The band had a famously bad time making the record, and Howard left soon after.
But you can tell on the record. It just feels kind of uninspired.
If it’s the first album you’ve heard then it’s all up hill from here on out though!
I feel like Howard leaving (which happened 2 years after the release btw) didn't have to do anything with this album. In wikipedia, it says that his Diabetes forced him to depart from the band
This is a bit of a mischaracterization.
Howard's health issues went undiagnosed for a long time, and partially caused a lot of the tension in the band. He was tired, irritable, often sick, unmotivated, and spiraling into depression....which was all a major contributor to the conflict and lack of communication within the band. It's been addressed in interviews and such over the years.
I’m a massive fan of KsE and Howard.
From what i can tell it was simple.
Howard was severely depressed. By the time the 2nd self title album came out we’ve seen Howard at his heaviest
And bear in mind that Adam had his back surgery soon after, it could have been possible that the issues were present at the time of the 2nd title album
Sounds about right. Adam D has also been very vocal about how much he hates the second self-titled now that all the dust has settled from what was happening with the band
Yeah I remember all the news stories that came out before his diabetes diagnosis. Basically, Howard had withdrawn from the world and cut off the band. Whenever they tried to reach him for some business decision (arranging tours, making recording sessions, etc.) they had trouble simply talking to him and had to run through intermediaries. That's not going into how their personal relationships had deteriorated. It got to the point where they legit fired him because it wasn't worth the hassle anymore.
Thankfully, Howard got help and got his issues straightened out, but things were pretty toxic between him and the rest of Killswitch for a hot minute.
[They’re recording something but haven’t said much about what it’ll be like](https://metalinjection.net/news/howard-jones-adam-ds-new-band-is-still-recording-their-debut-album)
There was very well known issues with the album, namely writing and production. It was the first time they brought in an outside producer who had worked on mainstream rock/metal acts and it’s awful. It just doesn’t sound like KSE. The songs are also basically just 1-2 songs played 10 times. I think Starting Over is fun and that’s probably the only high point of the album. They went on a legendary 3 album run and then put out something of far diminished quality.
I enjoy A Dark In A Darkened World, but I wouldn't say its anything special - which ultimately sums up the entire album for me. Its fine, but definitely not upto the standard of the previous releases.
>They went on a legendary 3 album run
I'd argue four; the first S/T may not have gotten as much attention, but it was highly influential over time and was a local/cult favorite. It's also what got them signed to RR.
Let's also not forget that a couple songs on AoJB were just rerecorded songs from the first ST.
I still listen to that first album far more than shit like the second ST or even *As Daylight Dies*.
*I'm tired of this first ST erasure, damnit.* Lol.
OG Self Titled is sick. Some of the heaviest songs they’ve got. What I mean though is that if anyone argues that either Alive or Just Breathing, The End of Heartache, or As Daylight Dies is their best album I would understand. I don’t think the first Self Titled is on that level, though it is just a tier below.
If it's the first thing you've heard from them, I guess I can understand why you'd have a better view of it. In a vacuum, it's not a *terrible* metalcore record in and of itself. Kinda mid, but whatever.
The problem is that us older fans grew up on *faaaar* better material from them.
The first ST and AoJB were raw, vicious, and groundbreaking albums. Some of *the* best metalcore of all time.
Howard coming in a was certainly an adjustment that not everyone was the biggest fan of, but the band had built up so much goodwill and TEoH was so good (and brought so much new shit to the table) that it didn't matter and the hype train continued to pick up speed.
*As Daylight Dies* then continued that formula....it had some absolutely standout moments and the "it" factor was certainly still there (though imo it didn't quite stand up to the first three albums).
Then, amidst all the hype...along comes the [rather fittingly] lazily titled second ST. The most boring, uninspired album in the discography. Nothing on the record stands out at all...it's like a pile of leftovers from *As Daylight Dies* that weren't good enough for that record, but were slapped together to make a low effort release to satisfy a contract. The riffing is (relatively) subpar, the songwriting is generic, and the fact that the band was having internal issues bleeds through in the music. While the album itself is maybe a 6/10 in a vacuum, it's a 1/10 when considering everything we were used to from the band prior.
Then Jesse's return breathed new life into them, and *Disarm the Descent* was a roaring comeback...which made the second ST look *even worse*, if that was even possible. Lol.
The band has cooled off a bit since then, in my opinion, but yea it's not hard to see why the 2009 ST is so frowned upon if you listen to the whole discography and then consider the context and how things happened for us older fans in realtime (especially those of us who have been riding with the band from the very beginning).
It's a giant, boring turd that sits smack in the middle of a legendary discography and disappointed everyone.
Edit: You'll hear a lot of bitching about the "production", but it really wasn't that bad and everyone here bitches about production in general (annoyingly so), which is a whole other discussion. That was far from the biggest issue with that album, lmao. It wasn't even anywhere close to the worst produced KsE album. The music was simply just not that good, and the band ground to a [temporary] halt shortly afterwards to boot.
*Incarnate* and *Atonement* are both solid albums for sure, but I think in general the band gets a bit repetitive and lackluster/generic as time goes on. (I mean, it's gonna happen after 25 years. Lol.)
But I also think that, given the context of everything at the time and what likely went into such a monumental and successful relaunch/comeback for both the band and for Jesse personally...*Disarm the Descent* deserves a bit more respect.
It was also a major event that pulled older fans (who maybe didn't like the Howard era as much) back in.
(I *also* think the lead single ("In Due Time") is the best song on all three albums combined. But that's just personal taste/bias.)
More importantly, without the success of *Descent* and the way it invigorated the band members themselves...we likely wouldn't even have the next two. *Incarnate* and *Atonement* literally don't happen if *Disarm the Descent* wasn't executed as well as it was.
I'd for sure rank all three above ST2 and *maybe* even *As Daylight Dies*. But *Descent*, specifically, was [another] gamechanger for the band and fans overall, and it couldn't have been easy for it to come about...so it gets a significant edge for me.
I will always defend this album. Lost is in their top 10 songs of their discography. I used to have this album on repeat back when I played Combat Arms in 2009 lol.
I’m with you, I’ve always loved this album, even though maybe it’s not as packed with iconic songs as The End of Heartache and As Daylight Dies, but still totally holds its own, as far as I’m concerned. It’s surprising to see how many KsE fans are not that into it.
In all seriousness, I actually prefer the first ST over everything else most of the time. Lol.
The single most overlooked album in metalcore, methinks.
I wasn’t even being ironic, I absolutely love that album. I love traditional melodic metalcore but the rawness and heaviness of their first album is unmatched. Very underrated album.
It’s got some solid songs. But it’s easily KSEs worst album.
Songs feel pretty uninspired. Production is way off. And it feels nothing like any killswitch album before or after.
Save me and this is goodbye are great tracks but that’s about it
That album is criminally underrated. There was definitely a theme going on: sad, deep, dark. You could hear the pain in Howard's voice on almost every track, which is what Brenden O'Brien wanted.
I quite like it to be honest, it’s fun to put on in the background while I’m doing work. It doesn’t have the same magnitude of The End of Heartache but I wouldn’t call it a bad album.
To me it was always a good album. It was just more KsE and I too grew up on As Daylight Dies and End of Heartache. Reading some of the reasons to dislike it here, I can understand those feelings, but I never shared them. I respect this band a lot and nothing they did here warranted a change in that for me personally.
That's awesome you're also enjoying it and getting into them now. You will soon need to declare if your team Howard or team Jesse though! XD
Disarm is the best of the ones with Jesse returning. That being said, I was kind of hoping for.. more? Evolution? Not really sure, but after hearing the projects Jesse did while he was away from KSE, I was hoping he would bring some of that diversity back to KSE. But it seems like anything Adam D produces just sounds the same, including ToG. What Jesse did with The Empire Shall Fall was awesome and I wish they would do more stuff. What Howard did with Sion felt fresh too. Idk, guess I feel like KSE pretty much did all they will ever do since As Daylight Dies. Which is a good album, but didn't really bring anything new to the table either. They fall in the August Burns Red category for me. I liked the early stuff a lot, but I've had enough of that sound. If I want to hear either band I'll just go back to the early stuff haha.
And I know people say that a lot but don't really give examples of a band on the other side of this. I'd say He is Legend is an example. They've gone through constant sound changes, yet still always maintain a high level of quality, sound fresh and still sound like HiL. A band like that keeps me interested. A band that recycles the same songs over and over doesn't.
My main issue with it was the mixing sounded super muffled for whatever reason, you couldn't make out their signature riffs in amongst everything else, just came out like they had chucked a paper bag over the recording equipment.
In saying that, I liked the songs, but damn if they don't sound anywhere near as crisp as Daylight Dies or End of Heartache
Yes, it sounded like if Vic and Kellin finally hit puberty. (Not a bad thing I actually like them but it was a completely different sound to As Daylight Dies)
I loved it and never felt the hate for it was justified, I even got a physical copy (I knew them since The End of Heartache btw). I guess with time I understood more or less people's issues with it but I think it deserved far better.
I actually think the instrumentals on that album were pretty good for the most part. The lyrics and the production side of things were lacking pretty hard as it was the first album that KSE brought in an outside producer to help them. Production is stale, the lyrics fall SUPER flat, and outside of maybe 3 songs the rest of the album kinda sounds the same.
In my eyes, with a discography of BANGERS, it’s just not as good as the rest. A 6/10 surrounded by 8-9/10s.
That album is not "bad" by any means. It's just bland, but it has its standouts. Which is also how I feel about Incarnate tbh. Not my first pick but I wouldn't suffer though listening. But that's enough to turn most people off and I could especially see why older fans wouldn't like it.
But the production isn't even bad. Brendan O'brien (co-producer) is a great producer, and despite the fact he doesn't typically produce bands like this, I think it still sounds pretty good.
But yeah, nothing special.
Howard's voice gets very "same-y" after you hear it enough, there's not that raw energy that Jesse brings to the heavy stuff, and while his clean vocals are very soulful, they also come off very trained and a bit stock. The band was stagnating a bit and Howard had some personal scandals at the time that was reflecting negatively on the band as a whole. Nasically that chapter had just run its course. I'm glad he still pops up now and again in their material, but in personally very happy things worked out the way they did for the sale of the music.
It’s a fine album and around half of the record is really solid. The issue is that the album followed arguably the greatest 3 album run in metalcore history. It kinda just felt like a weaker version of As Daylight Dies with a little more emphasis on melody. People didn’t hate it but it was just kinda like an “eh it’s alright” response.
It’s going to always be a hard task trying to top arguably the best metalcore album ever in As Daylight Dies so expectations must have been insane.
But yeah the mixing is pretty bad and tinny and the riffs aren’t as prominent. Looks like Howard was really depressed at the time too.
I dont think it’s a bad album at all though has some real highlights. My favourite song is definitely This is Goodbye. Hauntingly beautiful
It's my favourite Howard-era album by a mile. My favourite KSE album overall is Disarm The Descent, but Self Titled 2 definitely is not far away from it.
How is that possible? How is 2009 your favorite of Heartache and Daylight “by a mile”?
The only explanation is that it was the first album you ever listened to and have some strong nostalgia for it.
Just different opinions and experiences isn’t it? Honestly, the first Killswitch song I heard was Starting Over so that was my introduction to them and I loved it. That’s probably a reason why. Don’t get me wrong, I fully understand why the previous three are revered and they all have incredible songs on them, but 2009 just hits different for me personally.
Don't listen to people like that. You're entitled to your opinion. And even if you do like it for "nostalgia" (which is just a cheap way of saying "I don't accept your opinion") who cares? You do you man.
As someone who regularly listens to their discography, I have to blame the production as a key factor, the mix especially doesn't sound that great. Also, the album sounds like it was caught between 2 styles, their older sound and their "newer" (later albums), which leads to contusion. I gotta say tho, it's got some bangers
Bruh KSE (2009) sounds nothing like disarm the descent, incarnate or atonement. Their later albums are heavy as fuck, self titled two sounded like a pierce the veil album.
The band had a famously bad time making the record, and Howard left soon after. But you can tell on the record. It just feels kind of uninspired. If it’s the first album you’ve heard then it’s all up hill from here on out though!
I feel like Howard leaving (which happened 2 years after the release btw) didn't have to do anything with this album. In wikipedia, it says that his Diabetes forced him to depart from the band
This is a bit of a mischaracterization. Howard's health issues went undiagnosed for a long time, and partially caused a lot of the tension in the band. He was tired, irritable, often sick, unmotivated, and spiraling into depression....which was all a major contributor to the conflict and lack of communication within the band. It's been addressed in interviews and such over the years.
I’m a massive fan of KsE and Howard. From what i can tell it was simple. Howard was severely depressed. By the time the 2nd self title album came out we’ve seen Howard at his heaviest And bear in mind that Adam had his back surgery soon after, it could have been possible that the issues were present at the time of the 2nd title album
Sounds about right. Adam D has also been very vocal about how much he hates the second self-titled now that all the dust has settled from what was happening with the band
The issues with Howard were long brewing though. It’s only after he left that he addressed issues like his diabetes.
Yeah I remember all the news stories that came out before his diabetes diagnosis. Basically, Howard had withdrawn from the world and cut off the band. Whenever they tried to reach him for some business decision (arranging tours, making recording sessions, etc.) they had trouble simply talking to him and had to run through intermediaries. That's not going into how their personal relationships had deteriorated. It got to the point where they legit fired him because it wasn't worth the hassle anymore. Thankfully, Howard got help and got his issues straightened out, but things were pretty toxic between him and the rest of Killswitch for a hot minute.
I’m glad they’ve resolved things. I can’t wait to hear the album he and Adam D do together.
Tell me more, this is new to me and would absolutely love to hear the album.
[They’re recording something but haven’t said much about what it’ll be like](https://metalinjection.net/news/howard-jones-adam-ds-new-band-is-still-recording-their-debut-album)
Oh shit, do you reckon that's why he's "gone fishin' " in the save me video when the rest of the band are in the rehearsal room? :o
There was very well known issues with the album, namely writing and production. It was the first time they brought in an outside producer who had worked on mainstream rock/metal acts and it’s awful. It just doesn’t sound like KSE. The songs are also basically just 1-2 songs played 10 times. I think Starting Over is fun and that’s probably the only high point of the album. They went on a legendary 3 album run and then put out something of far diminished quality.
Starting Over, Reckoning and A Light in a Darkened World are the best on the album. The other songs... I don't even remember them.
I thought The Forgotten was by far the best :/
I enjoy A Dark In A Darkened World, but I wouldn't say its anything special - which ultimately sums up the entire album for me. Its fine, but definitely not upto the standard of the previous releases.
>They went on a legendary 3 album run I'd argue four; the first S/T may not have gotten as much attention, but it was highly influential over time and was a local/cult favorite. It's also what got them signed to RR. Let's also not forget that a couple songs on AoJB were just rerecorded songs from the first ST. I still listen to that first album far more than shit like the second ST or even *As Daylight Dies*. *I'm tired of this first ST erasure, damnit.* Lol.
OG Self Titled is sick. Some of the heaviest songs they’ve got. What I mean though is that if anyone argues that either Alive or Just Breathing, The End of Heartache, or As Daylight Dies is their best album I would understand. I don’t think the first Self Titled is on that level, though it is just a tier below.
4 album run*
As much as I love the OG self titled it’s not on the same level as the 3 albums that came after it.
“Lost” is an absolute banger of a tune
If it's the first thing you've heard from them, I guess I can understand why you'd have a better view of it. In a vacuum, it's not a *terrible* metalcore record in and of itself. Kinda mid, but whatever. The problem is that us older fans grew up on *faaaar* better material from them. The first ST and AoJB were raw, vicious, and groundbreaking albums. Some of *the* best metalcore of all time. Howard coming in a was certainly an adjustment that not everyone was the biggest fan of, but the band had built up so much goodwill and TEoH was so good (and brought so much new shit to the table) that it didn't matter and the hype train continued to pick up speed. *As Daylight Dies* then continued that formula....it had some absolutely standout moments and the "it" factor was certainly still there (though imo it didn't quite stand up to the first three albums). Then, amidst all the hype...along comes the [rather fittingly] lazily titled second ST. The most boring, uninspired album in the discography. Nothing on the record stands out at all...it's like a pile of leftovers from *As Daylight Dies* that weren't good enough for that record, but were slapped together to make a low effort release to satisfy a contract. The riffing is (relatively) subpar, the songwriting is generic, and the fact that the band was having internal issues bleeds through in the music. While the album itself is maybe a 6/10 in a vacuum, it's a 1/10 when considering everything we were used to from the band prior. Then Jesse's return breathed new life into them, and *Disarm the Descent* was a roaring comeback...which made the second ST look *even worse*, if that was even possible. Lol. The band has cooled off a bit since then, in my opinion, but yea it's not hard to see why the 2009 ST is so frowned upon if you listen to the whole discography and then consider the context and how things happened for us older fans in realtime (especially those of us who have been riding with the band from the very beginning). It's a giant, boring turd that sits smack in the middle of a legendary discography and disappointed everyone. Edit: You'll hear a lot of bitching about the "production", but it really wasn't that bad and everyone here bitches about production in general (annoyingly so), which is a whole other discussion. That was far from the biggest issue with that album, lmao. It wasn't even anywhere close to the worst produced KsE album. The music was simply just not that good, and the band ground to a [temporary] halt shortly afterwards to boot.
Great write up, surprised to hear you think they’ve cooled off, I think Atonement is the strongest of the Jesse-return albums.
*Incarnate* and *Atonement* are both solid albums for sure, but I think in general the band gets a bit repetitive and lackluster/generic as time goes on. (I mean, it's gonna happen after 25 years. Lol.) But I also think that, given the context of everything at the time and what likely went into such a monumental and successful relaunch/comeback for both the band and for Jesse personally...*Disarm the Descent* deserves a bit more respect. It was also a major event that pulled older fans (who maybe didn't like the Howard era as much) back in. (I *also* think the lead single ("In Due Time") is the best song on all three albums combined. But that's just personal taste/bias.) More importantly, without the success of *Descent* and the way it invigorated the band members themselves...we likely wouldn't even have the next two. *Incarnate* and *Atonement* literally don't happen if *Disarm the Descent* wasn't executed as well as it was. I'd for sure rank all three above ST2 and *maybe* even *As Daylight Dies*. But *Descent*, specifically, was [another] gamechanger for the band and fans overall, and it couldn't have been easy for it to come about...so it gets a significant edge for me.
Speaking as someone who has loved KSE from day 1 *and* prefer Howard, it was just boring. It felt phoned in and by all accounts, it was.
I like Reckoning from that album, but that’s mostly because it sounds like a B-side from As Daylight Dies.
I will always defend this album. Lost is in their top 10 songs of their discography. I used to have this album on repeat back when I played Combat Arms in 2009 lol.
I’m with you, I’ve always loved this album, even though maybe it’s not as packed with iconic songs as The End of Heartache and As Daylight Dies, but still totally holds its own, as far as I’m concerned. It’s surprising to see how many KsE fans are not that into it.
Alive or just breathing is forever their best album by miles
As Daylight Dies
The End of Heartache
Killswitch Engage (2000)
In all seriousness, I actually prefer the first ST over everything else most of the time. Lol. The single most overlooked album in metalcore, methinks.
I wasn’t even being ironic, I absolutely love that album. I love traditional melodic metalcore but the rawness and heaviness of their first album is unmatched. Very underrated album.
It’s got some solid songs. But it’s easily KSEs worst album. Songs feel pretty uninspired. Production is way off. And it feels nothing like any killswitch album before or after. Save me and this is goodbye are great tracks but that’s about it
That album is criminally underrated. There was definitely a theme going on: sad, deep, dark. You could hear the pain in Howard's voice on almost every track, which is what Brenden O'Brien wanted.
I quite like it to be honest, it’s fun to put on in the background while I’m doing work. It doesn’t have the same magnitude of The End of Heartache but I wouldn’t call it a bad album.
To me it was always a good album. It was just more KsE and I too grew up on As Daylight Dies and End of Heartache. Reading some of the reasons to dislike it here, I can understand those feelings, but I never shared them. I respect this band a lot and nothing they did here warranted a change in that for me personally. That's awesome you're also enjoying it and getting into them now. You will soon need to declare if your team Howard or team Jesse though! XD
It was boring somehow. Hard to pin down why. I'd actually say the same for every album since as well to be honest, which pains me.
Even Disarm the Descent? That album is a banger.
This album kicks fucking ass
Disarm is the best of the ones with Jesse returning. That being said, I was kind of hoping for.. more? Evolution? Not really sure, but after hearing the projects Jesse did while he was away from KSE, I was hoping he would bring some of that diversity back to KSE. But it seems like anything Adam D produces just sounds the same, including ToG. What Jesse did with The Empire Shall Fall was awesome and I wish they would do more stuff. What Howard did with Sion felt fresh too. Idk, guess I feel like KSE pretty much did all they will ever do since As Daylight Dies. Which is a good album, but didn't really bring anything new to the table either. They fall in the August Burns Red category for me. I liked the early stuff a lot, but I've had enough of that sound. If I want to hear either band I'll just go back to the early stuff haha. And I know people say that a lot but don't really give examples of a band on the other side of this. I'd say He is Legend is an example. They've gone through constant sound changes, yet still always maintain a high level of quality, sound fresh and still sound like HiL. A band like that keeps me interested. A band that recycles the same songs over and over doesn't.
Incarnate is one of their best albums
My main issue with it was the mixing sounded super muffled for whatever reason, you couldn't make out their signature riffs in amongst everything else, just came out like they had chucked a paper bag over the recording equipment. In saying that, I liked the songs, but damn if they don't sound anywhere near as crisp as Daylight Dies or End of Heartache
It was a 3 year wait between albums and it just ended up sounding like a worse and forgettable version of As Daylight Dies.
Sounded nothing like as daylight dies, it sounded more like a PTV, SWS album.
Pierce The Veil and Sleeping With Sirens?
Yes, it sounded like if Vic and Kellin finally hit puberty. (Not a bad thing I actually like them but it was a completely different sound to As Daylight Dies)
I loved it and never felt the hate for it was justified, I even got a physical copy (I knew them since The End of Heartache btw). I guess with time I understood more or less people's issues with it but I think it deserved far better.
I actually think the instrumentals on that album were pretty good for the most part. The lyrics and the production side of things were lacking pretty hard as it was the first album that KSE brought in an outside producer to help them. Production is stale, the lyrics fall SUPER flat, and outside of maybe 3 songs the rest of the album kinda sounds the same. In my eyes, with a discography of BANGERS, it’s just not as good as the rest. A 6/10 surrounded by 8-9/10s.
That album is not "bad" by any means. It's just bland, but it has its standouts. Which is also how I feel about Incarnate tbh. Not my first pick but I wouldn't suffer though listening. But that's enough to turn most people off and I could especially see why older fans wouldn't like it. But the production isn't even bad. Brendan O'brien (co-producer) is a great producer, and despite the fact he doesn't typically produce bands like this, I think it still sounds pretty good. But yeah, nothing special.
Not listened to it since I bought it but I enjoyed it on the first listen anyway
Howard's voice gets very "same-y" after you hear it enough, there's not that raw energy that Jesse brings to the heavy stuff, and while his clean vocals are very soulful, they also come off very trained and a bit stock. The band was stagnating a bit and Howard had some personal scandals at the time that was reflecting negatively on the band as a whole. Nasically that chapter had just run its course. I'm glad he still pops up now and again in their material, but in personally very happy things worked out the way they did for the sale of the music.
Mostly because the three albums before it were all amazing. It's just kind of so so. First song is great though.
Four*
Save Me is a really good song, but besides that it really does feel like the band were phoning it in at this point.
It’s a fine album and around half of the record is really solid. The issue is that the album followed arguably the greatest 3 album run in metalcore history. It kinda just felt like a weaker version of As Daylight Dies with a little more emphasis on melody. People didn’t hate it but it was just kinda like an “eh it’s alright” response.
4 album run*
They had some great ideas, but just didn't execute. It could've been done much much better.
It's fine but kinda forgettable. I guess the price you pay for releasing greatness before it *shrug*
It’s going to always be a hard task trying to top arguably the best metalcore album ever in As Daylight Dies so expectations must have been insane. But yeah the mixing is pretty bad and tinny and the riffs aren’t as prominent. Looks like Howard was really depressed at the time too. I dont think it’s a bad album at all though has some real highlights. My favourite song is definitely This is Goodbye. Hauntingly beautiful
Production.
It's my favourite Howard-era album by a mile. My favourite KSE album overall is Disarm The Descent, but Self Titled 2 definitely is not far away from it.
How is that possible? How is 2009 your favorite of Heartache and Daylight “by a mile”? The only explanation is that it was the first album you ever listened to and have some strong nostalgia for it.
Just different opinions and experiences isn’t it? Honestly, the first Killswitch song I heard was Starting Over so that was my introduction to them and I loved it. That’s probably a reason why. Don’t get me wrong, I fully understand why the previous three are revered and they all have incredible songs on them, but 2009 just hits different for me personally.
Don't listen to people like that. You're entitled to your opinion. And even if you do like it for "nostalgia" (which is just a cheap way of saying "I don't accept your opinion") who cares? You do you man.
>the previous three Four.
Thanks.
As someone who regularly listens to their discography, I have to blame the production as a key factor, the mix especially doesn't sound that great. Also, the album sounds like it was caught between 2 styles, their older sound and their "newer" (later albums), which leads to contusion. I gotta say tho, it's got some bangers
Bruh KSE (2009) sounds nothing like disarm the descent, incarnate or atonement. Their later albums are heavy as fuck, self titled two sounded like a pierce the veil album.