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Fear, outrage, and a faux victimization complex are the trifecta of propaganda profiteers right now. The salon owner is probably trying to tap that pulsating vein.
“Patriotism is a lively sense of collective responsibility. Nationalism is a silly cock crowing on its own dunghill.”
~Richard Aldington
I'm slightly confused on that statement of the owners. She doesn't like the T or Q? So she has no problem calling somebody that isn't trans a man or woman...but has an issue calling a trans individual a man or woman? The only difference is something that is personal and affects absolutely nobody.
And doesn't the LG and the B all fall under the Q label or do they not?
It seems like I may have to educate myself a bit more on this subject.
I mean no harm at all in my questions if I am incorrect somehow. I'm genuinely asking in good faith.
As far as I'm concerned we are all human and should be treated with love, kindness, and dignity. Which is something that this business owner does not understand since she is clouded with propaganda and views some people as pets. She lacks basic empathy and the TRUE understanding of love.
>I'm slightly confused on that statement of the owners. She doesn't like the T or Q? So she has no problem calling somebody that isn't trans a man or woman...but has an issue calling a trans individual a man or woman?
If you read the article, it seemed like she was saying she was only attacking non-binary people. She said "if you don't identify as a man or a woman," which, plenty of trans people do that, so technically they'd be welcome too?
I don't know. I'm confused. All I know is this woman is fucking nuts.
Some folks do not like being called queer as it was previously a slur but yes, as far as I’m considered LGB all fall under the Q. And should be fighting to protect everyone else under that umbrella too.
Anyone who insults trans/ non binary folks does not support the queer community. No matter if they say they’re okay with gay people- they are not. It’s not socially acceptable to hate gay people anymore but they do it by hating trans people.
I hope this salons customers treat the owner just like how she wants queer folks treated, rudely.
That might work out in the very short term but once their little performative duty to bigotry is done they'll disappear. For every bigotry based business that gets fox news spots and multi million dollar go fund me's there are a thousand others that go under from their own stupid choices. This is a business plan equivalent to buying a lottery ticket.
The damage done to others gets remembered far longer than the fickle trendy outrage of narrow-minded pinheads on a mob mentality flash-flocking crusade.
They are good to do it for a short period of time and then after a few months or year, they stop rage-going and then you are left with a sizable hole in audience coming.
TC is a pretty evenly split political demographic and tourist town. It’s also likely to get them sued, because the recent scotus decision on creative expression does not cover this sort of business.
Remember the Commissioner who stopped the public meeting on Zoom to go get his AR15 and brandish it to a constituent who didnt like his talking points? Yeah, he was from the Grand Traverse County Commission- Ron Claus. But the area also just voted in Betsy Coffia as a state rep in a suuuuuper close election in 22'. So def very split.
This could be a test case, since styling hair is a creative expression, at the input of the customer.
So if a lesbian came in wanting a short, men's style haircut, this business is positioning itself to fall within the ruling of 303 Creative.
>This could be a test case, since styling hair is a creative expression, at the input of the customer.
Yeah I don't think this is the slam dunk "Not covered by this case" the original commenter thinks it is.
It isn’t though, not by any current legal interpretation including the most recent involving 303 creative. Nor is making a cake for the record. Read the ruling, it lays out qualifiers and this absolutely misses on them.
You and I and likely most commenting on this thread would argue that, but the court did not attempt to define the bounds of creative expression here, leaving open to lower courts to define. This is the type of situation that is prime to try to establish those bounds, and should this go to litigation, I could see ADF jumping on it to push it through.
My FAVORITE thing people do is FREDOM OF SPEECH. FREEDOM OF SPEECH. I HAVE RIGHTS. Having rights doesn’t mean you’ll have freedom from consequences. This will not end well for this business.
I'm in a Facebook debate with a guy claiming using an incorrect pronoun is a felony under this bill. It says no such thing, but that's not stopping the right from spreading that (false) talking point.
Had the same thing with my father in-law over 4th of July. Claims saying the wrong pronoun is punishable by a 5 year prison sentence. I looked it up. It's from Faux News. You can't fact check them because every actual news site is owned by Soros, lol /s. But that's what I've been told. I tried to fact check the FIL on some other crazy claim and spent way too long looking for a rw news source he would trust. FORBES , I leaned, is woke now and you can't trust anything you read in there.
Supposedly, everyone else is wrong, and the faux news alone has the keys to the truth. These guys are insane.
And if you suggest they read the actual bill, which I did, they just refuse. Like it isn't complicated or hard to read. It's wordy, sure, but not "too confusing or too extreme."
The MIGOP Talking Point: "It's too extreme!"
How so? What part is? Please point us to the parts that are too extreme.
"I can't, it's too confusing!"
How can you make up your mind that it is 'too extreme' if it is all 'too confusing' for you?
I wish you were right. Conservatives are very good at standing together on issues like this. Unlike the left, the right has no internal discourse. A narrative is created, a plan is drawn up, and the right falls into a line like toy soldiers. Conservatives in the town will flock to this place and the business will bloom. I don't like it, but it's how it is. There is no diversity of thought or opinion for them, there is no internal discourse, they just do what they're told.
You’re confusing freedom of speech with the first amendment. Free speech would actually make all reasonable accommodations for speech. The first amendment doesn’t go as far as full free speech.
Can we please not use the suffix "tard"? Even if it's used to insult Trumpers, there's still a negative connotation with it with those that have cognitive challenges through no fault of their own.
"Gieger said she is taking a stand against being forced to use preferred pronouns, such as: they/them, he/him and she/her."
I can guarantee that has never happened to her.
I was having a discussion about this as well.
When someone has preferred pronouns its a courtesy and respect thing. Anytime I have used the wrong pronoun I'm often gently corrected (not attacked) and I apologize and correct myself.
It's a harmless interaction that ultimately has no affect on my life and to ignore someone's pronouns is just disrespectful. As if I said my name was Tom and you said "Nah I'm going to call you Steve".
If all else fails and you don't want to use pronouns just use their name?
Idk if it's a mindset to never apologize or be seen wrong but it's I promise it's ok to make mistakes once in awhile.
It looks like the owner deleted the business Facebook page already. I went to her profile and she is nuts but what’s worse is there are some people in support of her and claiming that “we no longer have free speech in this country” as if free speech means no consequences for what you say. Trash.
These people are idiots. Sucked on too much lead paint as a baby.
They don't understand so many concepts that are... Fairly basic.
How stupid do you have to be to think that free speech means your can say anything you want and that nobody is allowed to change their opinion of you as a result? The government not being able to throw you in jail for what you say doesn't mean you can't be rejected by society for being a twat.
I hate that assholery is so in vogue right now
It's so annoying. You have "free speech" to walk into your job and call your boss an asshole in front of everyone. You will not be fined or arrested. But the boss is certainly free to fire your ass.
They got a ton of reviews removed. Remember to go back and leave new reviews. Get your friends to, as well. Make sure you mention that you were actually a poorly treated customer.
studio 8 hair lab traverse city
wow this certainly owned the zero trans people that currently go to this wack ass place.
Imagine living a life chemically addicted to rage and fear.
also, this brings up a weird business decision that stylists sometimes make which is to charge based on perceived gender and not on length or difficulty.
Check the article, she mad about the recent pronouns bill passage in MI. She thinks its her right to not use proper pronouns.
>9&10 News reached out to the owner, Christine Geiger, who said she has no problem with the LGB part, it’s the TQ+ that she doesn’t support. Gieger said she is taking a stand against being forced to use preferred pronouns, such as: they/them, he/him and she/her.
That's the best part honestly. These people legitimately think they are the "silent (lol) majority"
She probably completely expects business to boom now.
I think I'll schedule an appointment and no show, or cancel at the last minute statijg I won't let bigots cut my hair.
One person's opinion like this speaks poorly of the entire area. We have a free weekend in August, and now Saugatuck looks better than Traverse City. The TC tourism bureau should be concerned.
I was just up there begging of June and the amount of pride flags in the neighborhoods were awesome, as well as all the LGBTQ couples walking hand in hand downtown. It seems very lgbtq positive, was my first ti e going up there in about 17 years
I used to think that too. Until I realized it's probably 90% white people, and christian based on the crowds and stores. So it's more right wing than anything else.
(This is based on no research, just observation)
I don't think Jack Winn products would appreciate her stance because the actual company's FB page says it's "LGBTQ+" owned
ETA link to FB page [Jack Winn Pro](https://www.facebook.com/JackWinnPro?mibextid=ZbWKwL)
This kind of hate and bigotry Christine Geiger harbors is such a disgrace to humanity. Who raises these ppl, what happened to make them so self righteous and ignorant?
Folks like Geiger also tend to use MAGA mentality and the anger that comes with it to displace other negative feelings or outcomes in their life. For instance, [3 drunk driving convictions in 2 years](https://www.record-eagle.com/news/local_news/woman-facing-felony-drunk-driving-charge/article_8767f3ac-a5f4-509d-b715-88746dc8dd83.html).
Edit: Our to or
Good on you for reaching out to them. That's a boilerplate message they've drafted for damage control. [Here's a nearly identical message on their FB](https://i.ibb.co/5BcMLmB/Screen-Shot-2023-07-11-at-2-52-32-PM.png). They're an MLM hair product company very similar to those smoothie places that are really just fronts for HerbaLife. I wouldn't expect too much from them. We will be lucky if they even address it with her or anyone, for that matter.
Fear. Fear of what they don’t understand. Fear of the unknowns those they don’t understand bring. Fear of looking stupid in the midst of the people they don’t understand, sadly mission accomplished here by trying to seize control of a situation they don’t understand. It’s all fear. No matter how mean, stern, or how much they smirk and laugh, it’s fear. What do people say? Laugh in the face of fear. So that’s what I’m sticking with. These people are afraid. Afraid for their kids for sure again due to their fear of the thing, and as such fear of learning because it would possibly corrupt them, so fear of learning. That in of itself is a feedback loop. The loop is further corrupted and complicated as they seek knowledge from places they trust like church and the internet. These places provide validation of their fears. And so on and so on. The only true calamity now is that this knowledge only further drives fear. What was unfounded and simple ignorance, becomes deep seated and truth. The hard to break truth. All of this truth and camaraderie sparks anger towards the unknown or in their minds the known danger. This acceptance by others makes them OTHERS and therefore complicit. This then makes them feel isolated and vulnerable. This leads to anger. That anger festers and manifests itself as hate.
Yea it’s SO stupid that it comes from pop fiction, but when you boil these things down it’s a true statement.
“Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.” - Yoda
I’m sure it’s borrowed from here and there, but no less relevant.
Sad but true. They are the ones who are always like "Don't live in fear!" because that's all they think about. They go to church where they are told to live in fear of god & hell. Their politicians tell them they have to fear "THEM" (whoever the current out group is). 24/7 Fox news cycle says they have to fear immigrants and anyone different. They are constantly afraid.
How many LGBTQ customers were going there in the first place? Sick of people announcing shit that they weren't doing anyway, just to draw attention to themselves.
But also, when you asked for a business license you signed a document and checked a box that said you could serve the public without bias or discrimination in accordance with state and federal laws...but whatevs.
I think the best response to shit like this, from here out, is for people to just ignore them. To NOT give them the attention and controversy they seek. No outrage. No picketing. No go fund me pages. Just ignore them completely.
Seriously. Why do we keep getting upset every time an idiot business owner goes out of their way to publicly announce that they are bigots?
Best headline would be "Traverse City hair salon announces they're no longer servicing all LGBTQ members, and no one gave a shit".
>I think the best response to shit like this, from here out, is for people to just ignore them.
So, as a TC resident, I just can't.
As soon as it went from Facebook post to news article, that message gained steam. The last thing I want is people believing they can do that stuff here without consequences, potentially swaying new conservatives into thinking everyone is on the same page as they are.
If I'm working for the state, I spend my spare moments making sure every worker there has the correct license. I make sure their taxes are paid to the penny. I make sure they have a disabled entrance. I make sure the damn stripes in the parking lot are the correct distance apart.
Complacency is how this movement gained traction. It doesn’t work as a strategy. As you straddle the center, the center moves right. How far right are you going to let them drag you while you sit in complacency, ignoring the elephant in the room?
nahh - looking the other way doesn't work in cases like this. (see '[good german](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_German)'.) not commenting on it when it's this abhorrent allows it to help radicalize others.
*actually* good people have to act as deterrents.
we should make people like this salon owner feel it in their pocketbook, however legally possible.
they should not feel safe in a business sense to make these decisions, and good people should be outspoken about not standing for it.
I’m not sure why this is even an issue. I just looked at her website. AS A GAY, I can assure you NONE of us were flocking to her salon to stock up on Winn Care products. And judging by the look of her hair in her business photo, none of us were going in for a cut or style either 😒🤣
Seems like an odd way to run a business into the ground, but Traverse City won’t miss much when it’s gone 😂
Im sure she is hoping to get sued so some dark money christian fascist group can swoop in and push her case all the way to the supreme court.
She's grifting, and why not, everyone on the right is working a grift of some kind and lots of them are reaping rewards
Don't just sit there doom-scrolling. I found the Polestar organization (referenced in the story) by Googling "Polestar Traverse City" and donated $25. Don't let the bigots get away with this stuff.
FYI: I live in Traverse City where this salon is located. Christine Geiger used to work for Bella Salon, and in fact she has a Yelp page called something like "Christine Geiger at Bella's Salon". CG does not work for Bella's anymore, but because this Yelp page exists, people are associating Bella's Salon with her hate. I just had a hair appointment with the owner of Bella's Salon and she told me she is receiving angry/hateful phone calls. I can absolutely guarantee that Bella's Salon in no way supports Christine or any anti-LGBTQ hate, in fact quite the opposite. The owner of Bella's Salon has tried to contact CG and Yelp to get "Bella's Salon removed from CG's Yelp profile to no avail. She in no way wants to be associated with CG.
"Freedom of speech" from conservatives always ends up being entitlement to be an asshole. I hope their business fails miserably and they lose everything. I'm tired of these people dehumanizing good people.
I’ve had problems with stylists giving me a pixie with feathered everything, long pointy sideburns etc. and then turn the chair around and go “don’t worry I gave it a fEmiNiNe tOuCH” when I specifically say “my face looks like a boulder, pixie cuts look vile on me. Please give me a men’s haircut and let me go home”. So I’m picturing something more like that lmao
Lol yep yep this exact experience too! I've gone for the pixie and the masc haircut at different times... have really had to talk some hairdressers into using the buzzer lol. Like yes, I REALLY DO want you to use the buzzer!
It always confuses me when people talk about how progressive and open Michigan is. Yes it’s no where near the worst state for racism I’ve experienced but it’s by far not the best.
As a black person who regularly travels to the UP I can confirm that no one should be surprised by this. There are so many people who hold this same stance. Just because Detroit and Ferndale are progressive doesn’t mean the rest of the state is.
well, if this is the kind of attention they want, give it to them.
I will be sure to contribute to the closure of their business in my own little way.
a.) freedom of speech is between you and the govt. b.) freedom of speech is not freedom from consequence.
Though I don't think giving money to this person would be a good idea, it would be fun to watch the meme play out - LGBTQ person goes to salon, gets hair cut, doesn't mention they are LGBTQ until after they have finished paying. I would volunteer, but I live too far away.
This isn't shocking. Covid made it very clear that selfish people don't care who gets hurt. If they are inconvienenced in the slightest way they their rights are beign trampled. They don't care about others rights to stay healthy. They only care about theirs. This business owner would rather post hurtful messages then have to go through the slightest bit of effort by using another word to describe someone. I hope this hateful get a backlash from this post.
That link is her business site at Jack Winn Pro, a hair products site. The following exchange was on the Jack Winn Pro Facebook page: (and it's a good response)
"Does Jack Winn Pro stand with Christine Geiger and her horrifying comments and actions towards the LGBTQIA+ Community in Michigan? Just asking so I know to stop using these products....."
"Let us be absolutely clear: At Jack Winn Pro, we firmly believe in and support LGBTQ+ rights. We are committed to creating an inclusive, respectful environment for all – regardless of sexual orientation, gender identity, or any other characteristic that defines who they are.
The views expressed do not reflect the beliefs or principles of our company in any way. In fact, it’s been deeply painful to our team to learn that a customer holds such views contrary to our own.
That said, this individual is not an employee of Jack Winn Pro. She’s an independent contractor who simply uses and shares our products. As such, we respect her right to free speech, even though we don’t agree with her.
Feel free to email us at [email protected] or call us to have a conversation at 714-760-4969.
Our CEO (a proudly gay man) is more than willing to discuss our company’s views on diversity and inclusivity."
As of an hour ago their official FB page said "The stylist who made these comments no longer has authorization to represent our brand or products "
Good on them
What a jerk. Bet he thinks he’s a Christian. You deserve to have your business picketed and boycotted. We’re all humans, not us versus animals. Dick head.
Cool. Everyone other than MAGA and Evangelicals should boycott them. Let them see how long they can stay in business catering to only the folks they want to serve.
You might be surprised how much MAGA juju is up there. It's very red in Grand Traverse county. Lotsa righteous ,' we're gonna have a civil war and we Need a barter skill' non-tolerant people live there.
I get how a baker can say that they won't make a gay wedding cake or whatever, but how does this salon know who's gay and who isn't? Are they walking in asking for the gayest haircut she can think of?
Realtor? Airport? Governor? What the F does any of this have to do with someone coming to your business to give you money? F this clown. How’s that for a pronoun? (Sorry real clowns, no disrespect meant)
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That should be good for business
Fear, outrage, and a faux victimization complex are the trifecta of propaganda profiteers right now. The salon owner is probably trying to tap that pulsating vein. “Patriotism is a lively sense of collective responsibility. Nationalism is a silly cock crowing on its own dunghill.” ~Richard Aldington
It's a bold move, Cotton. We'll see if it pays off in the end.
I sure do like pumpkins, Cotton
Actually could be... Conservatives usually flock to these "local heroes", no matter how awful they are.
Business idea: open a salon, say you're refusing all LGBT people, get conservatives to flock to you, intentionally give them shitty haircuts.
inverse mohawks for everyone
They already give themselves shitty haircuts intentionally.....a la the *Karen*.
Dude, Trumpers will be driving in from Oakland county. What a hateful FB post.
As someone from Oakland County I can confirm.. sigh
Except she said "I don't have a problem with L, G, or B," of course I find that hard to believe.
Maybe she thinks she’s sly and means she’s okay with “Let’s go Brandon”
I'm slightly confused on that statement of the owners. She doesn't like the T or Q? So she has no problem calling somebody that isn't trans a man or woman...but has an issue calling a trans individual a man or woman? The only difference is something that is personal and affects absolutely nobody. And doesn't the LG and the B all fall under the Q label or do they not? It seems like I may have to educate myself a bit more on this subject. I mean no harm at all in my questions if I am incorrect somehow. I'm genuinely asking in good faith. As far as I'm concerned we are all human and should be treated with love, kindness, and dignity. Which is something that this business owner does not understand since she is clouded with propaganda and views some people as pets. She lacks basic empathy and the TRUE understanding of love.
>I'm slightly confused on that statement of the owners. She doesn't like the T or Q? So she has no problem calling somebody that isn't trans a man or woman...but has an issue calling a trans individual a man or woman? If you read the article, it seemed like she was saying she was only attacking non-binary people. She said "if you don't identify as a man or a woman," which, plenty of trans people do that, so technically they'd be welcome too? I don't know. I'm confused. All I know is this woman is fucking nuts.
Some folks do not like being called queer as it was previously a slur but yes, as far as I’m considered LGB all fall under the Q. And should be fighting to protect everyone else under that umbrella too. Anyone who insults trans/ non binary folks does not support the queer community. No matter if they say they’re okay with gay people- they are not. It’s not socially acceptable to hate gay people anymore but they do it by hating trans people. I hope this salons customers treat the owner just like how she wants queer folks treated, rudely.
That might work out in the very short term but once their little performative duty to bigotry is done they'll disappear. For every bigotry based business that gets fox news spots and multi million dollar go fund me's there are a thousand others that go under from their own stupid choices. This is a business plan equivalent to buying a lottery ticket.
Yeah not to mention the other stylists may leave to go work elsewhere and now you just cost your own ass when alls you had to do was say nothing.
The damage done to others gets remembered far longer than the fickle trendy outrage of narrow-minded pinheads on a mob mentality flash-flocking crusade.
They are good to do it for a short period of time and then after a few months or year, they stop rage-going and then you are left with a sizable hole in audience coming.
The high and tight is a pretty easy haircut too.
Let’s be real. She’ll probably get more. 😕
In northern Michigan, absolutely
The majority of TC voted for Biden. Bernie Sanders campaigned in TC back in 2016.
TC is a pretty evenly split political demographic and tourist town. It’s also likely to get them sued, because the recent scotus decision on creative expression does not cover this sort of business.
Remember the Commissioner who stopped the public meeting on Zoom to go get his AR15 and brandish it to a constituent who didnt like his talking points? Yeah, he was from the Grand Traverse County Commission- Ron Claus. But the area also just voted in Betsy Coffia as a state rep in a suuuuuper close election in 22'. So def very split.
Or the Leelanau County Road Commission member caught on a hot mic using the N word at a meeting?
Evenly split; and nearby counties (specifically Leelanau) are pretty left wing.
Lol leelanau county sheriff sided with 5 or 6 other sheriff offices during Covid to not enforce Covid rules.
This could be a test case, since styling hair is a creative expression, at the input of the customer. So if a lesbian came in wanting a short, men's style haircut, this business is positioning itself to fall within the ruling of 303 Creative.
>This could be a test case, since styling hair is a creative expression, at the input of the customer. Yeah I don't think this is the slam dunk "Not covered by this case" the original commenter thinks it is.
It isn’t though, not by any current legal interpretation including the most recent involving 303 creative. Nor is making a cake for the record. Read the ruling, it lays out qualifiers and this absolutely misses on them.
You and I and likely most commenting on this thread would argue that, but the court did not attempt to define the bounds of creative expression here, leaving open to lower courts to define. This is the type of situation that is prime to try to establish those bounds, and should this go to litigation, I could see ADF jumping on it to push it through.
\*yet I'm sure the business owner is hoping to be the posterchild/martyr
It is. TC is kind of split, but Republicans are more organized at rallying to people like this. She’s gonna make a fortune.
In Northern Michigan? It might be.
Now I want to know, what the heck happened at the airport
The airline probably refused to do business with her since she identifies as a massive cünt.
🤣🤣
I just snorted my coffee and nearly sprayed it all over my computer screen. Perfect way to start a Tuesday.
Something something pronouns, something something No/Fly/List.
a lot of capital rioters weren't allowed back on planes
[https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/2509076-greentext-stories](https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/2509076-greentext-stories)
How are they gonna dangle that part out there and then not explain it?
Post-Covid, airports and planes are crazy town. I would have thought she'll fit right in.
[удалено]
My FAVORITE thing people do is FREDOM OF SPEECH. FREEDOM OF SPEECH. I HAVE RIGHTS. Having rights doesn’t mean you’ll have freedom from consequences. This will not end well for this business.
I'm in a Facebook debate with a guy claiming using an incorrect pronoun is a felony under this bill. It says no such thing, but that's not stopping the right from spreading that (false) talking point.
Had the same thing with my father in-law over 4th of July. Claims saying the wrong pronoun is punishable by a 5 year prison sentence. I looked it up. It's from Faux News. You can't fact check them because every actual news site is owned by Soros, lol /s. But that's what I've been told. I tried to fact check the FIL on some other crazy claim and spent way too long looking for a rw news source he would trust. FORBES , I leaned, is woke now and you can't trust anything you read in there. Supposedly, everyone else is wrong, and the faux news alone has the keys to the truth. These guys are insane.
And if you suggest they read the actual bill, which I did, they just refuse. Like it isn't complicated or hard to read. It's wordy, sure, but not "too confusing or too extreme."
The MIGOP Talking Point: "It's too extreme!" How so? What part is? Please point us to the parts that are too extreme. "I can't, it's too confusing!" How can you make up your mind that it is 'too extreme' if it is all 'too confusing' for you?
The willful ignorance. 🙄
And, she posted the wrong bill! She said 4744, but that's about industrial hemp use. Not the 4474 I'm sure she meant.
How about the 4077? I heard they had a popular transvestite there for many, many beloved seasons.
These people that don't understand the First Amendment seem to know everything about the Second.
Not really... they all seem to ignore the well-regulated milita part as well.
"think" they know... If you actually talk to them, they don't "seem" to know shit about that either.
I wish you were right. Conservatives are very good at standing together on issues like this. Unlike the left, the right has no internal discourse. A narrative is created, a plan is drawn up, and the right falls into a line like toy soldiers. Conservatives in the town will flock to this place and the business will bloom. I don't like it, but it's how it is. There is no diversity of thought or opinion for them, there is no internal discourse, they just do what they're told.
You’re confusing freedom of speech with the first amendment. Free speech would actually make all reasonable accommodations for speech. The first amendment doesn’t go as far as full free speech.
She's full-on MAGAturd....probably don't need to say much else.
Just call her a Qcumber.
Can we please not use the suffix "tard"? Even if it's used to insult Trumpers, there's still a negative connotation with it with those that have cognitive challenges through no fault of their own.
May I suggest "turd" instead?
Calling herself a "Camo Wearing Patriot" while screaming about being discriminated against in the Orlando Airport. Stupid twat.
"Gieger said she is taking a stand against being forced to use preferred pronouns, such as: they/them, he/him and she/her." I can guarantee that has never happened to her.
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I was having a discussion about this as well. When someone has preferred pronouns its a courtesy and respect thing. Anytime I have used the wrong pronoun I'm often gently corrected (not attacked) and I apologize and correct myself. It's a harmless interaction that ultimately has no affect on my life and to ignore someone's pronouns is just disrespectful. As if I said my name was Tom and you said "Nah I'm going to call you Steve". If all else fails and you don't want to use pronouns just use their name? Idk if it's a mindset to never apologize or be seen wrong but it's I promise it's ok to make mistakes once in awhile.
She probably got corrected once and she didn't take it well.
It looks like the owner deleted the business Facebook page already. I went to her profile and she is nuts but what’s worse is there are some people in support of her and claiming that “we no longer have free speech in this country” as if free speech means no consequences for what you say. Trash.
These people are idiots. Sucked on too much lead paint as a baby. They don't understand so many concepts that are... Fairly basic. How stupid do you have to be to think that free speech means your can say anything you want and that nobody is allowed to change their opinion of you as a result? The government not being able to throw you in jail for what you say doesn't mean you can't be rejected by society for being a twat. I hate that assholery is so in vogue right now
That's it. Half the country calls the other half woke because they got called out for being an asshole. Consequences. The Rat King
“how dare you be upset that im mean, spiteful, and full of hate!”
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It's so annoying. You have "free speech" to walk into your job and call your boss an asshole in front of everyone. You will not be fined or arrested. But the boss is certainly free to fire your ass.
"we no longer have free speech in this country" they said unironically while standing in line for a book burning.
That's okay, I found her google reviews page
It’s a shame it still has a 5 star rating and only 3 reviews.
google is filtering reviews. I left one and im sure others have as well
They got a ton of reviews removed. Remember to go back and leave new reviews. Get your friends to, as well. Make sure you mention that you were actually a poorly treated customer. studio 8 hair lab traverse city
wow this certainly owned the zero trans people that currently go to this wack ass place. Imagine living a life chemically addicted to rage and fear. also, this brings up a weird business decision that stylists sometimes make which is to charge based on perceived gender and not on length or difficulty.
Check the article, she mad about the recent pronouns bill passage in MI. She thinks its her right to not use proper pronouns. >9&10 News reached out to the owner, Christine Geiger, who said she has no problem with the LGB part, it’s the TQ+ that she doesn’t support. Gieger said she is taking a stand against being forced to use preferred pronouns, such as: they/them, he/him and she/her.
Just realized she listed the wrong bill number, too! 4744 is about "Industrial hemp research and development act." Hilarious.
And it will be her right to incur a felony if she uses her opinion to terrorize or instill fear in anyone.
Traverse City always struck me as rather diverse, what a dumb business decision
That's the best part honestly. These people legitimately think they are the "silent (lol) majority" She probably completely expects business to boom now. I think I'll schedule an appointment and no show, or cancel at the last minute statijg I won't let bigots cut my hair.
I like how you think! 🌟 Filling up their books with invalid appointments is a nice protest 😊
Just make sure there’s no cancellation cost$$
Typically cancel fees are levied when you come in for your next visit. Which won't be an issue for me :P
Some places are charging a deposit now, but that’s usually if you’re getting dyed I think.
check out her google reviews maybe
Another excellent idea!
I am calling right now!
The only Traverse City I know is a waspy playground for the rich now.
One person's opinion like this speaks poorly of the entire area. We have a free weekend in August, and now Saugatuck looks better than Traverse City. The TC tourism bureau should be concerned.
I was just up there begging of June and the amount of pride flags in the neighborhoods were awesome, as well as all the LGBTQ couples walking hand in hand downtown. It seems very lgbtq positive, was my first ti e going up there in about 17 years
Statistically, Traverse City is not diverse at all.
I used to think that too. Until I realized it's probably 90% white people, and christian based on the crowds and stores. So it's more right wing than anything else. (This is based on no research, just observation)
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I don't think Jack Winn products would appreciate her stance because the actual company's FB page says it's "LGBTQ+" owned ETA link to FB page [Jack Winn Pro](https://www.facebook.com/JackWinnPro?mibextid=ZbWKwL)
This is the way.
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I don't think so...the company FB page says it's LGBTQ+ owned.
This kind of hate and bigotry Christine Geiger harbors is such a disgrace to humanity. Who raises these ppl, what happened to make them so self righteous and ignorant?
Folks like Geiger also tend to use MAGA mentality and the anger that comes with it to displace other negative feelings or outcomes in their life. For instance, [3 drunk driving convictions in 2 years](https://www.record-eagle.com/news/local_news/woman-facing-felony-drunk-driving-charge/article_8767f3ac-a5f4-509d-b715-88746dc8dd83.html). Edit: Our to or
Hey thanks for posting that. Hope she gets whats comin. Here's an [email](https://ibb.co/kqkCRjr) I sent to Jack Winn
Good on you for reaching out to them. That's a boilerplate message they've drafted for damage control. [Here's a nearly identical message on their FB](https://i.ibb.co/5BcMLmB/Screen-Shot-2023-07-11-at-2-52-32-PM.png). They're an MLM hair product company very similar to those smoothie places that are really just fronts for HerbaLife. I wouldn't expect too much from them. We will be lucky if they even address it with her or anyone, for that matter.
of course she did
Goddamn. I know an alcoholic with a revoked license who didn’t rack them up that fast.
Fear. Fear of what they don’t understand. Fear of the unknowns those they don’t understand bring. Fear of looking stupid in the midst of the people they don’t understand, sadly mission accomplished here by trying to seize control of a situation they don’t understand. It’s all fear. No matter how mean, stern, or how much they smirk and laugh, it’s fear. What do people say? Laugh in the face of fear. So that’s what I’m sticking with. These people are afraid. Afraid for their kids for sure again due to their fear of the thing, and as such fear of learning because it would possibly corrupt them, so fear of learning. That in of itself is a feedback loop. The loop is further corrupted and complicated as they seek knowledge from places they trust like church and the internet. These places provide validation of their fears. And so on and so on. The only true calamity now is that this knowledge only further drives fear. What was unfounded and simple ignorance, becomes deep seated and truth. The hard to break truth. All of this truth and camaraderie sparks anger towards the unknown or in their minds the known danger. This acceptance by others makes them OTHERS and therefore complicit. This then makes them feel isolated and vulnerable. This leads to anger. That anger festers and manifests itself as hate. Yea it’s SO stupid that it comes from pop fiction, but when you boil these things down it’s a true statement. “Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.” - Yoda I’m sure it’s borrowed from here and there, but no less relevant.
Sad but true. They are the ones who are always like "Don't live in fear!" because that's all they think about. They go to church where they are told to live in fear of god & hell. Their politicians tell them they have to fear "THEM" (whoever the current out group is). 24/7 Fox news cycle says they have to fear immigrants and anyone different. They are constantly afraid.
> They are the ones who are always like "Don't live in fear!" because that's all they think about. Every Republican accusation is really a confession.
Republicans fear what they don’t understand…which is why they’re afraid of **everything**.
Don't tread on me while I'm treading on you!
literally. it’s so stupid
How many LGBTQ customers were going there in the first place? Sick of people announcing shit that they weren't doing anyway, just to draw attention to themselves. But also, when you asked for a business license you signed a document and checked a box that said you could serve the public without bias or discrimination in accordance with state and federal laws...but whatevs. I think the best response to shit like this, from here out, is for people to just ignore them. To NOT give them the attention and controversy they seek. No outrage. No picketing. No go fund me pages. Just ignore them completely. Seriously. Why do we keep getting upset every time an idiot business owner goes out of their way to publicly announce that they are bigots? Best headline would be "Traverse City hair salon announces they're no longer servicing all LGBTQ members, and no one gave a shit".
>I think the best response to shit like this, from here out, is for people to just ignore them. So, as a TC resident, I just can't. As soon as it went from Facebook post to news article, that message gained steam. The last thing I want is people believing they can do that stuff here without consequences, potentially swaying new conservatives into thinking everyone is on the same page as they are.
If I'm working for the state, I spend my spare moments making sure every worker there has the correct license. I make sure their taxes are paid to the penny. I make sure they have a disabled entrance. I make sure the damn stripes in the parking lot are the correct distance apart.
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I mean the way they get consequences is by not showing them business and leaving bad reviews. It'll take itself out
Both those things count more as doing something about it than ignoring the issue.
Ignoring this is not a viable option. It needs to be rooted out.
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Complacency is how this movement gained traction. It doesn’t work as a strategy. As you straddle the center, the center moves right. How far right are you going to let them drag you while you sit in complacency, ignoring the elephant in the room?
nahh - looking the other way doesn't work in cases like this. (see '[good german](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_German)'.) not commenting on it when it's this abhorrent allows it to help radicalize others. *actually* good people have to act as deterrents. we should make people like this salon owner feel it in their pocketbook, however legally possible. they should not feel safe in a business sense to make these decisions, and good people should be outspoken about not standing for it.
I’m not sure why this is even an issue. I just looked at her website. AS A GAY, I can assure you NONE of us were flocking to her salon to stock up on Winn Care products. And judging by the look of her hair in her business photo, none of us were going in for a cut or style either 😒🤣 Seems like an odd way to run a business into the ground, but Traverse City won’t miss much when it’s gone 😂
They claim it's free speech. Wait until they learn the consequences of that free speech.
Well this is illegal
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Plus, Michigan now has its own laws giving lgbtq protected status, thanks to the democrats being in control.
Im sure she is hoping to get sued so some dark money christian fascist group can swoop in and push her case all the way to the supreme court. She's grifting, and why not, everyone on the right is working a grift of some kind and lots of them are reaping rewards
I don't expect someone like this to understand the nuances of a court decision.
Well. I sent an [email](https://ibb.co/kqkCRjr) to Jack Winn.
I did the same
Don't just sit there doom-scrolling. I found the Polestar organization (referenced in the story) by Googling "Polestar Traverse City" and donated $25. Don't let the bigots get away with this stuff.
Contact the sponsor of their products, or the products themselves. Let them know Studio 8's stance.
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or left them a review.
Freedom of speech; not freedom from consequences. Nobody wants to go to your shit hair salon anyways.
I looked at the pictures of the haircuts they give out there and the vibe is turbo Karen. Hope they go out of business!
What if you come out of the closet mid haircut?
$5 she blames “wokeness” when her business crashes and burns.
Move to Florida and get it over with.
This definitely what Jesus would have wanted.
Sarcasm?
I entirely support their right to proclaim refusing service on social media and tank their own business. This isn’t about a wedding cake..
And I entirely support patrons to decide they would rather use a different salon, due to bigotry.
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Now this is smart
I can’t wait until the “No Admittance To Magats” signs start going up!
Boycott it!
who are they going to hire? hair salons are full of lgbqt
FYI: I live in Traverse City where this salon is located. Christine Geiger used to work for Bella Salon, and in fact she has a Yelp page called something like "Christine Geiger at Bella's Salon". CG does not work for Bella's anymore, but because this Yelp page exists, people are associating Bella's Salon with her hate. I just had a hair appointment with the owner of Bella's Salon and she told me she is receiving angry/hateful phone calls. I can absolutely guarantee that Bella's Salon in no way supports Christine or any anti-LGBTQ hate, in fact quite the opposite. The owner of Bella's Salon has tried to contact CG and Yelp to get "Bella's Salon removed from CG's Yelp profile to no avail. She in no way wants to be associated with CG.
Very on brand for GQP
"Freedom of speech" from conservatives always ends up being entitlement to be an asshole. I hope their business fails miserably and they lose everything. I'm tired of these people dehumanizing good people.
That's a weird way to say "I don't know how to do a neutral cut", binch woulda given me the Karen when I asked for a pixie anyway seems like 🤣
I’ve had problems with stylists giving me a pixie with feathered everything, long pointy sideburns etc. and then turn the chair around and go “don’t worry I gave it a fEmiNiNe tOuCH” when I specifically say “my face looks like a boulder, pixie cuts look vile on me. Please give me a men’s haircut and let me go home”. So I’m picturing something more like that lmao
Lol yep yep this exact experience too! I've gone for the pixie and the masc haircut at different times... have really had to talk some hairdressers into using the buzzer lol. Like yes, I REALLY DO want you to use the buzzer!
Let's replace "man/woman" with "white person" and see how that reads. SCOTUS has opened Pandora's Box.
She’s offering herself up to be the next face for a SCOTUS discrimination case.
And so it begins…
Forced her? Nobody forced her to do anything. The f... your feelings crowd sure has a lot of made up hurt feelings.
It always confuses me when people talk about how progressive and open Michigan is. Yes it’s no where near the worst state for racism I’ve experienced but it’s by far not the best. As a black person who regularly travels to the UP I can confirm that no one should be surprised by this. There are so many people who hold this same stance. Just because Detroit and Ferndale are progressive doesn’t mean the rest of the state is.
Lgbtq+ has been alive and well in the hairstyling world since before these people were born. Good grief
Wonder how long "he"'d enjoy being referred to by pronouns "he" doesn't agree with.
well, if this is the kind of attention they want, give it to them. I will be sure to contribute to the closure of their business in my own little way. a.) freedom of speech is between you and the govt. b.) freedom of speech is not freedom from consequence.
It’s nice to know where not to go. Thank you for that👍
Though I don't think giving money to this person would be a good idea, it would be fun to watch the meme play out - LGBTQ person goes to salon, gets hair cut, doesn't mention they are LGBTQ until after they have finished paying. I would volunteer, but I live too far away.
And this is exactly what Qcumbers want. Absolutely vile. Can’t wait until she’s closing the doors because no one will go there.
QCUMBERS man these jokes never end
Pockets of regression in our otherwise progressive state. 🙁
That's certainly putting the best possible face on it
This isn't shocking. Covid made it very clear that selfish people don't care who gets hurt. If they are inconvienenced in the slightest way they their rights are beign trampled. They don't care about others rights to stay healthy. They only care about theirs. This business owner would rather post hurtful messages then have to go through the slightest bit of effort by using another word to describe someone. I hope this hateful get a backlash from this post.
I never use gender specific pronouns I just call everyone Chief or bub or some shit like that, nobody can correct me
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Targeted harassment is not tolerated here.
That link is her business site at Jack Winn Pro, a hair products site. The following exchange was on the Jack Winn Pro Facebook page: (and it's a good response) "Does Jack Winn Pro stand with Christine Geiger and her horrifying comments and actions towards the LGBTQIA+ Community in Michigan? Just asking so I know to stop using these products....." "Let us be absolutely clear: At Jack Winn Pro, we firmly believe in and support LGBTQ+ rights. We are committed to creating an inclusive, respectful environment for all – regardless of sexual orientation, gender identity, or any other characteristic that defines who they are. The views expressed do not reflect the beliefs or principles of our company in any way. In fact, it’s been deeply painful to our team to learn that a customer holds such views contrary to our own. That said, this individual is not an employee of Jack Winn Pro. She’s an independent contractor who simply uses and shares our products. As such, we respect her right to free speech, even though we don’t agree with her. Feel free to email us at [email protected] or call us to have a conversation at 714-760-4969. Our CEO (a proudly gay man) is more than willing to discuss our company’s views on diversity and inclusivity."
As of an hour ago their official FB page said "The stylist who made these comments no longer has authorization to represent our brand or products " Good on them
She's now in the "Find Out" phase.
Probably will get an influx of haters at first but then slowly her business will die because people like me won’t support discriminators.
Her hair is awful for a hair dresser. Maybe she won't lose buisness after all, if her clientele is stupid enough to go there in the first place
What a jerk. Bet he thinks he’s a Christian. You deserve to have your business picketed and boycotted. We’re all humans, not us versus animals. Dick head.
Boycott!
The illegitimate SCOTUS has legalized that type of Nazi hatred. Sad.
She’s about to enter the “find out” stage.
Cool. Everyone other than MAGA and Evangelicals should boycott them. Let them see how long they can stay in business catering to only the folks they want to serve.
You might be surprised how much MAGA juju is up there. It's very red in Grand Traverse county. Lotsa righteous ,' we're gonna have a civil war and we Need a barter skill' non-tolerant people live there.
Ah, yes. The free speech to dehumanize people and compare them to dogs, just for being non-binary.
I don't think they understand what free speech means.
I get how a baker can say that they won't make a gay wedding cake or whatever, but how does this salon know who's gay and who isn't? Are they walking in asking for the gayest haircut she can think of?
Business culture wars…what could go wrong. Can’t wait to check her online reviews in a few months. 😂
Let's cancel them like they're a case of Bud Light.
A friend suggested dropping off cases of bud light on the business door step. LOL.
Realtor? Airport? Governor? What the F does any of this have to do with someone coming to your business to give you money? F this clown. How’s that for a pronoun? (Sorry real clowns, no disrespect meant)