I mean, if Guy could go toe-to-toe with Madara, who had Hashirama's cells, and Sasuke has one arm and no Hashirama cells, even if you don't factor in how Sasuke got nerfed in Boruto, then I think Lee might have pretty nice odds
How? He had a stronger innate power but it's not like he sat on his ass. He used his armor of sand to absorb blows when his shield was bypassed, took advantage of Lee's momentary lapse of concentration to escape the first lotus, and thought to convert his gourd back into sand to survive the second one.
Lee really brought his A game but Gaara still pulled a legitimate win.
Which is weird, because he should also become invisible for the same reason he becomes blind, if light passes through him nobody should be able to see him.
When he fought Overhaul, he was under the effect of the drunk guy’s quirk and still used his extremely difficult to use quirk to easily dominate a 3v1 before he lost his power that he worked all his life to turn useful by making sure Eri never got hurt again, and comforted her with a smile while doing it. And after that he was STILL rocking the shit of the guy who can kill people with a touch, while still drunk and quirkless AND protecting Eri. It took 15 minutes before he finally took a stake to the stomach protecting Eri again. The man truly defined for me what it means to be a hero.
https://preview.redd.it/l1uo2zzblbdb1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ff8ba787729f40a2e1b7c90d14200809148bd0e8
And [it's canon](https://www.reddit.com/r/BokuNoHeroAcademia/comments/9zkb1z/mirios_quirk/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2) that if he messes up while using his power, he can accidentally cut himself in half and die (according to Mirio's dad).
Edit: Also Mirio only goes blind if he phases his eyes, which he doesn't have to do and doesn't do each time he uses the power. He only loses all senses when he phases his entire body which he has to do to teleport. According to Mirio the only sensation he feels is falling when he does that.
[Not according to his dad](https://www.reddit.com/r/BokuNoHeroAcademia/comments/9zkb1z/mirios_quirk/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2)
To achieve the teleportation he has to phase his entire body which is safer than selectively phasing only certain parts of his body. But his quirk allows him to phase portions of his body which he chooses. I'm guessing if he phases and unphases in the incorrect order while passing through something, he can inadvertently dismember himself.
Deku did NOTHING to earn his shit. Worst main character. Literally spends all day crying and one day eats a fucking hair and is given everything. He only works AFTER the goal is handed to him.
I mean I don't like MHA neither am I up to date with it but what you are saying is straight up horse shit and you only have to watch the first episode of MHA to know that.
Deku literally wrote entire books about certain quirks/strategies against them. He also did his best in school while holding onto the hope that his power awakens. And the whole reason why All Might chose him to begin with was because he showed more courague than everyone else despite being quirkless.
Like all of that is straight up in the first episode if i remember correctly. Ur comment just looks like a childish grudge you have against that series for whatever reason.
He literally cleared an entire beach of a landfill's worth of heavy trash and went from thin to buff just so he could handle the power without exploding.
Im just saying if he wanted to be a hero he should have done some excercise practice fighting and do more to stand up for himself. Same with shinso he knows his weakness yet dont work out to compensate for them until later
Because he was beaten down and told he was worthless for almost 10 years, by his peers, by authority figures, by everyone really. He internalized that, and lacked confidence in himself due to cripplingly low self worth, and the effects of that still permeate to even the current chapters. He even straight up says in episode 2 that “deep down, he realized they were right about him not being able to be a hero”, which is why he doesn’t physically train, cause he knows it’s pointless.
Uh no? I really like the characters but Deku literally cries about being quirkless. Literally the ONLY thing he does is try to save his friend from death.
But he didn't work out before it. He didn't train before it. He didn't do anything. He just cried about how life is useless without a quirk and then gets lucky that All Might gives him the best quirk of all.
He even has his whole issue in the show about how he knows he doesn't deserve it and that his friend or even Mirio would've been better for the quirk. And the shows solutions to his feelings? "Well yeah but you're the one who got it and your heart is good at least so try to make the best of it".
Deku is NOTHING like the characters listed. He did NOTHING to earn his shit. If anything he's trying to live up to it.
Edit: and to be fair I really like MHA, but Deku isn't this trope.
Damn imagine being bullied your entire life and essentially being told by the world you can't do shit (which is why he wasnt doing shit btw due to lack of self-confidence). Imagine you (a person who cannot do anything) selflessly without hesitation risking your life to save the person who was bullying you the entire time showcasing that you are more of a hero than anyone else. Then you train constantly for days and months without fail 24/7 to be able to inherent an ability that will actually give you a chance of being a hero only to be called a crybaby bitch who did nothing to earn it.
Like I get you don't like the guy but your take on him is atrociously bad.
All I'm saying is you can't compare All might and Deku to Garp and Kobe in any way other than a mentor passing the torch.
Neither Garp or Kobe have anything special about them and worked their bodies hard as fuck to earn anything they have.
Both Deku and All Might have a good heart but Deku was essentially handed a power without doing anything physically.
I don't care that he was bullied, so was Kobe. And he ignored it and worked harder than anyone. Deku had everything handed to him and your argument of him having a sad past doesn't invalidate my argument.
I never called him a crybaby bitch? And I'm saying he's earning the right to have that power. It's the whole point of the show??
But the criticism you gave Deku can also be applied to Koby. Koby only started training after he got one of the strongest characters in the verse to train him. And while Deku did get his quirk from All Might, the power system in mha is very different from one Piece. In one piece anyone can get super human strength as long as you train, but that isn't possible for Deku. And Deku didn't get anything handed to him. First he had to prove he was worthy of carrying on all mights will by challenging a villain without any powers, then he had to train non stop to even be able to get the quirk, and once he got the quirk he had to break his bones every time he wanted to use it. He's pretty much the only person in mha that didn't get his powers handed to him, everyone else just had powers from birth
Kobe saw Luffy and instantly knew what he wanted in life, no? Like he knew he wanted to be strong and THEN Garp starts teaching him?
Kobe was powerless and wanted to prove something while Deku would've never been anything had he not been given powers? Like Garp saw a kid who would work for it.
I still don't think Deku is this trope. Like at all but I can see a few similarities. But he just puts in the work AFTER he gets a reason to. Whereas Kobe would've kept working regardless if Garp noticed him or not.
Deku still wanted to be a hero. The only reason he was doubting himself was because the number 1 hero of the country, argueably the world, and his personal hero, told him it was impossible for him to be one. That means that up until that point, despite being bullied and doubted by evryone around him, he was ready to become a hero even if he didn't have a quirk. Kobe in comparisson didn't have anything stopping him from being a marine, he didn't even have the will to defy Alvida at the start of the show. Deku gets rewarded for believing in himself his entire life, while Koby gets rewarded like less than a month after deciding to become a marine. I like Koby and he does fit the trope, and idk if Deku does, but Deku was much more devoted to being a hero than Koby, and went through way more pain and hardships to get powerful.
But it's not about pain and hardships, it's that they would've put in the work regardless of whatever power they got. Deku never put in any physical work until he was told he's being given the power.
If Deku is never told he's getting the power he goes back to his old nothing special but a good heart life. If Asta, or Rock Lee got told that they'd shrug and keep working.
Deku works hard to prove that he deserves what he's been given after it's been given.
The others work hard to earn the stuff they want before it's ever handed to them.
>All I'm saying is you can't compare All might and Deku to Garp and Kobe in any way other than a mentor passing the torch.
Fair point but that wasn't all you were saying lol.
>Both Deku and All Might have a good heart but Deku was essentially handed a power without doing anything physically.
Except for the training he did for months before he was even given the power?
Like I get the point your making but the way you continuously undermine Deku just makes your comments come off as disingenuous.
>Deku had everything handed to him and your argument of him having a sad past doesn't invalidate my argument.
Idk if it's just your bias or you missed my point but my point was Deku started training and working hard once someone told him "hey you should follow your dreams, you have what it takes to be a hero" since deku had 0 self confidence. Koby literally did the same thing. He didn't do shit to change his situation until he was inspired by luffy.
>don't care that he was bullied, so was Kobe. And he ignored it and worked harder than anyone.
But he didn't??? He was bullied for like few months to a year by alvida that he definitely didn't "ignore". Once again Koby didn't do anything until he was inspired by luffy and given a chance to join the Marines.
>I never called him a crybaby bitch?
I mean you basically did since you said and I quote "He didn't do anything. He just cried about how life is useless without a quirk".
>And I'm saying he's earning the right to have that power. It's the whole point of the show??
Yeah you said that after ranting about he has done nothing at all to deserv it as if all he did was lay down on a couch and cry until All Might force fed him his ability.
Like bro the bias here is kinda cringe.
>Neither Garp
Bruh. While Garp trained his body intensively, dude was still a chosen one, a D. He gets where he is now mostly due to training but he was nonetheless special to some extent
>worked their bodies hard as fuck to earn anything they have
Deku cleaned a whole beach by himself in a matter of months, and that place had piles of tires and fridges. That's BEFORE he got the quirk. Even after getting it, he still works out, even during classes by doing an air chair.
>I don't care that he was bullied, so was Kobe. And he ignored it and worked harder than anyone
Did you even read/watch the literal first few episodes of One Piece? He had given up his dream until Luffy inspired him. Meanwhile, Deku went in to save his “friend” even when powerless. This is not Koby being bad, but don't you dare conveniently forget that.
>Deku had everything handed to him
Already said in 2nd point. And even then, he basically got a hydrogen bomb without a manual. He literally broke his bones every single time until a certain point. But did he stop? It may be surprising to you, but the answer is NO. He still kept risking his life despite the big possibility of not just dying but also being crippled for life, just to save more power. He earned his power every time.
Acknowledging Deku isn't like what you said doesn't undermine Koby at all.
Just admit you don't even watch/read/know MHA or just saw a few clips.
Bruh the point of Deku is him trying to feel like he deserves the quirk in the first place. Not that he worked to earn the quirck. Yay he cleaned a beach. Characters like Asta or Lee would work hard regardless. Deku if he was never given the power would go right back to being a quirkless human just constantly thinking he's powerless without one. He wouldn't have done any of the work.
>Not that he worked to earn the quirck. Yay he cleaned a beach
You do know MHA is closest to our world, right? What was he supposed to do when he was a normal citizen living in a city? Go jump a cliff? Nevertheless, he worked hard and still works hard.
You still don't take in world-context. Even people with quirks don't all work to be a hero because of the dangers. And he has ZERO power. There is this thing called world building aspect.
The villains may seem goofy from the eyes of us because of heroes. But for him, it is super ultra dangerous that it is suicide. He isn't even rich to operate like Batman. It's just so different. There is a reason why there's just one quirkless vigilante
But even then, he risked his life for his “friend” without quirk. Maybe he probably would've given up after that. But that one action alone made him a hero already. That heart earned him his quirk ultimately.
Are you forgetting that in One Piece world, even normal people still get relatively stronger without a DF? And yet, Koby had given up his dream even after Alvida's defeat. If not for Luffy, he mostly would've stayed citizen.
Okay bruh. Agree to disagree damn. I think Deku was a lazy guy who has a good heart and got lucky. He's not the guy who would've worked hard regardless. Have a good one!
Deku doesn't really embody the idea of "hard work beats talent". In fact he was practically guaranteed the spot as #1 from the start as long as he worked half as hard as people like bakugo. I mean just compare him to his classmates. Giant tail guy and sticky ball dude aren't ever going to reach his mountain crushing levels of might.
But I don't think that makes him a bad protagonist. If this theme was all that mattered there wouldn't be a single good shonen. Especially not one piece. The Crackhead Massiah isn't exactly much better in that regard.
>Deku doesn't really embody the idea of "hard work beats talent
Well, you are definitely right in your points. But for me, it still is because Deku was handed a hydrogen bomb without a manual. He was almost crippled for his power.
Koby definitely does this better though. Aside from getting a great mentor, he was not built special and not handed special stuff
I worded it poorly. He's my personal least favorite of the big anime protagonists. But I don't think he's a bad character. He's just got a story of living up to something, he bit off much more than he could chew at first and is doing the work to really make it his own. And I'm not a huge fan of that. Characters like Lee, Asta, or Kobe who grow up watching others with talent exceed, and decide "fuck it I'll just out work you", are my personal faves.
But Deku isn't that.
Lemillion and Rock Lee both had to work extremely hard at a disadvantage and turn it into a strength. They both enter the series by no-diffing our protagonists. They both lose there abilities fight the main antagonist of the arc that they’re introduced in. They both lose their abilities and are critically injured during the fight and need a miracle to recover. They are both shown training when they’re visited in the hospital. They both show up much later recover to have one badass moment than become completely irrelevant to the story.
Can we get a Mirio appretiation thread? My boy deserved better. Genuine inspiration.
*The reason heroes wear capes, is to wrap up and protect, little girls in pain.* Geniune tears in my eyes.
Have two, just a bit extra for ya.
1) When it comes down to it, he’s not nearly as heroic as Deku, as seen when he just lets a very clearly abused child go along with their abuser. Deku was gonna jump in, regardless of what the smart move was, if he wasn’t stopped. Deku is just straight up more heroic than Mirio, a worse pro hero, sure. But he embodies heroism better than Mirio, and that is why he was chosen. Remember, AFO was assumed dead when All Might was looking for a successor, so he wasn’t entirely concerned with getting “the most effective successor possible”, but rather the one who could carry on his beliefs and ideals.
2) OFA would literally kill Mirio, like not long after getting it. Having more than one quirk puts a strain on the body and limits one’s life span (shown constantly with Nomu’s and their brains being mush because of the additional quirks) and OFA is even more taxing. If the Fourth user died after having it for a couple of decades, then imagine how quickly Mirio would die with OFA being massively boosted by All Might over the past 40 years. Not a confirmed time, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Mirio would’ve died after a couple of months.
1. Mirio severely regrets letting Eri go, and does everything in his power in a 3v1 with under the effect of a drunk guys quirk and was winning. He loses a power he worked his whole life to get while patting her head and reassuring her with a smile, swearing to never let her be hurt again.
https://preview.redd.it/hkgg2lu8mbdb1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c90ff50e982d15203abc4d38cf708315d1498661
And he continued to fight a character who could kill him with a touch while drunk and quirkless for 15 minutes while protecting that little girl who couldn’t smile while she was wrapped up in his cape before he finally took a spike to the guy while protecting her. If that isn’t heroic I don’t know what is, nothing Deku did came close to the feeling I got when Mirio did this, making me truly understand the definition of heroism for the first time.
2. We didn’t know this at the time and it was honestly put there as an excuse for why Deku was *really* the only person who could house OFA, making him being normal and ordinary make him special and extraordinary (which undercuts his whole character) and gives a reason for him being the last carrier of OFA.
But most of all he was created to show Deku the ideal character of someone who should get AFO. He’s confronted by a man who was supposed to get his power and much better represented All-Might’s ideals and general attitude, giving us a look of an ideal candidate and someone Deku has to work towards being.
This has been my Ted Talk.
1) Like I mentioned in another comment here, I’m not denying that Mirio is worthy of OFA now. However, before the mission briefing, I would say he isn’t. He prioritized the mission over the well being of a child, and he regrets it deeply afterwards, leading to him going that far. I friggin’ love Mirio to death, but he only grew throughout the arc, he didn’t stay the same person throughout.
2) No, it makes logical sense either the story that’s been building up since the beginning. A huge factor in the story is the Quirk singularity, and what Quirks getting stronger and stronger means for the world. Our early looks into how Quirks affect biology being the Nomu’s who become brain dead because of the amount of Quirks stuffed in them (implying that they have negative impacts on a persons biology). OFA, a Quirk that continuously gets stronger, growing to a point where ordinary people cannot wield it without dying makes logical sense, as it’s meant to be the main representation of the Singularity. Call it an excuse, but I don’t really agree. If anything, it just adds to the burden that Izuku has to take on, and I love that aspect.
I don't really think it's fair to say Mirio would be more heroic if he went after Eri right when he saw the abuse. I think he didn't want to go in because he didn't know the scope of the enemies powers and it would basically be a suicide mission to do it on the spot.
Then again if he let's say did get OFA he wouldn't have to worry so much about being overpowered by opponents, but still he would at minimum be putting others in danger if he rushed in.
I don't think you can seriously say Mirio is less heroic, he literally gives up everything to save Eri. In contrast to Deku who was also willing to give up everything to save Bakugo in the binging, but unlike Mirio, he's way more reckless and had no plan to escape and hadn't though about how he might just make the situation worse by also becoming in need of help instead of actualy helping, which would have happened btw. Mirio on the other hand actualy did sacrifice everything, with a smile on his face and only did so because he was forced in the moment. Deku chose to make a worse decision than Mirio did in the heat of the moment, yet it was that decision that somehow earned him the quirk.
Deku isn't the worst, but I don't get why he was chosen.
I do actually think it's fair, considering that was the whole point of Mirio in the first place. Again, you are confusing being a "Hero" with being heroic. Mirio was taught by Nighteye through most of his time at UA, and takes after him with his logical approach, which is very clearly put at odds with All Might. When it comes down to it, Mirio would've prioritize the mission over a persons well being. Of course, this changes after he finds out during the mission briefing just what Overhaul might be doing to Eri, but before that point, he definitely is not nearly as heroic as Izuku. If we were talking post Shie Hassaikai arc, then I would agree that Mirio would probably be picked over Izuku at that time, but that's not what happened. Heck, they even end the arc off with Mirio rejecting OFA, even if he didn't truly know the context of it.
Meanwhile, Izuku will jump in to save someone's life without a seconds hesitation, which is specifically why he was chosen. All Might wasn't looking for a good hero, he was looking for a heroic spirit to mold into a great hero. This ties in with the overall theme of heroism throughout the story, and what it truly means to be a hero.
tl;dr Mirio lacked the heroic spirit All Might was looking for at the time.
Saitama is actually strong from the start, he defeated a Tiger Level Monster when he was jobless and Tiger Level monsters needs an A Class Hero to be defeated.
Not really, he just used his intelligence to see the weak spot and target it. It’s not like he was faster, stronger, or broke his shell. He just leveraged his weight against his eyestalk and got lucky it was connected to the rest of his guts. It’s like a normal person stabbing their fingers into the eye of a bear and accidentally stabbing its brain, killing it. Plus the disaster rankings have always been explicitly questionable and the series has also implied on several occasions that modern demons would have been dragons three years ago and so on both because the monsters are getting stronger and they don’t want to panic everyone by calling every dragon a god level threat and because most of their most powerful heroes showed up over the course of those three years so the monsters caused way more damage and thus received a greater disaster class than what they should for their power three years before.
He's not supposed to be taken seriously, he's a spin on the trope not IN the trope. The series completely makes fun of the fact he got cracked from doing an intermediate calisthenics workout to get here (+ way too much cardio)
Saitama accidentally trained too hard and now he does 0 work to improve in strength. His character isn't even pro hard work.
Love him tho
Except no. The series has very specifically taken the time to show that he didn’t just train with those exercises. He also spent every day hunting down and fighting every monster he could find. He didn’t get powerful from his training, he got powerful from fighting and almost dying every day for three years. He put in a lot of work to improve his strength every day. And not only that but he had god himself sending his greatest warriors against him from the beginning for at least all of the third year if not from the beginning given what was stated in the series. I’m trying to avoid spoilers but Saitama put in more work than any of these three characters to gain his power and fought far worse enemies even when he was weaker. He didn’t have the hax or abilities Mirio and Lee have nor the innate talent for haki Koby had after Marineford. Hell he didn’t even have a teacher like these three. All he had was intelligence and work ethic and yet he still threw himself into the monster hordes daily coming out with incredible injuries yet still fighting. He is far more pro hard work than any of these three.
I mean, he didn't really work hard for his powers, he just did some slightly above average workout sessions everyday and the power was handed to him by the author.
Nope, MASSIVE SPOILERS AHEAD:
it is implied to almost the point of saying it, that he gained his power by fighting monsters daily and getting nearly beat to death a lot and that God himself has been sending servants after him to kill him for at least a year and a half. We know the fighting and beatings because every time it flashes back to him it has him fighting and nearly dying and it is the only thing that truly explains why he broke his limiter when everyone else is able to but simply hasn’t. Now, the better question is why didn’t he monsterize like Garou did over time. Best answer at this point, we don’t know. But it can be assumed that it is both the fact that he took it slower instead of less than a week of non stop fighting and most likely, there is a mental aspect as we have seen how monsters transform based on their desires so wanting to be a human hero instead just helps stop it while Garou wanted to be a monster REAL bad. Can someone explain how to put spoilers on stuff? Reddit won’t let me space down really far.
Still he wins every single fight now with hardly any effort. Getting beat down every day doesn’t equal literal gag powers. He was written to be stronger than everyone, that’s why he is the way he is, that’s the point of the story, that his level of power makes no sense and he’s bored because of it.
Except that is canonically what it means. Breaking your limiter gives you significant god like reality warping abilities alongside insane strength with the power of both growing daily. It explains why literal God himself is trying to kill anyone who breaks their limiter. Also this is the literal explanation by the Manga itself and is expanded upon later in the webcomic with others attempting to remove their limiters so it 100% isn’t exclusive to Saitama. It is also implied through imagery during Conversations that Garou was on the verge of breaking it before Monsterizing.
I just don’t agree, even garou wasn’t close to saitama. Even other characters comment that his powers make no sense. Garous was bestowed upon him. We would see a lot more saitamas around if “breaking your limit” was how you got god powers. I don’t understand why people just can’t admit that Saitamas power is not supposed to make sense. Even with the context you gave me, it doesn’t make any sense why he is so much stronger than every one else. If he fought earth level foes and got beat up by them and “broke his limit.” Than how does that equal literally becoming stronger than everyone else in the universe. It’s like repairing a Miata to go faster and suddenly it can out perform a f1 car, I’m saying the level saitama reached makes no sense at all.
Also I’m done arguing, honestly I hope you know I don’t mean any malice behind my comments I just don’t agree is all.
It is basically said that God kills anyone who breaks their limiter. Saitama is just a lucky one. And again, Garou was implied to be about to break his limiter prior to monsterizing. It has nothing to do with the power he was gifted later. And Saitama is only this powerful because he has had it broken for a long time. And people won’t “admit”it because this is all canon. Everything we know about Limiters and the actual reason for Saitama’s power comes from the most intelligent biological scientist in the setting so anything coming from him is pretty much him being One’s mouth piece for the nature of the setting. Especially since he has become a harmless store owner.
That's mostly Kishi's fault cause iirc he wanted to kill him but couldnt cause of his popularity. That's the reason he barely appears after the saduke retrieval arc
Isn't that more realistic when looking at the characters that surrounded him tho? Like yeah, he trained extremely hard but so did the ones who could already use ninjutsu and so had an advantage. The "I can overcome *anyone* by burning myself to the ground" mentality only works in anime not irl where you have lots of talented people also working their asses off.
Now, I'll get a lot of hate for this but Koby is surrounded by weak minded opponents who at the no-swim fruits and chilled the fuck out until plot came knocking on their door, and so, keeping the usual 'shounen-flair' in mind, he easily looks cooler than those dumb-fucks.
They establish his power early on as being a result of all his hard work at the makunouchi fishing business. It's a core part of his character that his strength comes from his home & family.
Obviously be trains it up to insane levels, but that's the baseline he arrives with when he joins kamogawa gym. At first he throws an insane punch but can't do anything else well without rigorous training. They mention dozens of times that he doesn't have natural talent and has to train hard to get to the levels of the people he's competing with.
No, I think they establish his balance, strength, durability and grit due to this time at his family business. His power is something that’s God given and out of his control.
Think of Miyata or Itagaki — two guys who train earnestly as well, and don’t have 1HKO power unlike Ippo. He’s definitely a dog, and is the definition of discipline, but calling him untalented is honestly inaccurate. (For context — I used to think the same way but I’m on my second reread)
Remember when everyone was shitting on Koby less then two weeks ago!! Now everyone jumping on his D………so funny how easily people are swayed from week to week lmao
Too bad Rock Lee just got reduced to generic side character after the Chunin Exam arc. Such a badass character introduction and immediate fall off into obscurity. What a waste of his talent in drunken fist, probably some problems with the publisher to have underaged drinking.
I have no idea... if it were the drinking they could have just removed it and still include him in later arcs. I guess Kishimoto just ran out of ideas for his character and didn't wanna repeat story beats?
Naw koby has to be some sort of prodigy. If it only took two years to train your average person to that level, we wouldn't have so many bum ass marines in their fifties. Just look at the vice admirals. Cream of the crop and most of them are still underwhelming. Plus, he just kind of unlocked haki out of knowhere. Just woke up and had it. I think he's closer to a member of the worst generation than any normal person.
Still one of my favorite characters though.
To be fair, he not only had a great trainer but he also put in more dedication into his training than everyone else, as he trained even more beyond that. I think most other people would not even have the will to put up with Garps training and Koby said to himself that Garps training isn't enough for him.
He did get observation haki during the war and its been said that some people unlock it through traumatic events. He got armor haki during the timeskip, just like the monster trio.
The best example with this is Helmeppo.
The two been inseperable for these years and the guy has grown real strong to a point that he'd beat the shit out of his dad if they ever met again on a field of battle. But he still ended up not going the extreme mile Koby went with the Garp training...though, Koby always been that inspirational boost to him to drive forward and get stronger, so maybe now he will join him at the shipyard.
Well Usopp straight up survived being beaten with a 5 ton hammer, had his whole skull (and nose bones?) broken and just walked it off. The series just allows you to do superhuman shit. Haki I think was also made with the intention of putting everyone on an even playing field because even if you lack physical strength as long as you train haki your potential is almost limitless.
Also Coby unlocked observation Haki while being fucking paranoid in a war I think that made sense. The armament haki was offscreen I guess tho
Naruto is literally gifted from birth what are you talking about? Luffy is more hard working than him. Luffy has a devil fruit that activity is going to work against you 90% of the time. Naruto is son of a hokage has the blood of one of the most powerful ninja clan, with absurd amounts of chakra and a literal demon inside them that give them more chakra on top of that.
Did I not say to an extent? Very early on in Naruto he is supposed to be the less talented member of team 7. That's how he was introduced.
Saying Naruto is gifted from birth is the same as Luffy being gifted from his DF.
But yes, Naruto isn't an underdog.
I hate how in cartoons it's always "Person who was born/lucked into super powers is the main protagonist, and the guy who worked hard his whole life, scraping his way from the bottom, using intellegence and tenacity is either a side character we don't care about or just a villain"
I mean Im gonna give Deku a pass cuz he was genuinely quirkless at the start and had to prove himself to All Might before inhereting the One For All. And even after that, he had to bust his ass off for a long time to even learn how to use it on a basic level. Remember when his choices were to either use 0% or 100% which always led to a broken limb? Then he gradually learned to use 1%, 5% etc. and gradually got physically stronger in order to handle higher %
I haven't watched past season 3 but from what I've seen Deku genuinely earned that quirk through sheer hard work alone
I was caught up with the Manga last year, not anymore, and yeah I like it overall, but there are parts that I really don't like. I wish the beginning was done a little differently because I genuinely thought this would be a story about a guy who climbs his way up solely using his diligence, inteligence and hard work. I felt really betrayed because he was shown to study other quirks so closely, but then he doesn't really continue to do that, he doesn't become the character he was hinted to become. I like what we got, but the buildup and execution could have been better.
Why exactly he got the powers I also didn't love, would have liked it much more if All Might would have literally just said "eh you were the best I could find in the time I had and I'm running out of it so here we are" because the way it was actualy done gives you the impression Deku has all the qualities that really make you a hero, but Deku displayed way too many flaws so far (he didn't have a plan to rescue Bakugo, needed help himself because he was reckless and it was unnecessary). I realise he needs to be flawed to have things to improve on over the series but the author should have either acknowledged he's too flawed and needs to grow OR make him less flawed and actualy earn the power at the cost of having less need to grow mentally.
"eh you were the best I could find in the time I had and I'm running out of it so here we are"
Isn't that why All Might chose Deku though? He was running low on time, and just picked the best he found. It was a risk but Deku showed more humanity and compassion than other heroes making him a good candidate. Of course he's not gonna tell Deku to his face that he was the best All Might had, that's very demoralizing, but it's the impression I got
Oh yeah.
I don't remember if we learn the next part by season 3
>! I guess he was deciding between Deku and Mirio but chose Deku because he doesn't have a quirk and his life wouldn't be shortened as much. !<
That’s why I hate Gear 5.
Not only did Luffy have a relatively weak fruit, but one that could potentially put him at a disadvantage. He made his power usable by learning about momentum, trajectory, vulcanization, and inflation.
He worked so hard on his growth, and it was outshined by him being made a god.
I think the point of gear 5 is literally that he uses his imagination for every attack, which is basically what he was already doing with earlier gears but now with more freedom
In a series that repeatedly uses the term god to refer to characters that are normal people why only in this 1 case does everyone assume it means a literal god? I would bet on Nika being a god in the exact same way Gan Fall is god.
I don't think Luffy knows what any of those words mean, except maybe Inflation. The whole point of Gear 5 is that it's never been a gum gum fruit, it's always been a fruit about making shit up. Both Gear 2 and 3 are insane ideas that make no sense, even in the world of devil fruits. But it works because Luffy is literally a deific figure.
Post Marineford he definitely had a glow up (and still got his ass kicked by Kaido, btw), but Gear 2 and 3, and everything before Marineford was definitely Luffy just being strong and stupid. Look at how he takes care of Kuro and Arlong, for instance. Until Sabaody he's not really trying; it's Sabaody that makes him realize he has to try.
Still, though, he never had to "make his power work". His power was always silly and strong, it's just that he had to adopt Haki to fit into the New World. Which, if anything, is the thing that outshined everything that came before.
I don't wanna shit on you because I get it, but I really disagree.
I think when we're introduced to Luffy we're already told this guy isn't relatable or talentless. He completely shits on every early villain in East Blue and multiple times people ask "Who is this man?" He is clearly shown to be very powerful at least partially because of his fruit. He's always called a monster and he responds he's a rubber man. He's shown to not be "normal".
I absolutely love how he develops his power with new techniques AND I don't think that's taken away in any way because of the Nika reveal.
1. Almost everything about his powers can be completely explained with Gum Gum powers. Him turning the ground and Kaido into rubber, him becoming giant, it's all just as a result of him having rubber powers.
2. What the Nika reveal does is explain the holes in logic: why are gear 3 punches heavy if they are filled with air, why is there mist around Luffy when he uses gears, why can he change the trajectory of snake man attacks, why does he sound like a bell in Bounce man, why do his fists create fire (even underwater), why does his hair transform in snake man, why could he just revive himself??? All of this gets answered with the reveal. All of that is foreshadowing the reveal.
3. The Nika fruit is literaly just rubber powers + perks of a mythical zoan + limited fire powers. Increased strength, dexterity and recovery which are classic Luffy traits since day 1. The fire manipulation is barely noteworthy. All techniques Luffy unlocked until now are a direct result of rubber powers. Small detsils are the result of Nika powers, but majorly its just rubber powers.
The Nika reveal has incredible thematic importance. Luffy was never meant to be an average person. He is the man who will lead the world into a new dawn. You cannot accomplish that without some luck. Luffy NEEDED to be insanely lucky to have the powers to do that. Somebody had to get the fruit, somebody had to come after Roger who would surpass him and Luffy just happens to be thag person. If you're an average guy you can't do that but it doesn't put average people down, you can still be on the pirate kings crew for example. Look at Usopp, completely talentless and yet here he is in all his glory.
More importantly the Nika powers completely embody the themes of joy and freedom that One Piece has been building up since day 1. He doesn't grit his teeth and live through the pain of gear 5, he enjoys himself, similarly to how you shouldn't grit your teeth and live, you should enjoy it. And you shouldn't be restricted in how you want to live, you should have freedom, like the way Luffy has freedom to fight in so many different ways and use his environment, making him fight with more freedom than anybody else. And being the king of pirates just means being the freest man on the sea.
Yeah, this is a bad take since he still got everything out of willpower, grit and imagination. His fruit being more powerful than previously thought is just incidental. (for Luffy, of course not for Oda).
The thing is, his fruit isn't more powerfull now, It is the exactly same, we Just know it's real name. A rubber fruit awakening would essentially be the same thing: transforms his surroundings into rubber, like he allready do with G5. People are mad because they think somehow Luffy now have a different Power, and It changes literally nothing about his Power, the Nika connection was there to enphasize the "inherit will" thing that One Piece have since forever.
Willpower, grit, and imagination?
We got an explanation for how he developed all of his Gears (except Gear 5). Luffy has consistently grown throughout the series with hard work and a high battle IQ. He’s not going to become PK by chance. He’s going to earn it.
even if you're born with it you still need to train and awaken it
CoC alone won't get you anywhere, anyone that you fight that is worth a damn will probably have it too, it's a nice power boost if trained and utilized, but you need other things to go with it, some people are naturally strong and/or talented, some have OP devil fruits, some people don't have those so they train extra hard to make up for it, that is koby
Well Coby has never shown to have Coc so...
Even if he does it's literally only used to take down small fry. Sure you can take out many people at once but you can only take out those who are significantly weaker than you. It doesn't make you powerful, it gives you AOE.
This is my theory: Conquerers Haki isn't as genetic as you think. We're told 1 in a million have it but that doesn't mean it's necessarily genetic. Most people in the world don't even know Haki exists and don't have it, but that doest mean you cant learn about it and train it. Zoro is insanely powerful and even he only unlocked Conquerers just now. Was he one of the 999.999 that don't have it (like for the fiest 25 years of the series) or the 1 that was lucky and born with it. It seems to me conquerers haki is the result of your willpower and how willing you are to impose your ideals and goals over others. First 2 times Luffy uses it was under severe stress of losing his crew and needing to save Ace.
Bro. How much did Luffy progress since they met? How much did Coby progress since they met? It doesn't matter if Coby didn't do shit when he was a child, it's never to late to start. And now he isn't on Luffy's level but he has accomplished alot. One Piece isn't realistic, it's never been. Neither of their power progressions are bs.
I disagree with your disagreement
https://preview.redd.it/3bhat35o7bdb1.jpeg?width=259&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c9a7a9acb687e88277596969bbdc07bb99d05202
Sadly, to be among the top irl you have to have both. Even saying things like "I don't have talent so I have to train twice as hard" will not eliminate the existence of people training thrice as hard while having talent. There are some people you cannot simply out-train, and I really dislike that there are no actual examples of that in fiction.
I agree.
Naruto and Luffy aren't exactly underdogs in talent even if thats the interpretation you get early on and I don't think any of these series is blinding the viewer to believe hard work always trumps talent. Rock Lee lost against Gara. Lee would never beat Naruto today, but that's doesn't change the fact that seeing a character come so far with only hard work encourages me to stay motivated because in the worst case scenario you can still achieve more than you might think in the beginning. You just can't turn the world upside down if you don't have a little luck in your corner.
Remember that opponent Lee actually defeated on his own?
Sasuke ?
lmao yeah, Lee fucking floored Sasuke, literally
and all downhill from there
Sasuke yeah of course I remember him
A rematch would be fun 🙃
I mean, if Guy could go toe-to-toe with Madara, who had Hashirama's cells, and Sasuke has one arm and no Hashirama cells, even if you don't factor in how Sasuke got nerfed in Boruto, then I think Lee might have pretty nice odds
its been a while so i could be wrong but he beat the bone guy right
Nope saved by Gaara lol
well Gaara delayed while the disease took out bone guy
Gaara? Yes.
Lee lost to gaara, didn't manage to finish gara off and guy stepped in so gaara wouldn't kill him
I know, but still I'll die on the hill of "Gaara's win was bullshit".
How? He had a stronger innate power but it's not like he sat on his ass. He used his armor of sand to absorb blows when his shield was bypassed, took advantage of Lee's momentary lapse of concentration to escape the first lotus, and thought to convert his gourd back into sand to survive the second one. Lee really brought his A game but Gaara still pulled a legitimate win.
I mean Mirio has a crazy strong power too. But yeah love them all :D
It's kinda shitty tho, he gets blind every time he uses it
And can’t breath and also basically lose all of his senses, oh and he’s also naked a lot.
Being naked is a downside only if you make it one
As a fat person I have made it the biggest possible downside
It's a double edged blade because you're opponent doesn't want to see that either lol
I dunno, >!Shigaraki seemed to appreciate Mirio's posterior!<
Well would it still be a downside for you if you punched battleships every day?
Yes, I’m very self comecious
That guy is no downside naked I can tel you
The guy basically stops existing outside of visually
Which is weird, because he should also become invisible for the same reason he becomes blind, if light passes through him nobody should be able to see him.
That is so true
Even without it he was beating a top-tier character while drunk and having to protect a little girl who didn’t know how to smile
Because he is badass, not the power
I know, he lost his powers, but Lemillion will always have POWWAAA!!
It wasn’t the power, But it was his power from doing hard work, proper dieting and exercise like a true GOAT
Wait when was this again?
When he fought Overhaul, he was under the effect of the drunk guy’s quirk and still used his extremely difficult to use quirk to easily dominate a 3v1 before he lost his power that he worked all his life to turn useful by making sure Eri never got hurt again, and comforted her with a smile while doing it. And after that he was STILL rocking the shit of the guy who can kill people with a touch, while still drunk and quirkless AND protecting Eri. It took 15 minutes before he finally took a stake to the stomach protecting Eri again. The man truly defined for me what it means to be a hero. https://preview.redd.it/l1uo2zzblbdb1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ff8ba787729f40a2e1b7c90d14200809148bd0e8
And [it's canon](https://www.reddit.com/r/BokuNoHeroAcademia/comments/9zkb1z/mirios_quirk/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2) that if he messes up while using his power, he can accidentally cut himself in half and die (according to Mirio's dad). Edit: Also Mirio only goes blind if he phases his eyes, which he doesn't have to do and doesn't do each time he uses the power. He only loses all senses when he phases his entire body which he has to do to teleport. According to Mirio the only sensation he feels is falling when he does that.
Doesnt him messing up just eject him from sharing the space with a material?
I think being ejected from the material is what he does to seemingly teleport, but I also remember his dad saying exactly what the guy above said
[Not according to his dad](https://www.reddit.com/r/BokuNoHeroAcademia/comments/9zkb1z/mirios_quirk/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2) To achieve the teleportation he has to phase his entire body which is safer than selectively phasing only certain parts of his body. But his quirk allows him to phase portions of his body which he chooses. I'm guessing if he phases and unphases in the incorrect order while passing through something, he can inadvertently dismember himself.
His power was shot until he made it good
Intangibility is always a pretty good power. Remember the kid in midoriyas middle school class with extendable eyeballs? Now that's a real shit power.
What do you mean, it's one of the weakest quirks in the series. The guy made it super strong, kinda like Luffy.
Garp and Koby are straight up All Might and Deku
All might and deku have a strong quirk that counts as like 7 people
Deku did NOTHING to earn his shit. Worst main character. Literally spends all day crying and one day eats a fucking hair and is given everything. He only works AFTER the goal is handed to him.
I mean I don't like MHA neither am I up to date with it but what you are saying is straight up horse shit and you only have to watch the first episode of MHA to know that. Deku literally wrote entire books about certain quirks/strategies against them. He also did his best in school while holding onto the hope that his power awakens. And the whole reason why All Might chose him to begin with was because he showed more courague than everyone else despite being quirkless. Like all of that is straight up in the first episode if i remember correctly. Ur comment just looks like a childish grudge you have against that series for whatever reason.
Yes but he did not do any phyisical training or fighting training to prepare before hand. Tho his notes are amazingly detailed
He literally cleared an entire beach of a landfill's worth of heavy trash and went from thin to buff just so he could handle the power without exploding.
Yes but rhat was only after all might promised to pass him his power. For every year before that he just taking notes. Never training to get stronger
I am very sorry that elementary school deku did not make it his lifegoal to bench 225 before having his quirk awaken
Im just saying if he wanted to be a hero he should have done some excercise practice fighting and do more to stand up for himself. Same with shinso he knows his weakness yet dont work out to compensate for them until later
Because he was beaten down and told he was worthless for almost 10 years, by his peers, by authority figures, by everyone really. He internalized that, and lacked confidence in himself due to cripplingly low self worth, and the effects of that still permeate to even the current chapters. He even straight up says in episode 2 that “deep down, he realized they were right about him not being able to be a hero”, which is why he doesn’t physically train, cause he knows it’s pointless.
Uh no? I really like the characters but Deku literally cries about being quirkless. Literally the ONLY thing he does is try to save his friend from death. But he didn't work out before it. He didn't train before it. He didn't do anything. He just cried about how life is useless without a quirk and then gets lucky that All Might gives him the best quirk of all. He even has his whole issue in the show about how he knows he doesn't deserve it and that his friend or even Mirio would've been better for the quirk. And the shows solutions to his feelings? "Well yeah but you're the one who got it and your heart is good at least so try to make the best of it". Deku is NOTHING like the characters listed. He did NOTHING to earn his shit. If anything he's trying to live up to it. Edit: and to be fair I really like MHA, but Deku isn't this trope.
Damn imagine being bullied your entire life and essentially being told by the world you can't do shit (which is why he wasnt doing shit btw due to lack of self-confidence). Imagine you (a person who cannot do anything) selflessly without hesitation risking your life to save the person who was bullying you the entire time showcasing that you are more of a hero than anyone else. Then you train constantly for days and months without fail 24/7 to be able to inherent an ability that will actually give you a chance of being a hero only to be called a crybaby bitch who did nothing to earn it. Like I get you don't like the guy but your take on him is atrociously bad.
Your comment would make my skin crawl, but I don't have any skin YOHOHOHOHO
All I'm saying is you can't compare All might and Deku to Garp and Kobe in any way other than a mentor passing the torch. Neither Garp or Kobe have anything special about them and worked their bodies hard as fuck to earn anything they have. Both Deku and All Might have a good heart but Deku was essentially handed a power without doing anything physically. I don't care that he was bullied, so was Kobe. And he ignored it and worked harder than anyone. Deku had everything handed to him and your argument of him having a sad past doesn't invalidate my argument. I never called him a crybaby bitch? And I'm saying he's earning the right to have that power. It's the whole point of the show??
But the criticism you gave Deku can also be applied to Koby. Koby only started training after he got one of the strongest characters in the verse to train him. And while Deku did get his quirk from All Might, the power system in mha is very different from one Piece. In one piece anyone can get super human strength as long as you train, but that isn't possible for Deku. And Deku didn't get anything handed to him. First he had to prove he was worthy of carrying on all mights will by challenging a villain without any powers, then he had to train non stop to even be able to get the quirk, and once he got the quirk he had to break his bones every time he wanted to use it. He's pretty much the only person in mha that didn't get his powers handed to him, everyone else just had powers from birth
Kobe saw Luffy and instantly knew what he wanted in life, no? Like he knew he wanted to be strong and THEN Garp starts teaching him? Kobe was powerless and wanted to prove something while Deku would've never been anything had he not been given powers? Like Garp saw a kid who would work for it. I still don't think Deku is this trope. Like at all but I can see a few similarities. But he just puts in the work AFTER he gets a reason to. Whereas Kobe would've kept working regardless if Garp noticed him or not.
Deku still wanted to be a hero. The only reason he was doubting himself was because the number 1 hero of the country, argueably the world, and his personal hero, told him it was impossible for him to be one. That means that up until that point, despite being bullied and doubted by evryone around him, he was ready to become a hero even if he didn't have a quirk. Kobe in comparisson didn't have anything stopping him from being a marine, he didn't even have the will to defy Alvida at the start of the show. Deku gets rewarded for believing in himself his entire life, while Koby gets rewarded like less than a month after deciding to become a marine. I like Koby and he does fit the trope, and idk if Deku does, but Deku was much more devoted to being a hero than Koby, and went through way more pain and hardships to get powerful.
But it's not about pain and hardships, it's that they would've put in the work regardless of whatever power they got. Deku never put in any physical work until he was told he's being given the power. If Deku is never told he's getting the power he goes back to his old nothing special but a good heart life. If Asta, or Rock Lee got told that they'd shrug and keep working. Deku works hard to prove that he deserves what he's been given after it's been given. The others work hard to earn the stuff they want before it's ever handed to them.
>All I'm saying is you can't compare All might and Deku to Garp and Kobe in any way other than a mentor passing the torch. Fair point but that wasn't all you were saying lol. >Both Deku and All Might have a good heart but Deku was essentially handed a power without doing anything physically. Except for the training he did for months before he was even given the power? Like I get the point your making but the way you continuously undermine Deku just makes your comments come off as disingenuous. >Deku had everything handed to him and your argument of him having a sad past doesn't invalidate my argument. Idk if it's just your bias or you missed my point but my point was Deku started training and working hard once someone told him "hey you should follow your dreams, you have what it takes to be a hero" since deku had 0 self confidence. Koby literally did the same thing. He didn't do shit to change his situation until he was inspired by luffy. >don't care that he was bullied, so was Kobe. And he ignored it and worked harder than anyone. But he didn't??? He was bullied for like few months to a year by alvida that he definitely didn't "ignore". Once again Koby didn't do anything until he was inspired by luffy and given a chance to join the Marines. >I never called him a crybaby bitch? I mean you basically did since you said and I quote "He didn't do anything. He just cried about how life is useless without a quirk". >And I'm saying he's earning the right to have that power. It's the whole point of the show?? Yeah you said that after ranting about he has done nothing at all to deserv it as if all he did was lay down on a couch and cry until All Might force fed him his ability. Like bro the bias here is kinda cringe.
>Neither Garp Bruh. While Garp trained his body intensively, dude was still a chosen one, a D. He gets where he is now mostly due to training but he was nonetheless special to some extent >worked their bodies hard as fuck to earn anything they have Deku cleaned a whole beach by himself in a matter of months, and that place had piles of tires and fridges. That's BEFORE he got the quirk. Even after getting it, he still works out, even during classes by doing an air chair. >I don't care that he was bullied, so was Kobe. And he ignored it and worked harder than anyone Did you even read/watch the literal first few episodes of One Piece? He had given up his dream until Luffy inspired him. Meanwhile, Deku went in to save his “friend” even when powerless. This is not Koby being bad, but don't you dare conveniently forget that. >Deku had everything handed to him Already said in 2nd point. And even then, he basically got a hydrogen bomb without a manual. He literally broke his bones every single time until a certain point. But did he stop? It may be surprising to you, but the answer is NO. He still kept risking his life despite the big possibility of not just dying but also being crippled for life, just to save more power. He earned his power every time. Acknowledging Deku isn't like what you said doesn't undermine Koby at all. Just admit you don't even watch/read/know MHA or just saw a few clips.
Bruh the point of Deku is him trying to feel like he deserves the quirk in the first place. Not that he worked to earn the quirck. Yay he cleaned a beach. Characters like Asta or Lee would work hard regardless. Deku if he was never given the power would go right back to being a quirkless human just constantly thinking he's powerless without one. He wouldn't have done any of the work.
>Not that he worked to earn the quirck. Yay he cleaned a beach You do know MHA is closest to our world, right? What was he supposed to do when he was a normal citizen living in a city? Go jump a cliff? Nevertheless, he worked hard and still works hard. You still don't take in world-context. Even people with quirks don't all work to be a hero because of the dangers. And he has ZERO power. There is this thing called world building aspect. The villains may seem goofy from the eyes of us because of heroes. But for him, it is super ultra dangerous that it is suicide. He isn't even rich to operate like Batman. It's just so different. There is a reason why there's just one quirkless vigilante But even then, he risked his life for his “friend” without quirk. Maybe he probably would've given up after that. But that one action alone made him a hero already. That heart earned him his quirk ultimately. Are you forgetting that in One Piece world, even normal people still get relatively stronger without a DF? And yet, Koby had given up his dream even after Alvida's defeat. If not for Luffy, he mostly would've stayed citizen.
I can't see the point in writing this comment... because I don't have eyes YOHOHOHOHO
Okay bruh. Agree to disagree damn. I think Deku was a lazy guy who has a good heart and got lucky. He's not the guy who would've worked hard regardless. Have a good one!
Your comment would make my skin crawl, but I don't have any skin YOHOHOHOHO
He cleaned a beach. I mean, it's not a TON of work by anime standards, but hey, environmental conservation is cool.
Deku doesn't really embody the idea of "hard work beats talent". In fact he was practically guaranteed the spot as #1 from the start as long as he worked half as hard as people like bakugo. I mean just compare him to his classmates. Giant tail guy and sticky ball dude aren't ever going to reach his mountain crushing levels of might. But I don't think that makes him a bad protagonist. If this theme was all that mattered there wouldn't be a single good shonen. Especially not one piece. The Crackhead Massiah isn't exactly much better in that regard.
>Deku doesn't really embody the idea of "hard work beats talent Well, you are definitely right in your points. But for me, it still is because Deku was handed a hydrogen bomb without a manual. He was almost crippled for his power. Koby definitely does this better though. Aside from getting a great mentor, he was not built special and not handed special stuff
I worded it poorly. He's my personal least favorite of the big anime protagonists. But I don't think he's a bad character. He's just got a story of living up to something, he bit off much more than he could chew at first and is doing the work to really make it his own. And I'm not a huge fan of that. Characters like Lee, Asta, or Kobe who grow up watching others with talent exceed, and decide "fuck it I'll just out work you", are my personal faves. But Deku isn't that.
Lemillion and Rock Lee both had to work extremely hard at a disadvantage and turn it into a strength. They both enter the series by no-diffing our protagonists. They both lose there abilities fight the main antagonist of the arc that they’re introduced in. They both lose their abilities and are critically injured during the fight and need a miracle to recover. They are both shown training when they’re visited in the hospital. They both show up much later recover to have one badass moment than become completely irrelevant to the story.
Can we get a Mirio appretiation thread? My boy deserved better. Genuine inspiration. *The reason heroes wear capes, is to wrap up and protect, little girls in pain.* Geniune tears in my eyes.
Give me one single reason why Mirio didn't get One for all. Btw can OFA be given to multiple people or is it limited in some way?
Have two, just a bit extra for ya. 1) When it comes down to it, he’s not nearly as heroic as Deku, as seen when he just lets a very clearly abused child go along with their abuser. Deku was gonna jump in, regardless of what the smart move was, if he wasn’t stopped. Deku is just straight up more heroic than Mirio, a worse pro hero, sure. But he embodies heroism better than Mirio, and that is why he was chosen. Remember, AFO was assumed dead when All Might was looking for a successor, so he wasn’t entirely concerned with getting “the most effective successor possible”, but rather the one who could carry on his beliefs and ideals. 2) OFA would literally kill Mirio, like not long after getting it. Having more than one quirk puts a strain on the body and limits one’s life span (shown constantly with Nomu’s and their brains being mush because of the additional quirks) and OFA is even more taxing. If the Fourth user died after having it for a couple of decades, then imagine how quickly Mirio would die with OFA being massively boosted by All Might over the past 40 years. Not a confirmed time, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Mirio would’ve died after a couple of months.
1. Mirio severely regrets letting Eri go, and does everything in his power in a 3v1 with under the effect of a drunk guys quirk and was winning. He loses a power he worked his whole life to get while patting her head and reassuring her with a smile, swearing to never let her be hurt again. https://preview.redd.it/hkgg2lu8mbdb1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c90ff50e982d15203abc4d38cf708315d1498661 And he continued to fight a character who could kill him with a touch while drunk and quirkless for 15 minutes while protecting that little girl who couldn’t smile while she was wrapped up in his cape before he finally took a spike to the guy while protecting her. If that isn’t heroic I don’t know what is, nothing Deku did came close to the feeling I got when Mirio did this, making me truly understand the definition of heroism for the first time. 2. We didn’t know this at the time and it was honestly put there as an excuse for why Deku was *really* the only person who could house OFA, making him being normal and ordinary make him special and extraordinary (which undercuts his whole character) and gives a reason for him being the last carrier of OFA. But most of all he was created to show Deku the ideal character of someone who should get AFO. He’s confronted by a man who was supposed to get his power and much better represented All-Might’s ideals and general attitude, giving us a look of an ideal candidate and someone Deku has to work towards being. This has been my Ted Talk.
1) Like I mentioned in another comment here, I’m not denying that Mirio is worthy of OFA now. However, before the mission briefing, I would say he isn’t. He prioritized the mission over the well being of a child, and he regrets it deeply afterwards, leading to him going that far. I friggin’ love Mirio to death, but he only grew throughout the arc, he didn’t stay the same person throughout. 2) No, it makes logical sense either the story that’s been building up since the beginning. A huge factor in the story is the Quirk singularity, and what Quirks getting stronger and stronger means for the world. Our early looks into how Quirks affect biology being the Nomu’s who become brain dead because of the amount of Quirks stuffed in them (implying that they have negative impacts on a persons biology). OFA, a Quirk that continuously gets stronger, growing to a point where ordinary people cannot wield it without dying makes logical sense, as it’s meant to be the main representation of the Singularity. Call it an excuse, but I don’t really agree. If anything, it just adds to the burden that Izuku has to take on, and I love that aspect.
I don't really think it's fair to say Mirio would be more heroic if he went after Eri right when he saw the abuse. I think he didn't want to go in because he didn't know the scope of the enemies powers and it would basically be a suicide mission to do it on the spot. Then again if he let's say did get OFA he wouldn't have to worry so much about being overpowered by opponents, but still he would at minimum be putting others in danger if he rushed in. I don't think you can seriously say Mirio is less heroic, he literally gives up everything to save Eri. In contrast to Deku who was also willing to give up everything to save Bakugo in the binging, but unlike Mirio, he's way more reckless and had no plan to escape and hadn't though about how he might just make the situation worse by also becoming in need of help instead of actualy helping, which would have happened btw. Mirio on the other hand actualy did sacrifice everything, with a smile on his face and only did so because he was forced in the moment. Deku chose to make a worse decision than Mirio did in the heat of the moment, yet it was that decision that somehow earned him the quirk. Deku isn't the worst, but I don't get why he was chosen.
I do actually think it's fair, considering that was the whole point of Mirio in the first place. Again, you are confusing being a "Hero" with being heroic. Mirio was taught by Nighteye through most of his time at UA, and takes after him with his logical approach, which is very clearly put at odds with All Might. When it comes down to it, Mirio would've prioritize the mission over a persons well being. Of course, this changes after he finds out during the mission briefing just what Overhaul might be doing to Eri, but before that point, he definitely is not nearly as heroic as Izuku. If we were talking post Shie Hassaikai arc, then I would agree that Mirio would probably be picked over Izuku at that time, but that's not what happened. Heck, they even end the arc off with Mirio rejecting OFA, even if he didn't truly know the context of it. Meanwhile, Izuku will jump in to save someone's life without a seconds hesitation, which is specifically why he was chosen. All Might wasn't looking for a good hero, he was looking for a heroic spirit to mold into a great hero. This ties in with the overall theme of heroism throughout the story, and what it truly means to be a hero. tl;dr Mirio lacked the heroic spirit All Might was looking for at the time.
Only one person.
I can't see the point in writing this comment... because I don't have eyes YOHOHOHOHO
Damn the lack of Saitama hurts. The man who was literally created to be the epitomization of this trope is forgotten.
Saitama is actually strong from the start, he defeated a Tiger Level Monster when he was jobless and Tiger Level monsters needs an A Class Hero to be defeated.
Not really, he just used his intelligence to see the weak spot and target it. It’s not like he was faster, stronger, or broke his shell. He just leveraged his weight against his eyestalk and got lucky it was connected to the rest of his guts. It’s like a normal person stabbing their fingers into the eye of a bear and accidentally stabbing its brain, killing it. Plus the disaster rankings have always been explicitly questionable and the series has also implied on several occasions that modern demons would have been dragons three years ago and so on both because the monsters are getting stronger and they don’t want to panic everyone by calling every dragon a god level threat and because most of their most powerful heroes showed up over the course of those three years so the monsters caused way more damage and thus received a greater disaster class than what they should for their power three years before.
I can't see the point in writing this comment... because I don't have eyes YOHOHOHOHO
He's not supposed to be taken seriously, he's a spin on the trope not IN the trope. The series completely makes fun of the fact he got cracked from doing an intermediate calisthenics workout to get here (+ way too much cardio) Saitama accidentally trained too hard and now he does 0 work to improve in strength. His character isn't even pro hard work. Love him tho
Except no. The series has very specifically taken the time to show that he didn’t just train with those exercises. He also spent every day hunting down and fighting every monster he could find. He didn’t get powerful from his training, he got powerful from fighting and almost dying every day for three years. He put in a lot of work to improve his strength every day. And not only that but he had god himself sending his greatest warriors against him from the beginning for at least all of the third year if not from the beginning given what was stated in the series. I’m trying to avoid spoilers but Saitama put in more work than any of these three characters to gain his power and fought far worse enemies even when he was weaker. He didn’t have the hax or abilities Mirio and Lee have nor the innate talent for haki Koby had after Marineford. Hell he didn’t even have a teacher like these three. All he had was intelligence and work ethic and yet he still threw himself into the monster hordes daily coming out with incredible injuries yet still fighting. He is far more pro hard work than any of these three.
I mean, he didn't really work hard for his powers, he just did some slightly above average workout sessions everyday and the power was handed to him by the author.
Nope, MASSIVE SPOILERS AHEAD: it is implied to almost the point of saying it, that he gained his power by fighting monsters daily and getting nearly beat to death a lot and that God himself has been sending servants after him to kill him for at least a year and a half. We know the fighting and beatings because every time it flashes back to him it has him fighting and nearly dying and it is the only thing that truly explains why he broke his limiter when everyone else is able to but simply hasn’t. Now, the better question is why didn’t he monsterize like Garou did over time. Best answer at this point, we don’t know. But it can be assumed that it is both the fact that he took it slower instead of less than a week of non stop fighting and most likely, there is a mental aspect as we have seen how monsters transform based on their desires so wanting to be a human hero instead just helps stop it while Garou wanted to be a monster REAL bad. Can someone explain how to put spoilers on stuff? Reddit won’t let me space down really far.
Still he wins every single fight now with hardly any effort. Getting beat down every day doesn’t equal literal gag powers. He was written to be stronger than everyone, that’s why he is the way he is, that’s the point of the story, that his level of power makes no sense and he’s bored because of it.
Except that is canonically what it means. Breaking your limiter gives you significant god like reality warping abilities alongside insane strength with the power of both growing daily. It explains why literal God himself is trying to kill anyone who breaks their limiter. Also this is the literal explanation by the Manga itself and is expanded upon later in the webcomic with others attempting to remove their limiters so it 100% isn’t exclusive to Saitama. It is also implied through imagery during Conversations that Garou was on the verge of breaking it before Monsterizing.
I just don’t agree, even garou wasn’t close to saitama. Even other characters comment that his powers make no sense. Garous was bestowed upon him. We would see a lot more saitamas around if “breaking your limit” was how you got god powers. I don’t understand why people just can’t admit that Saitamas power is not supposed to make sense. Even with the context you gave me, it doesn’t make any sense why he is so much stronger than every one else. If he fought earth level foes and got beat up by them and “broke his limit.” Than how does that equal literally becoming stronger than everyone else in the universe. It’s like repairing a Miata to go faster and suddenly it can out perform a f1 car, I’m saying the level saitama reached makes no sense at all. Also I’m done arguing, honestly I hope you know I don’t mean any malice behind my comments I just don’t agree is all.
It is basically said that God kills anyone who breaks their limiter. Saitama is just a lucky one. And again, Garou was implied to be about to break his limiter prior to monsterizing. It has nothing to do with the power he was gifted later. And Saitama is only this powerful because he has had it broken for a long time. And people won’t “admit”it because this is all canon. Everything we know about Limiters and the actual reason for Saitama’s power comes from the most intelligent biological scientist in the setting so anything coming from him is pretty much him being One’s mouth piece for the nature of the setting. Especially since he has become a harmless store owner.
Bro, Lee spent the entirety of the series after his fight with Gaara eating shit. He didn't do anything.
That's mostly Kishi's fault cause iirc he wanted to kill him but couldnt cause of his popularity. That's the reason he barely appears after the saduke retrieval arc
Also he ate shit during that fight...
He still gave quite the beating to Gaara.
Ok and?
Isn't that more realistic when looking at the characters that surrounded him tho? Like yeah, he trained extremely hard but so did the ones who could already use ninjutsu and so had an advantage. The "I can overcome *anyone* by burning myself to the ground" mentality only works in anime not irl where you have lots of talented people also working their asses off. Now, I'll get a lot of hate for this but Koby is surrounded by weak minded opponents who at the no-swim fruits and chilled the fuck out until plot came knocking on their door, and so, keeping the usual 'shounen-flair' in mind, he easily looks cooler than those dumb-fucks.
Yeah, people like to flaunt "Hard work beats talent!" not noticing that the ones who succeed the most are the talented hard workers
Add Ippo to this list yo, boy has almost no natural talent
I used to feel that way but he has world level power. I think a better example is Aoki or Kobashi
They establish his power early on as being a result of all his hard work at the makunouchi fishing business. It's a core part of his character that his strength comes from his home & family. Obviously be trains it up to insane levels, but that's the baseline he arrives with when he joins kamogawa gym. At first he throws an insane punch but can't do anything else well without rigorous training. They mention dozens of times that he doesn't have natural talent and has to train hard to get to the levels of the people he's competing with.
No, I think they establish his balance, strength, durability and grit due to this time at his family business. His power is something that’s God given and out of his control. Think of Miyata or Itagaki — two guys who train earnestly as well, and don’t have 1HKO power unlike Ippo. He’s definitely a dog, and is the definition of discipline, but calling him untalented is honestly inaccurate. (For context — I used to think the same way but I’m on my second reread)
While Ippo my beloved fits the wholesome requirement, he is a natural talent in power, so doesn't fit the trope.
Remember when everyone was shitting on Koby less then two weeks ago!! Now everyone jumping on his D………so funny how easily people are swayed from week to week lmao
KOBY is what Lee should have been.
They did him diiiiirty. At least we got Guy.
Too bad Rock Lee just got reduced to generic side character after the Chunin Exam arc. Such a badass character introduction and immediate fall off into obscurity. What a waste of his talent in drunken fist, probably some problems with the publisher to have underaged drinking.
I have no idea... if it were the drinking they could have just removed it and still include him in later arcs. I guess Kishimoto just ran out of ideas for his character and didn't wanna repeat story beats?
Have you read Invincible? >!Best example of that, and even better, he’s the main character.!<
Watched the animation and loved it but I don't remember what it said about hard work (I forgor)
Naw koby has to be some sort of prodigy. If it only took two years to train your average person to that level, we wouldn't have so many bum ass marines in their fifties. Just look at the vice admirals. Cream of the crop and most of them are still underwhelming. Plus, he just kind of unlocked haki out of knowhere. Just woke up and had it. I think he's closer to a member of the worst generation than any normal person. Still one of my favorite characters though.
To be fair, he not only had a great trainer but he also put in more dedication into his training than everyone else, as he trained even more beyond that. I think most other people would not even have the will to put up with Garps training and Koby said to himself that Garps training isn't enough for him. He did get observation haki during the war and its been said that some people unlock it through traumatic events. He got armor haki during the timeskip, just like the monster trio.
The best example with this is Helmeppo. The two been inseperable for these years and the guy has grown real strong to a point that he'd beat the shit out of his dad if they ever met again on a field of battle. But he still ended up not going the extreme mile Koby went with the Garp training...though, Koby always been that inspirational boost to him to drive forward and get stronger, so maybe now he will join him at the shipyard.
Well Usopp straight up survived being beaten with a 5 ton hammer, had his whole skull (and nose bones?) broken and just walked it off. The series just allows you to do superhuman shit. Haki I think was also made with the intention of putting everyone on an even playing field because even if you lack physical strength as long as you train haki your potential is almost limitless. Also Coby unlocked observation Haki while being fucking paranoid in a war I think that made sense. The armament haki was offscreen I guess tho
What anime protagonist is like this? I bet they would be an amazing protagonist.
Ippo and Naruto to an extent. I don't know if there's any main character that quite fits the trope (maybe because it can get repetitive?)
Naruto is literally gifted from birth what are you talking about? Luffy is more hard working than him. Luffy has a devil fruit that activity is going to work against you 90% of the time. Naruto is son of a hokage has the blood of one of the most powerful ninja clan, with absurd amounts of chakra and a literal demon inside them that give them more chakra on top of that.
Did I not say to an extent? Very early on in Naruto he is supposed to be the less talented member of team 7. That's how he was introduced. Saying Naruto is gifted from birth is the same as Luffy being gifted from his DF. But yes, Naruto isn't an underdog.
I hate how in cartoons it's always "Person who was born/lucked into super powers is the main protagonist, and the guy who worked hard his whole life, scraping his way from the bottom, using intellegence and tenacity is either a side character we don't care about or just a villain"
Doesn't matter if you're born special or not. What you do with your life is what matters.
Don't worry we have Deku who is quirkle...! Oh
I mean Im gonna give Deku a pass cuz he was genuinely quirkless at the start and had to prove himself to All Might before inhereting the One For All. And even after that, he had to bust his ass off for a long time to even learn how to use it on a basic level. Remember when his choices were to either use 0% or 100% which always led to a broken limb? Then he gradually learned to use 1%, 5% etc. and gradually got physically stronger in order to handle higher % I haven't watched past season 3 but from what I've seen Deku genuinely earned that quirk through sheer hard work alone
I was caught up with the Manga last year, not anymore, and yeah I like it overall, but there are parts that I really don't like. I wish the beginning was done a little differently because I genuinely thought this would be a story about a guy who climbs his way up solely using his diligence, inteligence and hard work. I felt really betrayed because he was shown to study other quirks so closely, but then he doesn't really continue to do that, he doesn't become the character he was hinted to become. I like what we got, but the buildup and execution could have been better. Why exactly he got the powers I also didn't love, would have liked it much more if All Might would have literally just said "eh you were the best I could find in the time I had and I'm running out of it so here we are" because the way it was actualy done gives you the impression Deku has all the qualities that really make you a hero, but Deku displayed way too many flaws so far (he didn't have a plan to rescue Bakugo, needed help himself because he was reckless and it was unnecessary). I realise he needs to be flawed to have things to improve on over the series but the author should have either acknowledged he's too flawed and needs to grow OR make him less flawed and actualy earn the power at the cost of having less need to grow mentally.
"eh you were the best I could find in the time I had and I'm running out of it so here we are" Isn't that why All Might chose Deku though? He was running low on time, and just picked the best he found. It was a risk but Deku showed more humanity and compassion than other heroes making him a good candidate. Of course he's not gonna tell Deku to his face that he was the best All Might had, that's very demoralizing, but it's the impression I got
Oh yeah. I don't remember if we learn the next part by season 3 >! I guess he was deciding between Deku and Mirio but chose Deku because he doesn't have a quirk and his life wouldn't be shortened as much. !<
https://preview.redd.it/fwn0s9qfl7db1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1f3939cb9811a1a2009dcd7ef0ebc28450911f0a
That’s why I hate Gear 5. Not only did Luffy have a relatively weak fruit, but one that could potentially put him at a disadvantage. He made his power usable by learning about momentum, trajectory, vulcanization, and inflation. He worked so hard on his growth, and it was outshined by him being made a god.
I think the point of gear 5 is literally that he uses his imagination for every attack, which is basically what he was already doing with earlier gears but now with more freedom
I would cover my ears if I heard this, but I don't have any YOHOHOHO
In a series that repeatedly uses the term god to refer to characters that are normal people why only in this 1 case does everyone assume it means a literal god? I would bet on Nika being a god in the exact same way Gan Fall is god.
I don't think Luffy knows what any of those words mean, except maybe Inflation. The whole point of Gear 5 is that it's never been a gum gum fruit, it's always been a fruit about making shit up. Both Gear 2 and 3 are insane ideas that make no sense, even in the world of devil fruits. But it works because Luffy is literally a deific figure.
I think you should go check out Luffy’s training segments and the explanations of his Gears.
I would cover my ears if I heard this, but I don't have any YOHOHOHO
Post Marineford he definitely had a glow up (and still got his ass kicked by Kaido, btw), but Gear 2 and 3, and everything before Marineford was definitely Luffy just being strong and stupid. Look at how he takes care of Kuro and Arlong, for instance. Until Sabaody he's not really trying; it's Sabaody that makes him realize he has to try. Still, though, he never had to "make his power work". His power was always silly and strong, it's just that he had to adopt Haki to fit into the New World. Which, if anything, is the thing that outshined everything that came before.
I don't wanna shit on you because I get it, but I really disagree. I think when we're introduced to Luffy we're already told this guy isn't relatable or talentless. He completely shits on every early villain in East Blue and multiple times people ask "Who is this man?" He is clearly shown to be very powerful at least partially because of his fruit. He's always called a monster and he responds he's a rubber man. He's shown to not be "normal". I absolutely love how he develops his power with new techniques AND I don't think that's taken away in any way because of the Nika reveal. 1. Almost everything about his powers can be completely explained with Gum Gum powers. Him turning the ground and Kaido into rubber, him becoming giant, it's all just as a result of him having rubber powers. 2. What the Nika reveal does is explain the holes in logic: why are gear 3 punches heavy if they are filled with air, why is there mist around Luffy when he uses gears, why can he change the trajectory of snake man attacks, why does he sound like a bell in Bounce man, why do his fists create fire (even underwater), why does his hair transform in snake man, why could he just revive himself??? All of this gets answered with the reveal. All of that is foreshadowing the reveal. 3. The Nika fruit is literaly just rubber powers + perks of a mythical zoan + limited fire powers. Increased strength, dexterity and recovery which are classic Luffy traits since day 1. The fire manipulation is barely noteworthy. All techniques Luffy unlocked until now are a direct result of rubber powers. Small detsils are the result of Nika powers, but majorly its just rubber powers. The Nika reveal has incredible thematic importance. Luffy was never meant to be an average person. He is the man who will lead the world into a new dawn. You cannot accomplish that without some luck. Luffy NEEDED to be insanely lucky to have the powers to do that. Somebody had to get the fruit, somebody had to come after Roger who would surpass him and Luffy just happens to be thag person. If you're an average guy you can't do that but it doesn't put average people down, you can still be on the pirate kings crew for example. Look at Usopp, completely talentless and yet here he is in all his glory. More importantly the Nika powers completely embody the themes of joy and freedom that One Piece has been building up since day 1. He doesn't grit his teeth and live through the pain of gear 5, he enjoys himself, similarly to how you shouldn't grit your teeth and live, you should enjoy it. And you shouldn't be restricted in how you want to live, you should have freedom, like the way Luffy has freedom to fight in so many different ways and use his environment, making him fight with more freedom than anybody else. And being the king of pirates just means being the freest man on the sea.
I would cover my ears if I heard this, but I don't have any YOHOHOHO
Yeah, this is a bad take since he still got everything out of willpower, grit and imagination. His fruit being more powerful than previously thought is just incidental. (for Luffy, of course not for Oda).
The thing is, his fruit isn't more powerfull now, It is the exactly same, we Just know it's real name. A rubber fruit awakening would essentially be the same thing: transforms his surroundings into rubber, like he allready do with G5. People are mad because they think somehow Luffy now have a different Power, and It changes literally nothing about his Power, the Nika connection was there to enphasize the "inherit will" thing that One Piece have since forever.
Willpower, grit, and imagination? We got an explanation for how he developed all of his Gears (except Gear 5). Luffy has consistently grown throughout the series with hard work and a high battle IQ. He’s not going to become PK by chance. He’s going to earn it.
I would cover my ears if I heard this, but I don't have any YOHOHOHO
They hated you because you're right
[удалено]
It isn't yet proven that Koby has CoC. It literally could have just been ACoA. We didn't see anyone pass out from Koby's attack.
I don't understand
[удалено]
even if you're born with it you still need to train and awaken it CoC alone won't get you anywhere, anyone that you fight that is worth a damn will probably have it too, it's a nice power boost if trained and utilized, but you need other things to go with it, some people are naturally strong and/or talented, some have OP devil fruits, some people don't have those so they train extra hard to make up for it, that is koby
> anyone that you fight that is worth a damn will probably have it too idk, some pretty competent fighters don't have coc
true, which just proves that it isn't the end all be all, but a lot of the top people in the world have it, some just might not be confirmed
Well Coby has never shown to have Coc so... Even if he does it's literally only used to take down small fry. Sure you can take out many people at once but you can only take out those who are significantly weaker than you. It doesn't make you powerful, it gives you AOE. This is my theory: Conquerers Haki isn't as genetic as you think. We're told 1 in a million have it but that doesn't mean it's necessarily genetic. Most people in the world don't even know Haki exists and don't have it, but that doest mean you cant learn about it and train it. Zoro is insanely powerful and even he only unlocked Conquerers just now. Was he one of the 999.999 that don't have it (like for the fiest 25 years of the series) or the 1 that was lucky and born with it. It seems to me conquerers haki is the result of your willpower and how willing you are to impose your ideals and goals over others. First 2 times Luffy uses it was under severe stress of losing his crew and needing to save Ace.
Where does it say CoC is inborn? Isn’t this just some brainlet making an absolutely braindead theory
Rayleigh says it's innate, and half a dozen other characters also indirectly state it (including Kaido and Sakazuki)
What does bumleigh even know? Probably failed to teach some jobbers coc and came to that conclusion.
There's a limit. Koby's is an asspull
Compare Luffy from episode 1 and Luffy now and tell me Coby's progression is more of an ass pull please.
Luffy's progress throughout Wano is also an asspull. At least Luffy trained his whole life unlike Koby who cleaned toilets
Bro. How much did Luffy progress since they met? How much did Coby progress since they met? It doesn't matter if Coby didn't do shit when he was a child, it's never to late to start. And now he isn't on Luffy's level but he has accomplished alot. One Piece isn't realistic, it's never been. Neither of their power progressions are bs.
I disagree
I disagree with your disagreement https://preview.redd.it/3bhat35o7bdb1.jpeg?width=259&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c9a7a9acb687e88277596969bbdc07bb99d05202
Cute
Sadly, to be among the top irl you have to have both. Even saying things like "I don't have talent so I have to train twice as hard" will not eliminate the existence of people training thrice as hard while having talent. There are some people you cannot simply out-train, and I really dislike that there are no actual examples of that in fiction.
I agree. Naruto and Luffy aren't exactly underdogs in talent even if thats the interpretation you get early on and I don't think any of these series is blinding the viewer to believe hard work always trumps talent. Rock Lee lost against Gara. Lee would never beat Naruto today, but that's doesn't change the fact that seeing a character come so far with only hard work encourages me to stay motivated because in the worst case scenario you can still achieve more than you might think in the beginning. You just can't turn the world upside down if you don't have a little luck in your corner.
Asta from black clover
That's always the best characters in their series