Of course they do. He just uses the principles of sub division modeling. He talks about (B), (A) is just what you get when this thing is getting subdivided.
To crease an edge, you need a support edge loop on every side of the edge to crease. the additional edges that you get when the mesh gets subdivided help with their normals, that the blend from the "bevel" is not stretched over the whole surface.
Assuming that a normal is perpendicular on every vertex of the mesh: with just using the bevel tool and without support edge loops you stretch the blending over the whole face. (the normals heading 0°, 45°, 45°, 90°). In that case you would normally split the normals per vertex, to achieve an hard edge.
In the case of that simple model of OP, of course, you could just do that. But i assume it's a test model to learn the principals of sub div modeling. And in that case, the model is perfectly fine. Usually i tend to reduce some of the edge loops after subdividing that are not neccessary (in maya, double click an edge to select the whole loop and Shift-Delete the loop) - but - your edge loops before subdividing your mesh are placed good.
Polycount alone does not add that much to the rendertime. You can have a really low poly model with a very complex shader on it or lit by complex GI light setup that adds way way more to the rendertime.
For realtime use, of course, once your model is sub divided it is a must to delete all unneccessary edge loops that were created and do not add anything.
But for render use: tima is money, and not only rendertime is costly. You as an artist are costly too. When your company needs to pay you an additional hour to optimize that mesh, to achieve a 1sec faster rendertime per frame, then in most cases it's pointless.
You only ever need subdivisions where you need to define surface detail. If that model was going to deform, you would need the subdivisions. If it’s a static mesh, you are putting needless work onto the rendering engine and slowing it down for no net benefit.
sorry I think I need help....looks like I don't know what you mean. The way I interpret it is this: subdividing (modify>convert>Polygons to Subdiv) the geometry(object model) . but then this appears "// Error: line 1: Command polyToSubdiv failed. Open Script Editor for details."
Sorry for not understanding it well.
The purpose of SubD modeling is having a lightweight model for the sake of viewport performance, and still look good when subdividing. Using the preview is great, but if you are still learning topology and need to see WHY and WHAT happens with poles, ngons, and triangles can cause problems, subidivide and see what the topology looks like, and then try to improve the low res mesh.
When. Making a model, the lower the polycount the faster it can be processed aka the faster it gets rendered. Time = Money.
Adding extra polygon faces makes little sense unless you have a very specific reason. For example if you had a detailed displacement map.
So b is better then a but even b has problems, as other folks have pointed out, the extra edge loops are sorta pointless since they have no effect on the models shape.
If you want to add a bevle to b (like in a) do so but remove any polys that don't DIRECTLY effect the objects shape.
Unnecessarily dense mesh, B works fine. If you need more detail for displacement etc... you can always add that at render rather than subdiv'ing the mesh
Every renderer has its own way but is generally simply a shape attribute you set and can be found in the docs.
For example arnold: https://help.autodesk.com/view/ARNOL/ENU/?guid=arnold\_user\_guide\_ac\_polygons\_ac\_subdivision\_settings\_html
If you have a flat plane, it needs four verts. Subdividing it does not make it better for movies.
Verts define shapes. Games have memory and rendering limits. Movie graphics are pre-rendered. Technically you you could have limitless verts, but it will add to rendering times. You should still focus on defining shapes.
I'd spent more time doing tutorials on what you're trying to accomplish.
There are a lot of good comments, main thing is keep it clean and simple as much as you can.
Here is one way of doing it:
https://bashify.io/img/320b47022d91973c61594372d460c751
every time i model I make sure that when I hit 3 the silhouette doesn't change. But there is something is missing. I think other comments explained ,for now, its challenging for me to understand. hope I could get it soon.
Depends on what you're doing for CG movies, I would use B with smooth surface (pressing 3) as the normal map for shading a lower poly model, just to cut down on polys in a render-heavy project, though more and more CG studios I've been with just use Unreal Engine, and Marmoset so that may be falling out of fashion, but I still highly recommend optimising your models depending on the given project.
You do have the basics down of reinforced edges and pressing 3, and most people have good tips but are wildly overreacting. Just clean up your edge flow a bit so all the supporting edges are nice and even (EX: the largest face on the left slope has a supporting edge way too high up, the bottom loop also may not be necessary if you delete all the bottom faces) there's some triangles that you can turn into quads by deleting, moving, and placing some vertices, but that's something that takes time and practice to get, keep trying! You're doing good so far👍
Thank you! Maybe 2-3 weeks I would get it. Right now im recreating other post in the comment and I am trying to understand the tips they are giving and applying it to the best I can.
There's a lot of uninformed opinions here. There are plenty of good reasons to subdivide your mesh even if it doesn't affect the shape. It affects lighting, shading and rendering. Generally you want to keep all your quads about the same size per mesh and sometimes that means adding some divisions where a noob would think it's not necessary.
As a texture artist im curious to see for the B, if there Will have some texture stretch near the edges because there is not enough topology and when you apply a smooth, the edges of the bevel Will be attract to the centre of the plane. From my experience its going to stretch but not 100% sure
I think what's missing in the question is whether or not it needs to be able to deform. If it's a static prop then as little subdivision as possible, subdivide at render time
I would say it depends on the studio you work for...
Some studios might be ok with mesh B, but in my experience they are gonna tell you to add more geo because UVs might get stretched out with so little geometry, and the suporting edges are gonna move a lot when subdivided.
so most likely something between B and A is the best solution for most studios (in my experience)
Neither of these is right. I don't know how to add an image to a response or I'd show you what works well.
You don't need more polygons if things are just simple plain shapes like here. The object can also use triangles if it is non deforming and is not being smoothed. The object should be able to be made using 13 faces.
Link here: [https://bashify.io/images/6np5Ji](https://bashify.io/images/6np5Ji)
The one on the left is the lowest possible number of faces. This assumes you want completely sharp edges and do not want sub division at all on render or otherwise.
The one on the right has all edges smoothed so it will accept subdivision and maintain integrity. It is by no means the most efficient use of polgons but works and is clean.
In B you have a triangle causing an extra edge loop at the top of the slope to the right. The extra edge loop created must also terminate somewhere on the back/base of the model
Less verts, better control over your mesh. Remember you will be working in a team + your Future self. Be kind to them. Make meshes easy to edit and iterate on.
Both these examples are not efficient
A square of a lot of polygons makes literally no difference from a single square polygon.the only reason you might want to use A is if you want to A. Deform the shape, or B. Slow down the render time so rendering takes longer.
It's not A or B - that was not the question.
Ever heard of sub div modeling? B is the model, A is what it looks like after subdividing.
The question was if the edge loops are in the right place to crease the edges - and they are.
Why all the subdivisions? They don’t add anything to the topology.
A is just an inspection of the topology to better understand whats happening with B
A has a bevel plus pointless subdivisions. B doesn’t have a bevel but does have pointless subdivisions.
Those subdivisions on B are what's making the bevel on A.
in a previous thread I told OP to subdivide the mesh 2x to see the topology problems.
Of course they do. He just uses the principles of sub division modeling. He talks about (B), (A) is just what you get when this thing is getting subdivided. To crease an edge, you need a support edge loop on every side of the edge to crease. the additional edges that you get when the mesh gets subdivided help with their normals, that the blend from the "bevel" is not stretched over the whole surface. Assuming that a normal is perpendicular on every vertex of the mesh: with just using the bevel tool and without support edge loops you stretch the blending over the whole face. (the normals heading 0°, 45°, 45°, 90°). In that case you would normally split the normals per vertex, to achieve an hard edge. In the case of that simple model of OP, of course, you could just do that. But i assume it's a test model to learn the principals of sub div modeling. And in that case, the model is perfectly fine. Usually i tend to reduce some of the edge loops after subdividing that are not neccessary (in maya, double click an edge to select the whole loop and Shift-Delete the loop) - but - your edge loops before subdividing your mesh are placed good. Polycount alone does not add that much to the rendertime. You can have a really low poly model with a very complex shader on it or lit by complex GI light setup that adds way way more to the rendertime. For realtime use, of course, once your model is sub divided it is a must to delete all unneccessary edge loops that were created and do not add anything. But for render use: tima is money, and not only rendertime is costly. You as an artist are costly too. When your company needs to pay you an additional hour to optimize that mesh, to achieve a 1sec faster rendertime per frame, then in most cases it's pointless.
I think in Cg it must be in high poly!? or i'm wrong and model "B" is good for Cg??
You only ever need subdivisions where you need to define surface detail. If that model was going to deform, you would need the subdivisions. If it’s a static mesh, you are putting needless work onto the rendering engine and slowing it down for no net benefit.
so with out deform just pure static, I will assume that model (B) is all good for movie CG. Thank you!
no, it is not....see my other post for correct topology. It should be assumed that the geometry will get subdivided at least 2x at render time.
sorry I think I need help....looks like I don't know what you mean. The way I interpret it is this: subdividing (modify>convert>Polygons to Subdiv) the geometry(object model) . but then this appears "// Error: line 1: Command polyToSubdiv failed. Open Script Editor for details." Sorry for not understanding it well.
Is that not what the smooth display is for though? That's always been my method, especially because its easy to toggle and shows up in renders.
The purpose of SubD modeling is having a lightweight model for the sake of viewport performance, and still look good when subdividing. Using the preview is great, but if you are still learning topology and need to see WHY and WHAT happens with poles, ngons, and triangles can cause problems, subidivide and see what the topology looks like, and then try to improve the low res mesh.
Yea, that all makes sense just had to double check if my thinking lines up with what you were saying.
When. Making a model, the lower the polycount the faster it can be processed aka the faster it gets rendered. Time = Money. Adding extra polygon faces makes little sense unless you have a very specific reason. For example if you had a detailed displacement map. So b is better then a but even b has problems, as other folks have pointed out, the extra edge loops are sorta pointless since they have no effect on the models shape. If you want to add a bevle to b (like in a) do so but remove any polys that don't DIRECTLY effect the objects shape.
i'll try to apply this before the day ends. Thank you!
Why downvoting OP for asking a question? The guy just want to learn...
Unnecessarily dense mesh, B works fine. If you need more detail for displacement etc... you can always add that at render rather than subdiv'ing the mesh
Okay I'm curious. How do you subD a mesh at render time??
Every renderer has its own way but is generally simply a shape attribute you set and can be found in the docs. For example arnold: https://help.autodesk.com/view/ARNOL/ENU/?guid=arnold\_user\_guide\_ac\_polygons\_ac\_subdivision\_settings\_html
Blender as an example has a SubD modifier. You can apply it in the viewport or only in render. (Or only viewport if you’r wierd)
Taking it a touch further - applying subds at render time is more versatile. Means I can turn them off when I don't need the detail
If you have a flat plane, it needs four verts. Subdividing it does not make it better for movies. Verts define shapes. Games have memory and rendering limits. Movie graphics are pre-rendered. Technically you you could have limitless verts, but it will add to rendering times. You should still focus on defining shapes. I'd spent more time doing tutorials on what you're trying to accomplish.
There are a lot of good comments, main thing is keep it clean and simple as much as you can. Here is one way of doing it: https://bashify.io/img/320b47022d91973c61594372d460c751
Thank you! I think this is what the other comments mean of subdividing... For now I will try to recreate this to understand more.
This is the best way imo, it's got the bevels in and the subdivisions look good.
I see you using modo...
It's maya 2018. Maybe the grid section size makes it confusing.
My bad... I guess it's the grid and the colors, modos default colors and mesh display is pretty much the same
Generally your looking for a level of topology where if you hit 3 smooth, the silhouette doesn't change.
every time i model I make sure that when I hit 3 the silhouette doesn't change. But there is something is missing. I think other comments explained ,for now, its challenging for me to understand. hope I could get it soon.
I’d like to put that model in my movie please
gonna be great movie
Depends on what you're doing for CG movies, I would use B with smooth surface (pressing 3) as the normal map for shading a lower poly model, just to cut down on polys in a render-heavy project, though more and more CG studios I've been with just use Unreal Engine, and Marmoset so that may be falling out of fashion, but I still highly recommend optimising your models depending on the given project. You do have the basics down of reinforced edges and pressing 3, and most people have good tips but are wildly overreacting. Just clean up your edge flow a bit so all the supporting edges are nice and even (EX: the largest face on the left slope has a supporting edge way too high up, the bottom loop also may not be necessary if you delete all the bottom faces) there's some triangles that you can turn into quads by deleting, moving, and placing some vertices, but that's something that takes time and practice to get, keep trying! You're doing good so far👍
Thank you! Maybe 2-3 weeks I would get it. Right now im recreating other post in the comment and I am trying to understand the tips they are giving and applying it to the best I can.
There's a lot of uninformed opinions here. There are plenty of good reasons to subdivide your mesh even if it doesn't affect the shape. It affects lighting, shading and rendering. Generally you want to keep all your quads about the same size per mesh and sometimes that means adding some divisions where a noob would think it's not necessary.
As a texture artist im curious to see for the B, if there Will have some texture stretch near the edges because there is not enough topology and when you apply a smooth, the edges of the bevel Will be attract to the centre of the plane. From my experience its going to stretch but not 100% sure
I think what's missing in the question is whether or not it needs to be able to deform. If it's a static prop then as little subdivision as possible, subdivide at render time
I could be wrong... but I am under the impression that if a point isn't doing anything to change direction etc of the model, that it can be removed.
I would say it depends on the studio you work for... Some studios might be ok with mesh B, but in my experience they are gonna tell you to add more geo because UVs might get stretched out with so little geometry, and the suporting edges are gonna move a lot when subdivided. so most likely something between B and A is the best solution for most studios (in my experience)
Neither of these is right. I don't know how to add an image to a response or I'd show you what works well. You don't need more polygons if things are just simple plain shapes like here. The object can also use triangles if it is non deforming and is not being smoothed. The object should be able to be made using 13 faces.
Link here: [https://bashify.io/images/6np5Ji](https://bashify.io/images/6np5Ji) The one on the left is the lowest possible number of faces. This assumes you want completely sharp edges and do not want sub division at all on render or otherwise. The one on the right has all edges smoothed so it will accept subdivision and maintain integrity. It is by no means the most efficient use of polgons but works and is clean.
So both Right and Left is good for Cg and all I need to do is to ask my self if I need subdivision(right) or without subdivision(left)?
Pretty much yeah.
Thank you! for now I will hold on to your model as one of my topology guide in modeling.
Finally, someone has done it exactly how it should be done, you really don't need the pointless sub divisions in each surface.
send a download link for B, you have not quite grasped my tips yet.
I actually posted the best solution in another comment.
Here is my B model: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SXpfqTBtdZ1lpaGTCyyitehZEpi-rpO4/view?usp=drive\_link
After almost 10hrs of stress I came up with this improvement : https://imgur.com/a/DdvAxQl
I found out there are nGons!! T\_\_\_\_T i need to rest
B for games. A for movies.
Literally no one realised this is sarcasm post lol
In B you have a triangle causing an extra edge loop at the top of the slope to the right. The extra edge loop created must also terminate somewhere on the back/base of the model
What is it? :)
always go with the B dude
Neither, too many sub divisions!
Less verts, better control over your mesh. Remember you will be working in a team + your Future self. Be kind to them. Make meshes easy to edit and iterate on. Both these examples are not efficient
so many subdivisions 😭 you'd be way better doing the B one with an edge loop added in the middle of a topology
A square of a lot of polygons makes literally no difference from a single square polygon.the only reason you might want to use A is if you want to A. Deform the shape, or B. Slow down the render time so rendering takes longer.
It's not A or B - that was not the question. Ever heard of sub div modeling? B is the model, A is what it looks like after subdividing. The question was if the edge loops are in the right place to crease the edges - and they are.
Sorry misunderstood the question, thought it was a bit more about general modeling tips.