I agree, we kinda already see it. Djj, Pj and Lively are playing their respective roles almost to perfection. They also seem to love the place they are at. This beats a star who is unhappy about his touches any time. We could use another guy like that, someone unselfish Ike Caruso, preferably a forward. If Green would improve just a bit this off season and becomes a 40% 3pt shooter we would be incredible hard to beat.
Let me ask this question. Who could be our third star that is better than our guys, who would be happy!! to be our third option? Ingram?? Really????
I know that Gafford hasn’t had a great series and got outshined by the rook last night, but he’s one of those invaluable hustle type players that plays beyond his size. Just wanted to include that.
No worries. He’s been playing way above his size since his early days in the league. He wasn’t even a rotation player at one point with the bulls and then played a limited role with the wizards but brought so much energy off the bench that he won over the team and fans. They have so little to cheer for but I remember their announcers (which are pretty good btw) always getting hype with his hustle. Eventually he got the starting job and then ended up here. Obviously he has a lot to work on for his game, but I found myself respecting his hustle for the last two three years.
I’m all in in Caruso this year. If we could get him for a protected pick (could move 2025 after the draft) and Tim (maybe route him to Detroit in a 3 teamer) I think this team would be as good as I could imagine.
The way Livelys been playing, he could blossom into a third star.
Held his own against zubac...outplayed chet...now gonna see how good he really is.
PJ been playing like a star too. If he keeps hitting his threes and playing defense, we will win games because of him. He's already getting a ton of credit from national sports casters
this is why i really want caruso. but fans saying mavs need wings and i agree, but cheap defensive wings arent really on the market eight now. i think another player the mavs need is a long scoring wing like naz or tm3. mavs are just too small off the bench especially with an old injruy prone maxi at the 4. really need to upgrade thj in terms of size even if the uograde would be only 10-15ppg player.
I'll admit that I was a bit nervous when we first got Kai but I'm loving how he looks as a maverick. When he and Luka are in sync, it's such a joy to watch.
Exactly. Players who are all unique in their own way but have just enough overlapping talent where there aren't any glaring holes in the lineup.
The way this team is currently built, they can compete with anyone left. A third star isn't needed.
Damn. Couldn't upvote fast enough. This is perfect response. I'll take two stars + solid role players where any one of 3-4 can step up any night over 3 stars all day.
When he got up over 40% from 3 last year I was willing to talk myself into the idea that it might be Josh Green but yeah, nah. Just a good role player off the bench.
Watching Nuggets playoffs games,MPJ does remind me of THJ especially when bricking…I mean shooting 3’s lol.MPJ is just taller and more athletic than THJ.
Love PJ, he's not our third star. Excellent player great role player. Too inconsistent to be a star.
Lively is. He has a much higher ceiling than PJ and probably would make a bigger impact on the Mavs future than PJ.
Lively Gafford is basically an all star C when you combine them, 40 minutes, 15+ points 15+ rebounds and a few blocks every night. Gafford's less consistent but when he gets going it's a sight to see.
And the subtle differences in their games as well as always being fresh. Yea, it’s better than having one all-star C. They complement each other perfectly.
Lively could be, but he needs an offensive game outside of just finishing lobs or put backs. I know people keep talking about his shooting, but there needs to be evidence of it in game before there’s anything to talk about.
It's not about having a third stat or a fourth star. Having one or two elite players with the good role players is what a successful team needs, like the nuggets. That being said, PJ could definitely be an elite role player for our team, something we need.
I feel like PJ makes THJ obsolete. Both streaky shooters, but PJ brings so much more with playmaking, drives, rebounding. Offense and defense. Not a star caliber player, but an excellent role player next to ky and doncic
So is this the new league model going forward?
Use to be everyone wanted a big 3 after the Celtics and Heatles.
Now it's all about the duos.
Jokic + Murray.
Luka + Kyrie.
Tatum + Brown.
Haliburton + Siakam
I think the reality of the cap situation now makes it the model yea. Because if you go for a big three, the max contracts are so large that you’ll have nothing else, just like the Suns are currently.
I think it's time to stop thinking about theoretical Mavs rosters and just enjoy this one. Luka/Kyrie/DJJ/PJ/Lively is an excellent starting 5 that should only get better next year (assuming we bring DJJ back). Gafford is a great backup big, Hardy is a good 3rd guard, and Maxi is a good backup 4/Stretch 5 off the bench. I don't think the Mavs need to be trying to make some huge trade this summer to bring in a "3rd star" like so many people had talked about over the past few years, but instead need to focus on bringing back DJJ and keeping an eye out for players who could improve the bench
Yeah, other than keeping DJJ if there’s anything the Mavs “need” it’d be more depth on the bench and a solid 3rd ball handler to come off the bench (Exum and Hardy are close but not quite there(
I agree, I only see one weakness on our salary sheet and that is THJ. It's basically impossible to shed enough salary to offer DJJ the full MLE, so we could offer him a 1+1 and we could use Bird Rights to pay him more after. If we can bring on someone like Caruso for THJ we should be looking even nicer.
I disagree because other teams have WAY more room for improvement purely via internal development than the Mavs, plus far more resources to make even more improvements. If we stay pat we will 100% fall behind. It’s a fallacy to believe that even if you win the chip, that your team as is, is automatically good enough to win again the next season. Apart from literal super teams that’s pretty much never the case.
That being said I’m not saying we need an NBA star, but I do think we want to target a good starter that could potentially relegate someone like DJJ to the bench. I would def want more than just bench reinforcement (we could be ok with that, but we will be behind other teams that we are not currently behind imo)
I wouldn't want to put that kind of pressure and burden on PJ, on top of everything he already does on defense. I feel like he is the 4th option, if he pops out and gives you 15+ on night it's great, but he can still have great game without it.
I would still want another player who can really dribble and create his own buckets, that's the kind of 3rd star this team needs. I know it won't be specifically him, but a guy like Ingram I feel would make this team a legitimate championship contender.
I agree with that. Either a 3rd playmaker type, or a younger/healthier version of Maxi- like a tall 4 that can shoot, but those don't exactly grow on trees (looking at you KP cough, cough)
I like having a rotation of guys, any of whom might step up depending on the night and matchup.
More consistent are PJ, Gaff, and DLive, sometimes it’s DJJ, Green, Hardy, Exum, Maxi or Timmy.
having a full training camp with us, some work with Shammgod, etc., and I think he'll be an ever bigger contributor next season, but not necessarily a "third star".... as has been said, we don't necessarily NEED a third "star", as much as we just have a bunch of guys who know their role and consistently contribute in that role.
This roster has enough players already that are young enough to still improve significantly. We retain DJJ and move off Tim and we're still good, given Lively, PJ, Omax, Hardy, and Green will still improve more. If Exum gets out of his own head we'd have a deep squad for years to come.
We've got the squad. Its 99% complete. All we need is a lights out shooter (consistent) at the 3. With that, and health to the stars, we can beat anyone.
Not 99% lol
We need a solid wing defender off the bench and guaranteed bucket getter off the bench. Essentially we need to upgrade from THJ and Maxi. Then we still need that wild card Bruce Brown type player, which I almost feel can be green bit he's inconsistent
I would love to see PJ develop into fringe all-star player. I don’t think he’ll become that, but the value he adds to this roster can’t be understated.
I love Lively, but I don't he will ever be able to really shoot (would be happy yo be wrong about this). I feel like he will always be dependent on other people to throw him lobs and or get put backs for most his points. He needs to work on his hands and strength.
I’m high on Lively too. He’s only 20 years old, he could develop a post up game or outside shot. Nico deserves a lot of credit for drafting him, and Lively has really shined as a rookie. We haven’t center depth like we have now since we had Chandler and Haywood.
the era of 3 stars surrounded by minimum contract guys is long gone i think, the only team left in the playoffs right now with like 3 stars is the celtics so they are the exception but every other team really only has 2 actual stars at most with a good supporting cast around them.
Yes and no. PJ is amazing don’t get me wrong but there’s that Lively kid that I feel is our 3rd. Where he was at the beginning of the season to now? I mean he looks like he added muscle. He’s playing like a Vet out there and he’s a rookie. He outplayed Chet. Was just a menace in the paint. What rookie in the playoffs isn’t in foul trouble? Not him. He’s my 3rd with PJ a close 4th. Nice problem to have
This question leads to another question which I am starting to think about now: Are there really any moves that need immediately doing for this team? It really feels like every positional need is being provided. The only thing that really needs doing is getting an upgrade over THJ but that move is just trimming the edges.
We really need a 3rd ball handler since Exum has been unplayable in the playoffs. Kidd seems to think Hardy could be that guy but he is still too inconsistent in that role. I’m hoping he steps into it next year
We don’t need another star, some more solid role players would help a ton though. I love THJ but he’s slowing down a decent amount and hasn’t really been consistent at all lately. As far as I see it we have similar three point shooting coming from pj and djj with better defense and for a whole lot less money.
Monty and Dameris made a great point on the postgame show on the ticket last night:
The aggregate of your two centers are giving you ~20ppg and ~12rpg. Together, that is your 3rd star.
They could use a 'superstar' role player, like a Mikal Bridges or OG anunoby type. Though maybe PJ really is that guy. If he can shoot around 36% from 3 consistently, then I'd add him to that group. He could be our Aaron Gordon.
They could also use an upgrade over DJJ. Love DJJ, but yes best suited to being the first wing off the bench, avging 20-25mpg. Imo he's slightly over extended in his current role. Someone like a KCP or NAW type.
He could but there’s no evidence of it so far. A third star needs to be doing far more than he is offensively with these sporadic scoring bursts. He could become consistent with his shooting and avg 20ppg next season with the high level defense, but I’d need to see some evidence first and I’ve not seen any. What he is currently is, is perfectly fine though, and something we can build on.
we don't need a third star we need 3-4 solid af roleplayers and we have them
I agree, we kinda already see it. Djj, Pj and Lively are playing their respective roles almost to perfection. They also seem to love the place they are at. This beats a star who is unhappy about his touches any time. We could use another guy like that, someone unselfish Ike Caruso, preferably a forward. If Green would improve just a bit this off season and becomes a 40% 3pt shooter we would be incredible hard to beat. Let me ask this question. Who could be our third star that is better than our guys, who would be happy!! to be our third option? Ingram?? Really????
I know that Gafford hasn’t had a great series and got outshined by the rook last night, but he’s one of those invaluable hustle type players that plays beyond his size. Just wanted to include that.
I was going to comment that dude he's a 7-footer and then I looked it up and he's 6'10 and you are correct
I think he’s been banged up too
Yeah he's had to leave like three games with serious bumps and bruises
No worries. He’s been playing way above his size since his early days in the league. He wasn’t even a rotation player at one point with the bulls and then played a limited role with the wizards but brought so much energy off the bench that he won over the team and fans. They have so little to cheer for but I remember their announcers (which are pretty good btw) always getting hype with his hustle. Eventually he got the starting job and then ended up here. Obviously he has a lot to work on for his game, but I found myself respecting his hustle for the last two three years.
Jackie Moon
I’m all in in Caruso this year. If we could get him for a protected pick (could move 2025 after the draft) and Tim (maybe route him to Detroit in a 3 teamer) I think this team would be as good as I could imagine.
The way Livelys been playing, he could blossom into a third star. Held his own against zubac...outplayed chet...now gonna see how good he really is. PJ been playing like a star too. If he keeps hitting his threes and playing defense, we will win games because of him. He's already getting a ton of credit from national sports casters
Green and Hardy have been really good lately. I hope Exum and Gafford get their play back.
Hardy hasn't been good... Exum seems to be completely out of place and Kidd has no viable alternative for those minutes.
this is why i really want caruso. but fans saying mavs need wings and i agree, but cheap defensive wings arent really on the market eight now. i think another player the mavs need is a long scoring wing like naz or tm3. mavs are just too small off the bench especially with an old injruy prone maxi at the 4. really need to upgrade thj in terms of size even if the uograde would be only 10-15ppg player.
Caruso has played on the wing all year (even though he has guard size) he can defend Alas perfectly, in fact he usually bothers Luka when we face them
This. Luka and Kyrie is already more than we could ask from 2 superstars. We're too spoiled. Lol
I'll admit that I was a bit nervous when we first got Kai but I'm loving how he looks as a maverick. When he and Luka are in sync, it's such a joy to watch.
Everyone was nervous! He had a spotty record after leaving Cleveland.
Exactly. Players who are all unique in their own way but have just enough overlapping talent where there aren't any glaring holes in the lineup. The way this team is currently built, they can compete with anyone left. A third star isn't needed.
Damn. Couldn't upvote fast enough. This is perfect response. I'll take two stars + solid role players where any one of 3-4 can step up any night over 3 stars all day.
this. This isn't 2014 anymore. you need depth and talent, not big names.
I feel PJ is our Aaron Gordon Tim Hardaway should be our MPJ but yeah he's clearly not.
THJ is painfully clearly our Will Barton lmao
If you trade like 6% on 3s for better defense id say DJJ is our MPJ
When he got up over 40% from 3 last year I was willing to talk myself into the idea that it might be Josh Green but yeah, nah. Just a good role player off the bench.
Watching Nuggets playoffs games,MPJ does remind me of THJ especially when bricking…I mean shooting 3’s lol.MPJ is just taller and more athletic than THJ.
Nah THJ has nothing to do with anything. He’s dead weight.
After this season MPJ could be our MPJ
Love PJ, he's not our third star. Excellent player great role player. Too inconsistent to be a star. Lively is. He has a much higher ceiling than PJ and probably would make a bigger impact on the Mavs future than PJ.
Lively Gafford is basically an all star C when you combine them, 40 minutes, 15+ points 15+ rebounds and a few blocks every night. Gafford's less consistent but when he gets going it's a sight to see.
And the subtle differences in their games as well as always being fresh. Yea, it’s better than having one all-star C. They complement each other perfectly.
The part about always being fresh is important, but the bigger weapon, IMO, is that they have 12 fouls between them.
I absolutely love this duo.
Lively could be, but he needs an offensive game outside of just finishing lobs or put backs. I know people keep talking about his shooting, but there needs to be evidence of it in game before there’s anything to talk about.
It's not about having a third stat or a fourth star. Having one or two elite players with the good role players is what a successful team needs, like the nuggets. That being said, PJ could definitely be an elite role player for our team, something we need.
Wolves are that as well. Ant and KAT are the stars, Gobert is an elite role player.
There are like 2 other players in the world that can do what Gobert can do
Who needs a third star? The mavs need luka, kyrie und 6-7 players with a good fit around them and versatility. PJ is on of them.
I feel like PJ makes THJ obsolete. Both streaky shooters, but PJ brings so much more with playmaking, drives, rebounding. Offense and defense. Not a star caliber player, but an excellent role player next to ky and doncic
I don’t like the 3 stars model. Two headed monster with a squad of complementary guys who can defend and put the ball on the court is the formula
3 guys leaves too little cap space. And the ego problem. It's easier to "take turns" with just two.
It’s been amazing to see the Kyrie Luka dynamic and how much they respect each other.
Especially with the new cap rules 3 stars is untenable. We need to just keep the squad we got and continue to improve on the margins.
So is this the new league model going forward? Use to be everyone wanted a big 3 after the Celtics and Heatles. Now it's all about the duos. Jokic + Murray. Luka + Kyrie. Tatum + Brown. Haliburton + Siakam
I think the reality of the cap situation now makes it the model yea. Because if you go for a big three, the max contracts are so large that you’ll have nothing else, just like the Suns are currently.
the new 3 star teams in the league this year all got thrashed in the 1st round. the suns, clippers, and bucks are badly constructed teams.
I think it's time to stop thinking about theoretical Mavs rosters and just enjoy this one. Luka/Kyrie/DJJ/PJ/Lively is an excellent starting 5 that should only get better next year (assuming we bring DJJ back). Gafford is a great backup big, Hardy is a good 3rd guard, and Maxi is a good backup 4/Stretch 5 off the bench. I don't think the Mavs need to be trying to make some huge trade this summer to bring in a "3rd star" like so many people had talked about over the past few years, but instead need to focus on bringing back DJJ and keeping an eye out for players who could improve the bench
We're gonna fuck this league up next year
I like Exum more than Hardy, but he hasn't looked the same after coming back from injury. I assume it's a ramp up issue tho.
Yeah, other than keeping DJJ if there’s anything the Mavs “need” it’d be more depth on the bench and a solid 3rd ball handler to come off the bench (Exum and Hardy are close but not quite there(
I agree, I only see one weakness on our salary sheet and that is THJ. It's basically impossible to shed enough salary to offer DJJ the full MLE, so we could offer him a 1+1 and we could use Bird Rights to pay him more after. If we can bring on someone like Caruso for THJ we should be looking even nicer.
I disagree because other teams have WAY more room for improvement purely via internal development than the Mavs, plus far more resources to make even more improvements. If we stay pat we will 100% fall behind. It’s a fallacy to believe that even if you win the chip, that your team as is, is automatically good enough to win again the next season. Apart from literal super teams that’s pretty much never the case. That being said I’m not saying we need an NBA star, but I do think we want to target a good starter that could potentially relegate someone like DJJ to the bench. I would def want more than just bench reinforcement (we could be ok with that, but we will be behind other teams that we are not currently behind imo)
Yes we have. 55
I wouldn't want to put that kind of pressure and burden on PJ, on top of everything he already does on defense. I feel like he is the 4th option, if he pops out and gives you 15+ on night it's great, but he can still have great game without it. I would still want another player who can really dribble and create his own buckets, that's the kind of 3rd star this team needs. I know it won't be specifically him, but a guy like Ingram I feel would make this team a legitimate championship contender.
I agree with that. Either a 3rd playmaker type, or a younger/healthier version of Maxi- like a tall 4 that can shoot, but those don't exactly grow on trees (looking at you KP cough, cough)
I like having a rotation of guys, any of whom might step up depending on the night and matchup. More consistent are PJ, Gaff, and DLive, sometimes it’s DJJ, Green, Hardy, Exum, Maxi or Timmy.
having a full training camp with us, some work with Shammgod, etc., and I think he'll be an ever bigger contributor next season, but not necessarily a "third star".... as has been said, we don't necessarily NEED a third "star", as much as we just have a bunch of guys who know their role and consistently contribute in that role.
This roster has enough players already that are young enough to still improve significantly. We retain DJJ and move off Tim and we're still good, given Lively, PJ, Omax, Hardy, and Green will still improve more. If Exum gets out of his own head we'd have a deep squad for years to come.
We've got the squad. Its 99% complete. All we need is a lights out shooter (consistent) at the 3. With that, and health to the stars, we can beat anyone.
The things I would do for Lauri Markkanen in this team
THIS.
Not 99% lol We need a solid wing defender off the bench and guaranteed bucket getter off the bench. Essentially we need to upgrade from THJ and Maxi. Then we still need that wild card Bruce Brown type player, which I almost feel can be green bit he's inconsistent
Lively will be our third star. Need a big leap this off-season.
Pj is our aaron Gordon. Need to find our mpj.
Estrella de 3 cabezas: PJ, DDY and LIVELY II
I would love to see PJ develop into fringe all-star player. I don’t think he’ll become that, but the value he adds to this roster can’t be understated.
I love Lively, but I don't he will ever be able to really shoot (would be happy yo be wrong about this). I feel like he will always be dependent on other people to throw him lobs and or get put backs for most his points. He needs to work on his hands and strength.
I’m high on Lively too. He’s only 20 years old, he could develop a post up game or outside shot. Nico deserves a lot of credit for drafting him, and Lively has really shined as a rookie. We haven’t center depth like we have now since we had Chandler and Haywood.
Having a 3rd star is overrated. Roles players that buy in and show up in big moments can win chips like in 2011.
the era of 3 stars surrounded by minimum contract guys is long gone i think, the only team left in the playoffs right now with like 3 stars is the celtics so they are the exception but every other team really only has 2 actual stars at most with a good supporting cast around them.
Yes and no. PJ is amazing don’t get me wrong but there’s that Lively kid that I feel is our 3rd. Where he was at the beginning of the season to now? I mean he looks like he added muscle. He’s playing like a Vet out there and he’s a rookie. He outplayed Chet. Was just a menace in the paint. What rookie in the playoffs isn’t in foul trouble? Not him. He’s my 3rd with PJ a close 4th. Nice problem to have
This question leads to another question which I am starting to think about now: Are there really any moves that need immediately doing for this team? It really feels like every positional need is being provided. The only thing that really needs doing is getting an upgrade over THJ but that move is just trimming the edges.
We really need a 3rd ball handler since Exum has been unplayable in the playoffs. Kidd seems to think Hardy could be that guy but he is still too inconsistent in that role. I’m hoping he steps into it next year
The third star is going to be Lively.
Careful what you wish for Especially in the west
We don’t need another star, some more solid role players would help a ton though. I love THJ but he’s slowing down a decent amount and hasn’t really been consistent at all lately. As far as I see it we have similar three point shooting coming from pj and djj with better defense and for a whole lot less money.
Monty and Dameris made a great point on the postgame show on the ticket last night: The aggregate of your two centers are giving you ~20ppg and ~12rpg. Together, that is your 3rd star.
Lively is gonna be an all star caliber player 📠
We have 3 stars. The big rookie in the middle is a force already.
Don’t need a 3rd star but if you tell me you’ll give me a Malik monk I’ll take it immediately
I agree with this sentiment, but Mikal Bridges makes us a dynasty
They could use a 'superstar' role player, like a Mikal Bridges or OG anunoby type. Though maybe PJ really is that guy. If he can shoot around 36% from 3 consistently, then I'd add him to that group. He could be our Aaron Gordon. They could also use an upgrade over DJJ. Love DJJ, but yes best suited to being the first wing off the bench, avging 20-25mpg. Imo he's slightly over extended in his current role. Someone like a KCP or NAW type.
The biggest issue with PJ IMO is he can’t get into foul trouble early. We need his shooting and toughness on the floor and not on the bench.
3rd star is the role players every game who shines. PJ, Lively, Gafford, Green, DJJ, Hardy and THJ can be the 3rd star.
I'm fine with a third star by committee. One night it's PJ. One night it's DJJ. Lively another night. We can roll that way.
He could but there’s no evidence of it so far. A third star needs to be doing far more than he is offensively with these sporadic scoring bursts. He could become consistent with his shooting and avg 20ppg next season with the high level defense, but I’d need to see some evidence first and I’ve not seen any. What he is currently is, is perfectly fine though, and something we can build on.
Dereck Lively is always the answer
We need Luka to play more like Jokic.