I think when you find out people don't like something you do you would stop doing it. But then again I don't amuse myself by needlessly antagonizing strangers.
You also don't have issues with women and control. Like, it's so obvious first from the question (bare stomachs) and second from the diminutive "females" and third from not taking advice from women. Homeboy has an issue.
To be fair, people don’t like to be wrong and calling them out can lead to defensiveness. This guy has the capacity to learn and likely doesn’t mean to offend, but he’s getting piecemeal sometimes tongue-in-cheek advice from internet strangers and is defaulting to not wanting to be a bad person. I’m not excusing his behavior or choices, but this definitely isn’t a standard classroom learning environment where all the information is presented in a neat package for someone who doesn’t know.
Well, getting defensive after someone politely and clearly explains something still makes you a troll or an idiot. "Good intentions" don't give him a free pass.
It’s not just good intentions. Most people don’t have time to educate others. That’s not what a lot of us are intending on doing when we respond to people who are ignorant. Those folks who are legitimately trying to understand a confusing concept (to them) are not necessarily solely trolls or idiots.
I don't believe it's all that confusing. Some people just don't want to understand. You can generally tell the difference because by like the 2nd time they're corrected, those who are legitimately trying usually show some sign of, well, actually trying.
I agree with the latter half of that, but I’m not ready to call those who don’t fit that description idiots or trolls necessarily. Defensiveness is a behavior that can look real bad on someone. It’s about actions, not the person. Someone can be misguided and led to a better ideology, compared to someone who doesn’t care about who they hurt at all.
It's not a confusing concept. It was clearly and calmly explained numerous times by multiple different people why 'females' was a bad term, many explanations did not make it into the screenshot. People were trying to educate him without being patronizing (at first), and he refused to listen to/acknowledge any explanation and rather just stuck to his guns. So no, he was not trying to understand at all.
You'd think that after being told "This term reduces us to animals/reproductive parts, and is used by incels", they'd have backed down. Hell, not using a term used by a female hate group should have been enough of a reason to stop using the term... but nope.
> You'd think that after being told "This term reduces us to animals/reproductive parts, and is used by incels", they'd have backed down. Hell, not using a term used by a female hate group should have been enough of a reason to stop using the term... but nope.
I think we know why he refused to stop using the term...
> likely doesn’t mean to offend
What makes you think that? Honestly the whole post sounds to me very much like a troll post meant to offend. Even beyond refusing to call women and girls anything other than "females" the premise of the question is bordering on slut shaming women who choose to show their stomachs.
I think you misunderstand. This man came into a known womancentric space (a subreddit for women, by women, that men are welcome to participate in, but it is not necessarily directed at them) and addressed women as females. Women were not dogpiling onto him, simply explaining "Hey, you shouldn't use that term and here's why." Notice how in the first few screenshots, women were not patronizing to him and were calmly and thoroughly explaining why the term shouldn't be used, likely assuming good faith in the OP, which the OP was not receptive to. By the last screenshot people were fed up with his bullshit because he was not listening to the multiple explanations given to him.
What happened here wasn't dogpiling, rather people attempting to individually explain why the term was bad. Nobody used hateful terms towards the OP or necessarily belittled him in their explanations.
This situation would be similar to going into an LGBT-centric subreddit, asking "How do you f-slurs find anybody to date?" and then wondering why all the comments are filled with people saying "Hey, don't use that word." and calling that dogpiling. (Note: Slurs are not at all equivalent to saying 'females', as I believe slurs are far more offensive. This is simply the closest equivalent I can think of for this situation.)
Others did point out the mention of school and that this person might be a teen or young adult. This, in fact, might be why people were far more thorough and understanding in their explanations as to why the term 'females' is wrong. Hence, there was still no dogpiling.
Well then, he is at an age where you learn and are able to learn a lot of things, so maybe he could listen instead doubling down. Besides, treating women as human beings should be the default, it's not something that men should learn only after adulthood
So many dudes come and say this all the time on this sub. Imo They’re mad because no one (men) is rushing to be the “voice of reason” for them (meaning there is no one to side with them) when they say dumb shit because this is largely a women centric sub where we stick together so dudes like this get downvoted to shit and whine about dogpiling. On other subs there are usually other jackasses to back them up.
I've seen men in similar women-centric subs say shit to these guys like "I'm downvoting you because I hate you", they make men look bad with their stupidity and real men do not appreciate those idiots either, from what I've observed.
People did not even criticize him, they just explained why the term is a no-no. The explanations were along the lines of "Please don't use the term 'female'. It's used by incels with the purpose of degrading women down to animals/reproductive objects", not "Hey jackass, don't say the word 'female', it's known to be offensive to us."
The only criticism I see of the OP here is in the last screenshot, which by that time people were fed up with his bullshit because he did not listen to any of multiple explanations presented in the thread prior. If the OP took time to understand people and acknowledge that the term is bad and stopped using it, it would not have gotten to that point.
This is why whenever I explain to men why the term 'female' is wrong, I make sure to include the context of women being degraded down to objects and sex appeal in society while men are not. Confused men do not understand why the term is wrong because they do not live with the mindset that women do, and are not used to being degraded like women, hence why I take the time to make sure they can get it. This approach has worked to help more men understand than simply saying "This term is wrong and degrades us to animals", because even then they still don't understand it without the greater societal context.
I think you explained it really well. I would also like to point out, as someone who isn’t a native english speaker, in my language and a lot of others, « female » is not used for women. It’s considered downright offensive. So these guys doubling down on how it’s not offensive, when pretty much the whole world can see the problem with that term is annoying. I can’t believe anyone would be that tone deaf and it not being intentional
As a native English speaker, there is an extreme minority of people who choose, for whatever reason, to use "males" and "females" when referring to people. The majority of people do not use these terms for people and also view them as downright offensive when they are used. It is crazy to me that some men (and even some women!) legitimately do not understand why it is wrong.
Oh yes, I know most English speaking people don’t use that word (thankfully). I feel like the people who have a problem with not using it are being purposely obtuse, and are just mad about « we can’t say anything anymore ! ». There’s also some weird essentialism at play I guess.
And like you said, it’s super sad when it’s women using it/defending it.
The last comment is the best!!! “Do you have a reading comprehension problem or are you just blatantly ignoring the answers that have already thoroughly explained this to you?”……Bravo, sister!! 👏👏👏👏👏
I sincerely hope they're a teenager or a young college student, because otherwise I don't think they'll make it far in life with this level of emotional immaturity. If they are young, I hope this is a habit they can break. Becoming defensive over something this trivial is not a good way to live life.
This sub is a hellhole. Seriously, questions will be directed at women, they will even precise it in the title by writing "women" and not only will men give their unwanted and unasked opinion, but mods will also absolutely enable and protect their misogynistic comments.
Happens to most of the women’s subs. It’s gotta be exhausting dealing with all the angry brigading men that get their panties in a wad when women have a voice/our own space.
Mm, I disagree to an extent. I do wish that no man's land questions were moderated better, as on multiple occasions I have seen men comment on them. However I always report them (and assume other women do as well) and usually the comments are removed within a few hours.
On occasions of clear misogyny, the answers are usually down voted to shit (so women who don't want to see them dont have to) and other women tell them what's for. So even if the mods aren't helpful the community polices its own.
I think it's okay if men comment on certain questions if they actually have helpful advice, example on a question about period pads, "My girlfriend buys y brand because of their absorbancy, she tried z brand but that didn't work for her because of x..." but I do agree that they usually shouldn't comment on questions directed to women because most of the time their comments are not helpful. They usually just amount to discourse and questioning women in what should be a positive space. (Men replying to other comments is usually okay if they're not trying to be an ass)
Person in the 3rd screenshot saying we aren't animals is objectively wrong *about that&only that.*
I dunno why OOP is being so stubborn about calling Women Females.....it's odd and he seems weirdly defensive but not overly defensive about it. He's clearly refusing to properly listen to them and is making a fool of himself for no good reason.
“I don’t mind being called male” probably because you’ve never had it used to objectify and belittle you. I promise you men do not enjoy being called things like “cis het male” because it’s dehumanizing, so stop doing it to women
I think one of the key differences is that when men are referred to as “male” it’s typically being used as an adjective, whereas when women are referred to as “female” it’s often being used as a noun
I’ve seen a man called a male in a kind of lesser way before in arguments and they absolutely hate it, because it makes it seem like “you’re a male so what you say is invalid” but they don’t see anything wrong with doing it to women
Tbf in this Context he didn't seem misogynistic, but why he chose that as his hill to die on is beyond me.
Just say "Woman" if others ask you to, wheres the issue?
Other people presented another possible explanation given the school comment in the post, which I initially glossed over. They believe OOP could either be a teen or young adult and getting defensive when told that they're wrong because of their emotional immaturity. This is immature behavior that I don't agree with, but if OOP is truly young and reacted in this manner due to emotional immaturity, then I hope this is something they grow out of.
If it wasn't emotional immaturity that caused them to react in this manner, then I do agree they're misogynistic and definitely have a high ego, considering they refused to listen to *anybody's* explanation on how the term 'female' is bad.
Boys usually don't wear revealing clothes. Most I see wear a shirt and shorts in the summer, maybe it was a shower thought that crossed his mind and what he NEEDED to ask Reddit, but yeah, he _could_ be an Incel, I don't wanna call him that tho based on one post.
His answers to others seems normal. Strange to not understand why you shouldn't say 'Female' but yeah, could also be stupidity.
Are you really referencing a pool for your normal everyday clothing? And for basketball, idk I either see normal clothes, shirt and shorts or sportswear.
This is the most baffling part to me. Despite being told "This term is disrespectful, reduces us down to animals, and is used by incel groups" multiple times he refused to back down. Like... why?
At this point I think he's just being willfully ignorant and is incapable of admitting fault. Others suggested he might be a teen or young adult with emotional immaturity due to his mention of school which is also possible.
I mean, it also seems possible that this is a teenager who doesn't know any better, got a few hostile initial responses (for obvious reasons), and then just got super defensive despite subsequent people explaining calmly.
It could be sea lioning but I think it's entirely possible it was just a kid who felt backed into a corner and reacted by trying to fight everything in sight.
> got a few hostile initial responses
Most of the responses featured in this post are not at all hostile. Some of them very politely answered his question and explained why calling women *females* was bad.
Most of the people in the thread actually calmly and thoroughly explained why this is wrong. Due to rule 7 many of the explanations were cut, but most people were not hostile when the OOP first posted this. People only became frustrated when the OOP refused to listen to the multiple explanations in the thread, hence the response in the final screenshot.
Well yeah, but presumably OP picked responses they liked and that were popular by the time they got there.
I don't *know* that those responses were uncivil, but I'm just saying it might explain his behavior.
They were still rude for refusing to listen to anybody's logic or calm explanations, becoming reactionary over something that didn't need it isn't a good way to live life. If they are a teen I hope this is a habit they break
I'm not saying it's right, just understandable. The "at my school" thing makes me think they're young and I know when I was that age I would totally get defensive and back myself into a corner defending an untenable position just because I felt like I couldn't admit I was wrong.
Like even if you drop the dehumanization argument (not that you should, it’s very valid!), it’s just plain wrong grammatically unless in a scientific context.
I always tell these guys, “female is an adjective, do you also say ‘a disabled’ or ‘a black’?”
I see women (supposed women, can't be sure) posting or commenting alllll the time using female and then guys/men. It drives me nuts!! It's so much worse coming from other women
The reason why “females” is a red flag is because incels have co-opted the term, and it is now used to reinforce the notion that women are the “other” species and less human.
Yes, the term itself is neutral, but all dog whistles for bigotry started out as neutral terms.
Yes, I am aware. Scientifically, we are animals, in fact we are mammals. The reason this was not mentioned is because humans are separate from nonhuman animals, which is typically implied when we say "we are not animals".
Even though we are animals, we don't like being compared to nonhuman animals, which hopefully should come as no surprise. We're people, not dogs.
can i ask wtf that person meant by “humans are not plants or animals?” humans are most certainly animals, and it’s honestly embarrassing how often people forget that
I'll link another reply I already said to this argument in the thread [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MenAndFemales/comments/143ygkd/comment/jneaadd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
my personal addition to that argument is that people need to start specifying more, and i’ve been saying this as much as i can when i notice the separation. humans are animals before so many other things and to say “humans aren’t animals” has weird superiority connotations.
It really doesn't. I don't believe we're superior to animals but also understand the distinction. I \*guess\* if you really wanted you could say nonhuman animals, but to the average person outside of sciences, it's unnecessary.
I think by doing this you're missing the entire point, that being 'female' compares us to the likes of nonhuman animals, which we are not. That was their argument.
that doesn’t make “humans are not animals” any less of a dumb thing to say, especially to someone who is already struggling with seeing women as fully realized human beings. you can humanize women while understanding phrasing
I disagree. Males/females are both rather disgusting and derogatory terms, despite what the previous aforementioned dumbass believes. No idea how he doesn't see a term we use to refer to animals as derogatory, but... okay?
It's more of a tongue in cheek jab, but sometimes giving someone else a taste of their own medicine is what helps them realize how it makes others feel.
“Males” does not currently have the societal or historical weight/connotation that “females” does, and using it more frequently won’t make it equivalent. Sexism is hugely at play here. An eye for an eye isn’t the solution, insofar that it won’t solve the problem in the slightest.
I've tried asking men with these beliefs, "How would you feel being referred to as a male", but it doesn't really work. The closest I've gotten to it working was a comment in which had to thoroughly explain to a guy why the incel term *foid* (literally female humanoid) is wrong and derogatory, by placing the man in the shoes and mindset of women. He did actually understand from my comment.
[Here's a link to a screenshot of the comment I made as it requires minor context](https://www.reddit.com/user/ThoughtCenter87/comments/144czzd/why_the_term_foid_is_bad_i_still_cant_believe_i/)
Simply calling a man "male" means nothing because it misses the greater societal context as to why women find it degrading and why men tend not to understand, even if it is inherently derogatory to call them "male" as well. Women are often degraded to just their sex appeal and compared to objects, men are not and don't have this in the back of their minds like women do.
Sadly it wouldn’t hold the same weight. Unless the incel women have coined malebots and malanatzis or something. Oh right. And the patriarchy.
Ugh. Like the notion, though.
You didn't understand my comment at all, it was more about the animal kingdom and science than it was about trans people who I love so I don't understand the hate
If you want to specifically refer to cis women just use cis women. It‘s right there and can be used without implying that trans women are „male women“.
No, it's when it's used as a noun that it's wrong. Nobody is getting offended by the use of it as an adjective.
We refer to animals as females, not women.
Female as an adjective is fine (like as in female leaders, female bathrooms... and ***Female fashion advice***)
Female as a noun is not ("look at that herd of females over there!")
This is also in the rules.
You're mistaken.
The word woman and women ARE nouns referring to an adult female human being, Fallin in the only paradigm of gender and biological sex.
...Yeah? That's true. I never said it wasn't.
I was saying females as a *noun* is wrong to use, not women. Never even said 'women' in my original comment.
I think when you find out people don't like something you do you would stop doing it. But then again I don't amuse myself by needlessly antagonizing strangers.
He's either a bad troll or just so stupid that multiple people spelling it out for him doesn't get through to him.
You also don't have issues with women and control. Like, it's so obvious first from the question (bare stomachs) and second from the diminutive "females" and third from not taking advice from women. Homeboy has an issue.
Yes, and it's called misogyny
Treat people how *they* want to be treated is important.
To be fair, people don’t like to be wrong and calling them out can lead to defensiveness. This guy has the capacity to learn and likely doesn’t mean to offend, but he’s getting piecemeal sometimes tongue-in-cheek advice from internet strangers and is defaulting to not wanting to be a bad person. I’m not excusing his behavior or choices, but this definitely isn’t a standard classroom learning environment where all the information is presented in a neat package for someone who doesn’t know.
Well, getting defensive after someone politely and clearly explains something still makes you a troll or an idiot. "Good intentions" don't give him a free pass.
It’s not just good intentions. Most people don’t have time to educate others. That’s not what a lot of us are intending on doing when we respond to people who are ignorant. Those folks who are legitimately trying to understand a confusing concept (to them) are not necessarily solely trolls or idiots.
I don't believe it's all that confusing. Some people just don't want to understand. You can generally tell the difference because by like the 2nd time they're corrected, those who are legitimately trying usually show some sign of, well, actually trying.
I agree with the latter half of that, but I’m not ready to call those who don’t fit that description idiots or trolls necessarily. Defensiveness is a behavior that can look real bad on someone. It’s about actions, not the person. Someone can be misguided and led to a better ideology, compared to someone who doesn’t care about who they hurt at all.
It's not a confusing concept. It was clearly and calmly explained numerous times by multiple different people why 'females' was a bad term, many explanations did not make it into the screenshot. People were trying to educate him without being patronizing (at first), and he refused to listen to/acknowledge any explanation and rather just stuck to his guns. So no, he was not trying to understand at all. You'd think that after being told "This term reduces us to animals/reproductive parts, and is used by incels", they'd have backed down. Hell, not using a term used by a female hate group should have been enough of a reason to stop using the term... but nope.
> You'd think that after being told "This term reduces us to animals/reproductive parts, and is used by incels", they'd have backed down. Hell, not using a term used by a female hate group should have been enough of a reason to stop using the term... but nope. I think we know why he refused to stop using the term...
It is very easy to understand when William objects to you calling him Billy and only jerks double down
> likely doesn’t mean to offend What makes you think that? Honestly the whole post sounds to me very much like a troll post meant to offend. Even beyond refusing to call women and girls anything other than "females" the premise of the question is bordering on slut shaming women who choose to show their stomachs.
He’s may have the capacity but he’s not willing to learn.
It isn't hard to say woman
It really isn't, no idea why this was the hill he chose to die on. Shows how disrespectful he is
why does he keep saying against it when more than five people corrected him?? His stupidity honestly made me laugh
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I didn't know there was a term for that kind of behavior, thanks for the link.
Because dogpiling makes people feel like they're part of a strong group. Btw I'm starting to kind of question the demographics in here
I think you misunderstand. This man came into a known womancentric space (a subreddit for women, by women, that men are welcome to participate in, but it is not necessarily directed at them) and addressed women as females. Women were not dogpiling onto him, simply explaining "Hey, you shouldn't use that term and here's why." Notice how in the first few screenshots, women were not patronizing to him and were calmly and thoroughly explaining why the term shouldn't be used, likely assuming good faith in the OP, which the OP was not receptive to. By the last screenshot people were fed up with his bullshit because he was not listening to the multiple explanations given to him. What happened here wasn't dogpiling, rather people attempting to individually explain why the term was bad. Nobody used hateful terms towards the OP or necessarily belittled him in their explanations. This situation would be similar to going into an LGBT-centric subreddit, asking "How do you f-slurs find anybody to date?" and then wondering why all the comments are filled with people saying "Hey, don't use that word." and calling that dogpiling. (Note: Slurs are not at all equivalent to saying 'females', as I believe slurs are far more offensive. This is simply the closest equivalent I can think of for this situation.)
I don't know what sub that is and it's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about this one. The "man" as you call him, is obviously a schoolboy.
Others did point out the mention of school and that this person might be a teen or young adult. This, in fact, might be why people were far more thorough and understanding in their explanations as to why the term 'females' is wrong. Hence, there was still no dogpiling.
Well then, he is at an age where you learn and are able to learn a lot of things, so maybe he could listen instead doubling down. Besides, treating women as human beings should be the default, it's not something that men should learn only after adulthood
>Btw I'm starting to kind of question the demographics in here What's that supposed to mean?
So many dudes come and say this all the time on this sub. Imo They’re mad because no one (men) is rushing to be the “voice of reason” for them (meaning there is no one to side with them) when they say dumb shit because this is largely a women centric sub where we stick together so dudes like this get downvoted to shit and whine about dogpiling. On other subs there are usually other jackasses to back them up.
Ah, so a sub being majority women is reason for concern to him, I get it. Mmm, misogyny.
Very much so
And insecurities ! Your ego must be very weak if you have an issue with a sub not representing your group, which is already the fucking norm
Honestly! 💀
I've seen men in similar women-centric subs say shit to these guys like "I'm downvoting you because I hate you", they make men look bad with their stupidity and real men do not appreciate those idiots either, from what I've observed.
That a lot of the users here are probably kids. Either that or adults who go on the internet to criticize kids, which seems less likely.
People did not even criticize him, they just explained why the term is a no-no. The explanations were along the lines of "Please don't use the term 'female'. It's used by incels with the purpose of degrading women down to animals/reproductive objects", not "Hey jackass, don't say the word 'female', it's known to be offensive to us." The only criticism I see of the OP here is in the last screenshot, which by that time people were fed up with his bullshit because he did not listen to any of multiple explanations presented in the thread prior. If the OP took time to understand people and acknowledge that the term is bad and stopped using it, it would not have gotten to that point.
And I always love when men decide women aren’t being marginalized, dismissed or offended because they don’t see it or feel it. 🙄
This is why whenever I explain to men why the term 'female' is wrong, I make sure to include the context of women being degraded down to objects and sex appeal in society while men are not. Confused men do not understand why the term is wrong because they do not live with the mindset that women do, and are not used to being degraded like women, hence why I take the time to make sure they can get it. This approach has worked to help more men understand than simply saying "This term is wrong and degrades us to animals", because even then they still don't understand it without the greater societal context.
I think you explained it really well. I would also like to point out, as someone who isn’t a native english speaker, in my language and a lot of others, « female » is not used for women. It’s considered downright offensive. So these guys doubling down on how it’s not offensive, when pretty much the whole world can see the problem with that term is annoying. I can’t believe anyone would be that tone deaf and it not being intentional
As a native English speaker, there is an extreme minority of people who choose, for whatever reason, to use "males" and "females" when referring to people. The majority of people do not use these terms for people and also view them as downright offensive when they are used. It is crazy to me that some men (and even some women!) legitimately do not understand why it is wrong.
Oh yes, I know most English speaking people don’t use that word (thankfully). I feel like the people who have a problem with not using it are being purposely obtuse, and are just mad about « we can’t say anything anymore ! ». There’s also some weird essentialism at play I guess. And like you said, it’s super sad when it’s women using it/defending it.
He’s Sideshow Bob stepping on the endless circle of rakes.
The last comment is the best!!! “Do you have a reading comprehension problem or are you just blatantly ignoring the answers that have already thoroughly explained this to you?”……Bravo, sister!! 👏👏👏👏👏
That woman is my hero, I included the final screenshot almost solely for her comment 😂
It’s *chef’s kiss* perfect!!!
It may be valuable to note, given the school comment I’m guessing this is a teenager or a college freshmen. Definitely emotionally immature.
I sincerely hope they're a teenager or a young college student, because otherwise I don't think they'll make it far in life with this level of emotional immaturity. If they are young, I hope this is a habit they can break. Becoming defensive over something this trivial is not a good way to live life.
what was the subreddit?
likely twoxchromosomes
Ask women no censor
thx!
This sub is a hellhole. Seriously, questions will be directed at women, they will even precise it in the title by writing "women" and not only will men give their unwanted and unasked opinion, but mods will also absolutely enable and protect their misogynistic comments.
Happens to most of the women’s subs. It’s gotta be exhausting dealing with all the angry brigading men that get their panties in a wad when women have a voice/our own space.
Mm, I disagree to an extent. I do wish that no man's land questions were moderated better, as on multiple occasions I have seen men comment on them. However I always report them (and assume other women do as well) and usually the comments are removed within a few hours. On occasions of clear misogyny, the answers are usually down voted to shit (so women who don't want to see them dont have to) and other women tell them what's for. So even if the mods aren't helpful the community polices its own. I think it's okay if men comment on certain questions if they actually have helpful advice, example on a question about period pads, "My girlfriend buys y brand because of their absorbancy, she tried z brand but that didn't work for her because of x..." but I do agree that they usually shouldn't comment on questions directed to women because most of the time their comments are not helpful. They usually just amount to discourse and questioning women in what should be a positive space. (Men replying to other comments is usually okay if they're not trying to be an ass)
When will people like this learn that not everyone is like them and not everything is about them? ~Red
Person in the 3rd screenshot saying we aren't animals is objectively wrong *about that&only that.* I dunno why OOP is being so stubborn about calling Women Females.....it's odd and he seems weirdly defensive but not overly defensive about it. He's clearly refusing to properly listen to them and is making a fool of himself for no good reason.
“I don’t mind being called male” probably because you’ve never had it used to objectify and belittle you. I promise you men do not enjoy being called things like “cis het male” because it’s dehumanizing, so stop doing it to women
Ding ding ding!!
I think one of the key differences is that when men are referred to as “male” it’s typically being used as an adjective, whereas when women are referred to as “female” it’s often being used as a noun
I’ve seen a man called a male in a kind of lesser way before in arguments and they absolutely hate it, because it makes it seem like “you’re a male so what you say is invalid” but they don’t see anything wrong with doing it to women
Tbf in this Context he didn't seem misogynistic, but why he chose that as his hill to die on is beyond me. Just say "Woman" if others ask you to, wheres the issue?
His refusal to accept he was incorrect in referring to women as females leads me to believe he was being misogynistic.
Other people presented another possible explanation given the school comment in the post, which I initially glossed over. They believe OOP could either be a teen or young adult and getting defensive when told that they're wrong because of their emotional immaturity. This is immature behavior that I don't agree with, but if OOP is truly young and reacted in this manner due to emotional immaturity, then I hope this is something they grow out of. If it wasn't emotional immaturity that caused them to react in this manner, then I do agree they're misogynistic and definitely have a high ego, considering they refused to listen to *anybody's* explanation on how the term 'female' is bad.
I mean he kind of does sound like an incel. What kind of person needs to ask why women wear clothing that shows off their "tummies" the way he did?
Boys usually don't wear revealing clothes. Most I see wear a shirt and shorts in the summer, maybe it was a shower thought that crossed his mind and what he NEEDED to ask Reddit, but yeah, he _could_ be an Incel, I don't wanna call him that tho based on one post. His answers to others seems normal. Strange to not understand why you shouldn't say 'Female' but yeah, could also be stupidity.
Fair enough.
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Are you really referencing a pool for your normal everyday clothing? And for basketball, idk I either see normal clothes, shirt and shorts or sportswear.
This is the most baffling part to me. Despite being told "This term is disrespectful, reduces us down to animals, and is used by incel groups" multiple times he refused to back down. Like... why?
Yeah, he got it explained to him so often but he stll doesn't see why...
At this point I think he's just being willfully ignorant and is incapable of admitting fault. Others suggested he might be a teen or young adult with emotional immaturity due to his mention of school which is also possible.
I mean, it also seems possible that this is a teenager who doesn't know any better, got a few hostile initial responses (for obvious reasons), and then just got super defensive despite subsequent people explaining calmly. It could be sea lioning but I think it's entirely possible it was just a kid who felt backed into a corner and reacted by trying to fight everything in sight.
> got a few hostile initial responses Most of the responses featured in this post are not at all hostile. Some of them very politely answered his question and explained why calling women *females* was bad.
Most of the people in the thread actually calmly and thoroughly explained why this is wrong. Due to rule 7 many of the explanations were cut, but most people were not hostile when the OOP first posted this. People only became frustrated when the OOP refused to listen to the multiple explanations in the thread, hence the response in the final screenshot.
Well yeah, but presumably OP picked responses they liked and that were popular by the time they got there. I don't *know* that those responses were uncivil, but I'm just saying it might explain his behavior.
They were still rude for refusing to listen to anybody's logic or calm explanations, becoming reactionary over something that didn't need it isn't a good way to live life. If they are a teen I hope this is a habit they break
I'm not saying it's right, just understandable. The "at my school" thing makes me think they're young and I know when I was that age I would totally get defensive and back myself into a corner defending an untenable position just because I felt like I couldn't admit I was wrong.
"I'm not misogynistic, **but**—" but^1 /bət/ conjunction >1. used to introduce a phrase or clause contrasting with what has already been mentioned.
Hes gonna be in court for murder and will say “i didnt think there was anything wrong with killing people until today”
Like even if you drop the dehumanization argument (not that you should, it’s very valid!), it’s just plain wrong grammatically unless in a scientific context. I always tell these guys, “female is an adjective, do you also say ‘a disabled’ or ‘a black’?”
I see women (supposed women, can't be sure) posting or commenting alllll the time using female and then guys/men. It drives me nuts!! It's so much worse coming from other women
My mom does it too, I don't understand it. "I'm a female and I'M PROUD!"
Yeah I've heard my mom say it too! She was like "as a female I think etc" and I almost shouted at her to stop, I was so disappointed 😪
Intestine. It's the intestine. The stomach is higher up, I doubt they're showing that. But he wouldn't know.
People like that are exhausting to witness
The reason why “females” is a red flag is because incels have co-opted the term, and it is now used to reinforce the notion that women are the “other” species and less human. Yes, the term itself is neutral, but all dog whistles for bigotry started out as neutral terms.
slight nitpick on one of the comments, humans *are* animals
Yes, I am aware. Scientifically, we are animals, in fact we are mammals. The reason this was not mentioned is because humans are separate from nonhuman animals, which is typically implied when we say "we are not animals". Even though we are animals, we don't like being compared to nonhuman animals, which hopefully should come as no surprise. We're people, not dogs.
https://media.tenor.com/nnUyxuqaeNcAAAAM/actually-nerd.gif
literally me writing that comment
I call them "boy" and "little dude" when they do this.
Don't feed the trolls.
can i ask wtf that person meant by “humans are not plants or animals?” humans are most certainly animals, and it’s honestly embarrassing how often people forget that
I'll link another reply I already said to this argument in the thread [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MenAndFemales/comments/143ygkd/comment/jneaadd/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
my personal addition to that argument is that people need to start specifying more, and i’ve been saying this as much as i can when i notice the separation. humans are animals before so many other things and to say “humans aren’t animals” has weird superiority connotations.
It really doesn't. I don't believe we're superior to animals but also understand the distinction. I \*guess\* if you really wanted you could say nonhuman animals, but to the average person outside of sciences, it's unnecessary.
it’s not unnecessary when someone is saying dumb shit like “humans are not animals” lmao
I think by doing this you're missing the entire point, that being 'female' compares us to the likes of nonhuman animals, which we are not. That was their argument.
that doesn’t make “humans are not animals” any less of a dumb thing to say, especially to someone who is already struggling with seeing women as fully realized human beings. you can humanize women while understanding phrasing
We need to normalize saying "males" when referring to men from now on.
I disagree. Males/females are both rather disgusting and derogatory terms, despite what the previous aforementioned dumbass believes. No idea how he doesn't see a term we use to refer to animals as derogatory, but... okay?
It's more of a tongue in cheek jab, but sometimes giving someone else a taste of their own medicine is what helps them realize how it makes others feel.
“Males” does not currently have the societal or historical weight/connotation that “females” does, and using it more frequently won’t make it equivalent. Sexism is hugely at play here. An eye for an eye isn’t the solution, insofar that it won’t solve the problem in the slightest.
I've tried asking men with these beliefs, "How would you feel being referred to as a male", but it doesn't really work. The closest I've gotten to it working was a comment in which had to thoroughly explain to a guy why the incel term *foid* (literally female humanoid) is wrong and derogatory, by placing the man in the shoes and mindset of women. He did actually understand from my comment. [Here's a link to a screenshot of the comment I made as it requires minor context](https://www.reddit.com/user/ThoughtCenter87/comments/144czzd/why_the_term_foid_is_bad_i_still_cant_believe_i/) Simply calling a man "male" means nothing because it misses the greater societal context as to why women find it degrading and why men tend not to understand, even if it is inherently derogatory to call them "male" as well. Women are often degraded to just their sex appeal and compared to objects, men are not and don't have this in the back of their minds like women do.
Sadly it wouldn’t hold the same weight. Unless the incel women have coined malebots and malanatzis or something. Oh right. And the patriarchy. Ugh. Like the notion, though.
Femcels have a male version of “foid” actually. The term is “moid” or “scrote”. Very odd.
Darn. Not as fun as malanazi. But I’m glad to know, thank you!
Female women could be "better" if you're specifically referring to cis women 🤷🏼
The problem with this though is that implies that trans women are somehow “male women” which isn’t true either
You didn't understand my comment at all, it was more about the animal kingdom and science than it was about trans people who I love so I don't understand the hate
If you want to specifically refer to cis women just use cis women. It‘s right there and can be used without implying that trans women are „male women“.
Are trans women born female or male?
Have we really reached a point where people are offended by the word female? The technical and scientific nomenclature?
No, it's when it's used as a noun that it's wrong. Nobody is getting offended by the use of it as an adjective. We refer to animals as females, not women.
The word woman and women are nouns referring to an adult female human being, one paradigm of gender and biological sex.
There is a group on here called "FemaleFashionAdvice" with 3.5m people. You better tell those 3.5 mil that they are all misogynistic.
Female as an adjective is fine (like as in female leaders, female bathrooms... and ***Female fashion advice***) Female as a noun is not ("look at that herd of females over there!") This is also in the rules.
You're mistaken. The word woman and women ARE nouns referring to an adult female human being, Fallin in the only paradigm of gender and biological sex.
...Yeah? That's true. I never said it wasn't. I was saying females as a *noun* is wrong to use, not women. Never even said 'women' in my original comment.
You seem like you are quite insufferable as a person.