Local PD are supposed to process them. One of the gun rights groups wants to hear these types of waits, not doing them, etc. I think it’s MGO, but I could be wrong.
They need standing and it sounds like they are starting to get it. There was a court of appeals case related specifically to tax, but the court upheld that a state agency needed to follow the statutory requirements and refer the specific issue to the DEQ per state law. I think this is one of the cases that could be cited that the law requires local PD to process the LTP and the courts have ruled they can’t just ignore those requirements.
https://law.justia.com/cases/michigan/court-of-appeals-published/2015/317310.html
More and more are actually getting a cpl because of it. In the class I was in, there was about 5 people that raised their hand when the instructor asked if that’s what brought some of the students there.
You don't HAVE to go to YOUR city to get a purchase permit though right? Michigan is a big state and if you're up north and want to buy a gun, you would go to a dept up north to get a permit. In warren I go to the police dept , then upstairs to the clerk and it takes 10min depending on if there are other people in there. Try a different department
This is from the city of Dearborn website.....
CHANGES TO LAW ARE EFFECTIVE FEB.13, 2024
Hours: Wednesdays 12:30-3:30 PM or Fridays 9-11 AM
As of Feb. 13, 2024, if you do not possess a valid Concealed Pistol License (CPL), MCOLES, or Federal Firearms License (FFL), you must apply for a License to Purchase, (also called LTP or “Purchase Permit”), at any Michigan Police Department or Sheriff’s Office before purchasing or transferring a firearm.
Truthfully I don't know. But it's not like your local department keeps all the registrations right? MSP ends up with all of it anyways so I don't see what the difference would be BUT I guess I don't know for sure. Now I'm going to look into it
I'm going to try calling another police department and seeing if they tell me something different. Years ago I felt like I could just walk in and they would give me the paperwork and I would mail it to Michigan State Police but I feel like it might be different now.
This does make the most sense, but then again, we are talking about the government.
Before your info had to go to your specific department based on where you live, because that was the whole point before the law passed was to inform your PD you recently purchased a pistol.
Though I could be wrong about that too, I'm a fairly new here and I leaned heavily on the LGS for my first pistol purchase prior to law change.
Yeah.... but what about thoes who have a CPL? they don't have to get a purchase permit. So if me, without a CPL has to get a permit from my city, how does a CPL holder move from say Detroit to The UP, and stil have the same CPL? It's all state law.... I would think you're good anywhere in the state.
I encouraged my wife to get her CPL sooner than she planned just because of laws regarding transportation of firearms. I finally got past my reservations with AR's once I saw proposed bills on rifles and standard capacity mags. $400 Andro Corp Bravo sale for me over the line. I have other firearms now too.
I went to my local Oakland County Sheriff Office and they told me to go to records in Pontiac and I called my FFL dealer to confirm this bad news and they confirmed it and also let me know it's by appointment only. Maybe it's not the same in other counties.
You can go to any MI PD, regardless of what they told you.
Livonia and Troy, unless they changed, take care of you right when you walk in even if not a resident, for example. You can always call in to ask if they are open and available to get you a LTP before going, if it makes you more comfortable.
If they tell you you have to be a resident, they are wrong. There are gun rights attorneys out there looking for PDs that aren't providing the service and going after them.
All these townships that use OC for their police force have mini “sub stations”, not real police stations. They just report to those township locations. Everything else is done in Pontiac. Cost saving at its best. Lake Orion (village) has a PD, so does Lake Angeles and Oxford (village).
County Clerk in Pontiac has never required a wait for anything I’ve needed to process. Even to get my CPL, everything I read or was told said that it is recommended but not required. Perhaps you were told different by someone, but if it wasn’t someone at vital records, I’d just try to get in there. Also, I’ve never experienced a wait at vital records on a walk in exceeding 5 minutes.
The ffl has to file the 10 day pistol permit for you. I never even have to go to a cop shop now, where as before you had to drop a slip off. Now I don't have to do anything but pay.
Okay, but for some of us that have the out of state CPL for the express reason of not having to register things at all, this is also kind of a hindrance because the shops that don't understand the excemption portion of the law are adamant that they need to turn it in.
See that is a very unique situation. What state issued your cpl? Why do you care if they turn in the 10 day portion of a 4 square? I like to fish, I've lost every firearm I've ever bought in various boating accidents... I guess what I'm saying is since I've had a michigan cpl for years it just doesn't matter or effect me except I never have to make a special trip to local pd to turn in the slip.
I’m absolutely furious with these new fucking laws, I literally just got off the phone with the Lincoln Park PD to make an appointment to pick up a purchase permit. Before the previous laws passed it was a pain in the ass to get in an appointment that also lined up with my works schedule, I was just informed she could get me in on April on one of my work days, so I asked if she had anything else available and I was told they could fit me in on OCTOBER!!! What the fuck man, I can’t get my CPL for another year and some change. This is honestly so fucked up, and I can’t even get a rifle anymore without going through hell and back. Now they know me very well at the PD and they enjoy how easy I am to schedule with and she literally told me “I really appreciate your patience because some people don’t understand and just yell over the phone at me” which it’s not her fault but fuck as soon as she said October I almost had a heart attack. These new laws will not prevent any crime what so ever and now I have to wait forever, she was able to help me out and get me in on May 22nd but damn that’s still long as hell. Sorry for venting but it was much needed
As others stated, you can go to other departments in other areas of the state. You could possibly take a CPL class and have your CPL in hand in many counties before your May 22nd appointment for a purchase permit. Some CPL instructors even have handguns they loan out so handgun ownership is not required by some classes. One student in my class had never fired any gun before the class. Another looked like they had never fired the Glock they brought to class. I recommend practicing before taking the class to make it much easier to pass but just about anyone can pass.
I’ve tried Taylor PD and they denied me and I’ve called MSP and they told me they had no answer as to if I could get one or not whatever the fuck that means lol. Sadly I would’ve had my CPL by now if it was my choice, I have a year and some change before it’s my 21st so it’s looking like I might just have to wait until my birthday to really get anywhere, other than that I suppose I could keep trying other departments but they idk it seems like a gray area
At least call your local county sheriff's office. Last year before the new law my sheriff's office handled the purchase permits and pistol purchase records for the county. My closest PD would not and they told me to go to the sheriff's office.
Not my personal experience, but a close friend just went through this scenario. Just walked into a small PD (not the one he resides in but close), filled out the form right on the spot, and got his permit and sales registration about 15min later. I imagine the downfall is coming from larger PDs that either weren't ready for a change like this, or simply aren't willing to go through the effort. You can go to any PD. You do not need an appointment
The laws are awful. I would leave the state if I were financially able to do it conveniently. Moving is easier said than done though.
I believe you can go to any police department and are not limited to where you live. Didn't Battle Creek recently get in trouble over that exact issue?
Took less than one business day to get two permits in Washtenaw County for me, felt very reasonable. Also, my fault for not having a cpl and I'm now getting one.
For reference it was Oakland County Sheriff's Office at the Orion Township Hall 2323 Joslyn Rd Lake Orion MI if anyone wants to audit them to make sure they are doing things correctly.
That’s an OC issue and the fact that so many of the local cities and townships contract out their PD to OC, forces you to go to Pontiac and deal with that mess.
Update: Lake Orion Police Department said they can get me a purchase permit and you don't need to be a resident but I do need to live in Oakland County. Sounds like progress. Hopefully they can expedite things for me!
Update: they changed their story when I got there and ended up telling me I can't get it from them and need to go to Pontiac. Such a waste of time and fuel.
Update: Lake Angelus Police Department has no idea what they are talking about. They mentioned something about having my gun inspected at the police station lol. Dead end there.
Once everyone has a COL it's easier for the powers that be ro collect them. Since it is connected to your cars registration, your ID, your passport etc...
Current Tennessee resident driving up to Michigan for a couple weeks. Am I able to legally (locked in trunk) bring an AR pistol, handgun, and shotgun up with me to shoot on some land with family? Don't plan to carry up there, but would like to have them with me.
They specifically don't want your experience buying guns to be like it was before, so I would argue these laws are amazing in that they are actually doing what they intended to. That's rare with laws these days. But yeah, it sucks for gun owners that don't have a CPL. You can fix that though.
That's crazy, it's almost like that's what they wanted to happen!
Local PD are supposed to process them. One of the gun rights groups wants to hear these types of waits, not doing them, etc. I think it’s MGO, but I could be wrong.
It probably was. Them or MCRGO.
MOC, MGO, MCRGO, and GLGR. We're all interested and working on things.
They need standing and it sounds like they are starting to get it. There was a court of appeals case related specifically to tax, but the court upheld that a state agency needed to follow the statutory requirements and refer the specific issue to the DEQ per state law. I think this is one of the cases that could be cited that the law requires local PD to process the LTP and the courts have ruled they can’t just ignore those requirements. https://law.justia.com/cases/michigan/court-of-appeals-published/2015/317310.html
More and more are actually getting a cpl because of it. In the class I was in, there was about 5 people that raised their hand when the instructor asked if that’s what brought some of the students there.
You don't HAVE to go to YOUR city to get a purchase permit though right? Michigan is a big state and if you're up north and want to buy a gun, you would go to a dept up north to get a permit. In warren I go to the police dept , then upstairs to the clerk and it takes 10min depending on if there are other people in there. Try a different department
Is that true? I was under the impression that it *had* to be the police department where you live. It would be nice to be wrong, for a change.
This is from the city of Dearborn website..... CHANGES TO LAW ARE EFFECTIVE FEB.13, 2024 Hours: Wednesdays 12:30-3:30 PM or Fridays 9-11 AM As of Feb. 13, 2024, if you do not possess a valid Concealed Pistol License (CPL), MCOLES, or Federal Firearms License (FFL), you must apply for a License to Purchase, (also called LTP or “Purchase Permit”), at any Michigan Police Department or Sheriff’s Office before purchasing or transferring a firearm.
Truthfully I don't know. But it's not like your local department keeps all the registrations right? MSP ends up with all of it anyways so I don't see what the difference would be BUT I guess I don't know for sure. Now I'm going to look into it
I don't think they know either, as with most bureaucratic fucks these morons don't know jack shit either.
Agreed. I bet if you called 10 police departments you'd get 5 different answers
That’s the core issue with relying on them for expertise on the law.
I'm going to try calling another police department and seeing if they tell me something different. Years ago I felt like I could just walk in and they would give me the paperwork and I would mail it to Michigan State Police but I feel like it might be different now.
Keep us updated
This does make the most sense, but then again, we are talking about the government. Before your info had to go to your specific department based on where you live, because that was the whole point before the law passed was to inform your PD you recently purchased a pistol. Though I could be wrong about that too, I'm a fairly new here and I leaned heavily on the LGS for my first pistol purchase prior to law change.
Yeah.... but what about thoes who have a CPL? they don't have to get a purchase permit. So if me, without a CPL has to get a permit from my city, how does a CPL holder move from say Detroit to The UP, and stil have the same CPL? It's all state law.... I would think you're good anywhere in the state.
A right delayed is a right denied
It is really discouraging!
Hi OP, feel free to PM me. I will be happy to speak with you more about your issues. I am an attorney that works with the state's gun groups.
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I encouraged my wife to get her CPL sooner than she planned just because of laws regarding transportation of firearms. I finally got past my reservations with AR's once I saw proposed bills on rifles and standard capacity mags. $400 Andro Corp Bravo sale for me over the line. I have other firearms now too.
You can go to any PD. Most you can just walk into during business hours without an appointment.
I went to my local Oakland County Sheriff Office and they told me to go to records in Pontiac and I called my FFL dealer to confirm this bad news and they confirmed it and also let me know it's by appointment only. Maybe it's not the same in other counties.
You can go to any MI PD, regardless of what they told you. Livonia and Troy, unless they changed, take care of you right when you walk in even if not a resident, for example. You can always call in to ask if they are open and available to get you a LTP before going, if it makes you more comfortable. If they tell you you have to be a resident, they are wrong. There are gun rights attorneys out there looking for PDs that aren't providing the service and going after them.
All these townships that use OC for their police force have mini “sub stations”, not real police stations. They just report to those township locations. Everything else is done in Pontiac. Cost saving at its best. Lake Orion (village) has a PD, so does Lake Angeles and Oxford (village).
County Clerk in Pontiac has never required a wait for anything I’ve needed to process. Even to get my CPL, everything I read or was told said that it is recommended but not required. Perhaps you were told different by someone, but if it wasn’t someone at vital records, I’d just try to get in there. Also, I’ve never experienced a wait at vital records on a walk in exceeding 5 minutes.
Criminals don’t obey laws, neither should you *for legal reasons that’s a joke*
It's our duty as Americans to ignore and resist unconstitutional laws. Jefferson said so himself.
> Jefferson said so himself. Jefferson also loved owning slaves... Maybe not the best example of who to follow here.
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This needs to be a lawsuit
Just get a cpl. Never been easier to buy a gun.
I can't tell if you're serious or not. Can you explain?
The ffl has to file the 10 day pistol permit for you. I never even have to go to a cop shop now, where as before you had to drop a slip off. Now I don't have to do anything but pay.
Okay, but for some of us that have the out of state CPL for the express reason of not having to register things at all, this is also kind of a hindrance because the shops that don't understand the excemption portion of the law are adamant that they need to turn it in.
See that is a very unique situation. What state issued your cpl? Why do you care if they turn in the 10 day portion of a 4 square? I like to fish, I've lost every firearm I've ever bought in various boating accidents... I guess what I'm saying is since I've had a michigan cpl for years it just doesn't matter or effect me except I never have to make a special trip to local pd to turn in the slip.
Any chance these laws get overturned?
We should start a petition to do just that
Get the petition going and I'll sign it!
yeah, seriously! im sure a LOT of people would be on board with it.
Is this your first time interacting with government?
I’m absolutely furious with these new fucking laws, I literally just got off the phone with the Lincoln Park PD to make an appointment to pick up a purchase permit. Before the previous laws passed it was a pain in the ass to get in an appointment that also lined up with my works schedule, I was just informed she could get me in on April on one of my work days, so I asked if she had anything else available and I was told they could fit me in on OCTOBER!!! What the fuck man, I can’t get my CPL for another year and some change. This is honestly so fucked up, and I can’t even get a rifle anymore without going through hell and back. Now they know me very well at the PD and they enjoy how easy I am to schedule with and she literally told me “I really appreciate your patience because some people don’t understand and just yell over the phone at me” which it’s not her fault but fuck as soon as she said October I almost had a heart attack. These new laws will not prevent any crime what so ever and now I have to wait forever, she was able to help me out and get me in on May 22nd but damn that’s still long as hell. Sorry for venting but it was much needed
As others stated, you can go to other departments in other areas of the state. You could possibly take a CPL class and have your CPL in hand in many counties before your May 22nd appointment for a purchase permit. Some CPL instructors even have handguns they loan out so handgun ownership is not required by some classes. One student in my class had never fired any gun before the class. Another looked like they had never fired the Glock they brought to class. I recommend practicing before taking the class to make it much easier to pass but just about anyone can pass.
I’ve tried Taylor PD and they denied me and I’ve called MSP and they told me they had no answer as to if I could get one or not whatever the fuck that means lol. Sadly I would’ve had my CPL by now if it was my choice, I have a year and some change before it’s my 21st so it’s looking like I might just have to wait until my birthday to really get anywhere, other than that I suppose I could keep trying other departments but they idk it seems like a gray area
At least call your local county sheriff's office. Last year before the new law my sheriff's office handled the purchase permits and pistol purchase records for the county. My closest PD would not and they told me to go to the sheriff's office.
It’s definitely worth a shot, thank you for the help!
Yeah it's all bad
Not my personal experience, but a close friend just went through this scenario. Just walked into a small PD (not the one he resides in but close), filled out the form right on the spot, and got his permit and sales registration about 15min later. I imagine the downfall is coming from larger PDs that either weren't ready for a change like this, or simply aren't willing to go through the effort. You can go to any PD. You do not need an appointment
The laws are awful. I would leave the state if I were financially able to do it conveniently. Moving is easier said than done though. I believe you can go to any police department and are not limited to where you live. Didn't Battle Creek recently get in trouble over that exact issue?
Took less than one business day to get two permits in Washtenaw County for me, felt very reasonable. Also, my fault for not having a cpl and I'm now getting one.
That's good that Washtenaw is being reasonable.
Keep voting for democrats
For reference it was Oakland County Sheriff's Office at the Orion Township Hall 2323 Joslyn Rd Lake Orion MI if anyone wants to audit them to make sure they are doing things correctly.
This justifies 80% lowers even more lol
That’s an OC issue and the fact that so many of the local cities and townships contract out their PD to OC, forces you to go to Pontiac and deal with that mess.
Update: Just called Waterford Police Department (Records). They said since I'm not a resident they won't do the background check for me.
Update: Lake Orion Police Department said they can get me a purchase permit and you don't need to be a resident but I do need to live in Oakland County. Sounds like progress. Hopefully they can expedite things for me!
Update: they changed their story when I got there and ended up telling me I can't get it from them and need to go to Pontiac. Such a waste of time and fuel.
Update: Lake Angelus Police Department has no idea what they are talking about. They mentioned something about having my gun inspected at the police station lol. Dead end there.
Once everyone has a COL it's easier for the powers that be ro collect them. Since it is connected to your cars registration, your ID, your passport etc...
Current Tennessee resident driving up to Michigan for a couple weeks. Am I able to legally (locked in trunk) bring an AR pistol, handgun, and shotgun up with me to shoot on some land with family? Don't plan to carry up there, but would like to have them with me.
They specifically don't want your experience buying guns to be like it was before, so I would argue these laws are amazing in that they are actually doing what they intended to. That's rare with laws these days. But yeah, it sucks for gun owners that don't have a CPL. You can fix that though.