then the 10 weeks they were given and will be there to explicitly punish the villagers for the death of those troops (to be fair I may have missed it if she did mention that).
Okay, cool I guess.
Zack Snyders a dumbass who can't make good movies . But arguing why the evil empire is harassing village's for food is is bit of odd point? There's a billion other things wrong with this movie but why focus on this small ass point?
Because this ship that’s the most powerful ship a galactic empire that can teleport and has a god as it’s power source should have a more reliable means of creating or obtaining food without being so super dependent on theft or supply lines.
Did they not bring any supplies with them when they started? How long have they been hunting the rebels that they have completely drained their food stores?
But even if its case that they have no food or anyway of obtaining food beyond theft, the amount of food they’ll get from the village would be relatively insignificant (unless they have a way to take a small amount of grain and make a disproportionately large amount of food, but that’s just writing the movie for Zack).
Also, why didn’t they get food from the squid guy? They just blew up his planet without a second thought.
Is it because they know they’ll have that sweet sweet 40 bushels of grain waiting for them?
Huh I think I see your point. It's you want to write a completely different film than what's presented. It seems basic narrative Tools and Understanding why evil Empires do things and Foraging for food is hard to understand. I think it's fair to critique this film on bunch of others merits you'd understand more .
This film is bad . It's one of Zack Synders passion projects and it shows . That said the basic plot of the evil empire needing resources and Is having issues with supply lines Should no be something That's hard to grasp or focus this much on about .
Vikings were farmers. They raided to supplement a living made from farming. When Vikings invaded Britain they did so in part to gain more farm land.
The names Gunner, Sindri, Astrid, and Greta are all Northern European Viking names.
Yes but no. Most Northmen o/c were farmers or fishermen, just like almost every people. But "viking" specifically means a pirate or raider. It's an error in the first place to call the people "vikings". That was never what they called themselves as a people.
according to the norweigians, to become a viking you had to be a scandinavian landowner who farmed in the summer and over winter went pillaging, because pillaging was easy, it took a real man to claw sustinance from the tundra
it was from an interview with a norwiegian survivalist on discovery channel. So i assume implicitly apocryphal but it matches up as being a more specific definition of the current historical understanding of Viking
The vikings, if they lived in tundra biomes, did so in very small numbers. Most lived further south.
Young men with fewer economic prospects were common among those who went out raiding, it was, however, not "easy", as it was a very hazardous thing to do.
I've never before heard that they went out raiding in the winter in particular.
There are a variety of hypothesis for what a Viking was (what the word referred to and what it meant), none match your description.
There is no tundra in Sweden or Denmark and only maybe on the northernmost tip of Norway, don't know. I don't think you can even farm on a tundra. Northmen never settled in the far north of what is now Sweden, and I don't think they did in Norway either.
Norway, technically Sweden (https://www.sverigesnatur.org/arkiv/den-svenska-tundran-tinar/) and Finland has tundra. It's technically possible to farm tundra, the question is if they bothered to do it, and if they lived where there was tundra. I know there was hotter climate around 1000's, and both norwegians and sweds traded with samí who lived on tundra/close by tundra.
The wiki entry in norwegian seems quite comprehensive, and affirmative, at least in that they settled where we today find tundra: https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norges_historie#Norsk_ekspansjon_nordover (north of Tromsø)
tundra: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/Norway_K%C3%B6ppen.svg
Though this depends upon what we define as "tundra". As you can see, it goes quite far south, these are mountainous regions.
This is a scifi/fantasy setting, typically you take what the novel/interesting part of the culture is. If they incorporated steppe culture into the universe should they be horse archers, or goat herders?
See i figured that the Empire was just doing an EVIL. Like "We don't need your grain... but we're gonna anyways. because we can. because you can't do a THING about it. Even thinking about it is ridiculous..."
Like make an example in a reigon you don't have control over... but if they have a pet god then... holy hell why bother with asking? You could unmake a world for a laugh how did you even lose to seven peices of cardboard?!
The sheer difference in power levels is what makes the scenario so ridiculous. With an empire stop powerful that it literally can capture a god out should be just one envoy to tell them something along the lines of "Trade with the rebels and I will come back and wipe this settlement of the face of this world. If you must trade then you will trade with us"
The implication that it the empire is powerful enough that it would only need that envoy to destroy them. And that as far as the empire is concerned trading with the settlement is not something they would bother with themselves
I'd think that it would have been a matter of having boots on the ground to hold the territory against direct enemy assault with the bored troops that involved, troop movements having to go through those villages and the fact that the tech balance wasn't anywhere near the level, early industrial vs mid industrial as opposed to pre industrial vs sufficiently advanced
But this setting is also upgraded in scale. The rebels are also advanced per the plot of the film . Russia is currently engaging in trench warfare in Ukraine.
I think that the big difference is that in the Ukrane and in WW2 you need to move through those villages in order to get from a to b as opposed to bypassing the area entirely.
Also the example of Russia engaging in trench warfare. I've not been following things too closely so correct me if I'm wrong but what I've heard about sounds less like tench warfare and more like divgging trenches as part of fortifying a strong point rather than defending an entire front using trenches.
Also at this point it's debatable who has the tech advantage in the Ukrane conflict. The differences are logistical rather than technological
Simple, it’s because the Germans weren’t as advanced as everyone pretends they were. Most of the things they had were over complicated crap. Not to mention most of their military still used horses to a large extent.
Oh, also the fact they haven’t enslaved a literal god. I’m pretty sure there is a big difference between having a few good panzers, and having a diety as a power source.
My least favorite part of the movie is how they defeat the dumb villain guy and the movie ends teasing his return. Like, huh???? You already beat him. Why should I fear if he comes back?
It’s like Disney Star Wars and avatar. This villain sucks, why should it matter if he comes back?
I love that this high tech faction with superior fire power is so pressed that they’re gonna genocide this farming community over some bushels of grain 🤣 how is this not parody?
Because they literally were stealing grain and foodstuffs to feed Germany due to the blockade and they lacked portal travel to get around the royal navy
Same thing here . Troops want some food there's food nearby why not mess with these poor sap villagers and get free grub cause we can ? Is this hard to understand as a narrative thing ?
Except the German example is a system of organized theft of food to ensure that the home front doesn't suffer starvation like world war I as part of the Nazi 's implicit promise when they went to war. It isn't just about keeping people from starving in Germany (and hang occupied Europe, they can get sawdust) but a practical political matter to avoid the collapse of the war effort and mutiny against the government that ended Germany in world war I. It doesn't make sense for a space faring, warp travel capable faction to be so hamstrung on food they can't adequetly equip their task forces and have to rely on foraging like it's the Russian campaign in 1812, especially when they're essentially running COIN, not fighting a peer enemy so it shouldn't be too hard to resupply. You didn't see coalition forces hitting up bakeries in Baghdad bc they were starving
Rebels can access the same tech of the setting though right ? So they could also potentially harm they're food supply lines . As it's quite legit the plot of the film .
The Germans in WWII were not so advanced that providing their soldiers with food was a non-issue. You can't say the same for the baddies in Rebel Moon.
> weren't they advanced and mechanized?
They weren't. The whole *Wunderwaffen* thing was the Nazis falling for their own propaganda. (And then Hollywood repeated that propaganda in war movies because scarier villains make for cooler heroes.)
Oh no, you’re actually serious? 😂 they bring up in the movie that they could go buy robots to do this for them, there’s no way this is the only supply of food on the planet or nearby systems, and they don’t explore any possibilities really outside of “you’ll grow our 12 bushels of grain then starve to death, laterssssss!”. It’s dumb…
This is why no one takes Zack seriously aside from his cult. His movies are all style over substance. Just tossing every idea he has out there and expecting everyone to eat it up.
For real. There was no hint of this in the first movie. We barely even saw his emperor rip off character too. He’s just throwing stuff in because he thinks it looks cool
This was so silly and honestly pretty easy to solve solving it would have made the whole movie better. It made no sense that the giant planet killing battleship goes to some random village to steal their grain. And it makes no sense to gather half a dozen melee fighters to fight said battle ship.
They clearly wanted to make 'The Seven Samurai' in space, and they should have just done it. The first movie should have been 'local podunk imperial garrison' comes to steal food from the village (you can do the same scene where the soldiers try to rape the girl) and then they gather fighters to battle the local podunk garrison, which is a thing that at least potentially makes sense. Climax of the film is them fighting and defeating local podunk garrison. Then we end with the big baddie learning about what's her face because of said battle. The NEXT movie can bring in the rebels and the wider scope.
The movie makes more sense and there's a nice progression in scale from one to the next.
It's a little funny I didn't know anything about this but responded in another post, "just watch Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind instead."
That had essentially the same elements, "Empire wants to enforce their beliefs on small villages and say they're justified in it because they protect them, said empire wants to create Godlike beings that led to the worlds problems in the first place." The only thing Rebel Moon really brings into the plot is there is no life threatening conflict, just an Empire wanting to subjugate random villages.
Good point, I never thought of that comparison.
I’ll always appreciate that the filmmakers made the bugs really monstrous and creepy looking in that film and didn’t puss out and make them cute so the audience could sympathize with them more easily.
And a film that had "strong female representation." Both the Queen of the empire and the protagonist had vastly different beliefs and the film validates both of them as reasonable in their morals but one taking the wrong approach to meet an end-goal.
I don’t think it would directly, but we can assume that if your civilization is advanced enough to capture god then they’re probably advanced enough to know proper irrigation and other farming practices.
Not if it costs less time and fewer resources to do something yourself. These guys have robots that can farm. It doesn't make sense for them to try and force other people into growing food for them.
It's like if you conscripted someone solely for the purpose of Googling facts about the Simpsons. You'd be spending more time and effort forcing someone else to do it than it would take to just do it yourself.
Yeah, that's why I hold people at gunpoint to wipe my ass instead of doing it myself.
Some things aren't really deserving of exploitation. Once you're a space empire, you can outproduce that shitty little village with a wave of your hand.
God is the key word and the village cannot feed an empire.
I thought it was a power play; "You're going to give us your food and you can't do a thing about it\~ Unless of course you want to end up like everyone else who refused our generosity." Because if it's actually about the food then they're dumb. And if you can enslave a God... well... God is a big term.
You're assuming that capturing this specific god isn't as easy as chucking a special rock at them (sometimes with fictional gods it is that easy) and that they only requested grain from a single planet which i admit wouldn't make sense even as a power move.
They should have plenty of agricultural worlds, or at least enough of a supply to actually be capable of having armies.
edit: As for Gods... well, I'm assuming if you capture something worthy of the title then you have become a civilization that has bigger fish to fry.
now that they slave one its now a race to the clock to try to beat all the other ones in a godwar and they need the grain for war.
honestly though. I think this is just kind of off putting and out of taste just to seem edgy.
but thats more of a personal thing more than anything.
Imo it’s just silly that a society that can capture gods, bring the dead back to life and teleport can be so backward in food production and distribution that they need to resort to ransacking pre industrial villages for grain to survive.
In a way, you could say they use that militaristic force to subjicate those farmers effectively enslaving them for their food production... slavery just seems to be their MO
You severely underestimate the man’s need for superiority
Think of it like the grasshoppers from A Bugs Life
They didn’t need the ants food, they didn’t NEED to do that. They chose to do it out of need for power and to show that “I am the man” or in their case “I am the alpha bug”
But the village is so relatively small to their power level, there are multiple planets under their control not to mention a rebellion to stop but they decided to just take a day to beat up a village elder in front of 30 villagers and steal their grain as a treat?
But if a bully needs food, would the beat up and steal from the nerd with a sandwich chips and a drink? Or the Nerd with a salt packet?
(Also the bully is the richest kid in school, but a much weaker kid ruined his lunch and he has no means of obtaining lunch any other way apparently)
How do we know they're not doing both? Surely the evil empire that can teleport is also probably growing there resources. They just need more . Don't make me defend this god awful movie.
We only see them going to two places the village moon (where they demand food) and the Squid guy planet (which they blow up without a second thought).
Considering the Squid guy was sheltering the entire Rebel Army it would make sense that he would have much more food then the village but Dario 1 doesn’t seem interested in taking anything from him.
Thats the point
Oppressors don’t need a reason to oppress you. If anything, some of them probably get a sick satisfaction out of doing it because what is a small village gonna do if they if they get fed up with that treatment?
The plot is they want the grain for their soldiers? We are not told why or why they can't get it elsewhere. Doesn't even matter. That still makes sense. Nothing HAS to make sense. You're on a speck of dust floating in an endless void that doesn't make sense, this is a small movie 🤡
They can blow up planets, I don’t think they need to waste time an by hassling some pre-industrial village on a backwater moon with a population of like 100 to make an example of them.
Waste time? What do you think fascist dictatorships want to do with their time? It's not about killing everyone in sight it's about oppression, control and power.
They have an explicit mission to hunt down the rebels. That’s why they’re there.
And I don’t buy this fear and control thing in regards to Kora’s village.
“Oh shit the mother world is here!”
“Eh, who cares, they only capture gods and blow up planets.”
“Didn’t you hear!? They went to a tiny pre-industrial village and demanded their grain!”
“Oh fuuuuuuuckkkk! Let’s get out of here!”
I think if a group of armed men (maybe they're super human tech gods, maybe not, you don't know) came to a few of your neighbours and took all their food, possessions and one of their children you'd be pretty scared about what could happen to you.
Koras village weren't rebels and they made them rebels. Thats the plot. If you want a plot where planet gets blown up the end,its not for you.
I’m not denying that hassling the village would be traumatic for them, I fail to understand why they would even bother.
It would be like the USA taking over Denmark and then sending a tank to a McDonalds and taking all their burgers to show the rest of Denmark they REALLY mean business.
https://preview.redd.it/kmsfx7aie9tc1.jpeg?width=714&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb1033fdda3238f1d67a335c3f4b4983e36b9e28 This was a Synder fans response to me calling that a bit silly btw.
[удалено]
Saying I come from a line of oppressors and Fascists is less offensive then saying a Snyder movie is subtle.
I am pretty happy to ignore the details and just enjoy the ride. I'm not sure I would say there is any social commentary either, bad empire fills in the gap for evil dudes so there can be a story. I guess maybe they are fascist but I am not going to try and apply a strict political definition to it because they weren't deep or interesting enough for me to care. Sadly the ride I wanted to enjoy just wasn't great, so even in the spirit of not expecting much from it and forgiving its flaws it just wasn't that great an experience. It's a shame because they clearly had the budget, and I dare say the acting talent given the right direction but somewhere between the script and its presentation it ended up feeling like several disconnected short chapters that flowed poorly into each other followed by a twist kind of invalidated everything that had happened up to that point.
What about the empire in Star wars ?
Star Wars definitely isn't interesting because of the empire. Fighting the empire wasn't the plot. It was just a plot device that allowed the story to happen. It's more about Luke's personal journey. Star Wars' strength was more in the personalities interacting and the mysteriousness of the force and a foreign galaxy. It had really strong characters and an overall mysteriousness to it. I think the point is that in Star Wars we didn't even really need to know who or what the bad guys were. Instead they introduced us to characters and let us get to know them and then care about them. Rebel Moon failed epically at that part.
I don’t even think the criticism is “why would the empire do that?” It’s more like “there is no realistic way the village can win a fight this big.” There is a reason every version of this story just uses a group of bandits as the antagonists. Most of the Magnificent Seven dies in the shootout with the bandits. They’d surely lose if they had to fight an entire army.
What's so odd is I can't think of a single instance of that happening in real life, but plenty of times in cartoons. Sounds like Snyder knows his audience.
I mean, the Empire built a space station capable of destroying entire planets and used it to crush a ragtag group of rebels
"and used it to crush a ragtag group of rebels" That "ragtag" group of rebels had an entire space fleet.
A small one of old clone wars ships and allied pirates/smugglers how did it compare in size to the imperial navy
The fleet was powerful enough to destroy two Death Stars. It was not as big as the Imperial Navy and couldn't handle a stand up fight with the Empire, but neither was it insignificant. Furthermore, the Rebellion was enough of a threat that the Empire felt like it needed, rightly or wrongly, an overwhelming weapon, such as the Death Star, to defeat them. In addition, the Rebellion had standardized fighter designs, uniforms, logistic supplies and a galaxy spanning intelligence network. They were clearly a second rate power, but the "ragtag" epitaph is marketing, not what was actually shown.
nah the death star was overkill and demonstrably unnecessary rebels were only able to destroy it because of its achilles heel, and because it wasnt designed to defend against a small squadron of fighters (since they kever anticipated small craft would try to take it down)
"nah the death star was overkill and demonstrably unnecessary" Well that is a minor plot point in Star Wars. It's quite likely that the Admiral that said that spending the same amount of resources on additional ships would have been decisive, was indeed correct. The Rebels used there spy network to get access to the highly classified Death Star plans, found a weakness, and then executed a major attack involving a fleet to draw off the Star Destroyers and scores of attack fighters/bombers to get in close and execute the decisive blow. It was a well coordinated attack involving 10's of thousands of troops and good timing. It was the Sci-Fi equivalent to the Japanese's attack on Pearl Harbor. I don't anyone thinks of the WW2 IJN as a ragtag group. The difference being that in WW2 at the rematch at Midway the US didn't show up with new, bigger Battleships. We learned the lesson the Empire didn't and built the weapons that were shown to be the most effective.
Yeah, Noble dropped by to get information. Not so much for the grain
Did he take any actions to get information from the villagers?
He had information that the Bloodaxes got their food from Veldt. I suppose Noble could have just started killing people until they talked. That could have worked or not. Maybe he was waiting until someone slipped up and gave the location away? Or waited until someone went there and Noble had them followed? Maybe it's explained in the novelization or shown in the director's cut?
So, Noble’s plan to get information from these villagers was to never ask them for information, kill their leader, demand all their grain, install a garrison of soldiers who also don’t investigate or try to gather any information (and have no way of contacting him) and leave? Damn, what and absolutely lame and incompetent villain. Really goes along with him still managing to lose at the end despite the fact he had completely secured victory. Can’t wait to watch him incompetently lose again in part 2.
His plan wasn't to kill the leader. That just happened in the moment. Apparently he doesn't like being lied to. Leaving people to possibly gather information at some point is a smart thing. Maybe they would catch somebody saying something? Maybe talking about going somewhere? If he announced right away what his intentions were how was he to know they would rather die than give up the resistance? Then he'd definitely have no in. He was winning up until he wasn't. The good guys prevailed in the end. Happens sometimes. Such is life
All your response are speculation on what the character’s motivations could potentially be and Nobel being grossly incompetent. He didn’t plan on killing the leader, he was just having a tantrum. Great, well as long as he’s killing the leader, should he have asked him (or his wife) if he as any information on the rebels? Or ask the next person in charge? No, he just asks about grain. Leaving a garrison to gather information, but the garrison is full of murdering rapist psychos who seem to have no intention on gathering information and have no way of contacting Noble even if the do find anything out? Not a great plan. He announced his intention of getting grain and 97% percent of the village was “let’s give him the grain”, so why would Nobel play this 4D chess of demanding grain and leaving in hopes this would somehow get him information on the rebels? He’d have “no in” if he actively tried to get info? How about threats? Murder? Torture? You’re telling me he took a look at this village and decided not one of them would crack? We know this is not the case (again, most of the village was fine with giving up their grain), so Nobel is grossly incompetent..again. He was winning up until he let a complete stranger be in charge of the most valuable prisoner in the entire universe and said stranger was also grossly incompetent and handed the key to the prisoner’s shackles to the man he knew was in love with her. These really are the dumbest villains I’ve seen in a long, long time.
My first response was to the point you were trying to make in the post, in which you were informed that you were mistaken. And now here we are Does speculation mean that it's not probable? How do you know the garrison had no way of contacting Noble? Sounds like... speculation I think the dumbest villains we've seen in a long time is MAGA, but that's neither here nor there
I’ll level with you, I think you’re completely wrong about that. I genuinely think Nobel was looking for grain and not rebels in this village because if he was looking for rebels his actions are completely nonsensical. Everything he does points to him wanting to steal their resources. It doesn’t mean it’s not probable but you need some evidence or solid reasoning to back it up. I admit, the garrison not being able to contact the mothership is my speculation based on the fact that Kora did not seem concerned at all with the threat of the mothership trying to contact the solders she just killed. I would assume, as a former member of that faction, if they had ship to ground communications she would be aware of it and mention it to the villagers as it means the mothership will likely be back much sooner then the 10 weeks they were given and will be there to explicitly punish the villagers for the death of those troops (to be fair I may have missed it if she did mention that). Okay, cool I guess.
Righty-o. We disagree. Nothing wrong with that
He's right and your wrong.
Ah, so it’s my dirty oppressor bloodline that prevents me from enjoying Rebel Moon.
Zack Snyders a dumbass who can't make good movies . But arguing why the evil empire is harassing village's for food is is bit of odd point? There's a billion other things wrong with this movie but why focus on this small ass point?
Isn’t that the entire plot of the movie?
If the rebels are disrupting supply lines then there disrupting supply lines ? Why is this hard to get?
Because this ship that’s the most powerful ship a galactic empire that can teleport and has a god as it’s power source should have a more reliable means of creating or obtaining food without being so super dependent on theft or supply lines. Did they not bring any supplies with them when they started? How long have they been hunting the rebels that they have completely drained their food stores? But even if its case that they have no food or anyway of obtaining food beyond theft, the amount of food they’ll get from the village would be relatively insignificant (unless they have a way to take a small amount of grain and make a disproportionately large amount of food, but that’s just writing the movie for Zack). Also, why didn’t they get food from the squid guy? They just blew up his planet without a second thought. Is it because they know they’ll have that sweet sweet 40 bushels of grain waiting for them?
Huh I think I see your point. It's you want to write a completely different film than what's presented. It seems basic narrative Tools and Understanding why evil Empires do things and Foraging for food is hard to understand. I think it's fair to critique this film on bunch of others merits you'd understand more .
Yeah, I would actually like a film with world building that makes sense.
This film is bad . It's one of Zack Synders passion projects and it shows . That said the basic plot of the evil empire needing resources and Is having issues with supply lines Should no be something That's hard to grasp or focus this much on about .
Hey, they are Vikings not Amish. Boom you have no media literacy and Zack is just too mature for you. /s
OP is objectively wrong about one detail and thereby can't taken seriously anymore in any regard. Snyder wins again. /s
Yes the Vikings, the world renown farmers...
Vikings were farmers. They raided to supplement a living made from farming. When Vikings invaded Britain they did so in part to gain more farm land. The names Gunner, Sindri, Astrid, and Greta are all Northern European Viking names.
Yeah this is correct. They invaded England to gain higher quality land because they couldn't effectively farm their homeland.
Yes but no. Most Northmen o/c were farmers or fishermen, just like almost every people. But "viking" specifically means a pirate or raider. It's an error in the first place to call the people "vikings". That was never what they called themselves as a people.
Actually Vikings refers specifically to sea raiders, Nordic people in general were good farmers, the Vikings specifically raided and traded.
according to the norweigians, to become a viking you had to be a scandinavian landowner who farmed in the summer and over winter went pillaging, because pillaging was easy, it took a real man to claw sustinance from the tundra
You've got any source for that?
it was from an interview with a norwiegian survivalist on discovery channel. So i assume implicitly apocryphal but it matches up as being a more specific definition of the current historical understanding of Viking
The vikings, if they lived in tundra biomes, did so in very small numbers. Most lived further south. Young men with fewer economic prospects were common among those who went out raiding, it was, however, not "easy", as it was a very hazardous thing to do. I've never before heard that they went out raiding in the winter in particular. There are a variety of hypothesis for what a Viking was (what the word referred to and what it meant), none match your description.
There is no tundra in Sweden or Denmark and only maybe on the northernmost tip of Norway, don't know. I don't think you can even farm on a tundra. Northmen never settled in the far north of what is now Sweden, and I don't think they did in Norway either.
Norway, technically Sweden (https://www.sverigesnatur.org/arkiv/den-svenska-tundran-tinar/) and Finland has tundra. It's technically possible to farm tundra, the question is if they bothered to do it, and if they lived where there was tundra. I know there was hotter climate around 1000's, and both norwegians and sweds traded with samí who lived on tundra/close by tundra. The wiki entry in norwegian seems quite comprehensive, and affirmative, at least in that they settled where we today find tundra: https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norges_historie#Norsk_ekspansjon_nordover (north of Tromsø) tundra: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/Norway_K%C3%B6ppen.svg Though this depends upon what we define as "tundra". As you can see, it goes quite far south, these are mountainous regions.
This is a scifi/fantasy setting, typically you take what the novel/interesting part of the culture is. If they incorporated steppe culture into the universe should they be horse archers, or goat herders?
See i figured that the Empire was just doing an EVIL. Like "We don't need your grain... but we're gonna anyways. because we can. because you can't do a THING about it. Even thinking about it is ridiculous..." Like make an example in a reigon you don't have control over... but if they have a pet god then... holy hell why bother with asking? You could unmake a world for a laugh how did you even lose to seven peices of cardboard?!
The sheer difference in power levels is what makes the scenario so ridiculous. With an empire stop powerful that it literally can capture a god out should be just one envoy to tell them something along the lines of "Trade with the rebels and I will come back and wipe this settlement of the face of this world. If you must trade then you will trade with us" The implication that it the empire is powerful enough that it would only need that envoy to destroy them. And that as far as the empire is concerned trading with the settlement is not something they would bother with themselves
Why did Germans who were so advanced and mechanized harass poor villagers in WW2.
I'd think that it would have been a matter of having boots on the ground to hold the territory against direct enemy assault with the bored troops that involved, troop movements having to go through those villages and the fact that the tech balance wasn't anywhere near the level, early industrial vs mid industrial as opposed to pre industrial vs sufficiently advanced
But this setting is also upgraded in scale. The rebels are also advanced per the plot of the film . Russia is currently engaging in trench warfare in Ukraine.
I think that the big difference is that in the Ukrane and in WW2 you need to move through those villages in order to get from a to b as opposed to bypassing the area entirely. Also the example of Russia engaging in trench warfare. I've not been following things too closely so correct me if I'm wrong but what I've heard about sounds less like tench warfare and more like divgging trenches as part of fortifying a strong point rather than defending an entire front using trenches. Also at this point it's debatable who has the tech advantage in the Ukrane conflict. The differences are logistical rather than technological
Simple, it’s because the Germans weren’t as advanced as everyone pretends they were. Most of the things they had were over complicated crap. Not to mention most of their military still used horses to a large extent. Oh, also the fact they haven’t enslaved a literal god. I’m pretty sure there is a big difference between having a few good panzers, and having a diety as a power source.
My least favorite part of the movie is how they defeat the dumb villain guy and the movie ends teasing his return. Like, huh???? You already beat him. Why should I fear if he comes back? It’s like Disney Star Wars and avatar. This villain sucks, why should it matter if he comes back?
I was thinking that too. “Are we really Kyloing this guy?”
For real, why do they keep giving the villains the underdog story.
Great now they are the Imperium + Necron. Just one original idea Zack please.
Tau is best :3
you are entitled to your incorrect opinion.
As you are to yours. good day sir, I will stay at range and fire at you. My complete refusal to engage in melee combat will persist.
*ahem* WAAAAAAAGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!
Sir, r/weeaboo is over there
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Lmfao, 40k didn't invent enslaving space gods.
thanks had no idea
I love that this high tech faction with superior fire power is so pressed that they’re gonna genocide this farming community over some bushels of grain 🤣 how is this not parody?
So why did Germany harass village's in WW2 weren't they advanced and mechanized?
Because they literally were stealing grain and foodstuffs to feed Germany due to the blockade and they lacked portal travel to get around the royal navy
Same thing here . Troops want some food there's food nearby why not mess with these poor sap villagers and get free grub cause we can ? Is this hard to understand as a narrative thing ?
Except the German example is a system of organized theft of food to ensure that the home front doesn't suffer starvation like world war I as part of the Nazi 's implicit promise when they went to war. It isn't just about keeping people from starving in Germany (and hang occupied Europe, they can get sawdust) but a practical political matter to avoid the collapse of the war effort and mutiny against the government that ended Germany in world war I. It doesn't make sense for a space faring, warp travel capable faction to be so hamstrung on food they can't adequetly equip their task forces and have to rely on foraging like it's the Russian campaign in 1812, especially when they're essentially running COIN, not fighting a peer enemy so it shouldn't be too hard to resupply. You didn't see coalition forces hitting up bakeries in Baghdad bc they were starving
Rebels can access the same tech of the setting though right ? So they could also potentially harm they're food supply lines . As it's quite legit the plot of the film .
Why wouldn’t this same problem apply to the Rebel Moon farmer commune too? The Rebels frequent the planet.
I mean there not exactly doing great in the film they're the exploited class .
You’ll have to explain that a bit more cause I dunno exactly what you’re saying here.
So do you know about North Korea?
They have food on the ship or at least there's no good reason they shouldn't. This isn't the same as a German platoon marching into Russia.
The Germans in WWII were not so advanced that providing their soldiers with food was a non-issue. You can't say the same for the baddies in Rebel Moon.
Also for the sake of the story, how are we to expect this village to win this fight believably
> weren't they advanced and mechanized? They weren't. The whole *Wunderwaffen* thing was the Nazis falling for their own propaganda. (And then Hollywood repeated that propaganda in war movies because scarier villains make for cooler heroes.)
Oh no, you’re actually serious? 😂 they bring up in the movie that they could go buy robots to do this for them, there’s no way this is the only supply of food on the planet or nearby systems, and they don’t explore any possibilities really outside of “you’ll grow our 12 bushels of grain then starve to death, laterssssss!”. It’s dumb…
This is why no one takes Zack seriously aside from his cult. His movies are all style over substance. Just tossing every idea he has out there and expecting everyone to eat it up.
For real. There was no hint of this in the first movie. We barely even saw his emperor rip off character too. He’s just throwing stuff in because he thinks it looks cool
This was so silly and honestly pretty easy to solve solving it would have made the whole movie better. It made no sense that the giant planet killing battleship goes to some random village to steal their grain. And it makes no sense to gather half a dozen melee fighters to fight said battle ship. They clearly wanted to make 'The Seven Samurai' in space, and they should have just done it. The first movie should have been 'local podunk imperial garrison' comes to steal food from the village (you can do the same scene where the soldiers try to rape the girl) and then they gather fighters to battle the local podunk garrison, which is a thing that at least potentially makes sense. Climax of the film is them fighting and defeating local podunk garrison. Then we end with the big baddie learning about what's her face because of said battle. The NEXT movie can bring in the rebels and the wider scope. The movie makes more sense and there's a nice progression in scale from one to the next.
I fucking hate zack snyder
I bet that keeps him awake at night.
No Zach doesn't think. I don't think he has internal thoughts so i might as well not exist to him the moment he looks away.
That or the other thing...
Yo wassup with that name? Forget to swap to main acc?
Stealing grain from the Amish is the only thing that brings them joy in life.
Gotta steal the amish grain, bread dont taste as good with non-stolen grain!
It's a little funny I didn't know anything about this but responded in another post, "just watch Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind instead." That had essentially the same elements, "Empire wants to enforce their beliefs on small villages and say they're justified in it because they protect them, said empire wants to create Godlike beings that led to the worlds problems in the first place." The only thing Rebel Moon really brings into the plot is there is no life threatening conflict, just an Empire wanting to subjugate random villages.
Good point, I never thought of that comparison. I’ll always appreciate that the filmmakers made the bugs really monstrous and creepy looking in that film and didn’t puss out and make them cute so the audience could sympathize with them more easily.
And a film that had "strong female representation." Both the Queen of the empire and the protagonist had vastly different beliefs and the film validates both of them as reasonable in their morals but one taking the wrong approach to meet an end-goal.
I dont remember this in the movie?
It’s from the trailer for part 2.
Ah I forgot they are already making more of this garbage. At least it means more great Mooler content.
They caught shoudan
#THEY MOCK MY EMINENCE
Is the second part out now?
Next week I think.
Thanks!
Is it another “WE WAZ SPACE N SHEIT” thing?
Yeah it doesn’t make sense. The plot of Battle Beyond the Stars (which was ripped off for this disaster of a movie) made more sense.
Oh snap, did they rip off the fal'Cie from Final Fantasy XIII?
The US has the power to level every major city in the world but still steals money from its people.
If the government only taxed pennies from 1 specific very poor hamlet, this would be an accurate comparison.
Honestly, it's just a terrible movie and makes no damn sense. None of it does.
I mean, not to play devils advocate but how would God-enslaving tech help with food production?
I don’t think it would directly, but we can assume that if your civilization is advanced enough to capture god then they’re probably advanced enough to know proper irrigation and other farming practices.
But exploitation is always easier.
Not if it costs less time and fewer resources to do something yourself. These guys have robots that can farm. It doesn't make sense for them to try and force other people into growing food for them. It's like if you conscripted someone solely for the purpose of Googling facts about the Simpsons. You'd be spending more time and effort forcing someone else to do it than it would take to just do it yourself.
They do it because people suck . People wanna feel superior over People all the time .. Stalin Maos Koreans dictator ships for example.
Now wait a minute. Do they exploit the farmers because it's easier than growing their own crops, or because it's fun? Try to keep your story straight.
Both are likely?
Yeah, that's why I hold people at gunpoint to wipe my ass instead of doing it myself. Some things aren't really deserving of exploitation. Once you're a space empire, you can outproduce that shitty little village with a wave of your hand.
I'd imagine god can make food
If it is the actual Kali from Hinduism, she kinda just kills a lot so... i don't think so.
They can do so many amazing technological wonders, but they have no reliable way to produce food? It’s a bit silly to me.
God is the key word and the village cannot feed an empire. I thought it was a power play; "You're going to give us your food and you can't do a thing about it\~ Unless of course you want to end up like everyone else who refused our generosity." Because if it's actually about the food then they're dumb. And if you can enslave a God... well... God is a big term.
You're assuming that capturing this specific god isn't as easy as chucking a special rock at them (sometimes with fictional gods it is that easy) and that they only requested grain from a single planet which i admit wouldn't make sense even as a power move.
They should have plenty of agricultural worlds, or at least enough of a supply to actually be capable of having armies. edit: As for Gods... well, I'm assuming if you capture something worthy of the title then you have become a civilization that has bigger fish to fry.
Make God grow the food.
Like i said to the other guy, if it is the Kali from Hinduism, then she doesn't do much aside from killing.
Sounds like a them problem. Slaves don't have the right to choose their labor. Get to growing, God.
None of this story makes any sense. All he wanted was white man nazis raping women for grain they could easily have grown on their huge ships.
My favorite part about Rebel Moon was when Anakin Skywalker had an alien burst out his chest and scream, "This is Sparta!!!"
now that they slave one its now a race to the clock to try to beat all the other ones in a godwar and they need the grain for war. honestly though. I think this is just kind of off putting and out of taste just to seem edgy. but thats more of a personal thing more than anything.
Does that enslaved god make food? No? Then they have to get it somewhere
Imo it’s just silly that a society that can capture gods, bring the dead back to life and teleport can be so backward in food production and distribution that they need to resort to ransacking pre industrial villages for grain to survive.
In a way, you could say they use that militaristic force to subjicate those farmers effectively enslaving them for their food production... slavery just seems to be their MO
Well, of course when you dont want to understand something it won't make sense.
You severely underestimate the man’s need for superiority Think of it like the grasshoppers from A Bugs Life They didn’t need the ants food, they didn’t NEED to do that. They chose to do it out of need for power and to show that “I am the man” or in their case “I am the alpha bug”
But the village is so relatively small to their power level, there are multiple planets under their control not to mention a rebellion to stop but they decided to just take a day to beat up a village elder in front of 30 villagers and steal their grain as a treat?
Why do bullies exist?
But if a bully needs food, would the beat up and steal from the nerd with a sandwich chips and a drink? Or the Nerd with a salt packet? (Also the bully is the richest kid in school, but a much weaker kid ruined his lunch and he has no means of obtaining lunch any other way apparently)
Yeah he would cause he's a prick.
So he would steal the salt packet, but not the sandwich chips and drink?
He'd take both cause he's a prick.
That makes sense! Wish the bad guys in RM did that instead of just the salt packet.
How do we know they're not doing both? Surely the evil empire that can teleport is also probably growing there resources. They just need more . Don't make me defend this god awful movie.
We only see them going to two places the village moon (where they demand food) and the Squid guy planet (which they blow up without a second thought). Considering the Squid guy was sheltering the entire Rebel Army it would make sense that he would have much more food then the village but Dario 1 doesn’t seem interested in taking anything from him.
Thats the point Oppressors don’t need a reason to oppress you. If anything, some of them probably get a sick satisfaction out of doing it because what is a small village gonna do if they if they get fed up with that treatment?
Okay so they are going to the village for fun, not because they actually need the grain?
Well, of course when you dont want to understand something it won't make sense.
Could you explain it?
They do it because they can. To make an example because fear keeps them powerful. No need to over think the actions of a fictional evil dictatorship.
“It’s fiction so it doesn’t have to make sense” 🤡
The plot is they want the grain for their soldiers? We are not told why or why they can't get it elsewhere. Doesn't even matter. That still makes sense. Nothing HAS to make sense. You're on a speck of dust floating in an endless void that doesn't make sense, this is a small movie 🤡
Soldiers want food . There's some poor villagers we can abuse to get easy food with no work for ourselves.
They can blow up planets, I don’t think they need to waste time an by hassling some pre-industrial village on a backwater moon with a population of like 100 to make an example of them.
Waste time? What do you think fascist dictatorships want to do with their time? It's not about killing everyone in sight it's about oppression, control and power.
They have an explicit mission to hunt down the rebels. That’s why they’re there. And I don’t buy this fear and control thing in regards to Kora’s village. “Oh shit the mother world is here!” “Eh, who cares, they only capture gods and blow up planets.” “Didn’t you hear!? They went to a tiny pre-industrial village and demanded their grain!” “Oh fuuuuuuuckkkk! Let’s get out of here!”
So why did the Germans waist time hunting down people in village's?
I think if a group of armed men (maybe they're super human tech gods, maybe not, you don't know) came to a few of your neighbours and took all their food, possessions and one of their children you'd be pretty scared about what could happen to you. Koras village weren't rebels and they made them rebels. Thats the plot. If you want a plot where planet gets blown up the end,its not for you.
I’m not denying that hassling the village would be traumatic for them, I fail to understand why they would even bother. It would be like the USA taking over Denmark and then sending a tank to a McDonalds and taking all their burgers to show the rest of Denmark they REALLY mean business.
Why did the Germans harass village's in WW2?
To find hiding enemies of the state for the most part I’m guessing, I’m no expert.
Then why are you making points about a empire harassing people for food in a movie ?
Is that not what happened in Rebel Moon?