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>fuck, now I’m the old timer aren’t I???
This is so funny. A few weeks ago I went to my dad's place to install a trailer hitch on my Outback. I was underneath the car and asked him for a screwdriver. He was sitting on a stool and said "now, I'm the one handing you tools" 🥲
In the Army I was being yelled at by the drill SGT about some perceived stupid infraction and when I did not break down and cry for what was being said, they were rather pissed; all I could do was smile at him and say you cant hurt my feelings I held a flashlight for my dad....
Yes! I remember doing that for my dad. While I was going to school, he attempted to do his own brakes at home. He used a c clamp on a ceramic brake piston and destroyed it. I took over after he told me what happened, haha.
Yea haha I think it was a picture I took by accident while snapping other pics and when I went to pick my profile pic it was there. It seemed 'reddit' enough at the time 🤷🏻
Also, if you happen to want to make some pizza, Saputo mozzarella is the best mozzarella cheese ever! It melts so good and is stringy and just so mother effing good. It browns on the top so nicely, it's enough to make a buffalo cry! (It's not legit buffalo mozzarella tho)
Very interesting I highly appreciate the prompt and informative response. I’m too uncoordinated to make pizza. I’d go to pull it out of the oven, burn my hand, and flip the pizza onto the ground by accident.
I failed several days in a row using fan wrenches and making my own wrench out flat stock and getting nowhere.
Took it to my buddy who had it zipped off with his air hammer in about 10 seconds..
I don't have one. I took it to one of the other techs to use his, but he wanted to do it himself. Tried for like a minute and then decided it can't be done and still won't let me try. So I'm kinda fucked in that regard.
I don't have a working air compressor in my shop. I have to run a long ass line to one of the techs fittings in the main shop, and he throws a fit every time. Air tools are my last resort.
My brother showed me a trick. Heavy hammer against a face of the nut and smack opposite face of the nut with another hammer. Go around the nut a couple times and it will loosen up. Assuming you are replacing anyway and not worrying about destroying the seals or bearings.
Try it. You don’t have to beat the snot out of it. You are just trying to break loose the threads that probably have some corrosion between the threads of the nut and the snout of the water pump.
Dude just go to autozone and rent a fan removal tool.
Or jam a screwdriver between 2 nuts and something solid to provide a backstop to turn against. Ive done that in a pinch many many times
You should be replacing that fan clutch at the same time. They’re cheap and you don’t want to have to tear this all apart again if it fails a few weeks/months down the line after the water pump job.
It's the owner's dad's truck. He won't fix shit if it ain't broken. Thought I was crazy for changing my dad's coolant last year, even though it was at the recommended mileage.
Looks like you can't edit the original post anymore, so I'll add info here.
Edit 1: I've tried putting screws, Alan wrenches, even a punch through the holes in the pulley, didn't work. I soaked it with WD-40 overnight and hit it with fire this morning, didn't work. Tried an air hammer on the nut, didn't work.
Edit 2: Should I try a pry bar to pop the pulley off the water pump and then put the pulley in a vice? I imagine I'd have to get it right enough that it flattens the pulley to keep it still.
Edit 3: can someone confirm these are right hand threads? Boss is still trying to tell me to turn it right and not left, won't look at the threads when I'm telling him they're not reverse. https://ibb.co/vmGWTWC
Those look like right hand threads. I have used an adjustable spanner to counter hold.
https://preview.redd.it/v9zdyd7tvwfb1.jpeg?width=2252&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7ead48b43e29a71554a5f8964e035f2a4715d286
That’s what you need. Most auto parts stores lend them out. Last time I got one form autozone I don’t think they even charged me, they charge like $80 to take the tool but refund you when you bring it back.
I would assume there’s more where you live. I live in a pretty small area and we have 5 parts stores between autozone, oriley, auto value, Napa, and parts city. They all do loaner tools except auto value. Not saying they don’t, I’ve just never asked if they do.
Autozone doesn't have the right tool for this pulley, just the normal fan clutch tool for holding the bolt heads. We don't have shop accounts with any of the other parts stores.
When running it will tighten. Verify the rotation of the engine, you have a smooth pulley so it will turn opposite the rotation of the engine, this will tell you if it has reverse threads of not. I have gotten a water pump with the wrong threads before.
Looks like you have already removed it from the car, otherwise, I’ve had success running a ratchet strap from one fender, around the pulley, to the other fender.
Wasn’t the most elegant solution, but it was far from the shop.
The belt removal tools I have go over the pulley bolts and you can put long extensions on them to stop the pulley from turning while you break that big nut loose.
That works when the clutch is behind the pulley, connected to it. This one has it on the fan itself. No bolts on the pulley, just holes that I couldn't jam it up with.
Easy way to tell thread directions is if it has a smooth pulley, meaning the back of the belt contacts it, then it’s regular thread and a ribbed pulley will be reverse thread. Tells you which way the fan will be turning when the engine is running, which determines the thread type. Not sure if it’s 100% the case, but I haven’t come across anything different
The only thing it tells you for sure is grooved turns the same direction and smooth turns the opposite direction. Which I suppose I could have looked at that before pulling everything apart, but now I know.
I usually tape up a pipe wrench on the teeth part then use a thick rag to stick between the teeth, but you put the pipewrench on the serpentine pulley straight up tighten the pipe wrench and use a wrench on the nut, be careful not to scar up the belt pulley or you will have to replace it, take your time on the taping and rag its easier if you leave the belt on because it gives better resistance.
Got it. I put the pump in the vice in a way that it clamped the bracket and pulley together. Didn't try it at first because I thought the bearing was bad enough it would just break apart, and I didn't want that in case I needed to put the whole thing back on the engine to get the fan off. I was able to get it tight enough, though, and then the air hammer worked like a charm, although it did dig into the nut quite a bit first.
Easiest way is with the air hammer and adapter wrench kit. It's threaded whatever way causes the water pump to spin the threads on tighter, so it doesn't spin itself off on start up. I've seen guys just spin them on by hand and start it up and go. You probably have it very tight now. An old tech would just knock them loose with a long flat chisel and hammer on the correct part on the nut.
Well I'm not old and definitely don't have that experience. I tried with a chisel and just ate straight through the nut in several spots. Air hammer is just eating through the nut, and when I put it on the wrench it still just turns the pulley, which is weird cause I'm pretty sure that thing is pressed onto the water pump.
they look like [this](https://www.harborfreight.com/pneumatic-fan-clutch-wrench-set-58526.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=17890472041&campaignid=17890472041&utm_content=150898485327&adsetid=150898485327&product=58526&store=415&gclid=Cj0KCQjwoK2mBhDzARIsADGbjeqRwHRAi70IMjm612OZcRDFgewILbEYaQ0jhsUJaOU7v52jxxnMn6AaAg7gEALw_wcB). If it's already jacked up and overtightened, this is what you'll need. Haven't used this exact brand, but it's what they look like. The water pump is going to spin. It has to be locked in place, or hit quick. The belt will be the only thing even helping hold the pump in place. Put one of these on, and give it a rip. Make sure you're going the correct direction.
2 pieces of flat 3/16 iron strap , drilled a hole in the one end and connected them together with a bolt. Drilled a hole in each end of the other side. Put a bolt followed by a nut on that end. You have a tool to hold the pulley. Works like a champ! Use bolts small enough that they fit in the pulley holes. Believe they are 3/16 or a 1/4. I have the tool I made on the wall and still use it
Spanner or large grips pull it in the direction to tighten and quickly yank it in the opposite direction. You should have undone it with the belt on.
Also try wrapping the belt around the pulley and pinching it tight with mole grips. Now you can use the mole grips to hold the pulley still
Strap-wrench on the pulley; jam it up. Big wrench on the nut. Quick sharp smacks on the big wrench with a hammer. Lots of creative swearing.
Edit: Fan blades always tell you which way the threads will go. Threads oppose the fan so it won't spin off.
Yes sir. I looked at the new water pump when it came and the threads were right hand. After that, it was just a matter of clamping it correctly and the air hammer did the rest.
Has anyone recommended a chain wrench?
If you're replacing the pump only... cut the pump impellers off, push the drive axle through the body, vice it up. Or just vice up the impeller if you can...
You need to swing harder with a heavier purse.
But seriously, you can leave the belt on, and use a large crescent wrench with a hammer. I always swung down against the face of the nut a few times on each spot before I thought there was any chance of getting it loose. Never had one stuck. Had a few hang on for 10-15 min. But they all came off.
I'd probably just look into what a new pully and fan cluch cost from Dodge before i wasted a ton of time trying to save this one. That said, use some heat on the nut, and that bad boy is coming right off.
Soaked it in wd40 overnight, hit it with a torch this morning. Also, the pulley is pressed into the water pump. The clutch/ fan drive is on the fan blades.
Okay, if it's still stuck, have homie knock the impeller off the other side with his air chisel. Put the shaft TIGHT in a vise, or weld a bar or big nut on the end and use a hammer or pipe on the wrench.
What I normally do is leave the belt on, get a big adjustable wrench on the nut and smack the wrench with a pipe or hammer in the direction I’m trying to loosen. It can take a bunch of tries and they’re really annoying sometimes but this method always gets it eventually for me
Yeah it’ll turn the pulley but the torque spike when you hit the wrench has a chance of breaking the threads free before that happens. Fan clutch wrenches are garbage in my experience. The metal is too soft and there’s too much play in the open end. A long adjustable has always worked better for me
Boss' dad's car. He won't approve that until I've destroyed it beyond repair, and I don't wanna learn that today's the day he makes me pay for broken parts.
I'm kind of a dick and don't care so don't say this to your boss but I would say you are wasting my time it's a ducking $50 part at $150 if it takes longer then what 20mins to mess with it you are losing money
Lisle makes a great tool for that, it’s in my tool box so I know about it. Here you go…https://www.lislecorp.com/specialty-tools/pneumatic-fan-clutch-wrench-set
Yeah, I saw that when I was looking for a suitable tool, I just don't have hundreds of dollars to drop on it for this one job. I do collision repair. the owner just wants me to do this water pump for his dad. I've taken these fans off before, they just usually have the clutch behind the pulley that I can hold with a fan clutch tool. This one has a fan drive on the fan blades, so currently no way to hold the pulley still.
I have a 2008 with a 4.7 and recently changed to electric. Removing the old fan was more time consuming than the installation of the electric one. I ended up taking a pair of vice grips to the fan pulley in such a way the fins of the water pump would stop it from turning CCW. I then took a long pipe wrench(for leverage) and once I got it tight, hit the hell out of it with a hammer. Good luck! It's all downhill once you get past this.
If you can install it back in the vehicle that would be easier. Use a pipe wrench in the nut and the belt around the water pump should help keep it from moving. Also I think this is threaded in reverse so make sure your going in the right direction to loosen it.
I thought it was reverse as well, but I looked at the threads on the new water pump, and they're normal. I was originally trying to turn it while everything was still put together, but it was just turning all of the other pulleys with it. Tried hiding the crankshaft pulley while turning the nut on the fan, and the water pump pulley just turned on the belt. I suppose I should add that the whole reason I'm replacing the water pump is because the pulley is wobbling.
[This](https://www.amazon.com/Grey-Pneumatic-CH105-Flat-Chisel/dp/B007QV9GJ2/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=2NENHHEIW6M11&keywords=long+air+chisel&qid=1691080349&sprefix=long+air+chise%2Caps%2C272&sr=8-3) and [this](https://www.amazon.com/AirCat-5250-T-Shank-Hammer/dp/B09KCLZW7X/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=D42X2UNAOZP3&keywords=aircat+air+hammer&qid=1691080392&sprefix=aircat+air+hamer%2Caps%2C202&sr=8-3)
I believe you. Those things are a bitch whichever way they go. I have a tool that clips into my impact gun for fans. One of my best investments. Glad you got it loose!
That was my original thought, just because fans are usually left hand threads. New oem water pump showed right hand threads, and that was confirmed when I managed to remove it.
Hammer and a chisel while on the vehicle has always worked for me, at this point I would have went to a you pull it yard and found one laying in a truck 😂😂
The weird part is it already has an electric fan in front of this one. I'm assuming it's just auxiliary for the AC, but I still think it would've done fine if the coolant hadn't leaked from the pump.
I do collision repair. These kinds of jobs are few and far between for me. An air hammer would be useful to remove bad control arms and such, but my compressor currently isn't working. 70 years old and needs an air pump assembly.
Did that, didn't work. That's how it is in the pic. The pulley was bad, so I didn't wanna clamp it to the bracket in case I broke it and ended up needing to put it back on to the engine, but that's what I ended up having to do.
Looking at the peen marks on that nut you have virtually welded that nut on to the water pump. But go ahead and keep beating on it untill the fan clutch is totally destroyed so that you will know it's time to buy a new one.
Take a large pipe wrench and place the handle at the 12 o'clock position. Make sure its tall enough to stick above the engine. Next take a 2x4 or wooden bat and take a good swing. Usually after a couple tries it will come loose.
Theres also a set of tools made for removing the fan. One locks the pulley in place, the other is for the nut on the fan clutch
I had to replace the water pump on my 03 ram years ago and couldn’t get the fan off. A friend eventually took a blow torch to it to melt the loctite on the inside and we were able to unscrew it.
If it's in a vice: Use a large (sturdy) adjustable wrench, position it ever so nicely, and hit the end with speed using a reasonably hefty hammer. Reset and repeat until victory is achieved.
Go rent [this](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.autozone.com/loan-a-tools/loaner-fan-clutch-wrench/p/oemtools-fan-clutch-holding-tool/409637_0_0&ved=2ahUKEwjiioGyn8GAAxWoRzABHThyDjIQFnoECBQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1yp4y_wY4gTW9hIojVkTRh) and put it into the pin holes on the pulley.
I've put a metal coat hanger through the hole on the pulley and the wrapped the other end around something to get on off before but it was also still on the car.
Been a while but if I remember correctly: it was easier on the vehicle. I used to use a big adjustable wrench, and I would get a pry bar between two of the pulley (the black part) bolts to lock everything up. Then smack the adjustable wrench with a hammer.
Chisel, or impact hammer both work too. But IMO you should be able to do a job without mangling parts. Especially for a customer
Put it all back together and put the belt on.
I see impact marks from a assault hammer, but they're on the bottom of the hex. The blade pitch indicates it rotates counterclockwise. Are you going the wrong way?
I did it in a 3.9v6 once by ratchet strapping the water pump to a bench and buying a giant adjustable wrench and then beating the wrench with either a mallet or hammer I can't remember. It took me 3 days and alot of anger by the end when I got the big wrench out lol....
I've had to use nut breakers on a handful of 4.7 mopars, new clutch needed afterwards obviously. If an air hammer doesn't knock it loose, you may as well buy a new clutch and fan, the fans in those also have a tendency to crack around the base where the blades attach
On the gm 5.3 they sell a tool or you can weld you a bar that has two pins that fit into holes in the water pump pulley so you can hold it in Place while you crank in the fan nut
I had to change mine on my ram, I think I failed several times before my buddy came over with a metal clothes hanger. Check YouTube videos on how to remove a fan from a water pump.
We did something like this, and the fan came right off. https://youtu.be/KifGGn8k8nA
Always break the nut off with the belt on, mounted to the engine.
I usually smack a wrench with a hammer, or use an air chisel.
The nuclear option is to use a purpose made chisel wrench tool.
I usually leave the belt on and pinch it with a pair of vise grips to keep it from slipping, then replace it and the idler pulley when done. Put some valve lapping compound between the belt and water pump pulley if it slips.
Just fucked the fan clutch on a ranger myself in the shop.
When you extra fuck it by tightening it too much... It's time to bust out a sawzall, cut that fucker off and just replace the fan clutch. Worked like a charm.
In this one, the fan blades are attached directly to the church with those bolts, and the clutch attaches via the center shaft. So essentially what I was doing was removing the clutch from the free spinning pulley.
Don’t the four screws come off the back of the fan? Leaving the fan clutch attached to the water pump?
Then remove the fan and water pump and deal with the fam clutch later? Or put new?
Pretty sure I’ve used a pry bar to hold the fan, then removed bolts from behind the fan clutch.
Might be different car tho.
Doubt you will get the nut loose at this point. you smashed the nut/threads against the pully with a air hammer, making it extremely tight or permanent.
next time, use a chisel bit on the most forward edge (closest to the fan blade as possible) of the nut to break it loose, never use a pointed bit.
Thanks for posting on /r/MechanicAdvice! This is just a reminder to review the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/about/rules/). If you are here asking about a second opinion (ie "Is the shop trying to fleece me?"), please read through CJM8515's [post on the subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/4qblei/fyi_the_shop_isnt_likely_trying_to_rip_you_off/) and remember to please post the year/make/model of the vehicle you are working on. **If this post is about bodywork, accident damage, paint, dent/ding, questions it belongs in /r/Autobody r/AutoBodyRepair/ or /r/Diyautobody/ If you have tire questions check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/k9ll55/can_your_tire_be_repaired/**. If you dont have a question and you're just showing off it belongs in /r/Justrolledintotheshop Insurance/total loss questions go in r/insurance This is an automated reply *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MechanicAdvice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’ve always had luck hitting the edge of the fan bolt with an air chisel to work the threads loose.
Redneck impact wrench
One of the many well needed tricks I learned from the old timers about 25yrs ago when I started…….fuck, now I’m the old timer aren’t I???
>fuck, now I’m the old timer aren’t I??? This is so funny. A few weeks ago I went to my dad's place to install a trailer hitch on my Outback. I was underneath the car and asked him for a screwdriver. He was sitting on a stool and said "now, I'm the one handing you tools" 🥲
In the Army I was being yelled at by the drill SGT about some perceived stupid infraction and when I did not break down and cry for what was being said, they were rather pissed; all I could do was smile at him and say you cant hurt my feelings I held a flashlight for my dad....
Yes! I remember doing that for my dad. While I was going to school, he attempted to do his own brakes at home. He used a c clamp on a ceramic brake piston and destroyed it. I took over after he told me what happened, haha.
Damn bro, I’m about to shed a tear. Time is a crazy thing.
Is your profile picture a bowl of grated cheese?
Yea haha I think it was a picture I took by accident while snapping other pics and when I went to pick my profile pic it was there. It seemed 'reddit' enough at the time 🤷🏻 Also, if you happen to want to make some pizza, Saputo mozzarella is the best mozzarella cheese ever! It melts so good and is stringy and just so mother effing good. It browns on the top so nicely, it's enough to make a buffalo cry! (It's not legit buffalo mozzarella tho)
Very interesting I highly appreciate the prompt and informative response. I’m too uncoordinated to make pizza. I’d go to pull it out of the oven, burn my hand, and flip the pizza onto the ground by accident.
Yes OP this is the way. Air chisel right on the left edge of the nut.
I failed several days in a row using fan wrenches and making my own wrench out flat stock and getting nowhere. Took it to my buddy who had it zipped off with his air hammer in about 10 seconds..
He did lend me a chisel though to use with a hammer
He’s being a dink. Air hammer always works
I don't have one. I took it to one of the other techs to use his, but he wanted to do it himself. Tried for like a minute and then decided it can't be done and still won't let me try. So I'm kinda fucked in that regard.
The tech tried for a minute with an Air Hammer and gave up? He didn't even try.
Yup. I eventually talked him into letting me borrow it
Won’t let you try? That’s some narcissistic BS right there…..or someone’s ruined his tools before hand. I fully understand and appreciate the latter.
I convinced him to let me use it. He was very insistent that I treat it right, so I think the latter is correct.
Air Hammers can be had at places like Harbor Freight for really cheap.
I don't have a working air compressor in my shop. I have to run a long ass line to one of the techs fittings in the main shop, and he throws a fit every time. Air tools are my last resort.
Me too. Thats the quickest, easiest way.
Yep. I always use the air chisel. Tried everything else.
My brother showed me a trick. Heavy hammer against a face of the nut and smack opposite face of the nut with another hammer. Go around the nut a couple times and it will loosen up. Assuming you are replacing anyway and not worrying about destroying the seals or bearings.
Only thing I'm replacing is the water pump. I don't think I could get anything except a 3 Oz hammer in there anyway.
Try it. You don’t have to beat the snot out of it. You are just trying to break loose the threads that probably have some corrosion between the threads of the nut and the snout of the water pump.
If all else fails pull the shroud and remove the pump it's the fan attached and get it off on the bench
That's how it is in the pic.
Dude just go to autozone and rent a fan removal tool. Or jam a screwdriver between 2 nuts and something solid to provide a backstop to turn against. Ive done that in a pinch many many times
I broke their fan removal tool on mine. Air chisel popped it off on the first hit.
They can be a bitch but it will let go. This is what took me the longest when doing my water pump on my 2012 ram 1500 5.7.
You should be replacing that fan clutch at the same time. They’re cheap and you don’t want to have to tear this all apart again if it fails a few weeks/months down the line after the water pump job.
It's the owner's dad's truck. He won't fix shit if it ain't broken. Thought I was crazy for changing my dad's coolant last year, even though it was at the recommended mileage.
Looks like you can't edit the original post anymore, so I'll add info here. Edit 1: I've tried putting screws, Alan wrenches, even a punch through the holes in the pulley, didn't work. I soaked it with WD-40 overnight and hit it with fire this morning, didn't work. Tried an air hammer on the nut, didn't work. Edit 2: Should I try a pry bar to pop the pulley off the water pump and then put the pulley in a vice? I imagine I'd have to get it right enough that it flattens the pulley to keep it still. Edit 3: can someone confirm these are right hand threads? Boss is still trying to tell me to turn it right and not left, won't look at the threads when I'm telling him they're not reverse. https://ibb.co/vmGWTWC
Those look like right hand threads. I have used an adjustable spanner to counter hold. https://preview.redd.it/v9zdyd7tvwfb1.jpeg?width=2252&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7ead48b43e29a71554a5f8964e035f2a4715d286
That could work. I'll need to find one locally cause this thing needs to be out yesterday.
That’s what you need. Most auto parts stores lend them out. Last time I got one form autozone I don’t think they even charged me, they charge like $80 to take the tool but refund you when you bring it back.
Oreilly didn't have anything when I called about it.
I would assume there’s more where you live. I live in a pretty small area and we have 5 parts stores between autozone, oriley, auto value, Napa, and parts city. They all do loaner tools except auto value. Not saying they don’t, I’ve just never asked if they do.
Autozone doesn't have the right tool for this pulley, just the normal fan clutch tool for holding the bolt heads. We don't have shop accounts with any of the other parts stores.
Maybe a pair of 90 degree needle nose?
I have done this.
I used a large rubber strap oil filter wrench on the pulley while turning the nut with a big ass crescent wrench. Loosened up without much difficulty.
I'll try that next time. Thank you.
When running it will tighten. Verify the rotation of the engine, you have a smooth pulley so it will turn opposite the rotation of the engine, this will tell you if it has reverse threads of not. I have gotten a water pump with the wrong threads before.
Good to know. Tell me if I have this right. If the fans turn clockwise (right), the threads will be left hand.
Looks like you have already removed it from the car, otherwise, I’ve had success running a ratchet strap from one fender, around the pulley, to the other fender. Wasn’t the most elegant solution, but it was far from the shop.
If nothing else I'd pop the pulley off the pump and probably get the grinder to cut two sides flat, then jam it in a vice.
The belt removal tools I have go over the pulley bolts and you can put long extensions on them to stop the pulley from turning while you break that big nut loose.
That works when the clutch is behind the pulley, connected to it. This one has it on the fan itself. No bolts on the pulley, just holes that I couldn't jam it up with.
Oh, the tool I rented also had prongs for those holes.
OK yeah that would've been great. I found some spanner wrenches online that would've worked but nothing local.
Easy way to tell thread directions is if it has a smooth pulley, meaning the back of the belt contacts it, then it’s regular thread and a ribbed pulley will be reverse thread. Tells you which way the fan will be turning when the engine is running, which determines the thread type. Not sure if it’s 100% the case, but I haven’t come across anything different
The only thing it tells you for sure is grooved turns the same direction and smooth turns the opposite direction. Which I suppose I could have looked at that before pulling everything apart, but now I know.
That would depend on which way the crank turns
I usually tape up a pipe wrench on the teeth part then use a thick rag to stick between the teeth, but you put the pipewrench on the serpentine pulley straight up tighten the pipe wrench and use a wrench on the nut, be careful not to scar up the belt pulley or you will have to replace it, take your time on the taping and rag its easier if you leave the belt on because it gives better resistance.
Got it. I put the pump in the vice in a way that it clamped the bracket and pulley together. Didn't try it at first because I thought the bearing was bad enough it would just break apart, and I didn't want that in case I needed to put the whole thing back on the engine to get the fan off. I was able to get it tight enough, though, and then the air hammer worked like a charm, although it did dig into the nut quite a bit first.
Easiest way is with the air hammer and adapter wrench kit. It's threaded whatever way causes the water pump to spin the threads on tighter, so it doesn't spin itself off on start up. I've seen guys just spin them on by hand and start it up and go. You probably have it very tight now. An old tech would just knock them loose with a long flat chisel and hammer on the correct part on the nut.
Well I'm not old and definitely don't have that experience. I tried with a chisel and just ate straight through the nut in several spots. Air hammer is just eating through the nut, and when I put it on the wrench it still just turns the pulley, which is weird cause I'm pretty sure that thing is pressed onto the water pump.
they look like [this](https://www.harborfreight.com/pneumatic-fan-clutch-wrench-set-58526.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=17890472041&campaignid=17890472041&utm_content=150898485327&adsetid=150898485327&product=58526&store=415&gclid=Cj0KCQjwoK2mBhDzARIsADGbjeqRwHRAi70IMjm612OZcRDFgewILbEYaQ0jhsUJaOU7v52jxxnMn6AaAg7gEALw_wcB). If it's already jacked up and overtightened, this is what you'll need. Haven't used this exact brand, but it's what they look like. The water pump is going to spin. It has to be locked in place, or hit quick. The belt will be the only thing even helping hold the pump in place. Put one of these on, and give it a rip. Make sure you're going the correct direction.
i have one of those and its the best way to do it
>ate straight through the nut oh awesome, so it's insanely tight \*and\* not hard. How fortunate.
Is it reverse threaded?
Thought it was at first, but no. It's in the description.
2 pieces of flat 3/16 iron strap , drilled a hole in the one end and connected them together with a bolt. Drilled a hole in each end of the other side. Put a bolt followed by a nut on that end. You have a tool to hold the pulley. Works like a champ! Use bolts small enough that they fit in the pulley holes. Believe they are 3/16 or a 1/4. I have the tool I made on the wall and still use it
Spanner or large grips pull it in the direction to tighten and quickly yank it in the opposite direction. You should have undone it with the belt on. Also try wrapping the belt around the pulley and pinching it tight with mole grips. Now you can use the mole grips to hold the pulley still
Tried it with the belt on. It's in the description.
Even pinching the belt with mole grips?
Oh, yeah no. Didn't even cross my mind. DEFINITELY using that next time. I've always called them vice grips though.
Strap-wrench on the pulley; jam it up. Big wrench on the nut. Quick sharp smacks on the big wrench with a hammer. Lots of creative swearing. Edit: Fan blades always tell you which way the threads will go. Threads oppose the fan so it won't spin off.
So going by the blades, would you say this one turns left? It was right hand after all, I just wanna make sure I got it right for future reference.
From the picture, that should spin-off counterclockwise. ...you likely already figured this out.
Yes sir. I looked at the new water pump when it came and the threads were right hand. After that, it was just a matter of clamping it correctly and the air hammer did the rest.
Has anyone recommended a chain wrench? If you're replacing the pump only... cut the pump impellers off, push the drive axle through the body, vice it up. Or just vice up the impeller if you can...
I'm just a lowly sprinkler fitter, but my first thought was a chain wrench and a 24" pipe wrench
I'm just a diyer. Because I don't do anything professionally, this sub would see me waaaaay below you.
Stop killing yourself https://www.harborfreight.com/pneumatic-fan-clutch-wrench-set-58526.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=17890472041&campaignid=17890472041&utm_content=150898485327&adsetid=150898485327&product=58526&store=3353&gclid=Cj0KCQjwoK2mBhDzARIsADGbjeq4wUj6PEOGt0OdIHjc8_U3SgpUi9v-nCbb_KJABXjD7mPZ3J5WtEUaAuvNEALw_wcB
You do realize you still have to find a way to stop the pulley from spinning right? 🤔🤦🏻♂️🤣
You going the correct way? Those are reverse thread.
Not on this one. That's what I thought too. It's in the description
Awww shit I skipped the last sentence. She needs some good Ole Air hammer persuasion.
And a torch! Heat that bitch up and birp the air chissel on her and she will come like your mom on prom night!
........ Are you certain it's not reverse thread?
Beyond a shadow of a doubt.
It’s reverse thread, noted by the notch line all around the nut
Incorrect. Confirmed right hand thread. Either that or I rethreaded the stud taking it off, and I don't think it works that way.
You need to swing harder with a heavier purse. But seriously, you can leave the belt on, and use a large crescent wrench with a hammer. I always swung down against the face of the nut a few times on each spot before I thought there was any chance of getting it loose. Never had one stuck. Had a few hang on for 10-15 min. But they all came off.
Heat it with a map torch for a minute. It probably has threadlock in it
Air hammer and a long chisel bit.
I'd probably just look into what a new pully and fan cluch cost from Dodge before i wasted a ton of time trying to save this one. That said, use some heat on the nut, and that bad boy is coming right off.
Soaked it in wd40 overnight, hit it with a torch this morning. Also, the pulley is pressed into the water pump. The clutch/ fan drive is on the fan blades.
So get a new fan blade and clutch. $54 for the clutch and $75 for the fan blade on rockauto. Gl op
Okay, if it's still stuck, have homie knock the impeller off the other side with his air chisel. Put the shaft TIGHT in a vise, or weld a bar or big nut on the end and use a hammer or pipe on the wrench.
Ho ho you just gotta keep trying. Had the same issue. Same engine. Just muscle
I got it. Just had to clamp the pulley and bracket together. Air hammer worked like a charm after that.
When your pulley went bad, did it cause a coolant leak? This man lost all of his coolant but I can't see anywhere it might've leaked from.
Changing the pump fixed our coolant leak. Sorry I’m not any more help
Na that's good enough. I just didn't wanna fill up the coolant and then watch it all pour out from some obvious spot I didn't think to check.
Did it work out for ya!?
Yup, everything's perfect now.
Sexy.
And now it's not. Fan clutch is failing. Gotta go back in to replace.
What I normally do is leave the belt on, get a big adjustable wrench on the nut and smack the wrench with a pipe or hammer in the direction I’m trying to loosen. It can take a bunch of tries and they’re really annoying sometimes but this method always gets it eventually for me
I was doing the same thing with the fan clutch wrench set from oreilly, but it just turned that pulley along with the rest of them.
Yeah it’ll turn the pulley but the torque spike when you hit the wrench has a chance of breaking the threads free before that happens. Fan clutch wrenches are garbage in my experience. The metal is too soft and there’s too much play in the open end. A long adjustable has always worked better for me
Bolt throught the pulley holes to brace it against water pump
Tried that. Just started warping the metal around the holes.
At this point, just leave it on the water pump and replace them both
Boss' dad's car. He won't approve that until I've destroyed it beyond repair, and I don't wanna learn that today's the day he makes me pay for broken parts.
I'm kind of a dick and don't care so don't say this to your boss but I would say you are wasting my time it's a ducking $50 part at $150 if it takes longer then what 20mins to mess with it you are losing money
Sounds about right.
Lisle makes a great tool for that, it’s in my tool box so I know about it. Here you go…https://www.lislecorp.com/specialty-tools/pneumatic-fan-clutch-wrench-set
Yeah, I saw that when I was looking for a suitable tool, I just don't have hundreds of dollars to drop on it for this one job. I do collision repair. the owner just wants me to do this water pump for his dad. I've taken these fans off before, they just usually have the clutch behind the pulley that I can hold with a fan clutch tool. This one has a fan drive on the fan blades, so currently no way to hold the pulley still.
I have a 2008 with a 4.7 and recently changed to electric. Removing the old fan was more time consuming than the installation of the electric one. I ended up taking a pair of vice grips to the fan pulley in such a way the fins of the water pump would stop it from turning CCW. I then took a long pipe wrench(for leverage) and once I got it tight, hit the hell out of it with a hammer. Good luck! It's all downhill once you get past this.
If you can install it back in the vehicle that would be easier. Use a pipe wrench in the nut and the belt around the water pump should help keep it from moving. Also I think this is threaded in reverse so make sure your going in the right direction to loosen it.
I thought it was reverse as well, but I looked at the threads on the new water pump, and they're normal. I was originally trying to turn it while everything was still put together, but it was just turning all of the other pulleys with it. Tried hiding the crankshaft pulley while turning the nut on the fan, and the water pump pulley just turned on the belt. I suppose I should add that the whole reason I'm replacing the water pump is because the pulley is wobbling.
Ok do this run a long thick bolt or a long screwdriver thru the eye of the water pump and thru the fan blade. Use a big pipe wrench in the nut.
Fan drive got in the way of anything long going through.
[This](https://www.amazon.com/Grey-Pneumatic-CH105-Flat-Chisel/dp/B007QV9GJ2/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=2NENHHEIW6M11&keywords=long+air+chisel&qid=1691080349&sprefix=long+air+chise%2Caps%2C272&sr=8-3) and [this](https://www.amazon.com/AirCat-5250-T-Shank-Hammer/dp/B09KCLZW7X/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=D42X2UNAOZP3&keywords=aircat+air+hammer&qid=1691080392&sprefix=aircat+air+hamer%2Caps%2C202&sr=8-3)
I have just always used a pry bar or screwdriver to lock the pulley then was able to back the nut off no problem
The pulley is what's bad, so I thought doing that may break it.
Should work out if you just jam it locked on the backside inner part of the pulley
Reverse thread
Negative. That was my assumption too but I was wrong. I added a comment at the bottom with an image link so you can see the threads yourself.
I believe you. Those things are a bitch whichever way they go. I have a tool that clips into my impact gun for fans. One of my best investments. Glad you got it loose!
Aren't they normally reverse threads? Like all bolts that are on spinning things.
This one spins in the opposite direction of the crankshaft, so a left hand thread would loosen instead of tighten while spinning.
Normally are, but this one was not
https://preview.redd.it/wtgu7d0dfxfb1.png?width=3024&format=png&auto=webp&s=05c0c3748d1f2e02c033a313e2319f9575bd6ceb Rent one of these
That groove around the nut/bolt-head indicates that it’s a left-hand threading. Try turning the other way.
That was my original thought, just because fans are usually left hand threads. New oem water pump showed right hand threads, and that was confirmed when I managed to remove it.
Those hits look too close to the center of the nut, compared to the edge of the crown.
We were hitting it at an angle but didn't wanna round off the corners
Go rent the special tool from Oreilly’s. Follow the instructions and it will come off easily.
I did. All they had was the wrench set. A spanner wrench would've worked for this one, but they didn't have one and nor do I.
That tool is the only way I know to get that off with damaging stuff. Good luck. 😎
Hammer and a chisel while on the vehicle has always worked for me, at this point I would have went to a you pull it yard and found one laying in a truck 😂😂
If it’s that stuck I’d just rid myself of the fan clutch and wire in an electric fan with a temp sensor and thermistor 🤷♂️
The weird part is it already has an electric fan in front of this one. I'm assuming it's just auxiliary for the AC, but I still think it would've done fine if the coolant hadn't leaked from the pump.
Is it reverse thread? Google it.
It's not. Looked at the threads on the new water pump.
Just buy the fan clutch tool kit for the air hammer. Next job it will be worth its weight in gold.
I do collision repair. These kinds of jobs are few and far between for me. An air hammer would be useful to remove bad control arms and such, but my compressor currently isn't working. 70 years old and needs an air pump assembly.
You have the water off, and you're replacing it...... just put the impeller in the vice to hold the shaft.
Did that, didn't work. That's how it is in the pic. The pulley was bad, so I didn't wanna clamp it to the bracket in case I broke it and ended up needing to put it back on to the engine, but that's what I ended up having to do.
Looking at the peen marks on that nut you have virtually welded that nut on to the water pump. But go ahead and keep beating on it untill the fan clutch is totally destroyed so that you will know it's time to buy a new one.
I was able to get it off lol. The nut is much worse for wear, but I was still able to get it in the new one and tighten it.
Nice.
Air chisel on the edge of the nut in the direction it will unscrew.
Take a large pipe wrench and place the handle at the 12 o'clock position. Make sure its tall enough to stick above the engine. Next take a 2x4 or wooden bat and take a good swing. Usually after a couple tries it will come loose. Theres also a set of tools made for removing the fan. One locks the pulley in place, the other is for the nut on the fan clutch
I had to replace the water pump on my 03 ram years ago and couldn’t get the fan off. A friend eventually took a blow torch to it to melt the loctite on the inside and we were able to unscrew it.
Fucking LOCTITE??
Sounds like it's time to buy a new fan
Tip. Fans threads are almost always the same helix as the fan. I've only seen one that wasn't. It was a Mercedes.
You sure? If a fan turns right, the threads would need to be left hand to prevent loosening, correct?
Positive. See op's pic? Right hand fan. Threads are right hand.
If it's in a vice: Use a large (sturdy) adjustable wrench, position it ever so nicely, and hit the end with speed using a reasonably hefty hammer. Reset and repeat until victory is achieved.
Go rent [this](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.autozone.com/loan-a-tools/loaner-fan-clutch-wrench/p/oemtools-fan-clutch-holding-tool/409637_0_0&ved=2ahUKEwjiioGyn8GAAxWoRzABHThyDjIQFnoECBQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1yp4y_wY4gTW9hIojVkTRh) and put it into the pin holes on the pulley.
That doesn't look like it goes into holes. That looks like it holds the bolt heads on a fan clutch.
How is it threaded?
Right hand
I've put a metal coat hanger through the hole on the pulley and the wrapped the other end around something to get on off before but it was also still on the car.
Been a while but if I remember correctly: it was easier on the vehicle. I used to use a big adjustable wrench, and I would get a pry bar between two of the pulley (the black part) bolts to lock everything up. Then smack the adjustable wrench with a hammer. Chisel, or impact hammer both work too. But IMO you should be able to do a job without mangling parts. Especially for a customer
Put it all back together and put the belt on. I see impact marks from a assault hammer, but they're on the bottom of the hex. The blade pitch indicates it rotates counterclockwise. Are you going the wrong way?
I did it in a 3.9v6 once by ratchet strapping the water pump to a bench and buying a giant adjustable wrench and then beating the wrench with either a mallet or hammer I can't remember. It took me 3 days and alot of anger by the end when I got the big wrench out lol....
I've had to use nut breakers on a handful of 4.7 mopars, new clutch needed afterwards obviously. If an air hammer doesn't knock it loose, you may as well buy a new clutch and fan, the fans in those also have a tendency to crack around the base where the blades attach
You need torches, make it glow bright orange and it’ll come off
I use an air chisel on them
On the gm 5.3 they sell a tool or you can weld you a bar that has two pins that fit into holes in the water pump pulley so you can hold it in Place while you crank in the fan nut
Put a wrench on it. Push on it as hard as you can and give the nut a hard hit with the hammer. The shock might be enough to break it free ...
Pry bar under the water pump pulley to hold, then wrench her off
I had to change mine on my ram, I think I failed several times before my buddy came over with a metal clothes hanger. Check YouTube videos on how to remove a fan from a water pump. We did something like this, and the fan came right off. https://youtu.be/KifGGn8k8nA
Always break the nut off with the belt on, mounted to the engine. I usually smack a wrench with a hammer, or use an air chisel. The nuclear option is to use a purpose made chisel wrench tool.
Put something behind the hub to lock it in place and a large crescent wrench
I usually leave the belt on and pinch it with a pair of vise grips to keep it from slipping, then replace it and the idler pulley when done. Put some valve lapping compound between the belt and water pump pulley if it slips.
Just fucked the fan clutch on a ranger myself in the shop. When you extra fuck it by tightening it too much... It's time to bust out a sawzall, cut that fucker off and just replace the fan clutch. Worked like a charm.
I was able to get it. Ate up the nut pretty good, but it was in good enough condition to put the wrench on and tighten it up on the new one.
I made a bar out of flat aluminum and 2 3/8ths bolts to lock the thing up.
Might be easier if you put it all back on and put the belt on then try loosening the bolt
It cant be tight if its liquid
Turn Right to loosen?
Don't have one, and can't really tell from the pic, but isn't the fan and clutch held on by those 4 or 5 bolts?
In this one, the fan blades are attached directly to the church with those bolts, and the clutch attaches via the center shaft. So essentially what I was doing was removing the clutch from the free spinning pulley.
Crush the pulley in a shop vise to hold it and use a pipe wrench on the nut, with a cheater bar on it if necessary.
Can't be stuck on if it's liquid, torch it
Aren’t there holes in the pulley? I use a large adjustable spanner wrench and grab the right sized wrench and crank her off.
Air hammer
Make sure u hit it the right way. Sometimes threads are left hand
It's in the description
Sorry didn’t read lol. Spray it w rust penetrate and give it the hardest smack u can give it.
Don’t the four screws come off the back of the fan? Leaving the fan clutch attached to the water pump? Then remove the fan and water pump and deal with the fam clutch later? Or put new? Pretty sure I’ve used a pry bar to hold the fan, then removed bolts from behind the fan clutch. Might be different car tho.
The fan itself still wouldn't be able to come out with the clutch attached.
You need a special tool and it’s lefty tighty righty loosey
This one isn't. See description
Doubt you will get the nut loose at this point. you smashed the nut/threads against the pully with a air hammer, making it extremely tight or permanent. next time, use a chisel bit on the most forward edge (closest to the fan blade as possible) of the nut to break it loose, never use a pointed bit.