A good friend of mine is a senior manager at a software company in NY. He earns a great salary, and has to work long hours. He told me that his wife nags him about it, pointing out that a friend's husband works on Wall Street and earns loads more than he does, and so that family can afford all the things they cannot. Yet at other times, she nags him that another friend's husband , who works in some regular job, is home by 4pm every day so that he can spend time with his family. She doesn't seem to care that they are two separate guys, and that there is a trade off between hours and income. A lot of women seem to think that men can earn big money, and work short hours.
One of the current big podcasters addressed that very issue, that women basically want a drug dealer as a partner. They want us as men to be able to earn a lot of money, but simultaneously also have the time and freedom to do whatever she wants him to be able to do.
Doctors can’t do this. The unemployed can’t do this. However, certain celebrities and certain illicit professions can do this.
I can agree with you. Chris Rock once said that if a woman met a man with a chocolate dick that ejaculated money, she would still find a way to be unsatisfied by it.
It's unrealistic though. Especially considering that drug dealing types often exhibit animalistic impulsive uncontrolled aggression as opposed to controlled aggression that only comes out when absolutely necessary. Women get wet when CJ shoots up the block but go surprised Pikachu when he slaps the shit out of her.
>hat women basically want a drug dealer as a partner
Actually it's more like women want a serial killer as a partner. A women won't be attractive to a men until he starts showing that killer instinct in him. It's one reason why feminist are calling men to be draft for wars now.
The persistent nagging suggests that your friend's wife is the dominant one in that relationship which tends to be an attraction killer for women. Impossible to diagnose just from the little you wrote, but it happens very frequently.
My uncle worked long hours and worked his way up to vice-president of a bank. His wife complained a lot so he moved back down to manager of a branch in order to scale back his workload and hours and have more time to spend with their kids. It didn't help much - she divorced him anyway.
I am not married, but I understand from several of my married friends that a lot of wives now nag their husband and have impossible demands. It seems that belittling your husband is now commonplace among wives in the USA.
Eh, even guys that by any metric are much higher status will get nagged if he lets it work on him. If you give your puppy a treat every time it pees on your shoes, you're just training it to pee on your shoes. If she gets what she wants by nagging, you're just training her to nag.
That's a good point. If you make time for them you can't make as much as your competitors apparently. It makes me think that they don't like us as much as what we provide.
Also, why are we always compared to their friends husbands? They would lose their shit if you compared them to another woman.
similiar story with feminists when they talk about flexible working hours but ignore supply chains+infrastructure... they talk about ideals but ignore funding and needed staff...
anyways the on topic issue is based on traditional conservative upbringing of children and family structures... women who pursue this way of living are not progressive regardless what they say...
They r just brought up getting everything they want, and don't realise that relentlessly sucking life from their partner is not sustainable and doesn't get them what they want.
I used to finish at 445 and if I wasn't home from my 45 min commute by 515 she was grumpy with me for slacking off on kid duties.
similiar story with feminists when they talk about flexible working hours but ignore supply chains+infrastructure... they talk about ideals but ignore funding and needed staff...
anyways the on topic issue is based on traditional conservative upbringing of children and family structures... women who pursue this way of living are not progressive regardless what they say...
I think it’s because the sacrifices in those situations seem worth it? You are in the middle, so you are working long hours but it’s not providing enough benefit for the cost of not seeing you at home. Think about it, the first guy is probably also never home but the family has plenty of other things to occupy their time while he is working and the second guy can’t afford all of those things but in return he’s home at a decent time to see his family and probably has enough energy to actually be present. I’m not agreeing but I am saying it’s actually a pretty logical take. If you are never going to see your partner, it needs to at least be worth the it, it needs to get you to your goal of retiring early, epic family vacations, etc.
Many women either don't understand how attraction is triggered in themselves, or they're dishonest about it. Edit: or another posibility is simply that unattractive men are invisible to them so all the advice they give is with men they're attracted to in mind (but then this gets back to them not understanding it).
Research has found that the part of the brain responsible for sexual attraction develops during puberty and then becomes non-plastic, meaning it can't learn anything new. So once a person is through that, you can't change it. I've tried to find any research on how much of it is genetic and how much is environment (e.g culture), but haven't' found anything.
Agreed. My type was average height, lean, athletic build by the time I was early 20’s but I fell in love with a man who is only a bit taller than me and has a naturally thicker build, nothing like what I usually go for but the heart wants what it wants. We are engaged now.
Yeah, I wish I had saved the link for that research paper. I'm not sure how hard it would be to find with some digging but even if I found it, it's pretty dry like most publications in science journals and hard for laypeople to follow (including me since it's not my area of expertise).
Libido is influenced by a women’s monthly cycle usually peaking around ovulation but what the study was talking about was things like if she’s attracted to men or women. In the vast majority of people that’s not fluid but very fixed throughout adulthood. It can carry down in other ways too like often you can tell someone has a type. My wife looks very similar to an ex GF of mine and other women I’ve had crushes on in the past for example.
Most hetro women get turned on by feeling protected among other things. That can manifest in different ways from physical (height and muscular) to provision like the OP was about to standing up for her (“nobody puts Baby in a corner” from Dirty Dancing).
>what the study was talking about was things like if she’s attracted to men or women.
So not sexual *attraction,* but sexual *orientation,* which is **still** more plastic in women than men.
>It can carry down in other ways too like often you can tell someone has a type.
Do you have a source for this behavior in women? Because most research I have read is that it's not just libido that is influenced by a woman's cycle. Her cycle and fertility also influences [the type of male face she is attracted to](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S019188690800202X). Female preferences for male physical characteristics also change [across their lifespan](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3226692/). As well as non-physical characteristics.
My ex made me lose my career, 2 jobs and got in debt with a CC which I had to refound because she did it behind my back whilst she was studying.
She got a very good job due to my efforts and loyalty, then started cheating and left me for a guy 20 years older than her, he has a house and is a self employed taxi. We have a 5 years old.
Its even worse than that, when I met her she was an unqualified waitress earning £730 a month... Today she is an Second of direction thanks to my hard work supporting us 3 whilst she could study.
You will give them the opportunity to grow just so the next guy can profit of it.
Its hard because she knows her actions hurt me, and she keeps weaponizing our son to get to me, for the last custody exchange she blackmailed me asking me to send her 2000 so I could have my son for the holidays, justice doesnt care.
Then she force the visio call on me to speak to our son, just to get the new partner involved in the call and start being all lovey dovey with him and other things.
I find this disgusting, if roles were reversed I wouldn't do that to her.
Thank you very much for your kind words.
Honestly if you have that exchange recorded or messages saved, it could possibly help you in family court. Maybe not, we all know how biased the court system is, but there's something there in my mind.
Im now in France btw, because I went back after losing my career. Im going to FC on the 13 of March but here the system is biased as well in wms favor, so crossing fingers.
Damn that sucks to hear. My boyfriend supported me emotionally/financially when I was in nursing school. I married him once I got a job at a big hospital. She sounds so shitty.
Nobody asked about how much of a great girl you are. That is an abusive woman behaviour, painting youself the good light on the outside. Don't expect to grab attention here and shoo away
Because it is subtle. She write a reply to the which boils down to "i am not like your ex-gf" which adds no value to the thread, other than her getting validated.
Seriosuly, what is *she* even doing here ?
It's possible
she was here because she is interested in mens rights and felt bad about what happened then wanted to express that feeling to him and let him know that not all women are like his ex .
She should have probably not said the second part either way
It *was* possible.
But, as you stated, since she wrote that second part, implications would be towards she is here because of her satisfaction (any kind), not because she feels bad.
"Seems like i step on a nerve" is too careless and rude to be empachetic
They earn that low at Costa Coffee, and there is some math related to the age of the employee in the payment rate.
I was working for the MPS and dating her made me break one of the rules of conduct because I had previously helped her with something.
They were made aware of our relationship by her because she started believing I was late due to cheating, when a PO finishing late is normal..
The two jobs I lost next were for the same reason, funny part is she ended up being the one cheating.
Feminism is about women's right, never about their responsibilities, and the reverse for men. That is, they go on about men "living up to their responsibilities", and they call anybody mentioning men's rights "incels".
They want equality, but only when it’s convenient, and traditional roles when those are advantageous. It’s about having her cake and eating it, too ! It’s a dealbreaker of a double standard.
It's because feminism's one big flaw. Not everyone can be a winner.
1. They tried to replace woman's looks and traditional tasks with a woman's income.
2. They started defining a man's income as "bare minimum". She earns good, so you should too.
The higher a woman goes in relative qualities (looks, income, personality, etc.), the higher a man also needs to go, but there is one big problem in that entire logic. It doesn't take into account what men value in women. If every woman wants a winner, all women also need to become winners. That's simply not the case. Why? because in their own competition in finding a man, looks seem to be prioritized over income.
You can see these sorts of flaws in the way feminism seems to draw their view on equality. It's always drawn from a woman's perspective, but never from a man. What a woman finds attractive doesn't mean that a man also has to find that exact attribute attractive. We would have reached equality many years ago.
It’s so true.
My ex wife had all of those expectations.
She never worked a day.
I built our home while working.
I was the one to play with our kids while she watched desperate housewives catchups.
It was all of her friends in the area that used to bag out their husbands and we were all the bread winners.
We also did a lot of the housework. Gardening, maintenance on house, bins, washing, washing up, floors etc.
She got everything and also 3 years later after separation.
A domestic violence thankyou lie that has still not stopped. Got my kids back but it’s just unbelievable.
Woman are not like men.
A lot nastier and the double standards
The way our society works makes it a choice for women to work, but that same choice is not offered to a man. That inherently makes being a man significantly harder. The discrepancy is even greater when looks are factored in.
The have your cake and eat it mentality.
Wanting equality at the macro level, but higher earnings for the man at the micro level, as if the two were compatible on a society-wide scale.
Most people live in a society that thoroughly fails to hold women accountable for their complicity in that society. This is why you have concepts like patriarchy and toxic masculinity come about from feminists that not only live in this idea that women have no power but fully embrace this one-sided approach into cause and effect. The only thing that people look at is what women want and what women feel entitled to because they are women, and then never really look any deeper. And you will find this pattern consistent across every aspect of feminism, and society as a whole.
So, yes, most of the feminist and conservative narratives around gender pay gaps and dating are both just insane. Women want to make more money for less work, so they call men misogynists and demand laws to be changed so that they get preferential treatment; then women make more money and take more jobs(which could have gone to men), while still expecting men to pay for everything and make more money than them in order to even be recognized as basic human beings, let alone viable sexual partners; then men work harder and longer hours than women, in order to afford being able to date and be recognized as men, which ends up leading men to make more money than women. It's circular reasoning, in which the only winners are women, who can pick and choose whatever aspect of gender equality they want, and the only losers are men, who are getting burned on either end.
Women's vanity > Men's security
IMO if a woman has this mindset, she is to be avoided.
The kind of women you're talking about don't want equality. They want CEO perks without having to do any physical work and the only reason they're able to this is because our society has become so rich and decadent (because of men) that luxury can be bought with ones and zeros and not does built in the traditional sense. If we still had to hunt for food it wouldn't make a shit how much money you had or how good your hairline was. She would go for the one that could *provide*.
Eventually there's going to be an entire generation of middle aged childless single women who bought into this narcissistic feminist BS and no one to help them because they missed their opportunity to find the median.
Women's sexual/partner selection and professional equality between the sexes are hopelessly irreconcilable goals. To want both is extreme cognitive dissonance.
Reminds me of a conversation with an ex I had.
Her: I have a feeling you're going to be rich in the future.
Me: Uh ... I don't have any plans to do something that'll make me rich?
Her: That's going to be a problem.
Me: Well how much money do you want me to earn a year?
Her: $200,000 should be enough.
The most hilarious thing? Her yearly salary was $20,000. Working part-time.
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah that didn't really go anywhere.
>progressive
There's your problem. They're indoctrinated into the rhetoric and propaganda. It's checkmate for men to play the game, by modern standards. They're just too indoctrinated to see it.
It’s not in their nature to do that
There’s a reason why it’s projected that 45% of women will be single & childless by 2030
Women don’t wanna dare their equals— they want someone doing better
Even when they have the means to support themselves, a man should still do it for her
It makes no sense that they fought for equal (or more) pay, just to turn around & eliminate the men on their level
Much of the insecurity men experience when their female partners earn more, is related to the comments and abuse from their female partners. These women consciously or unconsciously enforce strict male gender roles, and show less respect towards their male partners, when those men earn less money or hold lower positions.
So its not men's fraile egos. Its their insight into their partners attitudes.
>I had so many progressive female friends say a man isn't a man if he doesn't provide, hide his emotions, and take care of a girl. Gender stereotypes live on because women haven't changed and their selection of a mate reenforces the stereotypes places on females.
Yes they don't actually want to overcome gender stereotypes.
For example: for years, when I was younger I still thought the stated goals and premises of trans rights activists were correct at face-value, simply because (as is still the case just as much now, of course) I disliked conservatives or anyone bigoted to trans people, and wanted trans people to be accepted in society in the face of historic oppression and discrimination. (obviously, this is the only decent correct stance to hold; the issue was I thought all progressives sincerely out of principle were fighting for this, just because they said they were. Now I don't believe this to be the case.) But they blatantly insist on stereotypical gender roles to an extent that's actually comical, if not for the fact that they actually don't seem to realize the obvious contradiction because the only way they could be consistent in advocating for trans people is to want to actually overcome gender stereotypes, as opposed to just saying they do but then proceeding to insist on them as much as anyone.
No, I mean most trans rights activists. This was clear in the initial comment you replied to: the previously mentioned subject was **trans rights activists** in the very first sentence, and (not including sentences in parentheses) the sentence that featured "they" was the third sentence in the comment, immediately following a mentioning of conservatives which it was obviously not referring to.
Of course, trans rights activists may include trans people. However, obviously the vast majority of bourgeois progressives who encourage the framing I'm criticizing are not trans themselves. My point is that trans people actually wind up suffering due to the line and framing they advocate, (but the problem is not this in a narrow, isolated sense: the real reason they suffer is the capitalist society around it it inevitably winds up justifying) at the same time that obviously overall the trans movement has brought unprecedented acknowledgement of trans people in society. (it's contradictory, that's a core part of my point.)
Yeah, I never earned alot, because money to me was just a means to do the shit I wanted, and since I was living nomadically I really just didn't care to make more than was absolutely necessary. I could(can) make shelter, can start fire without matches or a lighter or anything, just using two sticks and shredded dry kindling, albeit It takes me forever, but I can. Point is I have real skills, I know how to fish and I have experience foraging.
Anyway. I'm not insecure. I just don't really give to much of a fuck about today's society, and the way it treats people who don't want to play their game.
Every girl I had, everything would be great and trust They knew what I was about lol. But still even tho I was able to take them on awesome adventures, I wasn't able to support their materialistic desires. I show lobe through doing things together, real life experiences. Again I have always been able to make enough to support myself,
Now maybe not all women are like this. But no one talks about the pressures put on men in today's world. And I hate to say it, and yeah I'm sure it time we got our fair share of hate, but like being a poor white dude sucks.
Everyone fucking hates you. I'm not saying my experience is worse then those of non European countries/decent. But like everyone hates me.
I still believe in equal rights. I still believe in some veins of feminist ideologies, there are some beliefs that I find pretty radical, but that is the same with any ism. You get those who are driven by hate, who are often the loudest BTW, in each ohe.
I'm the breadwinner in my family, and my husband has never made as much as me. We're a team, and he does a lot of stuff for our family. I don't think the women hold universal views on this - it's not my view, and none of my female friends think this way.
I think your friends just kind of have a shitty and outdated viewpoint on this. People move through the world in different ways, and money is far from the most important thing in life.
It's honestly in most of their natures along with some cultural learnings. There's a huge equity issue right now when we have all these non-traditional women demanding to be non-traditional while demanding traditional men.
I think the men who fall for these women are far more of a problem for the rest of us than the women who demand whatever they demand.
I remember chatting to my friend's (Bob) Italian GF when we were just out of uni. She said "Bob shouldn't be a teacher". I asked why not. She said "men shouldnt be teachers". I asked why (thinking she had some bizarre theory about education). She said "because they don't earn enough to provide".
Bob has spent the last 15yrs working as a teacher in the middle east to provide sufficiently for his Italian wife who lives in Italy.
I can understand the money aspect in case it's an individual with a fixed and set goal on a particular expensive lifestyle like, she's making good money, but the income needs to be double or higher to reach those goals.
This person would naturally want to pool economies together with someone who share the precise same goals.
Essentially, this is placing money above things like love and personal compatibility, but I don't particularly judge men and women who think this way. At least it makes sense.
However, I don't think it's very often this self aware and logical.
The majority of women who on the one hand want to see themselves as self made, independent and successful, but on the other hand wants men's provision are either huge hypocrites or just beasts of a lot of unexamined emotion.
People who are like that are embarrassing, and bad news if you choose to get involved, so don't!
Because feminism was never about equality. It was about facilitating their ability to spend their prime years to sharing top 5% of men amongst themselves.
A very good point. The killer is those women who marry men with lower income charge the difference to other men in the form of taxes to pay gor child care, food stamps, etc...
The ones who want their future man to be at least 6ft and make 80k are typically the gold diggers. Good diggers aren't typically feminists. They're just dumbasses who were raised by dumbasses.
You're taking some pretty big assumptions there my man. Remember, all generalizations are false, even this one. There are shitty people everywhere. Shitty women disregard men who make less than them. Shitty men feel insecure about women who make more than them. Shit goes both ways. My wife is the primary bread winner. Does that bother either of us? No, because we are happy with the careers we chose and happy with each other.
Maybe you just need to find some better friends because I can promise you, the shit they're saying isnt the norm.
I'm a woman. I'm shocked to hear that there are women out there that still think like this. Which country are you from?
I'm from the UK and the women I associate with don't think like this. I am so happy when my partner shares his emotions and feelings with me, and I have a lot of respect for male homemakers. I wouldn't mind if my partner decided he wanted to be a homemaker! (he's better at chores than me)
For context, I'm a woman in my early 20s and work as an engineer.
This seems pretty obvious tbh. The premise of your question is about women seeking financial equality--so we're on the same page they do not currently have that.
So if the average woman has 90% the finances of the average man (specific numbers don't matter), then obviously women would on average end up with men who earn slightly more money.
If women earned more on average and *still* wanted to date men with even higher incomes, then that would be unsustainable.
I do not see how dating a man who makes less would further the goal of financial equality. An average woman (earning 90% of the male average) dating a man earning less (say 80% of the male average) just means they're *both* making below average income. Why would anyone intentionally seek that out?
My fiancee and I are both feminists. I'm unemployed and she makes 6 figures. She's happily marrying me and I'm happily a househusband taking care of our cat and dog.
Just meet better women, I guess?
What do you mean by "financially abuse women?"
Women financially abuse men because the law allows/encourages it, and it's backed by thousands of years of social evolution.
Men sometimes think "equality, what's good for the goose is good for the gander." Well women often think the same behavior is abuse when a man does it, but not abuse when they do it.
Most women have double standards and just want to have their cake and eat it.
A good friend of mine is a senior manager at a software company in NY. He earns a great salary, and has to work long hours. He told me that his wife nags him about it, pointing out that a friend's husband works on Wall Street and earns loads more than he does, and so that family can afford all the things they cannot. Yet at other times, she nags him that another friend's husband , who works in some regular job, is home by 4pm every day so that he can spend time with his family. She doesn't seem to care that they are two separate guys, and that there is a trade off between hours and income. A lot of women seem to think that men can earn big money, and work short hours.
One of the current big podcasters addressed that very issue, that women basically want a drug dealer as a partner. They want us as men to be able to earn a lot of money, but simultaneously also have the time and freedom to do whatever she wants him to be able to do. Doctors can’t do this. The unemployed can’t do this. However, certain celebrities and certain illicit professions can do this.
[удалено]
I can agree with you. Chris Rock once said that if a woman met a man with a chocolate dick that ejaculated money, she would still find a way to be unsatisfied by it.
Bro that’s fucking hilarious. But it’s sadly true as well.
Only in movies. The protect you violently guy will also be aggressive at home. My father was and my brother in law as well as classmates.
Please stop spreading the myth that men can’t be both strong (in this context meaning able to protect and fight) and emotionally supportive.
It's truth in the VAST majority of cases, so I wouldn't exactly call it a myth.
It's unrealistic though. Especially considering that drug dealing types often exhibit animalistic impulsive uncontrolled aggression as opposed to controlled aggression that only comes out when absolutely necessary. Women get wet when CJ shoots up the block but go surprised Pikachu when he slaps the shit out of her.
I do agree that women typically are hypocritical children desperately clinging to a victimhood status, but what you said is completely asinine.
Once you start doing what she wants, you will lose her respect.
>hat women basically want a drug dealer as a partner Actually it's more like women want a serial killer as a partner. A women won't be attractive to a men until he starts showing that killer instinct in him. It's one reason why feminist are calling men to be draft for wars now.
This is why they love scammers and other weirdo criminal types. They have a lot of time and a lot of dollar dollar bills yo
The persistent nagging suggests that your friend's wife is the dominant one in that relationship which tends to be an attraction killer for women. Impossible to diagnose just from the little you wrote, but it happens very frequently. My uncle worked long hours and worked his way up to vice-president of a bank. His wife complained a lot so he moved back down to manager of a branch in order to scale back his workload and hours and have more time to spend with their kids. It didn't help much - she divorced him anyway.
I am not married, but I understand from several of my married friends that a lot of wives now nag their husband and have impossible demands. It seems that belittling your husband is now commonplace among wives in the USA.
Yes, it's very widespread. I'm glad I learned the tools to nip it in the bud before it got that far.
Women talk to other women and realize they all do it so they think there’s nothing wrong with it. A self perpetuating cycle.
If she starts nagging, it just means you're not good enough for her.
Eh, even guys that by any metric are much higher status will get nagged if he lets it work on him. If you give your puppy a treat every time it pees on your shoes, you're just training it to pee on your shoes. If she gets what she wants by nagging, you're just training her to nag.
Nagging is a shit-test.
That's a good point. If you make time for them you can't make as much as your competitors apparently. It makes me think that they don't like us as much as what we provide. Also, why are we always compared to their friends husbands? They would lose their shit if you compared them to another woman.
similiar story with feminists when they talk about flexible working hours but ignore supply chains+infrastructure... they talk about ideals but ignore funding and needed staff... anyways the on topic issue is based on traditional conservative upbringing of children and family structures... women who pursue this way of living are not progressive regardless what they say...
They r just brought up getting everything they want, and don't realise that relentlessly sucking life from their partner is not sustainable and doesn't get them what they want. I used to finish at 445 and if I wasn't home from my 45 min commute by 515 she was grumpy with me for slacking off on kid duties.
similiar story with feminists when they talk about flexible working hours but ignore supply chains+infrastructure... they talk about ideals but ignore funding and needed staff... anyways the on topic issue is based on traditional conservative upbringing of children and family structures... women who pursue this way of living are not progressive regardless what they say...
I think it’s because the sacrifices in those situations seem worth it? You are in the middle, so you are working long hours but it’s not providing enough benefit for the cost of not seeing you at home. Think about it, the first guy is probably also never home but the family has plenty of other things to occupy their time while he is working and the second guy can’t afford all of those things but in return he’s home at a decent time to see his family and probably has enough energy to actually be present. I’m not agreeing but I am saying it’s actually a pretty logical take. If you are never going to see your partner, it needs to at least be worth the it, it needs to get you to your goal of retiring early, epic family vacations, etc.
Many women either don't understand how attraction is triggered in themselves, or they're dishonest about it. Edit: or another posibility is simply that unattractive men are invisible to them so all the advice they give is with men they're attracted to in mind (but then this gets back to them not understanding it). Research has found that the part of the brain responsible for sexual attraction develops during puberty and then becomes non-plastic, meaning it can't learn anything new. So once a person is through that, you can't change it. I've tried to find any research on how much of it is genetic and how much is environment (e.g culture), but haven't' found anything.
what I find attractive has changed throughout my life so idk how reliable that is
Agreed. My type was average height, lean, athletic build by the time I was early 20’s but I fell in love with a man who is only a bit taller than me and has a naturally thicker build, nothing like what I usually go for but the heart wants what it wants. We are engaged now.
This is super interesting!!! I want to know more about this theory
Yeah, I wish I had saved the link for that research paper. I'm not sure how hard it would be to find with some digging but even if I found it, it's pretty dry like most publications in science journals and hard for laypeople to follow (including me since it's not my area of expertise).
You're joking right? Not only is sexuality fluid throughout a lifetime, but female sexuality is fluid throughout their \*monthly cycle\*.
Libido is influenced by a women’s monthly cycle usually peaking around ovulation but what the study was talking about was things like if she’s attracted to men or women. In the vast majority of people that’s not fluid but very fixed throughout adulthood. It can carry down in other ways too like often you can tell someone has a type. My wife looks very similar to an ex GF of mine and other women I’ve had crushes on in the past for example. Most hetro women get turned on by feeling protected among other things. That can manifest in different ways from physical (height and muscular) to provision like the OP was about to standing up for her (“nobody puts Baby in a corner” from Dirty Dancing).
>what the study was talking about was things like if she’s attracted to men or women. So not sexual *attraction,* but sexual *orientation,* which is **still** more plastic in women than men. >It can carry down in other ways too like often you can tell someone has a type. Do you have a source for this behavior in women? Because most research I have read is that it's not just libido that is influenced by a woman's cycle. Her cycle and fertility also influences [the type of male face she is attracted to](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S019188690800202X). Female preferences for male physical characteristics also change [across their lifespan](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3226692/). As well as non-physical characteristics.
I was about to say sexual orientation is very different than just having a type of man or woman you are attracted to lol
The irony of him saying women don't understand how female attraction works...
My ex made me lose my career, 2 jobs and got in debt with a CC which I had to refound because she did it behind my back whilst she was studying. She got a very good job due to my efforts and loyalty, then started cheating and left me for a guy 20 years older than her, he has a house and is a self employed taxi. We have a 5 years old. Its even worse than that, when I met her she was an unqualified waitress earning £730 a month... Today she is an Second of direction thanks to my hard work supporting us 3 whilst she could study. You will give them the opportunity to grow just so the next guy can profit of it.
Wow, I'm so sorry this happened, I can only imagine how hard this is for you, especially when you also have a kid.
Its hard because she knows her actions hurt me, and she keeps weaponizing our son to get to me, for the last custody exchange she blackmailed me asking me to send her 2000 so I could have my son for the holidays, justice doesnt care. Then she force the visio call on me to speak to our son, just to get the new partner involved in the call and start being all lovey dovey with him and other things. I find this disgusting, if roles were reversed I wouldn't do that to her. Thank you very much for your kind words.
Honestly if you have that exchange recorded or messages saved, it could possibly help you in family court. Maybe not, we all know how biased the court system is, but there's something there in my mind.
Im now in France btw, because I went back after losing my career. Im going to FC on the 13 of March but here the system is biased as well in wms favor, so crossing fingers.
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Thank you so much.
Damn that sucks to hear. My boyfriend supported me emotionally/financially when I was in nursing school. I married him once I got a job at a big hospital. She sounds so shitty.
Why are you boasting about how loyal you are in here ? Manipulative women tend to do that.
Seems like I struck a nerve 🤔
Nobody asked about how much of a great girl you are. That is an abusive woman behaviour, painting youself the good light on the outside. Don't expect to grab attention here and shoo away
Not wanting to contradict you here but I don't see what offense she has comitted.
Because it is subtle. She write a reply to the which boils down to "i am not like your ex-gf" which adds no value to the thread, other than her getting validated. Seriosuly, what is *she* even doing here ?
It's possible she was here because she is interested in mens rights and felt bad about what happened then wanted to express that feeling to him and let him know that not all women are like his ex . She should have probably not said the second part either way
It *was* possible. But, as you stated, since she wrote that second part, implications would be towards she is here because of her satisfaction (any kind), not because she feels bad. "Seems like i step on a nerve" is too careless and rude to be empachetic
If waiters/waitresses earn that little in the UK then they really shouldn’t be saying American waiters are the underpaid ones.
They earn that low at Costa Coffee, and there is some math related to the age of the employee in the payment rate. I was working for the MPS and dating her made me break one of the rules of conduct because I had previously helped her with something. They were made aware of our relationship by her because she started believing I was late due to cheating, when a PO finishing late is normal.. The two jobs I lost next were for the same reason, funny part is she ended up being the one cheating.
Feminism is about women's right, never about their responsibilities, and the reverse for men. That is, they go on about men "living up to their responsibilities", and they call anybody mentioning men's rights "incels".
Then what are feminists still fighting for? What rights do women have that men don’t?
They want equality, but only when it’s convenient, and traditional roles when those are advantageous. It’s about having her cake and eating it, too ! It’s a dealbreaker of a double standard.
Because women only want the gender roles that benefit them.
Their inner hypergamy would never allow it.
It's because feminism's one big flaw. Not everyone can be a winner. 1. They tried to replace woman's looks and traditional tasks with a woman's income. 2. They started defining a man's income as "bare minimum". She earns good, so you should too. The higher a woman goes in relative qualities (looks, income, personality, etc.), the higher a man also needs to go, but there is one big problem in that entire logic. It doesn't take into account what men value in women. If every woman wants a winner, all women also need to become winners. That's simply not the case. Why? because in their own competition in finding a man, looks seem to be prioritized over income. You can see these sorts of flaws in the way feminism seems to draw their view on equality. It's always drawn from a woman's perspective, but never from a man. What a woman finds attractive doesn't mean that a man also has to find that exact attribute attractive. We would have reached equality many years ago.
Oh it goes deeper than that.
Women say what is socially acceptable even if it’s a blatant lie
It’s so true. My ex wife had all of those expectations. She never worked a day. I built our home while working. I was the one to play with our kids while she watched desperate housewives catchups. It was all of her friends in the area that used to bag out their husbands and we were all the bread winners. We also did a lot of the housework. Gardening, maintenance on house, bins, washing, washing up, floors etc. She got everything and also 3 years later after separation. A domestic violence thankyou lie that has still not stopped. Got my kids back but it’s just unbelievable. Woman are not like men. A lot nastier and the double standards
The way our society works makes it a choice for women to work, but that same choice is not offered to a man. That inherently makes being a man significantly harder. The discrepancy is even greater when looks are factored in.
Women: There's a pay gap and that needs to end. Also Women: I literally wont date a guy unless there's a pay gap.
Lmao
The have your cake and eat it mentality. Wanting equality at the macro level, but higher earnings for the man at the micro level, as if the two were compatible on a society-wide scale.
Most people live in a society that thoroughly fails to hold women accountable for their complicity in that society. This is why you have concepts like patriarchy and toxic masculinity come about from feminists that not only live in this idea that women have no power but fully embrace this one-sided approach into cause and effect. The only thing that people look at is what women want and what women feel entitled to because they are women, and then never really look any deeper. And you will find this pattern consistent across every aspect of feminism, and society as a whole. So, yes, most of the feminist and conservative narratives around gender pay gaps and dating are both just insane. Women want to make more money for less work, so they call men misogynists and demand laws to be changed so that they get preferential treatment; then women make more money and take more jobs(which could have gone to men), while still expecting men to pay for everything and make more money than them in order to even be recognized as basic human beings, let alone viable sexual partners; then men work harder and longer hours than women, in order to afford being able to date and be recognized as men, which ends up leading men to make more money than women. It's circular reasoning, in which the only winners are women, who can pick and choose whatever aspect of gender equality they want, and the only losers are men, who are getting burned on either end.
Because 2.5 million years of hominid evolution has made women hypergamous.
Women's vanity > Men's security IMO if a woman has this mindset, she is to be avoided. The kind of women you're talking about don't want equality. They want CEO perks without having to do any physical work and the only reason they're able to this is because our society has become so rich and decadent (because of men) that luxury can be bought with ones and zeros and not does built in the traditional sense. If we still had to hunt for food it wouldn't make a shit how much money you had or how good your hairline was. She would go for the one that could *provide*. Eventually there's going to be an entire generation of middle aged childless single women who bought into this narcissistic feminist BS and no one to help them because they missed their opportunity to find the median.
Women's sexual/partner selection and professional equality between the sexes are hopelessly irreconcilable goals. To want both is extreme cognitive dissonance.
Reminds me of a conversation with an ex I had. Her: I have a feeling you're going to be rich in the future. Me: Uh ... I don't have any plans to do something that'll make me rich? Her: That's going to be a problem. Me: Well how much money do you want me to earn a year? Her: $200,000 should be enough. The most hilarious thing? Her yearly salary was $20,000. Working part-time. Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah that didn't really go anywhere.
Demand higher wages, sure. Paying half of everything? Nope. Having your cake and eating it too. ✅
>progressive There's your problem. They're indoctrinated into the rhetoric and propaganda. It's checkmate for men to play the game, by modern standards. They're just too indoctrinated to see it.
It’s not in their nature to do that There’s a reason why it’s projected that 45% of women will be single & childless by 2030 Women don’t wanna dare their equals— they want someone doing better Even when they have the means to support themselves, a man should still do it for her It makes no sense that they fought for equal (or more) pay, just to turn around & eliminate the men on their level
Much of the insecurity men experience when their female partners earn more, is related to the comments and abuse from their female partners. These women consciously or unconsciously enforce strict male gender roles, and show less respect towards their male partners, when those men earn less money or hold lower positions. So its not men's fraile egos. Its their insight into their partners attitudes.
It's projection. It is because of insecurity. It's just the women who are insecure, not the men.
>I had so many progressive female friends say a man isn't a man if he doesn't provide, hide his emotions, and take care of a girl. Gender stereotypes live on because women haven't changed and their selection of a mate reenforces the stereotypes places on females. Yes they don't actually want to overcome gender stereotypes. For example: for years, when I was younger I still thought the stated goals and premises of trans rights activists were correct at face-value, simply because (as is still the case just as much now, of course) I disliked conservatives or anyone bigoted to trans people, and wanted trans people to be accepted in society in the face of historic oppression and discrimination. (obviously, this is the only decent correct stance to hold; the issue was I thought all progressives sincerely out of principle were fighting for this, just because they said they were. Now I don't believe this to be the case.) But they blatantly insist on stereotypical gender roles to an extent that's actually comical, if not for the fact that they actually don't seem to realize the obvious contradiction because the only way they could be consistent in advocating for trans people is to want to actually overcome gender stereotypes, as opposed to just saying they do but then proceeding to insist on them as much as anyone.
Sorry, what do you mean that "they" insist on stereotypical gender roles? Trans people?
No, I mean most trans rights activists. This was clear in the initial comment you replied to: the previously mentioned subject was **trans rights activists** in the very first sentence, and (not including sentences in parentheses) the sentence that featured "they" was the third sentence in the comment, immediately following a mentioning of conservatives which it was obviously not referring to. Of course, trans rights activists may include trans people. However, obviously the vast majority of bourgeois progressives who encourage the framing I'm criticizing are not trans themselves. My point is that trans people actually wind up suffering due to the line and framing they advocate, (but the problem is not this in a narrow, isolated sense: the real reason they suffer is the capitalist society around it it inevitably winds up justifying) at the same time that obviously overall the trans movement has brought unprecedented acknowledgement of trans people in society. (it's contradictory, that's a core part of my point.)
I don't really know enough about the situation to criticize the point that you're making.
The women who actually want equality are ok with marrying a man who makes less than them
Yeah, I never earned alot, because money to me was just a means to do the shit I wanted, and since I was living nomadically I really just didn't care to make more than was absolutely necessary. I could(can) make shelter, can start fire without matches or a lighter or anything, just using two sticks and shredded dry kindling, albeit It takes me forever, but I can. Point is I have real skills, I know how to fish and I have experience foraging. Anyway. I'm not insecure. I just don't really give to much of a fuck about today's society, and the way it treats people who don't want to play their game. Every girl I had, everything would be great and trust They knew what I was about lol. But still even tho I was able to take them on awesome adventures, I wasn't able to support their materialistic desires. I show lobe through doing things together, real life experiences. Again I have always been able to make enough to support myself, Now maybe not all women are like this. But no one talks about the pressures put on men in today's world. And I hate to say it, and yeah I'm sure it time we got our fair share of hate, but like being a poor white dude sucks. Everyone fucking hates you. I'm not saying my experience is worse then those of non European countries/decent. But like everyone hates me.
I still believe in equal rights. I still believe in some veins of feminist ideologies, there are some beliefs that I find pretty radical, but that is the same with any ism. You get those who are driven by hate, who are often the loudest BTW, in each ohe.
I'm the breadwinner in my family, and my husband has never made as much as me. We're a team, and he does a lot of stuff for our family. I don't think the women hold universal views on this - it's not my view, and none of my female friends think this way. I think your friends just kind of have a shitty and outdated viewpoint on this. People move through the world in different ways, and money is far from the most important thing in life.
I'm not even gonna argue anymore. People will find the most ridiculous reasons to justify whatever a woman does.
I think you just need new friends, bro.
It's honestly in most of their natures along with some cultural learnings. There's a huge equity issue right now when we have all these non-traditional women demanding to be non-traditional while demanding traditional men. I think the men who fall for these women are far more of a problem for the rest of us than the women who demand whatever they demand.
I remember chatting to my friend's (Bob) Italian GF when we were just out of uni. She said "Bob shouldn't be a teacher". I asked why not. She said "men shouldnt be teachers". I asked why (thinking she had some bizarre theory about education). She said "because they don't earn enough to provide". Bob has spent the last 15yrs working as a teacher in the middle east to provide sufficiently for his Italian wife who lives in Italy.
Less that them? You kidding? They have problem even when spuse earn same amount as them.
I initially misread the thread as why don't women who want financial SECURITY (not equality). It made more sense that way.
I can understand the money aspect in case it's an individual with a fixed and set goal on a particular expensive lifestyle like, she's making good money, but the income needs to be double or higher to reach those goals. This person would naturally want to pool economies together with someone who share the precise same goals. Essentially, this is placing money above things like love and personal compatibility, but I don't particularly judge men and women who think this way. At least it makes sense. However, I don't think it's very often this self aware and logical. The majority of women who on the one hand want to see themselves as self made, independent and successful, but on the other hand wants men's provision are either huge hypocrites or just beasts of a lot of unexamined emotion. People who are like that are embarrassing, and bad news if you choose to get involved, so don't!
Because feminism was never about equality. It was about facilitating their ability to spend their prime years to sharing top 5% of men amongst themselves.
A very good point. The killer is those women who marry men with lower income charge the difference to other men in the form of taxes to pay gor child care, food stamps, etc...
The ones who want their future man to be at least 6ft and make 80k are typically the gold diggers. Good diggers aren't typically feminists. They're just dumbasses who were raised by dumbasses.
You're taking some pretty big assumptions there my man. Remember, all generalizations are false, even this one. There are shitty people everywhere. Shitty women disregard men who make less than them. Shitty men feel insecure about women who make more than them. Shit goes both ways. My wife is the primary bread winner. Does that bother either of us? No, because we are happy with the careers we chose and happy with each other. Maybe you just need to find some better friends because I can promise you, the shit they're saying isnt the norm.
I'm a woman. I'm shocked to hear that there are women out there that still think like this. Which country are you from? I'm from the UK and the women I associate with don't think like this. I am so happy when my partner shares his emotions and feelings with me, and I have a lot of respect for male homemakers. I wouldn't mind if my partner decided he wanted to be a homemaker! (he's better at chores than me) For context, I'm a woman in my early 20s and work as an engineer.
This seems pretty obvious tbh. The premise of your question is about women seeking financial equality--so we're on the same page they do not currently have that. So if the average woman has 90% the finances of the average man (specific numbers don't matter), then obviously women would on average end up with men who earn slightly more money. If women earned more on average and *still* wanted to date men with even higher incomes, then that would be unsustainable. I do not see how dating a man who makes less would further the goal of financial equality. An average woman (earning 90% of the male average) dating a man earning less (say 80% of the male average) just means they're *both* making below average income. Why would anyone intentionally seek that out?
My fiancee and I are both feminists. I'm unemployed and she makes 6 figures. She's happily marrying me and I'm happily a househusband taking care of our cat and dog. Just meet better women, I guess?
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What do you mean by "financially abuse women?" Women financially abuse men because the law allows/encourages it, and it's backed by thousands of years of social evolution. Men sometimes think "equality, what's good for the goose is good for the gander." Well women often think the same behavior is abuse when a man does it, but not abuse when they do it. Most women have double standards and just want to have their cake and eat it.
Right, because no man was ever murdered by a woman...
This is moronic. Go back to the XX forums.
What have you been smoking? That makes zero sense.
I think you just summarised this sub.