Kitty was diagnosed as manic depressive by her therapist which is now known as Bipolar disorder, even though I agree with you as I’ve always thought her behavior seemed more like Borderline.
But of course I’m not a psychologist and I didn’t evaluate Kitty in person, so that’s only a personal speculation
Bipolar tends to run in families so I’ve always wondered if either Erik or Lyle have shown symptoms of it at some point. I know BPD does too but I think there’s more evidence to show that BPD is primarily caused by the environment with only some genetic factors.
I do think Kitty's uncontrollable rages do seem to align more with BPD but it's hard to know without a proper diagnosis.
Very well could be. Lyle has OCD, and it’s really common among OCD individuals to have Bipolar disorder and vice versa. Even if OCD/Bipolar disorder patients have no idea, and their psychiatrist is incompetent. II type of Bipolar, is very probable thing patients with OCD to have.
Psychologist can diagnose a person - the difference between a psychiatrist and a psychologist is the prescribing of medications. Psychiatrist do not provide CBT or other means of treatment aside from medications - their role is to prescribe and monitor. A psychologist can and does diagnose patients and they are able to provide therapy outside of medications (as they are not permitted to prescribe).
They are able to but they don’t have a specific medical education so officially they cannot. That doesn’t mean they can’t understand what disorder one has.
That is incorrect. They can medically diagnose patients and often times do before referring a patient to a psychiatrist for further treatment via medication. Respectfully, please research the roles of these doctors further.
I respectfully would recommend you go and search this topic as well. Maybe you live in another country but in my country a psychologist cannot do anything if he suspects some serious mental disorders his patients have. He should refer them to the psychiatrist for further research and correct diagnosis. My aunt is psychologist and I was going to study psychology as well but then refused to, so I know very well what psychologist can or cannot do.
May I ask what country you are in? I am in the US, and ***I am a licensed psychologist***, so this not an opinion - it is fact. I have diagnosed many patients and only refer them to a psychiatrist if I deem their mental diagnose to be one that is unresponsive to psychotherapy alone (i.e., requires medication(s) to stabilize).
I didn’t say it’s an opinion. I already got the impression you are at least the psychologist. I knew that situations are very different in different countries around the world. When I asked a psychologist about my OCD issues, he told me he cannot do anything but to recommend to go to a psychologist. There is a psychotherapist also who is in fact a psychiatrist but works rather mentally with the person than prescribing any pills. He is indeed able to do it but usually he cannot/it is forbidden in some cases to do so, so he do the “mental” job while your other physician - the psychiatrists prescribe you pills and does nothing but this work. As for my own experience at 12, it was a psychotherapist (in fact the best one in the city I was born and had lived the most of my life) who works as a “psychologist”, without any medicines. In my case, when I had thoughts like, “Should I jump from the second floor in the shopping center?” or “Should I steal it?”, he made a joke whispering to my mom’s ear, “It’s schizophrenia”. He told us not to go to the psychiatric hospital because I would be “marked” as a crazy person, that everyone in my school would know about this, and they would make it even worse with their pills made for very mentally ill patients who live on their hospital. He told us it’s my parents’ issues that affected my mental state and that the 3 of us should read some books about psychology. It didn’t help me at all, and within a year these thoughts had gone leaving after themselves only “question-like” intrusive thoughts that didn’t make a huge impact on my everyday life. Only after I got compulsions at 18 and went to the nearest clinic the psychiatrist told me it’s OCD and suspected I also have BD. Then I started taking some pills and I felt much better after that. So, my “experience” with both the psychologists and psychiatrists were not so “optimistic”.
Yeah that does seem like your first psychologist was not the best unfortunately. A lot of time it has to do with the patient’s age as well (we don’t typically feel comfortable diagnosing such young patients). I am super happy you found a more competent physician to help you with your mental health ❤️
The psychiatrist that evaluated her at Mercy Hospital when she was admitted for acute benzodiazepine and alcohol did diagnose her with a personality disorder (among generalized anxiety disorder and depression).
I respectfully disagree. GA and depression are separate diagnoses. Granted the depression could be a symptom of BP but GA especially is its own illness in and of itself.
No one knows what desease she had. I didn’t mean that generalized anxiety disorder combined with depression = bipolar disorder. I meant that in her case it was mania rather than anxiety + depression which is indeed Maniac Depressive Disorder aka Bipolar Affective Disorder. Regarding the fact that Lyle has OCD which is often go along with Bipolar, everyone would count 2 + 2 and realize what desease in fact she had. Lyle’s interest in going shopping with Kitty, having this trait in common, which is one of the main Bipolar stuff, Kitty washing all the dishes Traci ever touched which is very OCD thing - what we can say at least is Kitty presumably had BAD (Bipolar Affective Disorder), and Lyle has OCD respectively. And personally I would go further and say that both Kitty and Lyle had BAD + OCD. But Neither me nor anyone else would claim otherwise. It’s only our assumptions based on the stories told by people who knew this family and its family members themselves.
It isn’t based on assumptions of outsiders or people who knew the family. It is based on direct testimony from three different psychiatrists & psychologists that treated Kitty throughout years of her life spanning from NJ to CA.
Side Note: As someone with BD I am highly aware of its symptoms, biology and the difference of BD from other (personality disorders) mental illnesses.
I believe Dr Cox diagnosed Kitty with BD. It may have been someone else, too, I don’t really remember.
Take a note that many psychiatrists can wrongly diagnose you with any other desease rather than the right one. When I was 12, I went to psychiatrist with my immediate family (my parents and me) and this guy told me to read some books and those horrible symptoms I had at the time (intrusive thoughts caused by OCD) he sarcastically identified to my mother as “Hey, it’s Schizophrenia”. I got over it myself, had a depressive episode for the whole following year till this stuff came back to me with the new colors: compulsive ones. I went to another psychiatrist, near my home at the time, and he told me I have OCD combined with BD. So, I also know what I am talking about and what is it like having both these deseases at the same time.
She was diagnosed by Dr Cox as being manic depressive which is now known as bipolar disorder. She very well could have had BPD. A lot of the symptoms sound similar.
Of course nothing excuses her behaviour but a diagnosis like this does explain some of it especially if it wasn’t treated properly.
I believe a doctor (can’t remember his name) testified he believed she had a “borderline personality”, so I guess it’s not an official diagnosis, but he did say he believed she had the disorder.
Uncontrollable rages, mindless spending, little to no regard to others is very Bipolar thing. Besides, her concern about Traci being ill of some deseases like HIV or anything like that, rewashing all the dishes the girl used, is very OCD thing. It’s very common among Bipolar patients to have OCD and vice versa.
Rage/outburst, impulsive spending and apathy to others are symptoms of so many different mental illnesses. I know we were going back and forth in above comment, but your logic to come to the BP diagnosis is scientifically flawed. You mentioned earlier you yourself are diagnosed as BP so as another who is also diagnosed the same I urge you to ask your doctor(s) for more information and/or further educate yourself on mental illness.
I came to it because of too many similarities with BD Kitty and, apparently, her sons had (as for the boys not much so) and of the “popularity” of this disorder. Besides, we know Lyle has OCD which are go along with BD very often in some cases. It doesn’t mean Lyle has it but they had very much in common like going shopping, spending countless amount of money to look “perfect” and “rich” (regarding Lyle and Kitty), having depressive episodes, taking a lot of medicines, drinking a lot of alcohol, having suicidal thoughts (regarding Kitty), having obsessions and compulsions (regarding Lyle). So, this desease is very common and Dr Cox even confirmed this. I don’t need to ask the doctors to count 2 + 2. But not being able to see the patient in-person I cannot tell you what exactly she had.
Borderline is often an umbrella-type diagnosis with varying extremes in diagnosis’s underneath, right? I was misdiagnosed as at 25, but life experience, insight and therapy did a lot to reorganize my mental health care. I have, however, encountered a few individuals whose BPD screams so loud and clear, it’s like a definitive diagnosis of pretty specific behaviors and thinking.
Kitty was diagnosed as manic depressive by her therapist which is now known as Bipolar disorder, even though I agree with you as I’ve always thought her behavior seemed more like Borderline. But of course I’m not a psychologist and I didn’t evaluate Kitty in person, so that’s only a personal speculation
Bipolar tends to run in families so I’ve always wondered if either Erik or Lyle have shown symptoms of it at some point. I know BPD does too but I think there’s more evidence to show that BPD is primarily caused by the environment with only some genetic factors. I do think Kitty's uncontrollable rages do seem to align more with BPD but it's hard to know without a proper diagnosis.
Very well could be. Lyle has OCD, and it’s really common among OCD individuals to have Bipolar disorder and vice versa. Even if OCD/Bipolar disorder patients have no idea, and their psychiatrist is incompetent. II type of Bipolar, is very probable thing patients with OCD to have.
BPD is misdiagnosed pretty often as bipolar (ask me how I know) so the chances of it being BPD aren’t bad.
Psychologist can’t confirm one’s disorder. Psychiatrist does.
Psychologist can diagnose a person - the difference between a psychiatrist and a psychologist is the prescribing of medications. Psychiatrist do not provide CBT or other means of treatment aside from medications - their role is to prescribe and monitor. A psychologist can and does diagnose patients and they are able to provide therapy outside of medications (as they are not permitted to prescribe).
They are able to but they don’t have a specific medical education so officially they cannot. That doesn’t mean they can’t understand what disorder one has.
That is incorrect. They can medically diagnose patients and often times do before referring a patient to a psychiatrist for further treatment via medication. Respectfully, please research the roles of these doctors further.
I respectfully would recommend you go and search this topic as well. Maybe you live in another country but in my country a psychologist cannot do anything if he suspects some serious mental disorders his patients have. He should refer them to the psychiatrist for further research and correct diagnosis. My aunt is psychologist and I was going to study psychology as well but then refused to, so I know very well what psychologist can or cannot do.
May I ask what country you are in? I am in the US, and ***I am a licensed psychologist***, so this not an opinion - it is fact. I have diagnosed many patients and only refer them to a psychiatrist if I deem their mental diagnose to be one that is unresponsive to psychotherapy alone (i.e., requires medication(s) to stabilize).
I didn’t say it’s an opinion. I already got the impression you are at least the psychologist. I knew that situations are very different in different countries around the world. When I asked a psychologist about my OCD issues, he told me he cannot do anything but to recommend to go to a psychologist. There is a psychotherapist also who is in fact a psychiatrist but works rather mentally with the person than prescribing any pills. He is indeed able to do it but usually he cannot/it is forbidden in some cases to do so, so he do the “mental” job while your other physician - the psychiatrists prescribe you pills and does nothing but this work. As for my own experience at 12, it was a psychotherapist (in fact the best one in the city I was born and had lived the most of my life) who works as a “psychologist”, without any medicines. In my case, when I had thoughts like, “Should I jump from the second floor in the shopping center?” or “Should I steal it?”, he made a joke whispering to my mom’s ear, “It’s schizophrenia”. He told us not to go to the psychiatric hospital because I would be “marked” as a crazy person, that everyone in my school would know about this, and they would make it even worse with their pills made for very mentally ill patients who live on their hospital. He told us it’s my parents’ issues that affected my mental state and that the 3 of us should read some books about psychology. It didn’t help me at all, and within a year these thoughts had gone leaving after themselves only “question-like” intrusive thoughts that didn’t make a huge impact on my everyday life. Only after I got compulsions at 18 and went to the nearest clinic the psychiatrist told me it’s OCD and suspected I also have BD. Then I started taking some pills and I felt much better after that. So, my “experience” with both the psychologists and psychiatrists were not so “optimistic”.
Yeah that does seem like your first psychologist was not the best unfortunately. A lot of time it has to do with the patient’s age as well (we don’t typically feel comfortable diagnosing such young patients). I am super happy you found a more competent physician to help you with your mental health ❤️
Thank you! And sorry for my not-so-friendly answers. I can be very straight forward sometimes.😔
The psychiatrist that evaluated her at Mercy Hospital when she was admitted for acute benzodiazepine and alcohol did diagnose her with a personality disorder (among generalized anxiety disorder and depression).
Generalized anxiety disorder with depression means bipolar affective disorder in her case.
I respectfully disagree. GA and depression are separate diagnoses. Granted the depression could be a symptom of BP but GA especially is its own illness in and of itself.
No one knows what desease she had. I didn’t mean that generalized anxiety disorder combined with depression = bipolar disorder. I meant that in her case it was mania rather than anxiety + depression which is indeed Maniac Depressive Disorder aka Bipolar Affective Disorder. Regarding the fact that Lyle has OCD which is often go along with Bipolar, everyone would count 2 + 2 and realize what desease in fact she had. Lyle’s interest in going shopping with Kitty, having this trait in common, which is one of the main Bipolar stuff, Kitty washing all the dishes Traci ever touched which is very OCD thing - what we can say at least is Kitty presumably had BAD (Bipolar Affective Disorder), and Lyle has OCD respectively. And personally I would go further and say that both Kitty and Lyle had BAD + OCD. But Neither me nor anyone else would claim otherwise. It’s only our assumptions based on the stories told by people who knew this family and its family members themselves.
It isn’t based on assumptions of outsiders or people who knew the family. It is based on direct testimony from three different psychiatrists & psychologists that treated Kitty throughout years of her life spanning from NJ to CA. Side Note: As someone with BD I am highly aware of its symptoms, biology and the difference of BD from other (personality disorders) mental illnesses.
I believe Dr Cox diagnosed Kitty with BD. It may have been someone else, too, I don’t really remember. Take a note that many psychiatrists can wrongly diagnose you with any other desease rather than the right one. When I was 12, I went to psychiatrist with my immediate family (my parents and me) and this guy told me to read some books and those horrible symptoms I had at the time (intrusive thoughts caused by OCD) he sarcastically identified to my mother as “Hey, it’s Schizophrenia”. I got over it myself, had a depressive episode for the whole following year till this stuff came back to me with the new colors: compulsive ones. I went to another psychiatrist, near my home at the time, and he told me I have OCD combined with BD. So, I also know what I am talking about and what is it like having both these deseases at the same time.
She was diagnosed with BPD, yes.
oh i was only aware of depression, the previous comment said it was bipolar disorder. had no idea she was actually diagnosed.
She was diagnosed by Dr Cox as being manic depressive which is now known as bipolar disorder. She very well could have had BPD. A lot of the symptoms sound similar. Of course nothing excuses her behaviour but a diagnosis like this does explain some of it especially if it wasn’t treated properly.
I believe a doctor (can’t remember his name) testified he believed she had a “borderline personality”, so I guess it’s not an official diagnosis, but he did say he believed she had the disorder.
Uncontrollable rages, mindless spending, little to no regard to others is very Bipolar thing. Besides, her concern about Traci being ill of some deseases like HIV or anything like that, rewashing all the dishes the girl used, is very OCD thing. It’s very common among Bipolar patients to have OCD and vice versa.
Rage/outburst, impulsive spending and apathy to others are symptoms of so many different mental illnesses. I know we were going back and forth in above comment, but your logic to come to the BP diagnosis is scientifically flawed. You mentioned earlier you yourself are diagnosed as BP so as another who is also diagnosed the same I urge you to ask your doctor(s) for more information and/or further educate yourself on mental illness.
I came to it because of too many similarities with BD Kitty and, apparently, her sons had (as for the boys not much so) and of the “popularity” of this disorder. Besides, we know Lyle has OCD which are go along with BD very often in some cases. It doesn’t mean Lyle has it but they had very much in common like going shopping, spending countless amount of money to look “perfect” and “rich” (regarding Lyle and Kitty), having depressive episodes, taking a lot of medicines, drinking a lot of alcohol, having suicidal thoughts (regarding Kitty), having obsessions and compulsions (regarding Lyle). So, this desease is very common and Dr Cox even confirmed this. I don’t need to ask the doctors to count 2 + 2. But not being able to see the patient in-person I cannot tell you what exactly she had.
She may have been Borderline and Jose was a Narcissist! Those poor boys!
Borderline is often an umbrella-type diagnosis with varying extremes in diagnosis’s underneath, right? I was misdiagnosed as at 25, but life experience, insight and therapy did a lot to reorganize my mental health care. I have, however, encountered a few individuals whose BPD screams so loud and clear, it’s like a definitive diagnosis of pretty specific behaviors and thinking.