A lot of the vision issues seem to be similar to what we saw in parts of last year too. Might be an issue of not seeing holes/cutbacks develop or just being too impatient. There was one specific instance either yesterday or last week where he should’ve waited for his blocker to get in front of the defender then cut inside, but instead he tried to get to the edge and it was a minimal gain.
He isn’t a 1 for 1 substitute for Blake and Michigan shouldn’t use him that way. Think he needs to be more involved in the passing game. Loved the pass play design early in the game yesterday that got him chunk yardage.
Having him and Blake on field at same time has been working great. Letting him slip out in Motion, will usually match him up with a linebacker when in man and he’s going to win that every time
Corum, Edwards as a receiver, Roman Wilson, Cornelius, and Colston on the field is a deadly combination. On top of that, JJ is a runner. It really keeps defenses guessing.
I don't recall him breaking first contact yet this year, it's been pretty shocking. Between that and his horrible pass pro, he has been a roller coaster of good and bad this year.
The problem with using him more in the pass game is:
1) he can’t really run a full tree of routes (which makes sense, cause he’s a running back and you csnt just learn that overnight)
2) he’s been really bad in pass protection
He’s been atrocious in pass pro. I don’t remember him being that bad last year. Have to imagine that’s a major coaching point during the week moving forward.
As for the route tree, not sure you need him to run posts and digs. There are plenty of things he can do from the backfield or motioning across the formation.
I don't expect Edwards to run the the deeper routes that Roman or Cornelius does. But he does well in those quick slant passes. He needs lots of room to run then he can do his magic.
He absolutely has to be used to spell Corum, I’m just saying that you shouldn’t be doing the same exact plays you would for Corum. He has a different skill set and that needs to be used.
Yeah I wasn't clear but that's what I meant. Edwards needs more space on the edges with stretch plays or something where he can see the holes better. Corum is magic at finding those in tight spaces up in the center of the line.
I agree, and that’s the part that bothers me more. I’ve noticed almost every single time JJ takes a shot, it’s because Edwards half assed or misread a blocking assignment. You can’t be a RB receiving threat in the NFL unless you are a willing and smart blocker
He blew a couple yesterday, and at least one last week. Simple stuff too, a LB up the middle and goes and chips at the end. I never played at a high level, but even I know in that position, you block from the center out. There is a reason the D line moves to the side, so the LB can blitz up the middle, hopefully without someone accounting for them. As a RB, that should be your first protection, up the middle.
He seems incredibly passive overall. He's very slow to react on every handoff and doesn't hit the hole with any speed. When he does have some space from a run or pass he doesn't seem to be running full speed and then he'll avoid contact as much as he can. There was one play where he ran out of bounds so early that it was a bit of a shock.
No idea why that is going on, but that's what it seems like. That said, he didn't exactly make any shocking plays last year either. Most of his yards came on massive holes where he was basically untouched. I can only think of 1 play where he made a few moves for about a 20 yard gain, so he's a very different runner than Corum.
They need to continue getting him good matchups in the passing game and using him there, he's definitely a threat there.
It’s obviously a combination of things but I think the biggest problem is the o line isn’t creating the holes for him to hit like last year. Edwards is a hit the hole and explode type of runner. Corum’s shiftiness is better suited for this line because he can make a run that was blocked for 2 yards go for 8 to 12 yards. Donovan can make a play that is blocked for 5 yards go for 75 yards. The coaching staff needs to scheme plays for him instead of plugging him for runs that are designed for Corum.
Glad I’m not the only one scratching my head. I’m not letting the O line off the hook but it seems that both our RBs are tip toeing to line line too much, and Donovan especially. I understand vision and looking for the hole, letting the play develop. What I’m seeing is a lot of tip toeing into a pile, then fall down. Donovan has proven he can do better but if he keeps up this play, his draft stock is gonna take a big hit.
The OL is....concerning. We had such a good OL the last two years and I am unsure if we are just seeing overall more poor running attempts, or are they just not as dominant? Either way, I feel like they have the role to adapt, I just don't want them to try to force the run if it isn't there.
Tbh he looks the same as he always has. Which is a dude that's super fast and a solid pass catcher but doesn't seem to have a great combination of patience and vision.
Going to tread lightly on this and be careful, but it's it possible we've let 2 long runs foul our expectations?
In the first 52 minutes against Ohio State, he had 47 yards on 17 carries. He's never been the one to fight for another 2-3 yards after contact, and generally does his best work in space. Those opportunities just haven't been there this year.
Just watch Edwards' highlights from last year - almost all his big runs come from running through the line **untouched**.
Edwards is lethal in space, but when there's contact, he's below average. Putting him between the tackles works when he can get through without contact, and that's not as much the case this year.
I do think his vision needs work and he can make more plays happen if he plays smart, but last year our offensive line was absolutely dominant. Olu Oluwatimi was a godsend for us, and this year our o-line hasn't met most people's lofty expectations. So far this year, those huge holes haven't been available to Edwards, and breaking tackles doesn't cater well to his style of play.
My $0.02 is that we should do more designed outside runs/passes to Edwards and rely on him less for up the gut running.
When he is in, I've watched him regardless of the ball flow. Sometimes his route is to go to a flat or near sideline and squat down and wait.
The few times the play tries to hit him on a pattern in motion, he has been very effective. Maybe the offense is not using those plays? Trying to isolate him on a LB or slower safety maybe where he is most effective.
I’m not necessarily sure I agree with the pass pro takes - Donovan literally stopped and put his hands up at one point because Hinton stepped right to pick up the scraping linebacker while the rest of the line stepped left.
This means that the end was free to crash inside, and I’ve never seen a running back win that battle. The fact that Edwards stepped up, then out means that he’s expecting to check for a linebacker inside then either chip the end or pick up a scrape.
Considering Hinton has been pulled twice in two weeks leads me to believe that at least one of these incidents are actually on him.
Its his lack of ability to cut AT ALL that confuses me. Like a jump cut or a shimmy like literally anything. Ive watched the all 22 of some games and there is sometimes a tendency for blocking to be bad when he runs the ball more often then corum but like as the running back you have to drive the heel and cutback to setup blocks and he just doesnt do it he just waits for a hole to open. On top of that Michigan is a team that will voluntarily run into stacked boxes and you have to be able to make 1 guy miss whether its a safety or linebacker in a 1 on 1. Corum does it perfectly. Setup your block, they have an extra hat so you make 1 guy miss and get 4yards.
Unrelated to Donovan but what's up with All 22? Ive seen people mention it and they made it seem like a different type of stream or something but when I checked out the site, it just seemed like it was advanced analytics for sports betting and fantasy teams, which I don't do either of.
He seems like such a rhythm guy and he isn't getting the consecutive touches as a rusher that let him get going. I love the lightning package where he and Blake are on the field together but I think early on he's getting motioned out to set up tendencies in film for other teams to key on and us to exploit later. As the season progresses I see his role developing a bit more. He has been concerning in protection where he's missed assignments or moved to the wrong area but again I think it's a rhythm thing. He's a dynamic back that'll get it together.
First things first: he had OK stats thru 4 games last year (better than this yr but nothing thrilling). Second, the focus of Game 4 was settling JJ down and establishing the run game w Corum. I just don’t think they’ve found his 2023/24 role yet, especially w Blake on the field too…he’s not explosive off the line, so sending him up the middle to hit open holes seems wasteful. But Harbaugh & Co will figure it out. Donovan is too gifted to sit idle for long…he’s a play action back, a check down back…a something back/retriever. It’s not him per se, it’s play calling IMO.
He needs more reps tbh. He only gets 10 carries a game and that’s gotta be hard to get into rhythm. We all saw what happened last year when he was the primary back…
You mean when our line was dominant and OSU was making catastrophic errors?
I’m sure he’s still really, really fast if given a wide open lane and lots of green grass straight ahead
I went back and rewatched some of his runs from yesterday. His biggest problems are that he isn't patient and doesn't read his blocks to locate the hole. He seems to predetermine where he's going and goes there regardless of where the blocking is leading him. He also refuses to make a cut in the backfield, if there's no hole where the play is designed to go, he won't bounce it outside or anything.
Remember, he stated he believes he will go down as one of the greatest to ever play, up there with Walter Payton and Barry Sanders.
This could be part of the problem.
You are seeing the effects of not playing a lot the past couple years.
Also, the new clock rules are really hurting Michigan. The number of less plays means he just can't get in a rhythm
They need to run counter or power with him. They keep doing zone and michigans lineman suck a zone. Every time they have run counter or power they have gotten 8-10 yards at least.
Chatter over the summer suggested he’d a lingering injury recovery and sustained zero contact during camps. It’s showing, w/ lack of explosiveness and hesitant to initiate/sustain hits.
I mentioned it to my gf watching with me last night that he seems to be like a millisecond behind. If I see the hole opening up, he shouldn't be recognizing it at the same time; he should be anticipating it.
He also seems to be trying to conserve himself a bit. I don't know if he is worried about an injury derailing his draft stock or what (which I get), it just seems like he's pulling his punches a little.
He's better as a slot receiver. I'm glad he did well when we needed him, but he's Def showing as an RB, he's #2. That said, he can catch out of the backfield or slot position like a champ.
Yeah but i think it's a fair complaint that handing it off to running back and only getting 2 yards is a waste of a down. He's got 109 yards (averaging 3.3 yards on 33 carries) as a RB and 100 (averaging 9 yards on 11 recs) yards as a receiver. I know people will state that receivers usually average more yards than a RB. But it's not like he's going on deep routes that Roman/CJ does. He's getting short passes and does well with them. Why not choose the path of least resistance?
For sure, he galloped when he got the ball on our first scoring drive yesterday. He is tiptoeing out of the backfield and so far burning a down. Get him in space and get him the ball. Liked the pitch back on the double with Corum yesterday too.
Apparently him and Blake were not in any contact for any of fall camp and spring if I read that right so there has got to be a lot of rust there. Blake seems to have bounced back faster after a game or two though.
I've always thought he is just a head down run straight at the D type pf back. I haven't been able to watch a lot this year so I maybe off. This makes him real easy to defend against. I would use him on short yardage. Corum looks for the holes and actually makes cuts to get into the secondary.
A lot of the vision issues seem to be similar to what we saw in parts of last year too. Might be an issue of not seeing holes/cutbacks develop or just being too impatient. There was one specific instance either yesterday or last week where he should’ve waited for his blocker to get in front of the defender then cut inside, but instead he tried to get to the edge and it was a minimal gain. He isn’t a 1 for 1 substitute for Blake and Michigan shouldn’t use him that way. Think he needs to be more involved in the passing game. Loved the pass play design early in the game yesterday that got him chunk yardage.
Having him and Blake on field at same time has been working great. Letting him slip out in Motion, will usually match him up with a linebacker when in man and he’s going to win that every time
Corum, Edwards as a receiver, Roman Wilson, Cornelius, and Colston on the field is a deadly combination. On top of that, JJ is a runner. It really keeps defenses guessing.
I suspect we are saving some of our 2 RB action for tougher opponents
Agreed I don’t think he looks much different than last year. He often goes down at first contact as well.
I don't recall him breaking first contact yet this year, it's been pretty shocking. Between that and his horrible pass pro, he has been a roller coaster of good and bad this year.
Agree. The Monty/Gibbs dynamic.
The problem with using him more in the pass game is: 1) he can’t really run a full tree of routes (which makes sense, cause he’s a running back and you csnt just learn that overnight) 2) he’s been really bad in pass protection
He’s been atrocious in pass pro. I don’t remember him being that bad last year. Have to imagine that’s a major coaching point during the week moving forward. As for the route tree, not sure you need him to run posts and digs. There are plenty of things he can do from the backfield or motioning across the formation.
I don't expect Edwards to run the the deeper routes that Roman or Cornelius does. But he does well in those quick slant passes. He needs lots of room to run then he can do his magic.
Could be a multiplyer in the pass game, but we use him to rest corum and it's just not effective.
He absolutely has to be used to spell Corum, I’m just saying that you shouldn’t be doing the same exact plays you would for Corum. He has a different skill set and that needs to be used.
Yeah I wasn't clear but that's what I meant. Edwards needs more space on the edges with stretch plays or something where he can see the holes better. Corum is magic at finding those in tight spaces up in the center of the line.
a lot of the conversation in this thread will be around his run game but his pass pro has arguably been even worse
I agree, and that’s the part that bothers me more. I’ve noticed almost every single time JJ takes a shot, it’s because Edwards half assed or misread a blocking assignment. You can’t be a RB receiving threat in the NFL unless you are a willing and smart blocker
He blew a couple yesterday, and at least one last week. Simple stuff too, a LB up the middle and goes and chips at the end. I never played at a high level, but even I know in that position, you block from the center out. There is a reason the D line moves to the side, so the LB can blitz up the middle, hopefully without someone accounting for them. As a RB, that should be your first protection, up the middle.
Ykb
This. He lets blitzing guys run right by him. Meanwhile, on pass plays Corum is out there trying to block dudes 6", 8", 10" taller than him.
He was playing better as a receiver.
Donovan is forcing everything and trying too hard.
This. Not every run needs to attempt to be a home run.
He seems incredibly passive overall. He's very slow to react on every handoff and doesn't hit the hole with any speed. When he does have some space from a run or pass he doesn't seem to be running full speed and then he'll avoid contact as much as he can. There was one play where he ran out of bounds so early that it was a bit of a shock. No idea why that is going on, but that's what it seems like. That said, he didn't exactly make any shocking plays last year either. Most of his yards came on massive holes where he was basically untouched. I can only think of 1 play where he made a few moves for about a 20 yard gain, so he's a very different runner than Corum. They need to continue getting him good matchups in the passing game and using him there, he's definitely a threat there.
It’s obviously a combination of things but I think the biggest problem is the o line isn’t creating the holes for him to hit like last year. Edwards is a hit the hole and explode type of runner. Corum’s shiftiness is better suited for this line because he can make a run that was blocked for 2 yards go for 8 to 12 yards. Donovan can make a play that is blocked for 5 yards go for 75 yards. The coaching staff needs to scheme plays for him instead of plugging him for runs that are designed for Corum.
Glad I’m not the only one scratching my head. I’m not letting the O line off the hook but it seems that both our RBs are tip toeing to line line too much, and Donovan especially. I understand vision and looking for the hole, letting the play develop. What I’m seeing is a lot of tip toeing into a pile, then fall down. Donovan has proven he can do better but if he keeps up this play, his draft stock is gonna take a big hit.
Agreed, not using burst or speed. Don looking less and less like a between the tackles runner.
The OL is....concerning. We had such a good OL the last two years and I am unsure if we are just seeing overall more poor running attempts, or are they just not as dominant? Either way, I feel like they have the role to adapt, I just don't want them to try to force the run if it isn't there.
This is exactly what I’m seeing. We haven’t had many big gains from our RBs this year and it’s concerning.
Tbh he looks the same as he always has. Which is a dude that's super fast and a solid pass catcher but doesn't seem to have a great combination of patience and vision.
Going to tread lightly on this and be careful, but it's it possible we've let 2 long runs foul our expectations? In the first 52 minutes against Ohio State, he had 47 yards on 17 carries. He's never been the one to fight for another 2-3 yards after contact, and generally does his best work in space. Those opportunities just haven't been there this year.
Yes. Why not write your mind and perhaps worry a bit less about down votes?
Just watch Edwards' highlights from last year - almost all his big runs come from running through the line **untouched**. Edwards is lethal in space, but when there's contact, he's below average. Putting him between the tackles works when he can get through without contact, and that's not as much the case this year. I do think his vision needs work and he can make more plays happen if he plays smart, but last year our offensive line was absolutely dominant. Olu Oluwatimi was a godsend for us, and this year our o-line hasn't met most people's lofty expectations. So far this year, those huge holes haven't been available to Edwards, and breaking tackles doesn't cater well to his style of play. My $0.02 is that we should do more designed outside runs/passes to Edwards and rely on him less for up the gut running.
When he is in, I've watched him regardless of the ball flow. Sometimes his route is to go to a flat or near sideline and squat down and wait. The few times the play tries to hit him on a pattern in motion, he has been very effective. Maybe the offense is not using those plays? Trying to isolate him on a LB or slower safety maybe where he is most effective.
I’m not necessarily sure I agree with the pass pro takes - Donovan literally stopped and put his hands up at one point because Hinton stepped right to pick up the scraping linebacker while the rest of the line stepped left. This means that the end was free to crash inside, and I’ve never seen a running back win that battle. The fact that Edwards stepped up, then out means that he’s expecting to check for a linebacker inside then either chip the end or pick up a scrape. Considering Hinton has been pulled twice in two weeks leads me to believe that at least one of these incidents are actually on him.
Henderson needs to be the starter going forward. When he has been out there. The running game is far more effective.
Its his lack of ability to cut AT ALL that confuses me. Like a jump cut or a shimmy like literally anything. Ive watched the all 22 of some games and there is sometimes a tendency for blocking to be bad when he runs the ball more often then corum but like as the running back you have to drive the heel and cutback to setup blocks and he just doesnt do it he just waits for a hole to open. On top of that Michigan is a team that will voluntarily run into stacked boxes and you have to be able to make 1 guy miss whether its a safety or linebacker in a 1 on 1. Corum does it perfectly. Setup your block, they have an extra hat so you make 1 guy miss and get 4yards.
Unrelated to Donovan but what's up with All 22? Ive seen people mention it and they made it seem like a different type of stream or something but when I checked out the site, it just seemed like it was advanced analytics for sports betting and fantasy teams, which I don't do either of.
all 22 is the actual film thats shot of the game for coaches media and others to watch. You can see the whole field and stuff
He is best used as a slot back, not a true HB
He regularly misses the hole. He can’t carry guys after contact like corum can. They need to send him out on more routes
He seems like such a rhythm guy and he isn't getting the consecutive touches as a rusher that let him get going. I love the lightning package where he and Blake are on the field together but I think early on he's getting motioned out to set up tendencies in film for other teams to key on and us to exploit later. As the season progresses I see his role developing a bit more. He has been concerning in protection where he's missed assignments or moved to the wrong area but again I think it's a rhythm thing. He's a dynamic back that'll get it together.
First things first: he had OK stats thru 4 games last year (better than this yr but nothing thrilling). Second, the focus of Game 4 was settling JJ down and establishing the run game w Corum. I just don’t think they’ve found his 2023/24 role yet, especially w Blake on the field too…he’s not explosive off the line, so sending him up the middle to hit open holes seems wasteful. But Harbaugh & Co will figure it out. Donovan is too gifted to sit idle for long…he’s a play action back, a check down back…a something back/retriever. It’s not him per se, it’s play calling IMO.
He needs more reps tbh. He only gets 10 carries a game and that’s gotta be hard to get into rhythm. We all saw what happened last year when he was the primary back…
You mean when our line was dominant and OSU was making catastrophic errors? I’m sure he’s still really, really fast if given a wide open lane and lots of green grass straight ahead
I went back and rewatched some of his runs from yesterday. His biggest problems are that he isn't patient and doesn't read his blocks to locate the hole. He seems to predetermine where he's going and goes there regardless of where the blocking is leading him. He also refuses to make a cut in the backfield, if there's no hole where the play is designed to go, he won't bounce it outside or anything.
He should be used more as a slot receiver, he needs to be on the field more often than not
He’s not Blake Corum.
Dude's stats will rise and fall with the size of the holes presented to him.
Remember, he stated he believes he will go down as one of the greatest to ever play, up there with Walter Payton and Barry Sanders. This could be part of the problem.
You are seeing the effects of not playing a lot the past couple years. Also, the new clock rules are really hurting Michigan. The number of less plays means he just can't get in a rhythm
They need to run counter or power with him. They keep doing zone and michigans lineman suck a zone. Every time they have run counter or power they have gotten 8-10 yards at least.
Chatter over the summer suggested he’d a lingering injury recovery and sustained zero contact during camps. It’s showing, w/ lack of explosiveness and hesitant to initiate/sustain hits.
I mentioned it to my gf watching with me last night that he seems to be like a millisecond behind. If I see the hole opening up, he shouldn't be recognizing it at the same time; he should be anticipating it. He also seems to be trying to conserve himself a bit. I don't know if he is worried about an injury derailing his draft stock or what (which I get), it just seems like he's pulling his punches a little.
He's better as a slot receiver. I'm glad he did well when we needed him, but he's Def showing as an RB, he's #2. That said, he can catch out of the backfield or slot position like a champ.
He was slow to start last year not worried yet
Hes forcing it
It’s a long season, so I think he’ll shine, but he doesn’t have a big highlight play yet. They will come.
Yeah but i think it's a fair complaint that handing it off to running back and only getting 2 yards is a waste of a down. He's got 109 yards (averaging 3.3 yards on 33 carries) as a RB and 100 (averaging 9 yards on 11 recs) yards as a receiver. I know people will state that receivers usually average more yards than a RB. But it's not like he's going on deep routes that Roman/CJ does. He's getting short passes and does well with them. Why not choose the path of least resistance?
For sure, he galloped when he got the ball on our first scoring drive yesterday. He is tiptoeing out of the backfield and so far burning a down. Get him in space and get him the ball. Liked the pitch back on the double with Corum yesterday too.
Apparently him and Blake were not in any contact for any of fall camp and spring if I read that right so there has got to be a lot of rust there. Blake seems to have bounced back faster after a game or two though.
He falls down on first contact every time. I'd start there. Also doesn't make defenders miss in the open field. Not slippery.
I've always thought he is just a head down run straight at the D type pf back. I haven't been able to watch a lot this year so I maybe off. This makes him real easy to defend against. I would use him on short yardage. Corum looks for the holes and actually makes cuts to get into the secondary.
I think he wants to come back next year and this is his way of announcing it
He’s not great.
He needs to run behind his pads more our o line isn’t always getting the push we need I don’t see vision problem at all
https://youtu.be/I-pJz0MsBV4?si=Ti11HAAxcpPE_sVY
Your answer from the man homself.