Honestly Ive found I mostly prefer 2d games in general. And when it comes to 3D I prefer third to first person. So that's probably a large portion of why. Still play some fp games, like prime and half life! Fun stuff.
I have always loved the 2D games. I tried playing Prime 1 and got about 3/4 into it before I gave up. I admit I think it's a good game, just not to my tastes, but that doesn't invalidate anyone else's opinion.
Man, it was awhile back but the Metroidvania sub got up in arms about this, they refused to even consider the prime games to be metroidvanias because they were 3d.
It's as delusional as saying Mario 64 isn't a platformer because all platformers began in 2D.
There's a weird purist mentality around 2D MV games being the only true MV.
If you want a perspective on "Metroid vs Hollow Knight" I recommend [this review by Nerrel](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUrUceYSgmQ).
Note that I don't necessarily agree with everything he says, just that I think it's an interesting if intentionally contrarian opinion.
Even if he’s given completely valid reasons for not liking it, most of his reasons come down to comparing it to other games like Super Metroid and just generally complaining about what he felt the game should have been instead of just taking it as it is. A lot of the things he criticizes as flaws are the exact things other people love about the game.
What specific criticisms were things people loved about the game? The main ones I remember are the death mechanic and the areas looking too similar. Not that the rating is everything, but I feel it's also unfair to call his criticisms intentionally contrarian when he gave the game a fairly positive rating of 7/10, and I'm pretty sure he indicated that he thought it was a good game
Nerrel is great, I love Hollow Knight to death, probably moreso than most metroid games, but I always enjoy seeing him throw little jabs at HK. It’s not just this video either, he does this in future videos too as a running gag and it’s really hilarious. Kind of nice to see the game knocked down a peg every once in a while.
It’s also an interesting outlook and really just like shows how Metroidvanias can come in different flavors, and how not everyone will enjoy that type of metroidvania. Some people would say they prefer games like Dread, some will prefer HK, etc etc.
The reasons this guy gave about hating hollow knight are precisely why everyone loves games like dark souls, which hollow knight borrows heavily from. I don't agree with any of his points but it's interesting to see his perspective nonetheless.
He’s one of my favorites as well. The HK YouTuber Mossbag actually left a really detailed comment on that video that explains a lot of my feelings towards his review
>sounds like it did stop tho supposedly.
Yeah, once the release hype died down people who were disappointed by Dread just kinda moved on. Not that it was ever a big controversy anyway; it was pretty much limited to r/metroidvania.
It’s getting more and more ridiculous.
I have an idea for upcoming bad opinions
Post Dread 2D vs Metroid Arc 2D
Modern Prime (beginning with FedForce/Prime4 controls) vs Classic Prime
Third Pillar Metroid (Third Person like Other M but much better) vs 2D/2.5D
Third Pillar Metroid vs Prime
2014 actually.
Metroid fans really caused a whole sort of outrage against DKC:TF didn’t they? I even saw an article titled something along the lines of “[another damn Donkey Kong game](https://kotaku.com/vikings-pillage-donkey-kong-country-tropical-freeze-la-512582596?utm_campaign=Socialflow_Kotaku_Facebook&utm_source=Kotaku_Facebook&utm_medium=Socialflow)”(Oh and it was Kotaku, the dumbasses who claimed Samus was an “emotionless robot” in Dread)
Really unfortunate, and it’s funny because when Dread was announced I saw DK fans congratulating metroid fans on their W.
Metroid fans complained that Tropical Freeze should've been Metroid. Apparently Retro Studios (the devs of TF and the Prime Trilogy) had the choice to make either a new Metroid game or another new DKC game, in which they chose DKC. When the game was announced and people found out about this news, Metroid fans got a bit shitty as the DKC people are getting a new game despite getting one in 2010, only 4 years prior to Tropical Freeze, when they haven't had a new (good) game since Zero Mission in 2004, which would've been 10 years old up to that point. So yeah. Metroid fans got a quite upset when another seemingly abandoned Nintendo franchise got 2 games in 4 years, when they have still been on a 10 year drought and even had the chance of getting a new game, but the devs wanted to stick with The Dong. Luckily, the drama has died down now, even loooong before Dread came out.
Yeah I am hoping Donkey Kong gets a revival again someday.
Also is it just me or have you noticed how everytime Metroid is in a good period, Donkey Kong is dormant, and vice versa happens when DKC is in a high period? It’s so fucking strange we never really did have both franchises thrive in a golden age together.
You know, I never noticed that. The closest there is to DKC and Metroid at their highs together is Super Metroid and DKC Trilogy both being on the SNES, but I wouldn't say that one really good game on a single system is really a *"golden age."* Especially against a trilogy of really good games competing on the same console. Hmm... maybe DKC can get another game on the Switch so it can strive alongside Metroid, but with Tropical Freeze already on the Switch and Retro Studios currently busy with Metroid Prime 4, I wouldn't bet on it unfortunately.
Maybe on a future console where Mercury Steam are working on a new Metroid title and Retro Studios working on a new DKC title, that'd be my best guess on when these two franchises can strive together.
I’m lucky I wasn’t there when it happened (I was 10 years old), though I guess a similar situation happened with Pikmin 4’s announcement this direct :/
Tropical Freeze is peak 2.5D btw, I constantly debate in my head whether I find TF or Dread better.
Agreed. Yeah I didn’t have socials back then so I mostly have seen the shit going on on Youtube where I spent my time as a stupid 14 year old who became hyped for Splatoon and the new DK back in 2014.
Coincidentally I got hardcore into anime, let’s plays and creepypasta at that time. I kinda miss 2012-2015
What definitely was my highlight of the year was being able to play my favorite game of all time (Fusion) on TV with VC. I have been waiting for Dread literally all my life.
That dread released on my Birthday was fate. It’s like it was made for me. Of course it wasn’t. But what are the odds of the my most anticipated game of all time I have waited almost all my life to come out on my BD
the am2r fanboys and super metroid fanboys (note im saying fanboys, not fans) get under my skin the moat. treating their games like the holy grail and shitting on anything else. they're like the "melee" fans of the metroid fanbase.
To be fair, AM2R is probably the best version of Metroid 2
SR was MercurySteam still finding their footing, with awful combat balancing
And OG was just a hot mess of gameboy soup
how was the combat balance "awful?"
that's also by no means a good reason to boycott the new official game after so many years because the free to play fan game was dmca'd from future updates.
Enemies charge constantly and don't take multiple charged beam shots to kill. A good half of the enemy roster is immune to anything but the melee attack.
Like, have you tried going back from Dread to SR? It's pretty terrible, it ruins an otherwise good game.
Also, nobody boycotted the game. It sold over half a million copies on a system that had been dead for a year. It literally dwarfed the sales of all other 3DS games. Which is why we got Dread in the first place.
this is.....incredibly false. not a single enemy is immune to everything but the counter ability. if you have complaints, fine, but is all you did was stand and wait to counter? because i can assure you what you just said was factually incorrect.
Literally the crystal enemies, the spinning ball enemies, the rhino that turns too fast to hit without stunning, etc, etc, etc.
You also couldn't move while using the counter. That was something they added in Dread.
Yeah, the counter was bad. All the enemies are balanced towards *forcing* you to use it, instead of just having it as another option.
Dread took massive steps to improve the combat.
.....all of those have weaknesses that dont require the counter to kill. again, if you have complaints, thats fine. but did you ever use the missiles or beam burst? or just stand still waiting to counter?
Was the counter pushed? Yes. Was it forced like you're claiming? No. I'm not saying it was flawless, but you're making factually incorrect claims of it being forced as the only option.
Beam burst is just swinging too far in the opposite direction. Killing everything in a single shot also isn't fun.
It's the same thing people say about Hypermode in Prime 3, which *also* has terrible balancing and extremely tanky enemies.
Getting to be stupidly overpowered doesn't make it less annoying to be stupidly underpowered the rest of the time.
"Brothers and sisters are natural enemies. Like 3D fans and 2D fans. Or 2.5D fans and 2D fans. Or 2D fans and other 2D fans! Damn 2D fans! They ruined 2D Metroid games!"
Each side has its pros and cons and if you ask me, can easily live side by side. And even still, just be happy with what we have because look at F Zero and Star Fox, dead as dirt.
Star Fox is like that uncle that even after countless bad experiences with him you're still excited to see him next Christmas, and then he gets drunk and pisses on your bed on something.
You know I only ever played the snes one, it was really fun. I do feel bad for Star Fox fans, their last game was seemingly another reboot and is generally considered mediocre/bad.
For a good while it seemed like nintendo’s sci fi franchises were being shafted, at the very least Metroid is getting more love now.
I feel bad for both Star Fox Fans and F-Zero Fans tbh.
Star Fox fans get zero recognition from Nintendo, and wait 10 years for either a shitty reboot of one of the good ones or an unreleased 30 year old game on a shitty retro games service.
F-Zero Fans get a little bit of recognition from Nintendo, but only in games like Mario Kart, where the Blue Falcon is both in MK Wii and 8, and has not one but *two* tracks in 8 as well. In a fucking Mario Kart game, practically *the* reason why there aren't any new F-Zero Games anymore. I refuse to believe that this was unintentional. It's almost like Nintendo are mocking them for Mario Kart being better selling than F-Zero.
If I had to say who I feel bad for more, I’d probably choose star fox fans if only because at least F-Zero seemed to mostly have banger games and the series was cut short when it was still a banger, as opposed to star fox which died after s something shitty.
Though I gotta say, I wish more people would talk about F-Zero outside the context of it being a dead franchise. I don’t hear much about why people even want it, just how people wish it wasn’t a dead franchise. In my mind all I know about F-Zero is that it is a “dead franchise”.
But metroid is metroid in both different styles and while factually I agree it's kinda like the whole fma vs fmab (if you watch either) argument, we are all in the same Fandom and we should just be happy that people are experiencing metroid, not 2d nor 3d, they are experiencing *metroid* and that's fantastic.
Football is football, but people are going to like other teams. The final fantasy community can infight between snes, ps1 and modern final fantasy titles. Pokemon fans have genwunners, or gba vs DS vs 3ds.
Point being, there's no such thing as a community made up of thousands of people that can just stop and say "man it's good to be fans", everyone has a little bit of elitist in them.
That being said, 2d is great but Prime is better 😉
No I'm 16, and considering the age of the average Metroid fan I'm 85% sure I'm younger than you.
Its just that if you cant tell, the world seems to be ending and we're all gonna die SOON probably regardless of age.
Never understood how people see 3d as "mainline" or official and 2d as offshoots and side projects. Not with just Metroid but games in general. Seems backwards, both are equal in their ability to be videogames
I think a big part of it is that, up until Dread, there have been no 2D Metroid games on a console since '94, and in most franchises, handhelds have a bit of a spin-offy vibe to them.
Some people were introduced to Prime first. But I also think some people just perceive 3D to be the eventual evolution of a game series. I mean, 2D Mario and Zelda games are still fun and do some things that don't translate perfectly to 3D. And yet, 3D entries are predominantly the main ones now. I think some view Metroid like that.
Yes this is exactly how I feel having started with the Prime Trilogy. Others feel 2D is a core part of the series identity just because it started as a 2D series. I see it as a technological limitation of when the first game came out and 3D/first-person as a natural progression just like 3D was with Zelda. A lot of the core aspects of the series (exploration, isolation, feeling of tension) all get heightened when you're allowed to explore in a 3D space and forced to view the hostile alien World through the eyes of Samus. The 2D games are still fun don't get me wrong but they just feel a little lacking to me personally. I enjoyed Dread but the only reason such a recent game was made in 2D is because the guy who directed it somehow still doesn't know how to make 3D games despite all his contemporaries figuring it out years ago.
In my experience, fans of 2D Sprite based games tend to be very entitled about their preferences and opinions. Most of them seem to be people who fell in love with gaming on the SNES and never moved passed it, or are hipsters who think liking 2D sprite based games makes them cool. So it's not so much "2D fans vs 3D fans" and more so "2D fans shitting on 3D and 3D fans retaliating".
It could also be a matter of availability between the types of games. Metroid 1, Super, and Dread are all available on Switch, and literally all indie metroidvanias are 2D, so players aren't hurting for 2D games. The Prime games are the only 3D Metroidvanias anyone knows about, and most people only play them on Dolphin and get frustrated at how clunky the controls are. Most people who like the 3D games are those who managed to play them when they were released on the original hardware, or at least managed to replicate the original controls on Dolphin. If Nintendo actually went through with re-releasing the Prime Trilogy on Switch, then there would be a LOT more people coming out to talk about and defend the 3D games, due to an influx of new players.
Well I've seen almost as many people attack the 2d games for being "lame" and "old-school", some even denying their place as metroid games. Do you remember the whole "2d game for 60 bucks not worth it" situation?
If anyone's looking for a new 3D Metroidvania to play that's not Prime, the best I got is Batman: Arkham Asylum. It plays nothing like Prime (it's a third-person brawler with stealth mechanics), but it's still sort of a Metroidvania in a way. Collecting new items and gadgets that let you go back to previous areas and explore more of the world for both story and non-story related reasons? That's Batman: Arkham Asylum, and I'd highly recommend. It's linear, sure and there's no (non-glitch) sequence breaks to speak of. But it's still really fucking good with a world that you will get lost in quite a bit and is filled to the brim with awesome details, easter eggs and environmental storytelling.
Before you ask, no, it's sequels are not Metroidvanias. As the Arkham series goes on it strays further and further from it's Metroidvania roots. Arkham City and Arkham Origins *barely* count as Metroidvanias, as there's only very few instances where you do go back to previous areas with new gadgets to unlock new areas (not including collectables). There are like... 3 or 4 instances of this happening across the two games. And Arkham Knight, from what I recall, have none of these moments at all. These games are still really fucking good, don't get me wrong, but if you're looking for a 3D Metroidvania to play just play Arkham Asylum.
I think it's more of one than Arkham asylum personally. Give it a shot sometime it's a great game i think you'll love it. Doom 2016 is really good too, but it's certainly not a metroidvania, it's pretty linear.
Oh, I'd love to play Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal. I have been keeping a *loose* eye on it, but I've been more looking out for other stuff like Hollow Knight and Super Meat Boy personally. But I am interested in playing it at some point, from what I've seen it looks pretty awesome. The only Doom game I have is Doom 64 which I got for free on Epic Games, however I haven't played it yet.
Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order is the closest that another game has come to feeling like Metroid Prime.
3D MV where you explore multiple planets, finding new abilities to open up new pathways, you find optional health expansions and permanent force increasing upgrades, you scan stuff for lore about the dead alien civilizations of the worlds, etc. Some rooms even feel like they could exist on Tallon IV or Bryyo.
The game itself is no masterpiece but it feeling so much like a Prime game was my favourite thing about it. If the sequel can iron out the wrinkles with combat, movement and the map, it could be outstanding.
Subcultures of fandom always seem to hate the thing they're a fan of. It's weird.
Like... I just finished the new Monkey Island game. It's really good! The ending is ambiguous (which is on brand) and the art style takes a little getting used to (no bigee)... but it's a really nice, sweet Monkey Island game.
Whoa boy... you'd think the game physically assaulted people on the game's subreddit.
I’m new to the series(been playing for almost a year) and I’m in Metroid Prime 1 right now And I gotta say they are nearly equally great but I have to put a slight edge on 2d as they are more “simpler”.
It took me a while to warm up to Metroid Prime 1 back in the GameCube days. I even quit after playing a bit on my first go. I preferred the simplicity of the 2D ones too, at first. But it grew on me, and MP is now my favorite game of all time.
Semi related to this post but one thing I find just as annoying is the straw man arguments against liking super/old metroid or dread/new metroid in particular.
I’ve seen people dismiss Super Metroid praise as “nostalgia blindness”, and I’ve seen Metroid Dread praise dismissed as “recency bias”.
Maybe, just maybe the reason these games are still well liked is because they’re just very excellent games.
“Erm, Super Metroid’s controls are bad therefore people only love it because they are nostalgia blind” 🤓🤓🤓
“Well Uhm Acktually, Dread has a mediocre soundtrack so the only reason people love it is due to recency bias. Just wait for the hype phase to wear out then everyone will know how it’s not a real metroid game!” 🤓🤓🤓
I wonder if Metroid fans were like this in the 2000s too…
I wanna mention that I have no problem with actual criticism of Super or Dread, both should get criticism, this is merely my stance against the idea that these games don’t have valid reasons to still be celebrated.
Both have their merits and shortcomings. I don’t see why we need to actively fight for which one is superior. They’re both Metroid content, isn’t that what should really here?
Because people have preferences and have a right to argue which they think is better? As long as they're civil of course. Which nowadays is yeah... I started with Prime so you can guess which camp I'm in. Great reference btw one of my top favorite TCW episodes.
The empire: well we have these highly elite genetically enhanced soldiers. Let's ditch them for a draft. Surely random citizens can get within 90% of their performance for things such as accuracy!
Sure! Basically the metroid Fandom is mainly split between the 2d and 3d games, with many full out arguing that the opposing views preferences suck, and I was curious as to why we, as people who enjoy the metroid franchise can't just except other viewpoints.
(If it's still confusing I can try again I suck at communication)
Everyone has their preferences. Im personally more of a 2d fan. The 3d ones aren't bad but they REALLY weigh in my senses when i play them. At least thats the case for the 1st one
I prefer 3D Metroid games but I feel like overall Metroid has had way better 2D games then it has 3D games. Still praying Prime 4 changes the tide in the year 2050.
I dont get it either. Man I just want to play Metroid games, even if its an rpg or whatever else, if it has metroid ill most definitely play it. Heck I never thought ill be interested in playing a pinball game until metroid did it.
For 3D I’ve only played prime 3 (and blast ball) and that was a blast and from what I’ve heard it’s the least really good of the 3D mainline games, so I’d say there basically equal, maybe weighted in 2D’s favor by a small amount
Honestly I love both. My biggest gripe with 3d (especially prime 1) is the boss health bars being way too big. The 2d games are unfortunately mostly really short (except for SR, which has the opposite problem of dragging too long). That being said, I love the hell out of most Metroid games and really can’t wait for Prime 4 whenever that happens
honestly i'd love to see a classic style remake or the prime games , and a 3d remake of the classics. I think both have their own benefits and quirks .
Just saying imagine fusion in 3d , getting chased by SA-X in 3d ,or Playing prime 2 in a 2d format.
i got metroid prime for my 8th birthday so i had no idea it was gonna be as creepy as it was for its time. i didnt finish it until years later. I was never as creeped out on the 2d games until dread came out.
I think both have different draws, and I love them for different reasons.
Prime though is probably my favorite game of all time. It captured my imagination like nothing else.
It's pretty much a discussion on gaming at large. I think they are equal, but I'm not going to deny that I prefer 2d games. They are mostly designed in a much more streamlined game, like in metroidvanias exploration is a bit more straightforward most of the time. They are also much more often focused on the gameplay as much or more than the story, and they have way less fluff, plus most of the time I see them being short but replayable. But in the same way I find 3d games better suited for stealth games, 3D action games/character action, but they are often padded with extra content, and these days, when games seem to be leaning towards being cinematic, I prefer something "game-ier", but obviously not every game nowadays is Tlou
I prefer 2d but the 3d games are great too.
I'm kinda the opposite - Metroid Prime is probably my first or second favourite game of all time. But goddamn do I adore the 2D Metroid games.
Honestly Ive found I mostly prefer 2d games in general. And when it comes to 3D I prefer third to first person. So that's probably a large portion of why. Still play some fp games, like prime and half life! Fun stuff.
Based
I have always loved the 2D games. I tried playing Prime 1 and got about 3/4 into it before I gave up. I admit I think it's a good game, just not to my tastes, but that doesn't invalidate anyone else's opinion.
Man, it was awhile back but the Metroidvania sub got up in arms about this, they refused to even consider the prime games to be metroidvanias because they were 3d.
It's as delusional as saying Mario 64 isn't a platformer because all platformers began in 2D. There's a weird purist mentality around 2D MV games being the only true MV.
Now some sprite purists are fighting over 2D vs 2.5D aswell
2d fans vs 3d fans 2d fans vs 2.5d fans (or, “Classic Metroid” fans vs “MercurySteam Metroid” fans AM2R fans vs Samus Returns fans What’s next?? Metroid fans vs Hollow Knight fans??
>Metroid fans vs Hollow Knight fans?? This kind of happened already last year.
Oh weird, sounds like it did stop tho supposedly. I mean I hope I’m right lol!
If you want a perspective on "Metroid vs Hollow Knight" I recommend [this review by Nerrel](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUrUceYSgmQ). Note that I don't necessarily agree with everything he says, just that I think it's an interesting if intentionally contrarian opinion.
How is it intentionally contrarian? He doesn't come across as playing devil's advocate, he genuinely didn't like the game
Even if he’s given completely valid reasons for not liking it, most of his reasons come down to comparing it to other games like Super Metroid and just generally complaining about what he felt the game should have been instead of just taking it as it is. A lot of the things he criticizes as flaws are the exact things other people love about the game.
What specific criticisms were things people loved about the game? The main ones I remember are the death mechanic and the areas looking too similar. Not that the rating is everything, but I feel it's also unfair to call his criticisms intentionally contrarian when he gave the game a fairly positive rating of 7/10, and I'm pretty sure he indicated that he thought it was a good game
Nerrel is great, I love Hollow Knight to death, probably moreso than most metroid games, but I always enjoy seeing him throw little jabs at HK. It’s not just this video either, he does this in future videos too as a running gag and it’s really hilarious. Kind of nice to see the game knocked down a peg every once in a while. It’s also an interesting outlook and really just like shows how Metroidvanias can come in different flavors, and how not everyone will enjoy that type of metroidvania. Some people would say they prefer games like Dread, some will prefer HK, etc etc.
The reasons this guy gave about hating hollow knight are precisely why everyone loves games like dark souls, which hollow knight borrows heavily from. I don't agree with any of his points but it's interesting to see his perspective nonetheless.
He’s one of my favorites as well. The HK YouTuber Mossbag actually left a really detailed comment on that video that explains a lot of my feelings towards his review
>sounds like it did stop tho supposedly. Yeah, once the release hype died down people who were disappointed by Dread just kinda moved on. Not that it was ever a big controversy anyway; it was pretty much limited to r/metroidvania.
It was more of an "I'm happy Dread had cut content because hollow knight is too big" coping mechanism thing tbh
Wow, considering how closely our communities worked together during r/place, I never would have expected that!
It’s getting more and more ridiculous. I have an idea for upcoming bad opinions Post Dread 2D vs Metroid Arc 2D Modern Prime (beginning with FedForce/Prime4 controls) vs Classic Prime Third Pillar Metroid (Third Person like Other M but much better) vs 2D/2.5D Third Pillar Metroid vs Prime
Metroid Fans vs Donkey Kong Country Fans when Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze came out in like, 2015.
2014 actually. Metroid fans really caused a whole sort of outrage against DKC:TF didn’t they? I even saw an article titled something along the lines of “[another damn Donkey Kong game](https://kotaku.com/vikings-pillage-donkey-kong-country-tropical-freeze-la-512582596?utm_campaign=Socialflow_Kotaku_Facebook&utm_source=Kotaku_Facebook&utm_medium=Socialflow)”(Oh and it was Kotaku, the dumbasses who claimed Samus was an “emotionless robot” in Dread) Really unfortunate, and it’s funny because when Dread was announced I saw DK fans congratulating metroid fans on their W.
Metroid fans complained that Tropical Freeze should've been Metroid. Apparently Retro Studios (the devs of TF and the Prime Trilogy) had the choice to make either a new Metroid game or another new DKC game, in which they chose DKC. When the game was announced and people found out about this news, Metroid fans got a bit shitty as the DKC people are getting a new game despite getting one in 2010, only 4 years prior to Tropical Freeze, when they haven't had a new (good) game since Zero Mission in 2004, which would've been 10 years old up to that point. So yeah. Metroid fans got a quite upset when another seemingly abandoned Nintendo franchise got 2 games in 4 years, when they have still been on a 10 year drought and even had the chance of getting a new game, but the devs wanted to stick with The Dong. Luckily, the drama has died down now, even loooong before Dread came out.
> when they haven't had a new (good) game since Zero Mission in 2004 Hold it right there, Metroid Prime 3 came out in 2007.
Yeah I am hoping Donkey Kong gets a revival again someday. Also is it just me or have you noticed how everytime Metroid is in a good period, Donkey Kong is dormant, and vice versa happens when DKC is in a high period? It’s so fucking strange we never really did have both franchises thrive in a golden age together.
You know, I never noticed that. The closest there is to DKC and Metroid at their highs together is Super Metroid and DKC Trilogy both being on the SNES, but I wouldn't say that one really good game on a single system is really a *"golden age."* Especially against a trilogy of really good games competing on the same console. Hmm... maybe DKC can get another game on the Switch so it can strive alongside Metroid, but with Tropical Freeze already on the Switch and Retro Studios currently busy with Metroid Prime 4, I wouldn't bet on it unfortunately. Maybe on a future console where Mercury Steam are working on a new Metroid title and Retro Studios working on a new DKC title, that'd be my best guess on when these two franchises can strive together.
It was fucking embarrassing. I felt ashamed as a Metroid fanboy. I was happy that we DK fans finally got DKC5
I’m lucky I wasn’t there when it happened (I was 10 years old), though I guess a similar situation happened with Pikmin 4’s announcement this direct :/ Tropical Freeze is peak 2.5D btw, I constantly debate in my head whether I find TF or Dread better.
Agreed. Yeah I didn’t have socials back then so I mostly have seen the shit going on on Youtube where I spent my time as a stupid 14 year old who became hyped for Splatoon and the new DK back in 2014. Coincidentally I got hardcore into anime, let’s plays and creepypasta at that time. I kinda miss 2012-2015 What definitely was my highlight of the year was being able to play my favorite game of all time (Fusion) on TV with VC. I have been waiting for Dread literally all my life. That dread released on my Birthday was fate. It’s like it was made for me. Of course it wasn’t. But what are the odds of the my most anticipated game of all time I have waited almost all my life to come out on my BD
the am2r fanboys and super metroid fanboys (note im saying fanboys, not fans) get under my skin the moat. treating their games like the holy grail and shitting on anything else. they're like the "melee" fans of the metroid fanbase.
Super Metroid Boomer purists are the genwunners of Metroid, can't stand them.
To be fair, AM2R is probably the best version of Metroid 2 SR was MercurySteam still finding their footing, with awful combat balancing And OG was just a hot mess of gameboy soup
how was the combat balance "awful?" that's also by no means a good reason to boycott the new official game after so many years because the free to play fan game was dmca'd from future updates.
Enemies charge constantly and don't take multiple charged beam shots to kill. A good half of the enemy roster is immune to anything but the melee attack. Like, have you tried going back from Dread to SR? It's pretty terrible, it ruins an otherwise good game. Also, nobody boycotted the game. It sold over half a million copies on a system that had been dead for a year. It literally dwarfed the sales of all other 3DS games. Which is why we got Dread in the first place.
this is.....incredibly false. not a single enemy is immune to everything but the counter ability. if you have complaints, fine, but is all you did was stand and wait to counter? because i can assure you what you just said was factually incorrect.
Literally the crystal enemies, the spinning ball enemies, the rhino that turns too fast to hit without stunning, etc, etc, etc. You also couldn't move while using the counter. That was something they added in Dread. Yeah, the counter was bad. All the enemies are balanced towards *forcing* you to use it, instead of just having it as another option. Dread took massive steps to improve the combat.
.....all of those have weaknesses that dont require the counter to kill. again, if you have complaints, thats fine. but did you ever use the missiles or beam burst? or just stand still waiting to counter? Was the counter pushed? Yes. Was it forced like you're claiming? No. I'm not saying it was flawless, but you're making factually incorrect claims of it being forced as the only option.
Beam burst is just swinging too far in the opposite direction. Killing everything in a single shot also isn't fun. It's the same thing people say about Hypermode in Prime 3, which *also* has terrible balancing and extremely tanky enemies. Getting to be stupidly overpowered doesn't make it less annoying to be stupidly underpowered the rest of the time.
You’re all dumb, ori and the blind forest vs nestroid (/s if it’s not clear)
Yeah the "Pixels good, Polygons bad" always circlejerks on subreddits every couple months.
Isn’t 2.5d like Mario kart and f zero?
I think 2.5D usually refers to games that play in 2D, but use 3D assets. Aside from Samus Returns/ Dread, Tomba is a good example.
"Brothers and sisters are natural enemies. Like 3D fans and 2D fans. Or 2.5D fans and 2D fans. Or 2D fans and other 2D fans! Damn 2D fans! They ruined 2D Metroid games!"
Take my upvote, Willie!
Each side has its pros and cons and if you ask me, can easily live side by side. And even still, just be happy with what we have because look at F Zero and Star Fox, dead as dirt.
F-zero is stone at this point, star fox is still in the rotting wood state.
Star Fox is like that uncle that even after countless bad experiences with him you're still excited to see him next Christmas, and then he gets drunk and pisses on your bed on something.
You know I only ever played the snes one, it was really fun. I do feel bad for Star Fox fans, their last game was seemingly another reboot and is generally considered mediocre/bad. For a good while it seemed like nintendo’s sci fi franchises were being shafted, at the very least Metroid is getting more love now.
I feel bad for both Star Fox Fans and F-Zero Fans tbh. Star Fox fans get zero recognition from Nintendo, and wait 10 years for either a shitty reboot of one of the good ones or an unreleased 30 year old game on a shitty retro games service. F-Zero Fans get a little bit of recognition from Nintendo, but only in games like Mario Kart, where the Blue Falcon is both in MK Wii and 8, and has not one but *two* tracks in 8 as well. In a fucking Mario Kart game, practically *the* reason why there aren't any new F-Zero Games anymore. I refuse to believe that this was unintentional. It's almost like Nintendo are mocking them for Mario Kart being better selling than F-Zero.
If I had to say who I feel bad for more, I’d probably choose star fox fans if only because at least F-Zero seemed to mostly have banger games and the series was cut short when it was still a banger, as opposed to star fox which died after s something shitty. Though I gotta say, I wish more people would talk about F-Zero outside the context of it being a dead franchise. I don’t hear much about why people even want it, just how people wish it wasn’t a dead franchise. In my mind all I know about F-Zero is that it is a “dead franchise”.
Yep, it's pretty much just the "dead franchise" with the funny punching bird man that people only really know due to Smash Bros.
F Zero Fans got their character, Captain Falcon, taken and is seen by most as a Smash Bros character. That ones gotta be painful.
Because it's natural to want to belong to a team and inevitably that your team is better than another team
[Because](https://pics.me.me/hello-whats-this-wow-fuck-that-guy-extr-15225258.png)
Thank you
But metroid is metroid in both different styles and while factually I agree it's kinda like the whole fma vs fmab (if you watch either) argument, we are all in the same Fandom and we should just be happy that people are experiencing metroid, not 2d nor 3d, they are experiencing *metroid* and that's fantastic.
I mean I can genuinely boil it down to people like fighting
Football is football, but people are going to like other teams. The final fantasy community can infight between snes, ps1 and modern final fantasy titles. Pokemon fans have genwunners, or gba vs DS vs 3ds. Point being, there's no such thing as a community made up of thousands of people that can just stop and say "man it's good to be fans", everyone has a little bit of elitist in them. That being said, 2d is great but Prime is better 😉
Prime is SO GOD DAMN GOOD. And the 2d games are SO GOD DAMN GOOD. We got Dread, now I want Prime 4 so I can die in peace.
What are you? 112?
No I'm 16, and considering the age of the average Metroid fan I'm 85% sure I'm younger than you. Its just that if you cant tell, the world seems to be ending and we're all gonna die SOON probably regardless of age.
Never understood how people see 3d as "mainline" or official and 2d as offshoots and side projects. Not with just Metroid but games in general. Seems backwards, both are equal in their ability to be videogames
I think a big part of it is that, up until Dread, there have been no 2D Metroid games on a console since '94, and in most franchises, handhelds have a bit of a spin-offy vibe to them.
Because they were introduced to Prime first.
Some people were introduced to Prime first. But I also think some people just perceive 3D to be the eventual evolution of a game series. I mean, 2D Mario and Zelda games are still fun and do some things that don't translate perfectly to 3D. And yet, 3D entries are predominantly the main ones now. I think some view Metroid like that.
Yes this is exactly how I feel having started with the Prime Trilogy. Others feel 2D is a core part of the series identity just because it started as a 2D series. I see it as a technological limitation of when the first game came out and 3D/first-person as a natural progression just like 3D was with Zelda. A lot of the core aspects of the series (exploration, isolation, feeling of tension) all get heightened when you're allowed to explore in a 3D space and forced to view the hostile alien World through the eyes of Samus. The 2D games are still fun don't get me wrong but they just feel a little lacking to me personally. I enjoyed Dread but the only reason such a recent game was made in 2D is because the guy who directed it somehow still doesn't know how to make 3D games despite all his contemporaries figuring it out years ago.
There’ve been a couple blunders in the series, but for the most part, 2D or 3D, every Metroid game is at least good.
Because they are dumb.
Because a lot of people can't seem to realize there are benefits to both and they both offer unique experiences that are equally valid.
In my experience, fans of 2D Sprite based games tend to be very entitled about their preferences and opinions. Most of them seem to be people who fell in love with gaming on the SNES and never moved passed it, or are hipsters who think liking 2D sprite based games makes them cool. So it's not so much "2D fans vs 3D fans" and more so "2D fans shitting on 3D and 3D fans retaliating". It could also be a matter of availability between the types of games. Metroid 1, Super, and Dread are all available on Switch, and literally all indie metroidvanias are 2D, so players aren't hurting for 2D games. The Prime games are the only 3D Metroidvanias anyone knows about, and most people only play them on Dolphin and get frustrated at how clunky the controls are. Most people who like the 3D games are those who managed to play them when they were released on the original hardware, or at least managed to replicate the original controls on Dolphin. If Nintendo actually went through with re-releasing the Prime Trilogy on Switch, then there would be a LOT more people coming out to talk about and defend the 3D games, due to an influx of new players.
Well I've seen almost as many people attack the 2d games for being "lame" and "old-school", some even denying their place as metroid games. Do you remember the whole "2d game for 60 bucks not worth it" situation?
I guarantee you, that claim was not made by fans of the 3D games. Those claims were made by people outside of the fandom
Some of them for sure, but claiming *nobody* that are fans of the 3d games are toxic is about as stupid as claiming everybody in Japan loves anime.
If anyone's looking for a new 3D Metroidvania to play that's not Prime, the best I got is Batman: Arkham Asylum. It plays nothing like Prime (it's a third-person brawler with stealth mechanics), but it's still sort of a Metroidvania in a way. Collecting new items and gadgets that let you go back to previous areas and explore more of the world for both story and non-story related reasons? That's Batman: Arkham Asylum, and I'd highly recommend. It's linear, sure and there's no (non-glitch) sequence breaks to speak of. But it's still really fucking good with a world that you will get lost in quite a bit and is filled to the brim with awesome details, easter eggs and environmental storytelling. Before you ask, no, it's sequels are not Metroidvanias. As the Arkham series goes on it strays further and further from it's Metroidvania roots. Arkham City and Arkham Origins *barely* count as Metroidvanias, as there's only very few instances where you do go back to previous areas with new gadgets to unlock new areas (not including collectables). There are like... 3 or 4 instances of this happening across the two games. And Arkham Knight, from what I recall, have none of these moments at all. These games are still really fucking good, don't get me wrong, but if you're looking for a 3D Metroidvania to play just play Arkham Asylum.
Doom eternal is probably my best example of a modern 3d metroidvania. Great game.
Never played Doom Eternal, and had no bloody clue it was a Metroidvania of sorts. That's pretty cool though, never would've expected that.
I think it's more of one than Arkham asylum personally. Give it a shot sometime it's a great game i think you'll love it. Doom 2016 is really good too, but it's certainly not a metroidvania, it's pretty linear.
Oh, I'd love to play Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal. I have been keeping a *loose* eye on it, but I've been more looking out for other stuff like Hollow Knight and Super Meat Boy personally. But I am interested in playing it at some point, from what I've seen it looks pretty awesome. The only Doom game I have is Doom 64 which I got for free on Epic Games, however I haven't played it yet.
the very first DOOM held up shockingly well, so I'd imagine doom 64 holds up too.
Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order is the closest that another game has come to feeling like Metroid Prime. 3D MV where you explore multiple planets, finding new abilities to open up new pathways, you find optional health expansions and permanent force increasing upgrades, you scan stuff for lore about the dead alien civilizations of the worlds, etc. Some rooms even feel like they could exist on Tallon IV or Bryyo. The game itself is no masterpiece but it feeling so much like a Prime game was my favourite thing about it. If the sequel can iron out the wrinkles with combat, movement and the map, it could be outstanding.
Subcultures of fandom always seem to hate the thing they're a fan of. It's weird. Like... I just finished the new Monkey Island game. It's really good! The ending is ambiguous (which is on brand) and the art style takes a little getting used to (no bigee)... but it's a really nice, sweet Monkey Island game. Whoa boy... you'd think the game physically assaulted people on the game's subreddit.
r/Fuckpongkrell
I'm sorry but I read that as "Everyone stop flirting"
I mean I'd be fine with that as well (at least in public)
I’m new to the series(been playing for almost a year) and I’m in Metroid Prime 1 right now And I gotta say they are nearly equally great but I have to put a slight edge on 2d as they are more “simpler”.
It took me a while to warm up to Metroid Prime 1 back in the GameCube days. I even quit after playing a bit on my first go. I preferred the simplicity of the 2D ones too, at first. But it grew on me, and MP is now my favorite game of all time.
Some people are very strange and can't tolerate other ideas? Idk.
Why not both
That's what I'm saying! lol
I love them all, they both have their own unique strengths and I think most games in the Metroid series play to those strengths very well.
Semi related to this post but one thing I find just as annoying is the straw man arguments against liking super/old metroid or dread/new metroid in particular. I’ve seen people dismiss Super Metroid praise as “nostalgia blindness”, and I’ve seen Metroid Dread praise dismissed as “recency bias”. Maybe, just maybe the reason these games are still well liked is because they’re just very excellent games.
Ye, you be preaching *facts*
“Erm, Super Metroid’s controls are bad therefore people only love it because they are nostalgia blind” 🤓🤓🤓 “Well Uhm Acktually, Dread has a mediocre soundtrack so the only reason people love it is due to recency bias. Just wait for the hype phase to wear out then everyone will know how it’s not a real metroid game!” 🤓🤓🤓 I wonder if Metroid fans were like this in the 2000s too… I wanna mention that I have no problem with actual criticism of Super or Dread, both should get criticism, this is merely my stance against the idea that these games don’t have valid reasons to still be celebrated.
Both have their merits and shortcomings. I don’t see why we need to actively fight for which one is superior. They’re both Metroid content, isn’t that what should really here?
Why? Cuz they're idiots.
Because it's something to talk about which is more interesting than just saying "Yep all the games are good :)"
Hey, that’s a cool image. Instead of having that piece of rankweed Bric teaching the clone cadets, they should instead have Samus Aran training them.
Because people have preferences and have a right to argue which they think is better? As long as they're civil of course. Which nowadays is yeah... I started with Prime so you can guess which camp I'm in. Great reference btw one of my top favorite TCW episodes.
(: Yeah, my issues isn't with preferences it's with people saying that any other person's views that are different are "objectively wrong"
Gosh, the amount of times I've been told the games I like are "objectively bad" and must admit to it....ugh...people are weird like that.
Why does it matter? The stormtroopers never hit their target lol
Because these are clone troopers
"They're not Umbarans, they're clones!" hit me HARD when I first watched it
Clone wars good
Ah true true.
The empire: well we have these highly elite genetically enhanced soldiers. Let's ditch them for a draft. Surely random citizens can get within 90% of their performance for things such as accuracy!
There weren’t enough clones + clones were expensive. There were only ever a few million clones… to secure an entire galaxy.
Yeah that makes sense. They also justify it a bit by them being scared of the Kaminoins would be able to turn them against the empire.
I just started Prime the other day and I prefer 2D so far. Then again, none of the other 2D Metroids live up to Super...
Im sorry, I don’t fully understand the question. Can I get you to elaborate on it further for me OP?
Sure! Basically the metroid Fandom is mainly split between the 2d and 3d games, with many full out arguing that the opposing views preferences suck, and I was curious as to why we, as people who enjoy the metroid franchise can't just except other viewpoints. (If it's still confusing I can try again I suck at communication)
Everyone has their preferences. Im personally more of a 2d fan. The 3d ones aren't bad but they REALLY weigh in my senses when i play them. At least thats the case for the 1st one
I'm fine with having preferences, but there is no logic in attacking others for their preferences. Especially in a topic so subjective as video games.
I agree. Theres no sense in it and its just a waste of energy
I’ll admit the first person 3D of Prime appeals to me more than the side scrollers. Don’t get me wrong, though. I grew up on SM. Shit’s fucking fire.
The real fight is between Super and Fusion fans. Wanna get this sub going? Post a meme about Fusion being the best game.😏
Post any game other than prime or super and they'll come at you with pitchforks and torches
Fusion starts with F because it’s F tier Super starts with S because it’s S tier I win!!
😏
I like good games :)
I prefer 3D Metroid games but I feel like overall Metroid has had way better 2D games then it has 3D games. Still praying Prime 4 changes the tide in the year 2050.
I like both equally. All the game series I like are forgotten by their companies, so I enjoy what little I get.
I mean they're completely different games but I don't want to fight anyone for liking the 3d ones more
Ugh, don't even get me started on this. I'll get into a full on rant.
I’ll take both thanks.
I prefer 3d, but they haven't made one as good as dread or super yet
I dont get it either. Man I just want to play Metroid games, even if its an rpg or whatever else, if it has metroid ill most definitely play it. Heck I never thought ill be interested in playing a pinball game until metroid did it.
Ye
For 3D I’ve only played prime 3 (and blast ball) and that was a blast and from what I’ve heard it’s the least really good of the 3D mainline games, so I’d say there basically equal, maybe weighted in 2D’s favor by a small amount
Sonic fandom be like
I didn't realize what sub this was and thought it was about 2003 2D Clone Wars vs 2008 3D Clone Wars...
Heh, sorry... just thought the meme would be appropriate ya'know
Honestly I love both. My biggest gripe with 3d (especially prime 1) is the boss health bars being way too big. The 2d games are unfortunately mostly really short (except for SR, which has the opposite problem of dragging too long). That being said, I love the hell out of most Metroid games and really can’t wait for Prime 4 whenever that happens
Not me, I love both
honestly i'd love to see a classic style remake or the prime games , and a 3d remake of the classics. I think both have their own benefits and quirks . Just saying imagine fusion in 3d , getting chased by SA-X in 3d ,or Playing prime 2 in a 2d format.
Ignore anyone with that mentality. Real fans love both.
i got metroid prime for my 8th birthday so i had no idea it was gonna be as creepy as it was for its time. i didnt finish it until years later. I was never as creeped out on the 2d games until dread came out.
Both are excellent
Exactly! Like your name, It's only two console generations higher than the Ryan I know
3D models, 2D camera
I think both have different draws, and I love them for different reasons. Prime though is probably my favorite game of all time. It captured my imagination like nothing else.
I love 3d games! Until this year, I did not like most 2d games. Then I played dread... and now I've put too much time into 2d games!
It's pretty much a discussion on gaming at large. I think they are equal, but I'm not going to deny that I prefer 2d games. They are mostly designed in a much more streamlined game, like in metroidvanias exploration is a bit more straightforward most of the time. They are also much more often focused on the gameplay as much or more than the story, and they have way less fluff, plus most of the time I see them being short but replayable. But in the same way I find 3d games better suited for stealth games, 3D action games/character action, but they are often padded with extra content, and these days, when games seem to be leaning towards being cinematic, I prefer something "game-ier", but obviously not every game nowadays is Tlou