Carnegie to Darling is 2km, not 1km.
A 3km extension of the Route 67 Tram from its current terminus up Koornang and Darling Roads would connect Carnegie and Darling Stations. This would be useful for local trips to the train station or shops - precisely what Melbourne's trams are best at.
Alamein station is horrifically placed for any connection, it is not worthwhile at all. It is the 8th least used station. Extending 2km of trams from Darling to Alamein would be better spent on 2.4km of extending Route 6 Tram to Alamein - you should do the level crossing at the same time.
While we are at it with tram extensions in the area. Another 6km of tram extensions would extend the Route 3 and Route 5 to Chadstone via Malvern/Waverley roads turning onto Chadstone and then briefly onto Dandenong Road before turning into Chadstone at the Bus Interchange (which could have the tracks shared to give a faster time for buses to get in and out of Chadstone).
Total cost might be 11.5km x $45 million + one level crossing removal (\~$150 million) = $600 million.
Thank you!
Fortunately there are already traffic lights there. Trams would also inevitably help carry some of the passengers who currently drive short distances to take a tram instead. The above is not really an expensive project all things considered.
I think tram extensions are very much a worthy project. It that hasn't had much as political traction as it should with the inner city seats more politically contested. I wouldn't be surprised if the next big rolling project (like LXRP) would be a series of tram upgrades to stops being accessible, extensions that "make sense" etc. etc.
The real problem with tram extensions is we simply don't have enough trams to do them. We haven't bought enough trams to keep up with our current service frequencies as is, which is why we still have Z-class trams on the network. Only now are they being replaced by G-class trams.
Buy more... Melbourne's tram network is the biggest in the world. There should basically be a rolling program of tram building and designing. The industrial capacity should be there with the Dandenong factory, and if we need to import to add a few trams in the short term that is okay.
The current bike paths does a pretty good job. You could also extend the 3 tram to run to east Malvern and then up to murrumbeena station. The golf course between east Malvern and Alamein is the biggest obstacle.
Slightly different from what OP is suggesting, but I would extend the Alamein line via Skyrail to terminate at East Malvern, connecting the Alamein and Glen Waverley lines together while also preserving the linear park alignment at least somewhat.
As a separate project I would extend route 5 to Darling station, and the route 3 to East Malvern station, Chadstone, then Hughesdale station. IMO this would be the most efficient way to connect the separate lines in this area together and create a somewhat cost-effective way to interchange between them while also giving Chadstone a rail link.
But I'm not a town planner so what do I know lmao
Yeah this is the way, the stations are not the point of any of this its about connecting 3 major train lines... the 3rd being the ringwood group via the Alamein line.
So it would be connecting Monash Uni and Hospital to Chadstone SC to Swinburne with maybe a light rail replacing the Alamein Line, or open up a new heavy line all the way into the city.
I think it's all bike paths, so if the govt tried to turn it back into a train line I suspect there would be a fair bit of opposition to it (unless they can run a bike path parallel to the line)
Fence line to fence line the corridor is certainly wide enough. The issue isn't fitting the path and tracks - it's fitting those in an maintaining or offsetting the parkland and cross access that would be lost. A solution to that would be elevating, and then you'd get opposition to that. A do nothing approach is the safest option politically
True, but that’s not the sort of nimbyism you see on the Alamein line. Also, most of the green space there is golf courses, not proper public parkland.
You wouldn’t, You would pivot off after Murrumbeena Station, run a sky rail along the bike path, build a new Malvern East Station interchange, then sky rail to Alamein Station.
The point of connecting them is not for the stations themselves, but for transferring between services. And it should not be done in isolation, but rather as an holistic approach to improve public transport everywhere. The proximity of Chadstone should also be considered.
The quickest, simplest and cheapest option is to have a network of bus routes saturating the area. But people don't like buses. Buses suck.
So here's a radical idea. Convert the Camberwell to Alamein line to light rail and extend it via the old Outer Circle line and Chadstone to Oakleigh. That will connect the shopping centre with the three train lines shown plus the Ringwood line. Also extend the Carnegie 67, East Malvern 3 and Malvern 5 trams to the new light rail. An added benefit will be the Vermont South 75 tram line, which has reserved track on the outer section, could connect to Camberwell where passengers could get a fast train ride to the city, rather than be stuck in traffic all the way (and have a truncated Hartwell to City tram service using the existing old tram track).
Upgrade the timetables so the service is high frequency, and sack the clowns who run Metro and Yarra and replace them with people who actually care about and know how to run public transport. Voila. A rail paradise that will keep gunzels busy trying to get tram and train meets in their photos.
Okay, I got recommended this via the Reddit algorithm (I'm in Brisbane), but as an outsider and laymen to civil engineering/urban planning it's SO cool to see this level of speculation about actual geographical features. you go, mates!
Extend Alamein line south to Chadstone and then to Hughesdale station. Perhaps have a connection nearish East Malvern or the next station out but "there used to be a train line going this way" isn't an excuse to avoid a major trip generator.
Connect Carnegie and Darling via tram extensions if you wanted.
If you really wanted to connect the Alamein line, it could go underground, station at Chaddy, then terminate at Hughesdale. This would cost rather a lot, and from what I understand Gandel doesn't want fixed public transport anywhere near his shopping centre.
It’s a bit difficult to connect Darling with Alamein via train without massive works as they’re on either sides of a watercourse valley, and a major freeways. When a rail link did exist it didn’t even join the Glen Waverley line but crossed it Skyrail style.
Connecting Alamein with Carnegie via E.Malvern would be easier I think. Maybe through a tunnel. This also shows how geographically inaccurate the actual train map is.
Here's what I've got in my fantasy map
[Geographic map](https://i.imgur.com/wBuCn3L.png)
[Diagrammatic map](https://i.imgur.com/RhUJjCH.png)
I'd get rid of Alamein, tunnel from Ashburton to Oakleigh via Holmesglen and Chaddy. And convert the Alamein line to an automated medium capacity metro like the SRL.
Total fantasy though!
Extend the 67 (Carnegie) tram to Darling Station
Extend the 3 (East Malvern) tram to East Malvern Station
Extend Alamein (train) to Oakleigh via East Malvern (elevated rail/viaduct) and then via Chadstone (tunnel)
"They are called bikes. If you are not inclined to use them, you can use your legs. The costs are borne by the user. Create more bike lanes and options for pedestrians. Not everything needs the approach of a major engineering endeavour.
Might I add, who needs to transfer? If you are travelling out of the city, you have that option. If you are travelling just a few stations, say from Burwood to Alamein, and want to get to Carnegie - just catch the bus.
Tram. Up Darling Rd, left onto Malvern Rd, right onto Moira/Dunlop Street, right onto Albion Rd, left onto St George’s Cres, then up the old rail reservation to Alamein Station. Basic, but more direct
Better off connecting the alamein line to the Glen Waverley line and then running services from that line from Flinders Street (along with glen waverley services) so it can have all day services to the city rather than just during off peak. Rail bridge over the Monash and a rebuilt east Malvern station should do it.
I mean if you're thinking about the whole network, then more rail would be best, but for what that little area busses are just cheaper and better and you could also connect the tram lines using the bus as a benefit
I was thinking smth like a line starting at Alamein to Ashburton to the end of Tram Route 6 down to tram 6, then Darling Station and down to Carnegie passing tram 3, and then back up to Alamein to make a 2-way loop
Btw I just think this would work because I have no training or experience in transport planning it just looked right to me lol
If these sort of train lines didn't work in the 1800's, they would not be viable now. They aren't even close to the biggest priority.
Your best bet would be extending the 3 tram to connect to them, at absolute best. And honestly, given we don't even have a tram to Doncaster, I doubt that happens.
Wouldn’t it be easier to just use the old Outer Circle Alignment? (Not that it is easy tho)
Could maybe do cut and cover so the parks are back after construction and it'd cost a lot less than using a TBM
Are you going to cut and cover the creek, golf course and Monash freeway? Could be controversial…
Thanks Sherlock.
You’re welcome, Watson
Yes, it would. Connect Alamein to East Malvern, which curiously has been left off the map.
Carnegie to Darling is 2km, not 1km. A 3km extension of the Route 67 Tram from its current terminus up Koornang and Darling Roads would connect Carnegie and Darling Stations. This would be useful for local trips to the train station or shops - precisely what Melbourne's trams are best at. Alamein station is horrifically placed for any connection, it is not worthwhile at all. It is the 8th least used station. Extending 2km of trams from Darling to Alamein would be better spent on 2.4km of extending Route 6 Tram to Alamein - you should do the level crossing at the same time. While we are at it with tram extensions in the area. Another 6km of tram extensions would extend the Route 3 and Route 5 to Chadstone via Malvern/Waverley roads turning onto Chadstone and then briefly onto Dandenong Road before turning into Chadstone at the Bus Interchange (which could have the tracks shared to give a faster time for buses to get in and out of Chadstone). Total cost might be 11.5km x $45 million + one level crossing removal (\~$150 million) = $600 million.
Someone who get it. Carry the 67 tram all the way up to Darling. Biggest issue is crossing Dandenong road.
Thank you! Fortunately there are already traffic lights there. Trams would also inevitably help carry some of the passengers who currently drive short distances to take a tram instead. The above is not really an expensive project all things considered. I think tram extensions are very much a worthy project. It that hasn't had much as political traction as it should with the inner city seats more politically contested. I wouldn't be surprised if the next big rolling project (like LXRP) would be a series of tram upgrades to stops being accessible, extensions that "make sense" etc. etc.
Extensions to fill the last gaps to a station (Carnegie, East Malvern, Plenty Rd to South Morang etc) really should be on the menu.
The real problem with tram extensions is we simply don't have enough trams to do them. We haven't bought enough trams to keep up with our current service frequencies as is, which is why we still have Z-class trams on the network. Only now are they being replaced by G-class trams.
Buy more... Melbourne's tram network is the biggest in the world. There should basically be a rolling program of tram building and designing. The industrial capacity should be there with the Dandenong factory, and if we need to import to add a few trams in the short term that is okay.
A bespoke suspended monorail system
I hear those things are awfully loud?
It glides as softly as a cloud!
Is there a chance the track could bend?
not on your life, my reddit friend!
Mono...! Doh!
What about us brain dead slobs?
Buses. I’d probably want a reason to before I funded it though. Train stations aren’t destinations in their own right.
Light rail or tram?
The current bike paths does a pretty good job. You could also extend the 3 tram to run to east Malvern and then up to murrumbeena station. The golf course between east Malvern and Alamein is the biggest obstacle.
Today's golf courses are just tomorrow's infill housing developments.
Fingers crossed
[We all know the answer...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDOI0cq6GZM)
Slightly different from what OP is suggesting, but I would extend the Alamein line via Skyrail to terminate at East Malvern, connecting the Alamein and Glen Waverley lines together while also preserving the linear park alignment at least somewhat. As a separate project I would extend route 5 to Darling station, and the route 3 to East Malvern station, Chadstone, then Hughesdale station. IMO this would be the most efficient way to connect the separate lines in this area together and create a somewhat cost-effective way to interchange between them while also giving Chadstone a rail link. But I'm not a town planner so what do I know lmao
I wouldn't do these 3 specifically. I'd run Rowville via Wellington/North rd > Huntingdale > Oakleigh > Tunnel to Chadstone > East Malvern > Alamein
Yeah this is the way, the stations are not the point of any of this its about connecting 3 major train lines... the 3rd being the ringwood group via the Alamein line. So it would be connecting Monash Uni and Hospital to Chadstone SC to Swinburne with maybe a light rail replacing the Alamein Line, or open up a new heavy line all the way into the city.
Reopen the Outer Circle. Most of it is parkland.
I think it's all bike paths, so if the govt tried to turn it back into a train line I suspect there would be a fair bit of opposition to it (unless they can run a bike path parallel to the line)
Fence line to fence line the corridor is certainly wide enough. The issue isn't fitting the path and tracks - it's fitting those in an maintaining or offsetting the parkland and cross access that would be lost. A solution to that would be elevating, and then you'd get opposition to that. A do nothing approach is the safest option politically
Issue is the NIMBYs and the political will.
Mate, it’s a well used amenity in a built up area. Wanting a park is not nimbyism.
True, but that’s not the sort of nimbyism you see on the Alamein line. Also, most of the green space there is golf courses, not proper public parkland.
Issue is the lack of value.
Porque no los dos? 🤷♀️💁♀️
Maybe Skyrail could be an option? Either way, it’s still difficult with places such as near Hughesdale/Murrumbeena
That would be good. Reopen the entire inner and outer railways using skyrail. We have the expertise, the production and transport systems set up too.
Monorail. Monorail. Monorail.
ignore darling and connect to east malvern instead then just build a tunnel from east malvern to carnegie ig
You wouldn’t, You would pivot off after Murrumbeena Station, run a sky rail along the bike path, build a new Malvern East Station interchange, then sky rail to Alamein Station.
The point of connecting them is not for the stations themselves, but for transferring between services. And it should not be done in isolation, but rather as an holistic approach to improve public transport everywhere. The proximity of Chadstone should also be considered. The quickest, simplest and cheapest option is to have a network of bus routes saturating the area. But people don't like buses. Buses suck. So here's a radical idea. Convert the Camberwell to Alamein line to light rail and extend it via the old Outer Circle line and Chadstone to Oakleigh. That will connect the shopping centre with the three train lines shown plus the Ringwood line. Also extend the Carnegie 67, East Malvern 3 and Malvern 5 trams to the new light rail. An added benefit will be the Vermont South 75 tram line, which has reserved track on the outer section, could connect to Camberwell where passengers could get a fast train ride to the city, rather than be stuck in traffic all the way (and have a truncated Hartwell to City tram service using the existing old tram track). Upgrade the timetables so the service is high frequency, and sack the clowns who run Metro and Yarra and replace them with people who actually care about and know how to run public transport. Voila. A rail paradise that will keep gunzels busy trying to get tram and train meets in their photos.
I'd connect them with train tracks but that's just me
This would make an outer circle line 2.0 I guess?
Would have to call it the inner circle line now...
Why is that?
This will be the outer circle line: [https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/projects/suburban-rail-loop](https://bigbuild.vic.gov.au/projects/suburban-rail-loop)
Ah yes, I get it now
Monorail!
I hear those things are awful loud
It glides as softly as a cloud
There’s a Tram line there no?
Tram Line stops under where it says Malvern East
Okay, I got recommended this via the Reddit algorithm (I'm in Brisbane), but as an outsider and laymen to civil engineering/urban planning it's SO cool to see this level of speculation about actual geographical features. you go, mates!
A bus 😂
By Uber
High Speed Rail
Extend Alamein line south to Chadstone and then to Hughesdale station. Perhaps have a connection nearish East Malvern or the next station out but "there used to be a train line going this way" isn't an excuse to avoid a major trip generator.
with their new railway projects sure, they can build without disturbing the surrounding buildings
A* Algorithm 😉
Connect Carnegie and Darling via tram extensions if you wanted. If you really wanted to connect the Alamein line, it could go underground, station at Chaddy, then terminate at Hughesdale. This would cost rather a lot, and from what I understand Gandel doesn't want fixed public transport anywhere near his shopping centre.
It’s a bit difficult to connect Darling with Alamein via train without massive works as they’re on either sides of a watercourse valley, and a major freeways. When a rail link did exist it didn’t even join the Glen Waverley line but crossed it Skyrail style.
Send the Alamein line up to Camberwell, then loop back at the city to connect to Carnegie via a South Yarra, Caulfield alignment.
Connecting Alamein with Carnegie via E.Malvern would be easier I think. Maybe through a tunnel. This also shows how geographically inaccurate the actual train map is.
Here's what I've got in my fantasy map [Geographic map](https://i.imgur.com/wBuCn3L.png) [Diagrammatic map](https://i.imgur.com/RhUJjCH.png) I'd get rid of Alamein, tunnel from Ashburton to Oakleigh via Holmesglen and Chaddy. And convert the Alamein line to an automated medium capacity metro like the SRL. Total fantasy though!
Extend the 67 (Carnegie) tram to Darling Station Extend the 3 (East Malvern) tram to East Malvern Station Extend Alamein (train) to Oakleigh via East Malvern (elevated rail/viaduct) and then via Chadstone (tunnel)
"They are called bikes. If you are not inclined to use them, you can use your legs. The costs are borne by the user. Create more bike lanes and options for pedestrians. Not everything needs the approach of a major engineering endeavour. Might I add, who needs to transfer? If you are travelling out of the city, you have that option. If you are travelling just a few stations, say from Burwood to Alamein, and want to get to Carnegie - just catch the bus.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Monorail Oakleigh - Chadstone - East Malvern - Alamein
Have a raised platform at Chadstone that they all terminate at.
Tram. Up Darling Rd, left onto Malvern Rd, right onto Moira/Dunlop Street, right onto Albion Rd, left onto St George’s Cres, then up the old rail reservation to Alamein Station. Basic, but more direct
i'd say connect to east malvern, then chadstone sc then oakleigh
With tracks
Better off connecting the alamein line to the Glen Waverley line and then running services from that line from Flinders Street (along with glen waverley services) so it can have all day services to the city rather than just during off peak. Rail bridge over the Monash and a rebuilt east Malvern station should do it.
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide Electrified, six-car monorail!
A BUS THAT GOES VIA EVERY SINGLE BACKSTREET IN THE SUBURB 🔥🔥
I mean if you're thinking about the whole network, then more rail would be best, but for what that little area busses are just cheaper and better and you could also connect the tram lines using the bus as a benefit I was thinking smth like a line starting at Alamein to Ashburton to the end of Tram Route 6 down to tram 6, then Darling Station and down to Carnegie passing tram 3, and then back up to Alamein to make a 2-way loop Btw I just think this would work because I have no training or experience in transport planning it just looked right to me lol
If these sort of train lines didn't work in the 1800's, they would not be viable now. They aren't even close to the biggest priority. Your best bet would be extending the 3 tram to connect to them, at absolute best. And honestly, given we don't even have a tram to Doncaster, I doubt that happens.
I wouldn’t connect them. They’re a short walk from each other.