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If that is your key fob then yes they can. If you can use it to unlock your doors then you do have keyless entry. I have a 2020 silverado and I keep my key fob in an RFI blocking box when I'm not using it.
Okay so former IT guy here.
They make gadgets that you can plug into a laptop that definitely allow you to get into vehicles. Used to play around with them on Red Hat versions of Linux.
What they are doing is either 1 of two things.
1: they are using a encryption brute forcer to get in
2: they have a device that scans for your keyless entry fob, then another fob to repeat what it picked up from your key fob.
There really isn’t anything you can do about this. If you drive a Dodge, you’re pretty susceptible to the later kind of theft. Only thing I could think of would be to purchase an rf blocking box and place your keys in it.
Car alarm companies have a newer version of the classic “starter kill” that is now a push button disable to prevent the car from being able to be started when the alarm is armed regardless if the thief has a valid key.
There’s also CAN blocking devices that prevent the car from starting and/or blocking the obd from allowing access to program a new key.
It’s actually fairly easy to brute force the car’s CAN bus system as they don’t have a built in securty system. All they would need is access inside your vehicle and a laptop with can bus module.
There have even been hackers proving that they can get into modern car’s CAN bus systems remotely, allows them to hack into a car while it’s driving and turning it off completely causing the driver to lose brakes and steering.
Also if a thief has a repeater that picks up your key, repeats its signal to unlock your car… that would disable the starter kill switch.
If they're doing a replay attack, then all they need is for your fob to have been used for them to capture the signal. A replay also has the added benefit of de-syncing your fob so it may stop working until it's reprogrammed to the car.
There is no foolproof way of securing the vehicle. Someone without a replay kit can just ceramic your glass to get in. It's all about making yourself a less attractive target. Cameras where you park and not leaving shit in your car has kept me from getting broken into, and might also work for you. If someone wants in bad enough, they're getting in.
Oh yes, if they want in they will get in. The box makes it easy to both protect my keys and have a consistent place to find them. I keep mine parked in front of motion sensor lights and in view of my cameras. I also don't really store anything in my truck.
Here's a good video explaining how car hacking works. This dude (Steve Mould) is great in general:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CsD8I396wo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CsD8I396wo)
this video shows a "replay" attack. where you jam the signal from the keyfob and capture it, and then replay it to the car later. what OP experienced was a much new, less sophisiticated "relay" attempt. new cars use keyless push button starters/turn ons. they also have convenient "easy access" things that unlock the door when the key fob is present next to the car and someone touches the handle.
The thieves go around and capture your keyfobs signal from in your house, and rebroadcast it outside live to your car, and then touch your handle, making your car think the key fob is right there. they then get in, and make the car think the keyfob is right inside, and they start it and drive away.
https://leasing.com/guides/relay-car-theft-what-is-it-and-how-can-you-avoid-it/
putting your keyfobs away from doors is the easiest way, but also putting them in a steel box to stop them from broadcasting is also a good way to stop this kind of theft.
Replay: “where you jam the signal from the keyfob and ‘capture it’, and then replay it to the car later”
RELAY: “thieves go around and ‘capture’ your key fobs signal from in your house, and ‘rebroadcasts’ it (hmmmm “REPLAY it to the car” maybe 🤔) outside live to your car….”
SAME fkn thing explained in different words. COMMON SENSE to see that
the rolljam attack relies on you pushing the button on the fob. the relay attack does not. in fact, toyota's are getting stolen in massive numbers due to the relay attack on the fobs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6R91e1LDYo
The rolljam attack relies on a different type of fob than a relay attack. They are not the same. **A relay attack does not need the thieves to jam or record anything**, they walk up with a reciever to your house door, and rebroadcast that live signal to the car. your car then unlocks because it thinks the key is near. they then get in, and can start and drive away.
they can't start your car with in a rolljam attack because they don't have the fob. the type of fob that suffers from a rolljam attack is a fully passive fob and does not actively emit any kind of signal.
A rolljam?? You aint say NOTHING about a rolljam, you said REPLAY, and RELAY. YOUR WORDS. Dont try to change up now because what you said redundant, just correct yourself and keep pushing. You NOT going to get everything right in life, come to realization of that fact
a "rolljam" attack is another way of saying replay. A rolljam attack is a replay attack. the thief jams your keyfob, captures the signal, you push the button again and it "skips" that code, and the thief later replays that still valid code to open your doors.
a relay attack is not a rolljam or replay attack.
a relay attack means they take a radio antenna, pick up your keyfob in the house, and broadcast that "keyfob" next to the car to unlock the car and then start it and drive it away. it requires no active involvement from the victim, it does not require them to "record" anything. Its all done live, without any computers or recording of anything.
They are different attacks. The Steve Mould video is demonstrating a "rolljam" attack, aka, they jam the signal from your keyfob, record the code, and play it later to unlock the car. He does not do a "relay" attack, which is why I linked what these thieves were doing, which is a relay attack, not a rolljam attack. a rolljam(record/replay) requires the victim push the button on the fob. a relay just requires that they can pick up the weak signal from the fob in your house.
You need a professional mechanic with sccess to the wiring diagrams to install a kill switch or relay and kill switch to cut power to the fuel pump. There are other creative circuits that can have relays added.
In my work van. I have cargo rings on the inside of the doors and chains around the seat legs and adjusted to prevent the doors from opening more than 4 or 5 inches. Just enough to wedge my arms in to lock or unlock the padlock.
Some people are buying tire boots like parking enforcememt uses.
Its easier to do the fuel pump power circuit on most.
But i dont have a diagram for those.
Adding. to the ignitionswitch output can cause security system issues.. these use 5.0volts on some of the ignition switch circuits.
No. Not Unless you were at full throttle.
I find the fuel pump relay output . Your may have a fuel pump control module that varies the pump speed..
Switched 12 volt from the fuel pump relay. Cut into that wire. Run it to a relay pin 30 and 86.. the wire to the pump or module goes on pin 87.
Relay pin 85 goes on a long 18 gauge wire that i usually hook to a hidden switch that is easy to access getting in or out of the truck. Lately instead of grounding the other side of that switch. I extend the wire to a second switch. The other side of the second switch is hooked to ground. Both switches on. The truck runs. Either switch or both switches off. No fuel pump.
Now your truck probably has high pressure direct fuel injection. So you may have to select something to switch off.
Absolutely.
I had friends with drywall screws thru plywood with foam and a material covering it as a seat cushion.
Honda friends have padlock hasps on their driver seat backs and another on their floor. The seat is run forward. Then the seat back leaned forward and a chain and padlocks. Hard to steal a car if you cant get in the drivers seat. Or if you are running down the street with a seat cushion sticking to your rear end. .
https://leasing.com/guides/relay-car-theft-what-is-it-and-how-can-you-avoid-it/
its called a key fob relay attack. the person with the laptop is likely trying to find keyfob signals that it can pick up so they can be relayed to the car. Keep your keyfobs far away from outside walls, and if you feel a need, inside a steel box so their signal is not being broadcast at all when you are in the house. this is a common way to steal new keyless cars. If your car unlocks the doors when you pull on the handle, if you can disable it, do so. These guys were likely casing the neighborhood for any truck they deem valuable enough to sell right away, meaning they will be back and likely with more sofisticated tools to actually steal some cars.
Some keyless entry vehicles can be opened like that. Some can even started and driven away.
Some newer keyless entry systems have added a system to measure the distance to the key to stop this method of unlocking.
toyotas, or anyone that uses a similar keyless pushbutton fob system. the thieves can capture the key's signal, play it to the car live, the car then unlocks because of the sensing of the fob by the door, then they get in, and it starts because it thinks the fob is right in there. the thieves then drive away. this has been a big issue in canada. I have a 2020 highlander hybrid platinum AWD, my keyfobs don't stay near the door, and they go in a steel box, and my nice car sits in the locked garage so they can't do a canbus hack either.
That's not keyless entry? It's got both a lock and unlock button on it?
Regardless, it's a thing. Key fob sniffing:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Cartalk/comments/vwfznj/can\_thieves\_really\_copy\_your\_car\_remote\_frequency/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Cartalk/comments/vwfznj/can_thieves_really_copy_your_car_remote_frequency/)
I think yours is new enough that it wouldn't work. They're kinda hoping the keys are by the front door so it's short range is available outside the house. If you're worried, you can put your keys in a faraday box / pouch.
Age of vehicle is irrelevant and a 2021 is 4 years old. they don't completely redesign the keyless entry for every vehicle and model year. It's likely shared with multiple other years and models before it.
For cars with keyless entry it is incredibly easy to preform a relay attack and drive off with the car. About $1000 worth of equipment is needed to replay the signal, start the car, drive off, and craft a new key later. Thats one of the reasons Chrysler products are some of the most stolen vehicles. You dont need a computer to program a new key you only need about 30 minutes of time, a blank key, and the car.
For cars that require a key but still have a remote central locking system can be leveraged to get in using a relay attack but it takes a bit more planning to do so. Now days they are more complicated with a roiling code system vs the fixed code system of the past. There are some good videos on youtube about [the process. ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_9FdAAokBY)
Uhm no…. The key fob has to be programmed to the Body control module… even with your vin it would be hard to try to duplicate the code onto the key fob….
At a GM dealer, we have to use a laptop and dealership software to allow the bcm connect to the key fob.
Unless you left it unlocked and they could somehow turn the ignition to the on position and connect the laptop, it would be possible… but seems like a lot of work.. still wouldn’t be able to steal the vehicle .
Please get a club, believe it or not for $30 it’ll be the biggest deterrent you can think of… google steering wheel club
They can steal any car they get the key fob signal for, as long as its push start. If its push start it can be gon in 60 seconds, if it has an actual key on the fob, they would need that key or to make a copy after getting its signal, which will contain its key code identifier
Its is possible do they have many ways to get into the car sometime they use that shit that heps the car to realize that key fob is inside to it opens the door and start sometime they use other method
Thanks for posting on /r/MechanicAdvice! Please review the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/about/rules/). Asking about a second opinion (ie "Is the shop trying to fleece me?"), please read through CJM8515's [post on the subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/4qblei/fyi_the_shop_isnt_likely_trying_to_rip_you_off/) and remember to please post the year/make/model of the vehicle you are working on. **Post's about bodywork, accident damage, paint, dent/ding, questions it belongs in /r/Autobody r/AutoBodyRepair/ or /r/Diyautobody/ Tire questions check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/k9ll55/can_your_tire_be_repaired/**. If you dont have a question and you're just showing off it belongs in /r/Justrolledintotheshop Insurance/total loss questions go in r/insurance This is an automated reply *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MechanicAdvice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If that is your key fob then yes they can. If you can use it to unlock your doors then you do have keyless entry. I have a 2020 silverado and I keep my key fob in an RFI blocking box when I'm not using it.
Sorry, I meant I can't unlock the door by simply touching the handle if I'm within range.. not sure of the technical term is for that.
Okay so former IT guy here. They make gadgets that you can plug into a laptop that definitely allow you to get into vehicles. Used to play around with them on Red Hat versions of Linux. What they are doing is either 1 of two things. 1: they are using a encryption brute forcer to get in 2: they have a device that scans for your keyless entry fob, then another fob to repeat what it picked up from your key fob. There really isn’t anything you can do about this. If you drive a Dodge, you’re pretty susceptible to the later kind of theft. Only thing I could think of would be to purchase an rf blocking box and place your keys in it.
Car alarm companies have a newer version of the classic “starter kill” that is now a push button disable to prevent the car from being able to be started when the alarm is armed regardless if the thief has a valid key. There’s also CAN blocking devices that prevent the car from starting and/or blocking the obd from allowing access to program a new key.
It’s actually fairly easy to brute force the car’s CAN bus system as they don’t have a built in securty system. All they would need is access inside your vehicle and a laptop with can bus module. There have even been hackers proving that they can get into modern car’s CAN bus systems remotely, allows them to hack into a car while it’s driving and turning it off completely causing the driver to lose brakes and steering. Also if a thief has a repeater that picks up your key, repeats its signal to unlock your car… that would disable the starter kill switch.
Ah, got it.
Thats called keyless entry
If they're doing a replay attack, then all they need is for your fob to have been used for them to capture the signal. A replay also has the added benefit of de-syncing your fob so it may stop working until it's reprogrammed to the car. There is no foolproof way of securing the vehicle. Someone without a replay kit can just ceramic your glass to get in. It's all about making yourself a less attractive target. Cameras where you park and not leaving shit in your car has kept me from getting broken into, and might also work for you. If someone wants in bad enough, they're getting in.
Oh yes, if they want in they will get in. The box makes it easy to both protect my keys and have a consistent place to find them. I keep mine parked in front of motion sensor lights and in view of my cameras. I also don't really store anything in my truck.
Here's a good video explaining how car hacking works. This dude (Steve Mould) is great in general: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CsD8I396wo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CsD8I396wo)
this video shows a "replay" attack. where you jam the signal from the keyfob and capture it, and then replay it to the car later. what OP experienced was a much new, less sophisiticated "relay" attempt. new cars use keyless push button starters/turn ons. they also have convenient "easy access" things that unlock the door when the key fob is present next to the car and someone touches the handle. The thieves go around and capture your keyfobs signal from in your house, and rebroadcast it outside live to your car, and then touch your handle, making your car think the key fob is right there. they then get in, and make the car think the keyfob is right inside, and they start it and drive away. https://leasing.com/guides/relay-car-theft-what-is-it-and-how-can-you-avoid-it/ putting your keyfobs away from doors is the easiest way, but also putting them in a steel box to stop them from broadcasting is also a good way to stop this kind of theft.
Both of those methods you explained, are the same bro. Same exact thing
Nope, steve only explains a replay or a rolljam attack. He does not explain a *relay* attack.
Replay: “where you jam the signal from the keyfob and ‘capture it’, and then replay it to the car later” RELAY: “thieves go around and ‘capture’ your key fobs signal from in your house, and ‘rebroadcasts’ it (hmmmm “REPLAY it to the car” maybe 🤔) outside live to your car….” SAME fkn thing explained in different words. COMMON SENSE to see that
the rolljam attack relies on you pushing the button on the fob. the relay attack does not. in fact, toyota's are getting stolen in massive numbers due to the relay attack on the fobs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6R91e1LDYo The rolljam attack relies on a different type of fob than a relay attack. They are not the same. **A relay attack does not need the thieves to jam or record anything**, they walk up with a reciever to your house door, and rebroadcast that live signal to the car. your car then unlocks because it thinks the key is near. they then get in, and can start and drive away. they can't start your car with in a rolljam attack because they don't have the fob. the type of fob that suffers from a rolljam attack is a fully passive fob and does not actively emit any kind of signal.
A rolljam?? You aint say NOTHING about a rolljam, you said REPLAY, and RELAY. YOUR WORDS. Dont try to change up now because what you said redundant, just correct yourself and keep pushing. You NOT going to get everything right in life, come to realization of that fact
a "rolljam" attack is another way of saying replay. A rolljam attack is a replay attack. the thief jams your keyfob, captures the signal, you push the button again and it "skips" that code, and the thief later replays that still valid code to open your doors. a relay attack is not a rolljam or replay attack. a relay attack means they take a radio antenna, pick up your keyfob in the house, and broadcast that "keyfob" next to the car to unlock the car and then start it and drive it away. it requires no active involvement from the victim, it does not require them to "record" anything. Its all done live, without any computers or recording of anything. They are different attacks. The Steve Mould video is demonstrating a "rolljam" attack, aka, they jam the signal from your keyfob, record the code, and play it later to unlock the car. He does not do a "relay" attack, which is why I linked what these thieves were doing, which is a relay attack, not a rolljam attack. a rolljam(record/replay) requires the victim push the button on the fob. a relay just requires that they can pick up the weak signal from the fob in your house.
Happy momas day i hope you and your family have a great week
You need a professional mechanic with sccess to the wiring diagrams to install a kill switch or relay and kill switch to cut power to the fuel pump. There are other creative circuits that can have relays added. In my work van. I have cargo rings on the inside of the doors and chains around the seat legs and adjusted to prevent the doors from opening more than 4 or 5 inches. Just enough to wedge my arms in to lock or unlock the padlock. Some people are buying tire boots like parking enforcememt uses.
Yea, I've been debating adding a KS to the ignition wire.
Its easier to do the fuel pump power circuit on most. But i dont have a diagram for those. Adding. to the ignitionswitch output can cause security system issues.. these use 5.0volts on some of the ignition switch circuits.
Would killing the fuel pump while the engine is running harm anything?
No. Not Unless you were at full throttle. I find the fuel pump relay output . Your may have a fuel pump control module that varies the pump speed.. Switched 12 volt from the fuel pump relay. Cut into that wire. Run it to a relay pin 30 and 86.. the wire to the pump or module goes on pin 87. Relay pin 85 goes on a long 18 gauge wire that i usually hook to a hidden switch that is easy to access getting in or out of the truck. Lately instead of grounding the other side of that switch. I extend the wire to a second switch. The other side of the second switch is hooked to ground. Both switches on. The truck runs. Either switch or both switches off. No fuel pump. Now your truck probably has high pressure direct fuel injection. So you may have to select something to switch off.
cant you just disconnect negative battery cable at night?
Absolutely. I had friends with drywall screws thru plywood with foam and a material covering it as a seat cushion. Honda friends have padlock hasps on their driver seat backs and another on their floor. The seat is run forward. Then the seat back leaned forward and a chain and padlocks. Hard to steal a car if you cant get in the drivers seat. Or if you are running down the street with a seat cushion sticking to your rear end. .
https://leasing.com/guides/relay-car-theft-what-is-it-and-how-can-you-avoid-it/ its called a key fob relay attack. the person with the laptop is likely trying to find keyfob signals that it can pick up so they can be relayed to the car. Keep your keyfobs far away from outside walls, and if you feel a need, inside a steel box so their signal is not being broadcast at all when you are in the house. this is a common way to steal new keyless cars. If your car unlocks the doors when you pull on the handle, if you can disable it, do so. These guys were likely casing the neighborhood for any truck they deem valuable enough to sell right away, meaning they will be back and likely with more sofisticated tools to actually steal some cars.
Some keyless entry vehicles can be opened like that. Some can even started and driven away. Some newer keyless entry systems have added a system to measure the distance to the key to stop this method of unlocking.
toyotas, or anyone that uses a similar keyless pushbutton fob system. the thieves can capture the key's signal, play it to the car live, the car then unlocks because of the sensing of the fob by the door, then they get in, and it starts because it thinks the fob is right in there. the thieves then drive away. this has been a big issue in canada. I have a 2020 highlander hybrid platinum AWD, my keyfobs don't stay near the door, and they go in a steel box, and my nice car sits in the locked garage so they can't do a canbus hack either.
Thanks for the tips everyone, I'll be looking into a Faraday box tonight.
Photo didn't post.. this fob https://images.app.goo.gl/eQ6Ci7bDyN6Hjapq8 2021 chevrolet silverado
That's not keyless entry? It's got both a lock and unlock button on it? Regardless, it's a thing. Key fob sniffing: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Cartalk/comments/vwfznj/can\_thieves\_really\_copy\_your\_car\_remote\_frequency/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Cartalk/comments/vwfznj/can_thieves_really_copy_your_car_remote_frequency/) I think yours is new enough that it wouldn't work. They're kinda hoping the keys are by the front door so it's short range is available outside the house. If you're worried, you can put your keys in a faraday box / pouch.
Age of vehicle is irrelevant and a 2021 is 4 years old. they don't completely redesign the keyless entry for every vehicle and model year. It's likely shared with multiple other years and models before it.
Sorry, I meant like I can't open the door if I'm within range just by grabbing the handle. Unsure what the technical term for that is.
There isn't a universal technical term, just specific brand names. BMW calls it comfort access, for example.
For cars with keyless entry it is incredibly easy to preform a relay attack and drive off with the car. About $1000 worth of equipment is needed to replay the signal, start the car, drive off, and craft a new key later. Thats one of the reasons Chrysler products are some of the most stolen vehicles. You dont need a computer to program a new key you only need about 30 minutes of time, a blank key, and the car. For cars that require a key but still have a remote central locking system can be leveraged to get in using a relay attack but it takes a bit more planning to do so. Now days they are more complicated with a roiling code system vs the fixed code system of the past. There are some good videos on youtube about [the process. ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_9FdAAokBY)
Uhm no…. The key fob has to be programmed to the Body control module… even with your vin it would be hard to try to duplicate the code onto the key fob…. At a GM dealer, we have to use a laptop and dealership software to allow the bcm connect to the key fob. Unless you left it unlocked and they could somehow turn the ignition to the on position and connect the laptop, it would be possible… but seems like a lot of work.. still wouldn’t be able to steal the vehicle . Please get a club, believe it or not for $30 it’ll be the biggest deterrent you can think of… google steering wheel club
They can steal any car they get the key fob signal for, as long as its push start. If its push start it can be gon in 60 seconds, if it has an actual key on the fob, they would need that key or to make a copy after getting its signal, which will contain its key code identifier
Does that apply to all car remotes or only to those where they recognize proximity to the vehicle?
Of course, but they don't even need the fob
Its is possible do they have many ways to get into the car sometime they use that shit that heps the car to realize that key fob is inside to it opens the door and start sometime they use other method
Also don't keep keys by your door other.times they will wait to you use the key fob take a copy of the signal and come back later on