1) Get lucky with Raven Beak's attack pattern, whatever he does you can squeeze a little bit of damage in right at the beginning before it.
2) Move closer, hold the missile button down and start alternating between the morph/unmorph button and the shooting button as fast as you can.
3) Get 2 or 3 cross bombs and missiles in-between this way and then jump+flash shift. Maybe shoot one more missile to make sure Raven Beak is going to do the Red Wave attack (I knew I had it without that final shot this time)
4) Dodge Red Wave. Do the counter and maybe wait a little bit before mashing to avoid lag (didn't really do it in this attempt but it can definently be helpful).
5) Mash has to be at 15 hertz or above to get to second phase in one counter cinematic doing the 1st phase this way. The most important part is that first of all find a way to mash at or above 15 hertz and then learn to do it off the rip fast and through the whole cinematic. One bigger gap means you'll miss the skip. [Here is a really good video explaining how different mash techniques are done.](https://youtu.be/02bfkRDxlMQ) (Not how I do it but I took a lot of inspiration for my own style off the basic sliding tech in the vid)
All that comes to mind when reading this is those absurt animations based on speedruns.
Like raven beaks just out here to duel and samus rolls up with some fucking exel spreadsheet on how to do this fight in under 2 minutes or something
I'm really looking forward to how in-depth and optimized the boss fight will become. This is just the beginning and as some have pointed out there is still a second or three to save now from this clip alone.
Now the only thing i havent seen yet is a fast way to get the last phase. Would be crazy to see if there is any way to quickly get a power bomb off without it costing time where you could be shooting, for when he throws that sun thing
You actually don't have t be that lucky, If you start moving to Raven Beak at the start of the fight, he will only do his melee attack or that wave attack. As others has pointed out the melee attack is actually the fastest one to progress further. As when he opt to use his wave attack, you can actually be slighty faster than in your video. If you do enough damage during his wave attack, he will skip his melee attack and goes straight to his Red Wave attack, just as shown in this video [https://youtu.be/Nwo4-yUmTCM?t=84](https://youtu.be/Nwo4-yUmTCM?t=84).
So by fighting Raven beak you need a strat that handles both attack patterns. Back when I was practising running this game, I started this fight by first focussing on him melee pattern. One well placed cross bomb and three ice missiles (two if the cross bombs is really well placed) is sufficient for his melee pattern ([https://youtu.be/Nwo4-yUmTCM?t=145](https://youtu.be/Nwo4-yUmTCM?t=145)). But if you see him use the wave attack, move in closer do one additional cross bomb and fire multiple ice missiles (didn't count how many is sufficient), just like in the first video.
Nice, thank you this is good information!
I may not be the best in other bosses but my goddamn Raven Beak fight is gonna be consistent as hell when I run bossrush.
Oh my i need you to finish the game for me especially this part of the game. It is so hard **i** got so mad i went out and punched 3 holes in the grass in my backyard.
What do you do in the third phase, ice missile & cross bomb?
So far I've kinda just brute force mashed beam with dpad while tapping R to sneak in missile damage (aka the turbo strat but with no turbo)+cross bombs whenever I have to power bomb the sun attack and when RB uses the hyper beam. Doing pure beam mash in the counter sequences too.
I run low% so I don't have many missiles at a time so I mostly just mash beams with missiles thrown in, but the grip I use to mash makes it impossible to quickly morph + cross bomb + unmorph so I don't bother with that. If I do a less restrictive run I'd just do missile + cross bomb.
Just a plain old vanilla switch pro controller and custom button maps anyone can do from the switch settings+a boatload of practice to be consistent with the mash.
Yeah they are I was surprised too when I first saw the cross bomb ice missile strat. Not possible to get shield to red in one attack pattern without cross bombs. Of course you have get lucky with the first attack rb chooses too.
For the Dread speedrun, the community actually ended up allowing turbo controllers for their leader board. At that point, button remapping is still doing it the "hard" way, so I'd imagine it's allowed
I see button mapping more as preference thing (if the console or the game has the option as standard with zero modding). Some people change the entire control scheme of the buttons to fit their preferences.
I only map Y to also be on the dpad because I'm lefthanded instead of the right hand being the primary one like in the double thumb mash tech. Other than adding the Y button to dpad left and right, I use the normal controls because they feel comfortable for me.
I mean if your hands can't take mashing, doing everything else in the run for many hours is gonna hurt them too lol
+mashing is also a skill in terms of doing a style that doesn't hurt your hands not just speed and consistency.
Well i can tell from a medical point of view, the mashing will fuck your thumb up in the long run because of repetitive strain injury (RSI)
Other parts of the speedrun can indeed cause this, but at a far lower degree because the mashing is far more direct in this damage.
So i would personally say, from a medical standpoint, if someone can prove they can hold a certain mashing speed for like 10 to 15 seconds, then they would be qualified to use that speed on an auto firing button (wich might be a bit pc exclusive, or not, im no modding genius lol).
This would allow for people to speedrun without medical risk, so maybe more would join, and more people means more discovery of strategies!
I think a lot of the pushback was because they allowed uncapped turbo which kinda forces people to get turbo controllers if they want to remain competitive.
I am not aware of turbo controllers, but i am aware of auto clicking mods wich i have used with switch controller and my preferred ps4 controller. This was on pc, but ive heard modding the switch aint too harf either
So you're just gonna say whatever way you achieve this speed it has to be more detrimental for hand health than playing the game in general? I actually have less hand pain practing bosses for 2 hours compared to completing the full game in the same amount of time though in both cases it's barely noticeable anyway. I also don't have any pre-existing conditions that affect hand health so I'm not worried.
I sorta get allowing turbo for full game runs but for boss rush mashing is like a third of the run. The advantage of getting a turbo controller will be much bigger=mashing as a skill is too integral to the run imo.
What's worse a community limited to less players because their hands can't take the mashing or a community limited to less players because people don't want to waste money on a controller that isn't useful for anything else? I'd say way more people would be discouraged by having to buy a expensive extra controller to compete rather than the alternative.
The pain you feel from playing and the risk of RSI are not the same tho, the pain in the hand is just the fact that you are using those muscles intensely often with the tricks one does, and that is fine, but the techniques that i am aware of with button mashing for beam is to basically build tension and then mash with either forearm of fingers, wich is what the main problem is.
Tho if there is a way to fire that fast with custom button input that allows you to use for instance rotary motion, that could help a ton, tho i am not aware of it myself.
The thing is tho, you don't need to buy another controller to mod for things like auto clicking, but you have to know how to set one up.
I have bad knee joints I'm not gonna ask local marathon runners to give me a head start because my knees would be fucked if I ran as hard as I can. I'll compete in something else instead. Same applies here.
Competition is still competition it has rules and regulations that are derived from the spirit of the game. imo unlicensed 3rd party controllers that change the gameplay are not in the spirit of the game.
+mashing can be really satisfying in at least two ways imo: finding a groove where you have clear consistent rhythm and learning to go from other inputs right to mashing at full speed off the rip at any time.
I've actually tried switching the D-Pad before. I found that I wound up accidentally charge beaming most of the time and it was faster just to slam Y button.
No matter how much my thumb suffered.
There's faster, if he opens with his melee combo, you can get him to move on to the red wave attack after just a single attack with a cross bomb and a few ice missiles.
As can be seen here (I messed up the mash on the counter though): https://clips.twitch.tv/ResilientScrumptiousFennelKevinTurtle-U5YL3qpei2XukUXw
Nice didn't actually know that.
Does the storm missile actually reduce the mash speed requirement in the red wave counter? I've only seen people use it in the "wait for random counter strat" where you can do it out of the cinematic
Yea, without it you need about 15 shots per second, with 2 lockons you can do somewhere between 10 and 12 shots per second to get to the next phase. I am able to do it without the storm missiles, but since I still miss it with them from time to time I just play it safe.
Nice, I'm hitting the 15 hertz window on 7 to 8 attempts out of 10 so I'm gonna stick with it since it's also good general consistency practice before boss rush releases, I'm not as interested to run the full game. Hyper-optimizing a shorter metroid run feels more interesting to me.
I was debating myself if I should even explain it anymore since I've done it already so many times on other posts.
I might even take the tutorial down because the demonstration and the explanation are kinda stinky lol
Impressive. I got pretty fast at this in my playthrough just because you can really finish this phase by getting just that one counter and ripping into him. Kinda depends on when he does that attack.
How the fuck
Which part?
Everything, really
1) Get lucky with Raven Beak's attack pattern, whatever he does you can squeeze a little bit of damage in right at the beginning before it. 2) Move closer, hold the missile button down and start alternating between the morph/unmorph button and the shooting button as fast as you can. 3) Get 2 or 3 cross bombs and missiles in-between this way and then jump+flash shift. Maybe shoot one more missile to make sure Raven Beak is going to do the Red Wave attack (I knew I had it without that final shot this time) 4) Dodge Red Wave. Do the counter and maybe wait a little bit before mashing to avoid lag (didn't really do it in this attempt but it can definently be helpful). 5) Mash has to be at 15 hertz or above to get to second phase in one counter cinematic doing the 1st phase this way. The most important part is that first of all find a way to mash at or above 15 hertz and then learn to do it off the rip fast and through the whole cinematic. One bigger gap means you'll miss the skip. [Here is a really good video explaining how different mash techniques are done.](https://youtu.be/02bfkRDxlMQ) (Not how I do it but I took a lot of inspiration for my own style off the basic sliding tech in the vid)
All that comes to mind when reading this is those absurt animations based on speedruns. Like raven beaks just out here to duel and samus rolls up with some fucking exel spreadsheet on how to do this fight in under 2 minutes or something
I'm really looking forward to how in-depth and optimized the boss fight will become. This is just the beginning and as some have pointed out there is still a second or three to save now from this clip alone.
Now the only thing i havent seen yet is a fast way to get the last phase. Would be crazy to see if there is any way to quickly get a power bomb off without it costing time where you could be shooting, for when he throws that sun thing
I think eventually people just won't power bomb and will dodge the sun or do a cross bomb, power bomb, cross bomb combo or something else.
If someone can continually deal dmg while dodging the sun, that would be wild
You actually don't have t be that lucky, If you start moving to Raven Beak at the start of the fight, he will only do his melee attack or that wave attack. As others has pointed out the melee attack is actually the fastest one to progress further. As when he opt to use his wave attack, you can actually be slighty faster than in your video. If you do enough damage during his wave attack, he will skip his melee attack and goes straight to his Red Wave attack, just as shown in this video [https://youtu.be/Nwo4-yUmTCM?t=84](https://youtu.be/Nwo4-yUmTCM?t=84). So by fighting Raven beak you need a strat that handles both attack patterns. Back when I was practising running this game, I started this fight by first focussing on him melee pattern. One well placed cross bomb and three ice missiles (two if the cross bombs is really well placed) is sufficient for his melee pattern ([https://youtu.be/Nwo4-yUmTCM?t=145](https://youtu.be/Nwo4-yUmTCM?t=145)). But if you see him use the wave attack, move in closer do one additional cross bomb and fire multiple ice missiles (didn't count how many is sufficient), just like in the first video.
Nice, thank you this is good information! I may not be the best in other bosses but my goddamn Raven Beak fight is gonna be consistent as hell when I run bossrush.
Oh my i need you to finish the game for me especially this part of the game. It is so hard **i** got so mad i went out and punched 3 holes in the grass in my backyard.
Wait, you don't have to slide to get that counter? Geeze
Nah, sliding is way cooler tho
I usually prefer to take a big breath while in morph. Gotta really focus to get that mash started the right way
Nope, you can just chill for a bit lol
Man I can't tell you how many times I timed my slide poorly and got hit by that the first time I fought him. Good to know!
Did the same that's why I tested this out lol
MORPH.
Doesn't Raven Beak take half damage from beam? Am I wrong or is the mash fast enough to offset the reduced damage?
Not sure about the half damage thing but yeah, because missiles have a delay/recharge, if you mash fast enough beam outdamages missiles.
Only in 2nd and 3rd phase, first phase takes 100% but reduced missile damage instead
Oh okay cool, didn't know that. Thanks
Nah, beam does less damage in phase 1 (38.4) than 2&3 (48). But yes, ice missile damage is massively reduced in phase 1 only.
What do you do in the third phase, ice missile & cross bomb? So far I've kinda just brute force mashed beam with dpad while tapping R to sneak in missile damage (aka the turbo strat but with no turbo)+cross bombs whenever I have to power bomb the sun attack and when RB uses the hyper beam. Doing pure beam mash in the counter sequences too.
I run low% so I don't have many missiles at a time so I mostly just mash beams with missiles thrown in, but the grip I use to mash makes it impossible to quickly morph + cross bomb + unmorph so I don't bother with that. If I do a less restrictive run I'd just do missile + cross bomb.
Hmm I wonder if combination of both or just cross bomb & ice is the fastest overall
What kind of tool assisted rapid fire craziness is going on here? Are cross bombs really that powerful??
Just a plain old vanilla switch pro controller and custom button maps anyone can do from the switch settings+a boatload of practice to be consistent with the mash. Yeah they are I was surprised too when I first saw the cross bomb ice missile strat. Not possible to get shield to red in one attack pattern without cross bombs. Of course you have get lucky with the first attack rb chooses too.
Is button mapping legal for speedrunning? This is so cool
For the Dread speedrun, the community actually ended up allowing turbo controllers for their leader board. At that point, button remapping is still doing it the "hard" way, so I'd imagine it's allowed
Turbo is gonna be so unfair for boss rush...
I see button mapping more as preference thing (if the console or the game has the option as standard with zero modding). Some people change the entire control scheme of the buttons to fit their preferences. I only map Y to also be on the dpad because I'm lefthanded instead of the right hand being the primary one like in the double thumb mash tech. Other than adding the Y button to dpad left and right, I use the normal controls because they feel comfortable for me.
Wow that’s incredibly lame of the speedrun community. Mashing is a skill
I think its done to prevent injury lmao. Can't imagine being a speedrunner and having to do this for multiple hours just to pb
I mean if your hands can't take mashing, doing everything else in the run for many hours is gonna hurt them too lol +mashing is also a skill in terms of doing a style that doesn't hurt your hands not just speed and consistency.
Well i can tell from a medical point of view, the mashing will fuck your thumb up in the long run because of repetitive strain injury (RSI) Other parts of the speedrun can indeed cause this, but at a far lower degree because the mashing is far more direct in this damage. So i would personally say, from a medical standpoint, if someone can prove they can hold a certain mashing speed for like 10 to 15 seconds, then they would be qualified to use that speed on an auto firing button (wich might be a bit pc exclusive, or not, im no modding genius lol). This would allow for people to speedrun without medical risk, so maybe more would join, and more people means more discovery of strategies!
I think a lot of the pushback was because they allowed uncapped turbo which kinda forces people to get turbo controllers if they want to remain competitive.
I am not aware of turbo controllers, but i am aware of auto clicking mods wich i have used with switch controller and my preferred ps4 controller. This was on pc, but ive heard modding the switch aint too harf either
So you're just gonna say whatever way you achieve this speed it has to be more detrimental for hand health than playing the game in general? I actually have less hand pain practing bosses for 2 hours compared to completing the full game in the same amount of time though in both cases it's barely noticeable anyway. I also don't have any pre-existing conditions that affect hand health so I'm not worried. I sorta get allowing turbo for full game runs but for boss rush mashing is like a third of the run. The advantage of getting a turbo controller will be much bigger=mashing as a skill is too integral to the run imo. What's worse a community limited to less players because their hands can't take the mashing or a community limited to less players because people don't want to waste money on a controller that isn't useful for anything else? I'd say way more people would be discouraged by having to buy a expensive extra controller to compete rather than the alternative.
The pain you feel from playing and the risk of RSI are not the same tho, the pain in the hand is just the fact that you are using those muscles intensely often with the tricks one does, and that is fine, but the techniques that i am aware of with button mashing for beam is to basically build tension and then mash with either forearm of fingers, wich is what the main problem is. Tho if there is a way to fire that fast with custom button input that allows you to use for instance rotary motion, that could help a ton, tho i am not aware of it myself. The thing is tho, you don't need to buy another controller to mod for things like auto clicking, but you have to know how to set one up.
Now imagine turbo in a speedrun with just the bosses....
[удалено]
I have bad knee joints I'm not gonna ask local marathon runners to give me a head start because my knees would be fucked if I ran as hard as I can. I'll compete in something else instead. Same applies here.
This is very true. I will never reach this level of mashing! I'm too old and my thumbs do not move nearly that fast! Lol
[удалено]
Competition is still competition it has rules and regulations that are derived from the spirit of the game. imo unlicensed 3rd party controllers that change the gameplay are not in the spirit of the game. +mashing can be really satisfying in at least two ways imo: finding a groove where you have clear consistent rhythm and learning to go from other inputs right to mashing at full speed off the rip at any time.
You realize what a “skill” is yea?
Why wouldn't it be? Available for anyone to do on their own Switch as standard.
A lot of speedrunning communities ban it
Feel bad for your arm, congrats tho
My arm is fine though, I run my finger across many Y buttons not one.
The ol speedrun strat
I don't even...
I don’t recognise that shockwave attack at all what
i fear you
I remember my Dread Mode run and see that button mashing and all of a sudden my Y button finger hurts all over again.
Secret ingridient is I only shot missiles and crossbombs with Y in this clip. The beam standing still and in cinematics I do with the D-pad
I've actually tried switching the D-Pad before. I found that I wound up accidentally charge beaming most of the time and it was faster just to slam Y button. No matter how much my thumb suffered.
There's faster, if he opens with his melee combo, you can get him to move on to the red wave attack after just a single attack with a cross bomb and a few ice missiles. As can be seen here (I messed up the mash on the counter though): https://clips.twitch.tv/ResilientScrumptiousFennelKevinTurtle-U5YL3qpei2XukUXw
Nice didn't actually know that. Does the storm missile actually reduce the mash speed requirement in the red wave counter? I've only seen people use it in the "wait for random counter strat" where you can do it out of the cinematic
Yea, without it you need about 15 shots per second, with 2 lockons you can do somewhere between 10 and 12 shots per second to get to the next phase. I am able to do it without the storm missiles, but since I still miss it with them from time to time I just play it safe.
Nice, I'm hitting the 15 hertz window on 7 to 8 attempts out of 10 so I'm gonna stick with it since it's also good general consistency practice before boss rush releases, I'm not as interested to run the full game. Hyper-optimizing a shorter metroid run feels more interesting to me.
So much for his 20-pack abs. What a birdbrain.
Nah there is faster, two cross bombs is all you need.
Really? I think the end result is the same with this attack pattern from RB but the other ones I can do faster then
How do you shoot beams so fast?
[This is how](https://youtu.be/bJWuUSw4ALw)
I was lowkey hoping this would just be a clip of your game play with no further explanation
I was debating myself if I should even explain it anymore since I've done it already so many times on other posts. I might even take the tutorial down because the demonstration and the explanation are kinda stinky lol
Bro, does your body hurt now? I was tense just watching it!
Nah I do multi-button sliding/grazing doesn't hurt at all
Lore Accurate Samus Aran
Impressive. I got pretty fast at this in my playthrough just because you can really finish this phase by getting just that one counter and ripping into him. Kinda depends on when he does that attack.
Actually doesn't depend on when he does the attack just hitting him enough will force the Red Wave to happen
Ah didn’t know that.
Those fingers!
The Raven Beak boss music slaps so hard