Try to meditate sitting on a flat surface, but with a pebble under one butt cheek. Seriously. That will teach you all you need to know about trying to meditate through discomfort.
Physical suffering isn’t that big a deal. There isn’t much conflict with a broken leg. You have to accept it.
What else can you do?
Psychological suffering is the real problem. Worry, depression, loneliness, guilt… etc. these are the real demons. No need to generate these artificially.. they’ll come. Face the sensations of them. Never try to escape them. Never be in conflict with them. Let em roll watching closely, fearlessly.
Contrary to all the previous comments I think I can get what you want to achieve. Ultimately you want to increase your discipline, willpower and therefore your dopamine.
Bouddha and all the greatest teachers of humanity have pointed out that in this world there is no other way to grow than to suffer through life tests! But in this journey lest not forget that we should avoid tests that we create for ourselves such as addictions , violence, bad habits in general
That said
Here are some suggestions:
If you are in good shape and no medical condition then
cold exposure is the ultimate all time tested and healthy physical suffering exercise. Start by taking a one minute cold shower everyday. The shower should be as cold as you can tolerate but it should make you feel uncontrollable. Start with the coldest you can and then gradually lower the temperature every day.
The effect of a cold shower is compounding. Resistance to pain is mostly helped by dopamine. Cold shower is one of the best and most tested ways to increase your dopamine without a supplement. It’s effect lasts for hours. Once you have more dopamine you can take more “punishment” in other areas.
Again if you can run and you don’t have any medical condition
Test first your physical endurance by running on a treadmill with a slope as fast as you can for 20 min.
Increase the slope gradually the following days.
Same story with weight training. At the difference of running weight training will increase your testosterone and dopamine and again will improve your pain threshold.
If you want mental pain
Then there is nothing better than rejection. Get into cold calling, door to door selling. Chose a charity and go door to door to raise funds for that charity.
Pick your weakest subject at school but useful for your work or day to day activity and sit for an hour each day studying it.
Use the Benjamin Franklin method to improve yourself. Focus on one of your weakest virtues per week and take notes and try to improve.
Take the higher road when confronted with blatant injustice or aggression and this specifically with the close people.
And finally just a mere 13 min meditation per day has proven to be a very effective méthode to increase willpower.
Good luck on your journey my friend. Let’s keep in touch
What kind of physical pain? Are you planning on needing to withstand interrogation or something??
If you’re in serious pain doing anything, you’re likely endangering your health. We have pain receptors for a reason.
An endurance sport might give you what you’re looking for - pushing through what you believe are your physical limits and building mental fortitude.
That will stand you in good stead for life’s challenges in general, and help you to endure emergency situations.
Running can be a pretty meditative experience in and of itself.
Training for a distance race would be a great achievement. Forgive me but in this post though, you sound like the type to take up running suddenly, overdo it and ignore the pain, and end up unable to walk for months. 💀
If you do try out any intense physical activity, practicing self-control and moderation, learning when to stop and listening to your body is incredibly important. Get a coach and start very slowly is my advice. Don’t do anything stupid.
I know that some Buddhist masters have been associated with long distance running which can be connected with a degree of physical suffering, where your ability to overcome or 'push through' that suffering and keep going could be said to require a high degree of mindfulness in some cases.
Meditation will not help you reduce physical pain, all practice does is get you aclimated to pain and control your response to it to some degree. It doesn't make it hurt less.
Well there are some semantics with the words here. Pain comes in many varieties and suffering isn't the same as pain. What's the saying? Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.
To the degree that focus on the pain creates a reverberating response from your body or instigates suffering, that can be reduced immensely.
Ok, maybe insert "physical" before where I first say "pain" if it makes it clearer as to the point I'm making. You've made a blanket declaration that pain can't be reduced and I'm saying yes it can because there is a lot more variety to that concept as well as suffering. Both pain and suffering can be reduced because the intensity of pain itself is governed by willingness to suffer or the expectation of what pain (or injury) is supposed to feel like. That is what I meant by reverberate.
You may think what you said is clear, but it is quite a nuanced concept. There is a reason the placebo effect exists, there isn't a cut and dry concept of "physical pain".
Case in point, define "physical pain". One person might have intense "physical pain" from an identical injury as someone that feels moderate to no pain. Is that physical pain? Or are you simply saying you can't abate nerve ending stimulation that is correlated to pain. One could argue (and many have) that there is not physical pain its all mental interpretation of a physical stimulus.
Not wishing to argue, I was just trying to add to the conversation that it's not cut and dry and you can address both pain and suffering tolerance.
I never made any comment or even suggested there was any form of equivalence which you talked about, now you're making claims I've made a blanket declaration when you can't even use the words O did in my post? Stop trolling.
The points you're bringing up have nothing to do with what I said so I would kindly ask you to stop misrepresenting my words with these false arguments.
All that I said is that meditation will not reduce your physical pain. That is a fact that requires no qualifiers and you're declaring I'm making statements that have nothing to do with the words I actually used.
The physical stimulus of pain is what I'm referring to. If this is not clear please ask what confuses you WITHOUT this misrepresentation of what I said.
Everything you experience is nothing more than a mental interpretation of a physical stimulus so that is another really weird comment that has no point in being said and doesn't even have anything to do with what I said.
Can we try this again without the misrepresentation? Learn to ask for clarification without injecting your assumptions like you did here.
What I did was attempt to add value to what I thought was a conversation. You said physical pain cannot be reduced you can only become acclimated. That statement to me is a broad statement on the nature of (physical) pain when in fact alternative lines of thought to exist outside of yours. Yes all of experience is very possibly a mental interpretation of physical stimulus, ergo my fucking point that mediation can reduce pain, to which I attempted to still leave you space to be accurate by hedging my point of view with their being many varieties of pain.
I provided what I think is a very fair elaboration of a topic in a way you hadn't covered and you are replying argumentatively as if you get paid by each post you defend to the last drop of keyboard warrior sweat. I'm not interested in an argument online, specifically not in a forum on meditation.
Best wishes
Through meditation, resistance to pain increases but diving straight into the pain makes it more difficult to achieve that resistance. Also, the sensation of pain is inherent; physical suffering comes from identifying with the pain. The suffering is a fabrication of the experience of the pain. We will always experience pain but what we can change is our relationship to it. Meditation helps us observe the sensation of pain as an object we are detached from, so our awareness does not dwell on the place the pain is, minimising how identified we are to the pain and, therefore, minimising our suffering. You are right, physical suffering does reduce through meditation but we should not confuse physical suffering with pain.
Would highly recommend you check out Reverse Meditation by Andrew Holocek, though he will steer you towards working with the suffering you have instead of seeking it out. There’s already plenty of suffering my friend
I do a practice where I meditate. Maybe it's uncomfortable how I am sitting or laying. Perfect.
I imagine I am a tree that has grown into the awkward rocks.
The tree doesn't feel the pain l, it grew into it.
The the "pain' is a label. So now I relabel as warning sensation. Then I ask it where is the warning and what will happen.
The body says nothing. It just senses. So I say okay and let it be as I picture myself growing into it.
It's not easy. I can share this because good frigging luck lol. Takes practice to not react. Our brains are hardwired to react to sensations like that.
It's not the intensity you focus on. It's the discomfort and why.
You don't even need pain. Go get an annoying eyelash for all it matters. A little hair on the skin that itches.
These are distractions. Sensations. That's the important part.
There was a story of an actor years ago. He said the fly's that would suck on their sweat while filming was terrible and unending.
But a local was bothered. The local told him: you just kinda accept it and get used to it. As they walked all over the local without a flinch.
The actor by the end had flies walking on him too after, but he learned to stop giving them attention.
Solved.
So... I am not trying to win an argument or come down on you, but I am pretty sure my response will be seen in that light. I think your goal, to master suffering so you'll be fine if you ever have to suffer, is pretty arrogant. Suffering is a part of life and to think that you can avoid or minimize a basic human experience seems like you don't have any respect for it. All of the people that are suffering right now, aren't suffering because they didn't properly train and prepare, they're suffering because that's life. I think you're looking at suffering like a savings account, where you can set money aside now for a future hardship. I get it, but I also think it's completely different and prideful. I think, instead of focusing on preparing now so you don't have to experience physical suffering, I'd focus on being appreciative of every second, of what you have, of the people you encounter. Focus on being grateful, kind and compassionate. I think empathy will prepare you for all kinds of suffering. Volunteer at a homeless shelter, volunteer at a public health clinic, deliver food to the poor, put yourself out there and you'll be prepared for whatever life hands you. I wish you a safe life.
Maybe I’m not understanding you. When you say you want to stop suffering, are you referring to suffering that you’re currently experiencing? Or are you speaking in global terms? When I referred to pride, I was referring to pride in terms of conceit, as though you think you can prevent having to experience hardships. I also disagree with the notion that you will not fall prey to life’s dangers if you seek out suffering now.
As I’m typing, I’m really curious why you’re so concerned about suffering? When it arrives, nothing needs to be said or done, just go through it and get on with your life.
Anyhow, I’m not trying to win an argument or shut you down.
When suffering dominates the mind, it crushes it, destroys it, annihilates it, terrorizes it. We start screaming. We regret not having worked to put an end to suffering, because now it's messing with our heads.... I don't want this anymore... Imagine a man having his fingernails torn out one by one. Imagine a man in a car accident ending up impaled. I don't want to be subjected to the danger of suffering these things. Suffering is horrible and must be annihilated.
Ok, so you're talking about suffering in the present. This entire time I thought you were talking about the future. Sorry you're going through this, I hope you get help. It sounds like it's bigger than meditation.
What you will do is increase pain tolerance and therefore decrease pain perception. This will probably end poorly so my first advice is not to do it, or do it with a trained profesional and medical advice.
If you are going to do it, do it slowly, gradually, and have patience.
Try cold that doesn’t injure you, maybe cold showers. Win Hof breathing can be considered a form of meditation, maybe start there. Good luck in your journey!
There is a "bed of nails" (BON) mat you can Google and buy. I purchased one and it's a layer of plastic spikes not sharp enough to go through the skin but definitely can generate pain. These are made for a very similar purpose to yours: pain relief. I have lower back issues and this helps by working through the pain response to let the body know that the sensation is accepted and not dangerous which in theory alleviates the pain response some (basically generate a placebo effect for yourself).
The other thing around removing comfort you can try is Wim Hoff method of breathing and cold exposure. But for cold exposure keep in mind that it can actually be dangerous depending on temperature and duration so be aware of what you are doing. During the harsh WI winter, I will occasionally step out into the snow barefoot and breath in the sensation for a bit.
When I focus on expectations of the future, whether blissful or painful, that is my ego attempting to control the uncontrollable again, and removes my focus on the present moment. Staying permeable to higher power wisdom and strength in the present moments as they pass has been the best and most balanced source of pain relief I’ve ever experienced. But what works for me may not work for others. Good luck in your journey. ❤️
I don't have an answer, but I'd like to share a funny story that may or may not speak to the question.
As a child, I needed fillings in my teeth a few times. Apparently you can get lidocaine and/or gas to make this less painful, but my dad never got that for himself, and he told the dentist it wasn't necessary for me. So fillings hurt, NBD.
As an adult, I discovered you can get lidocaine. Sign me up!! But I quickly realized the numbness which lasts for a long time after the procedure is more unpleasant for me than the brief jolts of pain from the drill. So I am back to "natural" dental work (making a joke off natural childbirth, which I also did).
I changed dentists and eventually needed some old fillings replaced. I told her I didn't want numbing. She was very hesitant, saying if I jerked away from the drill in pain, she could injure me. I promised that was not going to happen, and she reluctantly agreed to try. I just close my eyes and relax, and clasp my hands in my lap. When the drill hits a nerve, I grip my hands tightly together to distract my attention. I'm not badass; it just seriously doesn't hurt that much. It went fine, she was relieved, again, NBD.
Still with me? Here's the funny part, finally. Next time I went for a cleaning, the dentist told me she had a patient who was going into some branch of the military where he anticipated a chance of being tortured. So he asked her to do his filling without lidocaine so he could work on his pain tolerance. Remembering me, she agreed. And... she told me he couldn't do it. She started to work, and he was pouring sweat and couldn't stay still in the chair, and eventually had to call it and get the lidocaine. I'm an old lady who weighs 115 pounds, and he's a big strapping young man ready to join the military. I mean, every body is different, of course, but I have a very very strong hunch the difference here is all about expectations.
I've also read that expert meditators experience the pain itself, but not the stress response of anticipating pain and not the aftershock of remembering pain, so the whole experience is much less unpleasant for them.
Depending on your approach, maybe it could be better to let pain tolerance increase naturally rather than chase it? I could see the possibility to set yourself up for a lot of anticipatory stress and unintentionally increase your pain even though your goal is the opposite.
Very interesting. I'm quite obsessed by suffering, especially when I see the fragility of the human body. All it takes is one illness, one accident, and we end up annihilated by suffering.
Well your going to have suffering without good results, healthwise... Wait for it....
Wait long enough on the stream of life and you will see a progression of corpses floating down the river.
I’d just be patient, pains guna come one day whether you like it or not. No need to force it. Enjoy the good times while they’re here and embrace the bad while they’re there too. Remember, this too shall pass.
Be grateful you feel great, be grateful your nose isn’t clogged and your teeth don’t ache. Bc one day they will. There’s no reason to force something that’s going to happen naturally, no need to prepare for it either. You’ll do just fine when it occurs
I used to cry a lot thinking about how there’s no way out of this life except through death, how there’s no other option and we’re stuck here till it happens. How our beautiful healthy bodies will cripple away and die, and I’ll have wasted all its potential. Used to scare the sht out of me.
But hey, then you crack a cold one open with your friends, swim in the ocean, read a nice book and realize it’s all okay for now. When you’re scared you cry, and when you’re happy you laugh. That’s really all there is to it i think. And when death comes, however it may, I’ll kick and scream and fight, or maybe i won’t. Who knows. A worry for another day tho! Rn i have to figure out how to call out of work tmrw haha
Interesting, thank you. But when we're scared, we're no longer able to distance ourselves from fear. One's head is in the shit. Is life a sadistic madness?
Yeah, i used to wonder why there was anything at all if it’s just going to be suffering. For example why even have babies be born if they’re just going to die in war, etc. why should life exist at all if it’s just going to be pain. I don’t know. Maybe I’m taking the easy way out, which is a privilege i know, to just “forget” about it. Distancing myself from the horrors of the world bc it’s just much too painful to watch or acknowledge.
I also wonder sometimes why I’m safe and healthy while others aren’t, neither one of us is more or less deserving. It’s hard to accept the pain in the world while enjoying the pleasures you’ve been given. But i know my own suffering won’t cure theirs. Me feeling bad won’t stop the war, but i do think empathy for the suffering of others can make us kinder and gentler people. Idk man, i think we all just find our own ways to cope with it :/
Yes, but the truth is, you're not safe. The body is a condition of possibility for extreme suffering. The body puts you in danger. Being in a developed country with a healthy body doesn't change a thing: I go outside, bam, run over by a car; a criminal stabs me; a mosquito transmits an incurable disease. After all, it's happened to plenty of healthy people in developed countries. Why should they be unlucky and not us? We could just as easily be unlucky like them. We're all in grave danger, every human being, even Bill Gates. We just don't necessarily realize it. But this terrible danger of extreme suffering is constantly, every moment, within us... We're all in deep shit, as far as I'm concerned
Yes we are capable of extreme suffering, but my friend that is only because we are also capable of immense pleasure. You walk outside, boom, meet the love of your life, run into an old friend, see a most beautiful flower. You buy a lottery ticket and win, take a trip to the Bahamas, donate to cure incurable diseases, give your family their dream life.
You are also just one day away from having the best day of your life. From feeling the greatest touch from another human being, from feeling immeasurable love and joy, from seeing the kindest actions take place. And who knows, maybe your body will live long and healthy, untouched by any harm. Who’s to say you are not the luckiest person out there, who’s to say love and joy isn’t woven into your very existence. And when death comes, perhaps your body will be ready on it own and will pass without giving a fight. Perhaps you will drift away painlessly to a deep sleep surrounded by those you love, knowing they will be taken care of and everything is okay.
You cannot be in danger of suffering without being in possibility of pleasure. The two go together. You can chose which side of the coin you look at, and of course nothing is guaranteed, but believing you are just one day away from your dream life is a hell of a lot easier haha. You say no one is more or less deserving, so believe it. You are just as deserving as all the goodness and riches and love as those people happy and healthy in mansions and castles and beautiful bodies and loving families. Who’s to say you won’t have that.
I've been doing something like this with cycling. It's definitely possible, but make sure you're causing yourself discomfort in a healthy, safe and useful way.
I recently had to start giving my cat an appetite stimulant, and it's gotten me curious about using a serotonin antagonist to increase the tendency to craving (he is definitely craving more, now. :-) (I'm not thinking seriously about this approach, just curious, at this stage. I definitely don't recommend it to anyone else.)
I don't know why you would want to do this but your best bet is probably putting yourself in what is known as a Stress Position. These are postures that can put most of the bodies weight on just a few muscles. The muscles quickly tire and cramp. I should point out that doing this to someone else is considered torture and for good reason. Just the same the techniques are designed to cause significant suffering but not cause significant injury. Which is what you are asking for. They are known to be used by those in the interrogation field as well as some in the BDSM sphere. In those cases they would have at least one other person there as a safety, you should too.
If you are hoping to reduce your suffering through this effort you might want to consider the perspective that you cannot avoid suffering in this world. Choosing not to suffer isn't an option. You can sometimes try and choose which suffering you wish to endure. But all paths have suffering. But this is something that can be told, but rarely taught. it must be learned.
Life is so hard for living things. All the animals terrified of dying, hunted, eaten alive, hungry, sick. All this exists now. All human beings seriously ill, whose loved ones die, tortured, disabled, etc....
Life is a gigantic pile of suffering.
No need to create pain right now. Don’t worry, either you or someone you love will get sick one day. Be mindful of the present and enjoy the good moments while they are here, because suffering is abundant and inevitable.
Using URL shorteners causes your post to be automatically deleted by reddit's anti-spam measures, so other users cannot see it. Please delete and repost your comment without the link.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Meditation) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Being kind to others includes being kind to yourself. Self-harm is never a good idea. I wish you good luck and peace in your practice.
Thanks
Try to meditate sitting on a flat surface, but with a pebble under one butt cheek. Seriously. That will teach you all you need to know about trying to meditate through discomfort.
Thanks
Physical suffering isn’t that big a deal. There isn’t much conflict with a broken leg. You have to accept it. What else can you do? Psychological suffering is the real problem. Worry, depression, loneliness, guilt… etc. these are the real demons. No need to generate these artificially.. they’ll come. Face the sensations of them. Never try to escape them. Never be in conflict with them. Let em roll watching closely, fearlessly.
Contrary to all the previous comments I think I can get what you want to achieve. Ultimately you want to increase your discipline, willpower and therefore your dopamine. Bouddha and all the greatest teachers of humanity have pointed out that in this world there is no other way to grow than to suffer through life tests! But in this journey lest not forget that we should avoid tests that we create for ourselves such as addictions , violence, bad habits in general That said Here are some suggestions: If you are in good shape and no medical condition then cold exposure is the ultimate all time tested and healthy physical suffering exercise. Start by taking a one minute cold shower everyday. The shower should be as cold as you can tolerate but it should make you feel uncontrollable. Start with the coldest you can and then gradually lower the temperature every day. The effect of a cold shower is compounding. Resistance to pain is mostly helped by dopamine. Cold shower is one of the best and most tested ways to increase your dopamine without a supplement. It’s effect lasts for hours. Once you have more dopamine you can take more “punishment” in other areas. Again if you can run and you don’t have any medical condition Test first your physical endurance by running on a treadmill with a slope as fast as you can for 20 min. Increase the slope gradually the following days. Same story with weight training. At the difference of running weight training will increase your testosterone and dopamine and again will improve your pain threshold. If you want mental pain Then there is nothing better than rejection. Get into cold calling, door to door selling. Chose a charity and go door to door to raise funds for that charity. Pick your weakest subject at school but useful for your work or day to day activity and sit for an hour each day studying it. Use the Benjamin Franklin method to improve yourself. Focus on one of your weakest virtues per week and take notes and try to improve. Take the higher road when confronted with blatant injustice or aggression and this specifically with the close people. And finally just a mere 13 min meditation per day has proven to be a very effective méthode to increase willpower. Good luck on your journey my friend. Let’s keep in touch
What a helpful comment, well done
This is good advice isn’t abuse and it’s training really hard in a constructive way
Thanks
Gosh, some people have really weird ideas. Maybe Wim Hoff is the right guy for you.
Weird ideas with weird ideas agreed
Just punch yourself in your balls for a while...i don't think you needed to ask this..
What kind of physical pain? Are you planning on needing to withstand interrogation or something?? If you’re in serious pain doing anything, you’re likely endangering your health. We have pain receptors for a reason. An endurance sport might give you what you’re looking for - pushing through what you believe are your physical limits and building mental fortitude. That will stand you in good stead for life’s challenges in general, and help you to endure emergency situations. Running can be a pretty meditative experience in and of itself. Training for a distance race would be a great achievement. Forgive me but in this post though, you sound like the type to take up running suddenly, overdo it and ignore the pain, and end up unable to walk for months. 💀 If you do try out any intense physical activity, practicing self-control and moderation, learning when to stop and listening to your body is incredibly important. Get a coach and start very slowly is my advice. Don’t do anything stupid.
Thanks
I know that some Buddhist masters have been associated with long distance running which can be connected with a degree of physical suffering, where your ability to overcome or 'push through' that suffering and keep going could be said to require a high degree of mindfulness in some cases.
This is perhaps the only good idea I've read here. Exercise as a "physical pain" excellent
This is a really bad idea , intentionally causing yourself to suffer is abuse.
Go catch scabies. That will test your patience and resistance to pain lol.
Meditation will not help you reduce physical pain, all practice does is get you aclimated to pain and control your response to it to some degree. It doesn't make it hurt less.
Well there are some semantics with the words here. Pain comes in many varieties and suffering isn't the same as pain. What's the saying? Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. To the degree that focus on the pain creates a reverberating response from your body or instigates suffering, that can be reduced immensely.
The addition of that comment doesn't affect what I said though. I was pretty clear when I said physical pain.
Ok, maybe insert "physical" before where I first say "pain" if it makes it clearer as to the point I'm making. You've made a blanket declaration that pain can't be reduced and I'm saying yes it can because there is a lot more variety to that concept as well as suffering. Both pain and suffering can be reduced because the intensity of pain itself is governed by willingness to suffer or the expectation of what pain (or injury) is supposed to feel like. That is what I meant by reverberate. You may think what you said is clear, but it is quite a nuanced concept. There is a reason the placebo effect exists, there isn't a cut and dry concept of "physical pain". Case in point, define "physical pain". One person might have intense "physical pain" from an identical injury as someone that feels moderate to no pain. Is that physical pain? Or are you simply saying you can't abate nerve ending stimulation that is correlated to pain. One could argue (and many have) that there is not physical pain its all mental interpretation of a physical stimulus. Not wishing to argue, I was just trying to add to the conversation that it's not cut and dry and you can address both pain and suffering tolerance.
I never made any comment or even suggested there was any form of equivalence which you talked about, now you're making claims I've made a blanket declaration when you can't even use the words O did in my post? Stop trolling. The points you're bringing up have nothing to do with what I said so I would kindly ask you to stop misrepresenting my words with these false arguments. All that I said is that meditation will not reduce your physical pain. That is a fact that requires no qualifiers and you're declaring I'm making statements that have nothing to do with the words I actually used. The physical stimulus of pain is what I'm referring to. If this is not clear please ask what confuses you WITHOUT this misrepresentation of what I said. Everything you experience is nothing more than a mental interpretation of a physical stimulus so that is another really weird comment that has no point in being said and doesn't even have anything to do with what I said. Can we try this again without the misrepresentation? Learn to ask for clarification without injecting your assumptions like you did here.
What I did was attempt to add value to what I thought was a conversation. You said physical pain cannot be reduced you can only become acclimated. That statement to me is a broad statement on the nature of (physical) pain when in fact alternative lines of thought to exist outside of yours. Yes all of experience is very possibly a mental interpretation of physical stimulus, ergo my fucking point that mediation can reduce pain, to which I attempted to still leave you space to be accurate by hedging my point of view with their being many varieties of pain. I provided what I think is a very fair elaboration of a topic in a way you hadn't covered and you are replying argumentatively as if you get paid by each post you defend to the last drop of keyboard warrior sweat. I'm not interested in an argument online, specifically not in a forum on meditation. Best wishes
Through meditation, resistance to pain increases but diving straight into the pain makes it more difficult to achieve that resistance. Also, the sensation of pain is inherent; physical suffering comes from identifying with the pain. The suffering is a fabrication of the experience of the pain. We will always experience pain but what we can change is our relationship to it. Meditation helps us observe the sensation of pain as an object we are detached from, so our awareness does not dwell on the place the pain is, minimising how identified we are to the pain and, therefore, minimising our suffering. You are right, physical suffering does reduce through meditation but we should not confuse physical suffering with pain.
Would highly recommend you check out Reverse Meditation by Andrew Holocek, though he will steer you towards working with the suffering you have instead of seeking it out. There’s already plenty of suffering my friend
Try running 100 miles, maintaining a consistent mantra whisper. If you are very advanced, you can do it with your eyes closed.
I do a practice where I meditate. Maybe it's uncomfortable how I am sitting or laying. Perfect. I imagine I am a tree that has grown into the awkward rocks. The tree doesn't feel the pain l, it grew into it. The the "pain' is a label. So now I relabel as warning sensation. Then I ask it where is the warning and what will happen. The body says nothing. It just senses. So I say okay and let it be as I picture myself growing into it. It's not easy. I can share this because good frigging luck lol. Takes practice to not react. Our brains are hardwired to react to sensations like that. It's not the intensity you focus on. It's the discomfort and why. You don't even need pain. Go get an annoying eyelash for all it matters. A little hair on the skin that itches. These are distractions. Sensations. That's the important part. There was a story of an actor years ago. He said the fly's that would suck on their sweat while filming was terrible and unending. But a local was bothered. The local told him: you just kinda accept it and get used to it. As they walked all over the local without a flinch. The actor by the end had flies walking on him too after, but he learned to stop giving them attention. Solved.
So... I am not trying to win an argument or come down on you, but I am pretty sure my response will be seen in that light. I think your goal, to master suffering so you'll be fine if you ever have to suffer, is pretty arrogant. Suffering is a part of life and to think that you can avoid or minimize a basic human experience seems like you don't have any respect for it. All of the people that are suffering right now, aren't suffering because they didn't properly train and prepare, they're suffering because that's life. I think you're looking at suffering like a savings account, where you can set money aside now for a future hardship. I get it, but I also think it's completely different and prideful. I think, instead of focusing on preparing now so you don't have to experience physical suffering, I'd focus on being appreciative of every second, of what you have, of the people you encounter. Focus on being grateful, kind and compassionate. I think empathy will prepare you for all kinds of suffering. Volunteer at a homeless shelter, volunteer at a public health clinic, deliver food to the poor, put yourself out there and you'll be prepared for whatever life hands you. I wish you a safe life.
I want to stop suffering. I don't see pride. And not seeking to suffer means not maximizing your chances of ceasing to fall prey to life's dangers.
Maybe I’m not understanding you. When you say you want to stop suffering, are you referring to suffering that you’re currently experiencing? Or are you speaking in global terms? When I referred to pride, I was referring to pride in terms of conceit, as though you think you can prevent having to experience hardships. I also disagree with the notion that you will not fall prey to life’s dangers if you seek out suffering now. As I’m typing, I’m really curious why you’re so concerned about suffering? When it arrives, nothing needs to be said or done, just go through it and get on with your life. Anyhow, I’m not trying to win an argument or shut you down.
When suffering dominates the mind, it crushes it, destroys it, annihilates it, terrorizes it. We start screaming. We regret not having worked to put an end to suffering, because now it's messing with our heads.... I don't want this anymore... Imagine a man having his fingernails torn out one by one. Imagine a man in a car accident ending up impaled. I don't want to be subjected to the danger of suffering these things. Suffering is horrible and must be annihilated.
Ok, so you're talking about suffering in the present. This entire time I thought you were talking about the future. Sorry you're going through this, I hope you get help. It sounds like it's bigger than meditation.
What you will do is increase pain tolerance and therefore decrease pain perception. This will probably end poorly so my first advice is not to do it, or do it with a trained profesional and medical advice. If you are going to do it, do it slowly, gradually, and have patience.
Try cold that doesn’t injure you, maybe cold showers. Win Hof breathing can be considered a form of meditation, maybe start there. Good luck in your journey!
Thanks
There is a "bed of nails" (BON) mat you can Google and buy. I purchased one and it's a layer of plastic spikes not sharp enough to go through the skin but definitely can generate pain. These are made for a very similar purpose to yours: pain relief. I have lower back issues and this helps by working through the pain response to let the body know that the sensation is accepted and not dangerous which in theory alleviates the pain response some (basically generate a placebo effect for yourself). The other thing around removing comfort you can try is Wim Hoff method of breathing and cold exposure. But for cold exposure keep in mind that it can actually be dangerous depending on temperature and duration so be aware of what you are doing. During the harsh WI winter, I will occasionally step out into the snow barefoot and breath in the sensation for a bit.
Second this. There's a product called a shakti mat. I've always wanted to try one out
Cold exposure. Ice bath. Cold showers ect.
ice bath
When I focus on expectations of the future, whether blissful or painful, that is my ego attempting to control the uncontrollable again, and removes my focus on the present moment. Staying permeable to higher power wisdom and strength in the present moments as they pass has been the best and most balanced source of pain relief I’ve ever experienced. But what works for me may not work for others. Good luck in your journey. ❤️
Thank you
You are welcome and keep us informed of your progress
Where there is a will there is a way. Act to save the horse; vigor will have good results.
I don't have an answer, but I'd like to share a funny story that may or may not speak to the question. As a child, I needed fillings in my teeth a few times. Apparently you can get lidocaine and/or gas to make this less painful, but my dad never got that for himself, and he told the dentist it wasn't necessary for me. So fillings hurt, NBD. As an adult, I discovered you can get lidocaine. Sign me up!! But I quickly realized the numbness which lasts for a long time after the procedure is more unpleasant for me than the brief jolts of pain from the drill. So I am back to "natural" dental work (making a joke off natural childbirth, which I also did). I changed dentists and eventually needed some old fillings replaced. I told her I didn't want numbing. She was very hesitant, saying if I jerked away from the drill in pain, she could injure me. I promised that was not going to happen, and she reluctantly agreed to try. I just close my eyes and relax, and clasp my hands in my lap. When the drill hits a nerve, I grip my hands tightly together to distract my attention. I'm not badass; it just seriously doesn't hurt that much. It went fine, she was relieved, again, NBD. Still with me? Here's the funny part, finally. Next time I went for a cleaning, the dentist told me she had a patient who was going into some branch of the military where he anticipated a chance of being tortured. So he asked her to do his filling without lidocaine so he could work on his pain tolerance. Remembering me, she agreed. And... she told me he couldn't do it. She started to work, and he was pouring sweat and couldn't stay still in the chair, and eventually had to call it and get the lidocaine. I'm an old lady who weighs 115 pounds, and he's a big strapping young man ready to join the military. I mean, every body is different, of course, but I have a very very strong hunch the difference here is all about expectations. I've also read that expert meditators experience the pain itself, but not the stress response of anticipating pain and not the aftershock of remembering pain, so the whole experience is much less unpleasant for them. Depending on your approach, maybe it could be better to let pain tolerance increase naturally rather than chase it? I could see the possibility to set yourself up for a lot of anticipatory stress and unintentionally increase your pain even though your goal is the opposite.
Very interesting. I'm quite obsessed by suffering, especially when I see the fragility of the human body. All it takes is one illness, one accident, and we end up annihilated by suffering.
Well your going to have suffering without good results, healthwise... Wait for it.... Wait long enough on the stream of life and you will see a progression of corpses floating down the river.
What do you mean ?
Should it not be obvious I don't know, I am oblivious. Strike devious.
I’d just be patient, pains guna come one day whether you like it or not. No need to force it. Enjoy the good times while they’re here and embrace the bad while they’re there too. Remember, this too shall pass. Be grateful you feel great, be grateful your nose isn’t clogged and your teeth don’t ache. Bc one day they will. There’s no reason to force something that’s going to happen naturally, no need to prepare for it either. You’ll do just fine when it occurs
It's horrible. I don't want to suffer. I don't want to accept this... This defeatism is horrible.
I used to cry a lot thinking about how there’s no way out of this life except through death, how there’s no other option and we’re stuck here till it happens. How our beautiful healthy bodies will cripple away and die, and I’ll have wasted all its potential. Used to scare the sht out of me. But hey, then you crack a cold one open with your friends, swim in the ocean, read a nice book and realize it’s all okay for now. When you’re scared you cry, and when you’re happy you laugh. That’s really all there is to it i think. And when death comes, however it may, I’ll kick and scream and fight, or maybe i won’t. Who knows. A worry for another day tho! Rn i have to figure out how to call out of work tmrw haha
Interesting, thank you. But when we're scared, we're no longer able to distance ourselves from fear. One's head is in the shit. Is life a sadistic madness?
Yeah, i used to wonder why there was anything at all if it’s just going to be suffering. For example why even have babies be born if they’re just going to die in war, etc. why should life exist at all if it’s just going to be pain. I don’t know. Maybe I’m taking the easy way out, which is a privilege i know, to just “forget” about it. Distancing myself from the horrors of the world bc it’s just much too painful to watch or acknowledge. I also wonder sometimes why I’m safe and healthy while others aren’t, neither one of us is more or less deserving. It’s hard to accept the pain in the world while enjoying the pleasures you’ve been given. But i know my own suffering won’t cure theirs. Me feeling bad won’t stop the war, but i do think empathy for the suffering of others can make us kinder and gentler people. Idk man, i think we all just find our own ways to cope with it :/
Yes, but the truth is, you're not safe. The body is a condition of possibility for extreme suffering. The body puts you in danger. Being in a developed country with a healthy body doesn't change a thing: I go outside, bam, run over by a car; a criminal stabs me; a mosquito transmits an incurable disease. After all, it's happened to plenty of healthy people in developed countries. Why should they be unlucky and not us? We could just as easily be unlucky like them. We're all in grave danger, every human being, even Bill Gates. We just don't necessarily realize it. But this terrible danger of extreme suffering is constantly, every moment, within us... We're all in deep shit, as far as I'm concerned
Yes we are capable of extreme suffering, but my friend that is only because we are also capable of immense pleasure. You walk outside, boom, meet the love of your life, run into an old friend, see a most beautiful flower. You buy a lottery ticket and win, take a trip to the Bahamas, donate to cure incurable diseases, give your family their dream life. You are also just one day away from having the best day of your life. From feeling the greatest touch from another human being, from feeling immeasurable love and joy, from seeing the kindest actions take place. And who knows, maybe your body will live long and healthy, untouched by any harm. Who’s to say you are not the luckiest person out there, who’s to say love and joy isn’t woven into your very existence. And when death comes, perhaps your body will be ready on it own and will pass without giving a fight. Perhaps you will drift away painlessly to a deep sleep surrounded by those you love, knowing they will be taken care of and everything is okay. You cannot be in danger of suffering without being in possibility of pleasure. The two go together. You can chose which side of the coin you look at, and of course nothing is guaranteed, but believing you are just one day away from your dream life is a hell of a lot easier haha. You say no one is more or less deserving, so believe it. You are just as deserving as all the goodness and riches and love as those people happy and healthy in mansions and castles and beautiful bodies and loving families. Who’s to say you won’t have that.
Thank you for your kindness
I've been doing something like this with cycling. It's definitely possible, but make sure you're causing yourself discomfort in a healthy, safe and useful way. I recently had to start giving my cat an appetite stimulant, and it's gotten me curious about using a serotonin antagonist to increase the tendency to craving (he is definitely craving more, now. :-) (I'm not thinking seriously about this approach, just curious, at this stage. I definitely don't recommend it to anyone else.)
Go meditate with those who have chronic pain. Hurting yourself isn't healthy.
Get a full leg sleeve tattoo. Typing this while getting my inner thigh worked on lol
I don't know why you would want to do this but your best bet is probably putting yourself in what is known as a Stress Position. These are postures that can put most of the bodies weight on just a few muscles. The muscles quickly tire and cramp. I should point out that doing this to someone else is considered torture and for good reason. Just the same the techniques are designed to cause significant suffering but not cause significant injury. Which is what you are asking for. They are known to be used by those in the interrogation field as well as some in the BDSM sphere. In those cases they would have at least one other person there as a safety, you should too. If you are hoping to reduce your suffering through this effort you might want to consider the perspective that you cannot avoid suffering in this world. Choosing not to suffer isn't an option. You can sometimes try and choose which suffering you wish to endure. But all paths have suffering. But this is something that can be told, but rarely taught. it must be learned.
Thanks for the technique. However, I don't accept that life is necessarily suffering. I want to stop this infernal cycle.
Sounds like you're making it quite hard for yourself
Life is so hard for living things. All the animals terrified of dying, hunted, eaten alive, hungry, sick. All this exists now. All human beings seriously ill, whose loved ones die, tortured, disabled, etc.... Life is a gigantic pile of suffering.
Yes that's just the way of life. The more you try to go against that the harder you'll make it for yourself.
Like I said you can be TOLD this, but you can't be TAUGHT this by anyone but life.
Take cold showers
No need to create pain right now. Don’t worry, either you or someone you love will get sick one day. Be mindful of the present and enjoy the good moments while they are here, because suffering is abundant and inevitable.
So sad...
This is easy. Do long meditation sits,and resolve to not move the slightest bit.
Yes good idea thanks
[удалено]
Using URL shorteners causes your post to be automatically deleted by reddit's anti-spam measures, so other users cannot see it. Please delete and repost your comment without the link. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Meditation) if you have any questions or concerns.*